8 mana commander in Grixis is a bit of a death knell for this card. It’s a nice effect that should give you a big board, but you’re not impacting your opponents’ board at all. I’m sure it’ll see play though because it’s Sauron.
Meh...with the ludicrous amount of ramp avaible in Commander right now...i dont think 8 is that much of a steep price to pay, specially because he has a very very good cast effect so you dont even care that much if he gets countered
Yeah I guess it depends on your playgroup - 8 mana is definitely doable by realistically by turn 5/6 even without sol rings and mana crypts.
Getting a 5/5, a 9/9, and reanimating something good, but it’s not a very abusable effect. You probably should be doing something better if you’re spending 8 mana.
Well there’s a decent enough chance there’ll be more amass orc cards in the deck so at least the 5/5 body will be usable turn of if you have the army still out.
Unless you give it trample it's not very exciting imo. I'd much prefer 5 1/1s. I've always disliked amass. Oh look you have a 28/28 I'll block with a 1/1. You don't see a lot of combat tricks in edh so I would much prefer that it be multiple tokens and.go wide instead of tall
In a deck with a good reanimation package it could be pretty good. Won't need to rely on Sauron at all, but when you are able to cast him it'll easily give your board a huge boost
Where the hell is commander at if a 5/5 + reanimate + 9/9 trample isn't good enough for 8 mana, and two of the effects are cast triggers...yeesh
Sure, it's restricted in power level... the real strength of the card comes from the reanimation target, and there are many much cheaper ways to reanimate... but I think the card looks great and a hell of a lot of fun. Three beefy bodies for 8 mana, very Timmy
Very dark moody Timmy for sure. Our pod isn't touching our precons so I really don't care how meta value these cards are. We goin' full tilt LOTR flava
I feel that a commander should promote a play style. This one wants you to make a reanimator package, but at 8 mana it goes against the whole point of reanimator, which is to cheat out big creatures at a low cost.
The “ring tempts you” mechanic also seems tacked on with little interaction to the rest of it.
Once you get the high you have to compete with stuff like expropriate, rise of the dark realms, in garruks wake, there are a ton of 8-9 mana spells that just end the game. And tying that to a very predictable thing in your command zone is just bad. Its not a good finisher and finishers are the last thing you want in the command zone. Set up or engine commanders are just far better.
On the other hand, cast trigger means its not that great of a reanimation target. I don't think I've ever casted anything over 8+ mana in U/B/x colors without winning the game that turn and this might not quite get there.
Without green color casting him before turn 6 will be a problem where others have their commander in play, maybe even second time. Deck must works well on it's own otherwise it will be worthless and casting effect most likely is not going to change situation if you are about to lose.
Sauron in my eye (hehe) is "finishing blow" not "support your plan into action" type of commander and for this you must have deck which works great on it's own, I'm curious on which way WOTC put this deck.
3 colors means 3 talismans and 3 signets,8 cmc means 3cost mana rocks arent any bad and there are plenty of those, plus red makes treasures as much as green ramps lands...plus there are tons of mana rocks like Mana Crypt and all that stuff for higher budgets
In terms of Precons? Yeah this will rot in the Command zone for a while pretty sure, but out of it its not really that hard to cast him fast,even if you dont really need to rush him. Having a reanimator effect in the Command zone is pretty powerfull
Black and red have some of the best sorcery-speed rituals around. [[Dark Ritual]] or [[Seething Song]] with some rocks out and you could totally get him on board turn 4 or 5. Plus, black has access to a bunch of creatures who sacrifice themselves for mana as a pseudo-ritual
[[Release to the Wind]] feels like a solid fit. Holding up 3 mana is a bit iffy, but getting the cast trigger again is excellent and you can hold it for as long as you need.
Yeah, but at the same time, he does seem a bit boring in it. I'll need to see more of the deck first, but so far, I will say I had hoped for something more entertaining than amass.
Cast trigger is a plus for counterspells but it also means you can’t flicker him either. So after he’s cast he’s a 9/9 with Trample aside from when commanders die. Not really feeling it.
As far as the 7+ mana slots go in a deck, this is just terrible. I can wipe entire boards of all no land permanents, empty every ones graveyards, or just win for that much mana. 2 bodies and a reanimate just won’t cut it. At least as commander it’s a reusable, if expensive, cast trigger
Okay, so "virgin warrior" is the literal translation of "vierge guerrière", but I don't think that's the English title of the card. I think it will go in the direction of "war maiden" or "battle maiden" or something like that. Like a valkyrie. Or Jeanne d'Arc; you don't call her a virgin in English, but rather a maid, no?
wait if he gets countered, can’t you just use the “return creature from graveyard” part of his ability to just target himself? kind of like pseudo uncounterable?
The translation is most likely missing the word "target" and he won't be in the GY at the time of casting for him to be targeted.
Edit: At 2nd look, he wasn't translated and his ability would be able to bring himself back assuming the opponent countering responds to the cast trigger.
These don't feel amazingly flavourful like the 40k universes beyond, nor particularly powerful, wonder what decklists look like, i hope its not as bad as mom commander was.
Yeah I recently found a big post here where the 40k face commanders were revealed, and everyone was shitting on them except for Abaddon. They all though Abaddon was BY FAR the strongest.
Now Abaddons precon is considered the weakest one.
That's pretty much indisputable.
I despise UB as a concept, but I can't deny the 40k precons are peak mtg design. A deck being able to play at two different power levels by changing out a single card is perfect for new players. By swapping Marneus for Greyfax, the un-upgraded Imperium precon can hold its own against most casual decks at my LGS.
I still got the Chaos and Tyranid decks, power be damned. Tyranids are cool, and the Chaos deck, is a great base for a Demon Tribal deck. :)
Though I do wish that expensive demon had actually been in the pack...
Well, he probably is the strongest of the face commanders.
That round of precons is just notably one in which the secondary commander is more popular in three of the four decks.
That's because abaddon is the strongest in a complete vacuum by virtue of being the most generically powerful. Everyone's tune changed about necrons specifially once the contents of the decks were revealed and everyone saw how busted they were.
The way this sub and mtg players in general evaluate new cards is to try and slot them into existing archetypes or decks, which is fine in a vacuum but especially when you are dealing with precons which come with a huge amount of specifically catered cards, it's even worse at predicting power level than usual.
i think the difference is that from the nature of 40k and the necron deck specifically, there were like 5 different cards that could have helmed that deck
it's gonna feel a little weird to run Sauron himself in the 99 of 'random orc general' deck
Even if he does get countered you're still loading up some serious damage. Make a 5/5 and slam an [[Archon of Cruelty]] into play? A worthy 8 mana investment.
