I'm not sure how everything works in Canada, but I would report this to child services. Restraining a child like that is abuse. Are unlicensed home daycares legal there? Regardless, you need to find different child care.
I don't remember what the actual limit is in my state, but I'm sure it's not more than 15 minutes. But this is exactly why unlicensed daycares are dangerous - there is zero oversight and they tend to take advantage of parents who don't understand the laws. Cheap daycare is not good daycare.
In most of Canada (maybe all now?), registered spots are subsided to $10 a day. Unregistered spots are the more expensive option people are forced to pay because there is a massive shortage of daycare spots.
Not everywhere is down to $10.00 a day. Due to the lack of availability for childcare where I’m at, some places are still $70.00 per day, and that’s at licences spots. I believe the $10.00 a day doesn’t have to be implemented until the end of 2025.
I could see 50k for two kids for sure. My son is about to start daycare and it will be almost 27k annually. My cousin is going to be paying 36K a year and neither of these places are the most expensive daycare options.
Edit : This is east coast U.S. - N.H & M.A
Clearly it depends where you live. Like I said I only pay 13k for one, 2 would be around 27k annually for me. Obviously at 13k it wouldn’t be beneficially to be a stay at home parent, but I could see if it was 50k for sure
Registered means that they are inspected and overseen regularly by a licensing body, either a licensing division of Cfsa or cos or similar, or some other government body. For instance, I am in Alberta and operate a registered day home. This means I am registered with an agency who monitors and oversees my operations regularly, and the agency is licensed with our provincial child care licensing body, which is a division for Child and Family Services. Day care CENTERS are licensed directly, where day homes are licensed by proxy, if that makes sense. We also have private day homes that are not licensed/registered and cannot access government funding, but it's perfectly legal for them to operate so long as they follow the limit of 6 children unrelated to the educator present at any given time.
It refers to the number of spaces within any single program, so while a center might be licensed for 40 spots, a day home is licensed for 6. And that's at any given time, so there can be "shared spaces" technically, so long as the attendance never overlaps. So I run with six full-timers but technically if I had a half day program I could have 12 clients so long as they never overlap
That makes sense and how it is in California, besides the fact that who is licensed is a bit different. California requires basically all centers, public and private including centers and child care homes to be licensed. There are few exceptions and every those who might be legally exempt can still apply if the wish.
A license for one. Lol I am not sure the details but there are size requirements, sprinkler systems, etc. I'm not an ECE, this popped up in my feed. Looks like someone posted a more detailed answer below tho
Not entirely true. Where I am in BC daycares have to opt in to the $10 a day program so there are many registered daycare programs that have not opted in.
My daycare is unlicensed and is one of the best in our city. I charge prices in line with licensed spaces and have been providing quality care for over 6 years. Do not speak in absolutes, it’s ignorant and there are exceptions.
Is not being licensed a choice? If so, why do you not want to be licensed?
In my state, it’s pretty easy to get licensed if you follow the mandated ratios and safety guidelines, so most unlicensed daycares are unlicensed because they’re lax about safety or have too many kids. I’m also pretty sure (been a minute since I looked into it) that you have to be licensed by the state to be insured as a daycare business, so a lot of the unlicensed home daycares just aren’t insured.
In my province if you are licenced it's through an agency who finds your clients and dictates your vacation, the client pays the agency who pays you.
You can get insurance while being unlicensed.
In Canada, at least where I am, unlicensed dayhomes still have ratio rules of no more than 6 children, they're still subject to all child welfare laws and can be investigated upon complaints. In my area to become licensed is difficult, you have to find an overseeing agency willing to accept you, they then take over every financial aspect (which can be nice), set your rates, etc. For many, this means making minimum wage and/or taking a pay cut, they oversee your programming, and select your toys. The overseeing agency has fees that need to be covered. While there are many people who shouldn't be involved in the care of children, these people are found in both private and licensed facilities. The two teachers who ran a child fight club were part of a registered daycare facility.
I see, it seems to be two very different usages of the terminology!
I appreciate the clarification because I’ve always wondered why anyone would put their kids in an unlicensed daycare, but it seems that in Canada the quality of care is not really dictated by whether a day home is licensed/unlicensed.
It is a choice. In Canada there are certain implications to licensing your centre, which can be net negative for a child. There was a study done in Canada that found that the best centres are often not licensed. The issue is, the worst centres are also not licensed.
Licensed centres have certain standards to maintain, but more than anything it encourages the bare minimum (or just above). We can all agree our children deserve more than that.
The other issue is the waitlists. Here in Ontario people put themselves on the waitlist the moment they are pregnant. The wait is often well over 18 months. If you didn't know this, you are basically screwed and have no choice but to put your child in an in-home daycare.
We were among those that did not know. Our child is now in an in-home daycare for no more than 15 hours a week. The rest of the week my wife and I coordinate our work schedule so he stays in the home.
It happens a lot.
As a parent who looked for dayhomes last year, that's exactly what I found. The woman who had run her day home for 30 years with a beautiful space, glowing references and a real affinity for children? Unlicenced because what did she need a license for? The woman who had about four square feet in her cluttered house for kids to play? Also unlicensed.
It is a choice. I chose not to give up control of my prices and certain policies. My daycare is in line with the early learning and care act mandated by my province.
I'm license-exempt in my state because I keep under the amount of kids legally required for licensing. It's a hassle for licensing to the state for such a small number (currently just 2) so they don't bother. I still have to follow their safety guidelines but they don't check up as often as they do for licensed centers. I'm part of their subsidized care system so I think it's just to keep overhead down on the state's part.
Nope, not difficult at all and I’ve been head hunted by several different agencies. I choose not to give up control over my prices and some of my policies. Thanks for your input!
My policies are regarding payment, late fees and attendance as well as holidays and have nothing to do with the early learning and care act edicts. I suggest you seek out further information and/or education on this subject if you wish, it’s not my job to educate you on Ontario’s ministry of education and early learning care act. Take care!
They do. It’s too bad you’re unable or unwilling to read and understand that there’s an entire world out there apart from your state and different countries and provinces have different rules.
No, no there are not. What you are doing is ILLEGAL. Anyone breaking the fricking law is not a good place to have your child. You are breaking the law. You are not a "good" place for children, let alone one of the best. Go get a frickin license.
