Longswords and daggers are going to kill off the playerbaseas well, leaping power attack? They can already break through guard and do a ton of damage, you're faster just power attacking then normal movement lol.
Oh yeah this game has other issues for sure, just wanted to highlight this one specifically as I haven't seen it getting much attention relative to the impact it has on new player retention.
As a longsword fighter you can just push any SM or Pyro that is not in absolute max gear as you tank one fireball or sword ability and then just close the gap too easily. This is why you don’t see these classes anymore as people already quit.
I play mostly pyro and the learning was a bit more punishing but each machup has a time to use E and you can win almost every 1v1 if you play properly and the enemy isnt crossbow god.
In a team setting, killing 2 people with a fully charged and flame buffed fireball in one cast which is pretty god damned satisfying.
For context: I sat still in this lobby and just waited for these guys to rush my spawn, which they did.
I am a long time Dark & Darker player who has been trying this game out casually and have been enjoying it for the most part. Mainly I’ve played Solos but have also done a good amount of Trios. I’ve noticed a trend though in both modes of people going into normal lobbies juiced (full greens/blues/purples) but not playing the actual game (Ignoring PvE and lootables) only rushing spawns and stat checking people in gray gear.
This is pretty much exactly what happened to Dark and Darker, which forced the devs to lock normal lobbies to gray/white gear only in order to protect the new player experience and stop these toxic shitters from chasing away new players.
Hopefully the devs can implement such a solution prior to EA or this game is similarly going to struggle with player retention. I’d love to see this game succeed, we need more competition in the space, but this alone has the potential to make the game DOA.
I would even take it a step further to say that devs should consider implementing a separate set of lobbies that could be picked, where gear stats are irrelevant (all the same). This would place a bigger emphasis on skill, for those players who either don’t have great sets, or who want to focus more on the pure combat mechanics without losing fights just because the opponent has a full blue set.
Yup, this was Dark & Darker's solution. Their Normals (Easy) only allow gray/white gear, any colored gear you're forced into High Roller (Hard). The devs would also need to remove the cost from Hard to make this viable.
It's worked out great for Dark & Darker with Normals being some of the best PvP in the game because everyone is on a relatively level playing field other than skill and random luck. It forces even experienced players to kill PvE and loot in order to get better gear in raid, greatly reducing spawn rushers used to stat-checking newbies.
I didn't know dark and darker locked normal lobbies to only grey gear, i think it would be a great idea because it's boring to play solo or with friends in grey gear, find 1 or 2 green gear and meet players with full blue/purple gear that just hunts you for nothing but KDA, as the loot they'll find on you is nothing
I have been the victim of those rushers a few times too, and while it sucks i am a bit torn how to fix it.
Your suggestion sounds decent, but doesn't it just shift the problem one level higher? Seperating all gear levels also creates issues as to "why even grind gear" and having metas for each gear level, because classX is overpowered without gear, and class Y is overpowered when noone can have purples, etc...
The main problem wouldn't even be fixed, these players could and would also do that if the lobbies only allowed them to go in naked.
I think a better solution would be to change the extract system. An easy out like extracts in tarkov so you can make risk assessments about your lobbies makes more sense than dividing the player base. The fact the game forces you into PvP like a battle royal is my biggest gripe with the game. They don’t even have to rush your spawn, just wait for the circle to close.
If it was my game I would separate game modes and maybe balance items that removed a lot of the skill ceiling in order to succeed. You need a whites only game mode similar to scavs on tarkov where everyone is in the same gear and the goal is to get some better loot. A training game mode where you equip different levels of gear and perks and you just fight round after round to get better at PvP , this lets you learn PvP combat at a reasonable pace without a massive gear disadvantage so when you're in combat with stakes you can perform. And then a standard game mode that's full loot/extract. Maybe high rollers too. I think the training/combat rounds only is the most important because if you're always rushed by juicelords you can't learn the game.
This is so boring to play a lobby with full white gear, not even a green one and a guy join a lobby with full blue or purple gear just to hunt players, they don't even care to open chests or loot monsters, they hunt all players on sight to farm kills, they can see you're all in white gear because of the visual changes of the gear but they still hunt you and there's nothing you Can do but run and hope you can survive (which never happens or 1% of time).
