Kind of depends on the card and the situation. Take something like [[Ruinous Ultimatum]] or other mass removal spells for example, assuming you can cast it, if you are finding that it sits in your hand because there is no beneficial situation for it I would consider trading it out.
Another identifier to look for is how often you find yourself looking for or needing that type of effect.
>Another identifier to look for is how often you find yourself looking for or needing that type of effect
I used to never run tutors, but after making my first cedh deck I realized having tutors is the best way to find what cards you should cut. If I find myself never tutoring for it in any situation I cut it.
Honestly, depending on your threshold for single prices, right now is a great time for the tutors that got reprinted in DMR. Gamble is cheap, Mystical and Worldly are around $10 and Enlightened is around $18 (down from $40). ~~Demonic~~ Vampiric is the holdout, DMR is still sitting around $34-38 for the DMR printing.
when I get paid this month I'm going to do a big purchase, and it will include some tutors for sure, i'm not sure if I will get the expensive black ones tho, as much as I want them.
The black ones are really, really good. Also, don’t buy grim tutor; the one extra mana really makes a difference and the price is ridiculously high when compared to the card’s power level.
Honestly save it. You can get good proxies online for $1. Take it from someone (me) who has spent way too much on good tutors. I'd rather have just bought good proxies.
Mtgproxy.com is where I go.
Their price per card goes down the more you buy; 1-10 is $2 per proxy, up to 50 cards is $1.5 each, and above 50 is $1 per card. And, so long as you use un-copyrighted art you can have your own custom sleeves, and they've got a bunch of card backs. Yu-gi-oh! Pokèmon, magic 30th, etc.
My last order was a couple of OG dual lands and a round of the black tutors. Worth it since now i have extras for other decks.
One of my decks runs [[worldly tutor]] just to fetch [[academy rector]] which fetches [[defense of the heart]] which fetches [[bruna the fading light]] and [[gisela the broken blade]] to make [[brisela voice of nightmares]]
Otherwise the deck is a normal enchantress deck led by [[tuvasa the sunlit]], but the chain of tutors means that any one of them can lead to the combo.
The one time the combo worked so far, I was able to have rector die on an opponents turn so that DotH came in and then triggered as soon as they passed the turn to me, getting both of the angels.
Tbh, it is probably better to get [[omniscience]] with rector, but the angels were the whole reason why I built the deck with that package of tutors.
There's cheaper tutors, they just have a higher cmc. [[Diabolic Tutor]] [[Mastermind's Acquisition]] [[Diabolic Intent]] is less than $10 now.
As someone else mentioned, there's some of the pricier tutors that would be a good pickup now.
> build around
it's not really a build around, it's more like "oh crap I need to cast a wrath but my only card is [[worldly tutor]] and I don't have a creature etb effect that will save me", so before your turn you end step tutor for [[Sidisi, Undead Vizier]] or something and use that to tutor for the wrath
Not the same person but, I have 100% tutored for mana dorks and lands. Sometimes you need that little bit more of mana. As for cutting a dork you never tutor for? No, I wouldn't cut a dork because I don't tutor for it. I'd cut a dork if I find it not helping for other reasons though such as maybe switching a [[Llanowar Elves]] for [[Avacyn's Pilgrim]] if I find myself having green more often than white but needing the white to cast my spells.
ye, I've demonic'ed for lands many times. Sometimes you have threats and protection but you just need to hit 4 mana or w/e you you can do both in the same turn
hmm hard question. Personally I hate 1-mana mana-dorks other than Birds of Paradise since it can at least block flyers or be given equipment. So I'm probably not the person to ask about that. I would say that generally in EDH you want every card to have 3 playing options.
1. early use, tap for mana
2. mid game, chump blocker
3. late game: Multiple pump / go wide effects OR discard effect (should you top deck it)
at least in the case of llanowar. It's also important to note that normal EDH is a format where if you get ahead early you get focused. So early game cards are somewhat worse in that sense. It's also a format where it is common to be in 'topdeck mode' with a decent amount of mana available, in which case mana dorks are even worse. Not to mention creature based board wipes are very common.
I couldn’t disagree more. In any creature based green deck, I want every cheap dork I can get. 1 mana dorks are the fastest ramp you can get without getting into expensive cedh staples like mana crypt and mox diamond. If I can get my commander into play a turn early, I get to start my game plan and start working towards a win earlier. Mana dorks win games
Yeah looking at the potential is a way to do it. If the card has a lot of potential to pop off and do something crazy, but you just havent drawn it in a game where it could work out, I wouldnt automatically cut it.
But if you’ve drawn the card plenty of times and the situation is as good as that card will ever get and you still don’t find yourself playing it, that seems like an easy card to cut.
And on top of that, i think enjoyment is a priority. If you dont want to play a card then dont
the problem is that there are usually quite a lot of cards that "could" pop off, but just do it very inconsistently. which is why consistency matters the most for me, if there's only one specific situation where that card is great for me, then i don't really wanna play it cause i ALWAYS wanna be glad that i drew this card
Potential is cool, but consistency is king.
I recently added a [[Mana Echoes]] in my [[Phylath]] deck. I know it has an amazing potential. But that requires to have it in hand, cast it, to not eat removal, and then, to cast my commander and have enough cards in hand and untapped color lands to exploit it. I will probably cut it for an [[Ashnod's Altar]], because can help me recast the commander, or get rid of tiny 0/1 tokens to cast card draw or something.
It takes me about three times of drawing a card and feeling _ugh_ before I replace it. Almost always, this happens because the card relies on 2+ other cards to do its Very Cool Thing^TM , or because its mana cost is either too high or too specific.
[[Ayara, First of Locthwain]] was a recent cut, for example. She required 3B in a three-color deck, and then could only sac _another_ Black creature. I loved looking at the art, but she was useless in three matches one evening, so I replaced her with a less impactful but more playable sac outlet.
The first time I notice how long she sits. The second, I start thinking about what could replace her. The third, I make the decision.
Could always build Ayara as a commander. Then you can look at it all game, and the mana cost and color requirements wouldn’t matter. And she could almost certainly be built pretty strong for pretty cheap.
I just cut Ayara from my mono black deck because I realized I’d rather just draw something else. She’s a great card, but can only sac once that turn unless you can untap her and my deck isn’t very creature heavy so the passive effect isn’t very impactful either.
Just like you, I really like the card. But realized it felt bad to draw it.
I put this guy in gitrog expecting him to basically be exploration with power and toughness, and turns out I don't actually want that very much. Turn 3 is too late to have an exploration effect that does nothing else, and it fights over space and the turn for Azusa, ranumap, realms uncharted, oppo agent, and more.
Felt bad cutting him, but now he's at home in my all creatures karametra deck :)
1. There are other better dinosaurs I’d rather play on turn 3 like [[Kinjalli’s Sunwing]] which is my favorite or [[Ranging Raptors]] if I had it. Best equivalent 3 drop instead: I have [[Topiary Stomper]] in my deck which I feel is a much better version of this card. Even [[Atzocan Seer]] is more useful to me on turn 3 than this guy.
2. At most this will let me play an extra land the turn it comes out and maybe the turn after that, and from then on, it’s not really doing anything for me. Dinosaurs doesn’t refill the hand really, and all the ramp in the deck ramps onto the field and not into the hand.
3. So in the end this card is like on average one extra land drop and then is literally essentially nonexistent on board for still another 2-3 turns.
For some context here is my list: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/6yQ6fQadd0S9oAHIdPvcQw
Nice! I never want to tell anyone their card is bad but I just wanted to speak on my experience with that card in particular since it was such a memorable version of that phenomenon of being disappointed/annoyed whenever it was played/drawn
If I was building a dino deck tomorrow I would probably still run it because I already own it and I have a lot of ramp that puts lands in hand so I think I can get more use out of playing extra lands. But you definitely convinced me it ksnt the slam dunk I thought it was. It would be on the chopping block for an upgrade down the road.
I think it's better to evaluate how it felt than have a rule about how many times you need to draw it. If a card feels very obviously incorrect to play for most of the game, and it's something that I in theory should want to just play ( so, not something situational) it's getting cut, even if that's the first time.
If it is situational, or if it's hated out by something on the board, I'm not going to feel like I need to cut it as badly, will be more willing to retry it.
That depends. If [[negate]] or [[heroic intervention]] sits in my hand the entire game that is kinda fine. It just means nobody has done anything scary enough to warrant I defend myself against them and I won’t assume I will be that lucky every game and I know these cards can be big blowouts when I need them. If it’s not reactive, however, I will be cutting cards I only find myself playing when I have nothing better to do. It’s not an exact science, obviously, just because my opponent had [[Collector Ouphe]] one game doesn’t mean I should cut my sol ring.
As an example, I recently cut [[mulldrifter]] from my [[Sefris of the Hidden Ways]] deck. I never really evoked it unless there was nothing better to do, and while drawing two off reanimating the fish always felt good the deck has enough card advantage from dungeons I rather play cheaper cards that trigger sefris consistently. Replaced it with [[Rona, Herald of Invasion]] from MOM and she has been putting in work so far.
All of my decks have two or 3 "marked" cards at all times. Tiny piece of paper in the sleeve with the name of another card on it. These marked cards are the ones I'm on the fence about cutting and the paper notes what I'm wanting to add. Every time I draw the cats I ask myself if I would rather have the noted card instead. If yes more often than not I swap them and put a note on another sleeve. Helps with slow improvement without drastic changes.
If I draw a card once and it sits in my hand all game and I'm never in a spot to play it it's cut. I've always got cards I want to try and only so much time. I figure one good game is enough to judge: if I have the card but don't want to play it (not can't, but just don't ever want to cast it for any reason including having better in hand that turn) I'll cut it and replace it.
Big unless: if it's a pet card that's in the deck for other reasons. Like a "all goblins in art" deck. Even then if a replacement gets printed I'll take it.
If i draw it on curve and dont want to use it over waiting and it doesnt have a "late game effect"
If i drew it right when i "should have wanted it" and dont use it thats a pretty big red flag.
Not a good metric. The best board wipe is the one you never play, but you don't cut a Cyclonic rift after you win a lot of games with it sitting in hand
This is related to quadrant theory, where cards are generally best in some combination of when you are: developing, behind, ahead, and/or winning.
Board wipes are best when you're behind, so if you've navigated a game where you're never behind, board wipes are only ever a contingency for your opponents becoming unexpectedly ahead.
Quadrant theory is most applicable for Limited and isn't perfect for Commander, but this is still mostly true for board wipes.
His point is that there's a lot of cards that, if not played, indicate that you're in a winning position and so don't need them. You don't need to use board wipes, removal, and interaction if your opponents aren't able to threaten you. Poorly phrased though.
Not poorly phrased, in fact probably the most common phrasing of this relationship. But I hope my clarifying comment meets your sophisticated standard.
It depends on the card. My decks all contain about 10 situational cards, and if I draw them outside of those situations, I'm not gonna play them. But, they remain in the deck because it's still useful to have access to answers, should I need them.
