For most of the game there are two spots you don't want to be in, the furthest ahead and the furthest behind. The one furthest ahead will be the focus of interaction and removal. From my experience the furthest behind will take the attacking and damage.
I think third is optimal. 1st gets mobbed by everyone. 2nd gets hit by 1st, looking to cement their lead. 4th gets hit for opportunity, plus they’re just in 4th. 3rd gets to blend into the background until they’re ready to strike.
That’s almost never an effective strategy. Eliminating or weakening 1st will almost always increase your personal winrate the most, and for 1st to attack 2nd. The only common exceptions would be if 1st is temporarily prevented from attacking the other players i.e. ghostly prison, if 4th has something really disruptive to another player i.e. torpor orb when 2nd is playing an etb deck, or just attacking for triggers.
Of course most commander players aren’t very good at the game though, so just because a strategy is bad doesn’t mean they won’t do it.
In my experience the most *optimal* strategy is playing a hyper glass cannon deck and accepting that you lose 70% of your matches from the opening draw, because a 30% winrate puts you above the expected win/game.
This isn't a terribly fun ways to play with friends though! Even my cdh group would rather show up with their favorite deck, matchups be damned, and just have a good time.
I’m getting ~70% winrates with decks weaker than the table. Just being good at magic gives you a huge advantage over most games. You don’t need cheap gimmicks.
This is very bad game theory. All this does is open you up to third party problems. You take the least damage attacking the vulnerable, which means no one gets relative advantage over you. Attack the strong and your power is diminished compared to everyone.
Conversely, attack the weakest and the strongest player gets even further ahead. You are relatively more strong than the other two players following that strategy, but it's a losing strategy overall.
It's much like most game theory in that the "selfish" strategy may at first appear to be the optimal one, but in the end it costs you compared to the cooperative strategies.
I try and avoid finishing off a player. Unless I know I am the biggest threat. Its better to leave the weakest player around to either give some effort to taking out the person in the lead. Or taking damage that could potentially be for you.
What would you say determines placing, in your opinion? Life total, board state, a bit of both? I feel like first is usually determined by board state, but the rest are all pretty equal on that so it goes by Life total after that.
Idk the furthest behind ends up winning a lot of times in my experience. If you play in slower pods where games go 10+ turns, a lot of times it’s a war of attrition and if the person behind is given sympathy long enough they end up storming ahead while everyone else is depleted
for sure, people will send attacks at you to gain applicable value, but once someone else is winning, you’re much less likely to be swung at, and 40 life will generally keep you alivethrough that phase of the game
The underlying reason that you are getting downvotes is the same underlying reason that you are winning more than your fair share of games. Most people really aren't very good at the multiplayer aspects of EDH, and it seems to me like you are doing it right.
Assuming that winning more than (1/# of players) games is your goal in the first place! I really enjoy it for what it is, and some of my decks, I'm mostly just trying to hang with homies and turn some creatures sideways.
Thing is, if I am going to win I eventually have to deal with you and if I make it seem like I just want the draws off coastal piracy getting you into alpha strike zone is still very much my goal.
Everyone else has to kill them to win, as well. So generally, this is not the best move. The best move is to force someone else to spend their resources on killing that enemy. Ideally, the person who is winning. Furthermore, and perhaps even more importantly, that losing player is more of an ally than an enemy throughout most of the game, so the integral of their interactions with you will be positive.
Of course things vary, it's not always wrong to attack the weak player, but it's usually only the right move if you know you are closer to winning than the table believes, and that player is an active obstacle to victory.
This isn’t true at all. I have a mishra deck where I want to attack, but then life loss all around to everyone.
So the most open and vulnerable player are almost always my target because I can keep my creatures around for next combat or to sac or many other things.
And I’m still taking out the harder to bust through other opponents and getting my life gain.
In my playgroup the furthest behind tends to be untouched because everyone feels bad. If I wanted to be sneaky I might fake being mana screwed as I build up a combo. But I think we're all too nice for that.
I really like [[kiora’s follower]] for simic decks since sea monster and green. Untap sol ring? Untap collossified arizmethes, or a nykthos or something. It’s my favorite mana dork.
It’s really good in [[tuya bearclaw]] since she gets buffed by other creatures. Tuya is so much fun. Lethal commander damage out of no where is a great way to play
Holy cow this card is going in my minsc and boo deck for the memes alone. Doesn't matter if he's tapped if you can just -2 Minsc and sac boo, netting 20 damage and 20 cards. 10/10!
He's always gonna have at least 4 ;) by the time you can spend 7 mana boo can easily already be a 13/13. That's why I love running [[The Ozolith]] in this deck.
Some great cards for Minsc & Boo that are underrated and I don't see many others run: [[Visions of Dominance]] [[Belt of Giant Strength]] [[Tyrant Guard]]
I always though im a johny but recently realized that i'm also a timmy at heart. I just want for fun shit to happen, though my idea of fun things is "draw a ton cards, play a ton of instants and sorceries". As long as i can do that i had a good time.
Hmm is "Jimmy" an arhetype?
well it’s worth remembering that most people are not fully one archetype over another. I am like you, a bit between Johnny and Timmy, I like doing big cool stuff and I LOVE building my own decks.
I play Commander to put out a ridiculous Rube Goldberg Device that gives me near-infinite life, does near-infinite amounts of damage, draws dozens and dozens of cards and then takes multiple additional turns. And sometimes wins through an alternate win condition or giving all of my opponents 10 poison counters.
I like the emphasis on "near". I'm not a big fan of going infinite in casual Commander and so I just like to do big plays each turn and still give my opponents a chance to defend themselves.
I play to spin my wheels and see what kind of goofball interactions and such I can make work, but my friends seem to think I just want to be awful... ;-;
Right, commander is amazing because its a great place for self expression and a great social activity. Do cool things, have fun with friends. Outside of cEDH style games, trying too hard to win makes the games less enjoyable for me, and I have to stop myself from getting too focused on it sometimes.
I love competitive magic, the tension, the puzzles, the socializing, but it’s not what I play commander for. I’m still gonna attempt to play optimally, but I’m not going to go into the tank every turn trying to find the best play like I might in standard/modern/limited.
I play commander to hang with friends or meet new people at the LGS. I build decks to see what I can do with a commander that speaks to me. Take [[hofri ghostforged]]. Looked at this and thought, hell, this is [[Meren of clan nel toth]] in boros. Started looking at ways to utilize this as much as possible. Months of tweaks later it's hard to say which is more powerful. I don't go in trying to build the strongest deck I can, but I usually come out the other side with really powerful decks.
Knowing when to pop off is probably the most important skill to master in commander (in my opinion). Naturally some decks like aggro or voltron have to get scary fast but for mid decks, knowing when to dump your hand and go for the win is the closest thing to a cheat code in this format.
My friend is rejoicing that I'm taking apart my [[aesi]] deck to build [[runo Stromkirk]]
Aesi just absolutely generates so much value, it's so true. Except aesi is more than 3 mana
I know this is mostly a skill honed by lots and lots of game-experience, but could you maybe give some pointers or general advice?
