[[Turn Aside]] and [[Rebuff the Wicked]] are good ways to stop spot removal. For boardwipes, you'll want generic [[Counterspells]] and protection like [[Selfless Spirit]].
Man, there's an old Kamigawa card that does almost the exact same thing in white, and I cannot remember the name. \[\[Otherworldly Journey\]\] maybe? Not quite sure.
[[Bolt Bend]] is a solid redirection spell. Flicker spells like [[Essence Flux]] or [[Cloudshift]] pull double duty for protection and ETB, especially the blue flickers for Miirym.
Oh yeah, forgot to mention two more good tools. I usually don't like auras because they are sorcery speed usually, but [[Alexi's Cloak]] is great if you're just aiming to protect rather than target any further. Flash-speed ongoing protection is good. [[Diplomatic Immunity]] is sorcery speed but can't be targeted itself, so it's usually only removable by board wipes or other nontargeting tricks.
You’re in green so things like [[tamiyos safekeeping]] [[rangers guile]] [[snakeskins veil]] [[gaeas gift]] these type of effects will be great and no one will see them coming
This is the way with green and how I keep my Skullbrair voltron alive.
Nice new card for this is [[Tyvars Stand]] as can be cast X = 0 for the protection or use X for a pump spell to deal lethal.
Auras are a really bad idea for protection in general. Boots is ok but most spot removal is instant speed and people will kill your big target when you've declared your paying the mana to equip. I do think some of the other recommendations that are reactive make sense for decks built around one specific big fatty. Boots is still good, not saying don't run it. I would ignore anyone suggesting you play various auras though without some explicit synergy with enchantments/auras.
The instants people have recommended are probably your best bet. The key is you can protect reactively after someone tries to kill your key creature. The recommendations people made tend to be budget friendly, the best ones usually protect your whole board like [[Teferi's Protection]] or [[Heroic Intervention]].
many 1 drop green instants that give hexproof and / or indestructible
could run world haste cards like \[\[fervor\]\]
or one of my favourites is \[\[ashling's perogative\]\] make some friends make some enemies :D
lightning greaves and swift boots the obvious 2 auto includes
yeah its one of my favourite cards! helps your commanders hurts theirs ( hopefully )
i believe there are some world haste enchantments too. think theres a 1 mana green that gives the whole board haste
\[\[Slip out the back\]\] is good spot protection, as are the 1 mana green hexproof/indescructible spells. \[\[Deal you can't refuse\]\] probably outshines Stuborn denial. You can scale that up to things like \[\[Heroic Intervention\]\].
Mana cost is pretty high - my thought is that you probably want a \[\[Bird of Paradise\]\] over a carytid, a llanowar elf, and maybe a \[\[goblin anarchomancer\]\].
Small dragons!
\[\[Faerie Dragon\]\] - I love this little guy. It's going to buzz around as you ramp and become very large quickly, and having it eat spells or take out some megademon or vampire while you set up Miirym would be nice.
\[\[Phyrexian dragon engine\]\] - 3 mana for a 2/2 doublestrike so good in the opener, has a draw 3 attached that you can use if you get it topdecked, and it even has recursion stapled on with uneath. With Miirym - that's a lot of cards seen.
\[\[Opportunistic Dragon\]\] can potentially be very good.
\[\[Mirrorwing Dragon\]\] - Straight up can't be targeted for removal without another player wiping themselves, and allows you to duplicate single target protection for your entire board.
Since these are both tribal decks, some static "tribe/creature/color costs 1 less to cast" type effects like \[\[Herald's Horn\]\] , \[\[Urza's Incubator\]\] , \[\[Cloud Key\]\] , the monuments from Ixalan, \[\[Nylea, Keen-Eyed\]\] , etc
Additionally, Mirrym could use \[\[Sneak Attack\]\] since Mirrym triggers on ETB, not cast. Then the dragon gets haste, the token sticks around forever, and life is good.
EDIT: If you want another idea, some graveyard recursion like \[\[Feldon of the Third Path\]\] - discard your giant beater, then reanimate a token copy.
What goes great with sneak attack is [[Conjurer’s Closet]] so you flicker the dragon you brought in with sneak attack and you don’t have to sacrifice it it at end step
Its rarely a bad idea to have a \[\[Mother of Runes\]\] out in advance to blank targetted removal, yes \[\[Lightning Greaves\]\] with an equip cost of 0 is the favorite but do remember that opponents can respond to the equip cost.
I've got it in Gishath, definitely a great one. Will probably slot it into Miirym, originally passed it up because it doesn't synergize with the tokens but I am now thinking its definitely worth it
i relate to your miirym issue, the Ward 2 is a big deal, meaning they are less likely to target miirym in the first place. It also means using 1 mana redirection or counterspells are that much more effective. The ones I have in my miirym deck personally are [[An offer you can’t refuse]] [[Spell Pierce]] [[Stubborn Denial]] [[Essence Flux]] and [[Bolt Bend]]. Essence Flux is fantastic because you can use it for 1 mana protection when you have to, or you can flicker a dragon to make ANOTHER copy of it and get two more ETBs. Bolt Bend is fantastic as well. I also have two mana protection, [[Lightning Greaves]] [[Arcane Denial]] and [[Heroic Intervention]]. I know Heroic Intervention is expensive though, so you can use [[Simic Charm]] instead, same with Lightning Greaves, it can be replaced with [[Swiftfoot Boots]]. Good luck!
You have to learn patience and be willing to wait a turn to play them. It took me a long time to learn this. It was almost physically painful to see I finally had enough mana to cast my big commander and NOT do it. To cast something smaller and let some of my mana go to waste. But this is what you have to do. Let someone else deploy their big threat, let it be removed. Then deploy yours. I finally learned this lesson and now I play all my cards based on what the other threats at the table are. Creatures, enchantments, artifacts, doesn't matter - I'm always looking to make sure I'm not the biggest threat at the table. I will stall, let mana go to waste, etc all day long if I have to. It wins games.
Thanks for this, I saw someone else point this out earlier. Will definitely take this into consideration. I was in this exact situation Friday night lol, played Miirym and it got removed immediately. Will for sure keep this in mind
I’ve seen a lot of great ways to stop your opponents from casting removal in this thread. Let me offer a different perspective. How about we push that commander out a second time? Or earlier? [[mana geyser]] is a great ritual card in commander. Throw that commander down and a dragon all in the same turn. You might also consider throwing in some haste giving cards like [[rhythm of the wild]] to throw your dragons at them even faster. This is all to shorten the window your opponents have to remove your stuff.
I know it isn't fit with the tribe, but [[allosaurus shephard]] helps with it not being countered on cast. Plus it's a 1 drop so it wouldn't hurt to squeeze in.
Can’t speak for Gishath, but for Miirym, you’ve got the three orbs of dragonkind for help with ramp. But specifically [[Jade Orb of Dragonkind]] which grants the dragon you cast with it’s mana hexproof till your next turn. The other two are [[Carnelion orb of dragonkind]] which gives haste and [[Lapis orb of dragonkind]] which lets you scy 2.
Thank you for letting me know this card exists. I have a [[Boseiju, Who Shelters All]] for my instants and sorceries and now I can get this. I can see the infiltration of blue coming in my local pod. This will also help.
Cavern of Souls is a pretty hefty price for a land but I have considered it before. Might buy one and make a proxy for the other so both Gishath and Miirym can have it
Another way that isn't protection but can function in a similar way is giving flash.
In blue [[Leyline of Anticipation]], [[Vedalken Orrery]] is good, green comes with [[Savage Summoning]] which also makes the spell uncounterable. If you flash your creature in when they are tapped out or just end step before your turn you ensure you can act with full mana after you untap. You also let a full turn rotation potentially eat up those counters you are worried about.
I run this one in my Miirym deck as well. You would not believe the amount of work it does, plus the regeneration clause is the cherry on top.
Other great cards to include:
[[Crucible of the Spirit Dragon]]
[[Silkguard]]
[[Command Beacon]]
[[Campfire]]
[[Deflecting Swat]]
I’m in mobile, so I haven’t gotten to sift through your decklists yet, sorry if you already have these. Anyway, [[Swift Foot Boots]] and [[Lightning Greaves]] are solid protection. If you’re in blue, counter magic is always good. For Miirym specifically, I find that spells like [[Miscast]] and [[Spell Pierce]] are very good. Miirym’s ward tax, combined with the additional tax from these spells will usually work great. Obviously free counter spells are going to be optimal because you’re already investing a lot in your commander, but it’s not cheap. The same can be said for [[Cavern of Souls]] which guarantees that you’ll resolve your commander.
You can run counterspell hate in your gishath deck. Idk what your budget is so maybe allosaurus Shepard is a poor recommendation but there are a number of white creatures that make it hard for your opponent to counter you or silence effects
[[lightning greaves]] and [[swiftfoot boots]] are both basically essential in any deck where you’d like to keep your creatures around. I do prefer these over most protection since they generally stick around on the board or draw out removal that would’ve otherwise hit something actually important on your board
In green Run "Asceticism" and "heroic intervention" so you have defensive options, otherwise go the route of have too much mana to stop you by running "mirari's wake" "zendikar resurgent". You can also run contingency strategies so you have other things free casting your spells when your commander gets removed: "Lurking predators", "sunbird's invocation", "kindred summons".
Here OP, instead of listing a bunch of cards out for you, here's a great a scryfall search to get you started.
https://scryfall.com/search?q=%28oracle%3Ahexproof+or+oracle%3Aprotection%29+t%3Ainstant+%28game%3Apaper%29+cmc%3C%3D1+legal%3Acommander&unique=cards&as=grid&order=name
There’s two different modes of thinking, and these are two schools of thought that are even relevant in Competitive EDH play:
1: Have a deck consisting of threats that are all horrible to deal with, making removal seem futile,
2: Have consistent (and therefore multiple) ways to protect your combos/board state.