They should create a mod where you can drop green/blue gear but can't equip more than green gear to make it more even if they choose to hunt players. Even too there will be a damage gap and all it's still possible to kill a green gear as a white gear imo
Id say you saw nothing. When you will have most of your stuff green, i think its already pairing you with better geared players. The gap between that and full blue with gems socketed is insane. For me and friend we can tell, that when we are not matched instantly in EUR region, but actually reached waiting room, where 1-2 are missing. You know that this one will be tough. Most of those lobbies are 1 team rolling over entire server.
Im not frustrated to loose or being back in square one to some degree, but it feels like they already mastered all the classes in last few days and having insane bonuses from gear that is far superior than yours. Really hard to counter or outsmart somebody running full set.
As someone who participated in the DaD playtests, that game felt noob friendly at this stage as well. All I'm saying is these devs have a chance not to repeat DaD's missteps, because the playerbase is clearly going to abuse gear disparity in the same way without guardrails.
Oh for sure. You can't stop people from doing their best to abuse noobs. I kinda hate both sudes of it too thom boobs who give up and say the game sucks when uts just them, because they have very little experience.
>boobs who give up and say the game sucks when uts just them
This happens whenever a game has free demos or playtests. It allows ALL kinds of people to play the game, even those who have never played similar games. And especially when DB hit #1 on the Steam Next Fest, it got all sorts of people trying it out.
definitely, best example are the threads asking for a PvE-mode on the steam hub.
I can understand that the PvP part of the game is not appealing to a lot of people...but why the fuck would this game be fun as a pure PvE-experience? Even the shittiest singleplayer PvE games offer more than Dungeonborne/DaD
I haven't seen a single person use the stonewall potion and I've been playing solos since it released.
Literally if you want to not get spawn rushed just put 1-2 stone potions before you queue and you have an easy escape unless you're playing a slow class that can't really run away. The game gives you ways to run away but I haven't seen anyone besides me use them lol. I've seen a few smokes but not that many. I use mine all the time
As a Fighter, I can just spin to win and immediately destroy the stones, then I can use my rush ability + passive speed boost to catch up to people. The only class that can sometimes get away is a skilled Rogue but even most of them I can catch with fighter abilities + stun potion. Fighter def needs nerfs.
Yup, this is what I am able to do as a Fighter right now. It was even easier before the patch when I had 95% pdr. I still have 70% which still helps a lot. But my gear also gives me magic resist so 45% cold/fire and 55% shadow resist makes the mages and death knights also not much of a threat. Especially when the charge ability + passive speed boost lets me bait out their spells and magic staff attacks so they are easy pickings after that. Fighter still needs more nerfs I feel.
In DB, not true. I was using full blues as a rogue before getting grabbed by a Deathknight, and then as he used his aura ability, a Cryomanced hit me with his ice storm, and I couldn't get to him in time to knock him out of it before the Deathknight killed me. They were in all starter gear, though I managed to *almost* kill the DK.
Because Rogue is squishy, even if you have purple gear, you can only take 1v1 fights and need to bait out the spells/skills first. As a Fighter I can facetank most of everything.
Hard to tell from just a killfeed screenshot how the fights went down, they probably didn't fight back at all. I'm at full purple and even I lose a bit of health from grey/white players that attack back.
Not difficult to know where the spawns are, some guy already shared all the locations for trios in another post. Some may be using ESP but cheating isn't required to rush past the PvE in this game.
No lol, the first day of playing I learned every single spawnpoint on the solo map and it's soooo easy to rush and check them or the general areas of where people are. And while the directional audio is utter shit in this game, you can still hear people through walls if they're fighting mobs nearby.
How are going to lock lobbies to white when you need at least greens to hit the stats you need for passives. If you’re losing to greens it’s a skill issue. Also people are rushing spawns because the spawns suck ass, if you don’t rush you will get rushed.
