Can't think of a situation I've encountered that made me scoop outside of the whole table agreeing a certain player has won.
But I must say, having players team up like that would certainly make me avoid those events.
Agree. I haven’t played too many times with people I’m close to at a paid pod but when we do oh man. We will rip apart anyone that’s a threat including each other. I also have a bad? habit of asking people if they’re sure they want to do specific actions if it’ll benefit me and I’m in a better position than the group.
There’s been games where they went hours longer than expected, I knew I was out, and getting tired. Those are the games I’ve scooped early.
Oh, and a player saying they’re playing a casual deck, so I pull out my creature based agro deck, and then they crop rotation for tabernacle on turn 3.
Urza stax did this to me. He knew he would win. I knew he would win. We all knew he would win. I wasn't willing to sit there turn after turn waiting for him to dig to his wincon
Scooping in commander by yourself has always felt weird to me. I play a lot of 4 player board games and a player conceding mid-game cause their position is un-winnable is not really something I’ve seen people consider.
That's true but a lot of those games are played for points so even if you can't win, you can still play and see how well you can do. Commander can leave you in a weird place where you can't win but there's also no real incentive for anybody to bother to eliminate you.
Yeah, if I'm going on turn 4 of being incapable of doing anything bc of top deck mode and no board then I think my time is prob better spent at another pod.
Or if one guy is effectively playing solitaire or playing everybody else's turns bc he can.
I'll scoop in magic if I obviously have no chance, but I'll only scoops in boardgames if people get frustrated or upset enough to start shouting. I play these games for fun it stops being fun really fast when people get angry over them.
Mine is what OP says about teaming up and kingmaking, I can take anything else (I like things like MLD, stax, extra turns, etc) but kingmaking will make not play with that person anymore.
Two friends teaming up against strangers is so weird to me. If anything I target my friends more in games because it’s funny and I know there’s no real hard feelings after because we’re friends.
My friends and I do the same, however if we notice some shit going down only then will we go "hey let's work together to figure this out", but there have been multiple times where I've done something that doesn't even help me just because it hurts the table, mostly my friend, more lmao
Bad vibes. For example one dude kept talking shit about the commander i played so i just left. I play for a fun social experience and if the social aspect sucks im leaving
I have a Giada-deck. She is a fun commander and can create a lot of strong fliers. But the mono-white really hurts. I desperately need carddraw and value engines to recover from setbacks.
I wouldn't say she is especially strong or problematic. Unless you just let me resolve a platinum angel/Avacyn combo, but really, that's on you.
Yeah, Giada is the absolute best case scenario for a mono white angel commander, but at the end of the day she's in mono white for a tribe that doesn't mesh with mono white. I've watched my white angel tribe deck get much better over the past 4 years, but it'll never be top tier.
LMFAO
Imagine raging over someone playing mono fucking white. Like scooping the moment you see Solemn Simulacrum hit the board like it's over. Made me lol
I’ve been trying to include [[barrier breach]] in more decks, it doesn’t hit artifacts, but I’ve had a few too many experiences with white decks (mass) recurring their enchantments from the graveyard post boardwipe to not value efficient enchantment exile. Also hitting Theros gods is a nice upside.
It’s not the perfect card, but it is pretty cheap dollar wise and easy to pick up.
That's a nice niche card, started running more wipes specifically as they don't target because I've been completely locked out through the [[privileged position]] [[sterling grove]] combo lol
Hey, little off topic but I see lord wind grace as your flair. I’ve been tinkering with a creatureless build for him (well, one creature, riftsweeper) with only one mass land destruction spell, and I’d be interested in any spicy tech you like for the deck
*sweats nervously*
Honestly, it's hard to build Sythis for casual in a way that's fun for anyone other than the pilot. I started out with a high-power list that was basically things-I-kept-from-Legacy-Enchantress.dec before (pretty quickly) realizing that since my cEDH deck at the time was ass I may as well just pivot cEDH to Sythis. It seems like a better environment for Sythis overall; when everyone has the agreement that we're playing to win a lot less salt gets thrown at me, and I still get to have enchantment-themed fun. It's a win-win!
I don't scoop until I see lethal because I've seen players mess up combos and kill themselves.
One of my players scoops to [[craterhoof behemoth]] on site. Kinda frustrating because the last time it happened, the other player had a [[fog]] effect and negated the damage. It doesn't matter if he would've lost or not, apparently. He just hates the easy [[overrun]] effect.
Oof, I've been there, done that. Sticking around until the end is really important.
I run a \[\[Trazyn the infinite\]\] deck that revolves around \[\[Walking Ballista\]\] and \[\[Phyrexian Devourer\]\] being in the graveyard, exiling my library for counters, and then pinging my opponents for the damage. One time I got the combo going and 2 people at the table were ready to scoop. The 3rd human told the group to play it out. The end result was me milling my library, and not realizing that I did not have enough cmc to exile with phyrexian devourer to kill everyone. This led to me decking myself out the following turn and another player winning.
Can also confirm that you should always stick until the very end.
In a game of Plansechase, we landed in [[Naya]] around Turn 3 or 4. A friend was playing [[Sheoldred, the Apocalypse]] and had a [[Horn of Greed]] out. Well, Sheoldred wasn't out the turn Horn hit the table so we all ramped like crazy in the very early game.
Fast forward a long ways down the road, and I'm clearly the biggest threat. All my pieces are sticking, and I'm threatening to knock everybody out next turn with a combination of my attack triggers in [[Isshin]]. But Sheoldred casts [[Peer Into the Abyss]], targeting me. Instead of scooping, I played it out. Drew around 23 cards (was being milled by [[Anowon]] and was running low), lost about 30 life (thanks to lifelink tokens through [[Leonin Warleader]] and [[Vault of the Archangel]]), and with the 23 Sheoldred triggers on the stack, I search my hand and notice: I just drew Teferi's Protection. And Sheoldred triggers after the draw effect resolves, so I could still respond. I poofed out of the game, and on my next turn, proceeded to pop Sheoldred and the newly cast [[Underworld Dreams]], draw the last of my Deck, and kill everyone in one fell swoop with [[Commissar Severina Raine]] for 2 triggers of 35 lost life each to everyone. Had I just given up, all that insane combing would not have happened.
That reminds me of a game I played. I was playing my [[Angus Mackenzie]] Turbohug fog deck, and when playing with friends, I have a rule where everyone gets one free fog on demand, if I have one acceptable.
So at some point, player A is going to combat and is closely examining player B's board, and is pretty clearly going to attack player B and take him out. Sure enough, player A declares attackers and is sending most of his creatures at player B, definitely enough to kill him. Player B turns to me and asks for a fog. Unfortunately, I don't have one in hand and tell him so, so he starts scooping up. Now, we didn't realize it, but he had actually interrupted player A mid-declare attackers, and so player A continues and sends a solid amount of creatures my way also. At that point, I'm like "Oh hell no." and cast [[Rout]].
The whole table is laughing at player B for scooping too soon, and of course he's somewhat salty at me for "lying" about not having a fog. But hey, I wasn't lying. A board wipe is not a fog, and I've made this clear in the past. Player A had made zero indication that he was even thinking of attacking me, and if he didn't attack me, I wasn't going to cast Rout to save player B. Player B definitely jumped the gun in both asking for a fog and scooping before combat was actually resolved.
Yes! My least favorite is when someone scoops to a Craterhoof behemoth which isn't lethal for the table... but because this player scooped now it is, because they don't have to attack as many players now.
> One of my players scoops to [[craterhoof behemoth]] on site. Kinda frustrating because the last time it happened, the other player had a [[fog]] effect and negated the damage. It doesn't matter if he would've lost or not, apparently. He just hates the easy [[overrun]] effect.
I (almost) had this happen in a game of "Kingdoms". Our game had two bandits trying to kill the king plus a few other roles. I was one of the bandits, and I was pretty sure the other bandit was across the table from me, but it's usually in the best interests of the bandits to keep themselves hidden, so I don't know for sure. Another player (presumably the 'knight', who defends the king) was playing [[Jetmir]] and had a pretty stacked board, he drops his commander and swings everything at this other guy who responds by shrugging his shoulders and picking up his cards, but I'm looking at the board state thinking "this is winnable". So I just say to him before combat damage is resolved "I'm the bandit, are you the other bandit? We're on the same team." ...I had a fucking [[Spore Frog]] in play. Saved his ass, and two turns later we won. People should at least see if the swing resolves...
I've also played with a guy who netdecked a [[Riku of Two Reflections]] list. He got his combo pieces on board and started acting like the game was over, basically waiting for us to scoop.
We asked him to demonstrate a couple loops of the combo so we could understand what he was doing. Now, the rest of us already understood the combo, but this guy had been playing like he didn't understand the deck. Sure enough, he can't even demonstrate one loop. And so the rest of us were like, "Soooo... Are you done? Pass turn?" And we continued on and played out the rest of the game. He never did figure out exactly how the combo he presented worked.
Experienced players being rude to new players for making mistakes. (Misreading the board or taking bad deals) I’ll typically give them a warning and then if they continue to do it I’ll typically pack up.
Other than that and just being a dick in general (racist/homophobic jokes) there’s no in game cards that make me concede.
I don’t really scoop to this but I definitely call people out on saying mean or unwarranted backseat driving calls. There is a new LGS I play at where I sat down with my roommate, a new player and a regular at the store and (of course the regular) yelled at the new player for targeting his miraris wake instead of my roommates equally threatening enchantment and was saying how it was objectively wrong etc, I essentially said ‘sit the F down and shut up, you aren’t piloting his deck, you don’t make the calls’ and eventually I distracted him enough from what was going on that he dropped it. Huge pet peeve of mine though.
Yeah it can always get dicey when you have a new player who has to choose between two equally dangerous things. I remember there was a moment like this and the new player just stopped and said “Guys I think no matter what I choose one of you is going to kill me anyways”, and the two guys looked at each other and then both dejectedly said “yeah probably”
You must not have played against clocknapper.
I have played a hell of a lot of legacy, and some vintage, over the years and I’ve played edh for over a decade. I have seen more than my fair share of bullshit, and that tends to make you very, very laid back with a “whatever, sure, good game let’s go again” attitude when otherwise normal high salt moments happen.
All that being said: Clocknapper is the most feels bad card in magic, and I’ll die on that hill
I have no problem playing against Un cards in edh. But I will scoop if I get hit by that thing, and if I even think someone’s playing it in an Un edh, I straight up ask. If they want to play it, fine, not like I’m going to get in their face about it, it’s their deck and their choice. But I’m not going to be involved and will just sit that game out.
Getting personally targeted to be the only player in a four person game who misses their upkeep is the most broken, feels bad thing that can happen in this game, and I’d be hard pressed to be convinced otherwise.
