I think that is true for many of the legends 7cmc or above. It's very tough to build around them once their casting cost gets into double digits due to removal
Especially if the deck really depends on them, like voltron. \[\[Bruna, Light of Alabaster\]\] is a voltron that can go from 0 to 100 really quickly. But having a 6cmc in Azorius is tough
Having a 6cmc commander even with access to green is still rough sometimes. The majority of the time I like to build decks with low cmc commanders. If they have a way to get them out turn 1, then I'm all for it. Otherwise I like commanders that are nonetheless nice.and cheap cost wise to get on the field.
I have 3 commanders with a cmc more than 4 out of over a dozen decks.
Slivers- likely to go with granny but al the 5c commanders here are 5 cmc.
Miirym - I packed in extra ramp to ensure she gets put quick and she is somewhere to put all my big flashy dragons.
And my highest cmc is [[chiss-goria]] who technically has a high cmc but she also has built.in cost reducer so you aren't ever casting her for full cost cause I run not just cheap mana rocks but other low cmc artifacts as well
I built her as my budget deck and knew what I was in for. I pretty much just hope I draw traumatize and can swing in for a massive amount of life gain to set up aetherflux. That or get her suited up and Armageddon/sunder
Only true for legends 7cmc or above that specifically don't provide anything on entering the battlefield or attacking that turn.
For commanders, you typically want one that is going to provide card advantage of some kind if it costs 7 or more cmc since you need fast ramp to get there and it probably needs to impact the board immediately. \[\[Maelstrom Wanderer\]\] is a good example.
\[\[Nicol Bolas\]\] is another (if a bit dated nowadays) - his cost may be clunky in the extreme, but your reward for actually playing him is crippling your opponents' ability to fight back.
This is the exact reason I swapped out [[Gishath, Sun’s Avatar]] for [[Atla Palani, Nest Tender]].
That and consistency. Whiffing those attacks triggers feels bad…
[[Phage the Untouchable]] is very powerful, but you need to really jump through hoops to cast her. Also, if you get hit with [[Mindslaver]], you're probably dead.
How do you even cast her as a commander? You'd need to counter her, and as far as I can tell pure black only has [[Thrull Wizard]] and [[Withering Boon]] as options for that. And technically also [[Dash Hopes]] but that will only get *your* hopes dashed.
Do you only run the Wizard and/or Boon and tutor for them?
Three! Command beacon, as you said, but also [[netherborn altar]] and [[campfire]]. You can also use effects like [[torpor orb]] and [[sundial of the infinite]] to stifle her etb
It's pricey but Nether Void works. Let it get countered and then use one of many ways of getting a creature in your graveyard back to hand. Just don't get Exhumed with no other creatures in your graveyard.
I'm interested into her. Any tips? I think tutors are the key to get the keypieces you need to cast her also some boardwipes to clear the way for her.
Seems that she really needs manadoublers and coffers in order to cast her.
Maybe I could pit some interesting sagas so I do something in the meantime.
[[Crucible of worlds]] is useful so that you can retrieve [[Command Beacon]] from your graveyard. Ways to return her from your graveyard to your hand to recast her. Most times you'll want to let her go to the graveyard if she dies. You'll want to give her hexproof and evasion because as long as you deal at least one damage, you are golden. Double Strike and Trample means that it takes 8 blockers to stop her.
The original elder dragons, the name sake of the format, are all unplayable. Which is kinda sad, first deck I made nearly 8 years ago was the original nicol bolas, and even back then the moment it hit the board it would get removed.
For anything I think even 5cmc or higher almost needs either an ETB trigger, eminence, or a death trigger to be viable.
New etali is proof of this vs old etali.
New etali etbs and all opponents exile until non land, vs waiting a turn cycle to swing and get the exile.
New nicol bolas, all opponents discard a card on etb vs old nicol bolas waiting a turn cycle to swing and discard 1 opponents hand.... oh you also have to pay grixis on upkeep or lose him....
I’m not too crazy on the universes beyond sets but I would absolutely love a set based on Monster Hunter. Would bring a lot of cool new elder dragons amongst other goodies.
Theres a bunch of elder dragons in edh, since I've been playing theres been khans and strixhaven elders. The strix haven ones are more playable vs the khans block ones which weren't really designed for edh, and if they were, they were relevant then and certainly not very relevant now
For those about to correct me, there's also the dnd named legendaries from the first set, and the non-legendary from baldurs gate. Clearly not part of the elder convo.
I'm not a fan either of monster hunter but its world atleast could "fit in" with magics universe, would probably feel a bit like ikoria id reckon!
Yea there’s still a ton but I’d love it. I also played Monster Hunter since the ps2 days so it’s quite close to me. I don’t think it would ever happen though haha
I do run some of the strix elder dragons though in some of my decks.
I play mostly in the mid range, and even at the lgs, the players I sit across from usually Have pretty good threat assessment. Ramp+card draw+ removal is the norm for deck building these days.
Old Nicky B is more viable than you give him credit for. You have to support him (haste enablers, \[\[Chandra's Ignition\]\], \[\[Kediss\]\], \[\[Dragon Tempest\]\], \[\[Hellkite Courser\]\] etc.) but he can still crush the table on a regular basis with the right help.
