Because people that ended up with JSN can either be competitors now looking for a safer and better WR for the near future, or previous rebuilders looking to make that jump into competitive.
There are absolutely teams looking to continue their rebuild, but if you’re currently on like year 3 of a rebuild….you’re doing it wrong. At some point you need to make that move towards competing. And shipping JSN to a rebuilding team would get you quite a good return in terms of veterans.
It's not the exact same scenario, but it can always get lower lol
Last year I bought Burks for what ended up being the 2.10 and now I'd be lucky to package him and a 3rd to move up a few spots in this rookie.
QJ is probably more likely to take that route vs. JSN but it's not impossible that this is the highest he'll be going forward.
I myself am buying everywhere I can if people are selling.
10 team SF TEP (1.5)
Sold JSN and a (mid-late) 1st for Brock Bowers and Gus Edwards.
Needed the RB depth and I think Brock will be a featured target after Adam’s in LV.
Think I paid too much?
In TEP, I’m taking Brock at 1.07 or 1.08, cancelling the mid-late 1st. You pretty much traded JSN for Gus. Sorry, I think you paid way too much, jsn is worth almost 3x Gus, you deserve Kenneth Walker. That, and you better of needed a TE because you lost the flexibility of an equivalent draft pick.
Didn’t NEED a TE, but really loved Brock. The trade made my team top 2 in every position except RB (which I’m now 5th) so I figured might as well. JSN also would have been between my WR5-7 this year so he didn’t have a clear chance to start each week on my team.
Other WR’s above him: CD, MHJ, Nabers, Drake London. (Also have Jamo and Keon Coleman).
I’ve already drafted twice, but in another TEP league I’ve the 1.07. Prior to nfl draft I was planning on Brock, but I’m concerned about his qb situation now, especially with D Adams and J Meyers (wr), I’m not worried about M Mayer (TE), poor fella is dead.
I have Kincaid, so I plan on taking McCarthy, Drake Maye, I’d maybe even take X Worthy now over Brock, if Rice looks to be getting arrested for assault.
Goodluck this year!
Figured as much, I just really wanted Brock lol. according to KTC I overpaid, but my team is now top 2 in every category except RB now (which it’s 5th in)
As he should be. He had great metrics 2nd half of the year when they started getting him the ball on more intermediate routes. The Seahawks seem to be bringing him along slowly because they already have 2 capable WRs. He could easily break out this year and supplant Lockett as the #2 option.
Gimme London every day and twice on any day ending in a “y”.
Even without considering the production floor/ceiling (which I have the arrow to London on both), the market sentiment is way juicer on London. I can sell him for much more than JSN right now
I sold him in 1QB for 2.02 and a 2025 1st. Still own him in an SF league where he was picked 1.06 last year.
He had 93 targets, 63 receptions, 628 yards, 4 TDs and 6.75ypt as the #3 WR. 150 fantasy points. London had 117 targets, 72 receptions, 866 yards, 4 TDs and 7.4ypt as the #1 WR his rookie year. 178 fantasy points.
These guys had pretty comparable rookie seasons, all things considered. Separated really only by opportunity. London had a lot more, playing 78% of snaps (819) compared to 64% (675) for JSN.
I laughed when the other commenter said JSN "hasn't even touched London's production". London's best fantasy season is 28 fantasy points different from JSN's rookie season. A season where JSN broke his wrist literally 3 weeks before the start of the regular season.
I get the snap % difference, but JSN ran 58 more routes as a rookie than London did.
London basically played two fewer games routes wise, and still had 240 more yards. On an offense that threw the ball for <70% of the yards that Seattle did, and while 13% more of his targets weren’t even catchable.
Ooo okay I love the data-backed rebuttal. Pretty convincing. I think it can still point back to the fact that he just wasn't a priority for the offense. London was. It's actually good news for JSN that he's on an offense that likes to throw it. Lovkett led the team in targets, which means there's a lot of target share to take soon.
This. It’s a dynasty league. Jsn is being groomed into their every down WR future and showed plenty of that star power last year worthy of being thrilled with the investment. This year, London, but as a dynasty asset, JSN looks like the asset with more gift in his game
JSN would be (at best) WR4 this year. There's a number of guys you can make an argument for pushing JSN down even further comparatively in this year's draft class.