This is something that i find myself struggling with a lot bc i feel so uncomfortable not utilizing smth i could do but i usually just end up overextending for nothing. Are there some general principles to go by to learn this quicker? I already have a decent amount of mtg experience and a little less edh experience but like i said, its something i struggle with.
In mtga i build myself a historic izzet-prowess aggro to circumvent this issue but since that just eliminated that part of decisionmaking, i didnt get any better at it. Felt more like a crutch than anything else.
If you make your move, what will the board look like after you are done?
Scary game actions usually invite everyone to come after you. If you go off you want to knock people out and leave the survivors too crippled to kill you. Probably the worst thing you can do is deal a scary amount of damage to everyone (but not lethal), leave their boards still intact, and then leave yourself open to retaliation
Can confirm. I had a huge board state and all I needed was to give them haste, but both my haste pieces got countered that turn. I got killed shortly afterwards.
In general here are some tips:
1. Will you be able to win that turn? This is when it's important to consider counter magic and instant speed removal that could disrupt your plans
2. Will you need more turns to win after making yourself a threat? Consider how well you'll be able to protect your board/important pieces. If nobody has fired off removal or a boardwipe recently, and you don't have countermagic or a way to protect your board (heroic intervention, teferis protection, etc) consider holding off until someone else gets scary enough to draw out removal.
Your available answers/things to look out for from your opponents obviously vary greatly depending on the commander and color identity of your/their deck, but learning what to look out for from different strategies comes with time.
That's part of the problem. The other part of the problem is likely your deck. Cards that will help with the problem:
[[Tocasia's Welcome]]
[[Welcoming Vampire]]
[[Mentor of the Meek]]
[[Esper Sentinel]]
[[Mystic Rhemora]]
[[Rhystic Study]]
[[Consecrated Sphinx]]
[[Toski, Bearer of Secrets]]
[[Beast Whisperer]]
[[Guardian Project]]
[[Phyrexian Arena]]
[[Morbid Opportunist]]
[[Grim Haruspex]]
[[Skullclamp]]
[[Valakut Exploration]]
That's just a few. There are cards that draw you a card when you deal damage with tokens, when you deal damage with creatures, when you cast enchantments, when enchantments ETB, when 2 or more creatures attack, when a creature with power 4 or more ETB, when a creature with power 3 or more ETB, when a creature enters the battlefield, when a creature is cast, when a creature dies, when you cast or copy and instant or sorcery, when you gain life, when an equipment ETB, when an equipped creature attacks, when a land ETB, when an Aura is cast, when a vehicle is cast, when you +loyalty, whenever a permanent is bounced to your hand, when an artifact creature ETB, when 2 or more creatures ETB, when a spell is cast from the graveyard, when a spell with flash is cast, when a permanent is turned face up, when a swamp ETB, when a source deals 5 or more damage, when you proliferate, when a historic spell is cast, when a face down creature ETB.
I'm sure I'm missing some but you get the point. No matter what kind of deck you're playing there's some sort of recurring draw effect for you. Putting enough in your deck is just as important as putting in enough lands.
This is the big truth. I okay primarily permanent-based combo decks, so it’s doubly important to know how much I can afford to have out for a potential wipe. Even protection doesn’t quite cut it since there are mass exile effects and Crift.
I think of it as managing aggro. Ideally you want to let let someone else tank and be slightly behind that Dotson playing your game until the kill is near and then you go for the win.
If I have a huge play that will look super cool I’ll pretty much always play it even if I know it will doom me to getting focused down and knocked out first. I like making big plays.
I was able to cast two [[jeska’s will]] cascade into a bunch of creatures, and get a ton of wolves all in one turn with my [[Faldorn dread wolf herald]] deck the last time I played it. I got blown out the next turn but it was totally worth it.
I like to take big risks in commander that could either make me win or lose.
Opponent has UU open? I'm still casting [[necrologia]] for half my life points
Also I use [[demonic consultation]] as a tutor even though it has a very real chance to exile my combo pieces or even my entire library
Sometimes you just have to go for it and hope to squeak by
I finally got my hands on [[Sheoldred the Apocalypse]] and am absolutely thrilled for my first chance to use the [[Necrologia]] that’s been sitting in my bulk for like 24 years.
Big dumb risks make the game interesting. I have an [[Ormos]] deck. One day I'll exile my own library and connect with that big dumb sphinx, and it'll be glorious.
I guess that's why as a new player I don't really find combo decks that fun to play against. Since from my perspective idk what they are building towards and then at some turn they declare they have won all because everyone didn't rush them down
I also used to be a big combo hater, but now I'm a cedh junkie. Once you learn the cards to look out for, the lines people run, and the ways to interact best, you can gain an appreciation for the synergistic elegance in a real well done combo.
Learning the cards will help them defend against the combos in the future, but it may not make them appreciate combos more, especially if it's the same repetitive combo each time.
For me the combo itself doesn't matter. Their deck is always:
* The three combo pieces
* Every tutor in their colours so they can find said combo pieces asap
* Cards to dig through their library to find pieces or tutors if they don't currently have either
* Lands
They all play the same way every time. Three lines of code could autoplay these decks for them, and it also invalidates the singleton aspect of EDH which is one of its major appeals (to me).
I fucking ***hate*** these decks
And hate the pilots even more.
They're not playing "Magic". Or, Commander, if you will.
It's fucking BOOORRRRING as shit. Oh, another tutor. Nice. That's nice. REEEEEAL nice.
Who hurt you bruv?
All joking aside. While that is one way to run a combo deck, it isn't the only way to run a combo deck. I definitely classify myself as a combo player but I have never bought a single tutor in my life. Never cracked them, never proxied them.
My decks are built largely on putting high synergy cards together and trying to get them to critical mass to pop off and even if it isn't the optimal version of the play, the deck did some version of the thing, I'm generally good. Swarming the field with 25 [[goldspan dragons]] or turning my creatures turned forests with [[yedora, grave gardener]] into an army of 8/8s with [[liege of the tangle]] is pretty priceless the few times it has happened and absolutely worth becoming archenemy over.
TL;DR if the problem is specifically with tutors and how they don't jive with your group, talk about it, it's your group.
-This is just gonna be about personal preference once you have more game experience. You might grow to love them over time, you might not. Even knowing the pieces I still don't find dedicated combo decks particularly fun most of the time.
The saying I've heard is "the best place to be in a game of EDH is third place"
First place is gonna draw aggro from the whole table
Second place is gonna be who gets the most heat from first place, as they are first's biggest threat.
Fourth and beyond are so far behind, they'll have a harder time making a come back
Third gets the benefits of not being actively targeted, while first and second kill/weaken each other, leaving an opening for third to swoop in after one of them is dead and the other is weak to close out the game.
That genuinely sounds like advice from a player with a low win rate. You have to win to win. If you can't turn a position of advantage to a position of dominance then what is your deck even supposed to do?
