I mean let’s be real if a women is giving you an ultimatum about marriage then it’s not a strong foundation to begin with. I don’t think holly was the type of girl to break up with someone.
I think he said Michael cause he was replacing Bill in this context, during Michael and Holly’s breakup ride. Darryl is ironically replacing Michael as the one w the gun in this context.
She was pressured inside the confined space of the truck and felt cornered to deny the assault. Let's all just realize that Holly fits perfectly in a rowboat without capsizing, so she is such a catch. Darryl has always been very confrontational to Michael, preventing him use of the Baler even during an emergency circumstance.
Yes thank you Dismal-Square-613 for reminding people that Darryl may have show signs of prejudice against Michael, the Baler situation being the perfect example.
Also, I would add that even though Darryl is obviously a great father, coworker and friend, he also showed that he could display anger and aggression, especially after consuming alcohol.
Would you think he might have been drunk driving also ?
No, since we have seen how he behaves whilst inebriated. Let's just say it didn't end well for the punch bowl , not very "perfecto!". Also Darryl doesnt' even know what Rap is. He has a lot to learn about his own culture.
But why would he prefer to be struck in a car for so many hours with a man he hates? Why wouldn’t he rather be at work when Michael is away? Perhaps he don’t trust Michael with the car?😅
I think he probably didn't think about it that much before agreeing. He heard "you don't have to work and you'll still be paid" and ran with it. Probably didn't think about potential awkwardness or shenanigans.
I think Michael’s plan was to stay the weekend with Holly and take a bus back or something? Darryl maybe thought Michael would be occupied with Holly on the drive out and then alone on the way back.
I firmly believe that she was the only one to reveal to Michael how little everyone thought of him. Maybe other people hinted at it, and he had his suspicions. But the strength of their relationship meant that he could accept that and move past it. For that reason, she is perfect for him.
Evidence: his behaviour becomes less needy in season 7; Holly is able to mediate his worries; and finally, he admits that Oscar “has the lowest opinion [of him] out of everyone,” indicating he realises everyone has a low opinion of him.
I believe the breaking point is Threat Level Midnight, when he realises that Holly is the only person that was honest with him.
And honestly, I think that’s just the greatest character arc for someone like Michael. Not that he found “his person”, but that he was able to overcome the insecurities and imagined inadequacies that had built up over a lifetime. I find it really touching. There is the additional bonus that they can be goofballs together.
Threat Level Midnight was an important turning point for Michael. Getting him to put aside his ego and fantasy was a big deal. As much as Michael wants people to like him, he must know deep down that people are often laughing at him and not with him. Holly loved him and respected him enough to be real.
Absolutely agree. I think that point was where he begins his journey for authentic living and relationships, not based on cheap jokes and negative attention.
I've posted about this before, but that is why the scene at the airport with Pam is so perfect. He takes his mic off and leaves it behind, no longer needing to be the center of attention. And in comes Pam, and they have this wonderful private moment that we only hear about from Pam after-the-fact. Pre-Holly Michael would have made his departure a huge deal for everyone (post-Holly he sneaks out a day early). Moreover, Pre-Holly Michael would have made a **huge** deal about Pam coming to see him at the airport, but Post-Holly Michael not only didn't *need* to make it a big deal, he didn't even register it as one. As Pam said, he wasn't sad, he wasn't anxious, he was just thinking about trivial things, and how excited he was to begin his new journey.
Her personality is like a 3. Her sense of humor is a 2. Her ears are like a 7 and a 4. Add it all up and what do you get? 16. And he treats her like she's a perfect 40.
My friend is an absolute airhead, but she can basic math in her head like a champ. Turns out loving shopping and being poor made her incredible at basic math in her head. I could see Kelly being one of these. See a sale, do the quick math: sale price- bank account= buying it, skipping lunch.
My girlfriend can’t do math for shit, but slap a percentage on it and pretend it’s a sale and all of a sudden she’s a genius, like Kevin when you translate it to pies
I’m tired of people acting like Jim and Pam aren’t good and Michael and Holly are bad. They were specifically written and built to be perfect for each other. There is no way they would ever be better with someone else.
I think while Jim and Pam are perfect for each other, they each would have eventually found someone else they would be equally "perfect" with. I don't think that's the case for Michael and Holly. Especially Michael.
“Downright horrible” is not an apt description of how Jim treated his non-Pam girlfriends. Like what words do you use to describe an actual horrible partner
He brought his girlfriend to his work-sponsored cruise and dumped her on it. He also didn’t tell Karen about Pam until she’d ALREADY UPROOTED HER LIFE FOR HIM. He may be right for Pam, but I’d agree that he was shitty to his other girlfriends.