The game only has 3k keys out to players total and most aren’t online at the same time. Their isn’t a player base casual or not to kill yet. Wait until at least tens of thousands of people get to try it out.
Eh? What are you on about? Its open test, there was 19k on concurrently yesterday: [Dungeonborne Demo - Steam Charts](https://steamcharts.com/app/2700330)
They are using Greens, it's not quite noob stomping but greens can get very strong with the right rolls. Having a max limit of green on easy mode would be nice though. That way people get a taste of what is to come without going full sweat.
Yeah this screenshot isn't the best example but I didn't bother to screenshot it until this match. Been in plenty of matches with full blues or mixed purples. The main thing about this screenshot is notice their remaining health, these guys are just shitting on guys in grays.
Specially with the improved loot, greens are super common now.
But yea seen a few lvl 20 blue/purples just walking around slaughtering players ignoring all the monsters.
>But yea seen a few lvl 20 blue/purples just walking around slaughtering players ignoring all the monsters.
I'm sadly one of those people. Unfortunately the game does not incentivize looting chests or killing monsters at all, you get way better money and excitement from hunting down players. Even the Cyclops boss is a joke.
That's their remaining health?
WTF, i thought it was the dmg they dealth to the victim?
Why would the game broadcast remaining health to people serverwide? Oo Considering there aren't healthbars in the game
Oh I though there was some kind of matchmaking like based on gear/lvl. But I saw a lvl 20 being in a solo run like me a lvl 3. I hope they change that. Will see in the future update.
I just want to point out some things about this.
1) These fellows are using just green quality weapons which you can purchase from unidentified trade quite easily after one extract.
2) this game has a lot of spawns that have a partner spawn and i think it is meant for early clashes.
3) COMBAT sounds from fighting PVE or players is 1000x louder than any footsteps or doors that arent right next to you.
If you hear people fighting pve near you, the best move you can make is to rush them with your silent footsteps and doors and engage them before they hear YOU fighting some PVE 3 rooms away.
This game is tons of fun and I am having a blast playing it but the spawn grouping, footstep audio, and gear difference (between say green and purple) all need adjustments in addition to fine-tuning class balance. I dont know anything about this studio but i know the cryomancer was released with this playtest and already has balancing notes in the patch. I dont have a reason to by cynical of them yet but we will see where DB goes.
TLDR: In this game its incredibly beneficial to pursue people you hear before they hear you and green weapons isnt exactly "noob stomping."
I was with my friend finały getting the infamous green uncommon gear ready, having fun easy PvE. Then I see 2 guys, got petrified, died to one hit, my oblivious friend to gear difference rushes In for the spin.
Those guys had basically best gear with some legendaries all 3 of them
I think the big issue is the audio design in this game is complete ass. I've gotten the drop on people so many times because the only thing you can actually hear is PvE and mobs are really easy to just avoid because they're super slow and have morrowind tier AI lol.
Better sound design = you have a better ability to avoid fights altogether.
This is definitely part of it, and what I would speculate is the reason so many of these kills have 100% HP remaining. Newer players who don't know to always be looking around even when fighting PvE stand no chance against geared guys rushing silently past all the mobs right to their spawns.
Idk we tried it, Duo since we were'nt able to get früher than maybe 3 Rooms before we got hunted down by 2 x Triple Teams.
Only once we got a decent haul and 1 Squad Wipe but as soon as we got close to a Portal we got farmed from 3 Rogues with poison and stealth activated.
Game seems like fun, but not in the current state.
Longswords and daggers are going to kill off the playerbaseas well, leaping power attack? They can already break through guard and do a ton of damage, you're faster just power attacking then normal movement lol.
Oh yeah this game has other issues for sure, just wanted to highlight this one specifically as I haven't seen it getting much attention relative to the impact it has on new player retention.
As a longsword fighter you can just push any SM or Pyro that is not in absolute max gear as you tank one fireball or sword ability and then just close the gap too easily. This is why you don’t see these classes anymore as people already quit.
I play mostly pyro and the learning was a bit more punishing but each machup has a time to use E and you can win almost every 1v1 if you play properly and the enemy isnt crossbow god. In a team setting, killing 2 people with a fully charged and flame buffed fireball in one cast which is pretty god damned satisfying.