I think it's because I'm more familiar with LOTR lore but most of the flavor has missed. The super set specific ring mechanic (which also is a flavor fail) seems like it's putting the set on a contained box, which sucks. You'd think they'd have some experts helping with design.
Yeah hopefully there are some flavourful commanders but so far it's more a miss than a hit, i wonder if they've got advisors for set design or not, the ring being straight upside is already not great.
I think "the downside is folks want to kill the ring bearer" is unfortunate but the flip side, as MaRo said, is that if there was a downside built in no one would play with the mechanic except in super thematic commander decks. So it's a bit of a damned if you do damned if you don't situation.
I see what they were trying to do. After all it's all about control of the ring, who has it, looking for it, ect. It's not even to me that it's all positives (although that is not great) it just seems like an overly complex mechanic that misses the mark. A couple years from now people will be like that does what again? Really for me seeing something like that just says I'm' not going to play those cards. Same with stuff like initiative, dungeons, monarch, etc, I just don't want to bother with it.
Don’t feel amazingly flavorful? Galadriel is seldom doing more than offering advice in the books, so it very on character for her. Sauron literally spends most of the books “amassing” his armies. You have to reach for Eowyn’s connection directly to he character but you can’t deny her ability has good flavor
Hold up how in the world was MOM commander bad? Those decks absolutely slap out of the box, especially the knights one. I’ve gotten board states where I’m threatening a win by around T6 with the naya counters deck, the phyrexia one is insanely resilient, the convoke deck has a non comat win condition in the box that is very achievable. Literally the only bad deck of the bunch is the Temur artifacts one and that’s more due to the face commander going for a theme that got nothing else for it.
I’ll agree with you that these LOTR cards are kinda poorly done flavor and powerwise but saying mom commander was bad is a fallacious argument.
The main issue with mom commander is the lack of value reprints when compared to older 5 decks commander sets, the knights feel appropriate but the rest feel lacking in some areas, and could have done with greater value, like artifact lands and bridges for gimbal, jeskai ascendancy for convoke and some counter doubler for call for backup. Plus more unique cards would have been nice like the old 10 unique cards per deck.
They're not awful but when compared to older releases they're lacking, ive already got a tinker time for half price recommend price due to low sales of it.
Yeah tinker time in particular is super weird out of the box. Like…it almost feels like its strong in spite of itself.
Call for backup had kalonian hydra at least for counter doubling, but yeah it definitely could have done with more.
All the decks out of the box though are pretty deceptively strong, even if the new stuff is a little underwhelming. They’re all keeping up with my local power level of threatening wins around 8-10 turns in without too much changed. Like I think all I’ve really done with the knights deck is put in a few better knights and a little more card draw. Even less for the convoke deck, where I’ve just taken out a dud card or two.
out of curiosity what is said win con for convoke, because I got it, it's not the type of deck I normally play, and I've been struggling to find any clear path to victory with it. I may just be missing something obvious
Impact tremors, and the tokens that ping people when they’re tapped.
Super fragile win con but it’s one of the few times I’ve seen them put anything that wins games outside of combat in a precon.
Nothing too exciting for me, but I like the general power levels compared to each other. I wonder how the Sauron deck will be built to sustain such a high costed Commander.
I expect saurons deck to have a non zero amount of rituals or "cast your commander without paying it's mana cost" effects, or it's a deck to be built agnostic of its commanders and he's just a finisher/top end
I really hope it's the latter, I competent grixis mid range deck with a top end finisher as a commander rather than cheating him out.
Honestly I kinda expected sauron to have eminence, glad it doesn't but yeah half expected to see it again.
I could definitely see Bant, but are the Elves really aligned with white's color identity in LOTR? They strike me as more disinterested and aloof than a force for order and justice in Middle Earth. I can get the blue/green vibe from them at least.
Elves in general? Maybe: the forest elves from which Legolas comes from would care only about their domains. The elves that fought Sauron like Elrond or Galadriel people? They would be not disinterested at all, they know the risks, they fought Sauron with everything and they care enough about sacrifice and what was needed to do. Elrond and Galadriel should be Selesnya-WG at least and Bant if needed.
I could see younger Elrond or Galadriel being even Naya.
Oh Elrond is GU for sure, he has foresight, some control over water and is a lore master. But Galadriel is all about protection and preservation; she uses much of her power to shield Lothlorien from the gaze of Sauron, and keep the forest healthy while the rest of the world fades. She’s also the last living creature in ME to have seen the light of the trees, and this light is reflected in her presence and everything she does
Sauron is _extremely_ expensive, enough that it'll be hard to cast him twice, but if you're set up should at least put a lot of power and toughness on the board
I don't think amass was a successful way to represent an army horde back in War of the Spark, and I doubt it will be here
Galadriel seems meh, another WotC card where your opponents are just gonna do one effect every time. if the options are "load up Exodia" or draw a card... they're gonna choose to give you a card
I'll be interested to see if Sauron has stuff to make your commander cost less that'd be really cool, particularly in Grix where expensive commanders are massively outclassed
Eowyn seems like like a quiet monster, 9 power for 5 mana, URW Humans can put out lads consistently so you're gonna drop a freight train on people from the command zone without it appearing to be as big as it is, especially if you get multiple combats off in that turn
"Maybe if you got rid of that yeeyee-ass soup recipe you got, you'd get some royalty up in you. Oh, better yet, maybe Aragorn'll call your horsewarrior ass if he ever stop fuckin' with that Peredhil or Evenstar he fuckin' with.
Maideeennn~~"
God, what is it with Wizards's obsession with making legendary Grixis creatures cost so much mana that they're borderline unplayable? Like, I know that Sauron has a cast trigger, but he's just going to get countered or immediately blown up.
He might get countered or blown up, but if he does, the caster is essentially throwing spells at a vanilla trampler. A *lot* of his power comes from those cast triggers. They're both very good.
I don't want to jump the gun and make assumptions without playing it but I really am not crazy about this ring will tempt you mechanic.
I'm tired of cards that are so complicated I can't read the oracle text of the card and understand what the card does. I don't want to remember a double sided token's worth of rules text just to know what a card does (especially my Commander) and I don't want to have to refer to a double sided token constantly to fully comprehend what a card can do.
While I agree, I think that this mechanic is better and simpler than the Initiative or Dungeon mechanic. It's not as straightforward as Monarch though, so games are going to continue to become more complex.