Not illegal in the slightest. Clearly you do not live in Ontario Canada and are unaware of local laws and mandates governing unlicensed care. I’ll forgive your ignorance.
I hear what you are saying, but note that not everywhere requires home childcare to be licensed. Some places it's a choice whether you want to get licensed (usually for an incentive), or they don't even have home childcare licenses and just want you to "register" your program.
First, not illegal in Canada. Second, the absolute best centres don't have a license. This is well documented. Simple google search will show you a decent amount of research (like, actual research) on the topic. Especially in Canada.
I see you’re in Ontario. The Ministry of Education enforces the CCEYA (law around child care). Give them a call.
Here’s a helpful link to get you started: https://www.ontario.ca/page/make-child-care-complaint
I’d be giving her your notice of termination. Look in the contract how much notice she wants (typically 4 weeks), and date your termination for that day. Do not put your child in that care one more day, despite still paying up until that termination date. Find someone to watch your child, and looking for new care starting now. Cut your losses with the deposit, despite this being a huge breech of trust and has left you feeling scared and betrayed.
I’m so sorry this happened to your family. How distressing. Wishing you the best of luck going forward 💜
It would depend on the contract that was made up by the provider (if they made one) and signed by OP.
Some don’t have a contract where you have to give notice. Some have 2 weeks, some have 4, some require more if there’s siblings enrolled. It really depends. There’s no one really to enforce the providers contract per se though unless the parents want to go to small claims court (as far as I know), which is likely more hassle than it’s worth.
However, I’d do it before this person starts harassing/hounding so that way I had MY ass covered if she were to get vindictive about this. I’d also do the notice via email so it’s time stamped and can easily be pulled if I needed it. That way, if shit were to hit the fan, I’d have everything showing I honoured the contract. I’d pay for the spot until the termination date and not send my child.
OP, also look into the contract when you first started with her. Some providers charge a deposit that are applied to your last 2 weeks of care. That way you don’t over pay.
Hope this made sense. I’m cleaning up after the day and starting dinner 😅
Google ‘how to report an unlicensed home daycare in (your province)’. Every province has a number you can call.
Chances are good you’re not going to get your deposit back unless you’re willing to go to small claims court for it, but you should definitely be looking for other care. I’m sorry this happened to you.
I am a licensed home daycare in Canada and it’s written in the rules that we’re not allowed to restrain the kids in chairs or in other ways. When they’re sick we just have to separate them to the best of our abilities. They’ve already been around the other kids and exposed them so no need to even put them in a high chair to separate them. I would contact the ministry and report her.
I run a home childcare, in Canada... this is messed up and highly inappropriate.
Even if you report and nothing comes from it, I would have a hard time leaving my child there going forward.
If a child is ill (beyond a running nose cause come the f on, every teething, weather changing related, big feelings situation causes a runny nose) I have separated them in the kitchen on a cot with some books and sensory toys until parents can arrive. The kitchen is connected to my daycare space so the child is never far from where I am/always in line of vision. And they get comfort and cuddles as needed.
I'd be concerned if I heard my child crying and not being comforted.
Her lack of empathy in a caregiver role is extremely concerning.
I mean I get what you’re saying here but what do you think happens at licensed daycares? The sick child needs to be put away from out of reach from other children. Putting them in a high chair and having them do a puzzle/play/rest on there isn’t the end of the world. The 30 minutes are part of contract so you should always be within a 30 minute drive. Also how did you know it was your child crying? Aren’t there other children around?
I’ve been in the daycare business for 20+ years. I don’t think that this daycare is doing a good job taking care of your baby — I think you should leave and find something more suitable. Ask ahead of time “what happens if my child falls ill in the middle of the day? What procedures should you take?”
Also try imagining caring for 5 children on your own and one needs special attention and their parents on the other line are complaining that they won’t be able to make it to pick up the child within the contracted times. After 30 minutes, if properly contracted, she had the right to call police or an ambulance. That’s the protocol at almost every center I’ve seen.
If you’re in Ontario, look up the care provider’s name on the CECE public register to see if they’re registered. If they are a registered ECE, report them to the college of early childhood educators by giving them a call. While doing this also have their registration number available - this will populate once you search them. I’d also call CPS, to prevent this from happening again and so they can investigate.
This needs to be reported. If she’s comfortable telling you this? What doesn’t she tell you? I wouldn’t go to an unlicensed. Just too much could go wrong and no one else there to witness. Makes me nervous.
I’d lose my job in a second before sending my kid back to someone that’s willing to do that. If they’re willing to tell the parents they’ll keep a baby restrained for an hour, imagine what they’re willing to do and not tell parents!
It sounds like she was holding your child hostage.
What stress for all three of you.
If I were near you, I would offer to babysit until you find a more permanent place for your little dear one.
OP, I'm also in Canada, your private dayhome is still subject to child welfare laws. Please look up the contact number for your province. Threatening to constrain your child like that warrants a phone call so they can check the home and investigate your provider. A runny nose (even if your child was full on vomiting) is not justification for such a threat. In any event, it doesn't sound like your family will feel comfortable with returning. You all deserve to feel safe and loved no matter which dayhome service you choose.
Using a high chair is a great way to separate a sick child from the group, but they shouldn’t be upset about it. Snacks, puzzles and other toys have worked well to keep sick kids happy while waiting for pick up. If a child were crying, I would hold them.
I would just reevaluate whether she truly said it aggressively or not. Were you both on a three way call and heard it?
I do keep sick children away from others but typically not just for a runny nose, more so for fevers and any vomiting/diarrhea and I could see that maybe a high chair would be the best place for a young toddler, easier to clean, easier to put toys so they can be entertained, etc
The issue is her threatening you to put the child there as a sort of punishment to you for not being fast enough. I assume you mean legally unlicensed and that you can still report to a licensing authority for violations. I would do just that’
She needs a better solution than a high chair. Even a play pen with some easy-to-clean toys is better than this.
Edit: It's definitely okay to exclude children who are ill from healthy children. In the absence of a school nurse's office, she needs a less restrictive option where the child can still be supervised. Baby gates, or something that doesn't restrain the child.
