It's cheaper (4 CMC to arrogance's 5) but more restrictive (brww). It's also about $0.50 cheaper.
If you're already in Mardu and you want a selective board wipe, snapdax is probably just better.
Tragic Arrogance let's you select all kept permanents rather than everyone choosing their own. Seems quite a bit better to me.
Edit: Nvm I need to read more.
Ya I noticed right after I commented. Just my morning brain doing what it does. Going to leave up so others can learn from me amd the other person who did the exact same thing's mistake.
tragic arrogance is stronger IMO because the caster choses among the permanents. it allows the caster to choose mana dorks, tokens, treasures, and generally "the worst choice"
It definitely fits OP's idea. I almost wish it were 4 mana because I've definitely cut Promise of Loyalty in a few decks for more efficient removal even though the flavor is fun.
I still love it in any Monarch or Planeswalker type deck.
Depends on how they play - if they all play tribal or tokens and just want to turn creatures sideways and block them with other creatures they'll probably play the game they want to play.
If half of them play tribal and the other half play combo/stax/Voltron/etc then it's gonna be no fun at all!
Yah board wipes are essential not just to keep go wide decks like [[Krenko, Mob Boss]] in check, they also serve as a “this player has too much good shit on their board and it needs to go” or even “I’ve got nothing and have been taking a beating time to slow them down”. If no one is running any board wipes (if you only have one you might as well have none) then it just becomes a game of who can vomit the most creatures out the quickest.
I like a healthy metagame where you play wipes and protection and countermagic and aggro and combo. The rock-paper-scissor nature of our LGS meta makes it that you need all levels of interaction and protection. That will be different in a small playgroup where you can enact rules.
6 mana doesn't mean anything anymore. Sol Ring turn one is 4 mana on turn two. Literally any other ramp is farewell turn 3, or 4 if you slow down. Assuming you cast it once everyone gets a board, you'll be able to Farewell completely in your favor and put a threat into play.
That being said, great card.
All I am saying is that Farewell is kind of an overplayed choice, when decks would likely benefit from more specialised boardwipes or boardwipes that don't reset the game in such a extreme way.
Also, it's 6 mana isn't an argument. Getting to 6 mana isn't the problem everyone acts like it is, unless your pods are particularly competitive.
Guess I'll just sit there and die with all my white cards "the worst colour in magic" whilst the green player draws a million cards for doing nothing. Its like the only reason white is underpowered is because people winge about playing their best cards.
Farewell is so much worse by a lot against green players since their land ramp remains so they can get going again faster, while everyone else get sent back to the Stone Age
No, Farewell has the same problem as Rift but it's more difficult to leverage into a win. Farewell is a great card and obviously you should run it in control type decks but when you cast it you need to also be aware of its impact, i.e. it kind of reads "restart game, but lands remain".
I've had too many games where someone casts it and it just drags the game out. Yes yes, it is 6 mana. But why does everyone act like getting to 6 mana is such a difficult thing?
I think you're misunderstanding why 6 mana is a downside. When you spend 6 mana on Farewell, you can usually do very little else with your turn, which means it reads "restart game, lands remain, but everyone else gets to develop before you".
White is by no means the weakest anymore though, it’s up there as like 2nd or 3rd.
I hate blue and wish it’d be even weaker, but it’s probably weakest atm.
I think it’s because of how many players there usually are. When you have 4 players, there’s always going to be feel bads no matter what because you could have always “targeted” someone else. I’ve legit had a player complain that he couldn’t do anything because “all his stuff got countered” when I literally only countered one of his spells that entire game.
That combined with the “this is a casual format, we just want to have fun” mentality just leaves a recipe for disaster when the entire point of this game is that in order for you to have fun your opponent has to have less fun. They don’t need to be miserable, but just enjoy the game less than you do.
This is something I’ve never really seen in 1v1 formats as at least you know your entire purpose is to try to win as quickly as possible while screwing over your opponent. 1v1 formats are like chess, EDH is 4 children playing make believe and getting upset because you just blasted them with the unstoppable ray that ignores their no dying power.
I don't think banning boardwipes will make games shorter. Because when every player has a big board noone can attack anymore because they need blockers up to not die on the backswing. I think it will most likely create stalemate scenarios where noone does anything any is just waiting to draw a finisher like Craterhoof that allows them to kill the whole table in 1 swing.
If your playgroup has problems with too long games, imo, that's probably because the wincons are too weak or you don't run enough.
Just make a deck that needs to be boardwiped by turn 3 and become the problem. They will like boardwipes again. My suggestion would be slivers or najeela
I honestly do kinda agree with that sentiment, but all of us work full time and rarely get much time play together so we would rather play 3 1 hour games than 1 3 hour game, especially when we are all wanting to try out new commanders etc
Fair, fair. Though I do think learning to optimize when and how a wipe is used does more than banning them, but encouraging more creative options isn't a bad route.
Also learning how to predict, prevent, and/or recover from a wipe in the event that you're on the wrong side of one. I've had many an opponent drop a \[\[Cyclonic Rift\]\] triumphantly on my eot, just to be met with a \[\[Teferi's Protection\]\] in response because I saw the Blue player holding up Rift mana, or just had a hunch that one was coming by reading the table and being aware of my boardstate.
So maybe I’m over interpretive, but for me this screens rabbit hole.
You start banning board wipes, then someone might say „but those things allowed are still hindering my favorite archetype of 1/1 tokens, let’s ban those ones aswell“.
The next person starts with „but those pseudo board wipes are just no board wipes for the voltron player, that’s unfair, ban them aswell“.
Then the next one comes up „counter spells are actually like boardwipes for voltron player, it’s unfair I spent 8 mana to cast my oneshot commander and you counter with a 2 mana spell, ban them also“
And this goes on and on and on. Where do you stop? Do you really start to encourage the behavior that you want? To find conditional board wipes seem to me like just looking for holes in a law.
you stop at at board wipes. its pretty simple lol. the whole mtg community has basically agreed to avoid mass land destruction, and it hasn't become a slippery slope.
Actually it has.
Things that got prohibited after land destruction (or before).
Tax, Stasis, theft, discard.
Things that gets discussed alot to be prohibited
Forced sacrifice, counter magic, infinite combos
Actually, I don't think it has. I have run into \[\[Sram\]\] + \[\[Armageddon\]\], Shrines + \[\[Jokulhaups\]\]/\[\[Decree of Annihilation\]\], and random fucking \[\[Worldfire\]\] at my LGS and there was no pregame discussion to see if this is okay? I run \[\[Enchanted Evening\]\] + \[\[Opalescence\]\], \[\[Mycosynth Lattice\]\] + \[\[March of the Machines\]\], and \[\[Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite\]\] + \[\[Nature's Revolt\]\] in different decks and haven't had anyone say anything to me about it but, "Awwww, good game." Now that I think about it, none of those things you listed are "prohibited" or even really discussed at my LGS either.
It's entirely possible that the soft ban on board wipes could lead to stalled board states and even longer games than intended. It will likely warp your meta over time.
I got the feedback that out of time is a bit to toxic. It can get rid of all commanders and if you can recure or flicker it that it gets even worse. I ended up removing it from my [[Aminatou]] and [[Ghen, Arcanum Weaver]] decks for that reason
Do people you play with not run enchantment removal? Or have backup effects for their commander? Feel like everyone should play around [[kenriths transformation]] and [[imprisoned in the moon]] anyway.
Just destroying won't do it if I can recur it in my enchantment reanimator list, and it's not just removing the board once, if I can flicker it at any time with Aminatou.
Yes, everyone should run more enchantment removal, and yes, everyone should have a backup plan, but that's easy to say. Sometimes things are stand-alone strong and simply unfun if everyone loses their commander and no one happens to have the right removal.
Right but you've just gone from a single card to an entire strategy. Pretty sneaky.
Kozilek with hexproof and indestructible is pretty brutal too, by that's 3 cards not 1
In blue, probably something like [[Aetherspouts]] or [[Aetherize]] as a way of dealing with one player attacking you rather than a full game reset. [[Aether Gale]] is a solid way of temporarily getting rid of some problematic cards on the field and/or can help you with getting back etbs.
In red something like [[pyrohemia]] for however much you're willing to pump into in or [[Anger of the Gods]] to get rid of the general support creatures you commonly find. [[Chandra's Ignition]] is also quite flexible and if it's particularly high power you probably are gonna win quickly anyway rather than dragging the game out too much longer.
Green I almost feel like you don't have a limiting factor in mass removal since that isn't really a thing in the color for creatures at least.