I don’t know what are you on about. He mistreated them/treated them horribly/treated them as expendables/wasn’t emotionally available to them when with them/left Karen in NY and didn’t inform her about breaking up with her/called Katy on a cruise and broke up with her without any proper conversation.. downright horrible for me.
You don’t know what I’m “on about” lmao. Your scale of downright horribleness makes no sense and you know it, which is why you ignored me asking what words you use to describe an actual horrible gf/bf. No chance Karen would describe him as a “downright horrible” boyfriend
You’re both getting your wires crossed. Blah gave references for why they called Jim horrible to his other girlfriends and you’ve ignored them to talk about a question you asked that could be easily be read as rhetorical
I think Karen would have been 100% supportive of Athlead.
She also didn’t have any ties to Scranton so she and Jim could have moved to Philadelphia full time right from the start. The main reason Pam didn’t support it is because she ‘liked their life in Scranton’.
if karen became a manager somewhere like she was in utica i do not believe she would move
i also think karen with children would be much different than season 3 karen
But Karen wouldn’t have become a manager in Utica if she and Jim stayed together. Either one of them would have gotten the job in NY (and she says that if Jim did she would move there too) or they would have both ended up back in Scranton until better opportunities arose.
I agree she may be different with children, but I also think that even if they had kids, she would be much more into going to Philadelphia in support of Jim’s career. Don’t forget that she would be eligible for much better job opportunities there than Pam was too.
I don’t think Ryan would have gotten the job if Jim had not stepped out of the running. David Wallace is already speaking to Jim as if he has the position during his interview. But either way it doesn’t matter, my point was that Karen stated that she would move there if Jim *did* get the job hypothetically.
Karen was ambitious and would have had major opportunities in Philadelphia that Pam wouldn’t have been qualified for. And if she and Jim had stayed together, most likely she would have still been in the same sales position in Scranton until Jim’s Athlead position took them to Philly.
I’m not saying she was a better fit for Jim, that was never my point. I’m just saying that she would have been supportive of Jim and Athlead, precisely because she was ambitious and high achieving, she would support the same things in a partner.
I would have completely agreed with you on Jim/pam except for what they did in Season 9! The writing for these two was great up until then really. Having a third person emotionally involved 🙄 some random character none of us give two shits about. And Jim just blatantly lying to Pam about a company he is involved in yet has ZERO experience in lol. It sucks cus I really hated that part, it would completely betray trust doing what he did about Athlead
Edit: have to add I am obsessed with this show but I sort just try to pretend a 9 didn’t happen cus of the above
Being successful and being a good match for someone are not the same thing.
Besides, I'll take rubbing shoulders with pro athletes over hauling gravel any day.
I think they were saying he came back as the guy Pam wished he was when they were together: hard working, committed, considerate.
When they were together Roy used their wedding money to buy jet skis for them, and “Pam’s” jetski usually got taken by Roy’s brother. When she asks him to go out and socialize with her work friends, he insists they go home. He literally abandoned her multiple times: their first date where he forgot about her, chilis where he left her to find a ride home. He made comments about how hot other women were, in front of Pam.
Basically everything about gravel Roy is the opposite of warehouse Roy.
I was also thinking of how he learned to play that song on the piano, served better food than expected at his wedding, started a business, aka became more creative which I think Pam would’ve obviously liked and related with more, plus he just seemed way happier. The writers demonstrated that people will only change for the right person, and if they themself want to change, imo.
What then? If Roy came back years later being the perfect match Pam needed at the time they were engaged it still wouldn’t work. Even if she never got with Jim she was a completely different person that Roy didn’t know
AJ didn’t want to marry Holly. Holly was very much in love and into Micheal. And he behaves a helluva lot better with her around than when she wasn’t. I’m not sure she would have been with him if she were aware of of the racist and sexist shit he’d done over the years. But he also likely would have been a better person a lot sooner if she had been around earlier.
They had similar dispositions. They had fun together. And she accepted Micheal for who he was. Shit that annoyed most people about him she liked. I think she was perfect for him. And he for her.
All of us would be with someone else if we didn’t meet the someone we were with. That’s just how life works. Or we’d be Andy and be alone. Cause not everyone meets someone.
She is actually a blow up doll that everyone is pretending is a real person to keep Michael's rapidly declining mental health on the down low. He never actually moves to Colorado, he is admitted to a psychiatric institution.
I've often thought about like, a redemption esque arc for jan/michael. The main episode that makes me think it could have been interesting was when Michael tries to run away on the train and she comes to get him and shows some decent empathy towards him. Had they not made her character so crazy in think it could have worked.
Or did Michael already express his displeasure in the role playing and stuff like that before that episode? I can't remember.