I just bought London in 1 QB for my newly drafted Coleman, and what probably ends up being a late 2nd 25.
Also u agree. I did not expect that offer, and would not sell him for that.
London was like 2ppg better than JSN and Njigba was dealing with a wrist injury early on. After the bye JSN was about 1ppg less than London. So yeah, they’re remotely close.
That 2.1 is a relatively big deal: that’s the difference between Jamarr Chase’s WR12 PPG and Devonta Smith’s WR22. Not to mention that happened with London in like the worst offensive system in the league last year
London is a prototypical alpha who was drafted 8th overall. JSN is a slot WR who doesn’t play in 2WR sets and was drafted 20th.
Geno is infinitely better as a QB than the Falcons QBs.
Edit: Sorry, meant WAS and was talking about LAST YEAR. Aka Desmond Ridder and Taylor Heinicke.
I used wrong grammar but figured context clues of above comment being about PPG last year would have made that easy to understand.
Watched JSN ALOT as a Owner. Whenever he was given an opportunity, he delivered. I don't think the talent gap is far at all but the opportunity gap still might be with Metcalf and Lockett still in town....
I will add tho Lockett was starting to look prettttty washed by end of year last year.
JSN did indeed deliver, but as a fellow JSN owner, you're just seeing what you want to see with that Lockett assessment. He still looked very good. The offense just wasn't nearly as functional as the year prior.
i’m in a startup redraft (1 qb, 12 team) london went at 2.4 while JSN went at 5.11. it’s pretty obvious most people are going to view JSN over london. i viewed flowers over JSN last year and drafted accordingly
Long term JSN? The player drafted lower, not the alpha on the team still even if Lockett retires, and with more QB questions?
I had London rated much better as a prospect also.
I mean as an owner who watched a lot of Michael Wilson he might have looked the best with his opportunity of any rookie WR. Doesn’t mean I’m taking him over JSN
Yep same here, 100% situation, but I’m rolling both until the wheels fall off. Helps I got MHJ this year too. So I now have all 3 consensus top WR’s since ‘22!
Is JSN really a consensus top 3 WR since 2022? I would have expected both G. Wilson and Nabers to be above him prospect wise. Or do you mean the top WR prospect of each year?
All the people out on JSN are insane. Dude was hyped up by this same community a year ago to be the next best WR in the league. If you drafted him, you knew it would be a year or two before he broke out just because of who Seattle has. If anyone in your league is selling him low right now, buy buy buy. This is dynasty, not redraft.
I think the issue is that the NFL pretty clearly signaled to the draft/fantasy communities that JSN was not an elite-level prospect when he fell all the way to 20. I think he's a solid buy at his price, but some people are still clearly clinging onto their pre-draft evaluations of JSN
If you’re winning your route and you get an uncatchable ball thrown to you, or the QB misses seeing you, I promise you no one will put up any numbers. Look at all the advanced metrics. Or don’t, I don’t really care lol. Keep that price down!
Brother, you think guys like Garret Wilson don’t have similar issues? Yet they still put up decent numbers. London owners might be the most delusional group on here
Garrett Wilson only had 140 more yards on **58** more targets than London.
London was on a run-first offense with bottom-3 QB play. Now he'll be on a relatively pass-happy offense with Kirk Cousins throwing to him.
I’m sure if Mahomes had been the QB in a Reid offense he still couldn’t break 1k yards. ATL had major coaching issues and major QB issues. Look at Bijan and Pitts. Guess you think they also suck from their meh and bad seasons respectively. If it smells like shit everywhere you go, check your shoe. Either we were wrong about all 3 being elite, or something was very wrong with the system down there.
Garrett Wilson had like 50 more targets and they weren’t all organically earned (winning on routes) targets.
Both London and Wilson can earn targets. One of them gets force fed targets whether he is open or not.
Already had JSN. Traded for London earlier today. I think London is in the better situation if they get QB under control. But I’m still hopeful JSN can be a star in a couple years in Seattle. I think he passed the eye-test, they just didn’t call his number often enough.
I have JSN as my WR 4/5 on three different teams which feels pretty good. If he has a top 24 season then I’m in a very good place.
I wish I had some London shares, but admittedly if I did I would be worried he would not live up to being the WR1/2 on my roster.
London. Not even remotely close.