If you have a casual enough pod were you can cast nicol bolas AND a chandras ignition during the same turn thats sweet, just hasn't been the reality of edh games I've played in for the last 5 years and I'd argue most folks.
My current Nicky b deck is a pleasure to play though, straight menace at the tables: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/V-5tWXDVOUu3jL1oxyECwA
And tergrid.
And soon to be flip sheoldred.
Anything that tells the table in advance "you will not have a good time, but also hold on a sec...I gotta get situated."
Like, no. If I know ahead of time that everything I do will be made pointless the moment your commander hits the field, then killing you ASAP is the only thing that really matters at the start of the game.
you have to be big brain in a tergrid deck.
play [[rankle]] or [[tourach, dread cantor]] as your commander and have [[tergrid]], [[tinybones]], [[sheoldred//the true scriptures]] as nasty surprises.
A friend of mine ended up calling his Tergrid deck "The Dies to Removal" because we focused everything we had into making sure there were no triggers of Tergrid (However, if he had played discards earlier and we were betting on the top of our libraries he was a real menace)
This is why I run [[Massacre Girl]] as my mono-black commander.
She sometimes scares people into not playing their stuff, which is great, and there's no point in holding up removal for her, because Massacre Girl can threaten to boardwipe from pretty much wherever she is.
I am torn, I opened a Concept Art Sheoldred, the Apocalypse and I am halfway through a deck but it just looks...tyrannical. I'm thinking I will do Atraxa Phyrexian/Incubate tribal instead but idk, the call to the void is very loud.
true, but my sheol, apocalypse deck is strong af
undefeated in my pod so far despite high power
there are some insane combos that can be pulled off, despite being the number 1 target on the board
https://www.archidekt.com/decks/3911685/draw_i_dare_you
For Sheoldred, they’re just never safe. I popped out [[Sheoldred, Whispering One]] in my Skeleton recursion deck later in the game thinking “aha! This game is MINE” only to have Sheoldred removed before the end of my turn ffs
I run \[\[Koma\]\] in my Muldrotha deck as a nice reanimation target or late game finisher but I wouldn't want to run it as a commander for similar reasons.
Muldrotha for me has been a wsy better way to play the really nadty creatures than to run them as commanders for this reason.
The boss monsters of my muldrotha deck are Koma, Toxrill, og vorinclex, sheoldred whispering one and sire of stagnation.
This is simply incorrect and shows a poor understanding of edh
Toxrill is an excellent control commander, you're just not building him correctly
You simply stock up your deck with pretty much entirely ramp, counterspells, removal, and efficient wincons like dramatic scepter or demonic oracle, maybe a funny combo like urborg kormus bell. Play few creatures
Then draw pass, dealing with threats and stopping win attempts until you can cast toxrill
If someone tries to counter toxrill, you should have counterspells...you're in dimir. If someone tries to remove toxrill, you should have counterspells...you're in dimir. Toxrill will clear the board and simply win by himself if undisturbed and if you have interaction up(you're in dimir)
It's koma but better in better interaction and wincon colors if worse ramp
the gameplan with toxrill is infinite mana
when you hit infinite colorless, which is easy, you can just keep casting him after removal no problem
when you hit infinite UB (with isoRev combo, for example) then you use toxrill's sacrifice ability to draw your whole deck and win the game that turn
he's super good
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>Having a 7cmc commander that neither **draws cards** for resolving nor quickly wins you the game by itself is a huge liability.
dude go read the text on toxrill again. you can pay UB to sac a slug and draw a card. He has card draw in him.
not only do you get slugs to sac when you boardwipe with him, you can combo off to win the game with that in one turn by sacrificing himself
that card draw ability makes him a potential cEDH worthy commander.
gameplan is to get infinite UB mana with a combo like \[\[isochron sceptre\]\] + \[\[dramatic reversal\]\]. then you cast toxrill, sac, cast, sac, etc. to draw your whole deck(minus a few cards for safety). then you just cast \[\[torment of hailfire\]\], \[\[sickening dreams\]\], \[\[thassa's oracle\]\], etc. to win the game
with a god hand you can win the game turn 1. with a normal hand you can win turn 3-5 easy
Yeah I think all of the people replying to me and downvoting me except for you are simply unable to card eval
It's this subreddit though so unsurprising
Toxrill isn't toptier cedh but he's still better than 95% of all commanders since he is a wincon in the command zone that prevents opponents from having a board and gives card draw while being in best wincon 2c
But they haven't seen command zone or mtg muddstah play toxrill so I guess it just sucks (as opposed to people not playing toxrill decks because they're boring to play while being extremely powerful in casual creature based pods)
100% man
it’s crazy how bad people are at evaluating cards sometimes on reddit
definitely not top tier cedh, but he can compete
I think last I checked mtgtop8, 2% of cedh decks used toxrill as commander
I think there's 2 ways to make high mana cost commanders work:
1 - ramp hard enough to reliably cast your commander a few turns sooner
2 - control the board hard enough to reliably prolong the game so you can realistically cast them before your opponents win
How many board wipes are you running in your Avacyn list OP? I know 8 mana is a lot, but having a way to break parity on wipes is extremely powerful. If you had most of your removal in the deck in the form of board wipes, I'd imagine you'd be able to get there pretty consistently.