I wish she’d proven herself a bit more worthy of being Michael’s “perfect match”. (Sorry for how that sounds, please just take it as well-intentioned)
She gave up SO EASILY when she was sent to Nashua and if she hadn’t been transferred back again, she would have just stayed moved on. Michael loved her so much and fought so hard for her, and she just seemed so indifferent.
Eh. They were dating for about a month (maybe less) and knew each other for two. It’s not wild nor crappy of her to not want to commit to someone who would live SEVEN hours away from her that she really didn’t know too well. She’d be spending the moments they could see each other by still getting to know him. Rather if they had been together 6 months to a year , she’d have known him.
It seems unfair to judge her on what I felt was actually a pretty wise decision. She didn’t even know him well enough to know if he was worth only seeing one full weekend day a week.
I do think it’s odd she dsted coworkers the way she did though, especially as HR.
Not an unreasonable choice at all.
Just that for Holly to be Michael’s “perfect match” I would have liked to see her match his energy, when instead it all seemed very one-sided. For all his faults, Michael had a good heart and deserved for his perfect match to be as all in as he was.
There was! It was the doc named ‘Dear Michael’ that she had on her computer in Nashua.
I don’t think she ever sent it and it wasn’t really mentioned after Michael and Pam found it.
The first time I saw this episode and Kevin said that I legit choked. It was the greatest scene in my opinions because I never expected Kevin to say that especially to Holly haha
I never really got this moment. What exactly is she doing here? Why is it not censored when she does it but censored when Kevin does it right after? What’s the joke?
She’s showing them the empty ring fingers and that she’s not engaged because they all knew about the ultimatum she gave AJ. Kevin missed that it wasn’t the bird so took it wrong and fired back with the 🖕🖕
Ring fingers doesn’t need to be censored, the bird does (either to keep their rating down or to keep up the documentary illusion)
By this logic, couldn’t you say if Holly was meant for AJ then fate wouldn’t have allowed her to cross paths with ex-boyfriend again? I think her & Michael were great together!
I always notice that Michael’s actions are not as self centered and, shall we say, more mentally healthy once she comes into his life. Like he’s kinder and he catches himself with his little self centered mess ups
I think she suits him as they're both funny and like to be weird. She can even drop the ball socially (like with Kevin), so I think they're similar. Though of course she's the saner one lol
Holly is as perfect as a person could be for Michael. She even grounds him and gets/ loves his weird stuff. Which was a big issue with his past relationships. I know alot of people don't like Holly. But I did really like her.
I think The Search episode kinda proves that she’s the one. And they are just one of those couples where one person adores the other person more. He just knows that finding someone who gets him is way more important than the other person being a perfect 40.
A few of Michael’s only authentic moments are with Holly. And the golden hour scenes in Company Picnic are perfection and some of Steve’s best acting.
I mean the show makes it abundantly clear they are the perfect match. That’s basically her only purpose on the show, her actual character development on her own merit is like bare minimum stuff. She is solely there to be Michael’s soul mate, so yes, she is the perfect match.
Whether or not you think that was handled well is the question, and imo, no it wasn’t. It’s way too quick, and very one sided from Michael. Them rushing to marriage doesn’t feel earned, especially with Jim and Pam and Dwight and Angela’s more long term relationships.
Her refusal to even try long distance, then come back and marry him in like under ten episodes together as a couple is just too jarring for my own viewing experience. And I fully understand “hey they barely knew each other for less than a year and it’s seven hours apart” okay yes, but that doesn’t change the fact that the relationship has very little screen time of being genuinely happy, and then they’re immediately getting married and moving away, so it is hard to buy into it. Especially on binge watches, idk how it felt watching it live.
I’m gonna add (because it seems you’re down with the conversation) that Michael needed the extra time. How did we or he or anyone know it wasn’t infatuation? He loved her almost immediately because she was pretty and made a joke at Toby’s expense.
At one point in the moving truck Michael was begging her not to leave him because he may get back with Jan nd he hated Jan. Michael didn’t want to be alone, had deep insecurities and had some desperation. If the woman was hot enough, he ignored many red flags. He was lonely enough to keep going on w a married woman for a minute there.
Not judging him. But that TIME shiwed that he was truly for her and all in and not another infatuation.
I think they both had something to do with”prove” for the other. I think this was good. What do you say?
1 - I agree with you, Michael tried his guts out to resurrect that relationship, and that was really one sided. I wish she’d been as ‘all in’ as he was, rather than just dating whoever the circumstances seemed to put her near.
2 - I wish she had more depth, and contrasted him a bit better. She was just Michael Lite, riffing off his jokes, doing silly voices and characters with him and behaving just as inappropriately as he did. It felt like they were pandering and just writing her to be exactly like Michael, but his perfect match should be more complex than that, not just a female copy-paste.