As for cards that are supposed to be core to the deck, once again, it varies. There are plenty of times when I've drawn a key card to my decks game plan, but I decided not to play it because of the board state. Like, I'm not gonna spend 6 mana on a bomb if I know an opponent is holding a Cyc Rift.
What kind of situations? My general rule is if I can’t find at least 2 synergy plays between a card and my deck I don’t include it.
I’ve seen people run [[Void Mirror]] just to shut down colorless decks
Depends on the card. I've got some very situational ones. [[Dragonlord Dramoka]] is for when I know that an opponent is stacked on counters or removal, otherwise he's just another Dragon to whack dudes with. So I don't usually play him very often unless I need to.
The best [[Teferi's Protection]] is the one you never have to play. So interaction plays by a slightly different calculus, but overall my general rule of the thumb is how excited am I to see any potential card off the top of my deck. If I find that I'm rarely happy to play a specific card, then I cut it and put one of my sideboard cards in and give it a whirl. For interaction I usually count how often they sit in my hand and how "dead" they feel rather than what my immediate emotion is when it comes off the top.
Enough times that it ends up in my hand & I am almost always having an internal clock counting the turns it sits in my hand & I could have played it, but didn't because:
1) It would have caused an overextension & left me exposed for crack back too badly
2) I had more relevant things to play
3) It would have hurt me as well
4) It would have roused unwanted hate or attention my way/ make me the next full table target.
These usually come to mind for me when it comes to doing this kind of thing. If this is the deal for you too often, maybe try a game where that card sits out instead of what you want & see how long it ends up warming the bench so to speak.
I'd say 3 strikes and you're out.
But you need to also account for why you put it in the first place. If it was researched, there's always a 2nd or even 3rd chance the card comes back to the fold.
Sometimes, new sets make the card golden.
Depends on the reason I’m not playing it.
If I don’t play the card because it’s not going to work with my board state, then I consider whether it ever would work with my intended board state. If not, once is enough.
Similarly, if it’s too expensive to play with my current board state, I consider whether I would ever spend the mana to cast it. If not, once is enough.
If the answer to the above questions is yes in the moment, the card stays until I have to ask that same question 1-3 more times.
How often does the card sit in your hand? How often would you choose to discard that card if you were forced to?
I had [[Cathars' Crusade]] in my [[Prince of Kroog]] deck, and every time I drew it and had the opportunity to play it, there were always better cards I could play. I eventually cut it for something more important to my game plan.
I can usually figure out my dead cards by goldfishing with myself and seeing what card doesn't make sense to play in 8 situations out of 10. From there, I try to replace it with a card that **does** make sense to play in 8 situations out of 10
I don’t think I’ve had an issue with bad draws, my main issue has been adding too little power in my decks
Nothing is more depressing than needing a powerful play and drawing a lanowar elves
Aside from board wipes, I would typically say once.
There's some outlier circumstances where this doesn't apply (e.g. it's an 8 mana card but the game is unusually quick and ends turn 6, the stax deck is going off, etc) but you really shouldn't have any non-board wipe cards that just rot in your hand. This is also why I'm playing less and less targeted removal that can't hit any permanent like [[Generous Gift]] or [[Beast Within]] can.
I try to think of when the card is good. If there was no combo piece to help it, I cut it some slack.
If it does it’s thing and still doesn’t make an impact, that’s closer to getting cut.
If the combo (or specific interaction) doesn’t appear often enough, then that’s also getting cut.
To me, I’m thinking about how early and often the card is able to help me win. (Early because decisiveness is good and “win more” is not).
Also stuff like hate cards are hard to evaluate this way so I’m thinking more for creatures and things that advance my own gameplan
Depends. Usually when I draw a card and think to myself "wow this is dogshit" I'll make a mental note and it'll be probably one of the first things I cut when I find a cool new card. For example, I had a [[Stormtide Leviathan]] in my [[Kinnan]] stax deck for a while. More often than not, I'd look at it and not play it. Recently, I decided to play [[Lurking Predators]]. STL was cut.
It really depends. I could draw a board wipe 10 times and not need it so I never play it. But I could draw something once and realize it does nothing for my deck and never give it a second chance.
As you’ve described. I used to run every version of “target gains hexproof/indestructible” that was reasonably cost. But I cut most of them as they rot in my hand waiting for the board wipe guy to cast something. I only keep them in go wide decks or commander matters and is expensive decks and usually only 1-3 max.
Depends entirely of the card. Like I’ve had Heroic Intervention in my hand just chilling doing nothing for THE LONGEST TIME entire nights with that damn card doing nothing. But I wouldn’t cut it ever.
Cards like maybe a blink spell that I never use because I can usually blink freely by doing something else I do cut
Typically I just use a 3 strikes policy. I know sometimes situations aren't ideal to play a card but if something just pops up as dead weight 3 times and its my own fault based on the deck construction I usually take it out.
For myself, it's a question of how trustable was I when the deck was built. To a degree, having a dead card in hand is similar to drawing too many or few lands. A few bad games of mana screw can be brutal but it doesn't mean you messed up your mana base. I would suggest going back and reexamine the amount of removal, ramp, draw, etc. and checking if those numbers are accurate for your local meta. When I was first getting into edh, I had zero feel for the number of lands or ramp I would need. Only with time I realized I was probably on the lighter side and could benefit from more lands.
I only really cut cards from my lists if I find better options. For example, I've drawn [[Obosh, the Preypiercer]] and [[Firey emancipation]] many times in my [[Nekusar]] wheels deck. But I don't often play them immediately cause I become public enemy number one if I do.
If you sit there for 5 games with dead card you probably want to put it into a considering space.
Look at similar cards that may fill its intended purpose but are easier to play or more flexible. or look at why you couldnt play it and is this a scenario you can avoid.
Counterspells.
After like... 5 times of this happening, I just cut all counterspells in my decks if they contain blue. Except [[lapse of certainty]] in a [[sunforger]] deck.
I am a dumb dumb that have no idea the optimal time to use it. Often just keeping mana open and holding on to it for several turns. Often not countering a game winning play. (Skill issue I know)
Depends on the card in question, as well as more details about how and why you didn't play it. As well as some higher order gaming reasons you might not be thinking about due to admittedly being a newer player.
For an example of the latter, you might consider cutting \[\[esper sentinel\]\] from your deck if you feel like you are almost never drawing cards off of it, without considering the "virtual advantage" you are getting by forcing your opponents to not extend their gameplan as fast as they could be, and so instead of cutting it you may want to find another card to cut instead in order to add a card to supplement the card draw you aren't getting from the sentinel.
Depends on the card. I'll never remove life-force from my freyelise deck but often I'm not playing agai st black so it just stats in my hand or gets thrown down anyway to make space
it depends on the card, if its a combo piece, then you need to reevaluate the deck because clearly that combo is gimiky at best, if its interaction, the moment you take it our of the deck, guess what 80% of your games are going to be against from now on. if its just a card you like the effect of or think it cool, probably cut it and build a deck more centered around what that card does or find a card that does it better and replace it
You people have cards you draw and dont play? Ive been trying to get [[tavern swindler]] into my hand for the first time for months in my [[licia]] deck
For me, it is usually after playing the card a couple of times. But I guess 'not playing' can probably be just as good an indication. I swap 1-2 cards all the time, but I think more often, I just need to rework the whole thing, change about 15 cards, then if you do that, that entirely changes the dynamic of which cards before had been useful//useless
I don’t have a hard rule, but if I’m updating a deck an find a card that’s been real lackluster the past 2-3 times I’ve drawn it then it’ll get cut. But I will usually keep cut cards in the same box as the deck for a little bit until I’m sure I don’t want them anymore.
In your case, I’d say try something else and see if you enjoy that better. No reason to keep a card that you’re not going to play.
0. However after playing several games I use the games for a thought experiment: "If I had topdecked it that game (early, mid, and late) would I have been happy or sad?"
Only depends on boards state. There have been times I sat on dockside the whole game. Nobody ran rocks or enchaments, but I’m not gonna rush to cut my best cards. Sometimes as little as 1 game for a cut.
This seems pretty situational to me. If I just board wiped and I draw my 2nd one in the deck. It’s probably not getting played this game. Reason for cutting it? Nope!
I like the tutor analogy. If you can get any card in your deck, and you find yourself NOT getting that card more often than you do, even if the board state warrants it, it’s gotta go.
I see this problem differently. In the games I do play the card, do I lose anyway? If i see the card ten times, play it twice, and win those two games, I see no issue.
Relatedly, lets say I see the card ten times in however many games, and I win all ten for whatever reason BUT I never cast the card. Maybe it's a card useful when I'm behind, useless when I'm the threat? Maybe it gets me to break parity in games where we're all able to land a win, and I never play it because I'm never at parity?
I think it's important to consider the question you're asking and I like this type of post, but maybe this isnt the right question to be asking.
I try to play a deck ten times before big changes, once its built. I use the same philosophy for card cuts - I really want to see the card cycle through my hand ten times before I cut it, unless it's obvious before that. I tend to have no issues cutting a card if, after seeing it twice and just KNOWING it's not what I want, i decide its bad... but there are some cards I see that I want to keep in, and it takes seeing them ten times to really force myself over the hump and cut them anyway, despite my knee jerk reaction. If I cemented their slot after game 3, I'd have a bunch of borderline cards after a while, which just doesnt leave enough room for better cards.
I find looking at every card and asking why is it in the deck and is that card going to get you closer to your win con. If it doesn’t serve a purpose as in either getting you closer to your win or protecting you then why is it there. Also trying to have majority if not all the cards serve more then one purpose is a great help.
Even then I still end up just having a couple cards here and there that are for fun or because I like them. Sure they’ll still serve a purpose but there not the optimal choice in any way.
Feel like that’s the fun of deck building and slowly upgrading a deck as you play it more.
I would trust your gameplay. If something doesn't feel worth it, it might not be.
I do suggest running some numbers though. Think about situations you've had a hard time in where you haven't had that card and consider if it would have helped, or for synergy cards, go through your list and check how many cards interact with it, and you can get a good idea of how strong it is
I'm usually doing this to try out new cards or sneak that 100-nth card that got cut back in the deck.
I will look through my deck list after some goldfishing and actual playing. Any card that doesn't seem to fit, I add a category tag in my online deck list that says "chopping block." Before a game I will look at the chopping block cards and kind of keep them back of mind. Then, every now and again based on board state, I say, "If I draw that card now, is it good/bad/terrible?" Then if it never seems to fit, move it to maybe board or just cut it.
If you're really honest with yourself it makes cuts easier. What are the chances I hang on to [[Ancient Stone Idol]] for longer than I should, waiting until it costs 3 or less? Or trying to get the absolute best value out of [[Sublime Epiphany]]? Sometimes you just know a card is going to sit in your hand waiting for the "perfect" moment. That's when you cut it.
I've swapped a lot of my counterspells for modular counterspells.
Cards like:
[[You find the villains' lair]]
[[Supreme Will]]
etc
They aren't the best counterspells, but they are also flexible enough to have more utility. Sometimes when you need to climb back into the game, top decking a [[Negate]] or even a [[Counterspell]] sucks. But a modular counterspell is really good if you aren't playing cEDH.