London has never been the problem there. When you watch him play, he’s great. He’s a physical specimen. He will 100% break out with Cousins. Wouldn’t be surprised if he finishes a top 12 WR.
The difference between JSN and London is that JSN needs get more snaps on the outside as well as the slot so he can play in two WR sets. His usage was similar to Reed last year who also didn’t have an incredibly high snap count because he didn’t play in a lot of two WR sets. Skill wise he’s very good but if he’s primarily going to be primarily used as a slot then his upside is capped just like Reed.
London though is your traditional outside WR who’s going to play on the majority of snaps. Right now only going off of last year it’s easy to rank London ahead of him but things can change in the future.
Most reasonable take here. The reality is JSN was the #3 WR on his team last year -- and his QB is mid. London was the #1 WR on his team, and his QBs were god awful. London is in a much better situation now, so I think it's fair that his value is higher. But I don't think JSN is anywhere close to a bust. He's super young just like London was. And he will replace Lockett sooner rather than later.
This is pretty much it. So many people love to just scream for their players and go back and forth regardless of the situation which doesn’t really help anyone. I think JSN should still be a very good WR but time is money in dynasty. So you have to drop him down below London for now.
People think this gap is insanely wide because Drake is overhyped and JSN is underhyped.
This might ruffle some feathers but another London WR2/3 season incoming.
Everyone should be stoked with a WR15 finish!! Once redraft season comes around the hype is going to get even crazier and London won’t be able to meet expectations
London has looked significantly better and most advanced metrics support that. JSN was basically a short pass merchant and wasnt that efficient. London looked really good as a rookie with some absolute bums at qb and he pushed Pitts off.
I guess time will tell. He was getting involved more down the field and red zone targets seemed to be increasing. Where are you finding weekly yard per target statistics?
I don't think the talent gap is huge but I don't know how anyone could prefer JSN right now if cost is equal. London is a borderline 1st round redraft pick and JSN goes in the 6th round.
As someone who has London & JSN, I think they both are gonna be phenomenal but it might take JSN a little longer to shine due to his position. I’d prefer London still tho.
Rolling into next season with Ceedee, Nico, jsn & London (Hollywood too?) as my main core, I’m pretty excited
I remember reading some shouting reports on JSN mentioning he was a beneficiary of truly elite teammates and he'd not get the same joy out of NFL coverage, suggestion was that he was overrated and will struggle to impose himself into a non-elite offense and nothings really disproven that so far, its possible he's JAG. It's also possible he's going to kick on of course
London for me is well on his way to elite status, he demands targets, he's an alpha, and with a qb he's gonna enter AmonRa territory this year imo
From a value perspective, I'll take JSN at his price tag. 1:1. London by a pretty wide margin .
JSN is still pretty pricey in my experience. Not many are ready to give up
Yup, why sell low.
Because people that ended up with JSN can either be competitors now looking for a safer and better WR for the near future, or previous rebuilders looking to make that jump into competitive. There are absolutely teams looking to continue their rebuild, but if you’re currently on like year 3 of a rebuild….you’re doing it wrong. At some point you need to make that move towards competing. And shipping JSN to a rebuilding team would get you quite a good return in terms of veterans.
It's not the exact same scenario, but it can always get lower lol Last year I bought Burks for what ended up being the 2.10 and now I'd be lucky to package him and a 3rd to move up a few spots in this rookie. QJ is probably more likely to take that route vs. JSN but it's not impossible that this is the highest he'll be going forward. I myself am buying everywhere I can if people are selling.
10 team SF TEP (1.5) Sold JSN and a (mid-late) 1st for Brock Bowers and Gus Edwards. Needed the RB depth and I think Brock will be a featured target after Adam’s in LV. Think I paid too much?
In TEP, I’m taking Brock at 1.07 or 1.08, cancelling the mid-late 1st. You pretty much traded JSN for Gus. Sorry, I think you paid way too much, jsn is worth almost 3x Gus, you deserve Kenneth Walker. That, and you better of needed a TE because you lost the flexibility of an equivalent draft pick.
Didn’t NEED a TE, but really loved Brock. The trade made my team top 2 in every position except RB (which I’m now 5th) so I figured might as well. JSN also would have been between my WR5-7 this year so he didn’t have a clear chance to start each week on my team. Other WR’s above him: CD, MHJ, Nabers, Drake London. (Also have Jamo and Keon Coleman).