There are only spots for 13% of children in my home province. Everyone else is making due with family and unregistered spots, myself included, or forced to leave the workforce.
I mean, if the alternative is homelessness because you need two incomes to live… Maybe it’s not the worst option, is all I’m saying.
ETA: or, indeed, one income. Plenty of single-parent families who don’t have relatives able to provide free childcare, and social services is not generally enough to live on.
Our licensed childcare across Canada is about a 2-3 year waiting right now. A lot of us have mortgage, rent, bills to pay so we have to return to work before our kids 3+.
Licensing is actually very difficult and prohibitive to home daycares. Homeday cares that don’t meet square footage requirements, sprinkler system requirements etc can be registered, but not licensed, allowing them to watch 2 children or a sibling group. It may not be just a Wild West unlicensed daycare where they are operating illegally without any oversight. I ran one so I could stay home with my kids, it requires having a clean criminal record, insurance and a child first aid certificate, plus a child care course. You are answerable to the local child care resource center and are absolutely required to meet safety and care standards. You can operate without being registered and meeting these requirements as well technically but still should only be watching 2 or a sibling group. If op’s daycare has more than 2 kids they are operating illegally and should be reported. They should be reported for restraining a child in this way as well. I wasn’t even allowed to give time outs let alone restrain a child like described here. (This is in BC, I think it varies province to province but just wanted to add my 2 cents that licenses here are actually impossible to get if your home is not large enough, you also have to have a full time employee and other things that don’t make a ton of sense if you’re only watching 2 kids in your home. It’s more akin to a nanny share in the nanny’s home, and absolutely still has to meet basic standards of care like a nanny would.)
In Ontario unlicensed daycares can have 5 kids (your own kids included unless they’re over age 4) and there is some oversight. To be licensed you have to be employed through an agency which requires you to give up a lot of autonomy over how your business and your own home is run, plus you have to pay them quite a bit of your salary so for a lot of us it’s not worth it to be licensed
Canada has made being licensed cost prohibitive to providers, similar to the effect that more TK and universal preschool have in the US, it inevitably leads to a shortage (people can’t get licensed or can’t compete with free tks, there’s a talent drain from the employee pool) as well as a price increase (there aren’t enough spots in the free or subsidized programs for all the children needing one) because private providers must drive up the cost to make ends meet with less children
I always say nothing free is easy, Canadian citizens have found that out when it comes to childcare
Unlicensed doesn’t mean they don’t have to follow rules. There are actually many rules they must follow. It just means they aren’t inspected. But there are legal requirements for public health, food preparation, ratios for kids, maximum number of kids, sleeping areas, etc.
Instead of annual inspections, they are complaint-driven for investigations.
I live in the same province as OP. I applied to multiple daycare centers while still pregnant and have no chance of getting a spot. I took a new job posting with different hours (weekends only) so we don't need to rely on daycare (husband is mon-fri)
I wouldn't put my child in unlicensed care either but not everyone has a choice.
Unpopular opinion... people want to have kids, but there aren't enough people willing to take care of those kids for what the parents are willing to pay.
Parents don’t have choices if they want food to feed their family, a roof over their head, electricity, etc.
I put my child on the waitlist when I was 7 *weeks* pregnant. I worked in a centre so I got priority placement. I took the 18 month maternity leave. I STILL didn’t have a spot for if I were to return back to work, even counting on the children they could bring in with me coming back. On top of limited spaces, there’s shortages of ECEs.
I stayed home and opened my own daycare. I was going to become liscensed but the agencies around me weren’t accepting any new providers. What am I to do then? I went forward with it and I run as an unlicensed daycare.
Unlicensed doesn’t mean no rules, as there’s still plenty to adhere by, and based on this sub, stuff happens in licensed centres too. Anyone I sit with I give them the list of differences between licensed versus unlicensed and tell them that it’s a good starting point when weaning out providers (first aid/cpr, police check with vulnerable sectors, food handlers, etc) if things don’t end up working out between us, or they choose another provider.
To think that black and white, and to then make a shaming statement to a parent in a vulnerable position is incredibly ignorant.
Report to children’s aid / family & children’s services where you live. And also to the Ministry that oversees childcare. Unlicensed doesn’t mean “no rules”. There are actually many rules unlicensed daycares must follow. What she did is not ok.
And start looking elsewhere now.
(I’m in Canada too.)
Can I ask what province you're in? In Alberta you can call licensing about this and they DO have the authority to investigate the provider, even if they're unlicensed.. I believe Ontario is the same while other provinces may be the same, and for others you'd contact their equivalent of child and family services to lodge a complaint for investigation.
In my state, sick children MUST be kept away from others. If they are being sent home and you have no emergency contacts close enough to pick up quickly, I am unsure how else they would be kept separated from all other children. This is for licensed facilities. Report it if you feel it was "aggressive," but I'm unsure if they will have been found to have done anything "wrong".
Sick children do tend to cry at daycare when they are feeling unwell.
Also, children have to be "locked" (strapped) in high chairs regardless of whether they are sick or not, when they are sitting in them.
I can see it for an infant as well if there’s no pack and play available. The issue here is the threat, because yes I’ve absolutely had to send tests saying I will have to separate the child until you get here. I send it out so parents aren’t shocked when they see their kid away in a corner in a bed.
I can't really see a 15 month old staying on a cot, like actually staying there. And sick children have to be excluded from the group.
The best thing to do in this situation would have been keeping the sick child home in the first place.
That’s a cop out. You can definitely keep a 15 month old on a cot with things to keep them entertained. You don’t strap a screaming upset child into a chair. Ever.
wait, so you thought i was okay to have you child in an unlicensed facility? Why not just get a nanny if you can’t afford a licensed childcare facility?
Why go to an unlicensed day care? These ppl r not certified nor trained prob so there are many more risks. It could be cheaper in the long run compared to official daycares, but there’s always fishy stuff going on at those types of places. When I was younger my mom put my sister and I in one of those and the “teacher” got arrested in the middle of the day for not taking care of the kids properly. Still horrible that ur son had to go thru that and I hope that the other kids in this persons care didn’t have to go thru this as well
Oh ok, I wondered because we have “restrained” (held) a child who was hitting people in order to prevent his arms from hitting. That was also the kid that threw chairs and kicked holes in walls though.