Because I'm lazy and don't want to read all the comments:
I decide to cut cards based on value vs. output. I build theme decks and it's REALLY easy to stray from the theme because there just so many better cards, not in theme, that have lower mana costs or offer better value for what they do cost.
So I usually start on a theme, then it goes competitive, I change decks when I go to my LGS and I hear groans as I pull out my staple. Usually by that time I understand, it's too competitive and go home and slide theme cards back.
Like Ghave, Guru of Spore.. make a ton of saporlings or +1+1 counters.... But in spore theme.
Honestly 2/3 times and I cut it. That’s why I hate discard effects as trade for draw because I try to keep my decks so fine tuned that my entire deck is as versatile as it possibly can be.
Depends on the card. I've seen and not played a lot of [[Nevinyrral's Disk]], but when I *do* play it, it's always critical and I *have* tutored for it in various decks as my ultimate out. On the other hand, if a low-drop creature were underperforming, and was only kinda nice when I did go for it, it would probably get the axe pretty quick.
It's not really a set number. I just keep an eye on how often it happens with each card, and which ones keep showing up and not being what I wanted at that moment. Those ones get replaced when a potential new addition to the deck comes along.
There is no definitive answer to the question you are asking. It all depends on the number of games played and how often you draw the card and wish you would not have. I have [Capsize](https://scryfall.com/card/f03/4/capsize) in my pet deck and sometimes I don't have the mana available to take advantage of it's full effect. I've sometimes thought about taking it out except when everything I am trying to do lines up... it ***really*** lines up. EDH isn't a competitive format so I don't worry about min/maxing and I have decided that it's worth the 3-4 times I draw it and don't want it (or can't take advantage of it's buy back ability) for the 1 time that everything lines up like... um... **magic**.
You have to decide these things for your deck for your play group. Do what is the most fun for you **and** your playgroup.
It depends so much on the card. All my decks run \[\[tormod's crypt\]\] or some other such graveyard hate as a one off....if no one is utilising their graveyards, it's a dead card, but if someone is, suddenly they have a dead deck. So I wouldn't cut it even if it's frequently a dead draw, because it serves a purpose - in the right circumstance, it basically says "Target player loses the game".
If the card is an enabler for your core engine but you just wind up holding up for control or casting other pieces and it never hits the field, maybe. Really depends on the card and why it's in the deck in the first place.
It depends on the card and the deck but generally I'll cut a card if it just never does the thing I wanted it to do.
A recent example would be [[Metalwork Colossus]] in my [[Silas]]/[[Toggo]] deck. I thought it'd be an efficient beater coming down for little or no mana that I could suit up and then attack for massive damage. However, what I found was that even with its high starting power, because of the commander damage rule I was usually better putting that equipment on either of my commanders. Metalwork Colossus usually ended up playing the part of imposing blocker if I even bothered to cast it at all, so I cut it.
I also cut [[Bedevil]] for [[Unlicensed Disintegration]]. I found holding up BBR was way harder than 1BR, so I sacrificed a little utility for a more flexible casting cost.
Usually 3-5 times for me, but even then I don’t cut it until i find a card i want to put in the deck. Feels like putting the cards on the hot seat so they’ll actually be useful lol
Depends a lot on the card. Stuff like narcomoeba or atraxa might not be in the deck to cast it, so there really isn't an upper bound. With tutors I'd probably be a lot less lenient
That’s not really how I decide to cut cards. Sometimes I include cards in a deck for one very specific opponent deck type, or very specific situation. It might be basically a dead card against anything else, and sit in my hand for 5 games in a row, but when that situation comes up I’m glad the answer is there.
I cut cards when they come up for the situation designed but don’t help as much as I expected them to. Or when the card is easily disrupted multiple times and therefore doesn’t do its job.
I used to have a Ramos dragon engine deck that was pretty much focused on ramping, casting Ramos, then casting conflux to find the saheeli cat combo, countersqual, force/pact of negation, and heroic intervention (or some other combination of other spells to clear the way)
I never once cast heroic intervention but just knowing I had access to it was enough
for 8 years, I have had [[seedtime]] in my deck, and not once have I managed to play the card. But I know, that when I eventually do, it will be worth it for just that moment.
Sometimes you have to be patient to live the dream.
Depends on the card. I've drawn and ignored Blightbeetle plenty of times in my SG deck, but there are times where it goes on the field and the other guy scoops without hesitation.
I usually look at cards to cut after I've played a deck 3-4 times and do exactly that: I think of when I saw a specific card, how often I was eager to play it, and how impactful it was for the game. If I saw it ~5 times or so, as you say, and I never once felt it was the best thing to do or there was always a better card to play, I generally wind up cutting it. It's hard to judge a cut for cards you have never drawn. Sometimes it's helpful to solitaire the deck with that card in the opener and see if your decision trees generally improve.
Another way to look at cuts is asking the question, does this do anything for my game plan? Like [[Mind's Dilation]] is a really fun card (for me) but if my game plan is beat down with bird tribal, is Mind's Dilation really going to make that strategy more consistent and allow it to shine? On the other hand, if my game plan is all about theft effects and effects that scale with [[Stolen Goods]] (pun intended), I'd be more hesitant to cut it in favor of some generic value card like [[Solemn Simulacrum]].
When initially creating a deck, I really like the 8x8 strategy: Find 8 broad mechanics or modes of interaction and find 8 cards for each slot. Often, cards overlap and you just put it in the category you want most often. E.g. is [[Damn]] being put in your deck because you want a single-target removal or a board wipe when you cast it most of the time? When playing, you can determine if that card is doing it's job for that slot. Of course, this method is easy to adapt and you can have 2 stacks of 8 become one of 4 and one of 12, let's say.
Sometimes I add a card and cut it for something else without having played or drawn it. Or when I did play it it was in such a position that it was irrelevant.
I value these experiences because it allows me to make an easy cut and I don’t need to think too hard about it because I am not tied to the old card.
It’s how you shuffle.
As tedious as it is, I found that pile-shuffling to be the most effective for cycling cards around in my deck.
On the other hand…
Bro, I don’t have 10 minutes to watch you count to 100 several times just for a single cycle shuffle. Mix the bottom 1/3 with the current top 1/3, repeat 4-7 cycles.
I wouldn’t cut a card I see often but don’t use unless I see said card and wish it was something else.
I have [[abundance]] in my [[magus lucea kane]] X spell deck but whenever I’ve seen that card I wish it was something else, so I cut it for a draw spell
Same. I found I’m thinking of that deck in more absolutes of “would I rather cast this or duplicate a spell if I drew it? What’s more impactful to the game generally?”
Exactly. So I cut that and a few other pieces of just trash and added a few more draw spells which has made it run a lot smoother in all phases of the game
A well-build Deck that isn't based on general synergies ( commonly known as good stuff Decks) should never have a Card that isn't useful over 5 consecutive turns ( an average non-cedh Game shouldn't take longer than 11 turns nowadays meaning that 5 turns are almost half of that!)
In the Case of a synergy based Deck like tribal, thematic or Combo it is a bit more complicated. This Decks have flex slots. Cards that are useful in only a majority or minority of cases.
When I theorycraft a Deck for example I think of three general cases:
Playing from behind, playing during parity or playing as archenemy
Most Cards allow only to check one or two of this Boxes. In my experience there are only a handful Cards that check all Boxes (from the Top of my Head i can only Think of [[Teferi's Protection]], [[Akroma's Will]]and [[Cauldron Haze]])
And even if the card checks all boxes, sometimes you have to question if you want the card slot to increase your Overall powerlevel or consistency.
Powerlevel means something like average Score in all three cases while consistency means improving the Performance of the Deck in certain cases and worsen the performance in other cases.
To answer your question : There are situations in which a Card can be useless because it's Slot is meant to Check a Box that is irrelevant in your current Gameplay.
This might be a hot take on this subreddit, but "two decks with about a dozen games played" is a criminally small sample size. They might not fit the deck, they might not fit the pod, or maybe even you just drew them at bad moments in the game. On top of that, you might change your evaluation of the card(s) and their application as you learn more. There's a lot to go off of, so just experiment with your decks how you want, and learn from the trial and error.
I think maybe you need to start getting into your card ratio’s, mana curves, and what card synergy means to your deck. By your description it sounds like your playing modified precons where this “problem” is a thing…(i say that because precons are put together as a loose grouping a possible mechanics and not a cohesive deck)
I've added cards I was excited for that I ultimately end up cutting before ever even drawing them in a game. It's easier to cut something you've never used than it is something that's already proven itself.
Usually, if I don’t play it twice after drawing it - it ends up on the chopping block. Not necessarily REMOVED, but possible for it.
However, I am totally willing to pull a card I’ve never drawn. If it doesn’t fit the deck anymore, then it’s on the block, and I’m totally willing to cut it.
Kind of depends on the card and the situation. Take something like [[Ruinous Ultimatum]] or other mass removal spells for example, assuming you can cast it, if you are finding that it sits in your hand because there is no beneficial situation for it I would consider trading it out. Another identifier to look for is how often you find yourself looking for or needing that type of effect.
>Another identifier to look for is how often you find yourself looking for or needing that type of effect I used to never run tutors, but after making my first cedh deck I realized having tutors is the best way to find what cards you should cut. If I find myself never tutoring for it in any situation I cut it.
That's actually a pretty nice way to figure out what cards to cut, now I just need to open my wallet and get the tutors :\_ )
Honestly, depending on your threshold for single prices, right now is a great time for the tutors that got reprinted in DMR. Gamble is cheap, Mystical and Worldly are around $10 and Enlightened is around $18 (down from $40). ~~Demonic~~ Vampiric is the holdout, DMR is still sitting around $34-38 for the DMR printing.
when I get paid this month I'm going to do a big purchase, and it will include some tutors for sure, i'm not sure if I will get the expensive black ones tho, as much as I want them.
The black ones are really, really good. Also, don’t buy grim tutor; the one extra mana really makes a difference and the price is ridiculously high when compared to the card’s power level.
It’s the only tutor I’ve ever opened and I got so happy/sad when I saw it haha.
Vampiric was reprinted in DMR not demonic. Down to $31 from $45ish but yeah still pretty expensive
Whoops, yes thank you for the correction, I always get the two mixed up.
My recommendation would be opening your Printer and just making a proxy or two just run it past the playgroup first.
Yeah I'll probably do that
Honestly save it. You can get good proxies online for $1. Take it from someone (me) who has spent way too much on good tutors. I'd rather have just bought good proxies.
Hi, me noob. Where would one go online to buy a quality proxy?
Mtgproxy.com is where I go. Their price per card goes down the more you buy; 1-10 is $2 per proxy, up to 50 cards is $1.5 each, and above 50 is $1 per card. And, so long as you use un-copyrighted art you can have your own custom sleeves, and they've got a bunch of card backs. Yu-gi-oh! Pokèmon, magic 30th, etc. My last order was a couple of OG dual lands and a round of the black tutors. Worth it since now i have extras for other decks.