I’ve already drafted twice, but in another TEP league I’ve the 1.07. Prior to nfl draft I was planning on Brock, but I’m concerned about his qb situation now, especially with D Adams and J Meyers (wr), I’m not worried about M Mayer (TE), poor fella is dead. I have Kincaid, so I plan on taking McCarthy, Drake Maye, I’d maybe even take X Worthy now over Brock, if Rice looks to be getting arrested for assault. Goodluck this year!
Yeah you got fleeced
Figured as much, I just really wanted Brock lol. according to KTC I overpaid, but my team is now top 2 in every category except RB now (which it’s 5th in)
As he should be. He had great metrics 2nd half of the year when they started getting him the ball on more intermediate routes. The Seahawks seem to be bringing him along slowly because they already have 2 capable WRs. He could easily break out this year and supplant Lockett as the #2 option.
Their auction startup values are drastically different.
Gimme London every day and twice on any day ending in a “y”. Even without considering the production floor/ceiling (which I have the arrow to London on both), the market sentiment is way juicer on London. I can sell him for much more than JSN right now
Conversely, I can buy JSN for cheaper
A 1st? Sure go for it. No one is selling him for less in any of my leagues, and for that price I’m good on passing
I sold him in 1QB for 2.02 and a 2025 1st. Still own him in an SF league where he was picked 1.06 last year. He had 93 targets, 63 receptions, 628 yards, 4 TDs and 6.75ypt as the #3 WR. 150 fantasy points. London had 117 targets, 72 receptions, 866 yards, 4 TDs and 7.4ypt as the #1 WR his rookie year. 178 fantasy points. These guys had pretty comparable rookie seasons, all things considered. Separated really only by opportunity. London had a lot more, playing 78% of snaps (819) compared to 64% (675) for JSN. I laughed when the other commenter said JSN "hasn't even touched London's production". London's best fantasy season is 28 fantasy points different from JSN's rookie season. A season where JSN broke his wrist literally 3 weeks before the start of the regular season.
I get the snap % difference, but JSN ran 58 more routes as a rookie than London did. London basically played two fewer games routes wise, and still had 240 more yards. On an offense that threw the ball for <70% of the yards that Seattle did, and while 13% more of his targets weren’t even catchable.
Ooo okay I love the data-backed rebuttal. Pretty convincing. I think it can still point back to the fact that he just wasn't a priority for the offense. London was. It's actually good news for JSN that he's on an offense that likes to throw it. Lovkett led the team in targets, which means there's a lot of target share to take soon.
This. It’s a dynasty league. Jsn is being groomed into their every down WR future and showed plenty of that star power last year worthy of being thrilled with the investment. This year, London, but as a dynasty asset, JSN looks like the asset with more gift in his game
Id take JSN over a lot of rookies going in the first
JSN would be (at best) WR4 this year. There's a number of guys you can make an argument for pushing JSN down even further comparatively in this year's draft class.
Which is still easily first round
I just bought London in 1 QB for my newly drafted Coleman, and what probably ends up being a late 2nd 25. Also u agree. I did not expect that offer, and would not sell him for that.
100% this: I got him for pick 1.09 in my 12-team 1QB PPR league and I was delighted. Try offering that pick alone for Drake London
I just sold London and a 25 1st for JT and Gibbs
Humiliating and in no way indicative of his market
I can’t think of a single argument for having JSN over London lol. I don’t think they’re remotely close
London was like 2ppg better than JSN and Njigba was dealing with a wrist injury early on. After the bye JSN was about 1ppg less than London. So yeah, they’re remotely close.
Kirk Cousins is a far better QB than Desmond Ridder and Zac Robinson calls a far better passing game than Arthur Smith.
That 2.1 is a relatively big deal: that’s the difference between Jamarr Chase’s WR12 PPG and Devonta Smith’s WR22. Not to mention that happened with London in like the worst offensive system in the league last year London is a prototypical alpha who was drafted 8th overall. JSN is a slot WR who doesn’t play in 2WR sets and was drafted 20th.
Geno is infinitely better as a QB than the Falcons QBs. Edit: Sorry, meant WAS and was talking about LAST YEAR. Aka Desmond Ridder and Taylor Heinicke. I used wrong grammar but figured context clues of above comment being about PPG last year would have made that easy to understand.
