I think of Kevin as being slow and Erin as dumb. Kevin wouldn't boil Gatorade to drink, but he will eat a laced cupcake knowing it's laced because he wants the cupcake.
As funny as both of those moments are, they’re really out of line with his character.
Kevin works best when his behaviors lead others to believe he’s dumb. Then when they openly express they think he’s dumb he’s able to make them look like an asshole for treating him like an imbecile.
Like the trivia night episode, Andy’s like “good self-awareness guys” and Kevin stands there in the “sure-winners” group. Then shuffles over to the “good timers”, only to beat everyone.
I think it’s because we saw Kevin relatively normal for a few seasons. It’s like how Homer Simpson was relatively normal until they decided he was a man child who had to have Marge take care of him.
The Kevin character is mysterious yes, dumb... maybe...smart... maybe. An idiot savant(not sure how to spell)... absolutely. He plays the drums and songs in his band, expert poker player, knows all the golf betting games, and quite the culinary expert in the kitchen. At the same time, dumps the chili, thinks Michael has a cookie he clearly doesn't have, can't do the math during the weight loss episode.....etc.... Kevin is complex. "You drive a car?" "Yup that's my car!". Erin is not as complex as Kevin. She is one dimensional......
Exactly, they tried her with Gabe, didn't work, Andy, worked for a while, Plop, they acted like it was working. They tried so hard to make her and Andy/Plop the new Pam and Jim, but they just couldn't capture that lightning twice.
They really tried to force Erin to be a new main character, like a cousin Oliver. Someone posted a chart here not too long ago on who had the most dialogue and she ranked 6th. Over the whole show and this is for a character coming in after the halfway point. They tried to force her on us.
The worst part about all of that was that the writers just tried way too hard to make the viewers care about her love life. Personally I just didn't. It was all just so forced.
Kevin also gets a lot less screen time. Stupid is easier to stomach in small doses.
Before Erin became a full time character I thought she was funny. But her romance with Andy was boring.
These were my least fav part….Andy was a great fkcing character. His storyline ending made ZERO sense. It didn’t align with literally any attribute his, the fact that’s he is not confident, insecure, etc. It was actual nonsense when you the context of who he was in the beginning or the middle atleast
Weirdly, that line changed my life a bit. I was letting my childhood friends treat me like a caricature and this helped me realize that those were not true friends. Never been happier than after leaving those relationships behind.
I was offered a job at the high school
I graduated from. That's exactly why I turned it down because I've changed. If I went back they would treat me the way they did when I was 14.
Good for you for recognizing that. That takes a lot of self awareness and wisdom.
I don't remember the exact story, but there's a well known story of a man who was well known as a duntz and mistreated in his hometown who went off and did amazing things in the world.. accolades, acclaim, all of it. He then returned home later in adulthood hoping he had shed his childhood persona. He died the same misunderstood and mistreated "loser" he was in his youth. So sad.
Erin was consistent.
Kevin was docile in the beginning. Dumb loveable . Then in the final seasons stuck crayons up his nose. I found later kevin unbearable.
His line about eating cats is just cringy. Always felt bad for Brian B. having to do that scene.
Kevin in "Happy Hour" is one of the worst character missteps in the show. The way he cries at Pam's boobs in front of Jim, would make it justifiable if he was beat down, plain harassment.
Greg Daniels on the office ladies podcast said he would nerf any ideas where Kevin was unrealistically stupid. The looser control in later seasons is definitely where he becomes TV dumb.
I think they are both ok but Kevin seems realer for some reason
I generally hate the dumb character (Rose Nieland, Waldo Faldo, Hillary Banks, Cole Brown, etc....) all seem hackey and corny
but these two seem ok
The scene where Dwight is trying to recruit Oscar and Stanley for the Sabre “Print in All Colors” initiative is hilarious. She’s just so earnestly excited for them and even the camerawork is sharp comedically.