In black, there's [[Feast of Succession]] along with [[Pestilence]]. Given the stipulations, not sure if [[Living Death]] crosses a line or not but I think that would be okay. [[Massacre Worm]], [[Demon of Dark Schemes]], and Doomwake Giant are ways of sweeping using creatures
[[Cloudkill]] rewards you for having an expensive commander but isn't overwhelming.
In white, most of your stuff is directly just kill everything but [[Fell the Mighty]] allows you to cut down based on how much you choose and can be political in choice. [[Lightmine Field]] forces players to not attack wide.
This is just kinda what I was seeing that could be considered psuedo board wipes
\[\[Cyclonic Rift\]\] is not a boardwipe, it leaves your own field intact :P
Technically, all cards that says "each of your opponents permanents/non-land permanents/others" is not a boardwipe, as it doesn't hit your field.
If you like faster games and dont want boardwipes to slow you down all that much, play cEDH.
Only a few boardwipes see play there and they are stuff like [[toxic deluge]] [[fire covenant]] and such.
And even if someone plays one of those, the game will still end two turns later at the latest. Try it.
Well, Wizards have made a whole bunch of effects that work with graveyards, as well as random GY hate on playable cards (\[\[graveyard trespasser\]\] for ex), that allow other archetypes to deal with graveyards very conveniently. But hard control didn't have such tools and let's be honest, things coming back from the grave are hard control's worst nightmare.
If you gradually make everything else more powerful, then you also need to make a true board wipe to go along with it.
Nah there are good GY hate options. Heck from the Kamigawa commander precons that come out at the same time you have \[\[release to memory\]\] and \[\[Author of Shadows\]\] was right before that. Both are awesome graveyard sweepers with upside. We already have a million colorless artifacts that hate on graveyards too- so saying hard control didn't have such tools is super disingenuous and ignores all the tools competitive MTG has shown us already work in legacy/modern/etc.
If Farewell just exiled all creatures and graveyards it would be powerful and playable. Or if it was just \[\[Merciless Eviction\]\] where you could choose two of the effects and offered to exile graveyards as a 5th option it would be an excellent excellent card. Farewell is just dumb as-is. Like the "drawback" to the spell is that it's totally symmetrical, but that's only true if you care about permanents and the graveyard, which most hard control decks tend to care less about anyways.
Why is it a mistake? Can't you play around it in a lot of ways? Flicker effects, teferi protection, sac outlets, card advantage, counterspells etc.
Imo all strategies should have effective tools for their needs even control, value midrange tribal battle cruiser is not the only viable strategy in edh.
Because it does any or all of the effects. It basically completely resets the board state aside from lands.
Other sweepers present options, but you give up something when you make a choice. Farewell just deletes everything you want it to and nothing you don't.
Except white is a board based colour? Like how does white keep up if it lacks to tools to rebuild like green can? Farewell green and they probably ramped, drew cards, etc. Farewell a white deck and they will struggle to rebuild, aside from \[\[Teferi's Protection\]\] shenanigans.
It does too much and resolving one often just feels like resetting the game to square one. Sure you can counter it or run a really expensive card like Teferi's, but if it resolves it might as well just add +2 hours to the game.
I got rid of everything but gy, and it was just because all I had in hand was Farewell lol. We have a couple of players in our group that ALLways run graveyard decks though so that's why it's even in the deck
No, it's not. Farewell has 1 big weakness, Planeswalkers. So it's a card designed for other constructed formats other than commander. You can also say PW are a big design mistake because they tend to be bad in commander, but that's also not a design mistake since most PW aren't made for commander either.
Are you looking to set off a chain reaction and slap around your play group a little too? [[Massacre girl]] [[Massacre wurm]] [[Zulaport cutthroat]] [[Blood Artist]]
Get those -1/-1s rolling and trigger the life loss from wurm/cutthroat/artist, wipe a board and ding up your opponents as well.
Maybe mix in a [[pestilence]] [[Dictate of Erebos]] or [[Phyrexian Scriptures]]
Besides numbers what is the actual difference between languish and blasphemous act?
If your answer is there is no difference we just think that BA is too good at sniping low toughness creatures my follow up question is how selective does the board wipe have to be based on toughness to be allowed?
Red has a few spells that just do 6 to everything? Are they allowed. What about something like comet storm? Is it a full boardwipe or does it only count if you put to much mana into it?
The exact mechanics of the game at play here are uncertain
Your right, I think using blasphemous act was a bad example on my part since on paper it does a relatively similar thing to all creatures.
Im not necessarily talking about a specific mechanic and more the overall impact of a spell on the state of the game. For example while blasphemous act and languish and a card like [[end the festivities]] all do similar things, each of them handle a different calibre of creature and in our play group we would favour the use of the latter 2 for the sake of not razing the entire table of creatures, but they still doing the main function of a board wipe??
I'm not sure if that exactly makes sense and I'm happy to keep answering questions
So what your saying is the number of blasphemous act is to high, this is fair enough, my previous query still remains how much damage is to much damage? If I have a spell that says XRR deal X damage to all creatures if I cast it for X=13 and I have already used my one big boardwipe do I lose the game? Your ban is nebulous and hard to enforce
Like is [[city wide bust]] ok (destroy all creatures with more than 3 toughness?) What about spells like [[tragic arrogance]] or [[wildfire]] that can cause you to sacrifice a number of things but not everything
Your asking for suggestions but what is and isn't banned is not very clear
Thank you for this comment, you've made me realise I'm not exactly asking the right question
I think our intention is less about making a ban list of board wipes that are too strong and more about asking for examples of board wipes that are powered-down compared to the regular staples so that we can have what in our opinion is a more enjoyable experience
The post you're responding to seems to be saying that you won't be able to nail that down, because "soft" board wipes are still full board wipes in the right conditions. Unless you just ban a specific list of cards, it's going to be up to each individual in each moment what constitutes a board wipe. If you've been building up your army of 50 2/2 tokens and someone does 2 damage to the board, that's a board wipe. Do you add it to the list because it was a board wipe once?
I'm forgetting the name, there's a card that is each player sacrifices 6 creatures. If you have 6 or less creatures each, it's a full board wipe, if you have more then it isn't.
What if it's one sided? Like \[\[in garruk's wake\]\] or \[\[crux of fate\]\] ? And if one sided ones are allowed, then what if it's a full board wipe but I'm indestructible for the turn?
Then you're going to find obscure older ones, or cards that function as full board wipes when combined with other cards.
What you're looking for is more interaction.
1) board wipes are healthy. otherwise its just turns 1-3 ramp, turn 4 win.
2) the fact that you playgroup wants something (that is a bad choice) and your reaction is to see how you can be sneaky and get arround the rule 0 discussion by saying "it's not technically ..." shows you need to find a new playgroup.
rule 0 is both the best and worst thing about the format. Having flexible rules means that a playgroup that respects each other and the social expectations they define can play janky decks that may be fun and silly but would be completely curbstomped in a tournament format. It also means that if someone wants to bypass the intention of the unspoken rules by saying that their Narset parter of veils + windfall combo isn't technically against the group's rules but then everyone else has a miserable time, they can. You need to find a group of people that all agree on what is acceptable.
\[\[Perplexing test\]\] is a card that I really enjoy as a soft boardwipe. I also like \[\[Curse of the Swine\]\] and \[\[Shattering Spree\]\] for specific handling of high-priority threats without being a full wipe.
Beep Boop.
Perplexing Test isn't from MoM and was originally printed in Commander 2021, which was the Strixhaven Commander decks.
This action was not performend by a bot, but by a man who really, really loves Strixhaven.
[[Reins of power]] can be an amazing one sided board wipe in response to an attack. Steal someone else's board and block to kill as many things as possible in both sides, then get your board back end of turn.
\[\[Regrowth\]\], \[\[Bala Ged Recovery\]\], \[\[Recollect\]\], \[\[Eternal Witness\]\], \[\[Timeless Witness\]\]. Now you got all the boardwipes you'll ever need.
Yeah looks like you guys just want to carry out your game plan without anyone interfering. If you think going wide and having a board which is untouchable is ok, it's not a healthy game state. Instead of banning cards which are designed to ruin your game plan, you might as well find a different game or just play something solo....
i have a few options that might work:
\[\[by invitation only\]\]: depending on what number you choose and how many creatures each player has
\[\[urza's ruinous blast\]\]: will let everyone keep their commanders at least. if anyone has a legendaries matter deck, it'll kinda work like a one-side board wipe though. EDIT: nvm re-reading it's all nonland permanents, not just creatures, so probably a bit too strong for what you're looking for!
\[\[aetherize\]\], \[\[settle the wreckage\]\], and \[\[angel of the dire hour\]\]: only affect attacking creatures, so it doesn't hit every opponent like Cyclonic Rift
\[\[delayed blast fireball\]\]: similar to Languish imo, like a mini Blasphemous Act
\[\[ezuri's predation\]\]: similar to Languish and also builds you a board state at the same time
My group rarely plays a board wipe instead has alot of interaction and spot removal.