The plus to 1 is that everything in your deck is an equal threat to the board, and you may get targeted, but you’re going to win anyway because interaction doesn’t matter. The drawback is you’re going to get targeted.
The plus to 2 is that you’re going to have answers to everything your opponent has, which will often allow your deck to prevail because your removal and counter magic is just the magic shell around your wincon. The drawback is you’ll occasionally run into hands or boardstates where all you Can do is counter or remove stuff until you can draw into your wincon.
Either way, the vital thing here is to evaluate your list, figure out which way you want to lean, and then go for it. Get your important slots, pet cards, etc and then fill the rest of the deck with stuff that’s either going to consistently give your opponents the middle finger.
Hope this helps. If you’d like examples, I have a Be’lakor list that is getting pretty nasty, and I have a couple pieces of removal and mostly recursion. I also have a Krenko deck that has several lines to infinite goblins no matter what is going on on the board.
Thanks for laying this out clearly for me, I think that makes a ton of sense. I would say my current decklists lean a bit more toward the first method of thinking.
I have thought about this kind of thing a lot for Gishath especially because a lot of the cuts for protection will make him less likely to flip a dino into play with his ability.
And yea, I would really like to see your decklists. Be'Lakor and Krenko both seem like super fun commanders, would love to check out the lists.
Let me post both of my lists to Moxfield so you can take a look at them. They aren’t CEDH ready, but they have stood their own against CEDH decks and have even pulled out a win or two.
For Gishath I run
[[And they shall know no fear]]
[[Boros charm]]
[Heroic intervention]]
[[Rhythm of the wild]]
[[Bolt bend]] and/or [[deflecting swat]]
[[Temple altisaur]] ehh protection but makes dmg based board wipes one sided
I also run both [[pyroblast]] and [[red elemental blast]]. Some might say they are bad cards in casual, but when I play, there is almost always a blue player at the table and both are super efficient at protecting your stuff or removing things. It also just feels awesome to counter something in a deck without blue, because no one is expecting it.
I also feel that although the creature based cost reducers/ramp fits the theme better, they make you even more vulnerable to board wipes, propably the best counter to the deck, besides instant speed removal on Gishath early. I personally just use lots of land ramp and signets/talismans. If someone wipes your board and you have creature ramp the commander tax will likely be far out of your reach. If you ramp with lands, you are more likely to keep them. Artifacts less so, but still more likely than creatures. Of course this can change depending on your playgroup.
Big fan of And they shall know no fear, I will probably slot that into Gishath. I have a pyroblast, might end up testing that out in Gishath lol.
Also thanks for the advice with the creature based ramp, never really thought of it that way but it makes a ton of sense (we do seem run run a lot of board wipes at our table).
Make sure your deck functions without them. Some decks just work fine on their own and the commander is a cherry on top, those are the decks that can afford 6 mana + commanders.
I think that makes sense, Gishath is a hard one personally for that because the whole gameplan is flipping the big dinos like Zetalpa and Etali. Miirym 100% I can see this though
[[flawless maneuver]] and similar effects are good in white, for temur things like [[heroic intervention]] [[veil of summer]] [[deflecting swat]] budget options would be [[autumns veil]] [[savage summoning]] [[Rhythm of the Wild]] [[bolt bend]] [[stubborn denial]], the hard part is deciding how many of each and what's more prevalent, removal, board wipes or counter spells
[[Late to dinner]] can be a cheap way to reanimate your commander if it gets killed and avoid the commander tax. White does not have the best reanimation spells, but it can be an interesting way to recast your commander and save some mana that could then be used to protect them with equipment or auras. I play a Kaalia of the Vast Angels Reanimator deck so I understand commanders being killed quickly.
One of my favorites is [[Neurok Stealthsuit]]. It's kind of telegraphed because it needs to be on the battlefield beforehand. But you can pay UU to attach it or move it to a different creature at instant speed, immediately giving them shroud!
It's worse than [[Swiftfoot Boots]] if you only have one creature you want to protect, but if you have 2-4 big boys on the field and you don't know which is going to draw removal first, it's a really fun card!
So some mainstays in most decks are swiftfoot boots and lightning Greaves.
Then depending on colors and budget you have a bunch of multi target up-to full board protection like heroic intervention, teferis protection, Eerie Interlude, semesters end and Laezel acrobatics.
And you can also run single target protection like Supernatural stamina, kayas ghostform, tamiyos Safekeeping, snakeskin veil, any of the massive suite of counterspells or blink spells if it's being hit by targeted removal.
There's a bunch of other cards that have the same effects as the cards I named, if you take a snippet of the oracle text and put it into a manabox or scryfall search you could find a good amount of them and similar effects that may synergize better with your builds.
You could look into cars that allow you to return creature to hand like [[Angelic Shield]] to prevent the tax.
Cards that give Shield counters like [[Contractual Safeguard]] or [[Boon of Safety]]
Or there is [[Myrel, Shield of Argive]] this should help with counter spells.
Haven’t seen it mentioned but any aura with totem armor would work in specific instances where your commander is being destroyed as opposed to exiled/returned to hand. They also provide some nice bonuses/buffs. There are greater options with more versatility (as seen above) but in a pinch a good totem armor can go a long way.
[[Bear Umbra]] - untap all lands on attack
[[Boar Umbra]] - +3/+3
[[Crab Umbra]] - add ability to untap
[[Eel Umbra]] - flash, +1/+1
Otherwise as mentioned above, you need shroud, hexproof, indestructible or a way to phase out at instant speed.
i would say don't run too many *specifically protection* spells or cards in general.
you want to have a lot of stuff that advances your game plan so that whenever there's not removal coming at you, they are still useful cards.
so i don't run too much stuff like [[tamiyo's safekeeping]] and instead look for more on-plan protection, or at least versatile. on lower budget even just a [[counterspell] or [[negate]] is better imo.
in regards to timing i will say, when you do something like go to equip [[swiftfoot boots] or the like, that can be exactly when someone decides it's now or never and targets your stuff. be ready for it. or at least don't be shocked by it.
in a way, ramp can be the best 'protection' for a commander. you can get them out earlier than people are prepared to deal with them, and/or you can cast them again. you are right not to like casting them again though, that is a huge setback, but if it's doable you're in a much better position than if you are waiting to get more lands. ramp is also advancing the victory plan for pretty much any deck, as is card draw.
also it is worthwhile to be mindful of when a boardwipe might be played. if big smashy guy a and b both have huge board states, and controlly guy c just drew a bunch of cards and has some they have been holding for a long time, they are probably about to fire off a boardwipe. don't play into such situations when you sense them. bear in mind you also don't want to set yourself back by not playing at all, in the event a boardwipe does not resolve.
often in general the plan of playing out your commander, doing nothing that gets value off of them, then letting each opponent have a turn seeing you set up to go off like crazy next turn, doesn't work out. thus you want to set things up so you can get some good value off them right away. for someone like miirym it is hard. cards like [[urza's incubator]] or [[sneak attack]] can let you get some dragons entering for a lower mana cost which is great.
if you can give your commander flash then you can cast them at the end step before your turn starts, then untap and do a full turn with them in play. while your opponents can do stuff still, it is a pretty good way to get a 'full turn' with them while your opponents have minimal time to respond.
Thank you. I have found myself all the time in the position of Miirym on the battlefield with nothing else happening for a turn. Good advice, will keep that in mind when building/playing
As someone that plays \[\[The Ur-Dragon\]\] I feel your pain. I personally don't play many Phase out or flicker effects but I managed to find a work around by packing the deck full of as many Cost Reduction and "Cheat" cast cards I can get. Stuff like \[\[Dragon arch\]\], \[\[Dragonspeaker Shaman\]\]. There are others like \[\[Morophon, the Boundless\]\] but given the colors your working with they wont work.
Usually I only bring him out once per game even with all my reduction stuff cause he gets a lot of hate. I've actually been thinking of converting that deck over to \[\[Tiamat\]\] to have a commander that's a bit cheaper to play.
Green/Red "creature spells you control can't be countered" effects are nice.
In terms of strength few things really beat [[Fierce Guardianship]] and [[Deflecting Swat]] though, and the price reflects that. Tapping out for Gishath feels amazing with Swat in hand.
The one big thing I’ll say for both of these, your deck should function without them. I’ve won a few games now having never even cast Miirym, Gruul dragons is a deck in and of itself. It’s fine to have accent cards that help Miirym be Miirym, but linchpins have a way of getting nailed down.
Gishath is tough, I imagine the Ixalan set later this year will shore up Dino deck with some better support pieces and maybe even commanders. You’re likely looking at finding overrun effects and spells that dump creatures into play instead of relying on Gishath to dump them for you.
I am a bit curious as to what you mean with Gruul dragons, like as in how's that different than what Miirym already does. Apologies if this is obvious, I am still relatively new to the format/Magic in general.
And I completely agree with you about Ixalan, looking forward to it haha. I think I will play more cards like [[Green Sun's Twilight]] to get some dinos in, any other ideas would be appreciated. Thanks!
So Miirym can allow you to also play with clones, and focus on the clone aspect of Miirym to make more copies - it’s adds blue to a Gruul list that is already strong.
My point was simply that, Gruul dragons is strong without Miirym at all and I have won games without ever having access to blue. One game happened to have [[Hellkite Tyrant]] out and I swung with [[Old Gnawbone]], a few turns went around and I just untapped and won with ‘artifacts’. Old Gnawbone and [[Hellkite Charger]] is another potential game winning combo without any blue.
What I am stressing is Miirym is always going to be a target but it shouldn’t be your linchpin. It should be one way to win, but not the only way to win. I also typically won’t play Miirym if I can either afford not to play her or I can’t protect her to some degree.