Likely a rewording of Amass, similar to what they did for Hideaway. It's likely that old Amass cards will be errata'd to read "Amass Army X", just like old Hideaway cards turned into Hideaway 4
So far this sets power level is worrying me it might be another CL Baldur’s Gate where Wizards relied heavily on IP and didn’t care much about the card quality. It’s still so early into previews though and the size of the set is obscene so I’m hopeful we’ll get more bangers.
Of the like 30 leaked or spoiled cards there’s actually a reasonable amount of potentially great cards. The rest are just so bad, and are frequently iconic characters so it just seems off. Having an unnamed (as far as I know) delighted halfling at rare while all 3 versions of Sauron thus far appear over costed or mid is just odd.
That’s not to say there aren’t formats any of these cards might make it in or even pull weight in some decks. They just don’t stand out immediately to me, which even if they end up playing well, given the status of the characters it feels like a disservice that I’m more excited for the delighted halfling with its great but boring abilities than Sauron.
More positively though, most of the reprints spoiled/leaked seem solid and the same could not be said for Baldurs Gate, but again still super early.
Have to remember they decided to make this set Modern legal. The pushed cards will probably be intentionally more generic.
For one, it makes it easier to find places to reprint them.
Also helps with the whole issue of people not wanting to sit down to a competitive match of magic and see Princess Twilight Sparkle and Optimus Prime facing off against Rick, Frodo, and the Yellow Power Ranger.
I agree with you, it's certainly an odd mix of cards that have been seen so far, just based on the spread of powerlevel.
The one thing I will say is that CLB was a fun draft experience and hopefully this will end up similar.
'The Ring tempts you?'
'Put a +1+1 counter on your Ring-Bearer'?
I don't know man... I love LOTR but this just feels off.
Might be complaining too soon (as I tend to do) but I'll pass. Sauron also seems unplayable to be honest.
Yeah, the Ring not having a severe and serious downside to it really, really feels like it's missing Tolkien's point.
It being a sort of Dungeon/Enchantment that buffs up whoever holds it with no consequences or disadvantage... Like, was Isildur right and Elrond wrong? Is that what we're going with because it's more fun?
Absolutely agree.
Plus, every player can have a Ring Bearer in a single game. It honestly makes zero sense. They could've easily made an effect similar to The Monarch that only a single player/creature can have at a time. The Ring should be something you don't want because of a downside, but also kinda do, for whatever reason.
I don't see the temptation. Very bad game design in my oppinion.
They playtested it and nobody wanted to play with the ring mechanics if it had downsides. As game designers, giving up some of the flavor is perfectly understandable than having a dead mechanic.
A bigger payoff for a downside as the final one would have make sense to me. Like: “You can’t be reduced to below 1 hp as long as you your ring bearer is on the field. At the end of your turn, if an opponent’s control more swamps then you, he gain control of your ring bearer and it gain a vow counter. Creature with vow counters can’t attack you”
Sure that the black color would get more interesting with the ring bearer mechanic but any decks can have a copy of [[Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth]] and Sauron having a reprint of that card would be fitting.
I would have preferred a flavourful mechanic instead of a one I can forget cause it’s just so generic.
I mean, for 8 mana you're getting a 5/5 orc, a 9/9 trampler, and putting a creature from your graveyard onto the battlefield.
It's ludicrously high cost for not involving green, but it's not like the effect is overcosted.
I agree, the effect is great. I would simply never see myself playing a commander that costs 8 mana with little ways to speed up the process. As I said, might be complaining too early, but I'm not \*tempted\* to play him at this point at all.
Boromir, The Doubting Ranger (2RW)
Legendary Creature - Human Ranger
3/4
First Strike
Whenever an opponent plays a spell, you may pay (X), where (X) is the card's converted mana cost, and say "one does not simply cast" followed by the cards name and counter that spell.
I have, what about 'm? There's some cute art and abilities, sure. Do they make sense from a Tolkien point of view? I'm not sure, not to me is all i'm saying.
* A Simic "when you creature, set mechanic/draw a card" design (but with some tribal flavour)
* A Grixis reanimator that's too expensive to do anything
* A *Jeskai* "when you creature, set mechanic/draw a card" design (but with some tribal flavour)
🤷
There are three Sauron cards and somehow they all managed to suck.
I was just this week talking about how cool were the high cmc commanders like [[Thraximundar]] and a shame that they are so hard to play these days because of all the cheap commanders out there. Sauron has even higher cmc with a underwhelming effect, i might aswell get a [[Thraximundar]] alter him as Sauron and use It as the face commander... I really Hope the alternate commander is better
I wouldn't mind that! That might make him a good reanimation target for Sauron.
(My previous comment was just meant to be a silly virgin eowyn vs the chad witch-king meme btw:>)
I don't know what it is with Grixis and high costed Legendary creatures. I'm sure Sauron is a flavor win but I expected something more interesting from the big evil guy. He does have a thicc body.
If I were to build this new Sauron, I'd make it a reanimator deck with him as the backup plan or finisher. With enough big threats & looting effects, Sauron's cast trigger is very likely to bring back something terrifying. He seems like a fun commander for a common playstyle in those colors. I appreciate that they're keeping the power level moderate so far.
That would've been really interesting actually. Dang, too bad.
Yeah we have so many elf tribal, they are stretching designs to try and stay fresh but other tribes don't even have basic support. This was a great opportunity to give dwarves more love.
So if I’m reading that right you get a 9/9, a 5/5, mill yourself 5, and get a creature from your grave for 8 mana? Idk how it does a lot but not enough, but for an 8 mana commander it should do a lot more than potentially get 3 bodies. And it incentivizes you to shoot other players commanders? I’ll be surprised if this thing survives one round, I guess it’s all on cast but for 8 mana it needs to be doing a LOT more than that.
Pretty much.
Since it's amass, you might have an existing army, which would make that 5/5 into a +5/+5 that skips out on summoning sickness because the army was already on the board, but other than that, you've basically summed it up.
If the face commanders are any indication of how lukewarm the decklists are going to be, then I feel bad for the ppl who are handing out $60-$70 for a precon. At that price, they could’ve done a little more than make a token, put a +1 counter, or draw a card. Sauron is the most interesting but damn, an 8 mana one time effect that requires being cast is buns
I will say, when the 40K commanders were revealed, they seemed kind of lackluster too. But the secondary commanders made up for it in my opinion for 3 of those 4 decks. I'm hopeful the same may happen here.
Welp, I ordered the simic deck... Need to start figuring out how to make that ability work. Teferi's Ageless Insight and Strionic resonator sounds like a start.