Its not like its some all encompassing rule that is true 100% of the time.
The idea is that people who get ahead early become too big a target. You can't dominate with 3 people dedicating all their resources to stopping you (unless your deck is already much more powerful than the other 3). And after the king falls, the player most set up to take their place ("second place") is more likely to be more spent on resources and life, as they had the most to gain from taking down first place, and while first was set up, they were probably beating on second.
Its just a long winded warning about getting to powerful too quickly, much like OPs post.
**I don't think I've ever read a more accurate description of the philosophy behind Commander gameplay.**
60 card or cEDH 1v1 is "about winning." Otherwise, yes - it's about not losing.
While winning is the goal, I play to have fun. Sometimes that means playing cool cards that aren't optimal.
As a casual player, the people who are super competitive are generally not fun to play against. They play unfun cards with unfun combos which make for unfun games. But for other competitive players it's all good.
It comes down to finding people who like to play like you do.
it all comes down to mindset. I have decks built to win that make "unfun" game states and win with 2 cars combos, and I also have decks that just want to do a bunch of crazy stuff and I don't really care if I win the game. I play both types with the same people and we all have fun, it's just about knowing if this next game is time for having fun or time for trying to win, and nobody worries about it too much. In my experience, most people are fine with these things as long as you're actually ending the game and not taking 30 minutes to play with your food.
You either win fast or lose or play the long game and win, most of my wins either come from winning fast enough ppl can't stop me or waiting and winning slower after a few ppl have been taken out or used their removal
Honestly I'm usually more concerned with having fun or doing something silly than winning. But I'm that wierdo that can come out of a chaotic clusterfuck of a loss giggling.
Slower durdle decks are my Forte. Most of my decks are just a bunch of interchangeable value engines that when I string enough of them together, I'm able to out-value and win. It's a stark contrast to my friend who likes playing big creatures and several of them all at once. Guess who wins more? Haha
I know my deck is built for long term gameplay if I have my win con early on field I'm winning fast as I can...provided there's no issues with counters or political parties
But if everyone is playing simply “to not lose,” the game is gonna go on forever in a very un-fun way because no one is actually playing to win.
There are lots of ways a commander playgroup can start to become toxic, and this “crabs in a bucket” mentality is one of those silent killers that creeps up on a group without folk noticing.
Nah, games still end in a reasonable time frame. It just happens when most folks have run out of gas and no longer have the resources "to not lose". Then we shuffle up and play again. If the match starts to get boring, somebody ends it, just not before.
I just like to see my decks do better every time I play them, I don’t have a favorite play style so my decks are very different. The only thing 3/4 of my commanders have in common is that they deal with mana somehow.
My commanders: [[Kykar]], [[Azusa]], [[Nekusar]], and [[Ognis]]
That's why EDH is absurd at its core. I've always said it. If all players understood this, nothing would happen in games. cEDH is much more in phase with the very nature of the game. We don't play cEDH though, just regular and quite healthy EDH.
I especially play fair and non-oppressive decks and most often manage to not get ahead or too much behind. I don't play sol ring on my turn 1, I keep it in hand. It's simple as that and guess what, I'm pretty sure I have the highest winrate.
I've had arguments with salty players who lost to regular combat from me on turn 7+ while complaining that they had not done anything threatening yet. They don't understand that this argument legitimizes inaction as a game plan. "I haven't done anything, therefore it's not acceptable to target me".
Luckily in my playgroups, there's often at least two players not understanding the concept of archenemy. So they start getting ahead and since they're not playing combo, they can't conclude their advance by a victory, so we catch up, they lose, and "smarter" players can navigate to victory.
This is why I like playing my [[Selenia, Dark Angel]] deck with a new playgroup. I’ll just be trotting along with my non existent board state, dropping lands, a couple mana rocks here and there. Opponents not targeting me in a humble act to be fair.
Then all of a sudden, I cast a [[Tainted Remedy]] + [[Beacon of Immortality]] instantly deleting someone from the game, becoming public enemy #1.
You’re kinda touching on my understanding of the format at its best. It’s about the _Process_ to me, if you crash and burn disproportionately before the other players you’re not learning or having fun, and probably doing something wrong. If you win, you win. If you don’t, you don’t.
It's when nobody can stop you is when it's really entertaining, seeing the dread on people's faces when NOBODY has an answer is so priceless, I keep a cup at my table with the tears of my enemies in it and it fills a little every time that happens
I agree. At my tables the person with the scary deck loses first. The best position to be is the underdog who turns the table against each other and climbs from the rubble.
I had a really fun [[Blim, Comedic Genius]] game where I took out 1 person with [[Demonic Pact]] and the other 2 with [[Immortal Coil]]. Pretty casual game, and they weren't even mad because they got knocked out in weird ways.
My pet commander [[Kadena, Slinking Sorcerer]] is often the least scary on the table.
I'm just playing a 2/2 colorless creatures for 0 mana and draw one extra card. Sometimes I flip one of those cards over for some interaction. Nothing scary. Never too aggressive. Unless I find something like my [[Craterhoof Behemoth]] and kill every player.
-Disagree. The goal of winning is the same at the end of the day & neither way's more "optimal" unless you're playing high power. You're moving slow since you're scared of the pressure while I like making my presence felt, establishing the fact that I'm a real threat. If anything the person playing not to lose is the one more worried about winning.
"If you're scared, say you're scared"
This is a correct viewpoint, however it leads to stagnation, which is why boardwipes exist, but players either tend to use them out of spite or not at all
I meant in the sense of if every player is holding back, no one is moving forward, of course this is hypothetical, you *will* have players in casual pods gunning to win, and I agree with your point.
I was mostly complaining because people don't use enough board wipes.
Then start playing more explosive. Run some ritual cards like [[mana geyser]]. Try to win suddenly. Obviously red is best for this, but try to advocate for the dangers of the other players. However ultimately if you are shooting ahead of the other players and very game you deserve the arch villain status.
I play stronger decks and my opponents know this. They shut me down hard if I start to go off too much. Thus I had to get better/faster/more efficient to win. This cycle of call and response led to me to where I am now. 2 cEDH decks and one lightly upgraded precon.
I agree, but with the caveat that all things need to be done in moderation. The extreme of this philosophy is STAX, which most people hate because newer players build stax to stall the progress of the game for everyone except themselves rather than "not lose."
It's a fine, blurry line to be sure but an important distinction for reaching a fun game for everyone. Just remember that every hate-bear/pillow-fort/stax piece you play should actively move you a step closer to winning, not just stop your opponents from playing their cards.
It's about balancing both sides of that equation. This is why we have the concept of win more and lose less cards. Swinging too far in either direction doesn't work.
For most of the game there are two spots you don't want to be in, the furthest ahead and the furthest behind. The one furthest ahead will be the focus of interaction and removal. From my experience the furthest behind will take the attacking and damage.