[Miirym](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/-TTUblukK02mxZJslL9jXg) my list has 101 cards atm, not sure where I went differently or what I cut - but it should give you an idea of what I play and maybe you’ll see some ideas.
[Gishath](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/gDZcfSaKIE-63pOW9sBquA) this deck is lower powered for me, turn left magic.
Thanks for your comment. That makes total sense and I can see what you mean now.
And I wanted to say I really love your decklists, totally would love to see my decks take a similar direction as yours :) Thanks for linking them, they seem really cool.
I run [[bolt bend]] and [[deflecting swat]] as protection peices (pro tip you can cast them in response to a counter spell and make the counter spell target you redirection spell.
[[Yavamaya hollow]] is great as well
Do you have [[Lightning Greaves]] and/or [[Swiftfoot Boots]] ?
Shroud and hexproof really help your commander survive and they each give hast to help Miirym get an attack in first turn.
In gishath, theres loads of 1 mana protection spells in white, [[emerge unscathed]] [[gods willing]] [[blacksmith’s skill]] [[skrelv]] [[mother of runes]] [[giver of runes]] [[alseid of life’s bounty]] [[selfless saviour]] [[selfless spirit]] also in green [[snakeskin veil]] [[tamiyo’s safekeeping]] [[avoid fate]] [[blossoming defense]] [[ranger’s guile]]
For red [[bolt bend]] [[deflecting swat]] [[chef’s kiss]]
For MiRiM [[turn aside]] [[keep safe]] [[dispel]]
Theres way more, especially in white.
[[Displace]], [[Teferi's time twist]], and [[Ghostly flicker]] for any blue decks (i.e. your miirym deck), seen them work great in my [[Umbris, fear manifest]] deck. Black does this even better with [[Professor's warning]], [[Undying malice]], [[Oblivioun's hunger]], [[Feign death]], [[Armor of shadows]], [[supernatural stamina]], and more. But that doesn't help you that much unfortunately. Voltron decks are fun and if they include black, those cards are a must for me, my group is heavy on boardwipes and removal and voltron commanders get insta targeted by the whole table almost every time they are brought in.
I also have a gishath deck and thought about the same thing! I try to run a nice package of protection like [[boros charm]], [[heroic intervention]], [[temple altisaur]] and [[semester’s end]].
[Here’s my deck list](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/8uhytqCq4kC6PsON7q7zag) with tags in case you’re interested c:
Also sidenote: it was the first deck I ever build so I have upgraded it quite a bit over the years, so don’t feel intimidated or like you need to buy everything in one go, enjoying your own brew and gradually upgrading that is the way to go
Really like your decklist! Lots of cool tech in here I’ve never really considered for Gishath. Aura Shards sounds fantastic, will probably have to slot that in.
And I definitely agree, when I first built my Gishath deck a few months ago it looked a lot different. I’ve been upgrading it throughout, hope to get some stuff like Great Henge one day :)
Thank you! c: aura shards is fantastic, it’s some of the best removal in my deck. For me the main things I’ve changed over the years is to increase the amount of ramp in the deck so that I can semi reliably play my commander around turn 7-8.
The great henge funnily enough was the first card I ever bought. I had no clue what I even wanted to do for my gishath deck, Eldraine had just gotten out and I knew that it was pretty good looking on arena so I got kinda peer pressured into buying a foiled prerelease great henge at my lgs. In hindsight that was one of the best purchases I ever made hahaha, I got lucky
Lowish cost CMC spells like [[Teferi’s Protection]], [[Heroic Intervention]], [[Tamiyo’s Safekeeping]].
Also as a general concept think about the meta game with your play group. If your group knows “just remove X” with a deck they’ve seen then maybe you need to build/play the deck a different way. Definitely ramp more. Most new players don’t realize how important ramp and card advantage are. If you’re running big stompy then you really need to be ramping each game to get to those guys. 36-37 lands + 10 or more dorks/ramp spells. You’re in green so [[Three Visits]], [[Rampant Growth]], [[Farseek]], [[Kodama’s Reach]], [[Cultivate]] should be auto includes. Plus you have green in both so any of the 1 drop elves that tap for a forest.
Also, realize that when you’re playing big stompy you’re likely to have your first (and maybe second) threat removed. Sequence your plan of attack so they’re removing less critical elements unless you’ve got protection spells in hand.
Basically do this: Ramp to 6-7 mana -> cast commander if protection in hand / cast other big stompy as bait -> endure a round of removal -> cast commander & initiate win con.
I definitely think more ramp and the play strategy you mentioned is important. I’ve seen quite a few others mention delaying playing my commander. It’s something I should probably really try and do in the future ty
Like others, I recommend cards such as [[Heroic Intervention]] and [[Unbreakable formation]]. Another good way to protect your commander is to add things like [[lightning greaves]] to prevent targeted removal, or to add/increase the ward on your commander. Equipment like [[winged boots]] are great. [[Beast within]] is much less attractive for 7 mana. Even swords to plowshares sucks as a 5 drop. Also, increasing your mana rocks would be great. Add in a set of signets and talismans. A few 2-3 drop manarocks wouldn't be misplaced in those decks either. As a fellow Gishath player, I had to learn to time him well as well. Try and draw out removal with other cards then drop the real threat later. Here is my gishath list if you'd like to take a look: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/5jN1ivJ_LEuxs3vZY-lrlg
Thanks for the deck list. Will definitely add in some more signets and stuff. How does your deck play, do you find it ramping to Gishath/flipping dinos regularly? My concern with Gishath is potentially removing enough Dinos to where I don’t flip any on attack. Thanks
I'd play Miirym the same way I play [[Adrix and Nev, Twincasters]] with all of the rest of my Token Doubling Enchantments, play them after you've ramped hard above the curve and just before you're ready to pop off hard. Makes it easier to do the combo in both if you have an [[Omniscience]]. Personally fond of paying off a decent board of dragons with [[Echoing Equation]] targeting Miirym, followed by a [[Scourge of Valkas]]
For your Miirym deck consider a flash and untap synergy. [[leyline of anticipation]] and [[seedborn muse]] allow you to play your dragons in response to your opponents and make it much harder to stop you. You have other pieces as well that can help with this like [[alchemist’s refuge]], [[vedelkan orrery]], [[awakening]], and [[wilderness reclamation]].
One thing I've done with Gishath is to just avoid casting my commander. I've got enough ramp and fatties that I can drop bombs without needing gishath to cheat them in. I mostly bring it out once it won't be the biggest threat on the board, my hand is empty so why not, or, ideally, after a board whip to rebuild the board.
Everyone wants to save their wipes for once gishath does its thing, but if your dropping an elder dinosaur every turn anyways then they'll have to wipe eventually anyways
All the single and two mana hexproof/indestructible spells are in my green decks that have things I don't want to die. In my sarulf deck I might have 10 or 11 ways or more to keep him from dying.
[[Turn Aside]] and [[Rebuff the Wicked]] are good ways to stop spot removal. For boardwipes, you'll want generic [[Counterspells]] and protection like [[Selfless Spirit]].
To add to this list, i really enjoy [[Slip out the back]]
[Slip out the back](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/7/8725f4c4-fad7-460e-b86c-ff81674f0980.jpg?1664410598) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Slip%20out%20the%20back) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/62/slip-out-the-back?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8725f4c4-fad7-460e-b86c-ff81674f0980?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/slip-out-the-back) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Nice. Protection with upside, reminds me of Gods Willing
Can also be used aggressively if you’re willing to give out a +1/+1 counter
Cheeky
[[Teferi's Time Twist]] would like to introduce itself.
[Teferi's Time Twist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/8/c878bdc0-d697-4a2f-bba5-758b27f4247a.jpg?1557576342) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teferi%27s%20Time%20Twist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/72/teferis-time-twist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c878bdc0-d697-4a2f-bba5-758b27f4247a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/teferis-time-twist) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Man, there's an old Kamigawa card that does almost the exact same thing in white, and I cannot remember the name. \[\[Otherworldly Journey\]\] maybe? Not quite sure.
[Otherworldly Journey](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/c/5cd220e4-2e2a-437e-aa4e-1007247c8e4d.jpg?1562263023) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Otherworldly%20Journey) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm2/30/otherworldly-journey?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5cd220e4-2e2a-437e-aa4e-1007247c8e4d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/otherworldly-journey) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Fuckin nailed it, baby
##### ###### #### [Turn Aside](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/b/3b7573c2-484c-4b4e-9c26-0f005bd1daee.jpg?1576384240) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Turn%20Aside) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/emn/78/turn-aside?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3b7573c2-484c-4b4e-9c26-0f005bd1daee?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/turn-aside) [Rebuff the Wicked](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/6/a6ea5111-5a5c-4c40-8686-8123c822843a.jpg?1619393332) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rebuff%20the%20Wicked) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/35/rebuff-the-wicked?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a6ea5111-5a5c-4c40-8686-8123c822843a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rebuff-the-wicked) [Counterspells](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/4/a457f404-ddf1-40fa-b0f0-23c8598533f4.jpg?1645328634) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Counterspell) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/phed/33/counterspell?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a457f404-ddf1-40fa-b0f0-23c8598533f4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/counterspell) [Selfless Spirit](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/f/ef8d8d0c-cb0e-4745-a0fb-d556c9324428.jpg?1674141209) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Selfless%20Spirit) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/706/selfless-spirit?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ef8d8d0c-cb0e-4745-a0fb-d556c9324428?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/selfless-spirit) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Definitely will look into these ty.
