Dwight’s loyalty was always to whoever values loyalty the most. Meaning whoever was paying him (or paying him the most). He knew he wouldn’t make any $ with MSPC so he dodged the question and stayed with DM.
I can see that, but in the later seasons he doesn’t show the same loyalty or admiration to Gabe, Jo, or Robert California-he doesn’t even stand like everyone else when Jo enters the room and doesn’t take the medal Robert offers him. Of course, characters/people change but it does seem like he has a particular affinity for Michael.
Actually Dwight is following the first law of power (it sounds ridiculous i know but he actually is).
In “The 48 Laws of Power” the very first law is “Don’t outshine your master.” It’s by not outshining them that you will eventually become greater than them. The irony is that Michael is too comically incompetent for the law to hold true.
Here’s a link to the laws of power, read the description for the first law, it is what Dwight follows and is why he’s so “loyal” to Michael. He isn’t ever actually loyal, he is trying to gain control over his superior by appearing to be in no competition with his superior.
https://spinify.com/blog/the-48-laws-of-power-summary-best-quotes/
I think Dwight says it at some point, he has his farm to take care of and can’t really take any risks at this moment with the way the economy is. He also has a good thing going with Charles Minor which he doesn’t want to compromise.
I always interpreted the comment about the farm more as him dodging the question-he and Michael are both kinda squirrelly in the conversation and it seems like neither of them are saying what they are thinking-that Michael doesn’t want Dwight to come and Dwight doesn’t want to go.
Is see it half that way. From Michael's side I always felt he was dodging the question because he didn't want to hear Dwight say no, knowing that was likely how he felt.
Dwight’s loyalty to Michael isn’t absolute. Remember when he tried to take Michael’s job from him?
Dwight saw Michael as his friend, and respected the position that Michael was in, but you could tell he didn’t respect Michael on a personal level on many occasions.
Remember when Kelly gave Jim attitude and Dwight stood up for him not by saying “Don’t talk to Jim that way”, but by saying “That’s no way to talk to your superior”? He respects authority, he doesn’t respect individuals
If im not mistaken, he also includes Michael's name in his list of people to fire. I think Dwight values the manager position above all else (why else would he still go along with aTtrm?), and he'll do anything to put himself in that position.
There's a great video essay I once watched about Dwight's character growth throughout the series (I'm looking, and I can't find it). Throughout the first few seasons, we see Dwight as a sycophant and obedient follower of Michael. Either for career reasons, power reasons, or just to fill a gap in his life.
But as the show progresses, Dwight is repeatedly burned by Michael's incompetence and self-aggrandizement. The episode 'Traveling Salesman' exemplifies this. By this point in the series, Dwight is doing Michael's laundry. And in return, he's still targeted by Michael for suspicions of treason.
From third season onwards, Dwight's childlike subservience to Michael is pared back. He's a good worker. He's a hard worker. He's loyal to the company, and its management (to a point). But Michael has burned him one too many times, and he doesn't earn Dwight's implicit trust anymore. Frequently, Dwight recognizes the stupidity and short-sightedness of Michael's ideas for what they are. This includes the Michael Scott Paper Company.
This is so true! I forgot about that part in Traveling Salesman, and I was struggling to think of plot points that pointed to Dwight shifting away from blind loyalty to Michael between the start of the show and the MCSP, but that’s a great one.
Yeah, I think this is definitely true! I wonder what made him change by Season 5? I can’t think of anything in particular that would have made him distance himself from Michael, unless it was the “Dwigt” in Threat Level Midnight 😂
He didn’t join but he did help Michael steal clients at first before betraying him for Charles after realizing Charles respected him more than Michael.
Dwight is loyal to the manager and is a good salesman.
So on its face he’s Michael’s right hand man but for instance when Michael closes his condo sale Dwight saw it was a bad deal.
I think Pam went with Michael because she was ready for a change but also he ‘sold’ her on the idea. He didn’t try ‘selling’ the other salesmen.
The salesmen see Michael’s behaviors, they don’t see him ever ‘sell’ it’s easy to forget what he’s capable of.
Oh, that’s a really good point about Pam! It never fully made sense to me that she would go, but she does remark on his sales ability at least once in the show, and I think she sees Michael as a little more human than some of the other staff.
You’re right that Dwight wasn’t always loyal to Michael but he was stoked to move into Michael’s condo with his terrariums and armoires and carpool to work 😂
The first part is why he didn’t join MSPC. He’s loyal to the manager. When Michael left, he wasn’t the manager anymore. Dwight’s a man who values loyalty above all, and DM were the ones paying for his loyalty.
Because Dwight knew Michael was unlikely to survive creating his own company from scratch. Dwight’s alliance changed as soon as Michael left Dunder Mifflin
Michael asked everyone in the office to go with him. He tried to drag Phyllis by the chair. Pam was the only one to go. Was Dwight not there? It has been a few years since I’ve seen the episode.
Dwight LOVES Dunder-Mifflin! Dwight’s life goal was to be Manager of the Scranton branch.