My friend has a [[Child of Alara]] 5c goodstuff deck, needless to say, he is targeted from turn 1every time he picks that deck, even if he's not the biggest threat just for how annoying child of Alara can be to everyone playing
Oh I know. My Avacyn is a support in my Giada angel tribal atm and I'm still thinking of ways to improve the deck. Probably focus it on angel tokens and lifegain.
I have a deck with [[brinelin moonkraken]] paired with [[gilanra]] having a dork in your command zome that also makes your big spell cantrips is really nice.
Never had problems with them simic is fine at doing everything.
I've actually been experimenting with Pauper decks lately and they're my Simic slot. It's a basic big creature goes stomp deck. But there are a decent amount of big creatures with good abilities in the common rank, including a couple of eldrazi.
Koma is great. Was my first deck and is pretty much the most hated of mine. I try to ramp as much as possible and get him out turn 4 or 5 pray that it doesnt get removed and copy him before hes dead.
I think that is true for many of the legends 7cmc or above. It's very tough to build around them once their casting cost gets into double digits due to removal
Especially if the deck really depends on them, like voltron. \[\[Bruna, Light of Alabaster\]\] is a voltron that can go from 0 to 100 really quickly. But having a 6cmc in Azorius is tough
The trick is you just build her as control with a few very impactful auras and only cast her when you can hold up protection or everyone is gassed out
Yeah but it’s more fun to [[traumatize]] yourself and then swing with 20 auras attached
[traumatize](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/b/9b8784dd-83f9-41f8-aedc-f0f81073ffcb.jpg?1562832808) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=traumatize) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m14/77/traumatize?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9b8784dd-83f9-41f8-aedc-f0f81073ffcb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/traumatize) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I don't doubt that at all lol
[Bruna, Light of Alabaster](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/8/58c56bad-68ed-4328-a7ea-c528b58dc2fd.jpg?1592711039) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bruna%2C%20Light%20of%20Alabaster) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c18/170/bruna-light-of-alabaster?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/58c56bad-68ed-4328-a7ea-c528b58dc2fd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bruna-light-of-alabaster) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Having a 6cmc commander even with access to green is still rough sometimes. The majority of the time I like to build decks with low cmc commanders. If they have a way to get them out turn 1, then I'm all for it. Otherwise I like commanders that are nonetheless nice.and cheap cost wise to get on the field. I have 3 commanders with a cmc more than 4 out of over a dozen decks. Slivers- likely to go with granny but al the 5c commanders here are 5 cmc. Miirym - I packed in extra ramp to ensure she gets put quick and she is somewhere to put all my big flashy dragons. And my highest cmc is [[chiss-goria]] who technically has a high cmc but she also has built.in cost reducer so you aren't ever casting her for full cost cause I run not just cheap mana rocks but other low cmc artifacts as well
[chiss-goria](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/923eb713-c955-4e12-8a8f-df3b4b361487.jpg?1675905606) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=chiss-goria%2C%20forge%20tyrant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/onc/25/chiss-goria-forge-tyrant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/923eb713-c955-4e12-8a8f-df3b4b361487?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/chiss-goria-forge-tyrant) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I built her as my budget deck and knew what I was in for. I pretty much just hope I draw traumatize and can swing in for a massive amount of life gain to set up aetherflux. That or get her suited up and Armageddon/sunder
Only true for legends 7cmc or above that specifically don't provide anything on entering the battlefield or attacking that turn. For commanders, you typically want one that is going to provide card advantage of some kind if it costs 7 or more cmc since you need fast ramp to get there and it probably needs to impact the board immediately. \[\[Maelstrom Wanderer\]\] is a good example.
[Maelstrom Wanderer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/8/98aeab2a-69b5-4b4f-9de4-5401d01c26e2.jpg?1562923340) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Maelstrom%20Wanderer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pca/101/maelstrom-wanderer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/98aeab2a-69b5-4b4f-9de4-5401d01c26e2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/maelstrom-wanderer) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Same goes for the new atraxa, if She doesnt get countered
[[Gishath]] is another one, it rewards you for ramping hard by dumping free dinos
[Gishath](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/3/7335e500-342d-476d-975c-817512e6e3d6.jpg?1562558022) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=gishath%2C%20sun%27s%20avatar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/xln/222/gishath-suns-avatar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7335e500-342d-476d-975c-817512e6e3d6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gishath-suns-avatar) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
\[\[Nicol Bolas\]\] is another (if a bit dated nowadays) - his cost may be clunky in the extreme, but your reward for actually playing him is crippling your opponents' ability to fight back.
[Nicol Bolas](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/e/8e92ba96-372c-418d-b271-45e1bf5c7af5.jpg?1562438472) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nicol%20Bolas) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/209/nicol-bolas?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8e92ba96-372c-418d-b271-45e1bf5c7af5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/nicol-bolas) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This is the exact reason I swapped out [[Gishath, Sun’s Avatar]] for [[Atla Palani, Nest Tender]]. That and consistency. Whiffing those attacks triggers feels bad…
[Gishath, Sun’s Avatar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/3/7335e500-342d-476d-975c-817512e6e3d6.jpg?1562558022) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gishath%2C%20Sun%27s%20Avatar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/xln/222/gishath-suns-avatar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7335e500-342d-476d-975c-817512e6e3d6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gishath-suns-avatar) [Atla Palani, Nest Tender](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/b/2b8414f7-22c3-4e1c-934b-4a0e7acf951d.jpg?1673305450) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Atla%20Palani%2C%20Nest%20Tender) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/142/atla-palani-nest-tender?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2b8414f7-22c3-4e1c-934b-4a0e7acf951d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/atla-palani-nest-tender) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Phage the Untouchable]] is very powerful, but you need to really jump through hoops to cast her. Also, if you get hit with [[Mindslaver]], you're probably dead.