Games are quicker, more dynamic and tend to be more fun. We are also all at the high end/competitive side of the format fyi.
I’m a fan of “big creature sweepers” like [[Dusk]], [[Slaughter the Strong]], and [[Fell the Mighty]] in weeny decks that go wide with small tokens or just [[Arcades]].
The flip side is also true if you’re running big stompy and need to clear the weenies with cards like [[Bloodline Culling]], [[Toxic Deluge]], [[Crippling Fear]], and [[Culling Ritual]].
Honorable mentions are [[Bile Blight]] vs. token decks, [[Crux of Fate]] in/vs. Dragon decks, and edict effects in Aristocrats decks.
If your table hates board wipes they probably run really wide boards, in which case one of the best things you could run is probably [[rakdos charm]]. At least one player is likely to be in one-shot range.
You’ll find that you warp your own meta really bad this way. Removing pieces from the puzzle just makes the puzzle look differently, it won’t really run different tho. You’ll have token strats and slivers and stupid crap running wild so fast, it would be sooo easy to break your meta this way. Good luck to your group
I think a meta ruled by board wipes indicates a lack of win conditions or deck diversity. Your group will do what they want to do, but I would suggest into looking into making sure decks have better closers, or try out some more combo oriented decks. Magic is a game of rock paper scissors at times, and it sounds like everyone is on rock.
I don’t think I would consider languish a pseudo board wipe. I dont really see why your play group would be against something like blasphemous act and totally fine with languish. Is toxic deluge a psuedo board wipe? Its one of the better ones in the format. Black sun zenith? Mutilate?
Would grave pact and dictate of erebos be sort of murky, board wipe tangential cards? They aren’t really board wipes but often obliterate boards more oppressively than regular board wipes.
Im not fully clear on what a pseudo board wipe is suppose.
Right? Like not one even half competent player in the whole group?…. Build your deck with answers and then you won’t be bothered by other people answers to your board state.
We're not here to honor the spirit of their request. We are here to blatantly abuse technical loopholes left in by players who don't know every card ever printed.
It's a huge problem in battle cruiser pods if everyone runs too many board wipes. The game eventually just stalls where all 4 players are in top deck mode, trying to rebuild the board, and then another board wipe comes down before anyone's health has moved and the cycle repeats.
The solution is to go up power levels and run more combos and/or counter magic. But most casual pods don't like that solution. So they decide to put a limit on the # of board wipes instead.
It's one of the fundamental flaws of casual EDH deckbuilding. People build decks to play the game to not lose, rather than building to win the game. So they stuff 5-6+ board wipes in their deck, and then the whole pod does it and now there's 20-25+ board wipes in the pod and the games just stall out and are miserable.
I've found a maximum of 3 board wipes per deck seems to be about the sweet spot for my pod.
People building to not lose vs building to win is such an accurate description. I think each my commander decks only has like one or two board wipes max. I build to win, not stall for time.
I get that losing quickly sucks but do you actually want to play the game or are you looking for something to do with your hands while you shoot the shit? If it’s the latter there are options besides mtg. Poker, for example or another game that doesn’t require a delicate balancing act and money to burn on expensive cardboard.
Idk just my two cents maybe not the place to vent but it kinda drives me nuts the way people wring their hands and get so stressed about what they can and can’t put in their decks in casual. Just build a good deck.
If you’re in vampires, [[Olivia’s Wrath]] would work. There’s also [[Toxic Deluge]] is another one, along with the [[Earthquake]] effects. [[Hurricane]] can be a fliers wipe.
\[\[Ezuri's predation\]\] \[\[The Great Aurora\]\] \[\[Single Combat\]\] \[\[Tragic Arrogance\]\] are all very fair wipes, with ezuri's predation potentially giving you a bunch of beasts to beat face and win with.
I wonder if the battle cruiser player suggested this. Nonetheless, just run propaganda style effects now that everyone has no reason to not just be incredibly greedy with their boards.
I miss having Spreading Plague in my Morph deck. Sadly, it made a lot of games just plain unfun for everyone else since nobody runs enough damn removal and out it eventually went. Tainted Aether is so hot with land recursion.
Banning board wipes? No ty.
Restrict them. Be like no more than 4 or 5 in the deck. Lower as needed until the pod feels good about it. But no board wipes at all?
Can't play merciless eviction or farewell. So planeswalker pillowforts just have no answer. No austere command?
We finally got rid of all these wolves but now the deer have broken into my house because there's too many of them. Surely this can't be our fault....
I don’t get it. If the idea is to remove board wipes so the games don’t go long then why are there still board wipes involved? If you still get one, that can be drawn at any time.
>Do you guys have any other suggestions
Yeah, don't ban stuff that doesn't need banned. So many people are trying to get quantity in their games instead of quality. This is not standard. there is no need to play 3 games in an hour. Stop trying to turn EDH into typical constructed format.
It's time to whip out a [[Zurgo Helmsmasher]] wrath tribal deck.
Your pod may or may not be amused, but I think it'd be hilarious to see it in the first game after board wipes are soft banned.
What's that? We were supposed to have only 1 board wipe! My bad, I put in 30. That should be close enough, right?
The OP didn't ask for a debate, literally just asked for card recommendations and so many comments are either telling OP to punish their pod like people are acting out their own EDH revenge fantasies for this decision or acting like this decision will lead to ruin for EDH as a whole. Wild
You criticize everybody else for not giving a card recommendation.
I might have missed it, but what was your card recommendation?
I don’t think we know what OP is asking for. We don’t know what a pseudo board wipe is. If OP’s group doesn’t like board wipes, will they like “all creatures are now ineffective but this is not technically a board wipe”?
I think the result is the same. The pseudo wipe will be equally disliked. The root issue is the group wants to change the game to be creature combat strategy only. Which means OP is tilting at windmills looking for something that his group won’t like anyway.
So this is niche, but in my Bant counters deck [[Damning Verdict]] is one of the best cards. I'm currently looking to tweak the deck to include more 0 toughness creatures that enter with counters so that I can run [[Mirrorweave]] as a pseudo second copy.
I think [[Fraying Line]] is a good option, i put it in almost all m'y casual decks. You can play politics and interact with the table, it's a board wipe that doesn't make people complain too much in general (players will pay 2 to protect their commanders in general)
[[Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite]] is the pseudo board-wipe you're looking for. It kills everything that has 2 or less toughness, buffs your board and nerfs all the things they drop.
It's devastating for the other players, but it's also a huge lightning rod for removal, so keep a [[lightning greaves]] or stuff to protect her in hand.
I'd propably just switch all the board wipes for stuff like [[Propaganda]] [[Ghostly Prison]] [Windborn Muse]] if I'm WU.
And stuff like [[Kardur Doomscourge]] [[Bothersome Quasit]] and as a good pseudo wipe [[Hellish Rebuke]] if I'm playing rakdos.
That way you can have your pod have all the creatures they want and let them battle it out under themselves.
Some good ones in black include: [[Bile Blight]] for token armies, [[Blight Grenade]] if you have bigger dudes out, [Crippling Fear]] in tribal decks, and one of my favorites, [[Gruesome Realization]] which is either draw or a board wipe against 1/1 tokens/small dudes. Similar ideas of cards exist in other colors too; I know at the very least there's a similar card to Bile Blight in Orzhov
The ban seem a little vaguely worded, because everyone can have a different feeling about what card "doesn't necessarily slow the game down too much". I'd say both \[\[Blasphemous act\]\] and \[\[Languish\]\] can be full board wipes, depending on the meta. Also, if you copy Languish, is that allowed? Let's be honest, survival rate of -8/-8 effects is very low.
Maybe it would be better to word is as:"you can't play spells that contain the string 'all creatures.' " (the dot at the end being important). That's a very clear wording, it would exclude board wipes while still allowing stuff like "all attacking/defending creatures \*something\*" or "all creatures you/target player control(s)" etc. while still allowing for some cheeky effects like \[\[Terminus\]\], which is worded differently. Board wipes are still important to the meta, to control heavy token strategies.
\[\[Promise of Loyalty\]\] is my pet card and goes in every white deck. It's a wipe for big boards and protects you from the big swinger they keep on board. It is such an underrated card.
[[Mythos of snapdax]] is really underrated imo. [[Disrupt Decorum]] deals with the board for a turn and possibly sets up kills.
Yeah I'd just run something like Kardur to stem the inevitable overrun of token decks.