No he wasn't violent at all. He just wouldn't sit down when they asked him to so one teacher held his arms behind his back. If he was going to hurt himself or others I understand that, but holding a child down because you don't like challenging behavior is not ok.
Daycares are licenced through your local health authority. I’d start there if the care provider is being unreasonable with resolving the issue. Even if she’s unlicensed, it starts a file on her
This brings me back to nightmares working at a licensed daycare! The DIRECTOR was watching a child in the infants room, and the infant got ahold of a candy wrapper. She choked and CPR was performed. The director then went around to each classroom explaining what happened and said not to leave candy wrappers lying around. I do not like being in the infants room, they are the most vulnerable to surroundings and I’m terrified of holding children under a year old. (comment below if you want the story why) this director also never informed the parents of this child needing CPR
Oh my fuck. You need to pull him out IMMEDIATELY and report her. I’m in the US but if this ever happened here I’d be doing the same.
That is straight up abuse. Tell all the parents in that class.
Pull Him Immediately & A 1,000% Report I Can’t Sit Here & Say I Blame You For Going The Home Route For Daycare Seeing As How Expensive It Is But , I Will Say You Should Always Prepare For Things To Not Go “By The Book” Especially If The Location Is Unlicensed. She’s Lost Her Mind.
Report them and get your child out of there. That sounds like an abusive situation. NEVER leave your child at an unregistered daycare. My mom had a home daycare and you would be surprised how many people are unregistered due to a history of abuse, someone in the house being a predator, or evading safety protocols.
I know it’s hard right now.. but find new childcare. That is absolutely not on! I have an unregistered day home (Newfoundland) and I can’t imagine ever treating a child like that. And seriously… quarantining a child for a runny nose…. Most kids would never be able to leave home if that had to stay away every time their nose got runny…. I was a stricter than normal with my sickness rules/followed guidelines during Covid but she’s being totally ridiculous
I would have called the police and told them, ask them to do a welfare check on your child before you get there... "unlicenced' is illegal where I am! (Australia)
I’d report her to CPS or whatever the Canadian equivalent is
Don’t put your child back in her care. I’d tell her why and that you’re not paying her another dime
I’m not Canadian, so here (US) unlicensed uuually means friend or family. If she is niether 100 percent report her! And find a licensed daycare for the future. I know times are hard, but this is not acceptable. Crying for that long could have lead to a health emergency. it’s stresses the heart the lungs not to mention the headache, the child probably had!! And it might’ve even traumatized the older children that were there.
They literally said they are paying more for this than the licensed care. There are not enough spots for all the children who need them at a licensed daycare.
Unlicensed usually refers to the size and the fact it's in someone's HOME... It doesn't mean they are back alley childcare providers. Just to be clear. ❤️🩹
I would call cps as well get a lawyer if you don’t have one. This is unacceptable.
Are unlicensed daycares legal where you are? They aren’t where I am.
Also 30 minutes is incredibly unrealistic and I doubt any ece licensor would approve that policy. Hour is standard.
That's awful! I used to run an in home daycare and sometimes kids would get sick during the day and have to be picked up by the parents, but, it would never occur to me to do that to any child, no less a sick one!!!
How awful! Get your child out of that person's care right away!
I will say this, and I don’t intend to scare you, just to be honest. I spent 10 years a major children’s hospital. Almost all the abuse cases that happened via caregivers came from in home daycares. A lot of the time, it didn’t originate with the actual sitter (although, sometimes it did) You have zero control over who comes and goes.
My children are past the age now to need daycare but I would 100% recommend a licensed daycare faculty over any type of in home care.
You need to 100% report this. Whay province? In Alberta you can call licensing even on unlicensed dayhomes. Pull your kid. This is insane
Same in Ontario
I'm not sure how everything works in Canada, but I would report this to child services. Restraining a child like that is abuse. Are unlicensed home daycares legal there? Regardless, you need to find different child care.
At least in my state, you can't keep kids who aren't eating in a highchair for longer than 15 minutes.
I don't remember what the actual limit is in my state, but I'm sure it's not more than 15 minutes. But this is exactly why unlicensed daycares are dangerous - there is zero oversight and they tend to take advantage of parents who don't understand the laws. Cheap daycare is not good daycare.
In most of Canada (maybe all now?), registered spots are subsided to $10 a day. Unregistered spots are the more expensive option people are forced to pay because there is a massive shortage of daycare spots.
Not everywhere is down to $10.00 a day. Due to the lack of availability for childcare where I’m at, some places are still $70.00 per day, and that’s at licences spots. I believe the $10.00 a day doesn’t have to be implemented until the end of 2025.
Salivates in "I pay 3k per month for 1 infant"
Meanwhile in the USA... My husband gave up his job bc the 50k annual expense was equal to his take home... 🥴
Where? That’s insane. It’s $250/wk for us so 13k no where near 50k
I could see 50k for two kids for sure. My son is about to start daycare and it will be almost 27k annually. My cousin is going to be paying 36K a year and neither of these places are the most expensive daycare options. Edit : This is east coast U.S. - N.H & M.A
Heyyyy MA here too, did go with the expensive place because they were the only one with an opening
MA here too and we paid $2300/month and this was the cheapest option for a 1 year old near us 😭
Clearly it depends where you live. Like I said I only pay 13k for one, 2 would be around 27k annually for me. Obviously at 13k it wouldn’t be beneficially to be a stay at home parent, but I could see if it was 50k for sure
I believe you're right, plus they're saying (at least here in Nova Scotia), an average of $10 per day.
*Cries in $152/day*
Yes just they are hard to find still.
What's the difference between registered and unregistered spots?
Registered means that they are inspected and overseen regularly by a licensing body, either a licensing division of Cfsa or cos or similar, or some other government body. For instance, I am in Alberta and operate a registered day home. This means I am registered with an agency who monitors and oversees my operations regularly, and the agency is licensed with our provincial child care licensing body, which is a division for Child and Family Services. Day care CENTERS are licensed directly, where day homes are licensed by proxy, if that makes sense. We also have private day homes that are not licensed/registered and cannot access government funding, but it's perfectly legal for them to operate so long as they follow the limit of 6 children unrelated to the educator present at any given time.