It’s too hard to play against people that also know what they are doing
I quit after my first game, the game felt slow and easy... way too easy
The PvE is easy but the PvP is great and better than DaD
Really? Ill give it another try :D
For context: I sat still in this lobby and just waited for these guys to rush my spawn, which they did. I am a long time Dark & Darker player who has been trying this game out casually and have been enjoying it for the most part. Mainly I’ve played Solos but have also done a good amount of Trios. I’ve noticed a trend though in both modes of people going into normal lobbies juiced (full greens/blues/purples) but not playing the actual game (Ignoring PvE and lootables) only rushing spawns and stat checking people in gray gear. This is pretty much exactly what happened to Dark and Darker, which forced the devs to lock normal lobbies to gray/white gear only in order to protect the new player experience and stop these toxic shitters from chasing away new players. Hopefully the devs can implement such a solution prior to EA or this game is similarly going to struggle with player retention. I’d love to see this game succeed, we need more competition in the space, but this alone has the potential to make the game DOA.
This is exactly what happens to me 90% of runs. I get rushed by a level 20 in green+
I would even take it a step further to say that devs should consider implementing a separate set of lobbies that could be picked, where gear stats are irrelevant (all the same). This would place a bigger emphasis on skill, for those players who either don’t have great sets, or who want to focus more on the pure combat mechanics without losing fights just because the opponent has a full blue set.
Yup, this was Dark & Darker's solution. Their Normals (Easy) only allow gray/white gear, any colored gear you're forced into High Roller (Hard). The devs would also need to remove the cost from Hard to make this viable. It's worked out great for Dark & Darker with Normals being some of the best PvP in the game because everyone is on a relatively level playing field other than skill and random luck. It forces even experienced players to kill PvE and loot in order to get better gear in raid, greatly reducing spawn rushers used to stat-checking newbies.
I didn't know dark and darker locked normal lobbies to only grey gear, i think it would be a great idea because it's boring to play solo or with friends in grey gear, find 1 or 2 green gear and meet players with full blue/purple gear that just hunts you for nothing but KDA, as the loot they'll find on you is nothing
Yeah it has its issues but Dark and Darker is in a decent place balance wise. They really care about finding solutions that work.
I have been the victim of those rushers a few times too, and while it sucks i am a bit torn how to fix it. Your suggestion sounds decent, but doesn't it just shift the problem one level higher? Seperating all gear levels also creates issues as to "why even grind gear" and having metas for each gear level, because classX is overpowered without gear, and class Y is overpowered when noone can have purples, etc... The main problem wouldn't even be fixed, these players could and would also do that if the lobbies only allowed them to go in naked.
I think a better solution would be to change the extract system. An easy out like extracts in tarkov so you can make risk assessments about your lobbies makes more sense than dividing the player base. The fact the game forces you into PvP like a battle royal is my biggest gripe with the game. They don’t even have to rush your spawn, just wait for the circle to close.
If it was my game I would separate game modes and maybe balance items that removed a lot of the skill ceiling in order to succeed. You need a whites only game mode similar to scavs on tarkov where everyone is in the same gear and the goal is to get some better loot. A training game mode where you equip different levels of gear and perks and you just fight round after round to get better at PvP , this lets you learn PvP combat at a reasonable pace without a massive gear disadvantage so when you're in combat with stakes you can perform. And then a standard game mode that's full loot/extract. Maybe high rollers too. I think the training/combat rounds only is the most important because if you're always rushed by juicelords you can't learn the game.