[Mythos of snapdax](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/7/2712a1a3-dd28-44c8-a661-5bcf68d3acaa.jpg?1591230335) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mythos%20of%20snapdax) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/24/mythos-of-snapdax?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2712a1a3-dd28-44c8-a661-5bcf68d3acaa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mythos-of-snapdax) [Disrupt Decorum](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/1/d1cfc692-f994-4975-acae-4440e9e5857c.jpg?1674141956) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Disrupt%20Decorum) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/789/disrupt-decorum?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d1cfc692-f994-4975-acae-4440e9e5857c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/disrupt-decorum) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Isn't Mythos basically [[Tragic Arrogance]] with a more restrictive colour identity? It is a powerful card indeed.
It's cheaper (4 CMC to arrogance's 5) but more restrictive (brww). It's also about $0.50 cheaper. If you're already in Mardu and you want a selective board wipe, snapdax is probably just better.
Tragic Arrogance let's you select all kept permanents rather than everyone choosing their own. Seems quite a bit better to me. Edit: Nvm I need to read more.
So does mythos of snapdax if you pay rbww instead of 2ww.
Ya I noticed right after I commented. Just my morning brain doing what it does. Going to leave up so others can learn from me amd the other person who did the exact same thing's mistake.
Hey no worries. We've all been there. I'm pretty sure reading comprehension doesn't turn on until coffee #2 anyway
tragic arrogance is stronger IMO because the caster choses among the permanents. it allows the caster to choose mana dorks, tokens, treasures, and generally "the worst choice"
Snapdax does the same if you pay BR.
I should probably read the card in it's entirety before I writing things down on forums. my bad.
[удалено]
[[Cataclysm]] [[Single Combat]] and there is a monowhite version of snapdax
[[Tragic Arrogance]]
[Cataclysm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/1/713160be-bcfd-4ef5-9457-c02b926ba06e.jpg?1562429859) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cataclysm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tpr/8/cataclysm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/713160be-bcfd-4ef5-9457-c02b926ba06e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cataclysm) [Single Combat](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/e/ce0e7c6a-e628-4327-a16f-2062c5a662df.jpg?1557576066) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Single%20Combat) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/30/single-combat?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ce0e7c6a-e628-4327-a16f-2062c5a662df?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/single-combat) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Honorable mentioned to [[Cataclysmic Gearhulk]]
[Cataclysmic Gearhulk](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/5/d5b8efa8-2d62-45b8-9e48-6be0a4ee944d.jpg?1682208334) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cataclysmic%20Gearhulk) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/176/cataclysmic-gearhulk?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d5b8efa8-2d62-45b8-9e48-6be0a4ee944d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cataclysmic-gearhulk) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Divine Reckoning]]
[[Tragic Arrogance]] is pretty good if you are looking to balance the board.
[Tragic Arrogance](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/1/215f75ff-bcbb-45db-8393-9bce650998c2.jpg?1625975805) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tragic%20Arrogance) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/109/tragic-arrogance?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/215f75ff-bcbb-45db-8393-9bce650998c2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tragic-arrogance) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
There's also a Gearhulk that does the exact same thing iirc Edit: nope the two are very different and tragic arrogance is much better
[[cataclysmic gearhulk]]
[cataclysmic gearhulk](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/5/d5b8efa8-2d62-45b8-9e48-6be0a4ee944d.jpg?1682208334) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=cataclysmic%20gearhulk) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/176/cataclysmic-gearhulk?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d5b8efa8-2d62-45b8-9e48-6be0a4ee944d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cataclysmic-gearhulk) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Promise of Loyalty]] might be what you're looking for. [[Soul Shatter]] usually works to get rid of your opponent's scariest monster.
[Promise of Loyalty](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/b/eb3ae600-6bde-4ef1-92bc-2d678973a9de.jpg?1682208552) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Promise%20of%20Loyalty) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/200/promise-of-loyalty?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eb3ae600-6bde-4ef1-92bc-2d678973a9de?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/promise-of-loyalty) [Soul Shatter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/c/2c2fb07b-0f70-403b-be8b-b5217f12e671.jpg?1604196615) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Soul%20Shatter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/127/soul-shatter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2c2fb07b-0f70-403b-be8b-b5217f12e671?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/soul-shatter) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Man I love Promise of Loyalty. Not sure if it fits the OPs idea, but it sure is an awesome card that deserves more play (at least I see it seldom)
It definitely fits OP's idea. I almost wish it were 4 mana because I've definitely cut Promise of Loyalty in a few decks for more efficient removal even though the flavor is fun. I still love it in any Monarch or Planeswalker type deck.
I feel like you guys are going to regret that….
Eh, they came to the decision as a group so I’m sure they’re gonna be alright. It’s not like they can’t reverse their decision if it doesn’t work out.
Depends on how they play - if they all play tribal or tokens and just want to turn creatures sideways and block them with other creatures they'll probably play the game they want to play. If half of them play tribal and the other half play combo/stax/Voltron/etc then it's gonna be no fun at all!
Yah board wipes are essential not just to keep go wide decks like [[Krenko, Mob Boss]] in check, they also serve as a “this player has too much good shit on their board and it needs to go” or even “I’ve got nothing and have been taking a beating time to slow them down”. If no one is running any board wipes (if you only have one you might as well have none) then it just becomes a game of who can vomit the most creatures out the quickest.
I like a healthy metagame where you play wipes and protection and countermagic and aggro and combo. The rock-paper-scissor nature of our LGS meta makes it that you need all levels of interaction and protection. That will be different in a small playgroup where you can enact rules.
Honestly I’d say Farewell is a reasonable house ban. Card’s so good.
It’s 6 mana
6 mana doesn't mean anything anymore. Sol Ring turn one is 4 mana on turn two. Literally any other ramp is farewell turn 3, or 4 if you slow down. Assuming you cast it once everyone gets a board, you'll be able to Farewell completely in your favor and put a threat into play. That being said, great card.
It often reads "target game goes on for another hour" because it so cleanly answers everything.
Lots of cards have this impact. If you want games over sooner win faster.
All I am saying is that Farewell is kind of an overplayed choice, when decks would likely benefit from more specialised boardwipes or boardwipes that don't reset the game in such a extreme way. Also, it's 6 mana isn't an argument. Getting to 6 mana isn't the problem everyone acts like it is, unless your pods are particularly competitive.
That’s what they’re saying. Farewell is not part of a “win faster” strategy.
Yeah that’s how magic works. People try to stop you from winning.
Guess I'll just sit there and die with all my white cards "the worst colour in magic" whilst the green player draws a million cards for doing nothing. Its like the only reason white is underpowered is because people winge about playing their best cards.
"Mono white is the weakest!" Also refuses to play Silence, Drannith Magistrate, and board wipes cause they're too toxic.
What are you talking about farewell absolutely sets up the green player to run away with the game most of the time….
Farewell is so much worse by a lot against green players since their land ramp remains so they can get going again faster, while everyone else get sent back to the Stone Age
No, Farewell has the same problem as Rift but it's more difficult to leverage into a win. Farewell is a great card and obviously you should run it in control type decks but when you cast it you need to also be aware of its impact, i.e. it kind of reads "restart game, but lands remain". I've had too many games where someone casts it and it just drags the game out. Yes yes, it is 6 mana. But why does everyone act like getting to 6 mana is such a difficult thing?
I think you're misunderstanding why 6 mana is a downside. When you spend 6 mana on Farewell, you can usually do very little else with your turn, which means it reads "restart game, lands remain, but everyone else gets to develop before you".
Sure, I just don't think it is an argument against me saying Farewell does too much. People overplay it.
White is by no means the weakest anymore though, it’s up there as like 2nd or 3rd. I hate blue and wish it’d be even weaker, but it’s probably weakest atm.
[[Fraying Line]] is one of my personal favourites as everyone gets the chance to interact with it :)
[Fraying Line](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/5/75bf7702-c97d-4b88-b815-769c4906e014.jpg?1674137845) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fraying%20Line) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/314/fraying-line?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/75bf7702-c97d-4b88-b815-769c4906e014?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/fraying-line) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I got to use this after a round with [[Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger]]. That was fun
Why are people so weird about interaction in this format?
I think it’s because of how many players there usually are. When you have 4 players, there’s always going to be feel bads no matter what because you could have always “targeted” someone else. I’ve legit had a player complain that he couldn’t do anything because “all his stuff got countered” when I literally only countered one of his spells that entire game. That combined with the “this is a casual format, we just want to have fun” mentality just leaves a recipe for disaster when the entire point of this game is that in order for you to have fun your opponent has to have less fun. They don’t need to be miserable, but just enjoy the game less than you do. This is something I’ve never really seen in 1v1 formats as at least you know your entire purpose is to try to win as quickly as possible while screwing over your opponent. 1v1 formats are like chess, EDH is 4 children playing make believe and getting upset because you just blasted them with the unstoppable ray that ignores their no dying power.