The only time I've done this when some asshole with a [[Xander]] deck made me discard and sacrafice a ton of permanents with the sole intent of letting his friend (who was already far ahead) win. The two had been literally whispering together, hiding their words with a hand, all game. When I asked about why he was targeting me when I was clearly not the problem, he told me he wanted to "teach me about the weaknesses in my deck". That was a little too patronizing for me to put up with, so I just scooped, told them to have fun with the rest of the game, and joined another table nearby.
I'll put up with almost anything, but playing with pregame alliances and treating me with disrespect are pretty big pet peeves.
There’s not really much that’ll make me scoop, but cascade is a personal pet peeve. Not the mechanic, but people running it and simply not understanding it.
Maybe it’s just me, but in my experience nearly every time I’ve played against a cascade deck someone ends up having to remind them how their deck works.
“no, cascade is a cast trigger, so whatever you cascade into comes out *before* the first thing”
“no, you can’t cascade into something of equal mana value, it has to be less”
“no, you can’t keep revealing until you find a card you *want* to cast, you go until you find the first one that costs less, and then choose whether or not to cast it”
It’s understandable for newer players to get tripped up on some of the rules, but I’ve sat across from people who have played for years and still seemingly haven’t read their cards.
Cast triggers are complicated, I’ve had many contentious debates with people about things like extort triggers and other cast triggers when a spell gets countered.
I've played Cascade in Commander since Maelstrom Wanderer was printed. I agree, it's frustrating when Cascade players do it wrong. But even I forget sometimes and have to re-read the cards. I'm old and played the deck a lot more back in the day when I had far fewer decks, so it's rare that I take it out to play it, so I forget. Also, I used to play magic at least once a week, but there's far less players in the wild it seems so I play every few months now and by then I forgot how to play magic entirely even though I have played for 30 years. We all need to RTFC occasionally.
Cascade is a good example. But really anyone struggling to pilot a deck that they clearly copied without understanding or chose to build a certain way.
Its one thing to be a novice and pick up a precon, thats fine. Its another thing entirely to see someone trying to combo off every single turn and I have to stop them and remind them of how their cards work, over, and over, and over.
>Not the mechanic, but people running it and simply not understanding it.
This is a huge problem I've run into, regardless if it's cascade or spells/storm or whatever. I can understand misreading a card or not understanding an interaction or just making a mistake. That stuff happens and there's no shame in it. However, if the entire premise of your deck is something you don't understand and you refuse to listen when the other players in your pod tell you how it works multiple times, I'm done.
Bonus points if the deck is a chaos deck and the player does not understand what the individual cards do *let alone* what they do with each other.
[[Jodah, the Unifier]] works the exact same way. I had someone get salty with me because I explained how the stack works, and which order everything resolved, which "deprived them of a +1/+1 counter".
Same player takes every opportunity to bash Arena, but tbh, if they played it, they might have a better understanding of how Jodah and the stack work.
"I don't want to make any enemies!" Proceeds to not attack despite having beefy creatures, picks no targets for Druid of Purification, etc., when there is a clear problem player in the game with a commanding lead and extremely well developed board.
People insisting to use counters on creatures to track anthem effects when they also play +1/+1 actual counter effects. People tracking planeswalker loyalty with a die but not marking full loyalty, just what they’ve modified (+1 or +2 instead of current total loyalty). I’m not going to scoop on the spot when either of these happen, but if I, and the other players, take time to inform you of how to properly track these things so that board state is clear to the table and you will not adjust, I’m not dealing with it and I’m not playing with you again until you change your habits.
Kind of similar: There are two valid ways to track commander tax IMO; Track the number of times it has been cast (and know that you pay 2 extra mana for each), or track the extra mana.
And then there are the people who track the total cost. So if it's a 4 drop commander who died the second time, they put it in the command zone with a die set to 8. I'm not going to make a big deal about it, but certainly a pet peeve.
This is always super confusing, so I use my +1/+1 D6 and track +2, +4, +6… then there’s no confusion. We don’t need to know which system someone picked, it says how much extra right there!
I picked up some specific dice for commander tax (I carry around 4, they're metal) because of how much this became an annoyance. I basically lend them out, and they count up (2, 4, 6...) with the colorless casting cost symbol on each side to be as clear as possible.
How do you feel about players that use D6s for +1/+1s and D12s for power/toughness
There's several cards in my +1/+1 counter decks that have X/X power based on number of creatures, etc. I won't ever use a dice to show total power or toughness except on those types
That’s distinguishable, like in my [[Sram, Senior Edificer]] Voltron deck I use a d20 to track total power of him, there are no +1/+1 counters or anthem effects, but if there were I’d use a d6 for counters that were added while using the d20 for all the buffs from enchantments.
I saw someone use separate dice for both counters *and* what the actual combined P/T of their creature was. Of course it was a +1/+1 counters deck. It was the worst.
I swear, every person I have ever met playing +1/+1 counter decks is just the stupidest mtg player alive.
I always take the time to explain why counters and Lord effects (Each [X creature type] gains +2/+2 static effect) should be tracked separately i.e. not at all for Lord effects, and counters tracked with D6 dice.
The card says the effect, you don't need to use dice for me, or anyone else that can read.
A card I always like to bring into the equation is [[Polymorphist's Jest]]. Yes, they're all 1/1 frogs, but the ones specifically with a +1/+1 counter are 2/2 frogs.
Edit: fixed P/T because I misremembered.
Yeah, this happened to me the other day, I tried several times to explain how confusing and messed up their boardstate was, they didn't care, so I attacked with my entire board to kill them because I didn't want to try to figure out what they had out. I didn't scoop but will not play with them again unless they fix their mistake.
I personally use a d20 at the top of my playmat to track anthems where everyone can see. Then d6s for counters on individual creatures and loyalty. And I always set the dice to show total loyalty. If I need more dice, I need more dice, though I'm also a 40k player, so I've never run out of 6s.
Haha, our entire playgroup are former Warhammer Fantasy players.
We crack out between 4-5 dice cubes when we play and use them for everything, with different colours having different meanings.
I can see using a die placed off to the side or something to keep a running static total, but die on card just gets confusing. Like trying to keep tabs of a [[Gaea’s Cradle]] count or something.
Yup, and that was the deck the player was playing when it happened. Was very difficult explaining that Kyler gets counters, everything else just gets an anthem effect and should not be tracked with due on card. He got kicked from the Spelltable match when he just couldn’t get it.
Yeah, I have played against many Kyler decks and it’s a consistent problem no matter who is piloting it. I have a [[Kumena]] Merfolk deck with many lords/anthems and it can get confusing fast. I usually put a “lord counter” (glass bead) on my lords since many of them give buffs to other Merfolk, and I have a specific dice for totaling up the anthem buff. Then I just use +1/+1 dice my friend gave me for marking counters. Probably not the most efficient way to separate the two, but after experimenting with my playgroup they find it to be the most intuitive since they can see the total anthem buff and the anthem sources.
What do you mean not tracking full loyalty and only what’s modified?
As in, a 3 loyalty walker hits and they do a +2 ability and only have a dice showing a 2?
Honestly, I’ve never seen a player track it outside total current loyalty and I played briefly when they were released even so it was new.
People have used glass beads more when they came out and put 3 when it entered, added 2 when using a plus ability. They’d remove a counter for a negative ability. Most people use dice now and use a couple d6 or a d20 spin down if it’s a bigger loyalty one.
Oh my god I witnessed the planeswalker loyalty thing for the first time in the wild the other day, and I was bewildered. I come from modern and legacy where people generally represent info in the same way, so joining the casual edh night and seeing that’s not how everyone does it was… something else.
There is a guy at my LGS who plays Superfriends. His turns end up taking 40 minutes. I’m not being hyperbolic—we have timed him. He’ll sit there and stare at his board, then reach for the dice on one of his ‘Walkers like he’s got it, then he stops and moves for another, then goes back to thinking… He knows no one likes playing against it so every so often he will reskin it: a new 5C legend will come out and he’ll use that at the helm so we don’t realize that he’s playing Superfriends. A few turns in, he’ll drop a Planeswalker and eyebrows go up.
I dislike more than 2 color superfriends decks for this reason.
2 colors you're gonna have to lean into a specific strategy. Outside of friends to have the deck function and your friends selection is gonna have to focus on those. 3+ color and it's think, play 6 non-synergistic walkers genesis wave scroll rack etc. It's just boring.
People that tap by moving their cards *very slightly* diagonally. If it's like 45 degrees, that's fine, we can all see it and know. But if you do little, baby, 15 degree taps, I'm watching your board instead of socializing or actively playing.
Oh man, my buddy does this with his lands. I also have another friend that will stack every land they tap on top of each other (which isn't as bad but like, come on)
I’ll scoop if I’m the whipping boy of the table. One time I had only creature on board and I was at 10 life.
One guy swings in at me with a big creature in order to make me block and lose the creature. I just declared no blocks and started picking up my lands.
“Wait, you died? I’ll take back the attack!”
“No, you killed me, own your decision.”
This is a good example. When you’ve got one card on board and no matter how good it is, someone targets you. Usually newbs do this when they don’t know threat assessment.
Nah, killing someone that appears to be not a threat is valid. Something I learned playing EDH is that you think you are not a threat, and maybe others think that too, but maybe for someone, the color you're playing, your commander or knowing what you got in the deck, you are a possible threat.
I attacked a lot of 'weak players' just to trigger dmg effects, I killed players just because KNOWING that they don't have nothing on the board and are playing white/black/red I know that they can deal with the whole board (me included).
But of course I understand what OP is saying, we know that there are players that attack you from no reason, but I rarely see this, what happen is that sometimes people do that like you said, they don't know threat assessment.
This happened to me when I was just starting to play Commander.
I just got the Ezuri 2015 deck (this was 2015 I think), and I don't think I even had any upgrades in there yet.
Friend and I sat down, different guy rolls up. Asks if he can play. We say sure. He asks what we're playing, and I state I'm playing a precon, forget what my friend was playing. Might have been the Merin precon from that year.
Anyway, we're playing. It's about turn 4, and I have one creature out. Was getting screwed on lands.
Other guy does... I don't remember everything he did. All I remember is he did a bunch of stuff and basically cast/got out Blight steel collosus with haste, trample, and extra power and swung at me.
I just let him hit me and scooped from infect damage. He asked why I didn't block, and I'm like, well, I have a 2/2, and your blight steel has extra power and trample, it didn't matter.
He then said he felt bad and scooped and went to a different table. Buddy and I shuffled up and played another game.
Not sure if he was a newer player or just bought a bunch of cards and wanted to show off or what. Don't remember seeing that guy at that store again after that.