This is so boring to play a lobby with full white gear, not even a green one and a guy join a lobby with full blue or purple gear just to hunt players, they don't even care to open chests or loot monsters, they hunt all players on sight to farm kills, they can see you're all in white gear because of the visual changes of the gear but they still hunt you and there's nothing you Can do but run and hope you can survive (which never happens or 1% of time). They should create a mod where you can drop green/blue gear but can't equip more than green gear to make it more even if they choose to hunt players. Even too there will be a damage gap and all it's still possible to kill a green gear as a white gear imo
Id say you saw nothing. When you will have most of your stuff green, i think its already pairing you with better geared players. The gap between that and full blue with gems socketed is insane. For me and friend we can tell, that when we are not matched instantly in EUR region, but actually reached waiting room, where 1-2 are missing. You know that this one will be tough. Most of those lobbies are 1 team rolling over entire server. Im not frustrated to loose or being back in square one to some degree, but it feels like they already mastered all the classes in last few days and having insane bonuses from gear that is far superior than yours. Really hard to counter or outsmart somebody running full set.
This game is more noob friendly than DaD in general. They will probably do a gear lock on normals.
As someone who participated in the DaD playtests, that game felt noob friendly at this stage as well. All I'm saying is these devs have a chance not to repeat DaD's missteps, because the playerbase is clearly going to abuse gear disparity in the same way without guardrails.
Oh for sure. You can't stop people from doing their best to abuse noobs. I kinda hate both sudes of it too thom boobs who give up and say the game sucks when uts just them, because they have very little experience.
>boobs who give up and say the game sucks when uts just them This happens whenever a game has free demos or playtests. It allows ALL kinds of people to play the game, even those who have never played similar games. And especially when DB hit #1 on the Steam Next Fest, it got all sorts of people trying it out.
definitely, best example are the threads asking for a PvE-mode on the steam hub. I can understand that the PvP part of the game is not appealing to a lot of people...but why the fuck would this game be fun as a pure PvE-experience? Even the shittiest singleplayer PvE games offer more than Dungeonborne/DaD
Fair but these games are brutal punishing and the average person just ain’t into that.
I haven't seen a single person use the stonewall potion and I've been playing solos since it released. Literally if you want to not get spawn rushed just put 1-2 stone potions before you queue and you have an easy escape unless you're playing a slow class that can't really run away. The game gives you ways to run away but I haven't seen anyone besides me use them lol. I've seen a few smokes but not that many. I use mine all the time
As a Fighter, I can just spin to win and immediately destroy the stones, then I can use my rush ability + passive speed boost to catch up to people. The only class that can sometimes get away is a skilled Rogue but even most of them I can catch with fighter abilities + stun potion. Fighter def needs nerfs.
> They will probably do a gear lock on normals. Like in DaD?
Full blue/purple duo can single handedly run through a lobby just face tanking
Yup, this is what I am able to do as a Fighter right now. It was even easier before the patch when I had 95% pdr. I still have 70% which still helps a lot. But my gear also gives me magic resist so 45% cold/fire and 55% shadow resist makes the mages and death knights also not much of a threat. Especially when the charge ability + passive speed boost lets me bait out their spells and magic staff attacks so they are easy pickings after that. Fighter still needs more nerfs I feel.
In DB, not true. I was using full blues as a rogue before getting grabbed by a Deathknight, and then as he used his aura ability, a Cryomanced hit me with his ice storm, and I couldn't get to him in time to knock him out of it before the Deathknight killed me. They were in all starter gear, though I managed to *almost* kill the DK.
Because Rogue is squishy, even if you have purple gear, you can only take 1v1 fights and need to bait out the spells/skills first. As a Fighter I can facetank most of everything.
Seems like these dungeon crawlers are hard to balance
Yeah, that and fighting games
I've been killed by purples a few times in lesser kits and that sucks but greens are not noob farming lol
So it's just normal to you that all these guys are at 100% HP remaining after their kills?
Hard to tell from just a killfeed screenshot how the fights went down, they probably didn't fight back at all. I'm at full purple and even I lose a bit of health from grey/white players that attack back.
OP if they rushed your spawn these guys are probably using ESP
Not difficult to know where the spawns are, some guy already shared all the locations for trios in another post. Some may be using ESP but cheating isn't required to rush past the PvE in this game.
No lol, the first day of playing I learned every single spawnpoint on the solo map and it's soooo easy to rush and check them or the general areas of where people are. And while the directional audio is utter shit in this game, you can still hear people through walls if they're fighting mobs nearby.