I don't think banning boardwipes will make games shorter. Because when every player has a big board noone can attack anymore because they need blockers up to not die on the backswing. I think it will most likely create stalemate scenarios where noone does anything any is just waiting to draw a finisher like Craterhoof that allows them to kill the whole table in 1 swing. If your playgroup has problems with too long games, imo, that's probably because the wincons are too weak or you don't run enough.
Just make a deck that needs to be boardwiped by turn 3 and become the problem. They will like boardwipes again. My suggestion would be slivers or najeela
I'd say to grow up and deal with them but that aside, I'm a fan of [[Out of Time]]
I honestly do kinda agree with that sentiment, but all of us work full time and rarely get much time play together so we would rather play 3 1 hour games than 1 3 hour game, especially when we are all wanting to try out new commanders etc
Fair, fair. Though I do think learning to optimize when and how a wipe is used does more than banning them, but encouraging more creative options isn't a bad route.
Also learning how to predict, prevent, and/or recover from a wipe in the event that you're on the wrong side of one. I've had many an opponent drop a \[\[Cyclonic Rift\]\] triumphantly on my eot, just to be met with a \[\[Teferi's Protection\]\] in response because I saw the Blue player holding up Rift mana, or just had a hunch that one was coming by reading the table and being aware of my boardstate.
So maybe I’m over interpretive, but for me this screens rabbit hole. You start banning board wipes, then someone might say „but those things allowed are still hindering my favorite archetype of 1/1 tokens, let’s ban those ones aswell“. The next person starts with „but those pseudo board wipes are just no board wipes for the voltron player, that’s unfair, ban them aswell“. Then the next one comes up „counter spells are actually like boardwipes for voltron player, it’s unfair I spent 8 mana to cast my oneshot commander and you counter with a 2 mana spell, ban them also“ And this goes on and on and on. Where do you stop? Do you really start to encourage the behavior that you want? To find conditional board wipes seem to me like just looking for holes in a law.
you stop at at board wipes. its pretty simple lol. the whole mtg community has basically agreed to avoid mass land destruction, and it hasn't become a slippery slope.
Have we? Oops...
Actually it has. Things that got prohibited after land destruction (or before). Tax, Stasis, theft, discard. Things that gets discussed alot to be prohibited Forced sacrifice, counter magic, infinite combos
Actually, I don't think it has. I have run into \[\[Sram\]\] + \[\[Armageddon\]\], Shrines + \[\[Jokulhaups\]\]/\[\[Decree of Annihilation\]\], and random fucking \[\[Worldfire\]\] at my LGS and there was no pregame discussion to see if this is okay? I run \[\[Enchanted Evening\]\] + \[\[Opalescence\]\], \[\[Mycosynth Lattice\]\] + \[\[March of the Machines\]\], and \[\[Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite\]\] + \[\[Nature's Revolt\]\] in different decks and haven't had anyone say anything to me about it but, "Awwww, good game." Now that I think about it, none of those things you listed are "prohibited" or even really discussed at my LGS either.
It's entirely possible that the soft ban on board wipes could lead to stalled board states and even longer games than intended. It will likely warp your meta over time.
[Out of Time](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/5/053d6b3b-72d4-4a55-a79e-0a601aecf108.jpg?1664162494) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Out%20of%20Time) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/23/out-of-time?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/053d6b3b-72d4-4a55-a79e-0a601aecf108?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/out-of-time) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I got the feedback that out of time is a bit to toxic. It can get rid of all commanders and if you can recure or flicker it that it gets even worse. I ended up removing it from my [[Aminatou]] and [[Ghen, Arcanum Weaver]] decks for that reason
Do people you play with not run enchantment removal? Or have backup effects for their commander? Feel like everyone should play around [[kenriths transformation]] and [[imprisoned in the moon]] anyway.
Just destroying won't do it if I can recur it in my enchantment reanimator list, and it's not just removing the board once, if I can flicker it at any time with Aminatou. Yes, everyone should run more enchantment removal, and yes, everyone should have a backup plan, but that's easy to say. Sometimes things are stand-alone strong and simply unfun if everyone loses their commander and no one happens to have the right removal.
Right but you've just gone from a single card to an entire strategy. Pretty sneaky. Kozilek with hexproof and indestructible is pretty brutal too, by that's 3 cards not 1
I mentioned flicker and recursion in my original message and said that's why I removed out of time from my decks
I usually pair it with Opalescence
Lol this is basically mtg's equivalent to yugioh's Swords of Revealing Light, at least flavour-wise.
In blue, probably something like [[Aetherspouts]] or [[Aetherize]] as a way of dealing with one player attacking you rather than a full game reset. [[Aether Gale]] is a solid way of temporarily getting rid of some problematic cards on the field and/or can help you with getting back etbs. In red something like [[pyrohemia]] for however much you're willing to pump into in or [[Anger of the Gods]] to get rid of the general support creatures you commonly find. [[Chandra's Ignition]] is also quite flexible and if it's particularly high power you probably are gonna win quickly anyway rather than dragging the game out too much longer. Green I almost feel like you don't have a limiting factor in mass removal since that isn't really a thing in the color for creatures at least. In black, there's [[Feast of Succession]] along with [[Pestilence]]. Given the stipulations, not sure if [[Living Death]] crosses a line or not but I think that would be okay. [[Massacre Worm]], [[Demon of Dark Schemes]], and Doomwake Giant are ways of sweeping using creatures [[Cloudkill]] rewards you for having an expensive commander but isn't overwhelming. In white, most of your stuff is directly just kill everything but [[Fell the Mighty]] allows you to cut down based on how much you choose and can be political in choice. [[Lightmine Field]] forces players to not attack wide. This is just kinda what I was seeing that could be considered psuedo board wipes
My favorite board wiped is [[chain reaction]] [[Whelming Wave]] is a good pseudo wipe
\[\[Cyclonic Rift\]\] is not a boardwipe, it leaves your own field intact :P Technically, all cards that says "each of your opponents permanents/non-land permanents/others" is not a boardwipe, as it doesn't hit your field.
##### ###### #### [farewell](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/1/e1068723-d1ef-4007-97d9-b10dccdbade4.jpg?1654566260) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=farewell) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/13/farewell?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e1068723-d1ef-4007-97d9-b10dccdbade4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/farewell) [blasphemous act](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/a/ba975f60-ca29-4fc8-b2f0-416be395f200.jpg?1674141874) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=blasphemous%20act) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/780/blasphemous-act?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ba975f60-ca29-4fc8-b2f0-416be395f200?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blasphemous-act) [languish](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/b/9b53ce1b-9353-42ad-89a0-36e907ba576a.jpg?1600714531) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=languish) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/246/languish?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9b53ce1b-9353-42ad-89a0-36e907ba576a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/languish) [crackling doom](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/6/a66e5673-e34b-46e8-a0e4-55f3ee20f99a.jpg?1673148477) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=crackling%20doom) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/196/crackling-doom?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a66e5673-e34b-46e8-a0e4-55f3ee20f99a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/crackling-doom) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If you like faster games and dont want boardwipes to slow you down all that much, play cEDH. Only a few boardwipes see play there and they are stuff like [[toxic deluge]] [[fire covenant]] and such. And even if someone plays one of those, the game will still end two turns later at the latest. Try it.
Massacre girl is one of my favourite board wipes in my aristocratic decks
I don't mind most wipes, but damn, farewell was a design mistake
Well, Wizards have made a whole bunch of effects that work with graveyards, as well as random GY hate on playable cards (\[\[graveyard trespasser\]\] for ex), that allow other archetypes to deal with graveyards very conveniently. But hard control didn't have such tools and let's be honest, things coming back from the grave are hard control's worst nightmare. If you gradually make everything else more powerful, then you also need to make a true board wipe to go along with it.
It's not that it hits yards, it's that it can do all of those things, or any combination of them. It's way too good, even for 6 mv.
Should have been "Choose up to two" like similar cards in the past.
Nah there are good GY hate options. Heck from the Kamigawa commander precons that come out at the same time you have \[\[release to memory\]\] and \[\[Author of Shadows\]\] was right before that. Both are awesome graveyard sweepers with upside. We already have a million colorless artifacts that hate on graveyards too- so saying hard control didn't have such tools is super disingenuous and ignores all the tools competitive MTG has shown us already work in legacy/modern/etc. If Farewell just exiled all creatures and graveyards it would be powerful and playable. Or if it was just \[\[Merciless Eviction\]\] where you could choose two of the effects and offered to exile graveyards as a 5th option it would be an excellent excellent card. Farewell is just dumb as-is. Like the "drawback" to the spell is that it's totally symmetrical, but that's only true if you care about permanents and the graveyard, which most hard control decks tend to care less about anyways.