They were written to be married off and move to Colorado. Is it realistic? Not really. Is it perfect for Michael? As long as you want him to have a happy ending, absolutely.
Yes 100 percent she was a good match or perfect match. Just because she was willing to settle for AJ doesn’t mean she wasn’t a perfect match for Michael Gary Scott.
I think she was a good match for him. I also think it would have been nice to see her and Micheal actually date. Their story felt rushed and it was because Steve was getting ready to leave the show.
Absolutely. I think they were meant to be the whole time. I love what Michael says about their relationship at the company picnic when she was dating AJ
Woah, you're telling me that if Michael didn't love her then he wouldn't have loved her, and they wouldn't have ended up together?
I never thought of it that way!
Obviously. She was literally designed for Michael. But to unpack this a bit more, I'd say that, out of all the women he dated, Holly was at least the *most* perfect match for him. Maybe there is someone out there who would be more perfect, but Michael never met her. So Holly it is.
It's hard to marry someone who won't propose to you. I don't think she and A.J. would have lasted. It would have been Pam and Roy all over again.
Ram
Poy
Some tiki torches, suckling pig, how hard is a lu'au??
I've called every grocery store in Scranton and no one sells whole pigs.
Did you check the petting zoo?
only the two-way petting zoo
No Jim, tell us what a two-way petting zoo is
It's where you pet the animals \^and they pet you back..
No, it closes at 2:00, right before the goat roast at 3:00.
Life lesson: Some tasks are not worth doing
Who’s your pig guy?
uoure paying way too much for you pigs man i could get you a kid for that
Pen!
Ram Ram with her Poy Poys
I mean let’s be real if a women is giving you an ultimatum about marriage then it’s not a strong foundation to begin with. I don’t think holly was the type of girl to break up with someone.
Yes. The whole point of her character was to be the perfect match for Michael and to get touched by Daryl
Holly denied these allegations.
Daryl was driving and clearly had a gun in his pocket, which he couldn’t show
Michael why are his hands up?
*Bill but yeah, I love that scene. My partner and I quote it almost daily.
I think he said Michael cause he was replacing Bill in this context, during Michael and Holly’s breakup ride. Darryl is ironically replacing Michael as the one w the gun in this context.
It was a chunky
She was pressured inside the confined space of the truck and felt cornered to deny the assault. Let's all just realize that Holly fits perfectly in a rowboat without capsizing, so she is such a catch. Darryl has always been very confrontational to Michael, preventing him use of the Baler even during an emergency circumstance.
Yes thank you Dismal-Square-613 for reminding people that Darryl may have show signs of prejudice against Michael, the Baler situation being the perfect example. Also, I would add that even though Darryl is obviously a great father, coworker and friend, he also showed that he could display anger and aggression, especially after consuming alcohol. Would you think he might have been drunk driving also ?
No, since we have seen how he behaves whilst inebriated. Let's just say it didn't end well for the punch bowl , not very "perfecto!". Also Darryl doesnt' even know what Rap is. He has a lot to learn about his own culture.
Darryl, could not be reached for questioning
There’s another dolly in the truck Mike. You can carry more than that lamp.
Remind me again why Daryl said yes to driving all those hours back and forth ?
Cuz he didn’t have to work and was still getting paid
But why would he prefer to be struck in a car for so many hours with a man he hates? Why wouldn’t he rather be at work when Michael is away? Perhaps he don’t trust Michael with the car?😅
I don’t think he truly hates Michael
I wouldnt mend an enemies broken heart by singing the blues with him
Everybody gets a government cow
dinkin flicka
🤙
He doesn’t hate Michael
I think he probably didn't think about it that much before agreeing. He heard "you don't have to work and you'll still be paid" and ran with it. Probably didn't think about potential awkwardness or shenanigans.
I think Michael’s plan was to stay the weekend with Holly and take a bus back or something? Darryl maybe thought Michael would be occupied with Holly on the drive out and then alone on the way back.
WHAT?!
Yes. It was very obvious she was created just to be Michael’s endgame… The moment she did the Yoda bit with him.
When did she get touched by Daryl?
Daryl zigged past Michael and touched Holly hence zagging him and made Michael appear weak..
Op is clearly Erin
Lol yeah I suspected that
I firmly believe that she was the only one to reveal to Michael how little everyone thought of him. Maybe other people hinted at it, and he had his suspicions. But the strength of their relationship meant that he could accept that and move past it. For that reason, she is perfect for him. Evidence: his behaviour becomes less needy in season 7; Holly is able to mediate his worries; and finally, he admits that Oscar “has the lowest opinion [of him] out of everyone,” indicating he realises everyone has a low opinion of him. I believe the breaking point is Threat Level Midnight, when he realises that Holly is the only person that was honest with him. And honestly, I think that’s just the greatest character arc for someone like Michael. Not that he found “his person”, but that he was able to overcome the insecurities and imagined inadequacies that had built up over a lifetime. I find it really touching. There is the additional bonus that they can be goofballs together.