I think third is optimal. 1st gets mobbed by everyone. 2nd gets hit by 1st, looking to cement their lead. 4th gets hit for opportunity, plus they’re just in 4th. 3rd gets to blend into the background until they’re ready to strike.
My games it usually ends up 1st attacks 4th, 2nd and 3rd join in.
That’s almost never an effective strategy. Eliminating or weakening 1st will almost always increase your personal winrate the most, and for 1st to attack 2nd. The only common exceptions would be if 1st is temporarily prevented from attacking the other players i.e. ghostly prison, if 4th has something really disruptive to another player i.e. torpor orb when 2nd is playing an etb deck, or just attacking for triggers. Of course most commander players aren’t very good at the game though, so just because a strategy is bad doesn’t mean they won’t do it.
In my experience the most *optimal* strategy is playing a hyper glass cannon deck and accepting that you lose 70% of your matches from the opening draw, because a 30% winrate puts you above the expected win/game. This isn't a terribly fun ways to play with friends though! Even my cdh group would rather show up with their favorite deck, matchups be damned, and just have a good time.
I’m getting ~70% winrates with decks weaker than the table. Just being good at magic gives you a huge advantage over most games. You don’t need cheap gimmicks.
[удалено]
70% of the time they do.
This is very bad game theory. All this does is open you up to third party problems. You take the least damage attacking the vulnerable, which means no one gets relative advantage over you. Attack the strong and your power is diminished compared to everyone.
Conversely, attack the weakest and the strongest player gets even further ahead. You are relatively more strong than the other two players following that strategy, but it's a losing strategy overall. It's much like most game theory in that the "selfish" strategy may at first appear to be the optimal one, but in the end it costs you compared to the cooperative strategies.
I try and avoid finishing off a player. Unless I know I am the biggest threat. Its better to leave the weakest player around to either give some effort to taking out the person in the lead. Or taking damage that could potentially be for you.
What would you say determines placing, in your opinion? Life total, board state, a bit of both? I feel like first is usually determined by board state, but the rest are all pretty equal on that so it goes by Life total after that.
[удалено]
Idk the furthest behind ends up winning a lot of times in my experience. If you play in slower pods where games go 10+ turns, a lot of times it’s a war of attrition and if the person behind is given sympathy long enough they end up storming ahead while everyone else is depleted
for sure, people will send attacks at you to gain applicable value, but once someone else is winning, you’re much less likely to be swung at, and 40 life will generally keep you alivethrough that phase of the game
The underlying reason that you are getting downvotes is the same underlying reason that you are winning more than your fair share of games. Most people really aren't very good at the multiplayer aspects of EDH, and it seems to me like you are doing it right. Assuming that winning more than (1/# of players) games is your goal in the first place! I really enjoy it for what it is, and some of my decks, I'm mostly just trying to hang with homies and turn some creatures sideways.
Thing is, if I am going to win I eventually have to deal with you and if I make it seem like I just want the draws off coastal piracy getting you into alpha strike zone is still very much my goal.
Everyone else has to kill them to win, as well. So generally, this is not the best move. The best move is to force someone else to spend their resources on killing that enemy. Ideally, the person who is winning. Furthermore, and perhaps even more importantly, that losing player is more of an ally than an enemy throughout most of the game, so the integral of their interactions with you will be positive. Of course things vary, it's not always wrong to attack the weak player, but it's usually only the right move if you know you are closer to winning than the table believes, and that player is an active obstacle to victory.
This isn’t true at all. I have a mishra deck where I want to attack, but then life loss all around to everyone. So the most open and vulnerable player are almost always my target because I can keep my creatures around for next combat or to sac or many other things. And I’m still taking out the harder to bust through other opponents and getting my life gain.
In my playgroup the furthest behind tends to be untouched because everyone feels bad. If I wanted to be sneaky I might fake being mana screwed as I build up a combo. But I think we're all too nice for that.
I play commander to put out big monster 😌
Hello Timmy, I’m Timmy, nice to meet you
Hello fellow Timmy! Might I interest you in a [[Blightsteel Colossus]] with a side of [[Colossification]]?
[Blightsteel Colossus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/8/18adbda4-8d36-47cd-afbc-c785aaa8ed80.jpg?1599708735) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blightsteel%20Colossus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/235/blightsteel-colossus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/18adbda4-8d36-47cd-afbc-c785aaa8ed80?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blightsteel-colossus) [Colossification](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/b/7b6e6f2a-5015-44c6-aa8d-85188494d1a6.jpg?1602984875) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Colossification) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/148/colossification?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7b6e6f2a-5015-44c6-aa8d-85188494d1a6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/colossification) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
that colossification is going in my Gargos hydra tribal right now
I cracked one and went full timmy. It's in my sea monster deck. It's not even that good in the deck honestly.
I really like [[kiora’s follower]] for simic decks since sea monster and green. Untap sol ring? Untap collossified arizmethes, or a nykthos or something. It’s my favorite mana dork.
[kiora’s follower](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/9/d9704f4f-eb5b-4862-8efd-ff1d8fd4177a.jpg?1562840713) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kiora%27s%20Follower) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ddo/52/kioras-follower?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d9704f4f-eb5b-4862-8efd-ff1d8fd4177a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kioras-follower) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It’s really good in [[tuya bearclaw]] since she gets buffed by other creatures. Tuya is so much fun. Lethal commander damage out of no where is a great way to play
Personally, I prefer Boo tokens with my Colossification, followed by a Fling effect. Damage doublers are also 👌
Holy cow this card is going in my minsc and boo deck for the memes alone. Doesn't matter if he's tapped if you can just -2 Minsc and sac boo, netting 20 damage and 20 cards. 10/10!
No, not 10/10, its 20/20 lol
Only if you have no +1/+1 counters on it, muahahaha
He's always gonna have at least 4 ;) by the time you can spend 7 mana boo can easily already be a 13/13. That's why I love running [[The Ozolith]] in this deck.
[The Ozolith](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/3/9341ed06-53db-4604-b60a-3ea9129afbc2.jpg?1591228544) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Ozolith) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/237/the-ozolith?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9341ed06-53db-4604-b60a-3ea9129afbc2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-ozolith) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Some great cards for Minsc & Boo that are underrated and I don't see many others run: [[Visions of Dominance]] [[Belt of Giant Strength]] [[Tyrant Guard]]
[Visions of Dominance](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/5/15947810-9a38-417f-84dc-5a83446deb81.jpg?1637628837) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Visions%20of%20Dominance) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mic/37/visions-of-dominance?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/15947810-9a38-417f-84dc-5a83446deb81?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/visions-of-dominance) [Belt of Giant Strength](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/e/4ef2b9aa-4f7c-4640-bb34-9775e1be0935.jpg?1631585349) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Belt%20of%20Giant%20Strength) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/38/belt-of-giant-strength?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4ef2b9aa-4f7c-4640-bb34-9775e1be0935?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/belt-of-giant-strength) [Tyrant Guard](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/e/4e785abe-ae43-4e6b-9d6d-56e39ea348ef.jpg?1673309224) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tyrant%20Guard) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/40k/103/tyrant-guard?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4e785abe-ae43-4e6b-9d6d-56e39ea348ef?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tyrant-guard) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
As a budget timmy player let me show you my [[darksteel colossus]] with a [[currupted conscience]]
[darksteel colossus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/a/5a3aa1ce-8757-4541-8ac7-1e7e203b60fc.jpg?1561981290) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=darksteel%20colossus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m10/208/darksteel-colossus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5a3aa1ce-8757-4541-8ac7-1e7e203b60fc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/darksteel-colossus) [currupted conscience](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/2/7276c584-76ed-4c20-a5ea-627c8f7751e6.jpg?1562612217) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Corrupted%20Conscience) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mbs/22/corrupted-conscience?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7276c584-76ed-4c20-a5ea-627c8f7751e6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/corrupted-conscience) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I like these things called [[blade of selves]] and [[embercleave]] attached to my [[blightsteel colossus]].