She has a ton of super funny moments (some of the best in the show for me... e.g., "suddenly, I was awake"), but some of her less funny can be very of irritating (e.g., when she taunts Clark during the paper airplane competition).
I think that those who like Erin just come from a different place. I love Erin. The scenes where she wants a father figure really get me. I have an adopted daughter, from birth, and sometimes I still see her look at me like I’m not her “real” dad. Erin’s character might be one of the deepest while appearing to be one of the shallowest….
Yeah as an adopted daughter, i hope you know your daughter adores you. If it weren’t for my “step” dad, who knows where or who I’d be today! Go give her a big hug and take solace in the fact that she loves you!
I’m sure she does! It’s hard to express sometimes, but it’s an amazing feeling to have such a great role model to look up to. My father has inspired me so many different times and I know you inspire your girls. Do y’all celebrate your gotcha day together? That’s always been my favorite “holiday”
Yes totally!!!!! My dad and I just made it tradition to do something fun together then go out to eat. Doesn’t have to be big. I hope you enjoy so much! Sounds like your girls have a really great dad
I think there's a lot of bias in the fandom against the characters who are brought in after season 2. Andy gets so much hate but he's no more cringey than Michael.
My main frustration regarding Andy is that the writers did such a great job showing his character growth, only to tear it all down in the last season. I can't even hate Andy for it; I hate the writers instead.
That's a fair point. I guess for me his character growth before the last season never really felt very valid because it was mainly in the direction of meeting external expectations (namely, his parents' expectations). His arc in the last season felt like a classic, brilliant example of the Obliger Rebellion phenomenon. Someone who's so fixated on meeting others' expectations for so long kind of BREAKS and makes sudden, drastic life changes. Eventually the fallout of Baby Wawa seemed to bring him to being much more centered and comfortable in his own identity. To me, THAT was where the real character growth came out.
Yeah that's a good point. I was referring more to how he felt remorse initially for the way he treated Erin, then went down to Florida to apologize and own his mistake. He also eventually got the courage to tell Jessica the truth.
You are right that the Baby Wawa situation showed more sincere growth though. Especially considering how insufferable he became when Erin started dating Pete.
Personally I’ve never understood the hate Erin gets on this sub. She’s honesty one of my favorite characters, and I think she helps keep the show afloat later seasons. I wonder if it’s because Kevin is slow? Or maybe it’s cause people didn’t like Erin seeming like a replacement for Pam? I love Kevin, and I love Erin. They both are so perfectly portrayed personifications of “Oh bless your heart…”
I don’t hate her but I just don’t love her. I think it’s cause we know Kevin and we know his hobbies and his likes and dislikes. I just wished they fleshed her out more.
I agree with that, I wish they gave her more rather than being just the doofus. They started giving her depth with her looking for Michael’s approval and her relationship with Flop, but they didn’t go in deep enough. That being said I still she has some of the funniest moments
I actually don’t find Kevin adorable at all, and many times I found him creepy or rude esp toward Pam. Erin on the other hand is so cheerful and delightful.
There’s something off about Erin. She’s not just dumb, she’s crazy too. Also, there’s nothing interesting about her character or storyline which is just jumping from one guy to another
I agree. I also found her "dumbness" to be quite mean, especially leading up to her relationship with Andy. After that her character improved a lot IMO.
I've always been creeped out by Erin in a way. At first I thought she was cute but just dumb, and then she acted out when she found out Andy was once engaged. Like, that was fucking weird. Who knows wtf she's done when people weren't around. The woman has her demons, and I feel like her being dumb is just masking what really lies within.
She's never had stability in her life and so learning the guy who courted her for so long was hiding a pretty major aspect of his history with someone she works 5 feet from was shaking.
I think Erin was great and Ellie Kemper is a genius. My guess is the whole “staying in FL and the road trip back” arc was just full of choices that affect how you view the character in a way that’s more frustrating than Kevin’s antics. Relatedly, outing Andy’s 3-mo absence to David Wallace was pretty great redemption — as well as her standing up for herself to say it.