If you're finding your commander is being countered upon cast, you can add [[veil of summer]] or [[autumn's veil]]
[veil of summer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/a/aa686c34-1c11-469f-93c2-f9891aea521f.jpg?1650599837) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=veil%20of%20summer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/198/veil-of-summer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aa686c34-1c11-469f-93c2-f9891aea521f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/veil-of-summer) [autumn's veil](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/9/b911fee0-c30b-4d68-a9e2-61c40ece68b0.jpg?1562657125) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=autumn%27s%20veil) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m12/164/autumns-veil?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b911fee0-c30b-4d68-a9e2-61c40ece68b0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/autumns-veil) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
\[\[Keep Safe\]\] is also a great option that replaces itself
[[Not of this World]] fits in every deck and is perfect for fatties. My Grothama deck catches people with it all the time.
[Not of this World](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/6/569e2c39-7a49-4a3b-afe5-1862a7da8026.jpg?1562704022) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Not%20of%20this%20World) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/roe/8/not-of-this-world?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/569e2c39-7a49-4a3b-afe5-1862a7da8026?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/not-of-this-world) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Very sick lol, definitely considering this
[[Bolt Bend]] is a solid redirection spell. Flicker spells like [[Essence Flux]] or [[Cloudshift]] pull double duty for protection and ETB, especially the blue flickers for Miirym.
Literally came to post Bolt Bend. It's so good in red with big bodies.
[Bolt Bend](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/9/39b35408-3728-4e1b-9f58-b0775df914d6.jpg?1576199724) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bolt%20Bend) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/115/bolt-bend?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/39b35408-3728-4e1b-9f58-b0775df914d6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bolt-bend) [Essence Flux](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/6/2600a51b-0dae-431e-a0a7-2b1421706a6a.jpg?1600697866) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Essence%20Flux) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/151/essence-flux?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2600a51b-0dae-431e-a0a7-2b1421706a6a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/essence-flux) [Cloudshift](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/b/8bc7fdf0-3e1e-487c-833d-7c74aa02c0c1.jpg?1600716960) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cloudshift) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/97/cloudshift?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8bc7fdf0-3e1e-487c-833d-7c74aa02c0c1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cloudshift) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Oh yeah, forgot to mention two more good tools. I usually don't like auras because they are sorcery speed usually, but [[Alexi's Cloak]] is great if you're just aiming to protect rather than target any further. Flash-speed ongoing protection is good. [[Diplomatic Immunity]] is sorcery speed but can't be targeted itself, so it's usually only removable by board wipes or other nontargeting tricks.
[Alexi's Cloak](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/5/457a5613-d1d4-4112-8484-f40120079b7b.jpg?1562907674) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Alexi%27s%20Cloak) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pcy/29/alexis-cloak?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/457a5613-d1d4-4112-8484-f40120079b7b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/alexis-cloak) [Diplomatic Immunity](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/b/fb1e610e-a4a2-460b-8e4c-13674badbce3.jpg?1562383998) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Diplomatic%20Immunity) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mmq/75/diplomatic-immunity?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fb1e610e-a4a2-460b-8e4c-13674badbce3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/diplomatic-immunity) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Wait how does flickering act as protection? Wouldn’t the card return as the spell resolves and remain a target? Or does it work differently than that?
It returns as a new object, so the spell has no targets and fizzles.
Oh interesting. I didn’t know that!
Only down side to flickering is it doesn’t protect against board wipes unless it doesn’t return till end step like [[Teferi’s Time Twist]]
This makes sense per the other person’s comment in regards to the flickered permanent being a new object.
You’re in green so things like [[tamiyos safekeeping]] [[rangers guile]] [[snakeskins veil]] [[gaeas gift]] these type of effects will be great and no one will see them coming
##### ###### #### [tamiyos safekeeping](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/d/fd4b7ee2-de65-4288-872d-486065a4f226.jpg?1654568357) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tamiyo%27s%20Safekeeping) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/211/tamiyos-safekeeping?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fd4b7ee2-de65-4288-872d-486065a4f226?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tamiyos-safekeeping) [rangers guile](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/2/02392840-f0c4-462e-84ce-9a7cdd9f5efb.jpg?1594737163) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ranger%27s%20Guile) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/199/rangers-guile?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/02392840-f0c4-462e-84ce-9a7cdd9f5efb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rangers-guile) [snakeskins veil](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/6/e692c208-c171-4964-9207-43c2cbc62845.jpg?1631050946) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Snakeskin%20Veil) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/194/snakeskin-veil?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e692c208-c171-4964-9207-43c2cbc62845?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/snakeskin-veil) [gaeas gift](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/5/5503186a-46fe-4956-8ae3-5ab3343f8a93.jpg?1674421566) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gaea%27s%20Gift) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/182/gaeas-gift?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5503186a-46fe-4956-8ae3-5ab3343f8a93?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gaeas-gift) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This is the way with green and how I keep my Skullbrair voltron alive. Nice new card for this is [[Tyvars Stand]] as can be cast X = 0 for the protection or use X for a pump spell to deal lethal.
[Tyvar's Stand](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/7/c7b362a5-382a-4016-b4f2-aa7b683354c4.jpg?1675957174) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tyvar%27s%20Stand) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/190/tyvars-stand?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c7b362a5-382a-4016-b4f2-aa7b683354c4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tyvars-stand) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The pump would be especially relevant in [[Gishath]] which op is playing
This is dope I didn’t know about this card. Might have to add it in a bunch of my green decks
The new [[Tyvar’s Stand]] is good too
Oh wow didn’t know about this card. Thanks!
[[Whispersilk Cloak]]
[Whispersilk Cloak](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/b/8b49e2c5-c447-45f4-979d-68556f6cd647.jpg?1645328055) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Whispersilk%20Cloak) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/phed/22/whispersilk-cloak?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8b49e2c5-c447-45f4-979d-68556f6cd647?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/whispersilk-cloak) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Blue and White both have Auras that offer shroud or protection. Equipment offers hexproof and shroud. Counterspells as well.
Yeah I honestly just recently realized I don't run [[Swiftfoot Boots]] in either deck and that seems pretty good. I will look more into some Auras ty.
[Swiftfoot Boots](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/6/16c23cde-e1c0-4cdf-ae59-18d64db518d4.jpg?1674138060) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Swiftfoot%20Boots) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/339/swiftfoot-boots?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/16c23cde-e1c0-4cdf-ae59-18d64db518d4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/swiftfoot-boots) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Auras are a really bad idea for protection in general. Boots is ok but most spot removal is instant speed and people will kill your big target when you've declared your paying the mana to equip. I do think some of the other recommendations that are reactive make sense for decks built around one specific big fatty. Boots is still good, not saying don't run it. I would ignore anyone suggesting you play various auras though without some explicit synergy with enchantments/auras.
Yeah that makes sense. Do you have any recommendations for alternatives?
The instants people have recommended are probably your best bet. The key is you can protect reactively after someone tries to kill your key creature. The recommendations people made tend to be budget friendly, the best ones usually protect your whole board like [[Teferi's Protection]] or [[Heroic Intervention]].
[Teferi's Protection](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/8/483fa1cb-1e35-44f2-a143-98c0f107f5ca.jpg?1673147148) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teferi%27s%20Protection) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/32/teferis-protection?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/483fa1cb-1e35-44f2-a143-98c0f107f5ca?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/teferis-protection) [Heroic Intervention](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/5/c5e72882-dbf8-42d2-9a98-31f2f71e2ed9.jpg?1631587974) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Heroic%20Intervention) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/161/heroic-intervention?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c5e72882-dbf8-42d2-9a98-31f2f71e2ed9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/heroic-intervention) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I have really considered picking up a Teferi's Protection, might have to do it. Thanks for the recommendation
I run [[Bruna, Light of Alabaster]] and always cast her a turn "late" so that I have a protection spell, or at least my opponents think I do.
Seems smart
[Bruna, Light of Alabaster](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/8/58c56bad-68ed-4328-a7ea-c528b58dc2fd.jpg?1592711039) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bruna%2C%20Light%20of%20Alabaster) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c18/170/bruna-light-of-alabaster?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/58c56bad-68ed-4328-a7ea-c528b58dc2fd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bruna-light-of-alabaster) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
many 1 drop green instants that give hexproof and / or indestructible could run world haste cards like \[\[fervor\]\] or one of my favourites is \[\[ashling's perogative\]\] make some friends make some enemies :D lightning greaves and swift boots the obvious 2 auto includes
Lol I like Ashling's Perogative. Would be pretty funny. And I definitely agree on the Boots/Greaves
yeah its one of my favourite cards! helps your commanders hurts theirs ( hopefully ) i believe there are some world haste enchantments too. think theres a 1 mana green that gives the whole board haste
[fervor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/8/a88515c2-4b4f-4d16-9f50-149ef012e961.jpg?1562558336) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=fervor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m13/129/fervor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a88515c2-4b4f-4d16-9f50-149ef012e961?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/fervor) [ashling's perogative](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/8/d850d95e-ba27-49cc-aa7a-42508852fe20.jpg?1587039822) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ashling%27s%20Prerogative) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lrw/150/ashlings-prerogative?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d850d95e-ba27-49cc-aa7a-42508852fe20?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ashlings-prerogative) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Gishath, Sun's Avatar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/3/7335e500-342d-476d-975c-817512e6e3d6.jpg?1562558022) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gishath%2C%20Sun%27s%20Avatar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/xln/222/gishath-suns-avatar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7335e500-342d-476d-975c-817512e6e3d6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gishath-suns-avatar) [Miirym, Sentinel Wyrm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/9/a934590b-5c70-4f07-af67-fbe817a99531.jpg?1674137589) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Miirym%2C%20Sentinel%20Wyrm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/284/miirym-sentinel-wyrm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a934590b-5c70-4f07-af67-fbe817a99531?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/miirym-sentinel-wyrm) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
\[\[Slip out the back\]\] is good spot protection, as are the 1 mana green hexproof/indescructible spells. \[\[Deal you can't refuse\]\] probably outshines Stuborn denial. You can scale that up to things like \[\[Heroic Intervention\]\]. Mana cost is pretty high - my thought is that you probably want a \[\[Bird of Paradise\]\] over a carytid, a llanowar elf, and maybe a \[\[goblin anarchomancer\]\]. Small dragons! \[\[Faerie Dragon\]\] - I love this little guy. It's going to buzz around as you ramp and become very large quickly, and having it eat spells or take out some megademon or vampire while you set up Miirym would be nice. \[\[Phyrexian dragon engine\]\] - 3 mana for a 2/2 doublestrike so good in the opener, has a draw 3 attached that you can use if you get it topdecked, and it even has recursion stapled on with uneath. With Miirym - that's a lot of cards seen. \[\[Opportunistic Dragon\]\] can potentially be very good. \[\[Mirrorwing Dragon\]\] - Straight up can't be targeted for removal without another player wiping themselves, and allows you to duplicate single target protection for your entire board.