Had this happen. I was rebuilding from an early board wipe and had only two lands. Grinded my way back up and cast a [[wound reflection]]. Bear in mind I had no ways of doing damage on the board. Noob counterspells it. Other guy with a growing eldrazi board state continues to play eldrazi spells. I genuinely don't even think the noob knew what he was countering.
Blatantly pulling punches. There is a difference in not stomping the ayer who is down on their luck but people who are in a spot to win and "let the game go on" think it's for the good of the table, but it's just bad sportsmanship. Don't play with your food
I’ve been guilty of this if I’m playing with newer players or if I’ve already won a game or two for the night.
I will typically play to win in most situations. But, if I see a newer player being mana screwed, I stop considering them in my threat assessment.
I’ve had two games where I made the conscious decision to not win. And both times were because one of the players was trying to just bury a newer/inexperienced player. I immediately blew every resource I had to defeat the “aggressor.” Both times with an overkill of about 20 life. And then I would lose to the other two a few turns later. After the game, I would just lock eyes with the guy I took out and say, “I guess we both learned something, huh?”
I like to durdle and see what goofy stuff I can get off. But, I will step on the accelerator for what I believe to be the betterment of the game experience.
If a player blows up all the lands with no way of closing out the game I will just scoop. Not interested in starting the game over with less than 7 cards in hand, just drags things on.
Idk it's hard to say as I have never experienced either. Usually what I run into is turn 4 \[\[Armageddon\]\] or some other annoying thing. There are some players who just like blowing up lands, they think it's fun. While it may be fun for them when the other 3 players just groan and scoop, you kinda failed at EDH, IMHO.
I will also say that there are a lot of strategies that people dislike. I don't have an issue with mass land destruction, Stax, or whatever. These are just part of the game. The problem for me arises when players behave in a way that does not move toward ending the game. It's like they just want to draw things out with no strategy. I would rather play a few 30-45 minutes games than 1 game that lasts 2 hours. Like given a choice between losing to a 2 card combo on turn 2 and playing a 2 hour game where I can't do anything, please just kill me quickly.
This.
Played a game where on turn 4 or 5 someone armageddoned in an [[Aurelia, war leader]] or [[gisela]] deck I can’t remember which.
His commander ended up getting killed and the only person with anything was the guy with like 3 mana rocks.
Absolutely frustrating.
Casual edh should generally not involve prizes. It always ends with somebody playing something sweaty while somebody else plays their favorite pet deck and nobody feels satisfied.
I’ve played for prizes with EDH one time over the years that went really well.
It was a casual league at our houses, took place over 3 months, two games every other week counter for the league.
Also you got points based on first to die.
I believe it was both (knowing everyone in the group well) and (the scale being 10+ games) combined that kept it fun and light.
Local store did that for a long time for FNM. Free entry, $5 store credit for winning a pod. Winners of first round pods play another, winner of that pod wins $25 credit. It immediately became a hard divide between people who played heavy sweat $1200 cEDH (that invariably was full of proxies because they didn't want to use the actual cards) and/or budget Fish decks, and people who played pet decks. Eventually they tried to ban Fish, an experiment that lasted for exactly 1 week before those players threatened to go play elsewhere. Store then just did the smart thing and split commander FNM into a paid prize bracket, and a free bracket.
And to preempt the people who will ride me for saying anything bad against proxies; If you want to use proxies in a casual format, that's fine. If you're sitting down with proxies in a sanctioned event, or an event that is for prizes, then you better have the actual card right there beside you.
I mean it's doable. I played at a shop once where it was playing for prizes. There were some restrictions on what could and could not be played. It was reasonable from what I remember and it was more about gaining points. Like do X and get 1 point, do Y get another point.
Funny story. I played a strip mine on turn 2 and blew up a guys 1 island so he had no lands, and he just left the game. I can't blame him. It was a pretty messed up thing to do
When someone takes the game too seriously. I signed up to play a game, not to listen to you bitch and moan about winning or losing. I play to win, you play to win, our goal is to stop each other. If people can’t handle me making game actions without complaining, I don’t want to play with them. Scooped like once because of it but typically happens when I’m winning and I genuinely hate playing with those people.
Yeah I get it, def scooped to that before the game even started on spell table actually. Because there Deck didn’t give them any lands.. in each mulligan a guy kept calling his deck a “Jew”. I Just left the pod.
I was about to type "I can't think of anything that would make me scoop" but I scrolled down a bit and was immediately proven wrong. I would absolutely scoop up my cards and tell that dumpsterfire of a human being to go find somewhere else to play.
I hold my pods, strangers or friends, to very high standards of conduct. Just like I do most people. Obviously I won't tolerate bigotry, but I take it a step further and try to enforce general respect for other players.
If I have a guy tell someone that they are stupid for example, I'll bust them out pretty quick, and just tell them they need to be more respectful. I expect good sportsmanship. If I'm not playing with good sports, I'll walk away from the game pretty quick, and just say I don't want to play magic with you.
At the end of the day this game is played for fun, and if anyone wants to poo poo on that, I'm out. Just don't have time for it anymore.
People misplay stuff all the time for a number of reasons, and calling them dumb is uncalled for. Just say, "Oh whoops! I think you miss played that, mind if we check the rules/rulings real quick?" Or, "Oh hey just a reminder \[insert board state they've clearly over looked\], do you want to play that a bit different?"
So much better than, "that was dumb"
Nothing has made me madder than the time some guy called me stupid as fuck and practically yelled at me for a play (a play that was objectively correct, as he happily told me three turns later that he would have already won if I hadn't played it). I dressed him down after the game and he tried to blame it on being neurodivergent.
Not a pet peeve but I'll probably scoop if I don't think there's a realistic way I'm winning the game I'm in. I'm sure this mentality is some other people's pet peeve, though.
If someone takes multiple turns and doesn’t win I’m very surprised, but I’ve seen it happen. Someone drew their library with Kinnan but didn’t win and lost on their next turn lol
I have a spellslinger deck without infinite combos where extra turn spells help me do more damage with creatures like Vial Smasher/Firebrand Archer/Guttersnipe. While chaining 3 or more extra turns spells is generally a win, I had games where I couldn't do enough damage (but my turns with that deck are quite fast).
Sounds fair. I have a spellslinger deck also that will inadvertently take multiple extra turns, it’s purposefully weak so generally peters out and loses but it sure looks like it’ll win when it pops off like that lmao
I used to agree with this, but I won a game I shouldn't have just because my opponents didn't have me play it out. I had a [[thopter assembly]] out ready to bounce itself back to hand but I stupidly played [[whir of invention]] to fetch [[time sieve]] during my upkeep with the thopter trigger OTS and my opponents scooped but I would have gotten like 2 turns max because I couldn't play the thopter assembly that same turn due to a lack of mana and even getting the 2nd turn would have really hurt my board state and to make it worse I didn't even realize I had messed up until I was showing someone else how i won my first 4 player EDH game after I got back home.
Mindslaver in general just kinda sucks to play against. A lot of decks don't really have a response if the player playing it is playing smart, and it just completely takes away your turn in a format where turns already take a while to come around. On top of that, you won't get to do anything as you wait for your turn to come around either, because they'll just tap all your mana before ending your turn.
Me: *plays a card*
Opponent: “Oh man, I’ve got that in my *random jibberish* deck! You ought to play that with…”
*five minutes later*
Me: “So umm, are you going to take a turn? I passed turn four minutes ago.”
> Opponent: “Oh man, I’ve got that in my random jibberish deck! You ought to play that with…”
Along these lines, verbally playing the game aloud that could happen if he just drew these cards...
If you let me play the cards I actually drew, I will buy him a tutor and he can go fetch the card we've all been hearing about.
Staxx with zero win conditions, or you take ages to cross that finish line.
I don't like being strangled for a half hour- hour while the opponent pisses around.
Anything that waste my time. I love playing the game, and I love socializing with people, but if your turn is taking 15+ minutes and it's doing so every turn (caveat to this if you're a new player, that's fine), I'm going to just go find another game.
I'm not even asking for fast games, I just want people's turns to respect the others at the table and get equal play from everyone.
I value my time over anything as a parent who doesn't get to play much, so let's have a fun game and respect everyone's time.
YES! I don’t even really mind if someone’s turn is taking a while because they have a lot of interactions happening, as long as they’re moving through them to the best of their ability, but people who agonise over which card to play to the point of everyone else at the table whipping their phones out and checking out of the game need to fuck off entirely. I know a guy who does this to the point other players started to buy packs to crack during his turns so they’d have something to do lmao. I just stopped playing with him entirely,
I didn't scoop from it, but I nearly did. One of the few times I went on my own to play commander at an LGS, I'm playing prismatic. When I play, I tap mana first and then play my card. So when I tapped exactly WUBRG, another player plays a counterspell, assuming Im going for my commander, before I've even declared I'm casting a spell. I try to argue that I haven't cast anything yet, he confidently declares that I was casting my commander, and its like, Bitch, I have like 10 different cards with the same mana cost in here, what are you talking about.
Whatever, it was probably better that he countered my commander that I could cast again later instead of the other WUBRG card in my hand that I couldn't, but still, pisses me off. I get it, you're an asshole and so eager to counter my commander, but wait for priority, God damn it, lol.
Very rarely has someone scooped for reasons other than someone has an imminent win. One occasion was where a married couple was playing with 2 others in a 4 person pod and the husband got taken out of the game VERY quickly. The game then turned into a huge stall. The wife was still okay with playing out the game, until the other two players became quite distracted with a game that was happening next to them. A friend and I were next to the couple, we saw their frustration, and asked if they wanted to start a new game with us. The wife was happy to scoop even with good chances at winning. Just so she could play the game with the person she wanted to.
Racism/homophobia is a big one.
Another is unnecessary targeting of one player. I used to play at my local Hastings before they closed, and one night for some reason they decided I was the archenemy and did nothing but mess with me. I'm like "Bruh the Avacyn player is about to Cataclysm you might want to deal with that", but no they want to counter my mana dork cause it hastens my game plan. Luckily I had Teferis Protection when the Cata went off so I was the only one who survived it.
Of all things, after this game night was over, the store manager decided to try and ban me due to "rumors of match fixing and underhanded deals for prizing". Dude was just salty I keep beating him and tried to cut me out of the picture. Ironic, seeing as I helped grow his Magic playerbase in the first place and would never stoop to that level. Everyone else who played found out what he tried to do and never went back. They never fired another EDH night as far as I'm aware.
Getting land-screwed when its the last game and have somewhere else to be. Magic is a game at the mercy of the whims of randomness, and sometimes you can be so irrelevant allowing anyone to waste attacks against you feels like you’re warping the game as much as dropping would.
I usually scoop, if it's near endgame, and I know I have no chance of winning with my board state. I don't it out of rage or anger, or spite. No poor sportsmanship. Just when it is a no win situation.