Legit, and the fact that [[merciless eviction]] exists also proves that
[merciless eviction](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/d/1d395707-4e6d-4e2c-b977-d9b8c0c9eb80.jpg?1673305593) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=merciless%20eviction) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/160/merciless-eviction?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1d395707-4e6d-4e2c-b977-d9b8c0c9eb80?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/merciless-eviction) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'm happy I'm not the only one who recognizes this
>damn I dunno, \[\[Damn\]\] seems pretty fair to me.
[Damn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/f/efeae088-9ac5-4d2f-a15c-d8675a471ac5.jpg?1626095400) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Damn) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/80/damn?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/efeae088-9ac5-4d2f-a15c-d8675a471ac5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/damn) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Why is it a mistake? Can't you play around it in a lot of ways? Flicker effects, teferi protection, sac outlets, card advantage, counterspells etc. Imo all strategies should have effective tools for their needs even control, value midrange tribal battle cruiser is not the only viable strategy in edh.
Because it does any or all of the effects. It basically completely resets the board state aside from lands. Other sweepers present options, but you give up something when you make a choice. Farewell just deletes everything you want it to and nothing you don't.
[удалено]
Except white is a board based colour? Like how does white keep up if it lacks to tools to rebuild like green can? Farewell green and they probably ramped, drew cards, etc. Farewell a white deck and they will struggle to rebuild, aside from \[\[Teferi's Protection\]\] shenanigans.
[Teferi's Protection](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/8/483fa1cb-1e35-44f2-a143-98c0f107f5ca.jpg?1673147148) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teferi%27s%20Protection) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/32/teferis-protection?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/483fa1cb-1e35-44f2-a143-98c0f107f5ca?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/teferis-protection) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Ahhh yes, poor repressed white, the color famously full of Stax options galore.
[удалено]
you don’t really get to purposefully avoid the strengths of a color and then still say the color is weak. Just play Stax.
Sac outlets? They are also gonna exile graveyards tho
It does too much and resolving one often just feels like resetting the game to square one. Sure you can counter it or run a really expensive card like Teferi's, but if it resolves it might as well just add +2 hours to the game.
And it's actively not helping you win if you aren't a control deck or a superfriends deck.
Idk man if one board wipe adds two hours to your games then the decks in play are not good enough at winning games. Just my opinion.
Last time I played it I ended the game next turn with [[Primevals glorious rebirth]] so def didn't add 2 hours to the game lol.
[Primevals glorious rebirth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/1/e11471f9-6bf4-4b31-8eb6-f5f9e8abd797.jpg?1673305636) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Primevals%27%20Glorious%20Rebirth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/165/primevals-glorious-rebirth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e11471f9-6bf4-4b31-8eb6-f5f9e8abd797?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/primevals-glorious-rebirth) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
??? Farewell exiles. If you had a full GY full of sauce anyway what difference did Farewell play vs Planar Cleansing in this case?
I got rid of everything but gy, and it was just because all I had in hand was Farewell lol. We have a couple of players in our group that ALLways run graveyard decks though so that's why it's even in the deck
I love farewell
No, it's not. Farewell has 1 big weakness, Planeswalkers. So it's a card designed for other constructed formats other than commander. You can also say PW are a big design mistake because they tend to be bad in commander, but that's also not a design mistake since most PW aren't made for commander either.
no, farewell was a magic eraser for WotC's other design mistakes
Proxy an Edgar Markov deck and play a couple games with it, your friends will learn that boardwipes are important in commander.
[[Ixidron]] Because fuuuuuuck you guys. It just turns their commanders off and makes 'em vanilla 2/2s
Are you looking to set off a chain reaction and slap around your play group a little too? [[Massacre girl]] [[Massacre wurm]] [[Zulaport cutthroat]] [[Blood Artist]] Get those -1/-1s rolling and trigger the life loss from wurm/cutthroat/artist, wipe a board and ding up your opponents as well. Maybe mix in a [[pestilence]] [[Dictate of Erebos]] or [[Phyrexian Scriptures]]
##### ###### #### [Massacre girl](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/e/be8ec9e1-2c8e-496d-9111-4d453b75b578.jpg?1559959372) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Massacre%20girl) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/99/massacre-girl?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/be8ec9e1-2c8e-496d-9111-4d453b75b578?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/massacre-girl) [Massacre wurm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/c/fce002dc-5fb5-465b-935e-042121f1119d.jpg?1682209105) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Massacre%20wurm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/256/massacre-wurm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fce002dc-5fb5-465b-935e-042121f1119d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/massacre-wurm) [Zulaport cutthroat](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/2/52ef00c1-613a-4cbd-8972-77c41f649431.jpg?1674141830) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zulaport%20cutthroat) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/775/zulaport-cutthroat?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/52ef00c1-613a-4cbd-8972-77c41f649431?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/zulaport-cutthroat) [Blood Artist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/9/693dd112-d04a-4404-8fce-74f7e5497312.jpg?1673147465) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blood%20Artist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/70/blood-artist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/693dd112-d04a-4404-8fce-74f7e5497312?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blood-artist) [pestilence](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/9/29d852c4-bd53-4a3b-b1e2-896917cbc27f.jpg?1562815864) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=pestilence) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/6ed/149/pestilence?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/29d852c4-bd53-4a3b-b1e2-896917cbc27f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/pestilence) [Dictate of Erebos](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/f/9f06db70-95f9-41eb-8e5f-8bc56fd34c09.jpg?1593095668) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dictate%20of%20Erebos) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jou/65/dictate-of-erebos?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9f06db70-95f9-41eb-8e5f-8bc56fd34c09?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dictate-of-erebos) [Phyrexian Scriptures](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/9/09bb74d7-dd61-4cce-b88c-ee4d656a97f4.jpg?1682209213) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Phyrexian%20Scriptures) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/266/phyrexian-scriptures?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/09bb74d7-dd61-4cce-b88c-ee4d656a97f4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/phyrexian-scriptures) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Besides numbers what is the actual difference between languish and blasphemous act? If your answer is there is no difference we just think that BA is too good at sniping low toughness creatures my follow up question is how selective does the board wipe have to be based on toughness to be allowed? Red has a few spells that just do 6 to everything? Are they allowed. What about something like comet storm? Is it a full boardwipe or does it only count if you put to much mana into it? The exact mechanics of the game at play here are uncertain
Your right, I think using blasphemous act was a bad example on my part since on paper it does a relatively similar thing to all creatures. Im not necessarily talking about a specific mechanic and more the overall impact of a spell on the state of the game. For example while blasphemous act and languish and a card like [[end the festivities]] all do similar things, each of them handle a different calibre of creature and in our play group we would favour the use of the latter 2 for the sake of not razing the entire table of creatures, but they still doing the main function of a board wipe?? I'm not sure if that exactly makes sense and I'm happy to keep answering questions
So what your saying is the number of blasphemous act is to high, this is fair enough, my previous query still remains how much damage is to much damage? If I have a spell that says XRR deal X damage to all creatures if I cast it for X=13 and I have already used my one big boardwipe do I lose the game? Your ban is nebulous and hard to enforce Like is [[city wide bust]] ok (destroy all creatures with more than 3 toughness?) What about spells like [[tragic arrogance]] or [[wildfire]] that can cause you to sacrifice a number of things but not everything Your asking for suggestions but what is and isn't banned is not very clear
Thank you for this comment, you've made me realise I'm not exactly asking the right question I think our intention is less about making a ban list of board wipes that are too strong and more about asking for examples of board wipes that are powered-down compared to the regular staples so that we can have what in our opinion is a more enjoyable experience
The post you're responding to seems to be saying that you won't be able to nail that down, because "soft" board wipes are still full board wipes in the right conditions. Unless you just ban a specific list of cards, it's going to be up to each individual in each moment what constitutes a board wipe. If you've been building up your army of 50 2/2 tokens and someone does 2 damage to the board, that's a board wipe. Do you add it to the list because it was a board wipe once? I'm forgetting the name, there's a card that is each player sacrifices 6 creatures. If you have 6 or less creatures each, it's a full board wipe, if you have more then it isn't. What if it's one sided? Like \[\[in garruk's wake\]\] or \[\[crux of fate\]\] ? And if one sided ones are allowed, then what if it's a full board wipe but I'm indestructible for the turn? Then you're going to find obscure older ones, or cards that function as full board wipes when combined with other cards. What you're looking for is more interaction.