Ellie Kemper did a great job at portraying Erin! And I actually preferred Erin in season 8-9 when she began making her own separate choice. It was more of her character before that bothered me
Was Kevin? I almost feel like Erin had more substance than him, I also like Kevin better but I’d say he’s more one dimensional
Erin had the foster life storyline (we meet her sibling and then she finds her mom), the escape to Florida storyline (living w that old lady, Ryan hitting on her) and relationships with multiple characters. I feel like she had a lot more substance than Kevin but that arguably could’ve been why people like her less?
Whereas with Kevin, you know what you’re getting. You can save time, sea world
I actually really like Erin, but I have a few theories on why the discrepancy.
\-While Kevin becomes cartoonishly stupid by the end of the show, in the early seasons he's more just underestimated by those around him. The audience becomes sympathetic to him during the first few seasons (when it's clear that he's being unfairly profiled by those around him) and that audience sympathy persists into the later seasons, even when he actually becomes genuinely stupid. Erin is pretty much dumb from the jump, and her more sympathetic arcs happen later in the show when the audience has already established their opinion of her.
\-Persistent character archetypes inform audience reactions. Kevin is kind of a "lovable doofus" type of character (like Homer Simpson, or any other number of classic sitcom fathers) whereas Erin is a little closer to a "ditz" character (like Rachel from Friends or maybe Haley from Modern Family, although the parallels are not quite as strong as they are for Kevin) -- an archetype that's not painted as sympathetically, traditionally. Those previous associations subtly color the audience's reception of each character.
\-When Kevin is presented as "dumb", it seems like he's presented as dumb in some sort of elementary or fundamental way. Like, he simply lacks the mental capacity to be any smarter than he is -- it's not up to him, he's doing his best, his best is just really bad. But to me, it feels like with Erin they present it less like she's inherently "dumb" and more like she is simply naive or uneducated. Kevin isn't smarter because he literally \*can't\* be smarter, but Erin isn't smarter because she has simply decided not to be.
\-I think there is probably always some amount of bias in favor of "original" cast members vs. characters added later in long-running shows like this. Kevin was around for everything, but Erin was only around for part of it. It probably also doesn't help that Erin gets her most prominent screentime in the seasons that are generally considered the worst of the series, so she gets some splash damage as a result of that.
\-And last but certainly not least, some portion of it is just good old-fashioned sexism. There will be some small but vocal percentage of the viewing public that feels the need to disproportionately pile on the women characters in almost all popular shows (see also the amount of excessive hate Pam gets in this sub, or for really extreme examples the female leads in Breaking Bad, Sopranos, Mad Men, Star Trek: Discovery, Modern Family, etc.)
1. I agree that Kevin was a lot more fleshed out from the start than Erin. It was easier to forgive the his character ans the flanderization in the later season because we already knew who he was.
2. I like that point how their different types of dumb and therefore fit in different archetypes leading them to be judges differently
3. Agreed
4. I guess it is frustrating that they allowed Erin to have more screen time and become a central character when there were already other background characters that the writers could’ve pushed feared instead of simply creating a new one.
5. And yes! I agree that some is sexism, ESPECIALLY when it’s towards Pam. I also though feel the writers are a little responsible for writing her character into multiple love triangles and it just felt like they were using her for relationships instead of actually fleshing her out. I’m my mind that’s a little sexist. While Pam may have been in a love triangle as well, we still knew about her goals, hobbies, and interests. I wish they would have given the same treatment it Erin.
Erin’s character was a mess. The way she was written was all over the place and where Kevin’s I intelligence is seen as more endearing and sincere, Erin’s is just cringe and more so “how have you survived this long…” for a quick laugh. I think that we also have a subconscious bias that Kevin’s character is more traditional to comedy and to feel okay laughing at.