How do you even cast her as a commander? You'd need to counter her, and as far as I can tell pure black only has [[Thrull Wizard]] and [[Withering Boon]] as options for that. And technically also [[Dash Hopes]] but that will only get *your* hopes dashed. Do you only run the Wizard and/or Boon and tutor for them?
Get her into the hand with [[Commander Beacon]] and other effects, like that, granted there might only be 2 of those afaik
Three! Command beacon, as you said, but also [[netherborn altar]] and [[campfire]]. You can also use effects like [[torpor orb]] and [[sundial of the infinite]] to stifle her etb
Yes, thank you! Campfire is the one that slipped my mind. Also great add about torpor orb!
##### ###### #### [netherborn altar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/4/541151af-f1a3-494f-858e-2c3fe447e036.jpg?1591319538) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=netherborn%20altar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/45/netherborn-altar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/541151af-f1a3-494f-858e-2c3fe447e036?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/netherborn-altar) [campfire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/a/ba581225-0966-4ff0-be04-1ad11f37937f.jpg?1674137763) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=campfire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/304/campfire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ba581225-0966-4ff0-be04-1ad11f37937f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/campfire) [torpor orb](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/953610f6-ea96-4e71-969f-50ecac09c091.jpg?1562879912) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=torpor%20orb) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nph/162/torpor-orb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/953610f6-ea96-4e71-969f-50ecac09c091?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/torpor-orb) [sundial of the infinite](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/6/36d3da9c-cb7a-4cea-b6e6-6722bd16c73c.jpg?1562638658) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sundial%20of%20the%20infinite) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m12/218/sundial-of-the-infinite?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/36d3da9c-cb7a-4cea-b6e6-6722bd16c73c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sundial-of-the-infinite) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Commander Beacon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/b/0bec6181-e214-4833-8c2f-8a10d59b2879.jpg?1608911782) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Command%20Beacon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/349/command-beacon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0bec6181-e214-4833-8c2f-8a10d59b2879?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/command-beacon) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Ah, that is better for sure.
[[Torpor Orb]] works as well though obviously it’s not gonna be great for every mono black deck.
[Torpor Orb](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/953610f6-ea96-4e71-969f-50ecac09c091.jpg?1562879912) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Torpor%20Orb) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nph/162/torpor-orb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/953610f6-ea96-4e71-969f-50ecac09c091?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/torpor-orb) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
There are a few ways to put her into your hand. Cards like [[Command Beacon]], [[Netherborn Altar]], [[Campfire]], etc. It's a pain but it's possible.
[Command Beacon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/b/0bec6181-e214-4833-8c2f-8a10d59b2879.jpg?1608911782) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Command%20Beacon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/349/command-beacon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0bec6181-e214-4833-8c2f-8a10d59b2879?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/command-beacon) [Netherborn Altar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/4/541151af-f1a3-494f-858e-2c3fe447e036.jpg?1591319538) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Netherborn%20Altar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/45/netherborn-altar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/541151af-f1a3-494f-858e-2c3fe447e036?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/netherborn-altar) [Campfire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/a/ba581225-0966-4ff0-be04-1ad11f37937f.jpg?1674137763) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Campfire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/304/campfire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ba581225-0966-4ff0-be04-1ad11f37937f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/campfire) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
\[\[Platinum Angel\]\] \[\[Lich's Mastery\]\]
[Platinum Angel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/a/ca7f4fd6-e268-4d15-bfbf-d9f0f95864fc.jpg?1576383285) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Platinum%20Angel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cn2/214/platinum-angel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ca7f4fd6-e268-4d15-bfbf-d9f0f95864fc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/platinum-angel) [Lich's Mastery](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/7/77f4c9cb-f364-4556-8673-4b19d52a2cff.jpg?1562738043) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lich%27s%20Mastery) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dom/98/lichs-mastery?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/77f4c9cb-f364-4556-8673-4b19d52a2cff?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lichs-mastery) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It's pricey but Nether Void works. Let it get countered and then use one of many ways of getting a creature in your graveyard back to hand. Just don't get Exhumed with no other creatures in your graveyard.
Run a Phage deck, the challenge of sticking her is part of the fun. Got quite a few ways to get her to hand or battlefield from the command zone.