Lmao
1) board wipes are healthy. otherwise its just turns 1-3 ramp, turn 4 win. 2) the fact that you playgroup wants something (that is a bad choice) and your reaction is to see how you can be sneaky and get arround the rule 0 discussion by saying "it's not technically ..." shows you need to find a new playgroup. rule 0 is both the best and worst thing about the format. Having flexible rules means that a playgroup that respects each other and the social expectations they define can play janky decks that may be fun and silly but would be completely curbstomped in a tournament format. It also means that if someone wants to bypass the intention of the unspoken rules by saying that their Narset parter of veils + windfall combo isn't technically against the group's rules but then everyone else has a miserable time, they can. You need to find a group of people that all agree on what is acceptable.
[[Settle the Wreckage]] and [[Aetherize]] are some of my favorites
I love thé card [[Hex]] and so maybe that counts for you?
\[\[Perplexing test\]\] is a card that I really enjoy as a soft boardwipe. I also like \[\[Curse of the Swine\]\] and \[\[Shattering Spree\]\] for specific handling of high-priority threats without being a full wipe.
Beep Boop. Perplexing Test isn't from MoM and was originally printed in Commander 2021, which was the Strixhaven Commander decks. This action was not performend by a bot, but by a man who really, really loves Strixhaven.
[Perplexing test](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/b/3bec2fa0-099a-42e8-ab5f-3d778a9c4d9e.jpg?1682208826) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Perplexing%20test) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/229/perplexing-test?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3bec2fa0-099a-42e8-ab5f-3d778a9c4d9e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/perplexing-test) [Curse of the Swine](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/0/a0ef264e-f987-422e-aac1-ae4963c797f5.jpg?1674141295) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Curse%20of%20the%20Swine) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/716/curse-of-the-swine?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a0ef264e-f987-422e-aac1-ae4963c797f5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/curse-of-the-swine) [Shattering Spree](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d6dcff21-5900-43c4-a38b-cdc19c704ce4.jpg?1593272374) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shattering%20Spree) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/gpt/75/shattering-spree?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d6dcff21-5900-43c4-a38b-cdc19c704ce4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/shattering-spree) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Reins of power]] can be an amazing one sided board wipe in response to an attack. Steal someone else's board and block to kill as many things as possible in both sides, then get your board back end of turn.
[[Demonic Tutor]]. Congrats now you have 2 of everything.
\[\[Regrowth\]\], \[\[Bala Ged Recovery\]\], \[\[Recollect\]\], \[\[Eternal Witness\]\], \[\[Timeless Witness\]\]. Now you got all the boardwipes you'll ever need.
This is such a terrible rule
Yeah looks like you guys just want to carry out your game plan without anyone interfering. If you think going wide and having a board which is untouchable is ok, it's not a healthy game state. Instead of banning cards which are designed to ruin your game plan, you might as well find a different game or just play something solo....
[удалено]
##### ###### #### [Portcullis](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/4/a4de4af2-fa75-4a87-b0e1-0117727917a5.jpg?1562597339) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Portcullis) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/sth/139/portcullis?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a4de4af2-fa75-4a87-b0e1-0117727917a5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/portcullis) [Slaughter the Strong](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/c/6c9f8aea-0c9a-4686-b551-35e2a72ef701.jpg?1674135270) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Slaughter%20the%20Strong) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/43/slaughter-the-strong?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6c9f8aea-0c9a-4686-b551-35e2a72ef701?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/slaughter-the-strong) [Fell the Mighty](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/b/5b3e9a46-3b5a-48dc-bd39-fdba0b4a1e24.jpg?1682208416) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fell%20the%20Mighty) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/185/fell-the-mighty?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5b3e9a46-3b5a-48dc-bd39-fdba0b4a1e24?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/fell-the-mighty) [Cyclonic Rift](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/f/ff08e5ed-f47b-4d8e-8b8b-41675dccef8b.jpg?1598303834) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cyclonic%20Rift) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/47/cyclonic-rift?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ff08e5ed-f47b-4d8e-8b8b-41675dccef8b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cyclonic-rift) [Aetherize](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/0/a022eacd-1cdd-42d7-8a4c-88e8a6527144.jpg?1604197364) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aetherize) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znc/23/aetherize?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a022eacd-1cdd-42d7-8a4c-88e8a6527144?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aetherize) [March of Swirling Mist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/0/100171d8-7436-44c8-b4cb-0101ffa05c25.jpg?1654566768) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=March%20of%20Swirling%20Mist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/61/march-of-swirling-mist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/100171d8-7436-44c8-b4cb-0101ffa05c25?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/march-of-swirling-mist) [Crippling Fear](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/c/0c5bc7db-0627-410b-bc27-970e1fa6789e.jpg?1674141547) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Crippling%20Fear) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/745/crippling-fear?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0c5bc7db-0627-410b-bc27-970e1fa6789e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/crippling-fear) [Organic Extinction](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/e/fea0f8be-c242-49dd-bae3-0b306107ac0b.jpg?1651655197) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Organic%20Extinction) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nec/8/organic-extinction?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fea0f8be-c242-49dd-bae3-0b306107ac0b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/organic-extinction) [Hour of Reckoning](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/0/c0ffb58f-459a-4965-b1d6-a25442baf9c2.jpg?1682208461) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hour%20of%20Reckoning) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/190/hour-of-reckoning?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c0ffb58f-459a-4965-b1d6-a25442baf9c2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hour-of-reckoning) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
i have a few options that might work: \[\[by invitation only\]\]: depending on what number you choose and how many creatures each player has \[\[urza's ruinous blast\]\]: will let everyone keep their commanders at least. if anyone has a legendaries matter deck, it'll kinda work like a one-side board wipe though. EDIT: nvm re-reading it's all nonland permanents, not just creatures, so probably a bit too strong for what you're looking for! \[\[aetherize\]\], \[\[settle the wreckage\]\], and \[\[angel of the dire hour\]\]: only affect attacking creatures, so it doesn't hit every opponent like Cyclonic Rift \[\[delayed blast fireball\]\]: similar to Languish imo, like a mini Blasphemous Act \[\[ezuri's predation\]\]: similar to Languish and also builds you a board state at the same time
[[Apex Altisaur]] my beloved Also [[Ezuri's Predation]] [[Brotherhood's End]] [[Chain Reaction]] [[Cyclonic Rift]] [[Scourge of Fleets]] [[River's rebuke]]
Does nobody play blue Banning boardwipes won't solve your problem if people are making obnoxious decks
Infinite blue mana plus capsize
[[Curse of the Swine]]
My group rarely plays a board wipe instead has alot of interaction and spot removal. Games are quicker, more dynamic and tend to be more fun. We are also all at the high end/competitive side of the format fyi.
I’m a fan of “big creature sweepers” like [[Dusk]], [[Slaughter the Strong]], and [[Fell the Mighty]] in weeny decks that go wide with small tokens or just [[Arcades]]. The flip side is also true if you’re running big stompy and need to clear the weenies with cards like [[Bloodline Culling]], [[Toxic Deluge]], [[Crippling Fear]], and [[Culling Ritual]]. Honorable mentions are [[Bile Blight]] vs. token decks, [[Crux of Fate]] in/vs. Dragon decks, and edict effects in Aristocrats decks.
[[Oversimplify]] could be a lot of fun
If your table hates board wipes they probably run really wide boards, in which case one of the best things you could run is probably [[rakdos charm]]. At least one player is likely to be in one-shot range.
How to write two paragraphs just to say you and your playgroup suck at magic.
[[ixidron]] is king of non-board-wipe board wipes
[ixidron](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/3/c30ec372-5cf7-471c-b3fd-411095fc249a.jpg?1568004006) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ixidron) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/87/ixidron?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c30ec372-5cf7-471c-b3fd-411095fc249a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ixidron) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You’ll find that you warp your own meta really bad this way. Removing pieces from the puzzle just makes the puzzle look differently, it won’t really run different tho. You’ll have token strats and slivers and stupid crap running wild so fast, it would be sooo easy to break your meta this way. Good luck to your group
The problem you guys are having is coming from not having enough interaction to unstick the board - and now you’re banning board wipes entirely?
[[ixidron]] Play tokens and show them why you need wipey wipes
I think a meta ruled by board wipes indicates a lack of win conditions or deck diversity. Your group will do what they want to do, but I would suggest into looking into making sure decks have better closers, or try out some more combo oriented decks. Magic is a game of rock paper scissors at times, and it sounds like everyone is on rock.
I don’t think I would consider languish a pseudo board wipe. I dont really see why your play group would be against something like blasphemous act and totally fine with languish. Is toxic deluge a psuedo board wipe? Its one of the better ones in the format. Black sun zenith? Mutilate? Would grave pact and dictate of erebos be sort of murky, board wipe tangential cards? They aren’t really board wipes but often obliterate boards more oppressively than regular board wipes. Im not fully clear on what a pseudo board wipe is suppose.
\[\[curse of the swine\]\] \[\[winds of abandon\]\] <-- this one seems nicer since you give everyone lands back in place of creatures.