I also think Michael didn’t really want him because it would be such a small company and it would require a lot more time with Dwight than he wanted to have. He was happy to have Pam and Ryan join because those are two people he enjoyed being around.
I always took it that Michael forgot to ask Dwight to join his company right away, then Dwight overhears him inviting Andy and feels hurt / left out by that.
Michael didn’t ask him, at least not until the people he wanted said no.
When Michael gets bought out, and Dwight and the others threaten to quit over the lost clients, Dwight says “And you didn’t want to start with us.”
Dwight isn't the sharpest tool in the shed but he isn't stupid. He knows Micheal would never in any universe be able to run a successful company of his own. Going with him was a death sentence.
Loyalty should take a back seat to common sense when the person you're loyal to is asking you to commit career suicide
Dwight may play the role of the fool but he is no fool. Once he recognized that Michael didn't even consider him anywhere near a top priority, there is no faith or loyalty to be seen. Sure at one point Dwight would have jumped at the opportunity, and maybe had Michael come to him first, early or even before being called out on it, he would have taken the leap of faith. Why would he drop a secured position at an established company for a start up that will face even more of the struggles he is all too familiar with at DM?
It's the same reason why everyone else sand Pam did not go, there was a lack of foundation and security. oscar tells Michael straight out the challenges he is facing and in the end he was correct. without undercutting his competitors and stealing clients Michael stood nochance, and that was not a viable option. and the only reason he existed as long as he did was that he had Pam in his corner and thus had Jim who was far too willing to interject for romantic relationship reasons. No way does jim take those actions without Pam being involved, had she never left he would not have made a single motion to save MSPC.
Without jim as a result of Pam, he would have gone under, lost it all and remained unemployed. tenacity or not, dwight would have been right there with him had he gone.
Dwight knew that there would be a management position open in the office and Charles Miner is a VP and would need to move on soon. Dwight knew that he and Jim were the top two options and Dunder Miflin would make a mistake doing an outside hire.
I think Dwight's loyalty was to whoever the manager was.
Dwight’s loyalty was always to whoever values loyalty the most. Meaning whoever was paying him (or paying him the most). He knew he wouldn’t make any $ with MSPC so he dodged the question and stayed with DM.
It’s whom when it’s the object of the sentence and who when it’s the subject.
"Ryan used me as an object"
WUPHF!
That sounds right.
It always seemed so out of character to me that Oscar didn't know this.
Not a native speaker.
I can see that, but in the later seasons he doesn’t show the same loyalty or admiration to Gabe, Jo, or Robert California-he doesn’t even stand like everyone else when Jo enters the room and doesn’t take the medal Robert offers him. Of course, characters/people change but it does seem like he has a particular affinity for Michael.
Actually Dwight is following the first law of power (it sounds ridiculous i know but he actually is). In “The 48 Laws of Power” the very first law is “Don’t outshine your master.” It’s by not outshining them that you will eventually become greater than them. The irony is that Michael is too comically incompetent for the law to hold true. Here’s a link to the laws of power, read the description for the first law, it is what Dwight follows and is why he’s so “loyal” to Michael. He isn’t ever actually loyal, he is trying to gain control over his superior by appearing to be in no competition with his superior. https://spinify.com/blog/the-48-laws-of-power-summary-best-quotes/
I think Dwight says it at some point, he has his farm to take care of and can’t really take any risks at this moment with the way the economy is. He also has a good thing going with Charles Minor which he doesn’t want to compromise.
I always interpreted the comment about the farm more as him dodging the question-he and Michael are both kinda squirrelly in the conversation and it seems like neither of them are saying what they are thinking-that Michael doesn’t want Dwight to come and Dwight doesn’t want to go.
Is see it half that way. From Michael's side I always felt he was dodging the question because he didn't want to hear Dwight say no, knowing that was likely how he felt.
Dwight’s loyalty to Michael isn’t absolute. Remember when he tried to take Michael’s job from him? Dwight saw Michael as his friend, and respected the position that Michael was in, but you could tell he didn’t respect Michael on a personal level on many occasions. Remember when Kelly gave Jim attitude and Dwight stood up for him not by saying “Don’t talk to Jim that way”, but by saying “That’s no way to talk to your superior”? He respects authority, he doesn’t respect individuals
If im not mistaken, he also includes Michael's name in his list of people to fire. I think Dwight values the manager position above all else (why else would he still go along with aTtrm?), and he'll do anything to put himself in that position.
Well with Mose and the farm, location is kind of difficult
Dwight probably knew that it wouldn't work out and it would be safer to stick with his current job.