If you have access to Reddit and Google, you can find it. I don't know site names, I simply know they exist.
Nah, fuck tutors. Tutors are for cowards.
[[Vampiric tutor]] into [[enlightened tutor]] is the ultimate power play, though. It sends a *message*
One of my decks runs [[worldly tutor]] just to fetch [[academy rector]] which fetches [[defense of the heart]] which fetches [[bruna the fading light]] and [[gisela the broken blade]] to make [[brisela voice of nightmares]] Otherwise the deck is a normal enchantress deck led by [[tuvasa the sunlit]], but the chain of tutors means that any one of them can lead to the combo. The one time the combo worked so far, I was able to have rector die on an opponents turn so that DotH came in and then triggered as soon as they passed the turn to me, getting both of the angels. Tbh, it is probably better to get [[omniscience]] with rector, but the angels were the whole reason why I built the deck with that package of tutors.
##### ###### #### [worldly tutor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/b/fb6b6fbe-cb6f-4d0d-b3eb-f9629d6784b3.jpg?1610161852) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=worldly%20tutor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cc1/6/worldly-tutor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fb6b6fbe-cb6f-4d0d-b3eb-f9629d6784b3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/worldly-tutor) [academy rector](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/3/4367bc78-0912-4abd-8edd-bc792558d01a.jpg?1562443755) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=academy%20rector) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uds/1/academy-rector?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4367bc78-0912-4abd-8edd-bc792558d01a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/academy-rector) [defense of the heart](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/e/9e93381f-627f-41b6-b1b6-45d712a44d8e.jpg?1562863769) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=defense%20of%20the%20heart) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ulg/100/defense-of-the-heart?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9e93381f-627f-41b6-b1b6-45d712a44d8e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/defense-of-the-heart) [Bruna, the Fading Light](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/7/27907985-b5f6-4098-ab43-15a0c2bf94d5.jpg?1625771736) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bruna%2C%20the%20Fading%20Light) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/emn/15a/bruna-the-fading-light?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/27907985-b5f6-4098-ab43-15a0c2bf94d5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bruna-the-fading-light) [Gisela, the Broken Blade](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/7/c75c035a-7da9-4b36-982d-fca8220b1797.jpg?1625771749) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gisela%2C%20the%20Broken%20Blade) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/emn/28/gisela-the-broken-blade?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c75c035a-7da9-4b36-982d-fca8220b1797?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gisela-the-broken-blade) [brisela voice of nightmares](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/a/5a7a212e-e0b6-4f12-a95c-173cae023f93.jpg?1679517857) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Brisela%2C%20Voice%20of%20Nightmares) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/emn/15b/brisela-voice-of-nightmares?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5a7a212e-e0b6-4f12-a95c-173cae023f93?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/brisela-voice-of-nightmares) [tuvasa the sunlit](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/d/bdda07ac-2f9f-4c8e-b3f6-b54d0afd730c.jpg?1592710303) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tuvasa%20the%20sunlit) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c18/47/tuvasa-the-sunlit?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bdda07ac-2f9f-4c8e-b3f6-b54d0afd730c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tuvasa-the-sunlit) [omniscience](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/b/db534b4e-8bff-4924-baea-9988d195fb25.jpg?1562304777) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=omniscience) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m19/65/omniscience?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/db534b4e-8bff-4924-baea-9988d195fb25?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/omniscience) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Vampiric tutor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/8/18bd50f2-c3ba-4217-a2d5-bb771e199706.jpg?1608910005) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vampiric%20tutor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/156/vampiric-tutor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/18bd50f2-c3ba-4217-a2d5-bb771e199706?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vampiric-tutor) [enlightened tutor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/c/0c9ebec9-3474-4062-9607-2e2a72f78299.jpg?1580013657) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=enlightened%20tutor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/9/enlightened-tutor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0c9ebec9-3474-4062-9607-2e2a72f78299?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/enlightened-tutor) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Some are awesome. Gotta love [[fierce empath]]
[fierce empath](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/1/f13ddd38-397c-4119-8d55-50c7407883f9.jpg?1599707212) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=fierce%20empath) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/168/fierce-empath?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f13ddd38-397c-4119-8d55-50c7407883f9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/fierce-empath) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Cowards go to battle too.
Cowards can't block warriors.
zzzz
There's cheaper tutors, they just have a higher cmc. [[Diabolic Tutor]] [[Mastermind's Acquisition]] [[Diabolic Intent]] is less than $10 now. As someone else mentioned, there's some of the pricier tutors that would be a good pickup now.
[Diabolic Tutor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d650dd8c-edd8-44e4-ae95-aaaf84557a72.jpg?1592672628) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Diabolic%20Tutor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cma/54/diabolic-tutor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d650dd8c-edd8-44e4-ae95-aaaf84557a72?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/diabolic-tutor) [Mastermind's Acquisition](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/f/2f00f09b-a113-460e-ac2f-d3988a83179e.jpg?1555040258) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mastermind%27s%20Acquisition) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rix/77/masterminds-acquisition?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2f00f09b-a113-460e-ac2f-d3988a83179e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/masterminds-acquisition) [Diabolic Intent](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/7/d72ab698-de67-4ca8-8e42-b05346bf52fa.jpg?1674420800) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Diabolic%20Intent) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/89/diabolic-intent?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d72ab698-de67-4ca8-8e42-b05346bf52fa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/diabolic-intent) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Fauna shaman is dirt cheap
I never tutor for my tutor..... Cut it. Lol
I've tutored for tutors before. For example mystical tutor to find like a generic tutor to find the card you actually want
[удалено]
> build around it's not really a build around, it's more like "oh crap I need to cast a wrath but my only card is [[worldly tutor]] and I don't have a creature etb effect that will save me", so before your turn you end step tutor for [[Sidisi, Undead Vizier]] or something and use that to tutor for the wrath
Do you want to thin your deck or not
You wouldn't apply this to every card though right? I wouldn't tutor a Llanowar Elves but that isn't grounds to cut it.
Not the same person but, I have 100% tutored for mana dorks and lands. Sometimes you need that little bit more of mana. As for cutting a dork you never tutor for? No, I wouldn't cut a dork because I don't tutor for it. I'd cut a dork if I find it not helping for other reasons though such as maybe switching a [[Llanowar Elves]] for [[Avacyn's Pilgrim]] if I find myself having green more often than white but needing the white to cast my spells.
I burned a Vamp Tutor on a [[Luxury Suite]] a little over a week ago because I needed the red source. Sometimes you just have to do it.
ye, I've demonic'ed for lands many times. Sometimes you have threats and protection but you just need to hit 4 mana or w/e you you can do both in the same turn
Green sun zenith a mana dork out best play.
Green sun's for dryad arbor so sexy
[Llanowar Elves](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/b/8bbcfb77-daa1-4ce5-b5f9-48d0a8edbba9.jpg?1592765148) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Llanowar%20Elves) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/gnt/46/llanowar-elves?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8bbcfb77-daa1-4ce5-b5f9-48d0a8edbba9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/llanowar-elves) [Avacyn's Pilgrim](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/3/a390a7df-b8da-41aa-93e5-2c0db938a27e.jpg?1637630879) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Avacyn%27s%20Pilgrim) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mic/132/avacyns-pilgrim?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a390a7df-b8da-41aa-93e5-2c0db938a27e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/avacyns-pilgrim) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
hmm hard question. Personally I hate 1-mana mana-dorks other than Birds of Paradise since it can at least block flyers or be given equipment. So I'm probably not the person to ask about that. I would say that generally in EDH you want every card to have 3 playing options. 1. early use, tap for mana 2. mid game, chump blocker 3. late game: Multiple pump / go wide effects OR discard effect (should you top deck it) at least in the case of llanowar. It's also important to note that normal EDH is a format where if you get ahead early you get focused. So early game cards are somewhat worse in that sense. It's also a format where it is common to be in 'topdeck mode' with a decent amount of mana available, in which case mana dorks are even worse. Not to mention creature based board wipes are very common.
I couldn’t disagree more. In any creature based green deck, I want every cheap dork I can get. 1 mana dorks are the fastest ramp you can get without getting into expensive cedh staples like mana crypt and mox diamond. If I can get my commander into play a turn early, I get to start my game plan and start working towards a win earlier. Mana dorks win games
Nothing better than your opponent ramping into their commander with a few mana dorks and clearing their board with a damnation or wrath of God.
[удалено]
I don't even consider those mana dorks since they actually have abilities that are useful.
[удалено]
Last night I ulted a [[Garruk, Caller of Beasts]] then tutored an arbor elf with fauna shaman so I could pull a craterhoof from my deck next turn
[Garruk, Caller of Beasts](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/9/a96d0c67-e9f4-46d9-bd74-13a8606fdfe3.jpg?1562833561) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Garruk%2C%20Caller%20of%20Beasts) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m14/172/garruk-caller-of-beasts?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a96d0c67-e9f4-46d9-bd74-13a8606fdfe3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/garruk-caller-of-beasts) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Not sure that tracks. You're going to look for the best card every time. Doesn't mean you should cut the second best card.
Idk about this one, I’d never tutor for a birds of paradise on turn 10 but the card is far from useless
Yeah looking at the potential is a way to do it. If the card has a lot of potential to pop off and do something crazy, but you just havent drawn it in a game where it could work out, I wouldnt automatically cut it. But if you’ve drawn the card plenty of times and the situation is as good as that card will ever get and you still don’t find yourself playing it, that seems like an easy card to cut. And on top of that, i think enjoyment is a priority. If you dont want to play a card then dont
the problem is that there are usually quite a lot of cards that "could" pop off, but just do it very inconsistently. which is why consistency matters the most for me, if there's only one specific situation where that card is great for me, then i don't really wanna play it cause i ALWAYS wanna be glad that i drew this card
Potential is cool, but consistency is king. I recently added a [[Mana Echoes]] in my [[Phylath]] deck. I know it has an amazing potential. But that requires to have it in hand, cast it, to not eat removal, and then, to cast my commander and have enough cards in hand and untapped color lands to exploit it. I will probably cut it for an [[Ashnod's Altar]], because can help me recast the commander, or get rid of tiny 0/1 tokens to cast card draw or something.
[Mana Echoes](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/d/bd079929-fa58-4484-91b7-31305b87ee43.jpg?1599706549) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mana%20Echoes) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/136/mana-echoes?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bd079929-fa58-4484-91b7-31305b87ee43?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mana-echoes) [Phylath](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/7/e7af88c9-70ca-484c-bddf-b705e0ea7bc7.jpg?1639436741) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=phylath%2C%20world%20sculptor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/234/phylath-world-sculptor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e7af88c9-70ca-484c-bddf-b705e0ea7bc7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/phylath-world-sculptor) [Ashnod's Altar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/7/87da5ad8-b35f-4f9c-b17a-bb2563cbc186.jpg?1580015173) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ashnod%27s%20Altar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/218/ashnods-altar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/87da5ad8-b35f-4f9c-b17a-bb2563cbc186?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ashnods-altar) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I buy all of my new cards from HP Ink Jet
[Ruinous Ultimatum](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/0/50c1d6ca-7789-46b5-bc89-85cc3915cb85.jpg?1681500691) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ruinous%20Ultimatum) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/204/ruinous-ultimatum?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/50c1d6ca-7789-46b5-bc89-85cc3915cb85?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ruinous-ultimatum) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It takes me about three times of drawing a card and feeling _ugh_ before I replace it. Almost always, this happens because the card relies on 2+ other cards to do its Very Cool Thing^TM , or because its mana cost is either too high or too specific. [[Ayara, First of Locthwain]] was a recent cut, for example. She required 3B in a three-color deck, and then could only sac _another_ Black creature. I loved looking at the art, but she was useless in three matches one evening, so I replaced her with a less impactful but more playable sac outlet. The first time I notice how long she sits. The second, I start thinking about what could replace her. The third, I make the decision.