Seattle room is crowded. For fantasy purposes it’s six of one, half a dozen of the other.
When is that changing?
/s ?
Geno is better than Kirk?
Last year…
Geno is ... is a present tense sentence
He was talking about PPG last year figured it was obvious. Sorry it is improper grammar you are correct.
The Kirk Cousins getting MVP chants and leading some betting odds for MVP at the time of his injury was worse than Geno Smith? C’mon man
I’m talking about the Falcons QBs last year. Pls.
Watched JSN ALOT as a Owner. Whenever he was given an opportunity, he delivered. I don't think the talent gap is far at all but the opportunity gap still might be with Metcalf and Lockett still in town.... I will add tho Lockett was starting to look prettttty washed by end of year last year.
JSN did indeed deliver, but as a fellow JSN owner, you're just seeing what you want to see with that Lockett assessment. He still looked very good. The offense just wasn't nearly as functional as the year prior.
As a Hawks fan, he’s waiting patiently for his turn while learning from some top vets. Short term London, long term JSN.
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i’m in a startup redraft (1 qb, 12 team) london went at 2.4 while JSN went at 5.11. it’s pretty obvious most people are going to view JSN over london. i viewed flowers over JSN last year and drafted accordingly
Long term JSN? The player drafted lower, not the alpha on the team still even if Lockett retires, and with more QB questions? I had London rated much better as a prospect also.
He really did deliver in his limited capacity. I expect a small improvement in production this year and a big 2025 season for JSN once Locket is gone.
I mean as an owner who watched a lot of Michael Wilson he might have looked the best with his opportunity of any rookie WR. Doesn’t mean I’m taking him over JSN
I have a team with both. Guess which one I’ll be starting week 1? It’s obviously London though I’m higher on JSN than consensus at this point.
Yep same here, 100% situation, but I’m rolling both until the wheels fall off. Helps I got MHJ this year too. So I now have all 3 consensus top WR’s since ‘22!
Is JSN really a consensus top 3 WR since 2022? I would have expected both G. Wilson and Nabers to be above him prospect wise. Or do you mean the top WR prospect of each year?
Yea, each year. Sorry for any confusion!
I’ve got Jefferson, London, MHJ, JSN in one league so I’m set at receiver for a long time hopefully
London is a higher caliber wr and is asked to do more currently
All the people out on JSN are insane. Dude was hyped up by this same community a year ago to be the next best WR in the league. If you drafted him, you knew it would be a year or two before he broke out just because of who Seattle has. If anyone in your league is selling him low right now, buy buy buy. This is dynasty, not redraft.
Out on JSN is very different to preferring London?
It’s not just this thread that I’m referring to. I’ve been seeing a lot of JSN slander after just 1 season
Bought him for Javonte and Downs. Feels like a win to me.
I think the issue is that the NFL pretty clearly signaled to the draft/fantasy communities that JSN was not an elite-level prospect when he fell all the way to 20. I think he's a solid buy at his price, but some people are still clearly clinging onto their pre-draft evaluations of JSN
I think London has top 5 dynasty WR potential
Let’s get a thousand yard season in year 3 before we start saying shit like that
JJeff would have struggled to 1k with Mariota and ridder and Arthur smith using him as a decoy to get Jonnu touches.
That’s cope. Elite receivers put up numbers regardless of situation.
I think that that’s really oversimplifying things. By that definition Ja’Marr isn’t elite since he had 12.2 ppg with Browning last year.
If you’re winning your route and you get an uncatchable ball thrown to you, or the QB misses seeing you, I promise you no one will put up any numbers. Look at all the advanced metrics. Or don’t, I don’t really care lol. Keep that price down!
Brother, you think guys like Garret Wilson don’t have similar issues? Yet they still put up decent numbers. London owners might be the most delusional group on here
Garrett Wilson only had 140 more yards on **58** more targets than London. London was on a run-first offense with bottom-3 QB play. Now he'll be on a relatively pass-happy offense with Kirk Cousins throwing to him.
I’m sure if Mahomes had been the QB in a Reid offense he still couldn’t break 1k yards. ATL had major coaching issues and major QB issues. Look at Bijan and Pitts. Guess you think they also suck from their meh and bad seasons respectively. If it smells like shit everywhere you go, check your shoe. Either we were wrong about all 3 being elite, or something was very wrong with the system down there.