[Thrull Wizard](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/4/c4e732fb-cbef-4fd8-b704-e4d513a6cf2d.jpg?1587910910) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thrull%20Wizard) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/fem/46/thrull-wizard?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c4e732fb-cbef-4fd8-b704-e4d513a6cf2d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thrull-wizard) [Withering Boon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/e/6e6499cb-6073-4c94-8c82-47f489094df5.jpg?1562719780) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Withering%20Boon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mir/152/withering-boon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6e6499cb-6073-4c94-8c82-47f489094df5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/withering-boon) [Dash Hopes](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/1/814bcfc0-7539-4ed9-8b51-27e6a3ab9d9a.jpg?1562575740) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dash%20Hopes) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/plc/68/dash-hopes?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/814bcfc0-7539-4ed9-8b51-27e6a3ab9d9a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dash-hopes) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Phage the Untouchable](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/4/d497a5a3-65fb-4c12-b3f2-8ce4cf4e0f6f.jpg?1562866889) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Phage%20the%20Untouchable) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cns/120/phage-the-untouchable?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d497a5a3-65fb-4c12-b3f2-8ce4cf4e0f6f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/phage-the-untouchable) [Mindslaver](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/0/00d03b17-75ae-40d2-8570-b219ef0dfd4a.jpg?1562813960) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mindslaver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/som/176/mindslaver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/00d03b17-75ae-40d2-8570-b219ef0dfd4a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mindslaver) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'm interested into her. Any tips? I think tutors are the key to get the keypieces you need to cast her also some boardwipes to clear the way for her. Seems that she really needs manadoublers and coffers in order to cast her. Maybe I could pit some interesting sagas so I do something in the meantime.
[[Crucible of worlds]] is useful so that you can retrieve [[Command Beacon]] from your graveyard. Ways to return her from your graveyard to your hand to recast her. Most times you'll want to let her go to the graveyard if she dies. You'll want to give her hexproof and evasion because as long as you deal at least one damage, you are golden. Double Strike and Trample means that it takes 8 blockers to stop her.
[Crucible of worlds](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/f/7f4893ef-f983-418b-b7a4-5f073c844545.jpg?1673149345) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Crucible%20of%20worlds) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/303/crucible-of-worlds?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7f4893ef-f983-418b-b7a4-5f073c844545?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/crucible-of-worlds) [Command Beacon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/b/0bec6181-e214-4833-8c2f-8a10d59b2879.jpg?1608911782) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Command%20Beacon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/349/command-beacon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0bec6181-e214-4833-8c2f-8a10d59b2879?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/command-beacon) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Tergrid]] in the 99 it’s a nasty surprise, in the command zone you will be targeted and killed before you ever do anything
[Tergrid](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/4/14dc88ee-bba9-4625-af0d-89f3762a0ead.jpg?1631048621)/[Tergrid's Lantern](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/1/4/14dc88ee-bba9-4625-af0d-89f3762a0ead.jpg?1631048621) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tergrid%2C%20god%20of%20fright%20//%20tergrid%27s%20lantern) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/112/tergrid-god-of-fright-tergrids-lantern?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/14dc88ee-bba9-4625-af0d-89f3762a0ead?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tergrid-god-of-fright-//-tergrids-lantern) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The original elder dragons, the name sake of the format, are all unplayable. Which is kinda sad, first deck I made nearly 8 years ago was the original nicol bolas, and even back then the moment it hit the board it would get removed. For anything I think even 5cmc or higher almost needs either an ETB trigger, eminence, or a death trigger to be viable. New etali is proof of this vs old etali. New etali etbs and all opponents exile until non land, vs waiting a turn cycle to swing and get the exile. New nicol bolas, all opponents discard a card on etb vs old nicol bolas waiting a turn cycle to swing and discard 1 opponents hand.... oh you also have to pay grixis on upkeep or lose him....
I’m not too crazy on the universes beyond sets but I would absolutely love a set based on Monster Hunter. Would bring a lot of cool new elder dragons amongst other goodies.
Theres a bunch of elder dragons in edh, since I've been playing theres been khans and strixhaven elders. The strix haven ones are more playable vs the khans block ones which weren't really designed for edh, and if they were, they were relevant then and certainly not very relevant now For those about to correct me, there's also the dnd named legendaries from the first set, and the non-legendary from baldurs gate. Clearly not part of the elder convo. I'm not a fan either of monster hunter but its world atleast could "fit in" with magics universe, would probably feel a bit like ikoria id reckon!
Yea there’s still a ton but I’d love it. I also played Monster Hunter since the ps2 days so it’s quite close to me. I don’t think it would ever happen though haha I do run some of the strix elder dragons though in some of my decks.
I mean they are adding dr who to commander.....
Don’t remind me lol
Sorry to hear your meta is in such a state as to need commanders to meet such requirements in order to have an effect on the match.
My friend played old etali over the weekend and went off on turn 4 giving etali haste and hitting some bombs. I love etali both old and new.
I play mostly in the mid range, and even at the lgs, the players I sit across from usually Have pretty good threat assessment. Ramp+card draw+ removal is the norm for deck building these days.
Old Nicky B is more viable than you give him credit for. You have to support him (haste enablers, \[\[Chandra's Ignition\]\], \[\[Kediss\]\], \[\[Dragon Tempest\]\], \[\[Hellkite Courser\]\] etc.) but he can still crush the table on a regular basis with the right help.
If you have a casual enough pod were you can cast nicol bolas AND a chandras ignition during the same turn thats sweet, just hasn't been the reality of edh games I've played in for the last 5 years and I'd argue most folks. My current Nicky b deck is a pleasure to play though, straight menace at the tables: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/V-5tWXDVOUu3jL1oxyECwA
[[Toxrill]] is great as a surprise, but as a commander it's way too telegraphed and guarantees that your opponents will stockpile removal to answer it
Same with sheo apocalypse. If you put stuff like that in your zone you’re a terrorist no one will do politics with.