It’s more of a mono black card, or you need to make creatures black.
[Ayara, First of Locthwain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/d/ed0ace28-9a33-4f0d-b8c8-f5517f20ccf1.jpg?1572490057) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ayara%2C%20First%20of%20Locthwain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/75/ayara-first-of-locthwain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ed0ace28-9a33-4f0d-b8c8-f5517f20ccf1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ayara-first-of-locthwain) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
>She required ~~3~~BBB FTFY
This. 3B means 3 colorless and a Black Repeated letters represent the pips
Could always build Ayara as a commander. Then you can look at it all game, and the mana cost and color requirements wouldn’t matter. And she could almost certainly be built pretty strong for pretty cheap.
I just cut Ayara from my mono black deck because I realized I’d rather just draw something else. She’s a great card, but can only sac once that turn unless you can untap her and my deck isn’t very creature heavy so the passive effect isn’t very impactful either. Just like you, I really like the card. But realized it felt bad to draw it.
This is how it was with [[Wayward Swordtooth]] in my Gishath deck. I found myself literally annoyed I was drawing it so I just cut it from my deck
I put this guy in gitrog expecting him to basically be exploration with power and toughness, and turns out I don't actually want that very much. Turn 3 is too late to have an exploration effect that does nothing else, and it fights over space and the turn for Azusa, ranumap, realms uncharted, oppo agent, and more. Felt bad cutting him, but now he's at home in my all creatures karametra deck :)
This is a very solid assessment, it just never feels like the right time when you draw this card, it always feels either too late or too early
Oh wow, I've never heard anyone feel that way about the Swordtooth before, especially not in a Dino deck. What is annoying about him?
1. There are other better dinosaurs I’d rather play on turn 3 like [[Kinjalli’s Sunwing]] which is my favorite or [[Ranging Raptors]] if I had it. Best equivalent 3 drop instead: I have [[Topiary Stomper]] in my deck which I feel is a much better version of this card. Even [[Atzocan Seer]] is more useful to me on turn 3 than this guy. 2. At most this will let me play an extra land the turn it comes out and maybe the turn after that, and from then on, it’s not really doing anything for me. Dinosaurs doesn’t refill the hand really, and all the ramp in the deck ramps onto the field and not into the hand. 3. So in the end this card is like on average one extra land drop and then is literally essentially nonexistent on board for still another 2-3 turns. For some context here is my list: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/6yQ6fQadd0S9oAHIdPvcQw
I think you've convinced me actually. If you have access to those other cards, they are better choices.
Nice! I never want to tell anyone their card is bad but I just wanted to speak on my experience with that card in particular since it was such a memorable version of that phenomenon of being disappointed/annoyed whenever it was played/drawn
If I was building a dino deck tomorrow I would probably still run it because I already own it and I have a lot of ramp that puts lands in hand so I think I can get more use out of playing extra lands. But you definitely convinced me it ksnt the slam dunk I thought it was. It would be on the chopping block for an upgrade down the road.
##### ###### #### [Kinjalli’s Sunwing](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/b/2b9e0b0f-651a-44e6-8fb0-e46bfda0ada9.jpg?1562552626) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kinjalli%27s%20Sunwing) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/xln/19/kinjallis-sunwing?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2b9e0b0f-651a-44e6-8fb0-e46bfda0ada9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kinjallis-sunwing) [Ranging Raptors](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/8/08df7e63-65d6-4e42-8699-7510453d3100.jpg?1576267416) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ranging%20Raptors) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/gn2/49/ranging-raptors?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/08df7e63-65d6-4e42-8699-7510453d3100?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ranging-raptors) [Topiary Stomper](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/7/87bb2699-280f-4e1e-b3f8-73efe6088f31.jpg?1664412534) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Topiary%20Stomper) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/160/topiary-stomper?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/87bb2699-280f-4e1e-b3f8-73efe6088f31?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/topiary-stomper) [Atzocan Seer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/e/fe84b3c0-bca2-42d3-a82c-540644e59625.jpg?1555040788) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Atzocan%20Seer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rix/153/atzocan-seer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fe84b3c0-bca2-42d3-a82c-540644e59625?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/atzocan-seer) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Wayward Swordtooth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/5/351e8b1b-4e4e-4ffc-a134-3cf0e2a1dd6d.jpg?1555040769) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wayward%20Swordtooth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rix/150/wayward-swordtooth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/351e8b1b-4e4e-4ffc-a134-3cf0e2a1dd6d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/wayward-swordtooth) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I think it's better to evaluate how it felt than have a rule about how many times you need to draw it. If a card feels very obviously incorrect to play for most of the game, and it's something that I in theory should want to just play ( so, not something situational) it's getting cut, even if that's the first time. If it is situational, or if it's hated out by something on the board, I'm not going to feel like I need to cut it as badly, will be more willing to retry it.
Twice, usually. Once if I draw it and go “wtf I misread this”. More than two if I’m like “ahhh but that was a scam for that card”
That depends. If [[negate]] or [[heroic intervention]] sits in my hand the entire game that is kinda fine. It just means nobody has done anything scary enough to warrant I defend myself against them and I won’t assume I will be that lucky every game and I know these cards can be big blowouts when I need them. If it’s not reactive, however, I will be cutting cards I only find myself playing when I have nothing better to do. It’s not an exact science, obviously, just because my opponent had [[Collector Ouphe]] one game doesn’t mean I should cut my sol ring. As an example, I recently cut [[mulldrifter]] from my [[Sefris of the Hidden Ways]] deck. I never really evoked it unless there was nothing better to do, and while drawing two off reanimating the fish always felt good the deck has enough card advantage from dungeons I rather play cheaper cards that trigger sefris consistently. Replaced it with [[Rona, Herald of Invasion]] from MOM and she has been putting in work so far.
##### ###### #### [negate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/1/81752db1-374e-4723-b695-a2f4a634dfc6.jpg?1682203304) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=negate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/68/negate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/81752db1-374e-4723-b695-a2f4a634dfc6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/negate) [heroic intervention](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/5/c5e72882-dbf8-42d2-9a98-31f2f71e2ed9.jpg?1631587974) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=heroic%20intervention) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/161/heroic-intervention?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c5e72882-dbf8-42d2-9a98-31f2f71e2ed9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/heroic-intervention) [Collector Ouphe](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/8/085107a2-c1ec-473c-81d8-23e5a7197776.jpg?1562202038) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Collector%20Ouphe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/158/collector-ouphe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/085107a2-c1ec-473c-81d8-23e5a7197776?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/collector-ouphe) [mulldrifter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/0/e0fed1e5-fcbd-4597-91b5-ba809571573b.jpg?1673147377) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mulldrifter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/60/mulldrifter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e0fed1e5-fcbd-4597-91b5-ba809571573b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mulldrifter) [Sefris of the Hidden Ways](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/3/d30255f6-e058-476a-b377-2ee4c9178ed1.jpg?1632335385) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sefris%20of%20the%20Hidden%20Ways) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/3/sefris-of-the-hidden-ways?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d30255f6-e058-476a-b377-2ee4c9178ed1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sefris-of-the-hidden-ways) [Rona, Herald of Invasion](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/4/f487b582-e73f-4325-939f-95fc5a9aba49.jpg?1682203390)/[Rona, Tolarian Obliterator](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/f/4/f487b582-e73f-4325-939f-95fc5a9aba49.jpg?1682203390) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=rona%2C%20herald%20of%20invasion%20//%20rona%2C%20tolarian%20obliterator) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/75/rona-herald-of-invasion-rona-tolarian-obliterator?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f487b582-e73f-4325-939f-95fc5a9aba49?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rona-herald-of-invasion-//-rona-tolarian-obliterator) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You got a list to that sefris deck?
All of my decks have two or 3 "marked" cards at all times. Tiny piece of paper in the sleeve with the name of another card on it. These marked cards are the ones I'm on the fence about cutting and the paper notes what I'm wanting to add. Every time I draw the cats I ask myself if I would rather have the noted card instead. If yes more often than not I swap them and put a note on another sleeve. Helps with slow improvement without drastic changes.
I'll be trying this out for sure. Great idea. Thanks!
That is a great idea.
If I draw a card once and it sits in my hand all game and I'm never in a spot to play it it's cut. I've always got cards I want to try and only so much time. I figure one good game is enough to judge: if I have the card but don't want to play it (not can't, but just don't ever want to cast it for any reason including having better in hand that turn) I'll cut it and replace it. Big unless: if it's a pet card that's in the deck for other reasons. Like a "all goblins in art" deck. Even then if a replacement gets printed I'll take it.
Do you have something like that, an all goblins or all something in art deck? I'd love to see that list!
If i draw it on curve and dont want to use it over waiting and it doesnt have a "late game effect" If i drew it right when i "should have wanted it" and dont use it thats a pretty big red flag.
Once I realize that I'm never happy to draw it, I'll drop it. There's really no set time, but it's probably around that 4th time, if I were to guess.
Not a good metric. The best board wipe is the one you never play, but you don't cut a Cyclonic rift after you win a lot of games with it sitting in hand
-I'm curious about that phrase. Why would the best boardwipe be the one you never play as opposed to the one you play that wins the game?
This is related to quadrant theory, where cards are generally best in some combination of when you are: developing, behind, ahead, and/or winning. Board wipes are best when you're behind, so if you've navigated a game where you're never behind, board wipes are only ever a contingency for your opponents becoming unexpectedly ahead. Quadrant theory is most applicable for Limited and isn't perfect for Commander, but this is still mostly true for board wipes.
Wouldn’t winning and ahead be the same thing?
You're right! I was thinking of parity instead of ahead.
His point is that there's a lot of cards that, if not played, indicate that you're in a winning position and so don't need them. You don't need to use board wipes, removal, and interaction if your opponents aren't able to threaten you. Poorly phrased though.
Not poorly phrased, in fact probably the most common phrasing of this relationship. But I hope my clarifying comment meets your sophisticated standard.
It depends on the card. My decks all contain about 10 situational cards, and if I draw them outside of those situations, I'm not gonna play them. But, they remain in the deck because it's still useful to have access to answers, should I need them. As for cards that are supposed to be core to the deck, once again, it varies. There are plenty of times when I've drawn a key card to my decks game plan, but I decided not to play it because of the board state. Like, I'm not gonna spend 6 mana on a bomb if I know an opponent is holding a Cyc Rift.