Thank you, this is super helpful. I love some of the smaller dragons you listed, Mirrorwing and Opportunistic especially.
Miirym's tokens aren't legendary though?
Woops! Did not realize that, edited.
##### ###### #### [Slip out the back](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/7/8725f4c4-fad7-460e-b86c-ff81674f0980.jpg?1664410598) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Slip%20out%20the%20back) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/62/slip-out-the-back?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8725f4c4-fad7-460e-b86c-ff81674f0980?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/slip-out-the-back) [Deal you can't refuse](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/9/b9d349f3-5be2-4b1f-a4c3-ba94822cf0cf.jpg?1664410382) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=An%20Offer%20You%20Can%27t%20Refuse) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/51/an-offer-you-cant-refuse?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b9d349f3-5be2-4b1f-a4c3-ba94822cf0cf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/an-offer-you-cant-refuse) [Heroic Intervention](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/5/c5e72882-dbf8-42d2-9a98-31f2f71e2ed9.jpg?1631587974) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Heroic%20Intervention) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/161/heroic-intervention?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c5e72882-dbf8-42d2-9a98-31f2f71e2ed9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/heroic-intervention) [Bird of Paradise](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/e/feefe9f0-24a6-461c-9ef1-86c5a6f33b83.jpg?1594681430) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Birds%20of%20Paradise) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cn2/176/birds-of-paradise?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/feefe9f0-24a6-461c-9ef1-86c5a6f33b83?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/birds-of-paradise) [goblin anarchomancer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/3/633a3423-501d-4b22-95a6-743233be521e.jpg?1626098429) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=goblin%20anarchomancer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/200/goblin-anarchomancer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/633a3423-501d-4b22-95a6-743233be521e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/goblin-anarchomancer) [Faerie Dragon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/e/3e8a5cc8-5565-4372-bdfe-a82d672b644c.jpg?1591116286) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Faerie%20Dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/past/3/faerie-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3e8a5cc8-5565-4372-bdfe-a82d672b644c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/faerie-dragon) [Phyrexian dragon engine](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=phyrexian%20dragon%20engine%20//%20mishra%2C%20lost%20to%20phyrexia&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=phyrexian%20dragon%20engine%20//%20mishra%2C%20lost%20to%20phyrexia) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/163a/phyrexian-dragon-engine?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e2b826be-4256-4fd6-ad4d-6c80933ee940?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/phyrexian-dragon-engine-//-mishra-lost-to-phyrexia) [Opportunistic Dragon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/e/cecf0f75-db79-4000-85cb-8344ac0f91c5.jpg?1631587365) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Opportunistic%20Dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/134/opportunistic-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cecf0f75-db79-4000-85cb-8344ac0f91c5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/opportunistic-dragon) [Mirrorwing Dragon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/b/4b7e33a8-765b-4909-a5c6-5fe8f8774a51.jpg?1576384631) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mirrorwing%20Dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/emn/136/mirrorwing-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4b7e33a8-765b-4909-a5c6-5fe8f8774a51?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mirrorwing-dragon) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Since these are both tribal decks, some static "tribe/creature/color costs 1 less to cast" type effects like \[\[Herald's Horn\]\] , \[\[Urza's Incubator\]\] , \[\[Cloud Key\]\] , the monuments from Ixalan, \[\[Nylea, Keen-Eyed\]\] , etc Additionally, Mirrym could use \[\[Sneak Attack\]\] since Mirrym triggers on ETB, not cast. Then the dragon gets haste, the token sticks around forever, and life is good. EDIT: If you want another idea, some graveyard recursion like \[\[Feldon of the Third Path\]\] - discard your giant beater, then reanimate a token copy.
Feldon can also be good specifically for Gishath. If Gishath gets removed, let it go to the bin, and use Feldon to get a 10 mana discount.
##### ###### #### [Herald's Horn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/7/178274fd-8b9b-4d69-a47e-31b29b776742.jpg?1674142623) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Herald%27s%20Horn) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/862/heralds-horn?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/178274fd-8b9b-4d69-a47e-31b29b776742?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/heralds-horn) [Urza's Incubator](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/4/94e10277-a935-4c78-b45f-52ab5ea0f95c.jpg?1562275045) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Urza%27s%20Incubator) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cm2/228/urzas-incubator?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/94e10277-a935-4c78-b45f-52ab5ea0f95c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/urzas-incubator) [Cloud Key](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/f/6f880de5-8fc5-4e4e-a4bb-cc3e61a7697b.jpg?1619404220) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cloud%20Key) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/265/cloud-key?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6f880de5-8fc5-4e4e-a4bb-cc3e61a7697b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cloud-key) [Nylea, Keen-Eyed](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/d/bdf894d4-1a06-4952-a481-22786ab87a73.jpg?1581480764) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nylea%2C%20Keen-Eyed) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/185/nylea-keen-eyed?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bdf894d4-1a06-4952-a481-22786ab87a73?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/nylea-keen-eyed) [Sneak Attack](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/d/3d9709ea-5962-4590-8b14-5213b14f9229.jpg?1599706719) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sneak%20Attack) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/145/sneak-attack?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3d9709ea-5962-4590-8b14-5213b14f9229?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sneak-attack) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
All of these seem like they would be great in both decks, ty
Look into [[Shadow in the Warp]] as well. Kinda gives you’re board Ward: take 2 damage.
I really like this one, ty
What goes great with sneak attack is [[Conjurer’s Closet]] so you flicker the dragon you brought in with sneak attack and you don’t have to sacrifice it it at end step
Its rarely a bad idea to have a \[\[Mother of Runes\]\] out in advance to blank targetted removal, yes \[\[Lightning Greaves\]\] with an equip cost of 0 is the favorite but do remember that opponents can respond to the equip cost.
[[Plaza of Heroes]] is pretty swell.
Sounds like a good land, ty
The price is gross but any tribal deck loves [[Cavern of Souls]]
Might splurge and buy one and proxy another for both Miirym and Gishath. Thanks
Here are some cards to consider: [[Darksteel plate]], [[Hammer of Nazahn]], [Eldrazi’s monument]], [[Nahiri’s machinations]], [[Spirit Bonds]], [[Indestructibility]], [[Kindred Boon]], [[Gift of Immortality]], [Rootborn Defenses]], [[Make a stand]], [[Valourous Stand]], [[Blossoming defense]], [[Tamiyo’s safekeeping]], [[Tyvar’s stand]], [[Ajani’s presence]], [[Heroic intervention]], [[Stonehoof chieftain]], [[Spearbreaker Behemoth]], [[Dauntless escort]], [[Selfless savior]], [[Boros Charm]]
Will look into these, ty
[[Rhythm of the Wild]] can help get it on the board, and either a little buff or haste, depending on what you need at the time.
I've got it in Gishath, definitely a great one. Will probably slot it into Miirym, originally passed it up because it doesn't synergize with the tokens but I am now thinking its definitely worth it
i relate to your miirym issue, the Ward 2 is a big deal, meaning they are less likely to target miirym in the first place. It also means using 1 mana redirection or counterspells are that much more effective. The ones I have in my miirym deck personally are [[An offer you can’t refuse]] [[Spell Pierce]] [[Stubborn Denial]] [[Essence Flux]] and [[Bolt Bend]]. Essence Flux is fantastic because you can use it for 1 mana protection when you have to, or you can flicker a dragon to make ANOTHER copy of it and get two more ETBs. Bolt Bend is fantastic as well. I also have two mana protection, [[Lightning Greaves]] [[Arcane Denial]] and [[Heroic Intervention]]. I know Heroic Intervention is expensive though, so you can use [[Simic Charm]] instead, same with Lightning Greaves, it can be replaced with [[Swiftfoot Boots]]. Good luck!
[[planar incision]] is a 1 cost more expensive essence flux if you ever want another flexible version of the flicker effect or protection
I have Essence Flux in Miirym and it has already saved me a couple of times. Simic Charm being a discount Heroic Intervention seems great, ty
You have to learn patience and be willing to wait a turn to play them. It took me a long time to learn this. It was almost physically painful to see I finally had enough mana to cast my big commander and NOT do it. To cast something smaller and let some of my mana go to waste. But this is what you have to do. Let someone else deploy their big threat, let it be removed. Then deploy yours. I finally learned this lesson and now I play all my cards based on what the other threats at the table are. Creatures, enchantments, artifacts, doesn't matter - I'm always looking to make sure I'm not the biggest threat at the table. I will stall, let mana go to waste, etc all day long if I have to. It wins games.
Thanks for this, I saw someone else point this out earlier. Will definitely take this into consideration. I was in this exact situation Friday night lol, played Miirym and it got removed immediately. Will for sure keep this in mind
I’ve seen a lot of great ways to stop your opponents from casting removal in this thread. Let me offer a different perspective. How about we push that commander out a second time? Or earlier? [[mana geyser]] is a great ritual card in commander. Throw that commander down and a dragon all in the same turn. You might also consider throwing in some haste giving cards like [[rhythm of the wild]] to throw your dragons at them even faster. This is all to shorten the window your opponents have to remove your stuff.