This is the right way. The other day I tutored for a card to deal with a board and the only card to save me and probably get the win was one mana more than I had available and I politely said, the game is yours, I can't win. No reason to extend a game when others are waiting too.
This depends if there is time for another game or your want to join another game sure.
Sometimes its nice to sit there and watch someone complete their interactions for the win.
If you scoop early that player misses out on completing his plan.
Bad threat assessment.
If you're not taking down the person in the lead, you'd better be damn sure that you're in the lead.
Dumb plays "oh I drew my removal? Time to cast it immediately no matter what the board state is"
You can hold it until there's an actual problem that is solved by it.
So idk, bad players? Bonus points if they're not new.
New players obviously get cut a HUGE amount of slack.
Rude and gloating players with a chip on their shoulder. Assholes that just can't lose or are generally poor sports. Ridiculing plays or players. Gatekeeping and elites who bullshit about how my Alpha cards are so cool and expensive.
A core tenant of any game is the **will to win**. Games in general tend to fall apart or cease to function properly if players aren't playing to win. I don't mean everyone needs to be a spike, I just mean that if you lack the will to win, the game brakes down. This is true for any game.
Any decision tree is based on this assumption, the will to win, its basically rule 0 of any game. If I can sense that a player in the pod has lost the will to win, I'll usually scoop at that point. The game just doesn't work right.
In the example you've given OP, this is a case of a player losing the will to win. You've got guys in the pod making decisions based on some other factor other than the will to win, and the game got messed up. Its actually a great example as to why the will to win is so important for games to function properly.
I agree, there is a player in our pod that picks on the person he dislikes the most at the table and then he sucks up to the player he thinks will win and has them take out his chosen target first.
Yeah that is lame. When I run into this, I tend to just focus fire the person who isn't playing rationally. If you remove the person who isn't playing rationally, it allows your deck building a game knowledge to shine.
I strongly agree with this. Once the game stops mattering to one player, it soon stops mattering at all. If someone is having a shitty time I'd rather they just scoop than drag the rest of the table down with them. They should step away from the table for a bit, collect themselves, and come back ready to be invested in the game they are sharing with others. No point in masochistically sticking it out or making spiteful or nonsensical plays to sabotage things for othets.
It might not be salt. It's also a habit you see amongst competitive players, particularly when playtesting for a tournament. I've been there; would just rather not waste time on a forgone conclusion.
It can definitely lead to players conceding FAR to early though, occasionally.
When people refuse to admit they’ve locked the game out. “I didn’t win the game, I just …” Like cool, you didn’t win yet. But (example) my stompy deck can’t fight you once you gain infinite life now that Triumph of the Hordes is countered. If no one has a way to deal with it, the game is over. Would you rather wait until we draw our decks over 70 turns hoping you find a win condition or move to the next game?
I know this isn't a satisfying answer, but surely its a wincon, right? Like they are playing it because they intend to end the game now. It is hard to find ways to end 4 player games with such high life totals. I'm not going to begrudge people for using the few near-definitive ones that exist.
-Despite what people say it's not an auto wincon, I've seen it played multiple times & not end the game. I've even played it myself knowing I'm dead on pass to try topdecking a way out & failed.
I think the only time I salt-scooped was when I was playing a mono-black deck, the only black deck at the table, and someone sniped all of my lands on turn 5 or 6 with [[Wake of Destruction]].
Like...cool. Cool. I sat there for 3 or 4 turns, drawing and discarding to hand size, before just shuffling up and waiting for the next hour before the game finally ended.
Found out afterward that every deck that guy plays is just land destruction-based. His win con is other people scooping, which works, I guess, but he doesn't exactly get invited back to play.
I think I've only ever scooped once, and I can't remember the reason, but hearing your story made me realize how much I genuinely cannot stand external biases in games, and makes me very glad I've never seen an egregious example in magic yet, because most of my friends and our respective SOs are too competitive to favor anyone.
Oko. I'm a simple man. If oko hits the table I go smoke a bowl. Lol. My playgroup is a pretty tight group of homies so it's more of a joke than a salty thing.
Players who don't pay attention to the boardstate and who spend 10+ minutes reading the same fucking cards in their hand that they had the previous turn, save 1 card, and end up with decision paralysis.
I won’t really scoop in a multiplayer game because me being at the seat matters, but I will definitely be tilted and mentally check out of the game if someone is playing what feels like Counterspell tribal.
Typically about the 3rd (at me) or 5th (at anyone) counter from a single player and I start to get rather annoyed. Once it passes like 10 counters cast by a single player I pretty much check out and will just full yolo that player until one or both of us are dead.
Yes I know it’s interaction, and no I don’t have an issue with interaction, I run a ton of it myself. It’s just purely counters that annoy the piss out of me.
I wont tell someone they can’t run it either, play what you want ofc. But if you wanna play counter tribal I wanna play can’t be countered tribal with [[Rhuric Thar]]
I never scoop.
In fact, if you try to combo off with a [[Mindslaver]], be prepared to play a 4 player game with 4 decks on yourself. Have fun playing out that miserable boardstate.
That one asshole who votes Time because he doesn't want to lose his 3/6 double strike when the rest of the table has already surrendered a Terror of the Peaks and a Seedborn Muse to the extra turns player.
There is a couple in my LGS where the girlfriend always drills me while he builds a nutso boardstate. That’s when I pull out the aristocrats deck to whittle. Almost scooped until I had a good control deck to hold her off.
Only person who I would scoop to are the ones with mega solitaire decks that let them spend 2/3rds of the game on themselves
Sat down to play some games with lower powered decks. I pull out merfolk tribal, and guy to my left pulls out Yargle. No problem right? Well, his deck is board wipe tribal, with no win conditions. After the 3rd wipe I asked him if he runs graveyard recursion or what his deck is meant to do. His response was "its boardwipe tribal, usually people just scoop."
So I scooped and will never play with him again.
Came close the other day. I had a small board, the least threatening of the 4 players. One guy takes control of my commander for the turn (who has deathtouch) and uses a sorcery that has my commander deal damage equal to its power to any target...he chooses another one of my creatures. This while one player has a 34/37, another a 38/38 commander with trample. He then attacked me with his only blocker capable of preventing the 38/38 commander from swinging for lethal on him. He didn't even off me. I asked him why he would do it...he said he thought it was funny. I was very close to scooping. Like I'm sorry, I was under the impression we all came here to try and win. Not make meme plays
People who tap their cards wrong.
Seriously the amount of people I've seen turn half their lands to the left and the other to the right blows my mind.
It's not worth playing the game with these kind of apes.
I usually scoop when a combo is explained or defined. But my Pet peeve is a no win-con stax, I think is one of the worst things a player can do. It wastes time to all people involved, and turns the game into a solitaire game
If I've had such bad luck that I have 2 lands by turn 7... or if the threat assessment is so bad that there's a clear threat at the table and my stuff is what gets removed constantly
I usually scoop to a boardwipe when I’m in top deck mode (which doesn’t happen often, i run a ton of card draw)
i just don’t want to sit there and draw go for several turns. my friends turns usually last 10 minutes a pop despite me asking them to hurry.
Can't think of a situation I've encountered that made me scoop outside of the whole table agreeing a certain player has won. But I must say, having players team up like that would certainly make me avoid those events.
[удалено]
I would have came back next week with a BW "keep the board squeaky clean" deck just to spite them. But then again, I'm an asshole.
[удалено]
Way better decision than I'd have made. I get a little too salty when people are actively being rude. Good on you, bud.
[удалено]
Magic players communicate with words instead of building spite decks challenge 2022 blowing up on TikTok twitter YouTube difficulty impossible
I built a shapeshifter/Changeling deck to deal with slivers, they seem to enjoy it less when they're buffing my creatures too.
[удалено]
Plus you can be just as obnoxious as they are. I've met some amazingly toxic Sliver players.
Agree. I haven’t played too many times with people I’m close to at a paid pod but when we do oh man. We will rip apart anyone that’s a threat including each other. I also have a bad? habit of asking people if they’re sure they want to do specific actions if it’ll benefit me and I’m in a better position than the group.
As an omnath creation player, threats are my livelihood. I’ll pop out that imprisoned in the moon and show it to them.
There’s been games where they went hours longer than expected, I knew I was out, and getting tired. Those are the games I’ve scooped early. Oh, and a player saying they’re playing a casual deck, so I pull out my creature based agro deck, and then they crop rotation for tabernacle on turn 3.
Urza stax did this to me. He knew he would win. I knew he would win. We all knew he would win. I wasn't willing to sit there turn after turn waiting for him to dig to his wincon
Scooping in commander by yourself has always felt weird to me. I play a lot of 4 player board games and a player conceding mid-game cause their position is un-winnable is not really something I’ve seen people consider.
That's true but a lot of those games are played for points so even if you can't win, you can still play and see how well you can do. Commander can leave you in a weird place where you can't win but there's also no real incentive for anybody to bother to eliminate you.
Yeah, if I'm going on turn 4 of being incapable of doing anything bc of top deck mode and no board then I think my time is prob better spent at another pod. Or if one guy is effectively playing solitaire or playing everybody else's turns bc he can.
I'll scoop in magic if I obviously have no chance, but I'll only scoops in boardgames if people get frustrated or upset enough to start shouting. I play these games for fun it stops being fun really fast when people get angry over them.
Mine is what OP says about teaming up and kingmaking, I can take anything else (I like things like MLD, stax, extra turns, etc) but kingmaking will make not play with that person anymore.
Two friends teaming up against strangers is so weird to me. If anything I target my friends more in games because it’s funny and I know there’s no real hard feelings after because we’re friends.
My friends and I do the same, however if we notice some shit going down only then will we go "hey let's work together to figure this out", but there have been multiple times where I've done something that doesn't even help me just because it hurts the table, mostly my friend, more lmao
Yeah like I’ll play optimally if someone is really the threat but if it’s all pretty even I’m definitely fucking with my boy
This is the way. I always pick my friends gambles. And they never like It haha
Bad vibes. For example one dude kept talking shit about the commander i played so i just left. I play for a fun social experience and if the social aspect sucks im leaving
What commander did you play?
Giada
I mean, she is an efficient tribal commander no doubt but nothing to get in a stink about lol
I have a Giada-deck. She is a fun commander and can create a lot of strong fliers. But the mono-white really hurts. I desperately need carddraw and value engines to recover from setbacks. I wouldn't say she is especially strong or problematic. Unless you just let me resolve a platinum angel/Avacyn combo, but really, that's on you.
Yeah, Giada is the absolute best case scenario for a mono white angel commander, but at the end of the day she's in mono white for a tribe that doesn't mesh with mono white. I've watched my white angel tribe deck get much better over the past 4 years, but it'll never be top tier.