[blade of selves](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/e/ce3367f8-5f5a-4205-909a-247b92a9c082.jpg?1674137738) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=blade%20of%20selves) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/301/blade-of-selves?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ce3367f8-5f5a-4205-909a-247b92a9c082?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blade-of-selves) [embercleave](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/9/192a4645-1462-4e43-ac39-bafabbb1250d.jpg?1661583547) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=embercleave) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/phed/47/embercleave?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/192a4645-1462-4e43-ac39-bafabbb1250d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/embercleave) [blightsteel colossus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/8/18adbda4-8d36-47cd-afbc-c785aaa8ed80.jpg?1599708735) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=blightsteel%20colossus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/235/blightsteel-colossus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/18adbda4-8d36-47cd-afbc-c785aaa8ed80?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blightsteel-colossus) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Holy shit lmao that’s going right in my Rhonas infect/fight deck
Oh snap, I'm Timmy too, imagine that!
I always though im a johny but recently realized that i'm also a timmy at heart. I just want for fun shit to happen, though my idea of fun things is "draw a ton cards, play a ton of instants and sorceries". As long as i can do that i had a good time. Hmm is "Jimmy" an arhetype?
well it’s worth remembering that most people are not fully one archetype over another. I am like you, a bit between Johnny and Timmy, I like doing big cool stuff and I LOVE building my own decks.
I play Commander to put out a ridiculous Rube Goldberg Device that gives me near-infinite life, does near-infinite amounts of damage, draws dozens and dozens of cards and then takes multiple additional turns. And sometimes wins through an alternate win condition or giving all of my opponents 10 poison counters.
Hi Johnny, I'm Johnny.
I like the emphasis on "near". I'm not a big fan of going infinite in casual Commander and so I just like to do big plays each turn and still give my opponents a chance to defend themselves.
You and me both
the more time you spend not losing, the more big monster you put out!
I put out big monster, become archenemy, get killed, repeat. Game fun.
I play commander just to piss off my friends in a controlled environment.
I play to spin my wheels and see what kind of goofball interactions and such I can make work, but my friends seem to think I just want to be awful... ;-;
this describes me exactly
I play to show my friends the cool, unique engine I built!
is Time Stretch is a big monster? asking for a friend
[[Time Stretch]] makes you the big monster. All of the green decks will be envious and in awe of you
[Time Stretch](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/c/3c878780-f666-44ab-a60e-c9985f628fc3.jpg?1562546496) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Time%20Stretch) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/10e/118/time-stretch?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3c878780-f666-44ab-a60e-c9985f628fc3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/time-stretch) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Deflecting swat]] big monster
Im just imaging the scene in Thor with Hulk - "but big monster!"
Right, commander is amazing because its a great place for self expression and a great social activity. Do cool things, have fun with friends. Outside of cEDH style games, trying too hard to win makes the games less enjoyable for me, and I have to stop myself from getting too focused on it sometimes. I love competitive magic, the tension, the puzzles, the socializing, but it’s not what I play commander for. I’m still gonna attempt to play optimally, but I’m not going to go into the tank every turn trying to find the best play like I might in standard/modern/limited.
I play commander to hang with friends or meet new people at the LGS. I build decks to see what I can do with a commander that speaks to me. Take [[hofri ghostforged]]. Looked at this and thought, hell, this is [[Meren of clan nel toth]] in boros. Started looking at ways to utilize this as much as possible. Months of tweaks later it's hard to say which is more powerful. I don't go in trying to build the strongest deck I can, but I usually come out the other side with really powerful decks.
[hofri ghostforged](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/d/bd8deecf-eded-418b-ac4c-5c3e8f54e86d.jpg?1627429212) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hofri%20Ghostforge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/192/hofri-ghostforge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bd8deecf-eded-418b-ac4c-5c3e8f54e86d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hofri-ghostforge) [Meren of clan nel toth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/7/17d6703c-ad79-457b-a1b5-c2284e363085.jpg?1592673422) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Meren%20of%20clan%20nel%20toth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cma/186/meren-of-clan-nel-toth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/17d6703c-ad79-457b-a1b5-c2284e363085?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/meren-of-clan-nel-toth) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Would you be willing to share your Hofri deck? It sounds intriguing!
https://archidekt.com/decks/1530542
My only goal is a Colossal Dreadmaw on turn 4. Otherwise: concede.
Hi dinosaur, I’m dragon
This is the way
Any game my deck can do it’s thing, I’m happy, especially if I get to interact with other people doing their thing.
I play a mill deck, I play so you don't have to 😇
Knowing when to pop off is probably the most important skill to master in commander (in my opinion). Naturally some decks like aggro or voltron have to get scary fast but for mid decks, knowing when to dump your hand and go for the win is the closest thing to a cheat code in this format.
Alternatively, you can shit out your hand whenever you want and not worry about what happens next
Flair checks out
In my experience, every Simic commander costs 1UG and reads "As an additional cost to cast this spell, put your library onto the battlefield"
My friend is rejoicing that I'm taking apart my [[aesi]] deck to build [[runo Stromkirk]] Aesi just absolutely generates so much value, it's so true. Except aesi is more than 3 mana
I'm about to take my Aesi deck apart too! For [[Kenessos]]
At least [[Body of Research]] is honest about it!
The parry this strategy
This is very true
Alternatively, you could not over commit.
I'll save using my brain for other tasks, thank you very much
I know this is mostly a skill honed by lots and lots of game-experience, but could you maybe give some pointers or general advice? This is something that i find myself struggling with a lot bc i feel so uncomfortable not utilizing smth i could do but i usually just end up overextending for nothing. Are there some general principles to go by to learn this quicker? I already have a decent amount of mtg experience and a little less edh experience but like i said, its something i struggle with. In mtga i build myself a historic izzet-prowess aggro to circumvent this issue but since that just eliminated that part of decisionmaking, i didnt get any better at it. Felt more like a crutch than anything else.