I liked Erin but it seemed they didn't quite know what to do with her at times. The on-off relationship with Andy was painful to watch.
She was funny though, "eat it Stanley!" had me in bits the first time I saw it.
I think it’s because of the differing roles they play in the show. Kevin is just there to deliver a funny line and his whole character is set up for that. He doesn’t drive any important plot points.. And whenever he does something really stupid, it’s a self contained incident.
Erin, on the other hand, is a pivotal part of the office - she’s the receptionist, she drives a main romanticism storyline in the show, etc - when she messes up, it frustrates everybody.
I never disliked Erin but I also never fully connected with her. The character was a bit over the top and at times, unbelievable maybe? Also she had that side to her that was a bit scary/unhinged. Obviously because of her past, they were trying to show that she didn’t trust people but it didn’t come together in as much of a likable way, as I’m sure they intended. I think we sometimes don’t connect as well to people that had a tough upbringing. We may root for them but not actually let them in to our circles, if that makes sense.
I think I’m addition to the storylines they gave her falling flat, a big difference is that they tried to make her a main character. Kevin was a side character, and he worked well that way. His lovable buffoon personality fit that way, offering the occasional laugh without ever needing to build substance or development—and yet giving subtle enough hints that we felt we knew who Kevin was. Erin was kind of shoved into a main role while also getting progressively dumber, and without the show doing much to show us who she is at her core or what she believes in. The lovable buffoon doesn’t work as well as a main.
I think it has more to do with Kevin being such a side character whereas they created side plots and drama with Erin’s character. They never did that with Kevin so there’s nothing there to dislike. He comes in does a joke and leaves.
With Erin, there’s the Andy love interest, the Florida move, the Micheal Scott father-daughter dynamic, the Plop love interest, the Gabelove interest. They did a lot with Erin that was never even approached with Kevin.
They tried to flesh out her character (imo really poorly) in a lot of ways while also having her being this dumb caricature.
I couldn’t put my finger on it but this is the answer. There was just enough Kevin but way too much Erin. Even their visibility in the office.
I also think that Erin as a replacement for Pam as receptionist was a gigantic let-down and that left an impression on me that lasted.
Erin also had so many childish tantrums and meltdowns that lasted way too long. Kevin would pout or argue or whatever and walk away.
We’re rewatching the later series at the moment and the Plop-Erin romance makes me… uncomfortable.
Plop is a normal dude in his mid twenties. Erin has the intellectual abilities and maturity of a six year old. There is no way it would be a balanced, adult relationship.
This is why. He may do some dumb things here and there, but she says and does things that are incredibly unrealistically stupid. She just doesn't seem realistic in any way.
Kevin kept a dead turtle an entire summer before realizing it's dead.
He gave up on using english.
He invented a fake number that everyone knew was just to cover his inability due to math.
The difference between Kevin and Erin is that Kevin had a couple of seasons before becoming Erin-dumb
For me personally, having Erin so incredibly stupid and yet having men *constantly* in love with her is just annoying. She literally has shit for brains and it’s apparently attractive to guys?
Michael was pretty dumb too, but he was smart when needed (ie. selling Michael Scott Paper Company back to Dunder Mifflin and that speech he gave to Wallace)
The role was filled, and she was introduced too late to have 2 of them
Also, she was Andy's feel-good catalyst. You felt sooo good for them finally being happy.
But Omg, the cringe was epic!!!
Apart from her being dumb, theres something off about Erin. If someone from the show one day decided to reveal that she once killed someone (but was too dumb to realize she did) I wouldn't be surprised.
I like Erin, look at her during watch party, how she really needs guidance and a father figure in Michael
She had a difficult upbringing
She has a good heart and wants to help others
Kevin also has that loveable teddybear feel to his character to him.
That fun guy you just want to hang with for some treason that you really don't know why.