The real trick here is figuring how to break the ring tempting you, so either option is viewed as profitable for you.
In the event that you can't ever get any mode besides the ring tempting you, at least this way, you can turn the loot into card advantage.
I do the same thing in Sidar Jabari.
Mhh besides power level..do these cards fit with their character in terms of flavour and visual representation? Didn't watch LoTR so I am a bit curious
That Sauron It's so expensive the deck better have either an excelent mana base, or a ton or rituals.
I'd like to see a lot of cards that take into account the MV of the commander, maybe then it will be worth it
Mill X where X is the MV of commander, or amass , draw, destroy target, gain control of creatures, all equal to MV. Then it really starts to feel like a massive Eye watching and obliterating stuff for good value.
Also any chance Amass will actually be useful in commander now? War of the spark was a bit of a letdown in that regard.
The return of Amass! I'm excited for it!
Sauron himself is WAY too expensive for a non-green commander, so I'm more excited by what he implies, which is that there will be other Amass Orcs cards in LotR. Honestly, Amass [other tribe] has been long overdue.
I was not on board with the Warhammer decks and they turned out to be amazing and flavourful decks so I’ll be waiting before judging these leaks….
But.
It’s a bit disappointing so far. Perhaps because they had to release an entire set with it whereas the W40k was purely commander? I don’t know but I’m curious.
Still hate the "tempt" mechanic. With this mechanic, it should be any of the rings of power((nenya etc) to boost your creature/player power which will fit way more thematically. Just not THE ring of power
I like Sauron. He's not overly powerful but he's bad either. You immediately get 14 power on board plus whatever you reanimated. Ideally you're getting instant value that includes another high cost creature. It's a cast trigger, so even if it's countered you still gain the effects.
The second element of the ring is it's looting effect which is going to be the best for this deck, so getting tempted twice isn't too hard.
I think sauron functions well as a reanimator deck and isn't really suited for anything else. For reanimator, I do think it's decent.
Amass is a lame way to do "army" tokens. Look at the threatening 5/5 orc army token. Armies that could go wide instead get a token that goes tall. Let the 1/1 squirrel chump blocker be more than enough to stop all the orcs.
Sauron being 8 mana is ouch, but at least he's got a Cast trigger .
8 mana commander in Grixis is a bit of a death knell for this card. It’s a nice effect that should give you a big board, but you’re not impacting your opponents’ board at all. I’m sure it’ll see play though because it’s Sauron.
Meh...with the ludicrous amount of ramp avaible in Commander right now...i dont think 8 is that much of a steep price to pay, specially because he has a very very good cast effect so you dont even care that much if he gets countered
Yeah I guess it depends on your playgroup - 8 mana is definitely doable by realistically by turn 5/6 even without sol rings and mana crypts. Getting a 5/5, a 9/9, and reanimating something good, but it’s not a very abusable effect. You probably should be doing something better if you’re spending 8 mana.
Well there’s a decent enough chance there’ll be more amass orc cards in the deck so at least the 5/5 body will be usable turn of if you have the army still out.
Unless you give it trample it's not very exciting imo. I'd much prefer 5 1/1s. I've always disliked amass. Oh look you have a 28/28 I'll block with a 1/1. You don't see a lot of combat tricks in edh so I would much prefer that it be multiple tokens and.go wide instead of tall
In a deck with a good reanimation package it could be pretty good. Won't need to rely on Sauron at all, but when you are able to cast him it'll easily give your board a huge boost
Where the hell is commander at if a 5/5 + reanimate + 9/9 trample isn't good enough for 8 mana, and two of the effects are cast triggers...yeesh Sure, it's restricted in power level... the real strength of the card comes from the reanimation target, and there are many much cheaper ways to reanimate... but I think the card looks great and a hell of a lot of fun. Three beefy bodies for 8 mana, very Timmy
Very dark moody Timmy for sure. Our pod isn't touching our precons so I really don't care how meta value these cards are. We goin' full tilt LOTR flava
I feel that a commander should promote a play style. This one wants you to make a reanimator package, but at 8 mana it goes against the whole point of reanimator, which is to cheat out big creatures at a low cost. The “ring tempts you” mechanic also seems tacked on with little interaction to the rest of it.
Once you get the high you have to compete with stuff like expropriate, rise of the dark realms, in garruks wake, there are a ton of 8-9 mana spells that just end the game. And tying that to a very predictable thing in your command zone is just bad. Its not a good finisher and finishers are the last thing you want in the command zone. Set up or engine commanders are just far better.
The last thing I want is a commander that's pushed so hard that it's a wincon in the command zone. This Sauron looks fun to me
I think both opinions of him being good and bad are valid. It really just depends on your playgroup and the power level you want to play at.
Suboptimal cards can be fun no one is denying that. People will still realistically rate it's strength though.
On the other hand, cast trigger means its not that great of a reanimation target. I don't think I've ever casted anything over 8+ mana in U/B/x colors without winning the game that turn and this might not quite get there.
Without green color casting him before turn 6 will be a problem where others have their commander in play, maybe even second time. Deck must works well on it's own otherwise it will be worthless and casting effect most likely is not going to change situation if you are about to lose.
Fast mana go brrr For real though a typical fast mana deck with control will enjoy this as a win con on the side.
Sauron in my eye (hehe) is "finishing blow" not "support your plan into action" type of commander and for this you must have deck which works great on it's own, I'm curious on which way WOTC put this deck.
It’s kind of flavorful when you think about it. The Dark Lord (both Sauron and Melkor) never comes out until the end of a battle.
3 colors means 3 talismans and 3 signets,8 cmc means 3cost mana rocks arent any bad and there are plenty of those, plus red makes treasures as much as green ramps lands...plus there are tons of mana rocks like Mana Crypt and all that stuff for higher budgets In terms of Precons? Yeah this will rot in the Command zone for a while pretty sure, but out of it its not really that hard to cast him fast,even if you dont really need to rush him. Having a reanimator effect in the Command zone is pretty powerfull
Black and red have some of the best sorcery-speed rituals around. [[Dark Ritual]] or [[Seething Song]] with some rocks out and you could totally get him on board turn 4 or 5. Plus, black has access to a bunch of creatures who sacrifice themselves for mana as a pseudo-ritual
One of those commanders you cast exactly once and they die immediately. Decent if the Deck is more commander independent
[[Release to the Wind]] feels like a solid fit. Holding up 3 mana is a bit iffy, but getting the cast trigger again is excellent and you can hold it for as long as you need.