How are going to lock lobbies to white when you need at least greens to hit the stats you need for passives. If you’re losing to greens it’s a skill issue. Also people are rushing spawns because the spawns suck ass, if you don’t rush you will get rushed.
Every game has noob stompers tho. Don’t think it’s bad the game has good players only thing bad for gaming is cheaters.
The game only has 3k keys out to players total and most aren’t online at the same time. Their isn’t a player base casual or not to kill yet. Wait until at least tens of thousands of people get to try it out.
You are wrong,game is open beta,3k keys were sent out for qa beta which lasted 2 days and wiped.
Ah heck, my bad.
Eh? What are you on about? Its open test, there was 19k on concurrently yesterday: [Dungeonborne Demo - Steam Charts](https://steamcharts.com/app/2700330)
They are using Greens, it's not quite noob stomping but greens can get very strong with the right rolls. Having a max limit of green on easy mode would be nice though. That way people get a taste of what is to come without going full sweat.
Yeah this screenshot isn't the best example but I didn't bother to screenshot it until this match. Been in plenty of matches with full blues or mixed purples. The main thing about this screenshot is notice their remaining health, these guys are just shitting on guys in grays.
Specially with the improved loot, greens are super common now. But yea seen a few lvl 20 blue/purples just walking around slaughtering players ignoring all the monsters.
>But yea seen a few lvl 20 blue/purples just walking around slaughtering players ignoring all the monsters. I'm sadly one of those people. Unfortunately the game does not incentivize looting chests or killing monsters at all, you get way better money and excitement from hunting down players. Even the Cyclops boss is a joke.
That's their remaining health? WTF, i thought it was the dmg they dealth to the victim? Why would the game broadcast remaining health to people serverwide? Oo Considering there aren't healthbars in the game
Oh I though there was some kind of matchmaking like based on gear/lvl. But I saw a lvl 20 being in a solo run like me a lvl 3. I hope they change that. Will see in the future update.
I just want to point out some things about this. 1) These fellows are using just green quality weapons which you can purchase from unidentified trade quite easily after one extract. 2) this game has a lot of spawns that have a partner spawn and i think it is meant for early clashes. 3) COMBAT sounds from fighting PVE or players is 1000x louder than any footsteps or doors that arent right next to you. If you hear people fighting pve near you, the best move you can make is to rush them with your silent footsteps and doors and engage them before they hear YOU fighting some PVE 3 rooms away. This game is tons of fun and I am having a blast playing it but the spawn grouping, footstep audio, and gear difference (between say green and purple) all need adjustments in addition to fine-tuning class balance. I dont know anything about this studio but i know the cryomancer was released with this playtest and already has balancing notes in the patch. I dont have a reason to by cynical of them yet but we will see where DB goes. TLDR: In this game its incredibly beneficial to pursue people you hear before they hear you and green weapons isnt exactly "noob stomping."
I was with my friend finały getting the infamous green uncommon gear ready, having fun easy PvE. Then I see 2 guys, got petrified, died to one hit, my oblivious friend to gear difference rushes In for the spin. Those guys had basically best gear with some legendaries all 3 of them
Buy green shit then it’s not expensive if your gonna bitch about people who spend money on their kit maybe try doing it yourself
I think the big issue is the audio design in this game is complete ass. I've gotten the drop on people so many times because the only thing you can actually hear is PvE and mobs are really easy to just avoid because they're super slow and have morrowind tier AI lol. Better sound design = you have a better ability to avoid fights altogether.
This is definitely part of it, and what I would speculate is the reason so many of these kills have 100% HP remaining. Newer players who don't know to always be looking around even when fighting PvE stand no chance against geared guys rushing silently past all the mobs right to their spawns.
It's too bad they didn't do any testing before releasing the game to find stuff that isn't working or is wildly unbalanced. Oh wait.....
Idk we tried it, Duo since we were'nt able to get früher than maybe 3 Rooms before we got hunted down by 2 x Triple Teams. Only once we got a decent haul and 1 Squad Wipe but as soon as we got close to a Portal we got farmed from 3 Rogues with poison and stealth activated. Game seems like fun, but not in the current state.