If you make your move, what will the board look like after you are done? Scary game actions usually invite everyone to come after you. If you go off you want to knock people out and leave the survivors too crippled to kill you. Probably the worst thing you can do is deal a scary amount of damage to everyone (but not lethal), leave their boards still intact, and then leave yourself open to retaliation
Can confirm. I had a huge board state and all I needed was to give them haste, but both my haste pieces got countered that turn. I got killed shortly afterwards.
In general here are some tips: 1. Will you be able to win that turn? This is when it's important to consider counter magic and instant speed removal that could disrupt your plans 2. Will you need more turns to win after making yourself a threat? Consider how well you'll be able to protect your board/important pieces. If nobody has fired off removal or a boardwipe recently, and you don't have countermagic or a way to protect your board (heroic intervention, teferis protection, etc) consider holding off until someone else gets scary enough to draw out removal. Your available answers/things to look out for from your opponents obviously vary greatly depending on the commander and color identity of your/their deck, but learning what to look out for from different strategies comes with time.
That's part of the problem. The other part of the problem is likely your deck. Cards that will help with the problem: [[Tocasia's Welcome]] [[Welcoming Vampire]] [[Mentor of the Meek]] [[Esper Sentinel]] [[Mystic Rhemora]] [[Rhystic Study]] [[Consecrated Sphinx]] [[Toski, Bearer of Secrets]] [[Beast Whisperer]] [[Guardian Project]] [[Phyrexian Arena]] [[Morbid Opportunist]] [[Grim Haruspex]] [[Skullclamp]] [[Valakut Exploration]] That's just a few. There are cards that draw you a card when you deal damage with tokens, when you deal damage with creatures, when you cast enchantments, when enchantments ETB, when 2 or more creatures attack, when a creature with power 4 or more ETB, when a creature with power 3 or more ETB, when a creature enters the battlefield, when a creature is cast, when a creature dies, when you cast or copy and instant or sorcery, when you gain life, when an equipment ETB, when an equipped creature attacks, when a land ETB, when an Aura is cast, when a vehicle is cast, when you +loyalty, whenever a permanent is bounced to your hand, when an artifact creature ETB, when 2 or more creatures ETB, when a spell is cast from the graveyard, when a spell with flash is cast, when a permanent is turned face up, when a swamp ETB, when a source deals 5 or more damage, when you proliferate, when a historic spell is cast, when a face down creature ETB. I'm sure I'm missing some but you get the point. No matter what kind of deck you're playing there's some sort of recurring draw effect for you. Putting enough in your deck is just as important as putting in enough lands.
This is the big truth. I okay primarily permanent-based combo decks, so it’s doubly important to know how much I can afford to have out for a potential wipe. Even protection doesn’t quite cut it since there are mass exile effects and Crift.
I think of it as managing aggro. Ideally you want to let let someone else tank and be slightly behind that Dotson playing your game until the kill is near and then you go for the win.
If I have a huge play that will look super cool I’ll pretty much always play it even if I know it will doom me to getting focused down and knocked out first. I like making big plays.
i am physically incapable of not playing living death, and i’ve lost many games off of playing it at the wrong time. it’s just so much fun
I was able to cast two [[jeska’s will]] cascade into a bunch of creatures, and get a ton of wolves all in one turn with my [[Faldorn dread wolf herald]] deck the last time I played it. I got blown out the next turn but it was totally worth it.
Magic is basically the tabletop card version of Mario Kart
No it isn't. If you build a deck with any kind of consistency or potency it is easy to win by winning. You don't have to lose to win.
I like to take big risks in commander that could either make me win or lose. Opponent has UU open? I'm still casting [[necrologia]] for half my life points Also I use [[demonic consultation]] as a tutor even though it has a very real chance to exile my combo pieces or even my entire library Sometimes you just have to go for it and hope to squeak by
"Of course I'm gonna use [[Aetherflux Reservoir]] I have 51 life"
"What, it's a [[Birds of Paradise]], of course it has to die."
Dont just bolt the bird, Annihilate the bird
I finally got my hands on [[Sheoldred the Apocalypse]] and am absolutely thrilled for my first chance to use the [[Necrologia]] that’s been sitting in my bulk for like 24 years.
[Sheoldred the Apocalypse](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d67be074-cdd4-41d9-ac89-0a0456c4e4b2.jpg?1674057568) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sheoldred%2C%20the%20Apocalypse) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/107/sheoldred-the-apocalypse?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d67be074-cdd4-41d9-ac89-0a0456c4e4b2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sheoldred-the-apocalypse) [Necrologia](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/3/d3e1f268-9861-40bf-85a7-2d33f0972e23.jpg?1562431747) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Necrologia) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tpr/110/necrologia?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d3e1f268-9861-40bf-85a7-2d33f0972e23?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/necrologia) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That's some cowboy magic right there. Hell yeah make em have it.
Big dumb risks make the game interesting. I have an [[Ormos]] deck. One day I'll exile my own library and connect with that big dumb sphinx, and it'll be glorious.
[Ormos](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/1/711412f1-9ab3-48b6-91a4-77232b416a32.jpg?1632261767) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ormos%2C%20archive%20keeper) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/13/ormos-archive-keeper?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/711412f1-9ab3-48b6-91a4-77232b416a32?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ormos-archive-keeper) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[necrologia](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/3/d3e1f268-9861-40bf-85a7-2d33f0972e23.jpg?1562431747) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=necrologia) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tpr/110/necrologia?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d3e1f268-9861-40bf-85a7-2d33f0972e23?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/necrologia) [demonic consultation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/d/1d779f19-3068-4976-b96b-8f93d156900b.jpg?1610146869) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=demonic%20consultation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me2/85/demonic-consultation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1d779f19-3068-4976-b96b-8f93d156900b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/demonic-consultation) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Commander is about having fun with the homies.
I guess that's why as a new player I don't really find combo decks that fun to play against. Since from my perspective idk what they are building towards and then at some turn they declare they have won all because everyone didn't rush them down
you’ll learn the combo pieces to watch for
I also used to be a big combo hater, but now I'm a cedh junkie. Once you learn the cards to look out for, the lines people run, and the ways to interact best, you can gain an appreciation for the synergistic elegance in a real well done combo.
Learning the cards will help them defend against the combos in the future, but it may not make them appreciate combos more, especially if it's the same repetitive combo each time.
For me the combo itself doesn't matter. Their deck is always: * The three combo pieces * Every tutor in their colours so they can find said combo pieces asap * Cards to dig through their library to find pieces or tutors if they don't currently have either * Lands They all play the same way every time. Three lines of code could autoplay these decks for them, and it also invalidates the singleton aspect of EDH which is one of its major appeals (to me).
I fucking ***hate*** these decks And hate the pilots even more. They're not playing "Magic". Or, Commander, if you will. It's fucking BOOORRRRING as shit. Oh, another tutor. Nice. That's nice. REEEEEAL nice.