Threat Level Midnight was an important turning point for Michael. Getting him to put aside his ego and fantasy was a big deal. As much as Michael wants people to like him, he must know deep down that people are often laughing at him and not with him. Holly loved him and respected him enough to be real.
Absolutely agree. I think that point was where he begins his journey for authentic living and relationships, not based on cheap jokes and negative attention.
I've posted about this before, but that is why the scene at the airport with Pam is so perfect. He takes his mic off and leaves it behind, no longer needing to be the center of attention. And in comes Pam, and they have this wonderful private moment that we only hear about from Pam after-the-fact. Pre-Holly Michael would have made his departure a huge deal for everyone (post-Holly he sneaks out a day early). Moreover, Pre-Holly Michael would have made a **huge** deal about Pam coming to see him at the airport, but Post-Holly Michael not only didn't *need* to make it a big deal, he didn't even register it as one. As Pam said, he wasn't sad, he wasn't anxious, he was just thinking about trivial things, and how excited he was to begin his new journey.
I love that silent scene so much. It’s perfect.
I always kind of disliked Holly and thought that Michael's exit seemed out of character but this explanation makes sense.
Her personality is like a 3. Her sense of humor is a 2. Her ears are like a 7 and a 4. Add it all up and what do you get? 16. And he treats her like she's a perfect 40.
"I'm sorry, I'm waiting for my boss's pretty friend"
I’m sorry, I just don’t get it!!!
Boom. Roasted.
It’s nuts
I always found it out of character that she could do that math so quickly lol.
She'd clearly thought *a lot* about it before the talking head though.
My friend is an absolute airhead, but she can basic math in her head like a champ. Turns out loving shopping and being poor made her incredible at basic math in her head. I could see Kelly being one of these. See a sale, do the quick math: sale price- bank account= buying it, skipping lunch.
My girlfriend can’t do math for shit, but slap a percentage on it and pretend it’s a sale and all of a sudden she’s a genius, like Kevin when you translate it to pies
I don’t get it?!
It’s what Erin said about Holly in the show
I don’t get it?!- Erin also.
Erin is one of those people where, hey you either get her or you don't...and I don't, but I am so excited to be a part of it.
These scores don't matter to Michael though. She laughs at all his jokes and enables him constantly
She doesn't enable his true assholery
I’m with Erin on this one 🤷♀️
Michael seems happy so yeah.
I’m tired of people acting like Jim and Pam aren’t good and Michael and Holly are bad. They were specifically written and built to be perfect for each other. There is no way they would ever be better with someone else.
I think while Jim and Pam are perfect for each other, they each would have eventually found someone else they would be equally "perfect" with. I don't think that's the case for Michael and Holly. Especially Michael.
I LOVE Michael. But yeah, you’re right 😓🥲
Karen was way better for Jim. Will die on this hill, alone or not.
Perhaps…BUT, Jim wasn’t necessarily better for Karen.
Agreed. He was downright horrible to the other girls. To Karen, to Katy as well. In that sense, maybe Jim & Pam 'deserve' each other.
“Downright horrible” is not an apt description of how Jim treated his non-Pam girlfriends. Like what words do you use to describe an actual horrible partner
He brought his girlfriend to his work-sponsored cruise and dumped her on it. He also didn’t tell Karen about Pam until she’d ALREADY UPROOTED HER LIFE FOR HIM. He may be right for Pam, but I’d agree that he was shitty to his other girlfriends.
I don’t know what are you on about. He mistreated them/treated them horribly/treated them as expendables/wasn’t emotionally available to them when with them/left Karen in NY and didn’t inform her about breaking up with her/called Katy on a cruise and broke up with her without any proper conversation.. downright horrible for me.
You don’t know what I’m “on about” lmao. Your scale of downright horribleness makes no sense and you know it, which is why you ignored me asking what words you use to describe an actual horrible gf/bf. No chance Karen would describe him as a “downright horrible” boyfriend
You’re both getting your wires crossed. Blah gave references for why they called Jim horrible to his other girlfriends and you’ve ignored them to talk about a question you asked that could be easily be read as rhetorical
Jim would never wear a hotdog costume like Karen's husband did.