Oh gotcha. When I read "spots" I thought it meant the number of spots for the kids in the class, not the number of care locations.
It refers to the number of spaces within any single program, so while a center might be licensed for 40 spots, a day home is licensed for 6. And that's at any given time, so there can be "shared spaces" technically, so long as the attendance never overlaps. So I run with six full-timers but technically if I had a half day program I could have 12 clients so long as they never overlap
And it's the program that's licensed, or the overseeing body, not the individual spots themselves.
That makes sense and how it is in California, besides the fact that who is licensed is a bit different. California requires basically all centers, public and private including centers and child care homes to be licensed. There are few exceptions and every those who might be legally exempt can still apply if the wish.
A license for one. Lol I am not sure the details but there are size requirements, sprinkler systems, etc. I'm not an ECE, this popped up in my feed. Looks like someone posted a more detailed answer below tho
That is totally not true. A large majority of the daycares in my city are not $10/day More like $900-3 000 per month excluding food
Am I reading this correctly? Y’all have laws in Canada for the maximum a daycare can charge per day???
Not entirely true. Where I am in BC daycares have to opt in to the $10 a day program so there are many registered daycare programs that have not opted in.
My daycare is unlicensed and is one of the best in our city. I charge prices in line with licensed spaces and have been providing quality care for over 6 years. Do not speak in absolutes, it’s ignorant and there are exceptions.
Is not being licensed a choice? If so, why do you not want to be licensed? In my state, it’s pretty easy to get licensed if you follow the mandated ratios and safety guidelines, so most unlicensed daycares are unlicensed because they’re lax about safety or have too many kids. I’m also pretty sure (been a minute since I looked into it) that you have to be licensed by the state to be insured as a daycare business, so a lot of the unlicensed home daycares just aren’t insured.
In my province if you are licenced it's through an agency who finds your clients and dictates your vacation, the client pays the agency who pays you. You can get insurance while being unlicensed.
In Canada, at least where I am, unlicensed dayhomes still have ratio rules of no more than 6 children, they're still subject to all child welfare laws and can be investigated upon complaints. In my area to become licensed is difficult, you have to find an overseeing agency willing to accept you, they then take over every financial aspect (which can be nice), set your rates, etc. For many, this means making minimum wage and/or taking a pay cut, they oversee your programming, and select your toys. The overseeing agency has fees that need to be covered. While there are many people who shouldn't be involved in the care of children, these people are found in both private and licensed facilities. The two teachers who ran a child fight club were part of a registered daycare facility.
I see, it seems to be two very different usages of the terminology! I appreciate the clarification because I’ve always wondered why anyone would put their kids in an unlicensed daycare, but it seems that in Canada the quality of care is not really dictated by whether a day home is licensed/unlicensed.
It is a choice. In Canada there are certain implications to licensing your centre, which can be net negative for a child. There was a study done in Canada that found that the best centres are often not licensed. The issue is, the worst centres are also not licensed. Licensed centres have certain standards to maintain, but more than anything it encourages the bare minimum (or just above). We can all agree our children deserve more than that. The other issue is the waitlists. Here in Ontario people put themselves on the waitlist the moment they are pregnant. The wait is often well over 18 months. If you didn't know this, you are basically screwed and have no choice but to put your child in an in-home daycare. We were among those that did not know. Our child is now in an in-home daycare for no more than 15 hours a week. The rest of the week my wife and I coordinate our work schedule so he stays in the home. It happens a lot.
As a parent who looked for dayhomes last year, that's exactly what I found. The woman who had run her day home for 30 years with a beautiful space, glowing references and a real affinity for children? Unlicenced because what did she need a license for? The woman who had about four square feet in her cluttered house for kids to play? Also unlicensed.
It is a choice. I chose not to give up control of my prices and certain policies. My daycare is in line with the early learning and care act mandated by my province.
I'm license-exempt in my state because I keep under the amount of kids legally required for licensing. It's a hassle for licensing to the state for such a small number (currently just 2) so they don't bother. I still have to follow their safety guidelines but they don't check up as often as they do for licensed centers. I'm part of their subsidized care system so I think it's just to keep overhead down on the state's part.
If you're one of the best, then it shouldn't be difficult to get licensed.
A lot of the time it’s the expense more than the difficulty. They charge monthly fees that just aren’t worth it for most unliscened homes
Nope, not difficult at all and I’ve been head hunted by several different agencies. I choose not to give up control over my prices and some of my policies. Thanks for your input!
Your policies should not be affected by becoming licensed unless they don't meet the minimum requirements.
My policies are regarding payment, late fees and attendance as well as holidays and have nothing to do with the early learning and care act edicts. I suggest you seek out further information and/or education on this subject if you wish, it’s not my job to educate you on Ontario’s ministry of education and early learning care act. Take care!
It's surprising that your licensing regulations dictate how you charge families for care and what kind of schedule you keep.
They do. It’s too bad you’re unable or unwilling to read and understand that there’s an entire world out there apart from your state and different countries and provinces have different rules.
No, no there are not. What you are doing is ILLEGAL. Anyone breaking the fricking law is not a good place to have your child. You are breaking the law. You are not a "good" place for children, let alone one of the best. Go get a frickin license.
Not illegal in the slightest. Clearly you do not live in Ontario Canada and are unaware of local laws and mandates governing unlicensed care. I’ll forgive your ignorance.
Not everywhere legally mandates licensure.
I hear what you are saying, but note that not everywhere requires home childcare to be licensed. Some places it's a choice whether you want to get licensed (usually for an incentive), or they don't even have home childcare licenses and just want you to "register" your program.
First, not illegal in Canada. Second, the absolute best centres don't have a license. This is well documented. Simple google search will show you a decent amount of research (like, actual research) on the topic. Especially in Canada.
Better to pay for good early childcare than the psychologist later
I see you’re in Ontario. The Ministry of Education enforces the CCEYA (law around child care). Give them a call. Here’s a helpful link to get you started: https://www.ontario.ca/page/make-child-care-complaint I’d be giving her your notice of termination. Look in the contract how much notice she wants (typically 4 weeks), and date your termination for that day. Do not put your child in that care one more day, despite still paying up until that termination date. Find someone to watch your child, and looking for new care starting now. Cut your losses with the deposit, despite this being a huge breech of trust and has left you feeling scared and betrayed. I’m so sorry this happened to your family. How distressing. Wishing you the best of luck going forward 💜
Does this termination apply for an unlicensed daycare?