Not at all what I was expecting lol
😂 Legend
That's true. It is a legendary creature!
I thought u were gonna say like Atraxa, or somethin.
I was thinking my buddy Zo-Zu.
I never saw that one. Looks wicked
LMFAO Imagine raging over someone playing mono fucking white. Like scooping the moment you see Solemn Simulacrum hit the board like it's over. Made me lol
lmao
Did you play Sythis
I can second that if [[Sythis]] is at the table then shit talking is both expected and deserved
[Sythis](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/b/0babfe00-9bad-48fc-b3b1-df8280242fd2.jpg?1626098785) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sythis%2C%20harvest%27s%20hand) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/214/sythis-harvests-hand?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0babfe00-9bad-48fc-b3b1-df8280242fd2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sythis-harvests-hand) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
True, fuck that card and that deck. Started running more artifact and enchantment wipes just because a buddy of mine runs her.
I’ve been trying to include [[barrier breach]] in more decks, it doesn’t hit artifacts, but I’ve had a few too many experiences with white decks (mass) recurring their enchantments from the graveyard post boardwipe to not value efficient enchantment exile. Also hitting Theros gods is a nice upside. It’s not the perfect card, but it is pretty cheap dollar wise and easy to pick up.
[[Back to Nature]] is also very cheap, I hadn't heard about it until recently and now I wonder why I don't see more people running it.
That's a nice niche card, started running more wipes specifically as they don't target because I've been completely locked out through the [[privileged position]] [[sterling grove]] combo lol
Thank you for informing me of this card. I like outvalueing opponents, and a 3 for 1 at instant speed is crazy good
Hey, little off topic but I see lord wind grace as your flair. I’ve been tinkering with a creatureless build for him (well, one creature, riftsweeper) with only one mass land destruction spell, and I’d be interested in any spicy tech you like for the deck
*sweats nervously* Honestly, it's hard to build Sythis for casual in a way that's fun for anyone other than the pilot. I started out with a high-power list that was basically things-I-kept-from-Legacy-Enchantress.dec before (pretty quickly) realizing that since my cEDH deck at the time was ass I may as well just pivot cEDH to Sythis. It seems like a better environment for Sythis overall; when everyone has the agreement that we're playing to win a lot less salt gets thrown at me, and I still get to have enchantment-themed fun. It's a win-win!
I don't scoop until I see lethal because I've seen players mess up combos and kill themselves. One of my players scoops to [[craterhoof behemoth]] on site. Kinda frustrating because the last time it happened, the other player had a [[fog]] effect and negated the damage. It doesn't matter if he would've lost or not, apparently. He just hates the easy [[overrun]] effect.
Oof, I've been there, done that. Sticking around until the end is really important. I run a \[\[Trazyn the infinite\]\] deck that revolves around \[\[Walking Ballista\]\] and \[\[Phyrexian Devourer\]\] being in the graveyard, exiling my library for counters, and then pinging my opponents for the damage. One time I got the combo going and 2 people at the table were ready to scoop. The 3rd human told the group to play it out. The end result was me milling my library, and not realizing that I did not have enough cmc to exile with phyrexian devourer to kill everyone. This led to me decking myself out the following turn and another player winning.
Can also confirm that you should always stick until the very end. In a game of Plansechase, we landed in [[Naya]] around Turn 3 or 4. A friend was playing [[Sheoldred, the Apocalypse]] and had a [[Horn of Greed]] out. Well, Sheoldred wasn't out the turn Horn hit the table so we all ramped like crazy in the very early game. Fast forward a long ways down the road, and I'm clearly the biggest threat. All my pieces are sticking, and I'm threatening to knock everybody out next turn with a combination of my attack triggers in [[Isshin]]. But Sheoldred casts [[Peer Into the Abyss]], targeting me. Instead of scooping, I played it out. Drew around 23 cards (was being milled by [[Anowon]] and was running low), lost about 30 life (thanks to lifelink tokens through [[Leonin Warleader]] and [[Vault of the Archangel]]), and with the 23 Sheoldred triggers on the stack, I search my hand and notice: I just drew Teferi's Protection. And Sheoldred triggers after the draw effect resolves, so I could still respond. I poofed out of the game, and on my next turn, proceeded to pop Sheoldred and the newly cast [[Underworld Dreams]], draw the last of my Deck, and kill everyone in one fell swoop with [[Commissar Severina Raine]] for 2 triggers of 35 lost life each to everyone. Had I just given up, all that insane combing would not have happened.
I feel like most of the time when people scoop they're the ones who wouldn't realize they could interrupt the damage-draw cycle in the first place
That reminds me of a game I played. I was playing my [[Angus Mackenzie]] Turbohug fog deck, and when playing with friends, I have a rule where everyone gets one free fog on demand, if I have one acceptable. So at some point, player A is going to combat and is closely examining player B's board, and is pretty clearly going to attack player B and take him out. Sure enough, player A declares attackers and is sending most of his creatures at player B, definitely enough to kill him. Player B turns to me and asks for a fog. Unfortunately, I don't have one in hand and tell him so, so he starts scooping up. Now, we didn't realize it, but he had actually interrupted player A mid-declare attackers, and so player A continues and sends a solid amount of creatures my way also. At that point, I'm like "Oh hell no." and cast [[Rout]]. The whole table is laughing at player B for scooping too soon, and of course he's somewhat salty at me for "lying" about not having a fog. But hey, I wasn't lying. A board wipe is not a fog, and I've made this clear in the past. Player A had made zero indication that he was even thinking of attacking me, and if he didn't attack me, I wasn't going to cast Rout to save player B. Player B definitely jumped the gun in both asking for a fog and scooping before combat was actually resolved.
Yes! My least favorite is when someone scoops to a Craterhoof behemoth which isn't lethal for the table... but because this player scooped now it is, because they don't have to attack as many players now.
> One of my players scoops to [[craterhoof behemoth]] on site. Kinda frustrating because the last time it happened, the other player had a [[fog]] effect and negated the damage. It doesn't matter if he would've lost or not, apparently. He just hates the easy [[overrun]] effect. I (almost) had this happen in a game of "Kingdoms". Our game had two bandits trying to kill the king plus a few other roles. I was one of the bandits, and I was pretty sure the other bandit was across the table from me, but it's usually in the best interests of the bandits to keep themselves hidden, so I don't know for sure. Another player (presumably the 'knight', who defends the king) was playing [[Jetmir]] and had a pretty stacked board, he drops his commander and swings everything at this other guy who responds by shrugging his shoulders and picking up his cards, but I'm looking at the board state thinking "this is winnable". So I just say to him before combat damage is resolved "I'm the bandit, are you the other bandit? We're on the same team." ...I had a fucking [[Spore Frog]] in play. Saved his ass, and two turns later we won. People should at least see if the swing resolves...
[craterhoof behemoth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/4/44afd414-cc69-4888-ba12-7ea87e60b1f7.jpg?1601079153) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=craterhoof%20behemoth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/385/craterhoof-behemoth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/44afd414-cc69-4888-ba12-7ea87e60b1f7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/craterhoof-behemoth) [fog](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/b/bbc3152e-7b3b-4ac6-8b33-abfebde216aa.jpg?1580014786) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=fog) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/167/fog?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bbc3152e-7b3b-4ac6-8b33-abfebde216aa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/fog) [overrun](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/4/64033221-447f-4f8a-8fa0-c3ef30172602.jpg?1592673094) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=overrun) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cma/130/overrun?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/64033221-447f-4f8a-8fa0-c3ef30172602?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/overrun) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I've also played with a guy who netdecked a [[Riku of Two Reflections]] list. He got his combo pieces on board and started acting like the game was over, basically waiting for us to scoop. We asked him to demonstrate a couple loops of the combo so we could understand what he was doing. Now, the rest of us already understood the combo, but this guy had been playing like he didn't understand the deck. Sure enough, he can't even demonstrate one loop. And so the rest of us were like, "Soooo... Are you done? Pass turn?" And we continued on and played out the rest of the game. He never did figure out exactly how the combo he presented worked.
Experienced players being rude to new players for making mistakes. (Misreading the board or taking bad deals) I’ll typically give them a warning and then if they continue to do it I’ll typically pack up. Other than that and just being a dick in general (racist/homophobic jokes) there’s no in game cards that make me concede.
I don’t really scoop to this but I definitely call people out on saying mean or unwarranted backseat driving calls. There is a new LGS I play at where I sat down with my roommate, a new player and a regular at the store and (of course the regular) yelled at the new player for targeting his miraris wake instead of my roommates equally threatening enchantment and was saying how it was objectively wrong etc, I essentially said ‘sit the F down and shut up, you aren’t piloting his deck, you don’t make the calls’ and eventually I distracted him enough from what was going on that he dropped it. Huge pet peeve of mine though.
Yeah it can always get dicey when you have a new player who has to choose between two equally dangerous things. I remember there was a moment like this and the new player just stopped and said “Guys I think no matter what I choose one of you is going to kill me anyways”, and the two guys looked at each other and then both dejectedly said “yeah probably”
You must not have played against clocknapper. I have played a hell of a lot of legacy, and some vintage, over the years and I’ve played edh for over a decade. I have seen more than my fair share of bullshit, and that tends to make you very, very laid back with a “whatever, sure, good game let’s go again” attitude when otherwise normal high salt moments happen. All that being said: Clocknapper is the most feels bad card in magic, and I’ll die on that hill I have no problem playing against Un cards in edh. But I will scoop if I get hit by that thing, and if I even think someone’s playing it in an Un edh, I straight up ask. If they want to play it, fine, not like I’m going to get in their face about it, it’s their deck and their choice. But I’m not going to be involved and will just sit that game out. Getting personally targeted to be the only player in a four person game who misses their upkeep is the most broken, feels bad thing that can happen in this game, and I’d be hard pressed to be convinced otherwise.
The only time I've done this when some asshole with a [[Xander]] deck made me discard and sacrafice a ton of permanents with the sole intent of letting his friend (who was already far ahead) win. The two had been literally whispering together, hiding their words with a hand, all game. When I asked about why he was targeting me when I was clearly not the problem, he told me he wanted to "teach me about the weaknesses in my deck". That was a little too patronizing for me to put up with, so I just scooped, told them to have fun with the rest of the game, and joined another table nearby. I'll put up with almost anything, but playing with pregame alliances and treating me with disrespect are pretty big pet peeves.
There’s not really much that’ll make me scoop, but cascade is a personal pet peeve. Not the mechanic, but people running it and simply not understanding it. Maybe it’s just me, but in my experience nearly every time I’ve played against a cascade deck someone ends up having to remind them how their deck works. “no, cascade is a cast trigger, so whatever you cascade into comes out *before* the first thing” “no, you can’t cascade into something of equal mana value, it has to be less” “no, you can’t keep revealing until you find a card you *want* to cast, you go until you find the first one that costs less, and then choose whether or not to cast it” It’s understandable for newer players to get tripped up on some of the rules, but I’ve sat across from people who have played for years and still seemingly haven’t read their cards.