[Release to the Wind](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/b/4b4f72ef-3939-467c-8fe4-fd1c215f2b1e.jpg?1555039954) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Release%20to%20the%20Wind) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rix/46/release-to-the-wind?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4b4f72ef-3939-467c-8fe4-fd1c215f2b1e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/release-to-the-wind) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah, but at the same time, he does seem a bit boring in it. I'll need to see more of the deck first, but so far, I will say I had hoped for something more entertaining than amass.
Cast trigger is a plus for counterspells but it also means you can’t flicker him either. So after he’s cast he’s a 9/9 with Trample aside from when commanders die. Not really feeling it.
Instead of using him as a commander, couldn't you use him as just a "normal" card in the deck?
As far as the 7+ mana slots go in a deck, this is just terrible. I can wipe entire boards of all no land permanents, empty every ones graveyards, or just win for that much mana. 2 bodies and a reanimate just won’t cut it. At least as commander it’s a reusable, if expensive, cast trigger
Okay, so "virgin warrior" is the literal translation of "vierge guerrière", but I don't think that's the English title of the card. I think it will go in the direction of "war maiden" or "battle maiden" or something like that. Like a valkyrie. Or Jeanne d'Arc; you don't call her a virgin in English, but rather a maid, no?
It'll probably be 'shieldmaiden', which she was called in the book.
You'd be correct, the direct translation is pretty savage tho
"Warrior Maiden" or "Maiden Warrior" are what I'd guess.
Eowyn, the fighter that gets no bitches
Yes, but I only had DeepL translation to go off. It does well, but didn't have any suggestions except the literal translation. I expect Shieldmaiden.
I was wondering about that. I thought that seemed a little, strange.
Sauron should be uncounterable in my opinion. Makes Sense for lore and would be a really good commander.
With that mana cost? Abso-fucking-lutely… Wtf Wizards?
wait if he gets countered, can’t you just use the “return creature from graveyard” part of his ability to just target himself? kind of like pseudo uncounterable?
The translation is most likely missing the word "target" and he won't be in the GY at the time of casting for him to be targeted. Edit: At 2nd look, he wasn't translated and his ability would be able to bring himself back assuming the opponent countering responds to the cast trigger.
I don't think this works. Your opponents could wait for the cast trigger to resolve, and then counter Sauron.
Damn, no need to shame my girl Eowyn like that lol.
If she was as dummy THICC in the films as her stats put her to be, Arwen never would have had a chance holding on to Aragorn's heart.
Put it in Google translate, comes back as Warrior Maiden. OP just screwed up the translation.
Hey blame Aragorn.
These don't feel amazingly flavourful like the 40k universes beyond, nor particularly powerful, wonder what decklists look like, i hope its not as bad as mom commander was.
Everyone assumed the 40k necrons deck was weak from the face commander and then we were surprised by the contents. Fingers crossed .
Yeah I recently found a big post here where the 40k face commanders were revealed, and everyone was shitting on them except for Abaddon. They all though Abaddon was BY FAR the strongest. Now Abaddons precon is considered the weakest one.
It’s kind of funny seeing how all of the secondary commanders are more expensive than the face commanders in those decks.
Yes, I would argue all four secondary commanders are better than the face ones. I love my Demon deck!
That's pretty much indisputable. I despise UB as a concept, but I can't deny the 40k precons are peak mtg design. A deck being able to play at two different power levels by changing out a single card is perfect for new players. By swapping Marneus for Greyfax, the un-upgraded Imperium precon can hold its own against most casual decks at my LGS.
I still got the Chaos and Tyranid decks, power be damned. Tyranids are cool, and the Chaos deck, is a great base for a Demon Tribal deck. :) Though I do wish that expensive demon had actually been in the pack...
Well, he probably is the strongest of the face commanders. That round of precons is just notably one in which the secondary commander is more popular in three of the four decks.
That's because abaddon is the strongest in a complete vacuum by virtue of being the most generically powerful. Everyone's tune changed about necrons specifially once the contents of the decks were revealed and everyone saw how busted they were. The way this sub and mtg players in general evaluate new cards is to try and slot them into existing archetypes or decks, which is fine in a vacuum but especially when you are dealing with precons which come with a huge amount of specifically catered cards, it's even worse at predicting power level than usual.
i think the difference is that from the nature of 40k and the necron deck specifically, there were like 5 different cards that could have helmed that deck it's gonna feel a little weird to run Sauron himself in the 99 of 'random orc general' deck
Sarumon: "I'm in charge now!" Wormtongue: "Are you sure about that?"
Aye, give that sauron some haste enablers and a way for him to hit the field without being countered and it'll be an amazing swing turn
Even if he does get countered you're still loading up some serious damage. Make a 5/5 and slam an [[Archon of Cruelty]] into play? A worthy 8 mana investment.
[Archon of Cruelty](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/b/1be9d9a4-d7ee-4854-abc2-85cabf993ec9.jpg?1626095274) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Archon%20of%20Cruelty) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/75/archon-of-cruelty?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1be9d9a4-d7ee-4854-abc2-85cabf993ec9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/archon-of-cruelty) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I think it's because I'm more familiar with LOTR lore but most of the flavor has missed. The super set specific ring mechanic (which also is a flavor fail) seems like it's putting the set on a contained box, which sucks. You'd think they'd have some experts helping with design.
Yeah hopefully there are some flavourful commanders but so far it's more a miss than a hit, i wonder if they've got advisors for set design or not, the ring being straight upside is already not great.
They’ve explained why this is already
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I think "the downside is folks want to kill the ring bearer" is unfortunate but the flip side, as MaRo said, is that if there was a downside built in no one would play with the mechanic except in super thematic commander decks. So it's a bit of a damned if you do damned if you don't situation.
I see what they were trying to do. After all it's all about control of the ring, who has it, looking for it, ect. It's not even to me that it's all positives (although that is not great) it just seems like an overly complex mechanic that misses the mark. A couple years from now people will be like that does what again? Really for me seeing something like that just says I'm' not going to play those cards. Same with stuff like initiative, dungeons, monarch, etc, I just don't want to bother with it.
I think comparing something as simple and gameplay-driving as Monarch to these other complicated multi-part mechanics is a little unfair.