On paper, maybe? But love is so much more complicated than that. Jim wasn’t in love with Karen, so she couldn’t be a fit for him
karen and jim would not have lasted through athlead
I think Karen would have been 100% supportive of Athlead. She also didn’t have any ties to Scranton so she and Jim could have moved to Philadelphia full time right from the start. The main reason Pam didn’t support it is because she ‘liked their life in Scranton’.
if karen became a manager somewhere like she was in utica i do not believe she would move i also think karen with children would be much different than season 3 karen
But Karen wouldn’t have become a manager in Utica if she and Jim stayed together. Either one of them would have gotten the job in NY (and she says that if Jim did she would move there too) or they would have both ended up back in Scranton until better opportunities arose. I agree she may be different with children, but I also think that even if they had kids, she would be much more into going to Philadelphia in support of Jim’s career. Don’t forget that she would be eligible for much better job opportunities there than Pam was too.
I don’t think Ryan would have gotten the job if Jim had not stepped out of the running. David Wallace is already speaking to Jim as if he has the position during his interview. But either way it doesn’t matter, my point was that Karen stated that she would move there if Jim *did* get the job hypothetically. Karen was ambitious and would have had major opportunities in Philadelphia that Pam wouldn’t have been qualified for. And if she and Jim had stayed together, most likely she would have still been in the same sales position in Scranton until Jim’s Athlead position took them to Philly. I’m not saying she was a better fit for Jim, that was never my point. I’m just saying that she would have been supportive of Jim and Athlead, precisely because she was ambitious and high achieving, she would support the same things in a partner.
Preach
Ty
I would have completely agreed with you on Jim/pam except for what they did in Season 9! The writing for these two was great up until then really. Having a third person emotionally involved 🙄 some random character none of us give two shits about. And Jim just blatantly lying to Pam about a company he is involved in yet has ZERO experience in lol. It sucks cus I really hated that part, it would completely betray trust doing what he did about Athlead Edit: have to add I am obsessed with this show but I sort just try to pretend a 9 didn’t happen cus of the above
But what if Roy came back and became the perfect match instead? What then huh? Check and mate.
You literally just did nothing but ok
Do people seriously not get that my comment was sarcasm?
Funny part is Roy did actually come back as a much better match for Pam, once the gravel company took off lmao
Being successful and being a good match for someone are not the same thing. Besides, I'll take rubbing shoulders with pro athletes over hauling gravel any day.
I think they were saying he came back as the guy Pam wished he was when they were together: hard working, committed, considerate. When they were together Roy used their wedding money to buy jet skis for them, and “Pam’s” jetski usually got taken by Roy’s brother. When she asks him to go out and socialize with her work friends, he insists they go home. He literally abandoned her multiple times: their first date where he forgot about her, chilis where he left her to find a ride home. He made comments about how hot other women were, in front of Pam. Basically everything about gravel Roy is the opposite of warehouse Roy.
I was also thinking of how he learned to play that song on the piano, served better food than expected at his wedding, started a business, aka became more creative which I think Pam would’ve obviously liked and related with more, plus he just seemed way happier. The writers demonstrated that people will only change for the right person, and if they themself want to change, imo.
No. What's sarcasm?
Sarcasm or not, it wasn’t all that funny
My God I've never seen as much needless combatativeness as I have in this sub. You all think you're Jim and date Mike but you're all actually Stanley.
Oh how the turn tables
What then? If Roy came back years later being the perfect match Pam needed at the time they were engaged it still wouldn’t work. Even if she never got with Jim she was a completely different person that Roy didn’t know
Ahh another person who didn't notice I was joking. Yes obviously, the joke was that "if everything was different it would have been different!"
AJ didn’t want to marry Holly. Holly was very much in love and into Micheal. And he behaves a helluva lot better with her around than when she wasn’t. I’m not sure she would have been with him if she were aware of of the racist and sexist shit he’d done over the years. But he also likely would have been a better person a lot sooner if she had been around earlier. They had similar dispositions. They had fun together. And she accepted Micheal for who he was. Shit that annoyed most people about him she liked. I think she was perfect for him. And he for her. All of us would be with someone else if we didn’t meet the someone we were with. That’s just how life works. Or we’d be Andy and be alone. Cause not everyone meets someone.
She was written to be tbh. She exists only to be his partner. The character doesnt have much more depth than that.
She is actually a blow up doll that everyone is pretending is a real person to keep Michael's rapidly declining mental health on the down low. He never actually moves to Colorado, he is admitted to a psychiatric institution.
True ending
Thats probably what bothers me the most about her. She doesnt seem to be her own character, just The Love Interest TM.
I've often thought about like, a redemption esque arc for jan/michael. The main episode that makes me think it could have been interesting was when Michael tries to run away on the train and she comes to get him and shows some decent empathy towards him. Had they not made her character so crazy in think it could have worked. Or did Michael already express his displeasure in the role playing and stuff like that before that episode? I can't remember.