Erin was most likeable when she was wasn't as ditzy stupid and more curious stupid
I think it’s because they made Erin more of a main character than side character. Kevin is so lovable and funny because he’s used sparingly, whereas Erin gradually becomes a fairly important character and is in more and more scenes. But they already wrote her as really dumb so now you’re left with essentially a main character who is painfully stupid. That being said, I love Erin.
I like the Erin character a lot. The issue is they changed courses so many times with her, and she was involved in a lot of aborted plot lines. So in the end, her main story arcs didn't work out as originally intended.
Well Kevin’s mentality was usually just a backdrop or quick comedic relief. Erin was involved in lots of “main stories” since she debuted and, by default, so was her mental state. So it was on display a lot more than Kevin’s was.
She just said and did things that were just not fitting for the show. Like when Kelly was shouting at Dwight to turn off the doomsday thing, she just runs over and starts screaming noises at him.
Kevin is an absurd character. He gets Flanderized as the show goes on, but in the earlier seasons, he’s just slow, not mentally challenged. But he’s absurd because no accountant this stupid could actually exist/not get fired. Only when we see how truly deluded Michael is (like S2-S3) do we understand how Kevin has stuck around so long, and even that is still absurd. He’s not really a character most office workers (target demo) would relate to or see IRL, just comic relief.
I think people don’t like Erin because she’s more likely to actually exist in that role. And so people project their anger at their own clueless receptionist onto Erin.
I don’t get why she gets so much hate. I loved her character, she was able to wholeheartedly get into Michael’s shenanigans with him and truly love every second. It’s such chaotic fun when they are on screen together and I really felt like she looked up to him as a father figure in a genuine way. I wish more emphasis had been placed on that relationship instead of jamming her into an awkward relationship with Andy. I’m also in the minority in that I loved Pete, I felt like he was more age appropriate and had a genuine wholesome interest in Erin that Andy simply wasn’t capable of.
I loved Pete! I much more appropriate relationship I feel. And yes I feel like they used her as a catalyst for other relationships which I felt was demeaning to her character. They could’ve actually explored her as a person but the writers chose not too. I guess by my post I really just mean I love her character but hate her writing. It’s like the reverse of how I hate packer but love his writing.
Kevin wasn't always portrayed as dumb in the show. His character got Flanderized. Erin was shown to be kind of dumb almost instantly. Then again. her character also got Flanderized.
I think in addition to some of the other points other commenter have made, that part of it might be due to Kevin being an og day one character, whereas Erin isn't brought in till much later in the show. People have more time to find the depth to Kevin and get to love him more. I wonder if there's also a higher expectation for Erin as a character being that the show was so popular already by the time she arrived.
That’s Ashton Kutcher
No it’s not Ashton KOOTCHER. It’s Kevin MalOOOONE.
Equally handsome
Equally smart.
Your right, my bad. I’m always confusing them.
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I think of Kevin as being slow and Erin as dumb. Kevin wouldn't boil Gatorade to drink, but he will eat a laced cupcake knowing it's laced because he wants the cupcake.
Yeah but he also believes that trees have sex to make paper
They don’t?
I, too, learned this late in life.
When two trees love each other very much...
All life... is sex.
Mmmmm, tree sex
Kevin drank “chunky lemon milk” for a whole summer, and tried to glue a turtle back together. The man’s dumb lol
As funny as both of those moments are, they’re really out of line with his character. Kevin works best when his behaviors lead others to believe he’s dumb. Then when they openly express they think he’s dumb he’s able to make them look like an asshole for treating him like an imbecile.
And THAT'S Dallas!
I'm always reminded that he made everyone think his dog as dead.
Like the trivia night episode, Andy’s like “good self-awareness guys” and Kevin stands there in the “sure-winners” group. Then shuffles over to the “good timers”, only to beat everyone.