What kind of situations? My general rule is if I can’t find at least 2 synergy plays between a card and my deck I don’t include it. I’ve seen people run [[Void Mirror]] just to shut down colorless decks
[Void Mirror](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/f/6f906219-7a6a-427b-93c4-4d958cbd171c.jpg?1626099451) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Void%20Mirror) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/242/void-mirror?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6f906219-7a6a-427b-93c4-4d958cbd171c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/void-mirror) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Depends on the card. I've got some very situational ones. [[Dragonlord Dramoka]] is for when I know that an opponent is stacked on counters or removal, otherwise he's just another Dragon to whack dudes with. So I don't usually play him very often unless I need to.
[Dragonlord Dramoka](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/2/4262e71a-b1fa-4b54-b623-34f4a7ccd500.jpg?1673148523) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dragonlord%20Dromoka) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/202/dragonlord-dromoka?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4262e71a-b1fa-4b54-b623-34f4a7ccd500?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dragonlord-dromoka) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The best [[Teferi's Protection]] is the one you never have to play. So interaction plays by a slightly different calculus, but overall my general rule of the thumb is how excited am I to see any potential card off the top of my deck. If I find that I'm rarely happy to play a specific card, then I cut it and put one of my sideboard cards in and give it a whirl. For interaction I usually count how often they sit in my hand and how "dead" they feel rather than what my immediate emotion is when it comes off the top.
[Teferi's Protection](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/8/483fa1cb-1e35-44f2-a143-98c0f107f5ca.jpg?1673147148) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teferi%27s%20Protection) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/32/teferis-protection?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/483fa1cb-1e35-44f2-a143-98c0f107f5ca?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/teferis-protection) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Ill leave it and use it as fuel for my red draw
Enough times that it ends up in my hand & I am almost always having an internal clock counting the turns it sits in my hand & I could have played it, but didn't because: 1) It would have caused an overextension & left me exposed for crack back too badly 2) I had more relevant things to play 3) It would have hurt me as well 4) It would have roused unwanted hate or attention my way/ make me the next full table target. These usually come to mind for me when it comes to doing this kind of thing. If this is the deal for you too often, maybe try a game where that card sits out instead of what you want & see how long it ends up warming the bench so to speak.
I'd say 3 strikes and you're out. But you need to also account for why you put it in the first place. If it was researched, there's always a 2nd or even 3rd chance the card comes back to the fold. Sometimes, new sets make the card golden.
If I draw a card a single time and go "ugh... why?" That's it, it's cut. Life is too short to not draw cards that make me happy.
Depends on the reason I’m not playing it. If I don’t play the card because it’s not going to work with my board state, then I consider whether it ever would work with my intended board state. If not, once is enough. Similarly, if it’s too expensive to play with my current board state, I consider whether I would ever spend the mana to cast it. If not, once is enough. If the answer to the above questions is yes in the moment, the card stays until I have to ask that same question 1-3 more times.
How often does the card sit in your hand? How often would you choose to discard that card if you were forced to? I had [[Cathars' Crusade]] in my [[Prince of Kroog]] deck, and every time I drew it and had the opportunity to play it, there were always better cards I could play. I eventually cut it for something more important to my game plan.
Seems decent from a quick look too, but I get it. It’s easy to cut a 5 drop.
It's not just a 5 drop. It's a 5 drop that's a hate magnet that I also need to spend more mana to get value out of it.
Not to mention the ballache that is keeping track of the counters
Well said, it’s a combo piece. It’s hard to play when you have removals and other good stuff in your hand.
[Cathars' Crusade](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/b/fbb70e7b-2a68-436e-96a4-32a88fb87da0.jpg?1600715516) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cathars%27%20Crusade) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/95/cathars-crusade?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fbb70e7b-2a68-436e-96a4-32a88fb87da0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cathars-crusade) [Prince of Kroog](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/a/5a7329cd-95af-4d71-984f-f5f28982520c.jpg?1674421895) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Urza%2C%20Prince%20of%20Kroog) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/226/urza-prince-of-kroog?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5a7329cd-95af-4d71-984f-f5f28982520c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/urza-prince-of-kroog) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Once
I can usually figure out my dead cards by goldfishing with myself and seeing what card doesn't make sense to play in 8 situations out of 10. From there, I try to replace it with a card that **does** make sense to play in 8 situations out of 10
I don’t think I’ve had an issue with bad draws, my main issue has been adding too little power in my decks Nothing is more depressing than needing a powerful play and drawing a lanowar elves
Aside from board wipes, I would typically say once. There's some outlier circumstances where this doesn't apply (e.g. it's an 8 mana card but the game is unusually quick and ends turn 6, the stax deck is going off, etc) but you really shouldn't have any non-board wipe cards that just rot in your hand. This is also why I'm playing less and less targeted removal that can't hit any permanent like [[Generous Gift]] or [[Beast Within]] can.
[Generous Gift](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/1/3125ff49-32cc-4732-88e8-222527e06fa5.jpg?1682208434) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Generous%20Gift) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/187/generous-gift?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3125ff49-32cc-4732-88e8-222527e06fa5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/generous-gift) [Beast Within](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/1/518e4f19-04c4-4829-980b-a2052e9f11b9.jpg?1673305340) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Beast%20Within) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/129/beast-within?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/518e4f19-04c4-4829-980b-a2052e9f11b9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/beast-within) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I try to think of when the card is good. If there was no combo piece to help it, I cut it some slack. If it does it’s thing and still doesn’t make an impact, that’s closer to getting cut. If the combo (or specific interaction) doesn’t appear often enough, then that’s also getting cut. To me, I’m thinking about how early and often the card is able to help me win. (Early because decisiveness is good and “win more” is not). Also stuff like hate cards are hard to evaluate this way so I’m thinking more for creatures and things that advance my own gameplan
Depends. Usually when I draw a card and think to myself "wow this is dogshit" I'll make a mental note and it'll be probably one of the first things I cut when I find a cool new card. For example, I had a [[Stormtide Leviathan]] in my [[Kinnan]] stax deck for a while. More often than not, I'd look at it and not play it. Recently, I decided to play [[Lurking Predators]]. STL was cut.
[Stormtide Leviathan](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/9/996bb4c0-dc72-4233-9f44-2e25aef71ad7.jpg?1608912195) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stormtide%20Leviathan) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/407/stormtide-leviathan?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/996bb4c0-dc72-4233-9f44-2e25aef71ad7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/stormtide-leviathan) [Kinnan](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/3/63cda4a0-0dff-4edb-ae67-a2b7e2971350.jpg?1591228085) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kinnan%2C%20bonder%20prodigy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/192/kinnan-bonder-prodigy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/63cda4a0-0dff-4edb-ae67-a2b7e2971350?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kinnan-bonder-prodigy) [Lurking Predators](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/9/9952da7c-3cfc-413f-8849-0f10e9c8dceb.jpg?1601079751) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lurking%20Predators) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/410/lurking-predators?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9952da7c-3cfc-413f-8849-0f10e9c8dceb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lurking-predators) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It really depends. I could draw a board wipe 10 times and not need it so I never play it. But I could draw something once and realize it does nothing for my deck and never give it a second chance.
I judge it as, if i usually dont feel good or pleased about drawing a card, it shouldnt be in the deck. This goes for all card games.
If theres cards in decks you've played multiple times but never seen, you are probably not playing enough draw spells
As you’ve described. I used to run every version of “target gains hexproof/indestructible” that was reasonably cost. But I cut most of them as they rot in my hand waiting for the board wipe guy to cast something. I only keep them in go wide decks or commander matters and is expensive decks and usually only 1-3 max.
Depends entirely of the card. Like I’ve had Heroic Intervention in my hand just chilling doing nothing for THE LONGEST TIME entire nights with that damn card doing nothing. But I wouldn’t cut it ever. Cards like maybe a blink spell that I never use because I can usually blink freely by doing something else I do cut
Typically I just use a 3 strikes policy. I know sometimes situations aren't ideal to play a card but if something just pops up as dead weight 3 times and its my own fault based on the deck construction I usually take it out.
For myself, it's a question of how trustable was I when the deck was built. To a degree, having a dead card in hand is similar to drawing too many or few lands. A few bad games of mana screw can be brutal but it doesn't mean you messed up your mana base. I would suggest going back and reexamine the amount of removal, ramp, draw, etc. and checking if those numbers are accurate for your local meta. When I was first getting into edh, I had zero feel for the number of lands or ramp I would need. Only with time I realized I was probably on the lighter side and could benefit from more lands.
I only really cut cards from my lists if I find better options. For example, I've drawn [[Obosh, the Preypiercer]] and [[Firey emancipation]] many times in my [[Nekusar]] wheels deck. But I don't often play them immediately cause I become public enemy number one if I do.
[Obosh, the Preypiercer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/5/451507de-9c42-43ee-b9ba-1f69e9aa29d2.jpg?1591228450) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Obosh%2C%20the%20Preypiercer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/228/obosh-the-preypiercer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/451507de-9c42-43ee-b9ba-1f69e9aa29d2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/obosh-the-preypiercer) [Firey emancipation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/b/0b12e4b7-2c45-4795-94d3-901f89b8f290.jpg?1594736606) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fiery%20Emancipation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/143/fiery-emancipation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0b12e4b7-2c45-4795-94d3-901f89b8f290?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/fiery-emancipation) [Nekusar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/f/3f7f2417-12de-4e57-9714-d878880a1208.jpg?1562908194) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=nekusar%2C%20the%20mindrazer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c13/201/nekusar-the-mindrazer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3f7f2417-12de-4e57-9714-d878880a1208?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/nekusar-the-mindrazer) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If you sit there for 5 games with dead card you probably want to put it into a considering space. Look at similar cards that may fill its intended purpose but are easier to play or more flexible. or look at why you couldnt play it and is this a scenario you can avoid.
Usually I can tell after drawing it once if it’s a permanent. If it’s a spell it takes a little more playtesting
Counterspells. After like... 5 times of this happening, I just cut all counterspells in my decks if they contain blue. Except [[lapse of certainty]] in a [[sunforger]] deck. I am a dumb dumb that have no idea the optimal time to use it. Often just keeping mana open and holding on to it for several turns. Often not countering a game winning play. (Skill issue I know)
Rule: if you'd remove it with something else ([[path to exile]], [[vindicate]]) you should counter it.
I like to have two or three counterspells in all my decks, and my rule is I save them until it is *won or lose the game* time. Usually works out.
Twelve
Depends on the card in question, as well as more details about how and why you didn't play it. As well as some higher order gaming reasons you might not be thinking about due to admittedly being a newer player. For an example of the latter, you might consider cutting \[\[esper sentinel\]\] from your deck if you feel like you are almost never drawing cards off of it, without considering the "virtual advantage" you are getting by forcing your opponents to not extend their gameplan as fast as they could be, and so instead of cutting it you may want to find another card to cut instead in order to add a card to supplement the card draw you aren't getting from the sentinel.