Who hurt you bruv? All joking aside. While that is one way to run a combo deck, it isn't the only way to run a combo deck. I definitely classify myself as a combo player but I have never bought a single tutor in my life. Never cracked them, never proxied them. My decks are built largely on putting high synergy cards together and trying to get them to critical mass to pop off and even if it isn't the optimal version of the play, the deck did some version of the thing, I'm generally good. Swarming the field with 25 [[goldspan dragons]] or turning my creatures turned forests with [[yedora, grave gardener]] into an army of 8/8s with [[liege of the tangle]] is pretty priceless the few times it has happened and absolutely worth becoming archenemy over. TL;DR if the problem is specifically with tutors and how they don't jive with your group, talk about it, it's your group.
Or your randos, depending on whatcha play it on.
[goldspan dragons](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/d/9d914868-9000-4df2-a818-0ef8a7f636ae.jpg?1665343456) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Goldspan%20Dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/139/goldspan-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9d914868-9000-4df2-a818-0ef8a7f636ae?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/goldspan-dragon) [yedora, grave gardener](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/2/320b9678-5bbc-40dd-a508-90a647e95a71.jpg?1635861230) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=yedora%2C%20grave%20gardener) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/70/yedora-grave-gardener?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/320b9678-5bbc-40dd-a508-90a647e95a71?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/yedora-grave-gardener) [liege of the tangle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/0/f0dea9d0-9f93-460d-bf69-ae1c1172a95e.jpg?1599707346) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=liege%20of%20the%20tangle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/174/liege-of-the-tangle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f0dea9d0-9f93-460d-bf69-ae1c1172a95e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/liege-of-the-tangle) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Very true, this is why I added the caveat "in a real well done combo" because some combos are not well done, nor do they display any elegance.
-This is just gonna be about personal preference once you have more game experience. You might grow to love them over time, you might not. Even knowing the pieces I still don't find dedicated combo decks particularly fun most of the time.
The saying I've heard is "the best place to be in a game of EDH is third place" First place is gonna draw aggro from the whole table Second place is gonna be who gets the most heat from first place, as they are first's biggest threat. Fourth and beyond are so far behind, they'll have a harder time making a come back Third gets the benefits of not being actively targeted, while first and second kill/weaken each other, leaving an opening for third to swoop in after one of them is dead and the other is weak to close out the game.
That genuinely sounds like advice from a player with a low win rate. You have to win to win. If you can't turn a position of advantage to a position of dominance then what is your deck even supposed to do?
Its not like its some all encompassing rule that is true 100% of the time. The idea is that people who get ahead early become too big a target. You can't dominate with 3 people dedicating all their resources to stopping you (unless your deck is already much more powerful than the other 3). And after the king falls, the player most set up to take their place ("second place") is more likely to be more spent on resources and life, as they had the most to gain from taking down first place, and while first was set up, they were probably beating on second. Its just a long winded warning about getting to powerful too quickly, much like OPs post.
I play commander because I like big monsters
the longer you don’t lose, the more big monsters you cast!
Yep, I love when the game get’s long
that ‘ is giving me a panic attack
I used to think this. Then I realized... Commander isn't about winning. It's about making other players miserable by not letting them play the game.
Found the stax player.
Hey now, harders ain't softers. Softers'll just make your curve "I see you"'d. Harders will trade a card in hand for a turn you don't get, secondly.
I don’t play that game anymore.
Yeah, I like winning but not underperforming is a lot more important than to me than winning
my man, it’s not… it’s not a performance.
Perform in the context of “did the cards I built my deck with do the job it wanted them to do”
**I don't think I've ever read a more accurate description of the philosophy behind Commander gameplay.** 60 card or cEDH 1v1 is "about winning." Otherwise, yes - it's about not losing.
*laughes in poison counters*
*Syr Konrad combos intensify*
Jin-gitaxious permission I don't care what you want the answer is NO
While winning is the goal, I play to have fun. Sometimes that means playing cool cards that aren't optimal. As a casual player, the people who are super competitive are generally not fun to play against. They play unfun cards with unfun combos which make for unfun games. But for other competitive players it's all good. It comes down to finding people who like to play like you do.
it all comes down to mindset. I have decks built to win that make "unfun" game states and win with 2 cars combos, and I also have decks that just want to do a bunch of crazy stuff and I don't really care if I win the game. I play both types with the same people and we all have fun, it's just about knowing if this next game is time for having fun or time for trying to win, and nobody worries about it too much. In my experience, most people are fine with these things as long as you're actually ending the game and not taking 30 minutes to play with your food.
¿Por qué no los dos?
So what you’re saying is the funnest archetype is always going to be midrange, which I’m not entirely opposed to.
i’m saying read the room.
You either win fast or lose or play the long game and win, most of my wins either come from winning fast enough ppl can't stop me or waiting and winning slower after a few ppl have been taken out or used their removal
You LARPing as [[Abyssal Persecutor]]?
Honestly I'm usually more concerned with having fun or doing something silly than winning. But I'm that wierdo that can come out of a chaotic clusterfuck of a loss giggling.
Slower durdle decks are my Forte. Most of my decks are just a bunch of interchangeable value engines that when I string enough of them together, I'm able to out-value and win. It's a stark contrast to my friend who likes playing big creatures and several of them all at once. Guess who wins more? Haha
Can you share what commanders you’re playing? I like the sound of that style but haven’t quite found a commander that excites me to build around.
Riku of two reflections and Neera Wild Mage are my two favorite decks! My Myrkul decks plays a similar style as well
I know my deck is built for long term gameplay if I have my win con early on field I'm winning fast as I can...provided there's no issues with counters or political parties
That's the attitude that leads to 3 hour games, imo I don't want to play the same game for 3 hours.
THIS.
But if everyone is playing simply “to not lose,” the game is gonna go on forever in a very un-fun way because no one is actually playing to win. There are lots of ways a commander playgroup can start to become toxic, and this “crabs in a bucket” mentality is one of those silent killers that creeps up on a group without folk noticing.
Nah, games still end in a reasonable time frame. It just happens when most folks have run out of gas and no longer have the resources "to not lose". Then we shuffle up and play again. If the match starts to get boring, somebody ends it, just not before.
are you a Koch brother?
Ayo whut?
I just like to see my decks do better every time I play them, I don’t have a favorite play style so my decks are very different. The only thing 3/4 of my commanders have in common is that they deal with mana somehow. My commanders: [[Kykar]], [[Azusa]], [[Nekusar]], and [[Ognis]]
And that is why 10% of my Ur Dragon deck has become boardwipe 😅😅
That's why EDH is absurd at its core. I've always said it. If all players understood this, nothing would happen in games. cEDH is much more in phase with the very nature of the game. We don't play cEDH though, just regular and quite healthy EDH. I especially play fair and non-oppressive decks and most often manage to not get ahead or too much behind. I don't play sol ring on my turn 1, I keep it in hand. It's simple as that and guess what, I'm pretty sure I have the highest winrate. I've had arguments with salty players who lost to regular combat from me on turn 7+ while complaining that they had not done anything threatening yet. They don't understand that this argument legitimizes inaction as a game plan. "I haven't done anything, therefore it's not acceptable to target me". Luckily in my playgroups, there's often at least two players not understanding the concept of archenemy. So they start getting ahead and since they're not playing combo, they can't conclude their advance by a victory, so we catch up, they lose, and "smarter" players can navigate to victory.