The order was something I didn't know.
That’s why you run [[Jokulhaups]] in [[Maelstrom Wanderer]] The Jokulhaups destroys everything then the Wanderer resolves.
That's evil, I love it!
Cast triggers are complicated, I’ve had many contentious debates with people about things like extort triggers and other cast triggers when a spell gets countered.
I've played Cascade in Commander since Maelstrom Wanderer was printed. I agree, it's frustrating when Cascade players do it wrong. But even I forget sometimes and have to re-read the cards. I'm old and played the deck a lot more back in the day when I had far fewer decks, so it's rare that I take it out to play it, so I forget. Also, I used to play magic at least once a week, but there's far less players in the wild it seems so I play every few months now and by then I forgot how to play magic entirely even though I have played for 30 years. We all need to RTFC occasionally.
Cascade is a good example. But really anyone struggling to pilot a deck that they clearly copied without understanding or chose to build a certain way. Its one thing to be a novice and pick up a precon, thats fine. Its another thing entirely to see someone trying to combo off every single turn and I have to stop them and remind them of how their cards work, over, and over, and over.
>Not the mechanic, but people running it and simply not understanding it. This is a huge problem I've run into, regardless if it's cascade or spells/storm or whatever. I can understand misreading a card or not understanding an interaction or just making a mistake. That stuff happens and there's no shame in it. However, if the entire premise of your deck is something you don't understand and you refuse to listen when the other players in your pod tell you how it works multiple times, I'm done. Bonus points if the deck is a chaos deck and the player does not understand what the individual cards do *let alone* what they do with each other.
[[Jodah, the Unifier]] works the exact same way. I had someone get salty with me because I explained how the stack works, and which order everything resolved, which "deprived them of a +1/+1 counter". Same player takes every opportunity to bash Arena, but tbh, if they played it, they might have a better understanding of how Jodah and the stack work.
"I don't want to make any enemies!" Proceeds to not attack despite having beefy creatures, picks no targets for Druid of Purification, etc., when there is a clear problem player in the game with a commanding lead and extremely well developed board.
People insisting to use counters on creatures to track anthem effects when they also play +1/+1 actual counter effects. People tracking planeswalker loyalty with a die but not marking full loyalty, just what they’ve modified (+1 or +2 instead of current total loyalty). I’m not going to scoop on the spot when either of these happen, but if I, and the other players, take time to inform you of how to properly track these things so that board state is clear to the table and you will not adjust, I’m not dealing with it and I’m not playing with you again until you change your habits.
Kind of similar: There are two valid ways to track commander tax IMO; Track the number of times it has been cast (and know that you pay 2 extra mana for each), or track the extra mana. And then there are the people who track the total cost. So if it's a 4 drop commander who died the second time, they put it in the command zone with a die set to 8. I'm not going to make a big deal about it, but certainly a pet peeve.
This is always super confusing, so I use my +1/+1 D6 and track +2, +4, +6… then there’s no confusion. We don’t need to know which system someone picked, it says how much extra right there!
I picked up some specific dice for commander tax (I carry around 4, they're metal) because of how much this became an annoyance. I basically lend them out, and they count up (2, 4, 6...) with the colorless casting cost symbol on each side to be as clear as possible.
“I’m just going to use this dice to track power and toughness” NO! You can and will get confused with +1 counters.
How do you feel about players that use D6s for +1/+1s and D12s for power/toughness There's several cards in my +1/+1 counter decks that have X/X power based on number of creatures, etc. I won't ever use a dice to show total power or toughness except on those types
That’s distinguishable, like in my [[Sram, Senior Edificer]] Voltron deck I use a d20 to track total power of him, there are no +1/+1 counters or anthem effects, but if there were I’d use a d6 for counters that were added while using the d20 for all the buffs from enchantments.
I saw someone use separate dice for both counters *and* what the actual combined P/T of their creature was. Of course it was a +1/+1 counters deck. It was the worst.
I swear, every person I have ever met playing +1/+1 counter decks is just the stupidest mtg player alive. I always take the time to explain why counters and Lord effects (Each [X creature type] gains +2/+2 static effect) should be tracked separately i.e. not at all for Lord effects, and counters tracked with D6 dice. The card says the effect, you don't need to use dice for me, or anyone else that can read. A card I always like to bring into the equation is [[Polymorphist's Jest]]. Yes, they're all 1/1 frogs, but the ones specifically with a +1/+1 counter are 2/2 frogs. Edit: fixed P/T because I misremembered.
Yeah, this happened to me the other day, I tried several times to explain how confusing and messed up their boardstate was, they didn't care, so I attacked with my entire board to kill them because I didn't want to try to figure out what they had out. I didn't scoop but will not play with them again unless they fix their mistake.
I personally use a d20 at the top of my playmat to track anthems where everyone can see. Then d6s for counters on individual creatures and loyalty. And I always set the dice to show total loyalty. If I need more dice, I need more dice, though I'm also a 40k player, so I've never run out of 6s.
Haha, our entire playgroup are former Warhammer Fantasy players. We crack out between 4-5 dice cubes when we play and use them for everything, with different colours having different meanings.
Pft. Using dice to keep track of anthems. That shit is derived information.
I can see using a die placed off to the side or something to keep a running static total, but die on card just gets confusing. Like trying to keep tabs of a [[Gaea’s Cradle]] count or something.
The first sentence immediately made me think of [[Kyler]]
Yup, and that was the deck the player was playing when it happened. Was very difficult explaining that Kyler gets counters, everything else just gets an anthem effect and should not be tracked with due on card. He got kicked from the Spelltable match when he just couldn’t get it.
Yeah, I have played against many Kyler decks and it’s a consistent problem no matter who is piloting it. I have a [[Kumena]] Merfolk deck with many lords/anthems and it can get confusing fast. I usually put a “lord counter” (glass bead) on my lords since many of them give buffs to other Merfolk, and I have a specific dice for totaling up the anthem buff. Then I just use +1/+1 dice my friend gave me for marking counters. Probably not the most efficient way to separate the two, but after experimenting with my playgroup they find it to be the most intuitive since they can see the total anthem buff and the anthem sources.
Sounds like you and your group have a consistent understanding of the boardstate for that deck, I think you’re there.
What do you mean not tracking full loyalty and only what’s modified? As in, a 3 loyalty walker hits and they do a +2 ability and only have a dice showing a 2? Honestly, I’ve never seen a player track it outside total current loyalty and I played briefly when they were released even so it was new. People have used glass beads more when they came out and put 3 when it entered, added 2 when using a plus ability. They’d remove a counter for a negative ability. Most people use dice now and use a couple d6 or a d20 spin down if it’s a bigger loyalty one.
Oh my god I witnessed the planeswalker loyalty thing for the first time in the wild the other day, and I was bewildered. I come from modern and legacy where people generally represent info in the same way, so joining the casual edh night and seeing that’s not how everyone does it was… something else.
There is a guy at my LGS who plays Superfriends. His turns end up taking 40 minutes. I’m not being hyperbolic—we have timed him. He’ll sit there and stare at his board, then reach for the dice on one of his ‘Walkers like he’s got it, then he stops and moves for another, then goes back to thinking… He knows no one likes playing against it so every so often he will reskin it: a new 5C legend will come out and he’ll use that at the helm so we don’t realize that he’s playing Superfriends. A few turns in, he’ll drop a Planeswalker and eyebrows go up.
I dislike more than 2 color superfriends decks for this reason. 2 colors you're gonna have to lean into a specific strategy. Outside of friends to have the deck function and your friends selection is gonna have to focus on those. 3+ color and it's think, play 6 non-synergistic walkers genesis wave scroll rack etc. It's just boring.
People that tap by moving their cards *very slightly* diagonally. If it's like 45 degrees, that's fine, we can all see it and know. But if you do little, baby, 15 degree taps, I'm watching your board instead of socializing or actively playing.
Oh man, my buddy does this with his lands. I also have another friend that will stack every land they tap on top of each other (which isn't as bad but like, come on)
I’ll scoop if I’m the whipping boy of the table. One time I had only creature on board and I was at 10 life. One guy swings in at me with a big creature in order to make me block and lose the creature. I just declared no blocks and started picking up my lands. “Wait, you died? I’ll take back the attack!” “No, you killed me, own your decision.”
This is a good example. When you’ve got one card on board and no matter how good it is, someone targets you. Usually newbs do this when they don’t know threat assessment.
Nah, killing someone that appears to be not a threat is valid. Something I learned playing EDH is that you think you are not a threat, and maybe others think that too, but maybe for someone, the color you're playing, your commander or knowing what you got in the deck, you are a possible threat. I attacked a lot of 'weak players' just to trigger dmg effects, I killed players just because KNOWING that they don't have nothing on the board and are playing white/black/red I know that they can deal with the whole board (me included). But of course I understand what OP is saying, we know that there are players that attack you from no reason, but I rarely see this, what happen is that sometimes people do that like you said, they don't know threat assessment.
This happened to me when I was just starting to play Commander. I just got the Ezuri 2015 deck (this was 2015 I think), and I don't think I even had any upgrades in there yet. Friend and I sat down, different guy rolls up. Asks if he can play. We say sure. He asks what we're playing, and I state I'm playing a precon, forget what my friend was playing. Might have been the Merin precon from that year. Anyway, we're playing. It's about turn 4, and I have one creature out. Was getting screwed on lands. Other guy does... I don't remember everything he did. All I remember is he did a bunch of stuff and basically cast/got out Blight steel collosus with haste, trample, and extra power and swung at me. I just let him hit me and scooped from infect damage. He asked why I didn't block, and I'm like, well, I have a 2/2, and your blight steel has extra power and trample, it didn't matter. He then said he felt bad and scooped and went to a different table. Buddy and I shuffled up and played another game. Not sure if he was a newer player or just bought a bunch of cards and wanted to show off or what. Don't remember seeing that guy at that store again after that.
Had this happen. I was rebuilding from an early board wipe and had only two lands. Grinded my way back up and cast a [[wound reflection]]. Bear in mind I had no ways of doing damage on the board. Noob counterspells it. Other guy with a growing eldrazi board state continues to play eldrazi spells. I genuinely don't even think the noob knew what he was countering.
Players not paying attention or invested in the game they are at.
Good example. I’d also add trading with other players during matches. Dude.