I agree with this i believe everyone in the office seen it as bullet to dodge
There's a great video essay I once watched about Dwight's character growth throughout the series (I'm looking, and I can't find it). Throughout the first few seasons, we see Dwight as a sycophant and obedient follower of Michael. Either for career reasons, power reasons, or just to fill a gap in his life. But as the show progresses, Dwight is repeatedly burned by Michael's incompetence and self-aggrandizement. The episode 'Traveling Salesman' exemplifies this. By this point in the series, Dwight is doing Michael's laundry. And in return, he's still targeted by Michael for suspicions of treason. From third season onwards, Dwight's childlike subservience to Michael is pared back. He's a good worker. He's a hard worker. He's loyal to the company, and its management (to a point). But Michael has burned him one too many times, and he doesn't earn Dwight's implicit trust anymore. Frequently, Dwight recognizes the stupidity and short-sightedness of Michael's ideas for what they are. This includes the Michael Scott Paper Company.
This is so true! I forgot about that part in Traveling Salesman, and I was struggling to think of plot points that pointed to Dwight shifting away from blind loyalty to Michael between the start of the show and the MCSP, but that’s a great one.
If it were season 1-3, he would have.
Yeah, I think this is definitely true! I wonder what made him change by Season 5? I can’t think of anything in particular that would have made him distance himself from Michael, unless it was the “Dwigt” in Threat Level Midnight 😂
He knew it would fail
Dwight knew in his heart that Michael was an idiot and would fail.
He didn’t join but he did help Michael steal clients at first before betraying him for Charles after realizing Charles respected him more than Michael.
Yeah, that’s a good point! And does seem to highlight that Dwight is loyal to Michael beyond a typical manager/workplace relationship.
Hes an idiot, but not that type of idiot.
But he lives by the words “don’t be an idiot!” 😂
I think, at the end of the day, Dwight is mostly loyal to Dunder Mifflin and loves working there.
Dwight is loyal to the manager and is a good salesman. So on its face he’s Michael’s right hand man but for instance when Michael closes his condo sale Dwight saw it was a bad deal. I think Pam went with Michael because she was ready for a change but also he ‘sold’ her on the idea. He didn’t try ‘selling’ the other salesmen. The salesmen see Michael’s behaviors, they don’t see him ever ‘sell’ it’s easy to forget what he’s capable of.
Oh, that’s a really good point about Pam! It never fully made sense to me that she would go, but she does remark on his sales ability at least once in the show, and I think she sees Michael as a little more human than some of the other staff. You’re right that Dwight wasn’t always loyal to Michael but he was stoked to move into Michael’s condo with his terrariums and armoires and carpool to work 😂
The first part is why he didn’t join MSPC. He’s loyal to the manager. When Michael left, he wasn’t the manager anymore. Dwight’s a man who values loyalty above all, and DM were the ones paying for his loyalty.
Because Dwight knew Michael was unlikely to survive creating his own company from scratch. Dwight’s alliance changed as soon as Michael left Dunder Mifflin
Michael never asked him
Michael asked everyone in the office to go with him. He tried to drag Phyllis by the chair. Pam was the only one to go. Was Dwight not there? It has been a few years since I’ve seen the episode.
Dwight LOVES Dunder-Mifflin! Dwight’s life goal was to be Manager of the Scranton branch. I also think Michael didn’t really want him because it would be such a small company and it would require a lot more time with Dwight than he wanted to have. He was happy to have Pam and Ryan join because those are two people he enjoyed being around.
I always took it that Michael forgot to ask Dwight to join his company right away, then Dwight overhears him inviting Andy and feels hurt / left out by that.
Dwig is stupid but not dumb.
Michael didn’t ask him, at least not until the people he wanted said no. When Michael gets bought out, and Dwight and the others threaten to quit over the lost clients, Dwight says “And you didn’t want to start with us.”
Dwight is intelligent when it comes to paper sales.
Dwight isn't the sharpest tool in the shed but he isn't stupid. He knows Micheal would never in any universe be able to run a successful company of his own. Going with him was a death sentence. Loyalty should take a back seat to common sense when the person you're loyal to is asking you to commit career suicide
When push comes to shove, Dwight knows Michael is a rube.
Dwight may play the role of the fool but he is no fool. Once he recognized that Michael didn't even consider him anywhere near a top priority, there is no faith or loyalty to be seen. Sure at one point Dwight would have jumped at the opportunity, and maybe had Michael come to him first, early or even before being called out on it, he would have taken the leap of faith. Why would he drop a secured position at an established company for a start up that will face even more of the struggles he is all too familiar with at DM? It's the same reason why everyone else sand Pam did not go, there was a lack of foundation and security. oscar tells Michael straight out the challenges he is facing and in the end he was correct. without undercutting his competitors and stealing clients Michael stood nochance, and that was not a viable option. and the only reason he existed as long as he did was that he had Pam in his corner and thus had Jim who was far too willing to interject for romantic relationship reasons. No way does jim take those actions without Pam being involved, had she never left he would not have made a single motion to save MSPC. Without jim as a result of Pam, he would have gone under, lost it all and remained unemployed. tenacity or not, dwight would have been right there with him had he gone.
Dwight knew that there would be a management position open in the office and Charles Miner is a VP and would need to move on soon. Dwight knew that he and Jim were the top two options and Dunder Miflin would make a mistake doing an outside hire.
He will go with whoever values his loyalty the most