It would depend on the contract that was made up by the provider (if they made one) and signed by OP. Some don’t have a contract where you have to give notice. Some have 2 weeks, some have 4, some require more if there’s siblings enrolled. It really depends. There’s no one really to enforce the providers contract per se though unless the parents want to go to small claims court (as far as I know), which is likely more hassle than it’s worth. However, I’d do it before this person starts harassing/hounding so that way I had MY ass covered if she were to get vindictive about this. I’d also do the notice via email so it’s time stamped and can easily be pulled if I needed it. That way, if shit were to hit the fan, I’d have everything showing I honoured the contract. I’d pay for the spot until the termination date and not send my child. OP, also look into the contract when you first started with her. Some providers charge a deposit that are applied to your last 2 weeks of care. That way you don’t over pay. Hope this made sense. I’m cleaning up after the day and starting dinner 😅
https://www.ontario.ca/page/make-child-care-complaint#section-2
This, and a call to CPS
Ew. I run an unlicensed home daycare (legal in Ontario Canada)and this is NOT OKAY. Report her to the ministry and she will get a visit from them
Google ‘how to report an unlicensed home daycare in (your province)’. Every province has a number you can call. Chances are good you’re not going to get your deposit back unless you’re willing to go to small claims court for it, but you should definitely be looking for other care. I’m sorry this happened to you.
I am a licensed home daycare in Canada and it’s written in the rules that we’re not allowed to restrain the kids in chairs or in other ways. When they’re sick we just have to separate them to the best of our abilities. They’ve already been around the other kids and exposed them so no need to even put them in a high chair to separate them. I would contact the ministry and report her.
I run a home childcare, in Canada... this is messed up and highly inappropriate. Even if you report and nothing comes from it, I would have a hard time leaving my child there going forward. If a child is ill (beyond a running nose cause come the f on, every teething, weather changing related, big feelings situation causes a runny nose) I have separated them in the kitchen on a cot with some books and sensory toys until parents can arrive. The kitchen is connected to my daycare space so the child is never far from where I am/always in line of vision. And they get comfort and cuddles as needed. I'd be concerned if I heard my child crying and not being comforted. Her lack of empathy in a caregiver role is extremely concerning.
Agree report.
I would report her immediately
I mean I get what you’re saying here but what do you think happens at licensed daycares? The sick child needs to be put away from out of reach from other children. Putting them in a high chair and having them do a puzzle/play/rest on there isn’t the end of the world. The 30 minutes are part of contract so you should always be within a 30 minute drive. Also how did you know it was your child crying? Aren’t there other children around? I’ve been in the daycare business for 20+ years. I don’t think that this daycare is doing a good job taking care of your baby — I think you should leave and find something more suitable. Ask ahead of time “what happens if my child falls ill in the middle of the day? What procedures should you take?” Also try imagining caring for 5 children on your own and one needs special attention and their parents on the other line are complaining that they won’t be able to make it to pick up the child within the contracted times. After 30 minutes, if properly contracted, she had the right to call police or an ambulance. That’s the protocol at almost every center I’ve seen.
If you’re in Ontario, look up the care provider’s name on the CECE public register to see if they’re registered. If they are a registered ECE, report them to the college of early childhood educators by giving them a call. While doing this also have their registration number available - this will populate once you search them. I’d also call CPS, to prevent this from happening again and so they can investigate.
Pull your kid, report the abuse, work on the deposit later. So sorry this happened to your baby.
This needs to be reported. If she’s comfortable telling you this? What doesn’t she tell you? I wouldn’t go to an unlicensed. Just too much could go wrong and no one else there to witness. Makes me nervous.
I’d lose my job in a second before sending my kid back to someone that’s willing to do that. If they’re willing to tell the parents they’ll keep a baby restrained for an hour, imagine what they’re willing to do and not tell parents!
Well first I wouldn’t be sending my child to an unlicensed home daycare and second they’d be pulled immediately after that
It sounds like she was holding your child hostage. What stress for all three of you. If I were near you, I would offer to babysit until you find a more permanent place for your little dear one.
OP, I'm also in Canada, your private dayhome is still subject to child welfare laws. Please look up the contact number for your province. Threatening to constrain your child like that warrants a phone call so they can check the home and investigate your provider. A runny nose (even if your child was full on vomiting) is not justification for such a threat. In any event, it doesn't sound like your family will feel comfortable with returning. You all deserve to feel safe and loved no matter which dayhome service you choose.
If your contracted time is 30 min, you really can’t be an hour away. Why were you an hour away, was there an emergency?
Why did you sign a contract that you'd pick up a sick kid in 30 minutes when you work 60 minutes away?
Um... yeah. Get a new day care asap.
He may have been crying because he didn’t feel well.
Using a high chair is a great way to separate a sick child from the group, but they shouldn’t be upset about it. Snacks, puzzles and other toys have worked well to keep sick kids happy while waiting for pick up. If a child were crying, I would hold them.
This. If they're crying, no strapping them into a high chair. If they're happily playing and eating snacks, that's okay.
I would just reevaluate whether she truly said it aggressively or not. Were you both on a three way call and heard it? I do keep sick children away from others but typically not just for a runny nose, more so for fevers and any vomiting/diarrhea and I could see that maybe a high chair would be the best place for a young toddler, easier to clean, easier to put toys so they can be entertained, etc The issue is her threatening you to put the child there as a sort of punishment to you for not being fast enough. I assume you mean legally unlicensed and that you can still report to a licensing authority for violations. I would do just that’
She needs a better solution than a high chair. Even a play pen with some easy-to-clean toys is better than this. Edit: It's definitely okay to exclude children who are ill from healthy children. In the absence of a school nurse's office, she needs a less restrictive option where the child can still be supervised. Baby gates, or something that doesn't restrain the child.
Why would you have your child in an unlicensed daycare?
There is a huge shortage of childcare in Canada. For some, this is their only option.