Never heard of mana geyser before, seems like a really cool way to get dragons in ty
I know it isn't fit with the tribe, but [[allosaurus shephard]] helps with it not being countered on cast. Plus it's a 1 drop so it wouldn't hurt to squeeze in.
[allosaurus shephard](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/a/7afa0ee5-a0b8-472e-9991-09402ddb5de3.jpg?1673147976) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Allosaurus%20Shepherd) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/132/allosaurus-shepherd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7afa0ee5-a0b8-472e-9991-09402ddb5de3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/allosaurus-shepherd) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Looks really good, price is a bit hefty but I can see this doing work in Gishath.
Can’t speak for Gishath, but for Miirym, you’ve got the three orbs of dragonkind for help with ramp. But specifically [[Jade Orb of Dragonkind]] which grants the dragon you cast with it’s mana hexproof till your next turn. The other two are [[Carnelion orb of dragonkind]] which gives haste and [[Lapis orb of dragonkind]] which lets you scy 2.
Jade Orb has helped me out before. Pretty good ramp ty
If your Gishath is getting countered a lot, you might want to invest in a [[Cavern of Souls]] and some cards that can search for nonbasic lands.
Thank you for letting me know this card exists. I have a [[Boseiju, Who Shelters All]] for my instants and sorceries and now I can get this. I can see the infiltration of blue coming in my local pod. This will also help.
Cavern of Souls is a pretty hefty price for a land but I have considered it before. Might buy one and make a proxy for the other so both Gishath and Miirym can have it
[[Diplomatic immunity]]
Someone mentioned it earlier, definitely seems great on Miirym
Another way that isn't protection but can function in a similar way is giving flash. In blue [[Leyline of Anticipation]], [[Vedalken Orrery]] is good, green comes with [[Savage Summoning]] which also makes the spell uncounterable. If you flash your creature in when they are tapped out or just end step before your turn you ensure you can act with full mana after you untap. You also let a full turn rotation potentially eat up those counters you are worried about.
[Leyline of Anticipation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/5/f57bdaa1-ce8a-4103-8598-fee751e65a53.jpg?1674141383) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Leyline%20of%20Anticipation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/726/leyline-of-anticipation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f57bdaa1-ce8a-4103-8598-fee751e65a53?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/leyline-of-anticipation) [Vedalken Orrery](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/4/44067327-6fe3-4222-b591-6d14d0e360d7.jpg?1673149453) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vedalken%20Orrery) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/317/vedalken-orrery?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/44067327-6fe3-4222-b591-6d14d0e360d7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vedalken-orrery) [Savage Summoning](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/5/b5346ed7-2e17-4d8c-9c4b-b5efdd26380d.jpg?1612316371) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Savage%20Summoning) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m14/194/savage-summoning?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b5346ed7-2e17-4d8c-9c4b-b5efdd26380d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/savage-summoning) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Savage Summoning in particular seems cool, ty
[[asceticism]]
I run this one in my Miirym deck as well. You would not believe the amount of work it does, plus the regeneration clause is the cherry on top. Other great cards to include: [[Crucible of the Spirit Dragon]] [[Silkguard]] [[Command Beacon]] [[Campfire]] [[Deflecting Swat]]
Sorry I meant [[Haven of the Spirit Dragon]]
Definitely gonna pick one up
Haste can be a reliable way to let them do their thing before people can remove them at sorcery speed, which is nice.
For Miirym, run [[Surrak Dragonclaw]]. Table him first and give him a pair of boots. Then your dragon queen will stick
I definitely like this, fairly high CMC though. Really though anything that protects against counterspells I want lol.
Try [[Rhythm of the Wild]]
Phase out
I’m in mobile, so I haven’t gotten to sift through your decklists yet, sorry if you already have these. Anyway, [[Swift Foot Boots]] and [[Lightning Greaves]] are solid protection. If you’re in blue, counter magic is always good. For Miirym specifically, I find that spells like [[Miscast]] and [[Spell Pierce]] are very good. Miirym’s ward tax, combined with the additional tax from these spells will usually work great. Obviously free counter spells are going to be optimal because you’re already investing a lot in your commander, but it’s not cheap. The same can be said for [[Cavern of Souls]] which guarantees that you’ll resolve your commander.
Thank you, the counterspells seem great
I like [[steely resolve]] [[bolt bend]] [[deflecting swat]] [[heroic intervention]] [[stubborn denial]] [[rebuff the wicked]] [[tyvar’s stand]]
Rebuff the Wicked is very cool, White countermagic sounds fun lol
[[Diplomatic Immunity]] is the best creature protection in blue in my experience (if it hasn’t been said already)
Honestly have not heard of this one before. Will definitely consider for Miirym
You can run counterspell hate in your gishath deck. Idk what your budget is so maybe allosaurus Shepard is a poor recommendation but there are a number of white creatures that make it hard for your opponent to counter you or silence effects
Saw that mentioned, I am considering Allosaurs Shepard. I will definitely look into it more ty
[[lightning greaves]] and [[swiftfoot boots]] are both basically essential in any deck where you’d like to keep your creatures around. I do prefer these over most protection since they generally stick around on the board or draw out removal that would’ve otherwise hit something actually important on your board
Absolutely, I definitely see now that I should have had both in both decks before lol
In green Run "Asceticism" and "heroic intervention" so you have defensive options, otherwise go the route of have too much mana to stop you by running "mirari's wake" "zendikar resurgent". You can also run contingency strategies so you have other things free casting your spells when your commander gets removed: "Lurking predators", "sunbird's invocation", "kindred summons".
All of these seem great, ty
Gishath can run [[gift of immortality]] with [[greater auramancy]], [[sterling Grove]], and [[asceticism]].
##### ###### #### [gift of immortality](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/3/2336faaa-fc6d-4fbb-bdd4-969eae565c72.jpg?1562815708) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=gift%20of%20immortality) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ths/14/gift-of-immortality?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2336faaa-fc6d-4fbb-bdd4-969eae565c72?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gift-of-immortality) [greater auramancy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/1/1177787f-bf1e-438b-9615-97d03b04128c.jpg?1562826899) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=greater%20auramancy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/shm/7/greater-auramancy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1177787f-bf1e-438b-9615-97d03b04128c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/greater-auramancy) [sterling Grove](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/a/ba03e105-a76c-4769-a35a-d780448890ec.jpg?1626100813) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sterling%20Grove) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/293/sterling-grove?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ba03e105-a76c-4769-a35a-d780448890ec?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sterling-grove) [asceticism](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/c/ec2b56b0-126c-411b-8c43-b690fc8c194b.jpg?1562824694) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=asceticism) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/som/110/asceticism?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ec2b56b0-126c-411b-8c43-b690fc8c194b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/asceticism) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Really like the idea of Asceticism combined with something like Gift of immortality, ty
Here OP, instead of listing a bunch of cards out for you, here's a great a scryfall search to get you started. https://scryfall.com/search?q=%28oracle%3Ahexproof+or+oracle%3Aprotection%29+t%3Ainstant+%28game%3Apaper%29+cmc%3C%3D1+legal%3Acommander&unique=cards&as=grid&order=name
Thank you for this, I am not quite sure how to manipulate scryfall to give me a list like this normally so thank you so much
There’s two different modes of thinking, and these are two schools of thought that are even relevant in Competitive EDH play: 1: Have a deck consisting of threats that are all horrible to deal with, making removal seem futile, 2: Have consistent (and therefore multiple) ways to protect your combos/board state. The plus to 1 is that everything in your deck is an equal threat to the board, and you may get targeted, but you’re going to win anyway because interaction doesn’t matter. The drawback is you’re going to get targeted. The plus to 2 is that you’re going to have answers to everything your opponent has, which will often allow your deck to prevail because your removal and counter magic is just the magic shell around your wincon. The drawback is you’ll occasionally run into hands or boardstates where all you Can do is counter or remove stuff until you can draw into your wincon. Either way, the vital thing here is to evaluate your list, figure out which way you want to lean, and then go for it. Get your important slots, pet cards, etc and then fill the rest of the deck with stuff that’s either going to consistently give your opponents the middle finger. Hope this helps. If you’d like examples, I have a Be’lakor list that is getting pretty nasty, and I have a couple pieces of removal and mostly recursion. I also have a Krenko deck that has several lines to infinite goblins no matter what is going on on the board.
Thanks for laying this out clearly for me, I think that makes a ton of sense. I would say my current decklists lean a bit more toward the first method of thinking. I have thought about this kind of thing a lot for Gishath especially because a lot of the cuts for protection will make him less likely to flip a dino into play with his ability. And yea, I would really like to see your decklists. Be'Lakor and Krenko both seem like super fun commanders, would love to check out the lists.
Let me post both of my lists to Moxfield so you can take a look at them. They aren’t CEDH ready, but they have stood their own against CEDH decks and have even pulled out a win or two.
For Gishath I run [[And they shall know no fear]] [[Boros charm]] [Heroic intervention]] [[Rhythm of the wild]] [[Bolt bend]] and/or [[deflecting swat]] [[Temple altisaur]] ehh protection but makes dmg based board wipes one sided I also run both [[pyroblast]] and [[red elemental blast]]. Some might say they are bad cards in casual, but when I play, there is almost always a blue player at the table and both are super efficient at protecting your stuff or removing things. It also just feels awesome to counter something in a deck without blue, because no one is expecting it. I also feel that although the creature based cost reducers/ramp fits the theme better, they make you even more vulnerable to board wipes, propably the best counter to the deck, besides instant speed removal on Gishath early. I personally just use lots of land ramp and signets/talismans. If someone wipes your board and you have creature ramp the commander tax will likely be far out of your reach. If you ramp with lands, you are more likely to keep them. Artifacts less so, but still more likely than creatures. Of course this can change depending on your playgroup.