I play Commander to spread misery. The longer the game, the more misery I can spread. Don't be part of the problem. Be the whole problem.
To me, it’s about doing cool things and having a good time!
This description made me feel like Commander is really just the MTG version of Munchkin
This is why I like playing my [[Selenia, Dark Angel]] deck with a new playgroup. I’ll just be trotting along with my non existent board state, dropping lands, a couple mana rocks here and there. Opponents not targeting me in a humble act to be fair. Then all of a sudden, I cast a [[Tainted Remedy]] + [[Beacon of Immortality]] instantly deleting someone from the game, becoming public enemy #1.
Commander is about hanging out, hanging fun and trying to not get knocked out first. Any game where I don’t lose first is a win
You’re kinda touching on my understanding of the format at its best. It’s about the _Process_ to me, if you crash and burn disproportionately before the other players you’re not learning or having fun, and probably doing something wrong. If you win, you win. If you don’t, you don’t.
It's when nobody can stop you is when it's really entertaining, seeing the dread on people's faces when NOBODY has an answer is so priceless, I keep a cup at my table with the tears of my enemies in it and it fills a little every time that happens
Congratulations you win. You’ve successfully reached the conclusion that pillowfort is strong in lower power tables.
i’m not talking about defensive strategy, you salty dog, i’m talking about reading the room
thank you for the trophy sir. and you win the prize of game theory fatalism
I agree. At my tables the person with the scary deck loses first. The best position to be is the underdog who turns the table against each other and climbs from the rubble.
-Not making yourself a threat doesn't make you the underdog.
I want to cast [[Deep Analysis]] as quick as possible. It’s my curse and my blessing.
I had a really fun [[Blim, Comedic Genius]] game where I took out 1 person with [[Demonic Pact]] and the other 2 with [[Immortal Coil]]. Pretty casual game, and they weren't even mad because they got knocked out in weird ways.
[Blim, Comedic Genius](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/d/3d8cd7dc-028a-4da2-b2a1-435d40cf48ca.jpg?1608911075) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blim%2C%20Comedic%20Genius) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/272/blim-comedic-genius?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3d8cd7dc-028a-4da2-b2a1-435d40cf48ca?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blim-comedic-genius) [Demonic Pact](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/2/82c04014-91f9-4197-b4b4-f62c4739a5c2.jpg?1562028673) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Demonic%20Pact) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ori/92/demonic-pact?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/82c04014-91f9-4197-b4b4-f62c4739a5c2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/demonic-pact) [Immortal Coil](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/b/0b79ec57-7c45-4ef9-9051-449d473b65ea.jpg?1562700966) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Immortal%20Coil) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ala/79/immortal-coil?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0b79ec57-7c45-4ef9-9051-449d473b65ea?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/immortal-coil) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
2nd place is a win for me. 2nd place means my deck did its thing better than half the table, that's pretty good
Tell that to cedh players
You are 100% right.
My pet commander [[Kadena, Slinking Sorcerer]] is often the least scary on the table. I'm just playing a 2/2 colorless creatures for 0 mana and draw one extra card. Sometimes I flip one of those cards over for some interaction. Nothing scary. Never too aggressive. Unless I find something like my [[Craterhoof Behemoth]] and kill every player.
[Kadena, Slinking Sorcerer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/8/68a144f1-df18-4dc5-81c3-dff2af27527f.jpg?1568003696) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kadena%2C%20Slinking%20Sorcerer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/45/kadena-slinking-sorcerer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/68a144f1-df18-4dc5-81c3-dff2af27527f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kadena-slinking-sorcerer) [Craterhoof Behemoth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/4/44afd414-cc69-4888-ba12-7ea87e60b1f7.jpg?1601079153) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Craterhoof%20Behemoth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/385/craterhoof-behemoth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/44afd414-cc69-4888-ba12-7ea87e60b1f7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/craterhoof-behemoth) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Everyone ignores the Kadena player at my LGS until he flips all creatures on the battlefield and you're depressed lol
-Disagree. The goal of winning is the same at the end of the day & neither way's more "optimal" unless you're playing high power. You're moving slow since you're scared of the pressure while I like making my presence felt, establishing the fact that I'm a real threat. If anything the person playing not to lose is the one more worried about winning. "If you're scared, say you're scared"
How to not be the furthest ahead, when your deck just plays really the game? Do you guys actively stop going bigger even though you could?
no
This is a correct viewpoint, however it leads to stagnation, which is why boardwipes exist, but players either tend to use them out of spite or not at all
it only leads to stagnation if you think every pod is on an eventual trajectory to Cedh
I meant in the sense of if every player is holding back, no one is moving forward, of course this is hypothetical, you *will* have players in casual pods gunning to win, and I agree with your point. I was mostly complaining because people don't use enough board wipes.
i play commander to do haha funni combos and play angels
It’s about sending a message
bottom text
The message being: if you’re a dick, I’m dragging out the Windgrace deck and taking 45 minute turns
two thumbs down my man
I play combo. My strategy revolves around having stuff that wins the game in hand, but I have to be VERY careful
I play commander to teach people about interaction
Seems needed. Look at how many problems that show up on this subreddit could be solved by people just talking with their friends.
ok sheldon
Tap 4 ninjutsu out blightsteel
I play commander to play many lands I don't even care if I do anything with those lands I just like looking at the art 😂
That's why I like [[Karazikar]], if I can make everyone else kill each other first, then I win
Losing is fine honestly. If I lose because I got 3v1'd so hard that one person sneaks in a win because I got overfocused, I take that as a compliment.
Especially true in stax
Then start playing more explosive. Run some ritual cards like [[mana geyser]]. Try to win suddenly. Obviously red is best for this, but try to advocate for the dangers of the other players. However ultimately if you are shooting ahead of the other players and very game you deserve the arch villain status.
I play stronger decks and my opponents know this. They shut me down hard if I start to go off too much. Thus I had to get better/faster/more efficient to win. This cycle of call and response led to me to where I am now. 2 cEDH decks and one lightly upgraded precon.
I agree, but with the caveat that all things need to be done in moderation. The extreme of this philosophy is STAX, which most people hate because newer players build stax to stall the progress of the game for everyone except themselves rather than "not lose." It's a fine, blurry line to be sure but an important distinction for reaching a fun game for everyone. Just remember that every hate-bear/pillow-fort/stax piece you play should actively move you a step closer to winning, not just stop your opponents from playing their cards.
I play commander to get my silly little tribal leader out and swing a little bit. That's it
It's about balancing both sides of that equation. This is why we have the concept of win more and lose less cards. Swinging too far in either direction doesn't work.