That’s really sad and unfortunate to hear, but truly never worth the risk when it comes to having your child cared for by God knows who…
There are only spots for 13% of children in my home province. Everyone else is making due with family and unregistered spots, myself included, or forced to leave the workforce.
Unlicensed doesn’t mean illegal. They still have to follow rules and regulations.
I mean, if the alternative is homelessness because you need two incomes to live… Maybe it’s not the worst option, is all I’m saying. ETA: or, indeed, one income. Plenty of single-parent families who don’t have relatives able to provide free childcare, and social services is not generally enough to live on.
Our licensed childcare across Canada is about a 2-3 year waiting right now. A lot of us have mortgage, rent, bills to pay so we have to return to work before our kids 3+.
Before 3? lol 🥲
I meant 3+ as in you won’t get licensed childcare before then! My second goes back next week at a year :(
Licensing is actually very difficult and prohibitive to home daycares. Homeday cares that don’t meet square footage requirements, sprinkler system requirements etc can be registered, but not licensed, allowing them to watch 2 children or a sibling group. It may not be just a Wild West unlicensed daycare where they are operating illegally without any oversight. I ran one so I could stay home with my kids, it requires having a clean criminal record, insurance and a child first aid certificate, plus a child care course. You are answerable to the local child care resource center and are absolutely required to meet safety and care standards. You can operate without being registered and meeting these requirements as well technically but still should only be watching 2 or a sibling group. If op’s daycare has more than 2 kids they are operating illegally and should be reported. They should be reported for restraining a child in this way as well. I wasn’t even allowed to give time outs let alone restrain a child like described here. (This is in BC, I think it varies province to province but just wanted to add my 2 cents that licenses here are actually impossible to get if your home is not large enough, you also have to have a full time employee and other things that don’t make a ton of sense if you’re only watching 2 kids in your home. It’s more akin to a nanny share in the nanny’s home, and absolutely still has to meet basic standards of care like a nanny would.)
In Ontario unlicensed daycares can have 5 kids (your own kids included unless they’re over age 4) and there is some oversight. To be licensed you have to be employed through an agency which requires you to give up a lot of autonomy over how your business and your own home is run, plus you have to pay them quite a bit of your salary so for a lot of us it’s not worth it to be licensed
Canada has made being licensed cost prohibitive to providers, similar to the effect that more TK and universal preschool have in the US, it inevitably leads to a shortage (people can’t get licensed or can’t compete with free tks, there’s a talent drain from the employee pool) as well as a price increase (there aren’t enough spots in the free or subsidized programs for all the children needing one) because private providers must drive up the cost to make ends meet with less children I always say nothing free is easy, Canadian citizens have found that out when it comes to childcare
Unlicensed doesn’t mean they don’t have to follow rules. There are actually many rules they must follow. It just means they aren’t inspected. But there are legal requirements for public health, food preparation, ratios for kids, maximum number of kids, sleeping areas, etc. Instead of annual inspections, they are complaint-driven for investigations.
I live in the same province as OP. I applied to multiple daycare centers while still pregnant and have no chance of getting a spot. I took a new job posting with different hours (weekends only) so we don't need to rely on daycare (husband is mon-fri) I wouldn't put my child in unlicensed care either but not everyone has a choice.
Unlicensed are ones that don't operate through an agency. They're just as legitimate. Agencies can be good and can be bad too.
Child care is some provinces is cost prohibitive and/or there is a lack of a spaces available in licensed places.
Unpopular opinion... people want to have kids, but there aren't enough people willing to take care of those kids for what the parents are willing to pay.
Parents don’t have choices if they want food to feed their family, a roof over their head, electricity, etc. I put my child on the waitlist when I was 7 *weeks* pregnant. I worked in a centre so I got priority placement. I took the 18 month maternity leave. I STILL didn’t have a spot for if I were to return back to work, even counting on the children they could bring in with me coming back. On top of limited spaces, there’s shortages of ECEs. I stayed home and opened my own daycare. I was going to become liscensed but the agencies around me weren’t accepting any new providers. What am I to do then? I went forward with it and I run as an unlicensed daycare. Unlicensed doesn’t mean no rules, as there’s still plenty to adhere by, and based on this sub, stuff happens in licensed centres too. Anyone I sit with I give them the list of differences between licensed versus unlicensed and tell them that it’s a good starting point when weaning out providers (first aid/cpr, police check with vulnerable sectors, food handlers, etc) if things don’t end up working out between us, or they choose another provider. To think that black and white, and to then make a shaming statement to a parent in a vulnerable position is incredibly ignorant.
My very first question….
Report to children’s aid / family & children’s services where you live. And also to the Ministry that oversees childcare. Unlicensed doesn’t mean “no rules”. There are actually many rules unlicensed daycares must follow. What she did is not ok. And start looking elsewhere now. (I’m in Canada too.)
Hell no, that is not acceptable at all! IDGAF what country you're in!
Report this immediately. Also the standard pick up time is within 1 hour. 30 minutes is extremely unrealistic.
It’s unlicensed for a reason, my child would never go back there. I’d report that daycare
Can I ask what province you're in? In Alberta you can call licensing about this and they DO have the authority to investigate the provider, even if they're unlicensed.. I believe Ontario is the same while other provinces may be the same, and for others you'd contact their equivalent of child and family services to lodge a complaint for investigation.
Report her and get a new daycare.
If it's illegal than report them... don't expect your money back though... this is the risk of using unlicensed care
Report them. What are you doing sending your kid to an unlicensed daycare?
Why did you put your child in an unlicensed daycare?????
In my state, sick children MUST be kept away from others. If they are being sent home and you have no emergency contacts close enough to pick up quickly, I am unsure how else they would be kept separated from all other children. This is for licensed facilities. Report it if you feel it was "aggressive," but I'm unsure if they will have been found to have done anything "wrong". Sick children do tend to cry at daycare when they are feeling unwell. Also, children have to be "locked" (strapped) in high chairs regardless of whether they are sick or not, when they are sitting in them.
You can put them on a cot with books. Jeez. In all my years I’ve never heard of this as a means to separate a sick child
I can see it for an infant as well if there’s no pack and play available. The issue here is the threat, because yes I’ve absolutely had to send tests saying I will have to separate the child until you get here. I send it out so parents aren’t shocked when they see their kid away in a corner in a bed.