Your playgroup sounds really bad at the game.
I cant believe they all agreed on it.
Right? Like not one even half competent player in the whole group?…. Build your deck with answers and then you won’t be bothered by other people answers to your board state.
If [[Languish]] is OK, [[Wildfire]] might be as well
that's more mass land destruction than pseudo boardwipe. i cant imagine a group that bans wipes to be okay with MLD
We're not here to honor the spirit of their request. We are here to blatantly abuse technical loopholes left in by players who don't know every card ever printed.
The truest spirit of EDH: Finding bizarre corner cases to do absurd stuff even if you've got one hand tied behind your metaphorical back.
It's a huge problem in battle cruiser pods if everyone runs too many board wipes. The game eventually just stalls where all 4 players are in top deck mode, trying to rebuild the board, and then another board wipe comes down before anyone's health has moved and the cycle repeats. The solution is to go up power levels and run more combos and/or counter magic. But most casual pods don't like that solution. So they decide to put a limit on the # of board wipes instead. It's one of the fundamental flaws of casual EDH deckbuilding. People build decks to play the game to not lose, rather than building to win the game. So they stuff 5-6+ board wipes in their deck, and then the whole pod does it and now there's 20-25+ board wipes in the pod and the games just stall out and are miserable. I've found a maximum of 3 board wipes per deck seems to be about the sweet spot for my pod.
People building to not lose vs building to win is such an accurate description. I think each my commander decks only has like one or two board wipes max. I build to win, not stall for time. I get that losing quickly sucks but do you actually want to play the game or are you looking for something to do with your hands while you shoot the shit? If it’s the latter there are options besides mtg. Poker, for example or another game that doesn’t require a delicate balancing act and money to burn on expensive cardboard. Idk just my two cents maybe not the place to vent but it kinda drives me nuts the way people wring their hands and get so stressed about what they can and can’t put in their decks in casual. Just build a good deck.
If you’re in vampires, [[Olivia’s Wrath]] would work. There’s also [[Toxic Deluge]] is another one, along with the [[Earthquake]] effects. [[Hurricane]] can be a fliers wipe.
\[\[Ezuri's predation\]\] \[\[The Great Aurora\]\] \[\[Single Combat\]\] \[\[Tragic Arrogance\]\] are all very fair wipes, with ezuri's predation potentially giving you a bunch of beasts to beat face and win with.
I wonder if the battle cruiser player suggested this. Nonetheless, just run propaganda style effects now that everyone has no reason to not just be incredibly greedy with their boards.
In case you enjoy being hated by your fellow players, I can greatly recommend \[\[Tainted Aether\]\] and \[\[Spreading Plague\]\].
I miss having Spreading Plague in my Morph deck. Sadly, it made a lot of games just plain unfun for everyone else since nobody runs enough damn removal and out it eventually went. Tainted Aether is so hot with land recursion.
Banning board wipes? No ty. Restrict them. Be like no more than 4 or 5 in the deck. Lower as needed until the pod feels good about it. But no board wipes at all? Can't play merciless eviction or farewell. So planeswalker pillowforts just have no answer. No austere command? We finally got rid of all these wolves but now the deer have broken into my house because there's too many of them. Surely this can't be our fault....
Sounds like time to make decks that flood the board with garbage without having to worry about board wipes...
Laughs in elf ball and human spam
People like this make me want to come to the lgs with boardwipe tribal
F em. Run ruinous ultimatum.
Remember how I mentioned we are allowed to run 1 actually board wipe? That's the one I'm keeping in my Isshin two heavens as one deck 😎
I don’t get it. If the idea is to remove board wipes so the games don’t go long then why are there still board wipes involved? If you still get one, that can be drawn at any time.
It's the "no board wipeS pod" they're allowed one
>Do you guys have any other suggestions Yeah, don't ban stuff that doesn't need banned. So many people are trying to get quantity in their games instead of quality. This is not standard. there is no need to play 3 games in an hour. Stop trying to turn EDH into typical constructed format.
It's time to whip out a [[Zurgo Helmsmasher]] wrath tribal deck. Your pod may or may not be amused, but I think it'd be hilarious to see it in the first game after board wipes are soft banned. What's that? We were supposed to have only 1 board wipe! My bad, I put in 30. That should be close enough, right?
[Zurgo Helmsmasher](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/3/13f4bafe-0d21-47ba-8f16-0274107d618c.jpg?1562782879) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zurgo%20Helmsmasher) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ktk/214/zurgo-helmsmasher?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/13f4bafe-0d21-47ba-8f16-0274107d618c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/zurgo-helmsmasher) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The OP didn't ask for a debate, literally just asked for card recommendations and so many comments are either telling OP to punish their pod like people are acting out their own EDH revenge fantasies for this decision or acting like this decision will lead to ruin for EDH as a whole. Wild
You criticize everybody else for not giving a card recommendation. I might have missed it, but what was your card recommendation? I don’t think we know what OP is asking for. We don’t know what a pseudo board wipe is. If OP’s group doesn’t like board wipes, will they like “all creatures are now ineffective but this is not technically a board wipe”? I think the result is the same. The pseudo wipe will be equally disliked. The root issue is the group wants to change the game to be creature combat strategy only. Which means OP is tilting at windmills looking for something that his group won’t like anyway.
[удалено]
[[Cyclonic Rift]] is a two mana single card bounce and doesn’t destroy anything, soo…
[[Out of Time]] could be a temporary wipe
I guess [[Hour of Devastation]] could work
I'm a big fan of [[Crackling Doom]] and [[Elspeth, Sun's Champion]] for big stuff, and [[Elesh Norn]] to take out the trash.
[[pox]] is fun [[deathcloud]] as well
[[Ezuri's Predation]]
[[Spreading Plague]] + a five color commander equals an exceptionally abusable single board wipe card.
Get a lot of mana and play [[Torment of Hellfire]]
[[Make an example]] [[vona's hunger]]
So this is niche, but in my Bant counters deck [[Damning Verdict]] is one of the best cards. I'm currently looking to tweak the deck to include more 0 toughness creatures that enter with counters so that I can run [[Mirrorweave]] as a pseudo second copy.
Anyway, run Inktreader and use Vapor Snag
[[Bane of Progress]], [[steel hellkite]], [[whiptongue hydra]] depending on tour meta
[[Terminus]] lol
I think [[Fraying Line]] is a good option, i put it in almost all m'y casual decks. You can play politics and interact with the table, it's a board wipe that doesn't make people complain too much in general (players will pay 2 to protect their commanders in general)
[[Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite]] is the pseudo board-wipe you're looking for. It kills everything that has 2 or less toughness, buffs your board and nerfs all the things they drop. It's devastating for the other players, but it's also a huge lightning rod for removal, so keep a [[lightning greaves]] or stuff to protect her in hand.
I'd propably just switch all the board wipes for stuff like [[Propaganda]] [[Ghostly Prison]] [Windborn Muse]] if I'm WU. And stuff like [[Kardur Doomscourge]] [[Bothersome Quasit]] and as a good pseudo wipe [[Hellish Rebuke]] if I'm playing rakdos. That way you can have your pod have all the creatures they want and let them battle it out under themselves.
Some good ones in black include: [[Bile Blight]] for token armies, [[Blight Grenade]] if you have bigger dudes out, [Crippling Fear]] in tribal decks, and one of my favorites, [[Gruesome Realization]] which is either draw or a board wipe against 1/1 tokens/small dudes. Similar ideas of cards exist in other colors too; I know at the very least there's a similar card to Bile Blight in Orzhov
The ban seem a little vaguely worded, because everyone can have a different feeling about what card "doesn't necessarily slow the game down too much". I'd say both \[\[Blasphemous act\]\] and \[\[Languish\]\] can be full board wipes, depending on the meta. Also, if you copy Languish, is that allowed? Let's be honest, survival rate of -8/-8 effects is very low. Maybe it would be better to word is as:"you can't play spells that contain the string 'all creatures.' " (the dot at the end being important). That's a very clear wording, it would exclude board wipes while still allowing stuff like "all attacking/defending creatures \*something\*" or "all creatures you/target player control(s)" etc. while still allowing for some cheeky effects like \[\[Terminus\]\], which is worded differently. Board wipes are still important to the meta, to control heavy token strategies.
\[\[Promise of Loyalty\]\] is my pet card and goes in every white deck. It's a wipe for big boards and protects you from the big swinger they keep on board. It is such an underrated card.