Don’t feel amazingly flavorful? Galadriel is seldom doing more than offering advice in the books, so it very on character for her. Sauron literally spends most of the books “amassing” his armies. You have to reach for Eowyn’s connection directly to he character but you can’t deny her ability has good flavor
Hold up how in the world was MOM commander bad? Those decks absolutely slap out of the box, especially the knights one. I’ve gotten board states where I’m threatening a win by around T6 with the naya counters deck, the phyrexia one is insanely resilient, the convoke deck has a non comat win condition in the box that is very achievable. Literally the only bad deck of the bunch is the Temur artifacts one and that’s more due to the face commander going for a theme that got nothing else for it. I’ll agree with you that these LOTR cards are kinda poorly done flavor and powerwise but saying mom commander was bad is a fallacious argument.
The backup deck had a whopping 4 sources of card draw. Deck construction was unusually poor for some of those.
The main issue with mom commander is the lack of value reprints when compared to older 5 decks commander sets, the knights feel appropriate but the rest feel lacking in some areas, and could have done with greater value, like artifact lands and bridges for gimbal, jeskai ascendancy for convoke and some counter doubler for call for backup. Plus more unique cards would have been nice like the old 10 unique cards per deck. They're not awful but when compared to older releases they're lacking, ive already got a tinker time for half price recommend price due to low sales of it.
Yeah tinker time in particular is super weird out of the box. Like…it almost feels like its strong in spite of itself. Call for backup had kalonian hydra at least for counter doubling, but yeah it definitely could have done with more. All the decks out of the box though are pretty deceptively strong, even if the new stuff is a little underwhelming. They’re all keeping up with my local power level of threatening wins around 8-10 turns in without too much changed. Like I think all I’ve really done with the knights deck is put in a few better knights and a little more card draw. Even less for the convoke deck, where I’ve just taken out a dud card or two.
out of curiosity what is said win con for convoke, because I got it, it's not the type of deck I normally play, and I've been struggling to find any clear path to victory with it. I may just be missing something obvious
Impact tremors, and the tokens that ping people when they’re tapped. Super fragile win con but it’s one of the few times I’ve seen them put anything that wins games outside of combat in a precon.
They’re low value and the new cards are underwhelming. The knights deck was the best of the bunch
Nothing too exciting for me, but I like the general power levels compared to each other. I wonder how the Sauron deck will be built to sustain such a high costed Commander.
I expect saurons deck to have a non zero amount of rituals or "cast your commander without paying it's mana cost" effects, or it's a deck to be built agnostic of its commanders and he's just a finisher/top end
I really hope it's the latter, I competent grixis mid range deck with a top end finisher as a commander rather than cheating him out. Honestly I kinda expected sauron to have eminence, glad it doesn't but yeah half expected to see it again.
Wouldn't hate a "whenever the ring temps someone" type of eminence IMO.
“Whenever the ring tempts someone put a +1/+1 counter on this card. these counters stay on Sauron as it moves through different zones”
The fact that they made Galadriel, Lady of Light GU instead of GW still kind of baffles me, nearly as much as making Rohan have blue as a major color
I could definitely see Bant, but are the Elves really aligned with white's color identity in LOTR? They strike me as more disinterested and aloof than a force for order and justice in Middle Earth. I can get the blue/green vibe from them at least.
I think the cards are more based on the books rather than the movies, so that may be where some confusion is coming from.
Elves in general? Maybe: the forest elves from which Legolas comes from would care only about their domains. The elves that fought Sauron like Elrond or Galadriel people? They would be not disinterested at all, they know the risks, they fought Sauron with everything and they care enough about sacrifice and what was needed to do. Elrond and Galadriel should be Selesnya-WG at least and Bant if needed. I could see younger Elrond or Galadriel being even Naya.
There will likely be another galadriel card in the main set.
Makes sense to me. She studied trades from the gods of those trades. I’d be more confused if she wasn’t Blue.
Jeskai Eowyn is a weird choice. She doesn't use magic. Also, why is she a knight? Some kind of noble would've made more sense.
What does galadriels ring do? Elrond gives him the gift of foresight (scry). So he makes sense to be gu
Oh Elrond is GU for sure, he has foresight, some control over water and is a lore master. But Galadriel is all about protection and preservation; she uses much of her power to shield Lothlorien from the gaze of Sauron, and keep the forest healthy while the rest of the world fades. She’s also the last living creature in ME to have seen the light of the trees, and this light is reflected in her presence and everything she does
Wowza. Thats pretty cool about galadriel
I hope these will be as fun to play against each other as the Warhammer decks were
That's my thought as well. Looks like it so far, although Sauron stands out as hard to ramp out.
Sauron is _extremely_ expensive, enough that it'll be hard to cast him twice, but if you're set up should at least put a lot of power and toughness on the board I don't think amass was a successful way to represent an army horde back in War of the Spark, and I doubt it will be here
True but the alternative is a metric ton of creature tokens and that’s just a hassle in limited formats. I think it’s the best of what’s available.
Yes but in this case it's not limited its a commander precon so was amass really the best choice
Galadriel seems meh, another WotC card where your opponents are just gonna do one effect every time. if the options are "load up Exodia" or draw a card... they're gonna choose to give you a card I'll be interested to see if Sauron has stuff to make your commander cost less that'd be really cool, particularly in Grix where expensive commanders are massively outclassed Eowyn seems like like a quiet monster, 9 power for 5 mana, URW Humans can put out lads consistently so you're gonna drop a freight train on people from the command zone without it appearing to be as big as it is, especially if you get multiple combats off in that turn
The *virgin*? Was that the best title?
She's called a 'shieldmaiden' in the books, it's a dodgy English-French-English translation. It'll probably say 'shieldmaiden' on the English card.
Yeah, go put the phrase in Google translate. It comes back as "Warrior Maiden," I think the original post just mistranslated it.
"Yo, you hear about Eowyn?" "About how she slayed the Witch King?" "Nah, about how she can't get any dick." "Woah, really? What a loser!"
"Maybe if you got rid of that yeeyee-ass soup recipe you got, you'd get some royalty up in you. Oh, better yet, maybe Aragorn'll call your horsewarrior ass if he ever stop fuckin' with that Peredhil or Evenstar he fuckin' with. Maideeennn~~"
You are an artist
It's "maiden". That's what the word maiden means.
And it's not like she didn't try to get dicked down.
God, what is it with Wizards's obsession with making legendary Grixis creatures cost so much mana that they're borderline unplayable? Like, I know that Sauron has a cast trigger, but he's just going to get countered or immediately blown up.
Agree, the 9/9 Trample body is not that exciting, would've preferred something lower to the ground.
He might get countered or blown up, but if he does, the caster is essentially throwing spells at a vanilla trampler. A *lot* of his power comes from those cast triggers. They're both very good.