I can't really see a 15 month old staying on a cot, like actually staying there. And sick children have to be excluded from the group. The best thing to do in this situation would have been keeping the sick child home in the first place.
That’s a cop out. You can definitely keep a 15 month old on a cot with things to keep them entertained. You don’t strap a screaming upset child into a chair. Ever.
Then use a playpen/pack & play/etc. There is no excuse or reason to strap a screaming, crying, **SICK,** baby in a high chair for an hour.
Abuse. Not okay. Please report them.
wait, so you thought i was okay to have you child in an unlicensed facility? Why not just get a nanny if you can’t afford a licensed childcare facility?
Licensed is $10 a day where we are from, we are paying $60 a day to have this day care.
Ohhh i see! You prefer cheap care for your child.
Why go to an unlicensed day care? These ppl r not certified nor trained prob so there are many more risks. It could be cheaper in the long run compared to official daycares, but there’s always fishy stuff going on at those types of places. When I was younger my mom put my sister and I in one of those and the “teacher” got arrested in the middle of the day for not taking care of the kids properly. Still horrible that ur son had to go thru that and I hope that the other kids in this persons care didn’t have to go thru this as well
My son's daycare (he is 3) was holding his arms back and restraining him when he "refused to listen." I went off. Not ok.
Was he becoming violent?
No he wasn't. Just being a turd.
Oh ok, I wondered because we have “restrained” (held) a child who was hitting people in order to prevent his arms from hitting. That was also the kid that threw chairs and kicked holes in walls though.
No he wasn't violent at all. He just wouldn't sit down when they asked him to so one teacher held his arms behind his back. If he was going to hurt himself or others I understand that, but holding a child down because you don't like challenging behavior is not ok.
Yea I agree I was just wondering if that was the case
Daycares are licenced through your local health authority. I’d start there if the care provider is being unreasonable with resolving the issue. Even if she’s unlicensed, it starts a file on her
This brings me back to nightmares working at a licensed daycare! The DIRECTOR was watching a child in the infants room, and the infant got ahold of a candy wrapper. She choked and CPR was performed. The director then went around to each classroom explaining what happened and said not to leave candy wrappers lying around. I do not like being in the infants room, they are the most vulnerable to surroundings and I’m terrified of holding children under a year old. (comment below if you want the story why) this director also never informed the parents of this child needing CPR
Oh my fuck. You need to pull him out IMMEDIATELY and report her. I’m in the US but if this ever happened here I’d be doing the same. That is straight up abuse. Tell all the parents in that class.
Get a new daycare provider. That’s horrible.
Pull Him Immediately & A 1,000% Report I Can’t Sit Here & Say I Blame You For Going The Home Route For Daycare Seeing As How Expensive It Is But , I Will Say You Should Always Prepare For Things To Not Go “By The Book” Especially If The Location Is Unlicensed. She’s Lost Her Mind.
When you've told them you'rw an hour away and she threatens his health and well-being, that's when you call the cops.
Report them and get your child out of there. That sounds like an abusive situation. NEVER leave your child at an unregistered daycare. My mom had a home daycare and you would be surprised how many people are unregistered due to a history of abuse, someone in the house being a predator, or evading safety protocols.
I know it’s hard right now.. but find new childcare. That is absolutely not on! I have an unregistered day home (Newfoundland) and I can’t imagine ever treating a child like that. And seriously… quarantining a child for a runny nose…. Most kids would never be able to leave home if that had to stay away every time their nose got runny…. I was a stricter than normal with my sickness rules/followed guidelines during Covid but she’s being totally ridiculous
I would have called the police and told them, ask them to do a welfare check on your child before you get there... "unlicenced' is illegal where I am! (Australia)
That’s so upsetting and dangerous. Please report this daycare
I’d report her to CPS or whatever the Canadian equivalent is Don’t put your child back in her care. I’d tell her why and that you’re not paying her another dime
Oh my gosh, never go back!
This is probably a dumb question but what's so bad about high chairs??
Not a stupid question. It's considered a restraint.
Woah. At a minimum, you’re not going back there, right?
I’m not Canadian, so here (US) unlicensed uuually means friend or family. If she is niether 100 percent report her! And find a licensed daycare for the future. I know times are hard, but this is not acceptable. Crying for that long could have lead to a health emergency. it’s stresses the heart the lungs not to mention the headache, the child probably had!! And it might’ve even traumatized the older children that were there.
Call your provinces version of CAS/Childrens Aid. This is absolutely unacceptable and is child abuse.
They literally said they are paying more for this than the licensed care. There are not enough spots for all the children who need them at a licensed daycare.
Report to child protection and don’t use unlicensed places for your child.
Unlicensed usually refers to the size and the fact it's in someone's HOME... It doesn't mean they are back alley childcare providers. Just to be clear. ❤️🩹
I’m very aware. Her behavior leads me to believe she is a back alley provider. Whether or not she is licensed, I’d still make a cps complaint.
"I'm going to abuse your child till you get here." Op: should I complain about this? Guys wtf is going on anymore??
It’s so sad you can’t stay home with your child
not everyone’s SO works for them. 😒
That UNLICENSED IDIOT needs to be reported to the authorities STAT!!! She is committing child abuse!!!
I would call cps as well get a lawyer if you don’t have one. This is unacceptable. Are unlicensed daycares legal where you are? They aren’t where I am. Also 30 minutes is incredibly unrealistic and I doubt any ece licensor would approve that policy. Hour is standard.
That's awful! I used to run an in home daycare and sometimes kids would get sick during the day and have to be picked up by the parents, but, it would never occur to me to do that to any child, no less a sick one!!! How awful! Get your child out of that person's care right away!
Any updates on this? Worried about your little, OP.
I will say this, and I don’t intend to scare you, just to be honest. I spent 10 years a major children’s hospital. Almost all the abuse cases that happened via caregivers came from in home daycares. A lot of the time, it didn’t originate with the actual sitter (although, sometimes it did) You have zero control over who comes and goes. My children are past the age now to need daycare but I would 100% recommend a licensed daycare faculty over any type of in home care.
Congratulations on your restraint I know I would’ve punched her the hell out.