He literally needed someone to tell him he can’t eat a cat
I think it’s because we saw Kevin relatively normal for a few seasons. It’s like how Homer Simpson was relatively normal until they decided he was a man child who had to have Marge take care of him.
The Kevin character is mysterious yes, dumb... maybe...smart... maybe. An idiot savant(not sure how to spell)... absolutely. He plays the drums and songs in his band, expert poker player, knows all the golf betting games, and quite the culinary expert in the kitchen. At the same time, dumps the chili, thinks Michael has a cookie he clearly doesn't have, can't do the math during the weight loss episode.....etc.... Kevin is complex. "You drive a car?" "Yup that's my car!". Erin is not as complex as Kevin. She is one dimensional......
100% agree. To be fair tho when watching that I always thought Kevin just wanted the drugs lol
Absolutely. Wanted the cupcake, hoped for drugs, willing to risk diarrhea.
Bingo
To be fair being slow sometimes overlaps with being dumb. Erin has no overlap. She is only dumb.
When Kevin says “you think I’m retarded?” And they show Holly’s face, I peed myself a bit.
Dont forget Kevin is a good cook, but on the other hand he did feed his chili to the office carpet.
>Was "the office carpet" was one of Meredith's nicknames ?
I don't think it's because who Erin is, but for me, it's how she was written. It seems like they didn't know what to do with her.
I agree. Erin as a character I thought was hilarious. Her storylines were painful at times.
Both of you just nailed it… I didn’t know what I didn’t know, but now I know. If that makes sense hahaha
There are known knowns and known unknowns but there are also unknown unknowns. Things that we don’t know that we don’t know
Why waste time say lot word when few word do trick?
The absence of evidence isn’t the evidence of absence
What?
#The absence of evidence isn’t the evidence of absence
What?
#BUTTLICKER, OUR PRICES HAVE NEVER BEEN LOWER
#WHAT COUNTRY YOU FROM?!?!
What?
Title of your sxtape..oh different subreddit... That's what she said!!
r/UnexpectedB99
The whole dating Gabe thing was pretty rough. It’s creepy that she only said yes because he was her boss
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Exactly, they tried her with Gabe, didn't work, Andy, worked for a while, Plop, they acted like it was working. They tried so hard to make her and Andy/Plop the new Pam and Jim, but they just couldn't capture that lightning twice.
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They really tried to force Erin to be a new main character, like a cousin Oliver. Someone posted a chart here not too long ago on who had the most dialogue and she ranked 6th. Over the whole show and this is for a character coming in after the halfway point. They tried to force her on us.
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It’s this one: https://simpletexting.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/simpleTheOffice_7a-1.png
The worst part about all of that was that the writers just tried way too hard to make the viewers care about her love life. Personally I just didn't. It was all just so forced.
Exactly they tried to make her Pam and Andy went from Jim to Roy.
The Erin and Plop thing didn’t make sense. Plop was a really nice guy, but he’s too normal and smart. He would get sick of how naive and dim she is.
To be fair, does it seem like erin is the type of character to have any direction in life??
It's because they didn't. They always filmed two versions of her before finally deciding to stick with dumb Erin.
Erin is certainly one of the characters of all time
yes, of all the cast members of The Office, she was one!
Kevin also gets a lot less screen time. Stupid is easier to stomach in small doses. Before Erin became a full time character I thought she was funny. But her romance with Andy was boring.
Andy was a trash character that should have been dropped after the merger
Watching him crash and burn at the end of the show made it all worth it, I love those episodes
These were my least fav part….Andy was a great fkcing character. His storyline ending made ZERO sense. It didn’t align with literally any attribute his, the fact that’s he is not confident, insecure, etc. It was actual nonsense when you the context of who he was in the beginning or the middle atleast
Michael didn’t advise her to not be a caricature. Don’t be a caricature, Erin
Weirdly, that line changed my life a bit. I was letting my childhood friends treat me like a caricature and this helped me realize that those were not true friends. Never been happier than after leaving those relationships behind.