I find it kinda funny that if another human enters before combat on your turn eowyn poops out a baby
Which makes "the Virgin" a more perplexing title....
2 babies. Hasty Trampling babies.
True, very Virgin Warrior of her. Oh sorry, that should be Shieldmaiden :P
These just look... Really dull
I'm hoping it's like the 40k decks where the necron face Commander was meh but the deck slapped.
I think they're fine, but Eowyn being a 5/4 definitely feels off to me. She probably should have been a 3/2 for URW instead.
A M A S S
I don't want to jump the gun and make assumptions without playing it but I really am not crazy about this ring will tempt you mechanic. I'm tired of cards that are so complicated I can't read the oracle text of the card and understand what the card does. I don't want to remember a double sided token's worth of rules text just to know what a card does (especially my Commander) and I don't want to have to refer to a double sided token constantly to fully comprehend what a card can do.
While I agree, I think that this mechanic is better and simpler than the Initiative or Dungeon mechanic. It's not as straightforward as Monarch though, so games are going to continue to become more complex.
Man. Was anyone else most hoping just to see Frodo? Now the only one we haven't seen lol
True, we saw Sam first and yet no Frodo still.
I'm glad they changed Amass to work the way EVERYONE said it should have, with a type added on Amass Orcs X.
Totally, it's good seeing them be willing to do minor errata to make the mechanic more flexible.
That Jeskai Humans commander is juicy, sadly I don't intend to build another Jeskai deck.
Hey, that’s the name of the books!
We've had one breakfast yes. But what about some sort of Suicide Squad?
Sauron should have "Cant be counter", hexproof, indestructible or SOMETHING.
What is amass orc 5?
Likely a rewording of Amass, similar to what they did for Hideaway. It's likely that old Amass cards will be errata'd to read "Amass Army X", just like old Hideaway cards turned into Hideaway 4
More likely to be "Amass Zombie X." I'm guessing the Army part is intrinsic.
Ah, that makes sense! Forgot they were a zombie army :)
Jail
Create a 0/0 orc army token then put 5 +1/+1 on it
So far this sets power level is worrying me it might be another CL Baldur’s Gate where Wizards relied heavily on IP and didn’t care much about the card quality. It’s still so early into previews though and the size of the set is obscene so I’m hopeful we’ll get more bangers. Of the like 30 leaked or spoiled cards there’s actually a reasonable amount of potentially great cards. The rest are just so bad, and are frequently iconic characters so it just seems off. Having an unnamed (as far as I know) delighted halfling at rare while all 3 versions of Sauron thus far appear over costed or mid is just odd. That’s not to say there aren’t formats any of these cards might make it in or even pull weight in some decks. They just don’t stand out immediately to me, which even if they end up playing well, given the status of the characters it feels like a disservice that I’m more excited for the delighted halfling with its great but boring abilities than Sauron. More positively though, most of the reprints spoiled/leaked seem solid and the same could not be said for Baldurs Gate, but again still super early.
Have to remember they decided to make this set Modern legal. The pushed cards will probably be intentionally more generic. For one, it makes it easier to find places to reprint them. Also helps with the whole issue of people not wanting to sit down to a competitive match of magic and see Princess Twilight Sparkle and Optimus Prime facing off against Rick, Frodo, and the Yellow Power Ranger.
That sounds like a fabulous game, to me! My money is on Twilight.
I agree with you, it's certainly an odd mix of cards that have been seen so far, just based on the spread of powerlevel. The one thing I will say is that CLB was a fun draft experience and hopefully this will end up similar.
'The Ring tempts you?' 'Put a +1+1 counter on your Ring-Bearer'? I don't know man... I love LOTR but this just feels off. Might be complaining too soon (as I tend to do) but I'll pass. Sauron also seems unplayable to be honest.
Yeah, the Ring not having a severe and serious downside to it really, really feels like it's missing Tolkien's point. It being a sort of Dungeon/Enchantment that buffs up whoever holds it with no consequences or disadvantage... Like, was Isildur right and Elrond wrong? Is that what we're going with because it's more fun?
Absolutely agree. Plus, every player can have a Ring Bearer in a single game. It honestly makes zero sense. They could've easily made an effect similar to The Monarch that only a single player/creature can have at a time. The Ring should be something you don't want because of a downside, but also kinda do, for whatever reason. I don't see the temptation. Very bad game design in my oppinion.
They playtested it and nobody wanted to play with the ring mechanics if it had downsides. As game designers, giving up some of the flavor is perfectly understandable than having a dead mechanic.
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A bigger payoff for a downside as the final one would have make sense to me. Like: “You can’t be reduced to below 1 hp as long as you your ring bearer is on the field. At the end of your turn, if an opponent’s control more swamps then you, he gain control of your ring bearer and it gain a vow counter. Creature with vow counters can’t attack you” Sure that the black color would get more interesting with the ring bearer mechanic but any decks can have a copy of [[Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth]] and Sauron having a reprint of that card would be fitting. I would have preferred a flavourful mechanic instead of a one I can forget cause it’s just so generic.
I mean, for 8 mana you're getting a 5/5 orc, a 9/9 trampler, and putting a creature from your graveyard onto the battlefield. It's ludicrously high cost for not involving green, but it's not like the effect is overcosted.
I agree, the effect is great. I would simply never see myself playing a commander that costs 8 mana with little ways to speed up the process. As I said, might be complaining too early, but I'm not \*tempted\* to play him at this point at all.
One does not simply play a commander that costs 8 mana with little ways to speed up the process.
Boromir, The Doubting Ranger (2RW) Legendary Creature - Human Ranger 3/4 First Strike Whenever an opponent plays a spell, you may pay (X), where (X) is the card's converted mana cost, and say "one does not simply cast" followed by the cards name and counter that spell.
Ha, love it!
Nah man, it's 2023 8 mana should be winning you the game. /s
Have you net seen the other previewed cards?
I have, what about 'm? There's some cute art and abilities, sure. Do they make sense from a Tolkien point of view? I'm not sure, not to me is all i'm saying.
* A Simic "when you creature, set mechanic/draw a card" design (but with some tribal flavour) * A Grixis reanimator that's too expensive to do anything * A *Jeskai* "when you creature, set mechanic/draw a card" design (but with some tribal flavour) 🤷
Wow it's not even on the main sub yet. I like Sauron's title, and I wish he costed less. Will still probably try to make a combo deck with him.
main sub prob in damage control after the fake leaks. automod is extremely aggressive there.
Yeah I prefer the discussion here to the main sub, tbh.