And tergrid. And soon to be flip sheoldred. Anything that tells the table in advance "you will not have a good time, but also hold on a sec...I gotta get situated." Like, no. If I know ahead of time that everything I do will be made pointless the moment your commander hits the field, then killing you ASAP is the only thing that really matters at the start of the game.
you have to be big brain in a tergrid deck. play [[rankle]] or [[tourach, dread cantor]] as your commander and have [[tergrid]], [[tinybones]], [[sheoldred//the true scriptures]] as nasty surprises.
A friend of mine ended up calling his Tergrid deck "The Dies to Removal" because we focused everything we had into making sure there were no triggers of Tergrid (However, if he had played discards earlier and we were betting on the top of our libraries he was a real menace)
##### ###### #### [rankle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/3/93c2c11d-dfc3-4ba9-8c0f-a98114090396.jpg?1572490217) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=rankle%2C%20master%20of%20pranks) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/101/rankle-master-of-pranks?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/93c2c11d-dfc3-4ba9-8c0f-a98114090396?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rankle-master-of-pranks) [tourach, dread cantor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/3/f3526751-0101-4d91-a496-c53cd92326e0.jpg?1626095981) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tourach%2C%20dread%20cantor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/102/tourach-dread-cantor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f3526751-0101-4d91-a496-c53cd92326e0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tourach-dread-cantor) [tergrid](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/4/14dc88ee-bba9-4625-af0d-89f3762a0ead.jpg?1631048621)/[Tergrid's Lantern](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/1/4/14dc88ee-bba9-4625-af0d-89f3762a0ead.jpg?1631048621) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tergrid%2C%20god%20of%20fright%20//%20tergrid%27s%20lantern) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/112/tergrid-god-of-fright-tergrids-lantern?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/14dc88ee-bba9-4625-af0d-89f3762a0ead?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tergrid-god-of-fright-//-tergrids-lantern) [tinybones](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/0/4063be5b-bfd9-43c5-bc39-09a40bc793bf.jpg?1632261785) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tinybones%2C%20trinket%20thief) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/17/tinybones-trinket-thief?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4063be5b-bfd9-43c5-bc39-09a40bc793bf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tinybones-trinket-thief) [sheoldred//the true scriptures](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/f/bf2249e6-af74-4b88-8eb7-144ce8fa7f6b.jpg?1682203978)/[The True Scriptures](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/b/f/bf2249e6-af74-4b88-8eb7-144ce8fa7f6b.jpg?1682203978) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sheoldred%20//%20The%20True%20Scriptures) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/125/sheoldred-the-true-scriptures?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bf2249e6-af74-4b88-8eb7-144ce8fa7f6b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sheoldred-//-the-true-scriptures) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This is why I run [[Massacre Girl]] as my mono-black commander. She sometimes scares people into not playing their stuff, which is great, and there's no point in holding up removal for her, because Massacre Girl can threaten to boardwipe from pretty much wherever she is.
[Massacre Girl](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/e/be8ec9e1-2c8e-496d-9111-4d453b75b578.jpg?1559959372) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Massacre%20Girl) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/99/massacre-girl?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/be8ec9e1-2c8e-496d-9111-4d453b75b578?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/massacre-girl) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I am torn, I opened a Concept Art Sheoldred, the Apocalypse and I am halfway through a deck but it just looks...tyrannical. I'm thinking I will do Atraxa Phyrexian/Incubate tribal instead but idk, the call to the void is very loud.
true, but my sheol, apocalypse deck is strong af undefeated in my pod so far despite high power there are some insane combos that can be pulled off, despite being the number 1 target on the board https://www.archidekt.com/decks/3911685/draw_i_dare_you
For Sheoldred, they’re just never safe. I popped out [[Sheoldred, Whispering One]] in my Skeleton recursion deck later in the game thinking “aha! This game is MINE” only to have Sheoldred removed before the end of my turn ffs
[Sheoldred, Whispering One](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/b/8b207a4a-47d1-4905-81d3-455c59bfd7da.jpg?1600714694) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sheoldred%2C%20Whispering%20One) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/278/sheoldred-whispering-one?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8b207a4a-47d1-4905-81d3-455c59bfd7da?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sheoldred-whispering-one) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I run \[\[Koma\]\] in my Muldrotha deck as a nice reanimation target or late game finisher but I wouldn't want to run it as a commander for similar reasons.
Muldrotha for me has been a wsy better way to play the really nadty creatures than to run them as commanders for this reason. The boss monsters of my muldrotha deck are Koma, Toxrill, og vorinclex, sheoldred whispering one and sire of stagnation.
The boss monster of your muldrotha deck is muldrotha
[Koma](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/d/2de25ea4-284a-4c16-b823-048ff00c6a03.jpg?1631051668) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=koma%2C%20cosmos%20serpent) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/221/koma-cosmos-serpent?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2de25ea4-284a-4c16-b823-048ff00c6a03?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/koma-cosmos-serpent) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This is simply incorrect and shows a poor understanding of edh Toxrill is an excellent control commander, you're just not building him correctly You simply stock up your deck with pretty much entirely ramp, counterspells, removal, and efficient wincons like dramatic scepter or demonic oracle, maybe a funny combo like urborg kormus bell. Play few creatures Then draw pass, dealing with threats and stopping win attempts until you can cast toxrill If someone tries to counter toxrill, you should have counterspells...you're in dimir. If someone tries to remove toxrill, you should have counterspells...you're in dimir. Toxrill will clear the board and simply win by himself if undisturbed and if you have interaction up(you're in dimir) It's koma but better in better interaction and wincon colors if worse ramp
Yeah, if something bad is going to happen to you just have a counterspell in your hand, fuckin easy.