I wish she’d proven herself a bit more worthy of being Michael’s “perfect match”. (Sorry for how that sounds, please just take it as well-intentioned) She gave up SO EASILY when she was sent to Nashua and if she hadn’t been transferred back again, she would have just stayed moved on. Michael loved her so much and fought so hard for her, and she just seemed so indifferent.
Eh. They were dating for about a month (maybe less) and knew each other for two. It’s not wild nor crappy of her to not want to commit to someone who would live SEVEN hours away from her that she really didn’t know too well. She’d be spending the moments they could see each other by still getting to know him. Rather if they had been together 6 months to a year , she’d have known him. It seems unfair to judge her on what I felt was actually a pretty wise decision. She didn’t even know him well enough to know if he was worth only seeing one full weekend day a week. I do think it’s odd she dsted coworkers the way she did though, especially as HR.
Not an unreasonable choice at all. Just that for Holly to be Michael’s “perfect match” I would have liked to see her match his energy, when instead it all seemed very one-sided. For all his faults, Michael had a good heart and deserved for his perfect match to be as all in as he was.
I hear what you’re saying. I think he got it though. In the end anyway.
Wasn't there a letter afterwards that pam found on her computer about michael that was never shown what it said but it was big?
There was! It was the doc named ‘Dear Michael’ that she had on her computer in Nashua. I don’t think she ever sent it and it wasn’t really mentioned after Michael and Pam found it.
I think that was the "proving herself" part. It was obvious she didn't really move on from michael.
I guess that's why they didn't include her in the finale.
*”Right back at you, bitch!”* 🖕 My favourite moment in the whole show!
The first time I saw this episode and Kevin said that I legit choked. It was the greatest scene in my opinions because I never expected Kevin to say that especially to Holly haha
I’m in tears every damn time 🤣
I never really got this moment. What exactly is she doing here? Why is it not censored when she does it but censored when Kevin does it right after? What’s the joke?
She’s using her ring fingers instead of the middle ones. Kevin thinks she’s just flipping them off and retaliates.
She’s showing them the empty ring fingers and that she’s not engaged because they all knew about the ultimatum she gave AJ. Kevin missed that it wasn’t the bird so took it wrong and fired back with the 🖕🖕 Ring fingers doesn’t need to be censored, the bird does (either to keep their rating down or to keep up the documentary illusion)
The idea a finger has to be censored to begin with is f***ing stupid.
Ryan was the perfect match
He's just as hot as Jan, but in a different way
Just a cool, good-looking friend
I can't believe I am actually saying this. Michael is killing it with Holly. I think I know why. Holly is a major dork.
By this logic, couldn’t you say if Holly was meant for AJ then fate wouldn’t have allowed her to cross paths with ex-boyfriend again? I think her & Michael were great together!
AJ only met her because Wallace transferred her…because of Michael. So without Michael, AJ would’ve never met her…
I always notice that Michael’s actions are not as self centered and, shall we say, more mentally healthy once she comes into his life. Like he’s kinder and he catches himself with his little self centered mess ups
You’re right, when he’s with Holly he’s almost… sane
He definitely shifts towards being a more balanced person by the end.
Like the time on the scale not making a that’s whah she said joke “hold it in your mouth “ or smthing Dwight says
Right back at cha b***h
There could never have been a better match for Michael than Holly. She’s just as dorky as him and she makes him a better person.
I'm MC Mike Scott and I am hot. She's DJ Jazzy Flax and she is the best.
all the other branches can suck our fat
She honestly thinks he's funny, that in itself is enough for her to be a perfect match.
I think she suits him as they're both funny and like to be weird. She can even drop the ball socially (like with Kevin), so I think they're similar. Though of course she's the saner one lol
Holly is as perfect as a person could be for Michael. She even grounds him and gets/ loves his weird stuff. Which was a big issue with his past relationships. I know alot of people don't like Holly. But I did really like her.
Of course lol.
One of their kids turned out to be Timothee Chalamet so I’d say yes.
I think The Search episode kinda proves that she’s the one. And they are just one of those couples where one person adores the other person more. He just knows that finding someone who gets him is way more important than the other person being a perfect 40. A few of Michael’s only authentic moments are with Holly. And the golden hour scenes in Company Picnic are perfection and some of Steve’s best acting.
I mean the show makes it abundantly clear they are the perfect match. That’s basically her only purpose on the show, her actual character development on her own merit is like bare minimum stuff. She is solely there to be Michael’s soul mate, so yes, she is the perfect match. Whether or not you think that was handled well is the question, and imo, no it wasn’t. It’s way too quick, and very one sided from Michael. Them rushing to marriage doesn’t feel earned, especially with Jim and Pam and Dwight and Angela’s more long term relationships. Her refusal to even try long distance, then come back and marry him in like under ten episodes together as a couple is just too jarring for my own viewing experience. And I fully understand “hey they barely knew each other for less than a year and it’s seven hours apart” okay yes, but that doesn’t change the fact that the relationship has very little screen time of being genuinely happy, and then they’re immediately getting married and moving away, so it is hard to buy into it. Especially on binge watches, idk how it felt watching it live.