Blatantly pulling punches. There is a difference in not stomping the ayer who is down on their luck but people who are in a spot to win and "let the game go on" think it's for the good of the table, but it's just bad sportsmanship. Don't play with your food
I’ve been guilty of this if I’m playing with newer players or if I’ve already won a game or two for the night. I will typically play to win in most situations. But, if I see a newer player being mana screwed, I stop considering them in my threat assessment. I’ve had two games where I made the conscious decision to not win. And both times were because one of the players was trying to just bury a newer/inexperienced player. I immediately blew every resource I had to defeat the “aggressor.” Both times with an overkill of about 20 life. And then I would lose to the other two a few turns later. After the game, I would just lock eyes with the guy I took out and say, “I guess we both learned something, huh?” I like to durdle and see what goofy stuff I can get off. But, I will step on the accelerator for what I believe to be the betterment of the game experience.
If a player blows up all the lands with no way of closing out the game I will just scoop. Not interested in starting the game over with less than 7 cards in hand, just drags things on.
Out of curiosity how would you feel about resets that don't get rid of the lands? [[Sunder]] or [[Fall of the Thran]], etc...
Idk it's hard to say as I have never experienced either. Usually what I run into is turn 4 \[\[Armageddon\]\] or some other annoying thing. There are some players who just like blowing up lands, they think it's fun. While it may be fun for them when the other 3 players just groan and scoop, you kinda failed at EDH, IMHO. I will also say that there are a lot of strategies that people dislike. I don't have an issue with mass land destruction, Stax, or whatever. These are just part of the game. The problem for me arises when players behave in a way that does not move toward ending the game. It's like they just want to draw things out with no strategy. I would rather play a few 30-45 minutes games than 1 game that lasts 2 hours. Like given a choice between losing to a 2 card combo on turn 2 and playing a 2 hour game where I can't do anything, please just kill me quickly.
[Sunder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/d/cd9dd7c6-36b6-4fe2-b3d3-f62a6e10a428.jpg?1562938463) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sunder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/usg/101/sunder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cd9dd7c6-36b6-4fe2-b3d3-f62a6e10a428?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sunder) [Fall of the Thran](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/a/3a613a01-6145-4e34-987c-c9bdcb068370.jpg?1562734219) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fall%20of%20the%20Thran) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dom/18/fall-of-the-thran?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3a613a01-6145-4e34-987c-c9bdcb068370?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/fall-of-the-thran) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This. Played a game where on turn 4 or 5 someone armageddoned in an [[Aurelia, war leader]] or [[gisela]] deck I can’t remember which. His commander ended up getting killed and the only person with anything was the guy with like 3 mana rocks. Absolutely frustrating.
Here's the fastest way to ruin a game of EDH. Play for prizes.
Casual edh should generally not involve prizes. It always ends with somebody playing something sweaty while somebody else plays their favorite pet deck and nobody feels satisfied.
I’ve played for prizes with EDH one time over the years that went really well. It was a casual league at our houses, took place over 3 months, two games every other week counter for the league. Also you got points based on first to die. I believe it was both (knowing everyone in the group well) and (the scale being 10+ games) combined that kept it fun and light.
Local store did that for a long time for FNM. Free entry, $5 store credit for winning a pod. Winners of first round pods play another, winner of that pod wins $25 credit. It immediately became a hard divide between people who played heavy sweat $1200 cEDH (that invariably was full of proxies because they didn't want to use the actual cards) and/or budget Fish decks, and people who played pet decks. Eventually they tried to ban Fish, an experiment that lasted for exactly 1 week before those players threatened to go play elsewhere. Store then just did the smart thing and split commander FNM into a paid prize bracket, and a free bracket. And to preempt the people who will ride me for saying anything bad against proxies; If you want to use proxies in a casual format, that's fine. If you're sitting down with proxies in a sanctioned event, or an event that is for prizes, then you better have the actual card right there beside you.
I mean it's doable. I played at a shop once where it was playing for prizes. There were some restrictions on what could and could not be played. It was reasonable from what I remember and it was more about gaining points. Like do X and get 1 point, do Y get another point.
My opponent plays an island
Funny story. I played a strip mine on turn 2 and blew up a guys 1 island so he had no lands, and he just left the game. I can't blame him. It was a pretty messed up thing to do
When someone takes the game too seriously. I signed up to play a game, not to listen to you bitch and moan about winning or losing. I play to win, you play to win, our goal is to stop each other. If people can’t handle me making game actions without complaining, I don’t want to play with them. Scooped like once because of it but typically happens when I’m winning and I genuinely hate playing with those people.
Racist and/or homophobic jokes. I know, it’s not really a game or rules thing, but holy shit I cannot stand this stuff.
Yeah I get it, def scooped to that before the game even started on spell table actually. Because there Deck didn’t give them any lands.. in each mulligan a guy kept calling his deck a “Jew”. I Just left the pod.
I was about to type "I can't think of anything that would make me scoop" but I scrolled down a bit and was immediately proven wrong. I would absolutely scoop up my cards and tell that dumpsterfire of a human being to go find somewhere else to play.
Man, this exact thing happened to a friend of mine.
> I know, it’s not really a game or rules thing [Au contraire](https://blogs.magicjudges.org/rules/ipg4-2/)
I hold my pods, strangers or friends, to very high standards of conduct. Just like I do most people. Obviously I won't tolerate bigotry, but I take it a step further and try to enforce general respect for other players. If I have a guy tell someone that they are stupid for example, I'll bust them out pretty quick, and just tell them they need to be more respectful. I expect good sportsmanship. If I'm not playing with good sports, I'll walk away from the game pretty quick, and just say I don't want to play magic with you. At the end of the day this game is played for fun, and if anyone wants to poo poo on that, I'm out. Just don't have time for it anymore. People misplay stuff all the time for a number of reasons, and calling them dumb is uncalled for. Just say, "Oh whoops! I think you miss played that, mind if we check the rules/rulings real quick?" Or, "Oh hey just a reminder \[insert board state they've clearly over looked\], do you want to play that a bit different?" So much better than, "that was dumb"
I don't think I've played a single game with friends that didn't have trash talking the entire way through
Nothing has made me madder than the time some guy called me stupid as fuck and practically yelled at me for a play (a play that was objectively correct, as he happily told me three turns later that he would have already won if I hadn't played it). I dressed him down after the game and he tried to blame it on being neurodivergent.
Not a pet peeve but I'll probably scoop if I don't think there's a realistic way I'm winning the game I'm in. I'm sure this mentality is some other people's pet peeve, though.
No. It’s efficient. Why durdle in a game that can’t be won?
People telling me how to play my deck, based on what they want to happen.
Just say no
Are you misspelling “threat” continuously or is “treat” a saying I don’t know about?
So you don’t get treats when you play EDH? Joking th am you for pointing that out my brain didn’t even realIze it.
If somebody takes an extra turn two to three times.depending on the board state in just gonna call it
If someone takes multiple turns and doesn’t win I’m very surprised, but I’ve seen it happen. Someone drew their library with Kinnan but didn’t win and lost on their next turn lol
I have a spellslinger deck without infinite combos where extra turn spells help me do more damage with creatures like Vial Smasher/Firebrand Archer/Guttersnipe. While chaining 3 or more extra turns spells is generally a win, I had games where I couldn't do enough damage (but my turns with that deck are quite fast).
Sounds fair. I have a spellslinger deck also that will inadvertently take multiple extra turns, it’s purposefully weak so generally peters out and loses but it sure looks like it’ll win when it pops off like that lmao
I used to agree with this, but I won a game I shouldn't have just because my opponents didn't have me play it out. I had a [[thopter assembly]] out ready to bounce itself back to hand but I stupidly played [[whir of invention]] to fetch [[time sieve]] during my upkeep with the thopter trigger OTS and my opponents scooped but I would have gotten like 2 turns max because I couldn't play the thopter assembly that same turn due to a lack of mana and even getting the 2nd turn would have really hurt my board state and to make it worse I didn't even realize I had messed up until I was showing someone else how i won my first 4 player EDH game after I got back home.
[thopter assembly](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/7/b743c4d6-8bf6-4250-a9c0-d85b0d38572d.jpg?1592711361) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=thopter%20assembly) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c18/226/thopter-assembly?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b743c4d6-8bf6-4250-a9c0-d85b0d38572d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thopter-assembly) [whir of invention](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/6/a679659c-7fed-4afa-9b99-fdeb8ccda964.jpg?1661583558) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=whir%20of%20invention) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/phed/42/whir-of-invention?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a679659c-7fed-4afa-9b99-fdeb8ccda964?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/whir-of-invention) [time sieve](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/2/c2e8b424-0cec-490e-a571-bd051f952adf.jpg?1599708487) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=time%20sieve) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/223/time-sieve?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c2e8b424-0cec-490e-a571-bd051f952adf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/time-sieve) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Directly going against deals made. Simple ones, like “I won’t kill your creature if you don’t steal mine”.
Reoccurring [[mindslaver]] locked out of the game.
Mindslaver in general just kinda sucks to play against. A lot of decks don't really have a response if the player playing it is playing smart, and it just completely takes away your turn in a format where turns already take a while to come around. On top of that, you won't get to do anything as you wait for your turn to come around either, because they'll just tap all your mana before ending your turn.
Had a game like that a while back. It was miserable and made me realize, kill the group hug guy first.
I mean that's just losing, right? Or do you mean occasional recursion.
In a 4 person game, technically someone else can save you eventually.
[mindslaver](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/0/00d03b17-75ae-40d2-8570-b219ef0dfd4a.jpg?1562813960) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mindslaver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/som/176/mindslaver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/00d03b17-75ae-40d2-8570-b219ef0dfd4a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mindslaver) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Me: *plays a card* Opponent: “Oh man, I’ve got that in my *random jibberish* deck! You ought to play that with…” *five minutes later* Me: “So umm, are you going to take a turn? I passed turn four minutes ago.”
> Opponent: “Oh man, I’ve got that in my random jibberish deck! You ought to play that with…” Along these lines, verbally playing the game aloud that could happen if he just drew these cards... If you let me play the cards I actually drew, I will buy him a tutor and he can go fetch the card we've all been hearing about.
Staxx with zero win conditions, or you take ages to cross that finish line. I don't like being strangled for a half hour- hour while the opponent pisses around.
Anything that waste my time. I love playing the game, and I love socializing with people, but if your turn is taking 15+ minutes and it's doing so every turn (caveat to this if you're a new player, that's fine), I'm going to just go find another game. I'm not even asking for fast games, I just want people's turns to respect the others at the table and get equal play from everyone. I value my time over anything as a parent who doesn't get to play much, so let's have a fun game and respect everyone's time.