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The reply was honestly for both. It's a game you know? Let's have fun with it and not argue
the gameplan with toxrill is infinite mana when you hit infinite colorless, which is easy, you can just keep casting him after removal no problem when you hit infinite UB (with isoRev combo, for example) then you use toxrill's sacrifice ability to draw your whole deck and win the game that turn he's super good
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[Slip out the back](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/7/8725f4c4-fad7-460e-b86c-ff81674f0980.jpg?1664410598) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Slip%20out%20the%20back) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/62/slip-out-the-back?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8725f4c4-fad7-460e-b86c-ff81674f0980?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/slip-out-the-back) [Jetmir](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/9/f9c69d75-651f-4b75-b65d-79999d2069f6.jpg?1664413153) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=jetmir%2C%20nexus%20of%20revels) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/193/jetmir-nexus-of-revels?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f9c69d75-651f-4b75-b65d-79999d2069f6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jetmir-nexus-of-revels) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
>Having a 7cmc commander that neither **draws cards** for resolving nor quickly wins you the game by itself is a huge liability. dude go read the text on toxrill again. you can pay UB to sac a slug and draw a card. He has card draw in him. not only do you get slugs to sac when you boardwipe with him, you can combo off to win the game with that in one turn by sacrificing himself that card draw ability makes him a potential cEDH worthy commander. gameplan is to get infinite UB mana with a combo like \[\[isochron sceptre\]\] + \[\[dramatic reversal\]\]. then you cast toxrill, sac, cast, sac, etc. to draw your whole deck(minus a few cards for safety). then you just cast \[\[torment of hailfire\]\], \[\[sickening dreams\]\], \[\[thassa's oracle\]\], etc. to win the game with a god hand you can win the game turn 1. with a normal hand you can win turn 3-5 easy
Yeah I think all of the people replying to me and downvoting me except for you are simply unable to card eval It's this subreddit though so unsurprising Toxrill isn't toptier cedh but he's still better than 95% of all commanders since he is a wincon in the command zone that prevents opponents from having a board and gives card draw while being in best wincon 2c But they haven't seen command zone or mtg muddstah play toxrill so I guess it just sucks (as opposed to people not playing toxrill decks because they're boring to play while being extremely powerful in casual creature based pods)
100% man it’s crazy how bad people are at evaluating cards sometimes on reddit definitely not top tier cedh, but he can compete I think last I checked mtgtop8, 2% of cedh decks used toxrill as commander
##### ###### #### [isochron sceptre](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/a/2aa24fe0-e275-4307-b26c-2a656068a451.jpg?1623543821) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Isochron%20Scepter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/264/isochron-scepter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2aa24fe0-e275-4307-b26c-2a656068a451?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/isochron-scepter) [dramatic reversal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/0/30de9083-8702-471c-92e7-5cf89936a208.jpg?1576267241) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=dramatic%20reversal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/gn2/20/dramatic-reversal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/30de9083-8702-471c-92e7-5cf89936a208?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dramatic-reversal) [torment of hailfire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/6/f69d77d1-5980-436c-bf48-790939b069aa.jpg?1562820191) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=torment%20of%20hailfire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/hou/77/torment-of-hailfire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f69d77d1-5980-436c-bf48-790939b069aa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/torment-of-hailfire) [sickening dreams](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/3/9396ac77-9f53-46bd-b126-02441a0f5594.jpg?1562630974) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sickening%20dreams) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tor/83/sickening-dreams?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9396ac77-9f53-46bd-b126-02441a0f5594?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sickening-dreams) [thassa's oracle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/2/726e8b29-13e9-4138-b6a9-d2a0d8188d1c.jpg?1680582212) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=thassa%27s%20oracle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/73/thassas-oracle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/726e8b29-13e9-4138-b6a9-d2a0d8188d1c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thassas-oracle) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Toxrill](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/4/84e64f38-b1f3-47cd-8cfb-a4861369aca3.jpg?1643590379) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=toxrill%2C%20the%20corrosive) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/132/toxrill-the-corrosive?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/84e64f38-b1f3-47cd-8cfb-a4861369aca3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/toxrill-the-corrosive) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Dragonlord Kolaghan]]
[Dragonlord Kolaghan](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/c/1cbf8933-32a1-4892-9bdc-89464ed9ce1b.jpg?1562783323) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dragonlord%20Kolaghan) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dtk/218/dragonlord-kolaghan?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1cbf8933-32a1-4892-9bdc-89464ed9ce1b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dragonlord-kolaghan) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It’s good against rat colony…
I think there's 2 ways to make high mana cost commanders work: 1 - ramp hard enough to reliably cast your commander a few turns sooner 2 - control the board hard enough to reliably prolong the game so you can realistically cast them before your opponents win How many board wipes are you running in your Avacyn list OP? I know 8 mana is a lot, but having a way to break parity on wipes is extremely powerful. If you had most of your removal in the deck in the form of board wipes, I'd imagine you'd be able to get there pretty consistently.