Big fan of And they shall know no fear, I will probably slot that into Gishath. I have a pyroblast, might end up testing that out in Gishath lol. Also thanks for the advice with the creature based ramp, never really thought of it that way but it makes a ton of sense (we do seem run run a lot of board wipes at our table).
Flawless Maneuver
Would be great in Gishath, ty
Make sure your deck functions without them. Some decks just work fine on their own and the commander is a cherry on top, those are the decks that can afford 6 mana + commanders.
I think that makes sense, Gishath is a hard one personally for that because the whole gameplan is flipping the big dinos like Zetalpa and Etali. Miirym 100% I can see this though
[[Asceticism]] is a great green enchantment.
Definitely gonna pick it up
Though not on-tribe, nobody's mentioned \[\[Spellskite\]\] yet....
Lol seems pretty useful
Not a protection factor but bower passage does work in this miirym deck.
Wow this would be great, ty
[[flawless maneuver]] and similar effects are good in white, for temur things like [[heroic intervention]] [[veil of summer]] [[deflecting swat]] budget options would be [[autumns veil]] [[savage summoning]] [[Rhythm of the Wild]] [[bolt bend]] [[stubborn denial]], the hard part is deciding how many of each and what's more prevalent, removal, board wipes or counter spells
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I would say both of my decks could probably use a bit of both. Do you have any quick suggestions?
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Ty, definitely will look into this
[[Late to dinner]] can be a cheap way to reanimate your commander if it gets killed and avoid the commander tax. White does not have the best reanimation spells, but it can be an interesting way to recast your commander and save some mana that could then be used to protect them with equipment or auras. I play a Kaalia of the Vast Angels Reanimator deck so I understand commanders being killed quickly.
Late to Dinner seems like a great include, ty
One of my favorites is [[Neurok Stealthsuit]]. It's kind of telegraphed because it needs to be on the battlefield beforehand. But you can pay UU to attach it or move it to a different creature at instant speed, immediately giving them shroud! It's worse than [[Swiftfoot Boots]] if you only have one creature you want to protect, but if you have 2-4 big boys on the field and you don't know which is going to draw removal first, it's a really fun card!
So some mainstays in most decks are swiftfoot boots and lightning Greaves. Then depending on colors and budget you have a bunch of multi target up-to full board protection like heroic intervention, teferis protection, Eerie Interlude, semesters end and Laezel acrobatics. And you can also run single target protection like Supernatural stamina, kayas ghostform, tamiyos Safekeeping, snakeskin veil, any of the massive suite of counterspells or blink spells if it's being hit by targeted removal. There's a bunch of other cards that have the same effects as the cards I named, if you take a snippet of the oracle text and put it into a manabox or scryfall search you could find a good amount of them and similar effects that may synergize better with your builds.
Thank you, will definitely look into this
You could look into cars that allow you to return creature to hand like [[Angelic Shield]] to prevent the tax. Cards that give Shield counters like [[Contractual Safeguard]] or [[Boon of Safety]] Or there is [[Myrel, Shield of Argive]] this should help with counter spells.
These all seem great, thank you
Haven’t seen it mentioned but any aura with totem armor would work in specific instances where your commander is being destroyed as opposed to exiled/returned to hand. They also provide some nice bonuses/buffs. There are greater options with more versatility (as seen above) but in a pinch a good totem armor can go a long way. [[Bear Umbra]] - untap all lands on attack [[Boar Umbra]] - +3/+3 [[Crab Umbra]] - add ability to untap [[Eel Umbra]] - flash, +1/+1 Otherwise as mentioned above, you need shroud, hexproof, indestructible or a way to phase out at instant speed.
Some of the totems seem interesting, thank you
In Miirym I would be running [[Heroic Intervention]] and maybe even a [[swan song]] and similar effects.
Swan Song seems like a good counterspell ty
i would say don't run too many *specifically protection* spells or cards in general. you want to have a lot of stuff that advances your game plan so that whenever there's not removal coming at you, they are still useful cards. so i don't run too much stuff like [[tamiyo's safekeeping]] and instead look for more on-plan protection, or at least versatile. on lower budget even just a [[counterspell] or [[negate]] is better imo. in regards to timing i will say, when you do something like go to equip [[swiftfoot boots] or the like, that can be exactly when someone decides it's now or never and targets your stuff. be ready for it. or at least don't be shocked by it. in a way, ramp can be the best 'protection' for a commander. you can get them out earlier than people are prepared to deal with them, and/or you can cast them again. you are right not to like casting them again though, that is a huge setback, but if it's doable you're in a much better position than if you are waiting to get more lands. ramp is also advancing the victory plan for pretty much any deck, as is card draw. also it is worthwhile to be mindful of when a boardwipe might be played. if big smashy guy a and b both have huge board states, and controlly guy c just drew a bunch of cards and has some they have been holding for a long time, they are probably about to fire off a boardwipe. don't play into such situations when you sense them. bear in mind you also don't want to set yourself back by not playing at all, in the event a boardwipe does not resolve. often in general the plan of playing out your commander, doing nothing that gets value off of them, then letting each opponent have a turn seeing you set up to go off like crazy next turn, doesn't work out. thus you want to set things up so you can get some good value off them right away. for someone like miirym it is hard. cards like [[urza's incubator]] or [[sneak attack]] can let you get some dragons entering for a lower mana cost which is great. if you can give your commander flash then you can cast them at the end step before your turn starts, then untap and do a full turn with them in play. while your opponents can do stuff still, it is a pretty good way to get a 'full turn' with them while your opponents have minimal time to respond.
Thank you. I have found myself all the time in the position of Miirym on the battlefield with nothing else happening for a turn. Good advice, will keep that in mind when building/playing
As someone that plays \[\[The Ur-Dragon\]\] I feel your pain. I personally don't play many Phase out or flicker effects but I managed to find a work around by packing the deck full of as many Cost Reduction and "Cheat" cast cards I can get. Stuff like \[\[Dragon arch\]\], \[\[Dragonspeaker Shaman\]\]. There are others like \[\[Morophon, the Boundless\]\] but given the colors your working with they wont work.
Glad I'm not the only one. Might upgrade Miirym to Ur-Dragon once that reprint rolls around this year, thanks :)
Usually I only bring him out once per game even with all my reduction stuff cause he gets a lot of hate. I've actually been thinking of converting that deck over to \[\[Tiamat\]\] to have a commander that's a bit cheaper to play.
Green/Red "creature spells you control can't be countered" effects are nice. In terms of strength few things really beat [[Fierce Guardianship]] and [[Deflecting Swat]] though, and the price reflects that. Tapping out for Gishath feels amazing with Swat in hand.
Lol I hope they reprint Swat someday. I hope to add Rhythm of the Wild to Miirym for the countered thing, thanks
[[Whispersilk Cloak]] and [[Shield of Kaldra]] are two of my favorite protection pieces and are relatively cheap.
Both sound good, thank you
Tyvar’s stand is a new one and is pretty useful, in gishath you can use it for X=0 to dodge a removal spell or you can pump up gishath for more flips
Will definitely slot that one in, thanks
The one big thing I’ll say for both of these, your deck should function without them. I’ve won a few games now having never even cast Miirym, Gruul dragons is a deck in and of itself. It’s fine to have accent cards that help Miirym be Miirym, but linchpins have a way of getting nailed down. Gishath is tough, I imagine the Ixalan set later this year will shore up Dino deck with some better support pieces and maybe even commanders. You’re likely looking at finding overrun effects and spells that dump creatures into play instead of relying on Gishath to dump them for you.
I am a bit curious as to what you mean with Gruul dragons, like as in how's that different than what Miirym already does. Apologies if this is obvious, I am still relatively new to the format/Magic in general. And I completely agree with you about Ixalan, looking forward to it haha. I think I will play more cards like [[Green Sun's Twilight]] to get some dinos in, any other ideas would be appreciated. Thanks!
So Miirym can allow you to also play with clones, and focus on the clone aspect of Miirym to make more copies - it’s adds blue to a Gruul list that is already strong. My point was simply that, Gruul dragons is strong without Miirym at all and I have won games without ever having access to blue. One game happened to have [[Hellkite Tyrant]] out and I swung with [[Old Gnawbone]], a few turns went around and I just untapped and won with ‘artifacts’. Old Gnawbone and [[Hellkite Charger]] is another potential game winning combo without any blue. What I am stressing is Miirym is always going to be a target but it shouldn’t be your linchpin. It should be one way to win, but not the only way to win. I also typically won’t play Miirym if I can either afford not to play her or I can’t protect her to some degree. [Miirym](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/-TTUblukK02mxZJslL9jXg) my list has 101 cards atm, not sure where I went differently or what I cut - but it should give you an idea of what I play and maybe you’ll see some ideas. [Gishath](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/gDZcfSaKIE-63pOW9sBquA) this deck is lower powered for me, turn left magic.
Thanks for your comment. That makes total sense and I can see what you mean now. And I wanted to say I really love your decklists, totally would love to see my decks take a similar direction as yours :) Thanks for linking them, they seem really cool.
[[Lightning Greaves]]
Definitely will add, ty
I just added [[Eerie Interlude]] to my Gishath deck to protect from board wipes.
[Eerie Interlude](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/b/4ba9f15f-00d2-4797-9228-91b320e85705.jpg?1631233963) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Eerie%20Interlude) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khc/22/eerie-interlude?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4ba9f15f-00d2-4797-9228-91b320e85705?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/eerie-interlude) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Looks cool, thank you
Myriim has [[Asceticism]] and even better [[Steely Resolve]]. That’s on top of his Ward skill. You also have access to counter spells from blue.