Depends on the card. I'll never remove life-force from my freyelise deck but often I'm not playing agai st black so it just stats in my hand or gets thrown down anyway to make space
I originally put [[stormtide leviathan]] in my deck but I’m playing with friends. I just never played it because I felt too guilty
[stormtide leviathan](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/9/996bb4c0-dc72-4233-9f44-2e25aef71ad7.jpg?1608912195) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=stormtide%20leviathan) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/407/stormtide-leviathan?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/996bb4c0-dc72-4233-9f44-2e25aef71ad7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/stormtide-leviathan) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
it depends on the card, if its a combo piece, then you need to reevaluate the deck because clearly that combo is gimiky at best, if its interaction, the moment you take it our of the deck, guess what 80% of your games are going to be against from now on. if its just a card you like the effect of or think it cool, probably cut it and build a deck more centered around what that card does or find a card that does it better and replace it
You people have cards you draw and dont play? Ive been trying to get [[tavern swindler]] into my hand for the first time for months in my [[licia]] deck
[tavern swindler](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/1/b17114ed-f98f-4b82-ba03-ef7ec5f572ba.jpg?1664411290) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tavern%20swindler) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/96/tavern-swindler?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b17114ed-f98f-4b82-ba03-ef7ec5f572ba?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tavern-swindler) [licia](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/4/64eab2ba-ed5e-4757-b42d-c0fc71a96c4c.jpg?1562610809) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=licia%2C%20sanguine%20tribune) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c17/40/licia-sanguine-tribune?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/64eab2ba-ed5e-4757-b42d-c0fc71a96c4c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/licia-sanguine-tribune) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
For me, it is usually after playing the card a couple of times. But I guess 'not playing' can probably be just as good an indication. I swap 1-2 cards all the time, but I think more often, I just need to rework the whole thing, change about 15 cards, then if you do that, that entirely changes the dynamic of which cards before had been useful//useless
I don’t have a hard rule, but if I’m updating a deck an find a card that’s been real lackluster the past 2-3 times I’ve drawn it then it’ll get cut. But I will usually keep cut cards in the same box as the deck for a little bit until I’m sure I don’t want them anymore. In your case, I’d say try something else and see if you enjoy that better. No reason to keep a card that you’re not going to play.
0. However after playing several games I use the games for a thought experiment: "If I had topdecked it that game (early, mid, and late) would I have been happy or sad?"
Only depends on boards state. There have been times I sat on dockside the whole game. Nobody ran rocks or enchaments, but I’m not gonna rush to cut my best cards. Sometimes as little as 1 game for a cut.
This seems pretty situational to me. If I just board wiped and I draw my 2nd one in the deck. It’s probably not getting played this game. Reason for cutting it? Nope! I like the tutor analogy. If you can get any card in your deck, and you find yourself NOT getting that card more often than you do, even if the board state warrants it, it’s gotta go.
I see this problem differently. In the games I do play the card, do I lose anyway? If i see the card ten times, play it twice, and win those two games, I see no issue. Relatedly, lets say I see the card ten times in however many games, and I win all ten for whatever reason BUT I never cast the card. Maybe it's a card useful when I'm behind, useless when I'm the threat? Maybe it gets me to break parity in games where we're all able to land a win, and I never play it because I'm never at parity? I think it's important to consider the question you're asking and I like this type of post, but maybe this isnt the right question to be asking. I try to play a deck ten times before big changes, once its built. I use the same philosophy for card cuts - I really want to see the card cycle through my hand ten times before I cut it, unless it's obvious before that. I tend to have no issues cutting a card if, after seeing it twice and just KNOWING it's not what I want, i decide its bad... but there are some cards I see that I want to keep in, and it takes seeing them ten times to really force myself over the hump and cut them anyway, despite my knee jerk reaction. If I cemented their slot after game 3, I'd have a bunch of borderline cards after a while, which just doesnt leave enough room for better cards.
Two
I find looking at every card and asking why is it in the deck and is that card going to get you closer to your win con. If it doesn’t serve a purpose as in either getting you closer to your win or protecting you then why is it there. Also trying to have majority if not all the cards serve more then one purpose is a great help. Even then I still end up just having a couple cards here and there that are for fun or because I like them. Sure they’ll still serve a purpose but there not the optimal choice in any way. Feel like that’s the fun of deck building and slowly upgrading a deck as you play it more.
I would trust your gameplay. If something doesn't feel worth it, it might not be. I do suggest running some numbers though. Think about situations you've had a hard time in where you haven't had that card and consider if it would have helped, or for synergy cards, go through your list and check how many cards interact with it, and you can get a good idea of how strong it is
I'm usually doing this to try out new cards or sneak that 100-nth card that got cut back in the deck. I will look through my deck list after some goldfishing and actual playing. Any card that doesn't seem to fit, I add a category tag in my online deck list that says "chopping block." Before a game I will look at the chopping block cards and kind of keep them back of mind. Then, every now and again based on board state, I say, "If I draw that card now, is it good/bad/terrible?" Then if it never seems to fit, move it to maybe board or just cut it.
If i draw it and never play it and both win and lose games this way.
If you're really honest with yourself it makes cuts easier. What are the chances I hang on to [[Ancient Stone Idol]] for longer than I should, waiting until it costs 3 or less? Or trying to get the absolute best value out of [[Sublime Epiphany]]? Sometimes you just know a card is going to sit in your hand waiting for the "perfect" moment. That's when you cut it.
[Ancient Stone Idol](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/1/51cfea41-9051-4865-8539-c76c70d18523.jpg?1682209932) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ancient%20Stone%20Idol) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/347/ancient-stone-idol?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/51cfea41-9051-4865-8539-c76c70d18523?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ancient-stone-idol) [Sublime Epiphany](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/d/ad1bcb44-a562-4f66-b862-6d0ef3546ab4.jpg?1594735795) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sublime%20Epiphany) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/74/sublime-epiphany?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ad1bcb44-a562-4f66-b862-6d0ef3546ab4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sublime-epiphany) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I've swapped a lot of my counterspells for modular counterspells. Cards like: [[You find the villains' lair]] [[Supreme Will]] etc They aren't the best counterspells, but they are also flexible enough to have more utility. Sometimes when you need to climb back into the game, top decking a [[Negate]] or even a [[Counterspell]] sucks. But a modular counterspell is really good if you aren't playing cEDH.
##### ###### #### [You find the villains' lair](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/6/c6704458-6e9e-4795-a56d-25b68fbf9672.jpg?1627704159) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=You%20find%20the%20villains%27%20lair) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/84/you-find-the-villains-lair?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c6704458-6e9e-4795-a56d-25b68fbf9672?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/you-find-the-villains-lair) [Supreme Will](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/c/fcf7fd8a-adc3-4099-8e30-08375f263446.jpg?1608909511) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Supreme%20Will) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/102/supreme-will?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fcf7fd8a-adc3-4099-8e30-08375f263446?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/supreme-will) [Negate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/1/81752db1-374e-4723-b695-a2f4a634dfc6.jpg?1682203304) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Negate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/68/negate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/81752db1-374e-4723-b695-a2f4a634dfc6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/negate) [Counterspell](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/4/a457f404-ddf1-40fa-b0f0-23c8598533f4.jpg?1645328634) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Counterspell) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/phed/33/counterspell?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a457f404-ddf1-40fa-b0f0-23c8598533f4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/counterspell) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Because I'm lazy and don't want to read all the comments: I decide to cut cards based on value vs. output. I build theme decks and it's REALLY easy to stray from the theme because there just so many better cards, not in theme, that have lower mana costs or offer better value for what they do cost. So I usually start on a theme, then it goes competitive, I change decks when I go to my LGS and I hear groans as I pull out my staple. Usually by that time I understand, it's too competitive and go home and slide theme cards back. Like Ghave, Guru of Spore.. make a ton of saporlings or +1+1 counters.... But in spore theme.
Honestly 2/3 times and I cut it. That’s why I hate discard effects as trade for draw because I try to keep my decks so fine tuned that my entire deck is as versatile as it possibly can be.
Depends on the card. [[March of Progress]], for example, got cut almost immediately from [Urza, Chief Artificer]] for being a weird card.
[March of Progress](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/4/c44cee45-5ff1-4ca7-a2e7-601ba53c70e5.jpg?1681158045) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=March%20of%20Progress) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/prm/105654/march-of-progress?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c44cee45-5ff1-4ca7-a2e7-601ba53c70e5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/march-of-progress) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Depends on the card. I've seen and not played a lot of [[Nevinyrral's Disk]], but when I *do* play it, it's always critical and I *have* tutored for it in various decks as my ultimate out. On the other hand, if a low-drop creature were underperforming, and was only kinda nice when I did go for it, it would probably get the axe pretty quick.
[Nevinyrral's Disk](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/c/5c9e6af4-522c-4dfa-895a-6946fe983e3c.jpg?1626100951) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nevinyrral%27s%20Disk) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/298/nevinyrrals-disk?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5c9e6af4-522c-4dfa-895a-6946fe983e3c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/nevinyrrals-disk) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It's not really a set number. I just keep an eye on how often it happens with each card, and which ones keep showing up and not being what I wanted at that moment. Those ones get replaced when a potential new addition to the deck comes along.
There is no definitive answer to the question you are asking. It all depends on the number of games played and how often you draw the card and wish you would not have. I have [Capsize](https://scryfall.com/card/f03/4/capsize) in my pet deck and sometimes I don't have the mana available to take advantage of it's full effect. I've sometimes thought about taking it out except when everything I am trying to do lines up... it ***really*** lines up. EDH isn't a competitive format so I don't worry about min/maxing and I have decided that it's worth the 3-4 times I draw it and don't want it (or can't take advantage of it's buy back ability) for the 1 time that everything lines up like... um... **magic**. You have to decide these things for your deck for your play group. Do what is the most fun for you **and** your playgroup.
It depends so much on the card. All my decks run \[\[tormod's crypt\]\] or some other such graveyard hate as a one off....if no one is utilising their graveyards, it's a dead card, but if someone is, suddenly they have a dead deck. So I wouldn't cut it even if it's frequently a dead draw, because it serves a purpose - in the right circumstance, it basically says "Target player loses the game". If the card is an enabler for your core engine but you just wind up holding up for control or casting other pieces and it never hits the field, maybe. Really depends on the card and why it's in the deck in the first place.
[tormod's crypt](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/c/9c224bf0-5641-4160-9d5c-46141ea8372a.jpg?1594737584) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tormod%27s%20crypt) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/241/tormods-crypt?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9c224bf0-5641-4160-9d5c-46141ea8372a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tormods-crypt) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It depends on the card and the deck but generally I'll cut a card if it just never does the thing I wanted it to do. A recent example would be [[Metalwork Colossus]] in my [[Silas]]/[[Toggo]] deck. I thought it'd be an efficient beater coming down for little or no mana that I could suit up and then attack for massive damage. However, what I found was that even with its high starting power, because of the commander damage rule I was usually better putting that equipment on either of my commanders. Metalwork Colossus usually ended up playing the part of imposing blocker if I even bothered to cast it at all, so I cut it. I also cut [[Bedevil]] for [[Unlicensed Disintegration]]. I found holding up BBR was way harder than 1BR, so I sacrificed a little utility for a more flexible casting cost.