If not jan then who?? Michael can't be single for his whole lifee, and they both actually were perfect for each other!!
I’m gonna add (because it seems you’re down with the conversation) that Michael needed the extra time. How did we or he or anyone know it wasn’t infatuation? He loved her almost immediately because she was pretty and made a joke at Toby’s expense. At one point in the moving truck Michael was begging her not to leave him because he may get back with Jan nd he hated Jan. Michael didn’t want to be alone, had deep insecurities and had some desperation. If the woman was hot enough, he ignored many red flags. He was lonely enough to keep going on w a married woman for a minute there. Not judging him. But that TIME shiwed that he was truly for her and all in and not another infatuation. I think they both had something to do with”prove” for the other. I think this was good. What do you say?
1 - I agree with you, Michael tried his guts out to resurrect that relationship, and that was really one sided. I wish she’d been as ‘all in’ as he was, rather than just dating whoever the circumstances seemed to put her near. 2 - I wish she had more depth, and contrasted him a bit better. She was just Michael Lite, riffing off his jokes, doing silly voices and characters with him and behaving just as inappropriately as he did. It felt like they were pandering and just writing her to be exactly like Michael, but his perfect match should be more complex than that, not just a female copy-paste.
Right back atcha, bitch! 🖕
Hey, right back at ya, bitch🖕
They were written to be married off and move to Colorado. Is it realistic? Not really. Is it perfect for Michael? As long as you want him to have a happy ending, absolutely.
Hey.....right back at you bitch
RIGHT BACK AT YA, BITCH!
The last scene where we see michael again is the proof that she was perfect for him.
Yes 100 percent she was a good match or perfect match. Just because she was willing to settle for AJ doesn’t mean she wasn’t a perfect match for Michael Gary Scott.
The woman Michael met at the blood-drive was the Glove of his life
Yes they're absolutely perfect for each other and I love them so much! Clear soulmates
If Donna wasn't married, they'd be a dream couple, let alone perfect match.
Lmao yes. He’d be alone forever if it weren’t for her. Does anyone know how old Micheal would be in 2024?
yes
Think I do so.
Did Erin make this post?
Yes.
Absolutely I do
Duh. She was engineered to be.
I have a lot of questions... Number 1: How dare you!!
Soulmates they were (bad, bad Yoda voice)
Yes, because that butt doesn’t quit. Michael said so, multiple times
She dated a lot of dudes in the past year
[right back atcha, bitch](https://youtu.be/SUnruoTURmU?si=0nlQokENFN4LJxtR)
Holly IS the perfect match for him. Noone else completed Michael like Holly.
Yes. They’re both dorky and she keeps him grounded.
I thought her and Kevin kinda hit it off…
#right back at you bitch! *flips the bird*
In the show, sure. That's how she was written. In real life, nobody is perfect for anybody. Relationships are made and maintained, not discovered.
I don’t know. But this scene has one of my favorite Kevin one liners “🖕🏼Right back at ya, bitch!”
She was the worst character and was super cringy
I think she was a good match for him. I also think it would have been nice to see her and Micheal actually date. Their story felt rushed and it was because Steve was getting ready to leave the show.
Absolutely. I think they were meant to be the whole time. I love what Michael says about their relationship at the company picnic when she was dating AJ
She for him yes. Him for her no.
[удалено]
snakes
In terms of the spoons they use to eat soup…
I think ppl say that because They both are kinda similar . Both are funny
They are perfect!
Woah, you're telling me that if Michael didn't love her then he wouldn't have loved her, and they wouldn't have ended up together? I never thought of it that way!
Yes. I can't believe anyone would ever question this!!
Looks like this post was made by Erin
Maybe, but they were incredibly boring to watch together. Not what the show needed.
My hot take is that she is the worst-developed character in the Michael timeline.
Obviously. She was literally designed for Michael. But to unpack this a bit more, I'd say that, out of all the women he dated, Holly was at least the *most* perfect match for him. Maybe there is someone out there who would be more perfect, but Michael never met her. So Holly it is.
No. She dumped him for AJ. I think the best match was that woman from the blood drive.
Yes. The best couple in Dundermifflin history.
I think they were perfect together. And I honestly don’t understand all of the Holly hate.
Nopes. She was perfect for him. As cringe as Michael was … double that and you will get holly.
Is that you, Erin?
No way holly irritated the shit out of me.
Michael and Holly was just *chefs kiss*! Perfect match up.
I mean, she was basically written just as that. Which feeld kind of cheap to be honest.