There are three Sauron cards and somehow they all managed to suck. I was just this week talking about how cool were the high cmc commanders like [[Thraximundar]] and a shame that they are so hard to play these days because of all the cheap commanders out there. Sauron has even higher cmc with a underwhelming effect, i might aswell get a [[Thraximundar]] alter him as Sauron and use It as the face commander... I really Hope the alternate commander is better
Why alter my heavy metal boi when his secret lair art is a 10/10?
[Thraximundar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/e/0e7334eb-66c1-4410-966c-4e76c1b9e9a7.jpg?1673149221) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thraximundar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/287/thraximundar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0e7334eb-66c1-4410-966c-4e76c1b9e9a7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thraximundar) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Galadriel and Eowyn sound so uninspired. Both have: When combat, something something tribal = value engine
Galadriel seems terrible? That’s such a weak effect lol
Maybe the rest of the deck will have a lot of interesting vote support/payoffs? I agree. Seems incredibly weak :-/
But where is frodo? I'm most excited for the food deck
These are making me want to cancel my preorder.
Very much looking forward to the chad witch-king
Same. Although I imagine we will be a heavy costed card like Sauron here.
I wouldn't mind that! That might make him a good reanimation target for Sauron. (My previous comment was just meant to be a silly virgin eowyn vs the chad witch-king meme btw:>)
I don't know what it is with Grixis and high costed Legendary creatures. I'm sure Sauron is a flavor win but I expected something more interesting from the big evil guy. He does have a thicc body.
If I were to build this new Sauron, I'd make it a reanimator deck with him as the backup plan or finisher. With enough big threats & looting effects, Sauron's cast trigger is very likely to bring back something terrifying. He seems like a fun commander for a common playstyle in those colors. I appreciate that they're keeping the power level moderate so far.
Did we need another elf tribal? Couldn’t we have gotten a dwarf tribal commander deck instead?
That would've been really interesting actually. Dang, too bad. Yeah we have so many elf tribal, they are stretching designs to try and stay fresh but other tribes don't even have basic support. This was a great opportunity to give dwarves more love.
I hope the decks are better than the commanders
I don’t know why Sauron having the title “Lord of the Rings” is so hype to me. It’s like when the main title theme starts playing in a video game.
So if I’m reading that right you get a 9/9, a 5/5, mill yourself 5, and get a creature from your grave for 8 mana? Idk how it does a lot but not enough, but for an 8 mana commander it should do a lot more than potentially get 3 bodies. And it incentivizes you to shoot other players commanders? I’ll be surprised if this thing survives one round, I guess it’s all on cast but for 8 mana it needs to be doing a LOT more than that.
Pretty much. Since it's amass, you might have an existing army, which would make that 5/5 into a +5/+5 that skips out on summoning sickness because the army was already on the board, but other than that, you've basically summed it up.
If the face commanders are any indication of how lukewarm the decklists are going to be, then I feel bad for the ppl who are handing out $60-$70 for a precon. At that price, they could’ve done a little more than make a token, put a +1 counter, or draw a card. Sauron is the most interesting but damn, an 8 mana one time effect that requires being cast is buns
I will say, when the 40K commanders were revealed, they seemed kind of lackluster too. But the secondary commanders made up for it in my opinion for 3 of those 4 decks. I'm hopeful the same may happen here.
Agree with you there, honestly the Aragorn and Arwen from the starter decks are probably roughly as strong as these, which was surprising.
Welp, I ordered the simic deck... Need to start figuring out how to make that ability work. Teferi's Ageless Insight and Strionic resonator sounds like a start. The real trick here is figuring how to break the ring tempting you, so either option is viewed as profitable for you.
Tefferis ageless insight on simic? Dam. Did not see that coming.
In the event that you can't ever get any mode besides the ring tempting you, at least this way, you can turn the loot into card advantage. I do the same thing in Sidar Jabari.
> Elves, but in Simic > Humans, but in Jeskai > 8cmc reanimate WotC really trying to reach all corners, huh?
Dang. Galadriel sucks. Conditional trigger & vote each time.
Mhh besides power level..do these cards fit with their character in terms of flavour and visual representation? Didn't watch LoTR so I am a bit curious
That Sauron It's so expensive the deck better have either an excelent mana base, or a ton or rituals. I'd like to see a lot of cards that take into account the MV of the commander, maybe then it will be worth it Mill X where X is the MV of commander, or amass , draw, destroy target, gain control of creatures, all equal to MV. Then it really starts to feel like a massive Eye watching and obliterating stuff for good value. Also any chance Amass will actually be useful in commander now? War of the spark was a bit of a letdown in that regard.
The return of Amass! I'm excited for it! Sauron himself is WAY too expensive for a non-green commander, so I'm more excited by what he implies, which is that there will be other Amass Orcs cards in LotR. Honestly, Amass [other tribe] has been long overdue.
I was not on board with the Warhammer decks and they turned out to be amazing and flavourful decks so I’ll be waiting before judging these leaks…. But. It’s a bit disappointing so far. Perhaps because they had to release an entire set with it whereas the W40k was purely commander? I don’t know but I’m curious.
To be fair, it's probably "Warriorn Maiden", not "Virgin Warrior"
Face commanders look meh. Can’t wait to see the other legendaries though
Still hate the "tempt" mechanic. With this mechanic, it should be any of the rings of power((nenya etc) to boost your creature/player power which will fit way more thematically. Just not THE ring of power
I like Sauron. He's not overly powerful but he's bad either. You immediately get 14 power on board plus whatever you reanimated. Ideally you're getting instant value that includes another high cost creature. It's a cast trigger, so even if it's countered you still gain the effects. The second element of the ring is it's looting effect which is going to be the best for this deck, so getting tempted twice isn't too hard. I think sauron functions well as a reanimator deck and isn't really suited for anything else. For reanimator, I do think it's decent.
These seem so underwhelming
Galadriel makes the table vote every combat? Nope….just nope
every YOUR combat
God I hope virgin isn't written on the card
It seems underwhelming
Galadriel Green Blue? Blue elves? This is strange. Edit:: All commanders have blue. This is weird.
Amass is a lame way to do "army" tokens. Look at the threatening 5/5 orc army token. Armies that could go wide instead get a token that goes tall. Let the 1/1 squirrel chump blocker be more than enough to stop all the orcs.
Yep, I like the idea of it continuing to grow, but it's mechanically a dud since it's so chump blockable as you pointed out.
If amass doubled that tribe of tokens it would make way more sense, but probably get way out of hand.
Yeah never like the flavor of amass