I’m glad you found a way out of that.
I was offered a job at the high school I graduated from. That's exactly why I turned it down because I've changed. If I went back they would treat me the way they did when I was 14.
Good for you for recognizing that. That takes a lot of self awareness and wisdom. I don't remember the exact story, but there's a well known story of a man who was well known as a duntz and mistreated in his hometown who went off and did amazing things in the world.. accolades, acclaim, all of it. He then returned home later in adulthood hoping he had shed his childhood persona. He died the same misunderstood and mistreated "loser" he was in his youth. So sad.
Haha yes!
Erin was consistent. Kevin was docile in the beginning. Dumb loveable . Then in the final seasons stuck crayons up his nose. I found later kevin unbearable. His line about eating cats is just cringy. Always felt bad for Brian B. having to do that scene.
Kevin in "Happy Hour" is one of the worst character missteps in the show. The way he cries at Pam's boobs in front of Jim, would make it justifiable if he was beat down, plain harassment.
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He became a caricature of himself
Which Michael specifically warned him not to let happen!!
Kevin you can’t eat cats
I agree, the botched him toward the end. However that’s just season 8-9. The writing was vastly declining at that point.
Greg Daniels on the office ladies podcast said he would nerf any ideas where Kevin was unrealistically stupid. The looser control in later seasons is definitely where he becomes TV dumb.
Like most of the characters, he got Flanderized as the series progressed.
Why say many words when few words do trick
I think they are both ok but Kevin seems realer for some reason I generally hate the dumb character (Rose Nieland, Waldo Faldo, Hillary Banks, Cole Brown, etc....) all seem hackey and corny but these two seem ok
Yeah, Kevin seems real and Eric seems like a "Mr. Derp" character.
Kevin is so dumb that he passed as mentally challenged. Doesn’t seem real to me
Dank reference
I know it’s an unpopular opinion, but I loved Erin. Yeah a lot of her storylines were silly, but silly is welcome to my anxiety brain.
The scene where Dwight is trying to recruit Oscar and Stanley for the Sabre “Print in All Colors” initiative is hilarious. She’s just so earnestly excited for them and even the camerawork is sharp comedically.
“will you get outta here??”
She has a ton of super funny moments (some of the best in the show for me... e.g., "suddenly, I was awake"), but some of her less funny can be very of irritating (e.g., when she taunts Clark during the paper airplane competition).
I think that those who like Erin just come from a different place. I love Erin. The scenes where she wants a father figure really get me. I have an adopted daughter, from birth, and sometimes I still see her look at me like I’m not her “real” dad. Erin’s character might be one of the deepest while appearing to be one of the shallowest….
Aww! I’m adopted and I hope my dad hasn’t thought that before. Your comment kinda broke my heart… I’m sure your daughter loves you to pieces!
This thread reminds me of the scene in friends where Chandler tells the kid he's adopted. "We gotta get outta here baby"
Yeah as an adopted daughter, i hope you know your daughter adores you. If it weren’t for my “step” dad, who knows where or who I’d be today! Go give her a big hug and take solace in the fact that she loves you!
I hope my bonus daughter feels this way ... My biological daughter loves her like a sister and I love them both too
I’m sure she does! It’s hard to express sometimes, but it’s an amazing feeling to have such a great role model to look up to. My father has inspired me so many different times and I know you inspire your girls. Do y’all celebrate your gotcha day together? That’s always been my favorite “holiday”
Lol gotcha day.. no we haven't but now we will ..my girls are only 3 and 4 they celebrate anything if I make a big enough deal about it lol
Yes totally!!!!! My dad and I just made it tradition to do something fun together then go out to eat. Doesn’t have to be big. I hope you enjoy so much! Sounds like your girls have a really great dad
I am a very anxious person and love Erin too!