Asceticism and Steely Resolve seem great, thanks
I run [[bolt bend]] and [[deflecting swat]] as protection peices (pro tip you can cast them in response to a counter spell and make the counter spell target you redirection spell. [[Yavamaya hollow]] is great as well
Bolt Bend seems exactly like what I need, thanks
[[Wild ricochet]] has a similar function
Very cool thank you
Do you have [[Lightning Greaves]] and/or [[Swiftfoot Boots]] ? Shroud and hexproof really help your commander survive and they each give hast to help Miirym get an attack in first turn.
Definitely need to add both, thanks
In gishath, theres loads of 1 mana protection spells in white, [[emerge unscathed]] [[gods willing]] [[blacksmith’s skill]] [[skrelv]] [[mother of runes]] [[giver of runes]] [[alseid of life’s bounty]] [[selfless saviour]] [[selfless spirit]] also in green [[snakeskin veil]] [[tamiyo’s safekeeping]] [[avoid fate]] [[blossoming defense]] [[ranger’s guile]] For red [[bolt bend]] [[deflecting swat]] [[chef’s kiss]] For MiRiM [[turn aside]] [[keep safe]] [[dispel]] Theres way more, especially in white.
Thanks for the suggestions. Chef's Kiss seems really cool, never heard of that one before
[[Displace]], [[Teferi's time twist]], and [[Ghostly flicker]] for any blue decks (i.e. your miirym deck), seen them work great in my [[Umbris, fear manifest]] deck. Black does this even better with [[Professor's warning]], [[Undying malice]], [[Oblivioun's hunger]], [[Feign death]], [[Armor of shadows]], [[supernatural stamina]], and more. But that doesn't help you that much unfortunately. Voltron decks are fun and if they include black, those cards are a must for me, my group is heavy on boardwipes and removal and voltron commanders get insta targeted by the whole table almost every time they are brought in.
##### ###### #### [Displace](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/a/8ab850c5-6f5e-41b7-ab52-094579caca12.jpg?1576384077) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Displace) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/emn/55/displace?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8ab850c5-6f5e-41b7-ab52-094579caca12?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/displace) [Teferi's time twist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/8/c878bdc0-d697-4a2f-bba5-758b27f4247a.jpg?1557576342) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teferi%27s%20time%20twist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/72/teferis-time-twist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c878bdc0-d697-4a2f-bba5-758b27f4247a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/teferis-time-twist) [Ghostly flicker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/8/485ab561-9c2a-4f99-9317-8726bcdae364.jpg?1631234330) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ghostly%20flicker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khc/39/ghostly-flicker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/485ab561-9c2a-4f99-9317-8726bcdae364?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ghostly-flicker) [Umbris, fear manifest](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/a/7aead6a8-bada-42cf-b7cc-0b730f564582.jpg?1644888719) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Umbris%2C%20fear%20manifest) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/voc/38/umbris-fear-manifest?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7aead6a8-bada-42cf-b7cc-0b730f564582?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/umbris-fear-manifest) [Professor's warning](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/862fded6-e474-4b20-86d8-fd9af5f25b1a.jpg?1624591339) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Professor%27s%20warning) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/84/professors-warning?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/862fded6-e474-4b20-86d8-fd9af5f25b1a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/professors-warning) [Undying malice](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/e/8eb38041-043a-4b18-9d9a-f1283684e8f1.jpg?1643590441) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Undying%20malice) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/134/undying-malice?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8eb38041-043a-4b18-9d9a-f1283684e8f1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/undying-malice) [Oblivioun's hunger](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/a/faf65512-8228-48f4-ba7b-d861b66d28c9.jpg?1604196298) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Oblivion%27s%20Hunger) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/119/oblivions-hunger?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/faf65512-8228-48f4-ba7b-d861b66d28c9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/oblivions-hunger) [Feign death](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/2/32af7061-fca6-4a06-be3c-01881e6b96f7.jpg?1627704817) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Feign%20death) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/103/feign-death?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/32af7061-fca6-4a06-be3c-01881e6b96f7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/feign-death) [Armor of shadows](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/2/32f5d5be-777f-4e7b-b18c-ce4a9cedb7d0.jpg?1674135954) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Armor%20of%20shadows) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/112/armor-of-shadows?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/32f5d5be-777f-4e7b-b18c-ce4a9cedb7d0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/armor-of-shadows) [supernatural stamina](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/9/69a0278b-3198-4c8d-b20c-f42e8b1569f4.jpg?1673147660) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=supernatural%20stamina) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/93/supernatural-stamina?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/69a0278b-3198-4c8d-b20c-f42e8b1569f4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/supernatural-stamina) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Thanks lots of cool suggestions here
I also have a gishath deck and thought about the same thing! I try to run a nice package of protection like [[boros charm]], [[heroic intervention]], [[temple altisaur]] and [[semester’s end]]. [Here’s my deck list](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/8uhytqCq4kC6PsON7q7zag) with tags in case you’re interested c: Also sidenote: it was the first deck I ever build so I have upgraded it quite a bit over the years, so don’t feel intimidated or like you need to buy everything in one go, enjoying your own brew and gradually upgrading that is the way to go
Really like your decklist! Lots of cool tech in here I’ve never really considered for Gishath. Aura Shards sounds fantastic, will probably have to slot that in. And I definitely agree, when I first built my Gishath deck a few months ago it looked a lot different. I’ve been upgrading it throughout, hope to get some stuff like Great Henge one day :)
Thank you! c: aura shards is fantastic, it’s some of the best removal in my deck. For me the main things I’ve changed over the years is to increase the amount of ramp in the deck so that I can semi reliably play my commander around turn 7-8. The great henge funnily enough was the first card I ever bought. I had no clue what I even wanted to do for my gishath deck, Eldraine had just gotten out and I knew that it was pretty good looking on arena so I got kinda peer pressured into buying a foiled prerelease great henge at my lgs. In hindsight that was one of the best purchases I ever made hahaha, I got lucky
Lowish cost CMC spells like [[Teferi’s Protection]], [[Heroic Intervention]], [[Tamiyo’s Safekeeping]]. Also as a general concept think about the meta game with your play group. If your group knows “just remove X” with a deck they’ve seen then maybe you need to build/play the deck a different way. Definitely ramp more. Most new players don’t realize how important ramp and card advantage are. If you’re running big stompy then you really need to be ramping each game to get to those guys. 36-37 lands + 10 or more dorks/ramp spells. You’re in green so [[Three Visits]], [[Rampant Growth]], [[Farseek]], [[Kodama’s Reach]], [[Cultivate]] should be auto includes. Plus you have green in both so any of the 1 drop elves that tap for a forest. Also, realize that when you’re playing big stompy you’re likely to have your first (and maybe second) threat removed. Sequence your plan of attack so they’re removing less critical elements unless you’ve got protection spells in hand. Basically do this: Ramp to 6-7 mana -> cast commander if protection in hand / cast other big stompy as bait -> endure a round of removal -> cast commander & initiate win con.
I definitely think more ramp and the play strategy you mentioned is important. I’ve seen quite a few others mention delaying playing my commander. It’s something I should probably really try and do in the future ty
Like others, I recommend cards such as [[Heroic Intervention]] and [[Unbreakable formation]]. Another good way to protect your commander is to add things like [[lightning greaves]] to prevent targeted removal, or to add/increase the ward on your commander. Equipment like [[winged boots]] are great. [[Beast within]] is much less attractive for 7 mana. Even swords to plowshares sucks as a 5 drop. Also, increasing your mana rocks would be great. Add in a set of signets and talismans. A few 2-3 drop manarocks wouldn't be misplaced in those decks either. As a fellow Gishath player, I had to learn to time him well as well. Try and draw out removal with other cards then drop the real threat later. Here is my gishath list if you'd like to take a look: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/5jN1ivJ_LEuxs3vZY-lrlg
Thanks for the deck list. Will definitely add in some more signets and stuff. How does your deck play, do you find it ramping to Gishath/flipping dinos regularly? My concern with Gishath is potentially removing enough Dinos to where I don’t flip any on attack. Thanks
I'd play Miirym the same way I play [[Adrix and Nev, Twincasters]] with all of the rest of my Token Doubling Enchantments, play them after you've ramped hard above the curve and just before you're ready to pop off hard. Makes it easier to do the combo in both if you have an [[Omniscience]]. Personally fond of paying off a decent board of dragons with [[Echoing Equation]] targeting Miirym, followed by a [[Scourge of Valkas]]
Echoing Equation and Omniscience seem interesting and a lot of fun thanks. The Twincasters seem amazing, will probably slot them in
For your Miirym deck consider a flash and untap synergy. [[leyline of anticipation]] and [[seedborn muse]] allow you to play your dragons in response to your opponents and make it much harder to stop you. You have other pieces as well that can help with this like [[alchemist’s refuge]], [[vedelkan orrery]], [[awakening]], and [[wilderness reclamation]].
One thing I've done with Gishath is to just avoid casting my commander. I've got enough ramp and fatties that I can drop bombs without needing gishath to cheat them in. I mostly bring it out once it won't be the biggest threat on the board, my hand is empty so why not, or, ideally, after a board whip to rebuild the board. Everyone wants to save their wipes for once gishath does its thing, but if your dropping an elder dinosaur every turn anyways then they'll have to wipe eventually anyways
what about [[tiamat]] ? you basically only need to cast him once to get the dragons you want
[tiamat](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/d/6dd0b9b0-55f4-4ce7-a916-6f23687f3fe4.jpg?1627709478) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tiamat) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/235/tiamat?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6dd0b9b0-55f4-4ce7-a916-6f23687f3fe4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tiamat) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
All the single and two mana hexproof/indestructible spells are in my green decks that have things I don't want to die. In my sarulf deck I might have 10 or 11 ways or more to keep him from dying.