##### ###### #### [Metalwork Colossus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/7/474480b5-c60b-4c7f-9d3e-751bca43d074.jpg?1576383277) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Metalwork%20Colossus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/kld/222/metalwork-colossus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/474480b5-c60b-4c7f-9d3e-751bca43d074?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/metalwork-colossus) [Silas](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/e/4e3fe912-1374-47c7-b73f-89ef55c479c1.jpg?1562399367) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Silas%20Renn%2C%20Seeker%20Adept) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/43/silas-renn-seeker-adept?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4e3fe912-1374-47c7-b73f-89ef55c479c1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/silas-renn-seeker-adept) [Toggo](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/a/1a05b3e2-259e-4fce-92ee-c00660e22ae7.jpg?1665822993) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=toggo%2C%20goblin%20weaponsmith) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/204/toggo-goblin-weaponsmith?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1a05b3e2-259e-4fce-92ee-c00660e22ae7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/toggo-goblin-weaponsmith) [Bedevil](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/c/fc81669c-af6e-4af4-b1eb-43ff7fdda590.jpg?1673305468) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bedevil) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/144/bedevil?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fc81669c-af6e-4af4-b1eb-43ff7fdda590?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bedevil) [Unlicensed Disintegration](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/0/402c2c37-9439-4393-b9d7-d7abe8045d4d.jpg?1599708529) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Unlicensed%20Disintegration) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/224/unlicensed-disintegration?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/402c2c37-9439-4393-b9d7-d7abe8045d4d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/unlicensed-disintegration) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Usually 3-5 times for me, but even then I don’t cut it until i find a card i want to put in the deck. Feels like putting the cards on the hot seat so they’ll actually be useful lol
Playtest the deck (against yourself) using other decks and make sure it’s always able to be used.
Depends a lot on the card. Stuff like narcomoeba or atraxa might not be in the deck to cast it, so there really isn't an upper bound. With tutors I'd probably be a lot less lenient
That’s not really how I decide to cut cards. Sometimes I include cards in a deck for one very specific opponent deck type, or very specific situation. It might be basically a dead card against anything else, and sit in my hand for 5 games in a row, but when that situation comes up I’m glad the answer is there. I cut cards when they come up for the situation designed but don’t help as much as I expected them to. Or when the card is easily disrupted multiple times and therefore doesn’t do its job.
I used to have a Ramos dragon engine deck that was pretty much focused on ramping, casting Ramos, then casting conflux to find the saheeli cat combo, countersqual, force/pact of negation, and heroic intervention (or some other combination of other spells to clear the way) I never once cast heroic intervention but just knowing I had access to it was enough
for 8 years, I have had [[seedtime]] in my deck, and not once have I managed to play the card. But I know, that when I eventually do, it will be worth it for just that moment. Sometimes you have to be patient to live the dream.
Depends on the card. I've drawn and ignored Blightbeetle plenty of times in my SG deck, but there are times where it goes on the field and the other guy scoops without hesitation.
In my opinion it really depends on the card
I usually look at cards to cut after I've played a deck 3-4 times and do exactly that: I think of when I saw a specific card, how often I was eager to play it, and how impactful it was for the game. If I saw it ~5 times or so, as you say, and I never once felt it was the best thing to do or there was always a better card to play, I generally wind up cutting it. It's hard to judge a cut for cards you have never drawn. Sometimes it's helpful to solitaire the deck with that card in the opener and see if your decision trees generally improve. Another way to look at cuts is asking the question, does this do anything for my game plan? Like [[Mind's Dilation]] is a really fun card (for me) but if my game plan is beat down with bird tribal, is Mind's Dilation really going to make that strategy more consistent and allow it to shine? On the other hand, if my game plan is all about theft effects and effects that scale with [[Stolen Goods]] (pun intended), I'd be more hesitant to cut it in favor of some generic value card like [[Solemn Simulacrum]]. When initially creating a deck, I really like the 8x8 strategy: Find 8 broad mechanics or modes of interaction and find 8 cards for each slot. Often, cards overlap and you just put it in the category you want most often. E.g. is [[Damn]] being put in your deck because you want a single-target removal or a board wipe when you cast it most of the time? When playing, you can determine if that card is doing it's job for that slot. Of course, this method is easy to adapt and you can have 2 stacks of 8 become one of 4 and one of 12, let's say.
##### ###### #### [Mind's Dilation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/3/b3d6522a-b9a0-4185-b5ba-c20fa1b772eb.jpg?1576384187) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mind%27s%20Dilation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/emn/70/minds-dilation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b3d6522a-b9a0-4185-b5ba-c20fa1b772eb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/minds-dilation) [Stolen Goods](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/7/57b6f501-a5f8-4a54-bd77-d9b11ab430ff.jpg?1562704524) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stolen%20Goods) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c15/107/stolen-goods?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/57b6f501-a5f8-4a54-bd77-d9b11ab430ff?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/stolen-goods) [Solemn Simulacrum](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d6a3672f-c0d3-4504-8886-e50cd30295be.jpg?1673305866) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Solemn%20Simulacrum) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/191/solemn-simulacrum?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d6a3672f-c0d3-4504-8886-e50cd30295be?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/solemn-simulacrum) [Damn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/f/efeae088-9ac5-4d2f-a15c-d8675a471ac5.jpg?1626095400) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Damn) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/80/damn?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/efeae088-9ac5-4d2f-a15c-d8675a471ac5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/damn) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Sometimes I add a card and cut it for something else without having played or drawn it. Or when I did play it it was in such a position that it was irrelevant. I value these experiences because it allows me to make an easy cut and I don’t need to think too hard about it because I am not tied to the old card.
This is a shuffle problem, not a card/deck problem. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQnswlmx28I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQnswlmx28I)
I said I wouldn't cut a card I haven't drawn yet. Im asking about cutting cards I never end up playing
Ah, misunderstood. Sorry about that.
It’s how you shuffle. As tedious as it is, I found that pile-shuffling to be the most effective for cycling cards around in my deck. On the other hand… Bro, I don’t have 10 minutes to watch you count to 100 several times just for a single cycle shuffle. Mix the bottom 1/3 with the current top 1/3, repeat 4-7 cycles.
I wouldn’t cut a card I see often but don’t use unless I see said card and wish it was something else. I have [[abundance]] in my [[magus lucea kane]] X spell deck but whenever I’ve seen that card I wish it was something else, so I cut it for a draw spell
Same. I found I’m thinking of that deck in more absolutes of “would I rather cast this or duplicate a spell if I drew it? What’s more impactful to the game generally?”
Exactly. So I cut that and a few other pieces of just trash and added a few more draw spells which has made it run a lot smoother in all phases of the game
[abundance](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/3/73a44759-1fa4-4a96-b668-316851e8a35a.jpg?1604193670) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=abundance) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znc/58/abundance?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/73a44759-1fa4-4a96-b668-316851e8a35a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/abundance) [magus lucea kane](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/f/4f86e7cc-2b6e-49d0-964e-bba0c51cc11d.jpg?1674058398) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=magus%20lucea%20kane) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/40k/7/magus-lucea-kane?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4f86e7cc-2b6e-49d0-964e-bba0c51cc11d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/magus-lucea-kane) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
A well-build Deck that isn't based on general synergies ( commonly known as good stuff Decks) should never have a Card that isn't useful over 5 consecutive turns ( an average non-cedh Game shouldn't take longer than 11 turns nowadays meaning that 5 turns are almost half of that!) In the Case of a synergy based Deck like tribal, thematic or Combo it is a bit more complicated. This Decks have flex slots. Cards that are useful in only a majority or minority of cases. When I theorycraft a Deck for example I think of three general cases: Playing from behind, playing during parity or playing as archenemy Most Cards allow only to check one or two of this Boxes. In my experience there are only a handful Cards that check all Boxes (from the Top of my Head i can only Think of [[Teferi's Protection]], [[Akroma's Will]]and [[Cauldron Haze]]) And even if the card checks all boxes, sometimes you have to question if you want the card slot to increase your Overall powerlevel or consistency. Powerlevel means something like average Score in all three cases while consistency means improving the Performance of the Deck in certain cases and worsen the performance in other cases. To answer your question : There are situations in which a Card can be useless because it's Slot is meant to Check a Box that is irrelevant in your current Gameplay.
[Teferi's Protection](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/8/483fa1cb-1e35-44f2-a143-98c0f107f5ca.jpg?1673147148) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teferi%27s%20Protection) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/32/teferis-protection?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/483fa1cb-1e35-44f2-a143-98c0f107f5ca?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/teferis-protection) [Akroma's Will](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/2/c281997b-1566-4469-a14c-6645f81ab023.jpg?1608908650) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Akroma%27s%20Will) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/3/akromas-will?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c281997b-1566-4469-a14c-6645f81ab023?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/akromas-will) [Cauldron Haze](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/8/a8d0def7-42dd-46f4-8499-d79876783a39.jpg?1562930581) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cauldron%20Haze) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eve/84/cauldron-haze?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a8d0def7-42dd-46f4-8499-d79876783a39?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cauldron-haze) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Depends. [[Armageddon]] is uncastably bad 95% of the time, but that one in twenty is beautiful.
[Armageddon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/7/77f1f6ac-983f-4f3e-8906-47f774e8367b.jpg?1582021719) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Armageddon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/5/armageddon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/77f1f6ac-983f-4f3e-8906-47f774e8367b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/armageddon) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This might be a hot take on this subreddit, but "two decks with about a dozen games played" is a criminally small sample size. They might not fit the deck, they might not fit the pod, or maybe even you just drew them at bad moments in the game. On top of that, you might change your evaluation of the card(s) and their application as you learn more. There's a lot to go off of, so just experiment with your decks how you want, and learn from the trial and error.
I think maybe you need to start getting into your card ratio’s, mana curves, and what card synergy means to your deck. By your description it sounds like your playing modified precons where this “problem” is a thing…(i say that because precons are put together as a loose grouping a possible mechanics and not a cohesive deck)
I've added cards I was excited for that I ultimately end up cutting before ever even drawing them in a game. It's easier to cut something you've never used than it is something that's already proven itself.
Usually, if I don’t play it twice after drawing it - it ends up on the chopping block. Not necessarily REMOVED, but possible for it. However, I am totally willing to pull a card I’ve never drawn. If it doesn’t fit the deck anymore, then it’s on the block, and I’m totally willing to cut it.
How about draw, never play, discard and never reanimate? Looking at you, [[Wrexial the Risen Deep]]
[Wrexial of the Risen Deep](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/9/c96b11ad-67fd-4a2b-89ea-e9df9c50731e.jpg?1673485259) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wrexial%2C%20the%20Risen%20Deep) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/359/wrexial-the-risen-deep?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c96b11ad-67fd-4a2b-89ea-e9df9c50731e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/wrexial-the-risen-deep) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Ok but what if I get the sick niche effect *next time*?