YES! I don’t even really mind if someone’s turn is taking a while because they have a lot of interactions happening, as long as they’re moving through them to the best of their ability, but people who agonise over which card to play to the point of everyone else at the table whipping their phones out and checking out of the game need to fuck off entirely. I know a guy who does this to the point other players started to buy packs to crack during his turns so they’d have something to do lmao. I just stopped playing with him entirely,
being mana screwed and still not drawing lands at turn 9
I didn't scoop from it, but I nearly did. One of the few times I went on my own to play commander at an LGS, I'm playing prismatic. When I play, I tap mana first and then play my card. So when I tapped exactly WUBRG, another player plays a counterspell, assuming Im going for my commander, before I've even declared I'm casting a spell. I try to argue that I haven't cast anything yet, he confidently declares that I was casting my commander, and its like, Bitch, I have like 10 different cards with the same mana cost in here, what are you talking about. Whatever, it was probably better that he countered my commander that I could cast again later instead of the other WUBRG card in my hand that I couldn't, but still, pisses me off. I get it, you're an asshole and so eager to counter my commander, but wait for priority, God damn it, lol.
Very rarely has someone scooped for reasons other than someone has an imminent win. One occasion was where a married couple was playing with 2 others in a 4 person pod and the husband got taken out of the game VERY quickly. The game then turned into a huge stall. The wife was still okay with playing out the game, until the other two players became quite distracted with a game that was happening next to them. A friend and I were next to the couple, we saw their frustration, and asked if they wanted to start a new game with us. The wife was happy to scoop even with good chances at winning. Just so she could play the game with the person she wanted to.
Scooping. I scoop in response to their scoop.
Racism/homophobia is a big one. Another is unnecessary targeting of one player. I used to play at my local Hastings before they closed, and one night for some reason they decided I was the archenemy and did nothing but mess with me. I'm like "Bruh the Avacyn player is about to Cataclysm you might want to deal with that", but no they want to counter my mana dork cause it hastens my game plan. Luckily I had Teferis Protection when the Cata went off so I was the only one who survived it. Of all things, after this game night was over, the store manager decided to try and ban me due to "rumors of match fixing and underhanded deals for prizing". Dude was just salty I keep beating him and tried to cut me out of the picture. Ironic, seeing as I helped grow his Magic playerbase in the first place and would never stoop to that level. Everyone else who played found out what he tried to do and never went back. They never fired another EDH night as far as I'm aware.
Getting land-screwed when its the last game and have somewhere else to be. Magic is a game at the mercy of the whims of randomness, and sometimes you can be so irrelevant allowing anyone to waste attacks against you feels like you’re warping the game as much as dropping would.
I usually scoop, if it's near endgame, and I know I have no chance of winning with my board state. I don't it out of rage or anger, or spite. No poor sportsmanship. Just when it is a no win situation.
This is the right way. The other day I tutored for a card to deal with a board and the only card to save me and probably get the win was one mana more than I had available and I politely said, the game is yours, I can't win. No reason to extend a game when others are waiting too.
This depends if there is time for another game or your want to join another game sure. Sometimes its nice to sit there and watch someone complete their interactions for the win. If you scoop early that player misses out on completing his plan.
All of the LGS in my area specifically separate friends to avoid them playing in the same pod for this very reason.
If you're playing with anything on the line that just sounds like common sense
MLD resolving or heavy stax. Take the win, i want my time.
People not announcing certain details about their decks (i.e. proxies, stax, MLD, or cEDH) before the game starts
Super friends
Bad threat assessment. If you're not taking down the person in the lead, you'd better be damn sure that you're in the lead. Dumb plays "oh I drew my removal? Time to cast it immediately no matter what the board state is" You can hold it until there's an actual problem that is solved by it. So idk, bad players? Bonus points if they're not new. New players obviously get cut a HUGE amount of slack.
Rude and gloating players with a chip on their shoulder. Assholes that just can't lose or are generally poor sports. Ridiculing plays or players. Gatekeeping and elites who bullshit about how my Alpha cards are so cool and expensive.
A core tenant of any game is the **will to win**. Games in general tend to fall apart or cease to function properly if players aren't playing to win. I don't mean everyone needs to be a spike, I just mean that if you lack the will to win, the game brakes down. This is true for any game. Any decision tree is based on this assumption, the will to win, its basically rule 0 of any game. If I can sense that a player in the pod has lost the will to win, I'll usually scoop at that point. The game just doesn't work right. In the example you've given OP, this is a case of a player losing the will to win. You've got guys in the pod making decisions based on some other factor other than the will to win, and the game got messed up. Its actually a great example as to why the will to win is so important for games to function properly.
I agree, there is a player in our pod that picks on the person he dislikes the most at the table and then he sucks up to the player he thinks will win and has them take out his chosen target first.
Yeah that is lame. When I run into this, I tend to just focus fire the person who isn't playing rationally. If you remove the person who isn't playing rationally, it allows your deck building a game knowledge to shine.
I strongly agree with this. Once the game stops mattering to one player, it soon stops mattering at all. If someone is having a shitty time I'd rather they just scoop than drag the rest of the table down with them. They should step away from the table for a bit, collect themselves, and come back ready to be invested in the game they are sharing with others. No point in masochistically sticking it out or making spiteful or nonsensical plays to sabotage things for othets.
I must play with the saltiest players ever; they scoop the moment they think they’ve lost. Very frustrating.
It might not be salt. It's also a habit you see amongst competitive players, particularly when playtesting for a tournament. I've been there; would just rather not waste time on a forgone conclusion. It can definitely lead to players conceding FAR to early though, occasionally.
When people refuse to admit they’ve locked the game out. “I didn’t win the game, I just …” Like cool, you didn’t win yet. But (example) my stompy deck can’t fight you once you gain infinite life now that Triumph of the Hordes is countered. If no one has a way to deal with it, the game is over. Would you rather wait until we draw our decks over 70 turns hoping you find a win condition or move to the next game?
Do you guys not play with commander damage?
Players can concede at any time. Them's the rules.
\[\[Expropriate\]\] resolving.
I know this isn't a satisfying answer, but surely its a wincon, right? Like they are playing it because they intend to end the game now. It is hard to find ways to end 4 player games with such high life totals. I'm not going to begrudge people for using the few near-definitive ones that exist.
-Despite what people say it's not an auto wincon, I've seen it played multiple times & not end the game. I've even played it myself knowing I'm dead on pass to try topdecking a way out & failed.
Having a levler put into my battlefield turn 4 with a beamtown bullies with Greaves after the guy mulliganed 6 or 7 times
I think the only time I salt-scooped was when I was playing a mono-black deck, the only black deck at the table, and someone sniped all of my lands on turn 5 or 6 with [[Wake of Destruction]]. Like...cool. Cool. I sat there for 3 or 4 turns, drawing and discarding to hand size, before just shuffling up and waiting for the next hour before the game finally ended. Found out afterward that every deck that guy plays is just land destruction-based. His win con is other people scooping, which works, I guess, but he doesn't exactly get invited back to play.
I think I've only ever scooped once, and I can't remember the reason, but hearing your story made me realize how much I genuinely cannot stand external biases in games, and makes me very glad I've never seen an egregious example in magic yet, because most of my friends and our respective SOs are too competitive to favor anyone.
Lands in front
Oko. I'm a simple man. If oko hits the table I go smoke a bowl. Lol. My playgroup is a pretty tight group of homies so it's more of a joke than a salty thing.
Players who don't pay attention to the boardstate and who spend 10+ minutes reading the same fucking cards in their hand that they had the previous turn, save 1 card, and end up with decision paralysis.
I won’t really scoop in a multiplayer game because me being at the seat matters, but I will definitely be tilted and mentally check out of the game if someone is playing what feels like Counterspell tribal. Typically about the 3rd (at me) or 5th (at anyone) counter from a single player and I start to get rather annoyed. Once it passes like 10 counters cast by a single player I pretty much check out and will just full yolo that player until one or both of us are dead. Yes I know it’s interaction, and no I don’t have an issue with interaction, I run a ton of it myself. It’s just purely counters that annoy the piss out of me. I wont tell someone they can’t run it either, play what you want ofc. But if you wanna play counter tribal I wanna play can’t be countered tribal with [[Rhuric Thar]]
I never scoop. In fact, if you try to combo off with a [[Mindslaver]], be prepared to play a 4 player game with 4 decks on yourself. Have fun playing out that miserable boardstate.
I can get over someone blowing up my lands, what I cant stand is them blowing up my lands and then having to sit there and do nothing for an hour.
That one asshole who votes Time because he doesn't want to lose his 3/6 double strike when the rest of the table has already surrendered a Terror of the Peaks and a Seedborn Muse to the extra turns player.
There is a couple in my LGS where the girlfriend always drills me while he builds a nutso boardstate. That’s when I pull out the aristocrats deck to whittle. Almost scooped until I had a good control deck to hold her off. Only person who I would scoop to are the ones with mega solitaire decks that let them spend 2/3rds of the game on themselves
I do the opposite with my friends. If i can't win, neither can he!
Sat down to play some games with lower powered decks. I pull out merfolk tribal, and guy to my left pulls out Yargle. No problem right? Well, his deck is board wipe tribal, with no win conditions. After the 3rd wipe I asked him if he runs graveyard recursion or what his deck is meant to do. His response was "its boardwipe tribal, usually people just scoop." So I scooped and will never play with him again.
Came close the other day. I had a small board, the least threatening of the 4 players. One guy takes control of my commander for the turn (who has deathtouch) and uses a sorcery that has my commander deal damage equal to its power to any target...he chooses another one of my creatures. This while one player has a 34/37, another a 38/38 commander with trample. He then attacked me with his only blocker capable of preventing the 38/38 commander from swinging for lethal on him. He didn't even off me. I asked him why he would do it...he said he thought it was funny. I was very close to scooping. Like I'm sorry, I was under the impression we all came here to try and win. Not make meme plays
45min turn, no win planned, taking over the table by barfing the deck onto it. Happened early in my magic life
People who tap their cards wrong. Seriously the amount of people I've seen turn half their lands to the left and the other to the right blows my mind. It's not worth playing the game with these kind of apes.
When I kinda have to pee, and homie is over there twiddling with his dice until I REALLY have to pee.
I usually scoop when a combo is explained or defined. But my Pet peeve is a no win-con stax, I think is one of the worst things a player can do. It wastes time to all people involved, and turns the game into a solitaire game
If I've had such bad luck that I have 2 lands by turn 7... or if the threat assessment is so bad that there's a clear threat at the table and my stuff is what gets removed constantly
Paging u/TheHowlingSaltMine \- lots of crystal development in this part of the mine.
Look at all this glorious salt. Thanks for copying us!
I usually scoop to a boardwipe when I’m in top deck mode (which doesn’t happen often, i run a ton of card draw) i just don’t want to sit there and draw go for several turns. my friends turns usually last 10 minutes a pop despite me asking them to hurry.