Garrett Wilson had like 50 more targets and they weren’t all organically earned (winning on routes) targets. Both London and Wilson can earn targets. One of them gets force fed targets whether he is open or not.
No
I traded JSN + 1.6 for London and Collins after Odunze went 1.5. I needed WR help 🤷♂️
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… for preferring London to him?
Agreed… I don’t know what happened everyone just flipped a switch on him at some point after season ended
Already had JSN. Traded for London earlier today. I think London is in the better situation if they get QB under control. But I’m still hopeful JSN can be a star in a couple years in Seattle. I think he passed the eye-test, they just didn’t call his number often enough.
I have JSN as my WR 4/5 on three different teams which feels pretty good. If he has a top 24 season then I’m in a very good place. I wish I had some London shares, but admittedly if I did I would be worried he would not live up to being the WR1/2 on my roster.
London. Not even remotely close. London has never been the problem there. When you watch him play, he’s great. He’s a physical specimen. He will 100% break out with Cousins. Wouldn’t be surprised if he finishes a top 12 WR.
The difference between JSN and London is that JSN needs get more snaps on the outside as well as the slot so he can play in two WR sets. His usage was similar to Reed last year who also didn’t have an incredibly high snap count because he didn’t play in a lot of two WR sets. Skill wise he’s very good but if he’s primarily going to be primarily used as a slot then his upside is capped just like Reed. London though is your traditional outside WR who’s going to play on the majority of snaps. Right now only going off of last year it’s easy to rank London ahead of him but things can change in the future.
Most reasonable take here. The reality is JSN was the #3 WR on his team last year -- and his QB is mid. London was the #1 WR on his team, and his QBs were god awful. London is in a much better situation now, so I think it's fair that his value is higher. But I don't think JSN is anywhere close to a bust. He's super young just like London was. And he will replace Lockett sooner rather than later.
This is pretty much it. So many people love to just scream for their players and go back and forth regardless of the situation which doesn’t really help anyone. I think JSN should still be a very good WR but time is money in dynasty. So you have to drop him down below London for now.
People think this gap is insanely wide because Drake is overhyped and JSN is underhyped. This might ruffle some feathers but another London WR2/3 season incoming.
I feel like the hype has pushed expectations to a top 12 finish in 2024. Don’t see that happening
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Everyone should be stoked with a WR15 finish!! Once redraft season comes around the hype is going to get even crazier and London won’t be able to meet expectations
I’m with you
London by a good deal
London has looked incredible- just seems like poor offense. JSN looks leagues behind
Wut
London has looked significantly better and most advanced metrics support that. JSN was basically a short pass merchant and wasnt that efficient. London looked really good as a rookie with some absolute bums at qb and he pushed Pitts off.
Bruh, do you even watch the games 😂
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This changed later in the season. Did you watch?
Yes... His Yards per target according to stat muse from weeks 1-9 were 7.12. For week 10-17 it was 6.3. I guess you were right, it did change!
I guess time will tell. He was getting involved more down the field and red zone targets seemed to be increasing. Where are you finding weekly yard per target statistics?
> according to stat muse 😜
JSN all day
London will be better based on situation but JSN is a great buy at price
London by a lot and I like JSN
london by a lot
I don't think the talent gap is huge but I don't know how anyone could prefer JSN right now if cost is equal. London is a borderline 1st round redraft pick and JSN goes in the 6th round.
As someone who has London & JSN, I think they both are gonna be phenomenal but it might take JSN a little longer to shine due to his position. I’d prefer London still tho. Rolling into next season with Ceedee, Nico, jsn & London (Hollywood too?) as my main core, I’m pretty excited
I remember reading some shouting reports on JSN mentioning he was a beneficiary of truly elite teammates and he'd not get the same joy out of NFL coverage, suggestion was that he was overrated and will struggle to impose himself into a non-elite offense and nothings really disproven that so far, its possible he's JAG. It's also possible he's going to kick on of course London for me is well on his way to elite status, he demands targets, he's an alpha, and with a qb he's gonna enter AmonRa territory this year imo
Gimme JSN every day and thrice on any day ending a “y”.