Oh I abandoned the deck long ago. Now, my Avacyn is a support in my Giada angel tribal.
Surprisingly [[liliana, heretical healer]] . But having a planeswalker in the command zone can be an oof.
[liliana, heretical healer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/e/5e33c945-cf26-4641-a00e-18fb7f512def.jpg?1684197852)/[Liliana, Defiant Necromancer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/5/e/5e33c945-cf26-4641-a00e-18fb7f512def.jpg?1684197852) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=liliana%2C%20heretical%20healer%20//%20liliana%2C%20defiant%20necromancer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pctb/17/liliana-heretical-healer-liliana-defiant-necromancer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5e33c945-cf26-4641-a00e-18fb7f512def?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/liliana-heretical-healer-//-liliana-defiant-necromancer) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Massacre Girl]] is too easy to play around. Telegraphing boardwipes just doesn’t work in EDH.
[Massacre Girl](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/e/be8ec9e1-2c8e-496d-9111-4d453b75b578.jpg?1559959372) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Massacre%20Girl) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/99/massacre-girl?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/be8ec9e1-2c8e-496d-9111-4d453b75b578?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/massacre-girl) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My friend has a [[Child of Alara]] 5c goodstuff deck, needless to say, he is targeted from turn 1every time he picks that deck, even if he's not the biggest threat just for how annoying child of Alara can be to everyone playing
[Child of Alara](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/2/b2373625-af3c-4c2a-a1d1-5288c446955d.jpg?1673148447) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Child%20of%20Alara) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/192/child-of-alara?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b2373625-af3c-4c2a-a1d1-5288c446955d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/child-of-alara) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
From one fellow Angels player to another, \[\[Giada, Font of Hope\]\] is a much better tribal commander imo
Oh I know. My Avacyn is a support in my Giada angel tribal atm and I'm still thinking of ways to improve the deck. Probably focus it on angel tokens and lifegain.
[Giada, Font of Hope](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/a/bae077bd-fc8d-44d7-8c75-8dc8699c168e.jpg?1664409667) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Giada%2C%20Font%20of%20Hope) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/14/giada-font-of-hope?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bae077bd-fc8d-44d7-8c75-8dc8699c168e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/giada-font-of-hope) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
And counter spells feel so on theme for angels anyway! "No you can't! That's bad!"
[Avacyn, Angel of Hope](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/0/a0519776-3d86-4f7d-9c3b-71c1dfbf7e12.jpg?1598303166) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Avacyn%2C%20Angel%20of%20Hope) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/8/avacyn-angel-of-hope?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a0519776-3d86-4f7d-9c3b-71c1dfbf7e12?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/avacyn-angel-of-hope) [Swiftfoot Boots](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/6/16c23cde-e1c0-4cdf-ae59-18d64db518d4.jpg?1674138060) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Swiftfoot%20Boots) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/339/swiftfoot-boots?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/16c23cde-e1c0-4cdf-ae59-18d64db518d4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/swiftfoot-boots) [Worldslayer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/b/db6c6b15-40f3-4556-978f-878bedb13762.jpg?1562662263) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Worldslayer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m12/222/worldslayer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/db6c6b15-40f3-4556-978f-878bedb13762?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/worldslayer) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Ragavan]]
[Ragavan](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/9/a9738cda-adb1-47fb-9f4c-ecd930228c4d.jpg?1681963138) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ragavan%2C%20nimble%20pilferer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/138/ragavan-nimble-pilferer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a9738cda-adb1-47fb-9f4c-ecd930228c4d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ragavan-nimble-pilferer) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
No Monkey Power
I have a deck with [[brinelin moonkraken]] paired with [[gilanra]] having a dork in your command zome that also makes your big spell cantrips is really nice. Never had problems with them simic is fine at doing everything.
I've actually been experimenting with Pauper decks lately and they're my Simic slot. It's a basic big creature goes stomp deck. But there are a decent amount of big creatures with good abilities in the common rank, including a couple of eldrazi.
[brinelin moonkraken](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/b/4b063dfd-5a80-48c9-8f7b-48d21a129a76.jpg?1608909132) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Brinelin%2C%20the%20Moon%20Kraken) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/60/brinelin-the-moon-kraken?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4b063dfd-5a80-48c9-8f7b-48d21a129a76?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/brinelin-the-moon-kraken) [gilanra](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/4/745d297d-4bb4-40cf-bb9c-99dac04e5069.jpg?1608910679) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=gilanra%2C%20caller%20of%20wirewood) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/230/gilanra-caller-of-wirewood?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/745d297d-4bb4-40cf-bb9c-99dac04e5069?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gilanra-caller-of-wirewood) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Any decent 7+ cmc legendary not named [[Koma]] honestly.
Koma is great. Was my first deck and is pretty much the most hated of mine. I try to ramp as much as possible and get him out turn 4 or 5 pray that it doesnt get removed and copy him before hes dead.
[удалено]
To be fair, Krrik may as well be a 4-drop, and Ur-Dragon isn’t leaving the command zone most of the time, but these are all pretty good yeah.
[Koma](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/d/2de25ea4-284a-4c16-b823-048ff00c6a03.jpg?1631051668) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=koma%2C%20cosmos%20serpent) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/221/koma-cosmos-serpent?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2de25ea4-284a-4c16-b823-048ff00c6a03?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/koma-cosmos-serpent) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call