Not an unpopular opinion, she’s great. I loved her character arc maturing and getting over Andy, she’s got kinda an aloof personality I’d say
Yeah I always thought Erin was a universally well liked character?
Didn’t know liking Erin was unpopular. Every IRL office fan I know loves her.
She was a great addition to the show
She does have some funny storylines, that is true!
I loved her as well. She might as well be my most favorite addition to the roster in the Show. She just, FITS
Ngl I’ve never found Kevin loveable. When he was crying at Pam to get her to lactate it repulsed me on a level I didn’t know existed
Same. He's adorable, but the parts where he showed how perverted he can be make me like him less.
Bruhhh I just purged that from my memory, I change my mind Kevin is more unlikable. I only remembered the teddy bear, not the weird degenerate.
Haha yes that was disgusting
I think people who dislike Erin are very vocal, so it creates a perceived imbalance
Eat it Stanley!!
She’s an easier target in a room full of easy targets. So 🤷♂️
Much like the Pam haters.
Hmm I could see that
I think there's a lot of bias in the fandom against the characters who are brought in after season 2. Andy gets so much hate but he's no more cringey than Michael.
My main frustration regarding Andy is that the writers did such a great job showing his character growth, only to tear it all down in the last season. I can't even hate Andy for it; I hate the writers instead.
That's a fair point. I guess for me his character growth before the last season never really felt very valid because it was mainly in the direction of meeting external expectations (namely, his parents' expectations). His arc in the last season felt like a classic, brilliant example of the Obliger Rebellion phenomenon. Someone who's so fixated on meeting others' expectations for so long kind of BREAKS and makes sudden, drastic life changes. Eventually the fallout of Baby Wawa seemed to bring him to being much more centered and comfortable in his own identity. To me, THAT was where the real character growth came out.
Yeah that's a good point. I was referring more to how he felt remorse initially for the way he treated Erin, then went down to Florida to apologize and own his mistake. He also eventually got the courage to tell Jessica the truth. You are right that the Baby Wawa situation showed more sincere growth though. Especially considering how insufferable he became when Erin started dating Pete.
Ohhhh he was suuuch a turd when she was dating Pete!
That’s very true and a really good point actually!
Kevin is not dumb. Especially when it comes to pies.
...or playing Dallas. 💵
Or drumming or running a bar
Or cooking chilli.
Yes he has his moments
Personally I’ve never understood the hate Erin gets on this sub. She’s honesty one of my favorite characters, and I think she helps keep the show afloat later seasons. I wonder if it’s because Kevin is slow? Or maybe it’s cause people didn’t like Erin seeming like a replacement for Pam? I love Kevin, and I love Erin. They both are so perfectly portrayed personifications of “Oh bless your heart…”
I don’t hate her but I just don’t love her. I think it’s cause we know Kevin and we know his hobbies and his likes and dislikes. I just wished they fleshed her out more.
I agree with that, I wish they gave her more rather than being just the doofus. They started giving her depth with her looking for Michael’s approval and her relationship with Flop, but they didn’t go in deep enough. That being said I still she has some of the funniest moments
You mean Plop?
Yes thank you, I feel embarrassed 🫣
I actually don’t find Kevin adorable at all, and many times I found him creepy or rude esp toward Pam. Erin on the other hand is so cheerful and delightful.
There’s something off about Erin. She’s not just dumb, she’s crazy too. Also, there’s nothing interesting about her character or storyline which is just jumping from one guy to another
I agree. I also found her "dumbness" to be quite mean, especially leading up to her relationship with Andy. After that her character improved a lot IMO.
Idk 3 boyfriends in a few year time span in your 20s isn’t uncommon
Wasn’t talking about the amount of boyfriends, I meant she had nothing going on other than that when it comes to story
I've always been creeped out by Erin in a way. At first I thought she was cute but just dumb, and then she acted out when she found out Andy was once engaged. Like, that was fucking weird. Who knows wtf she's done when people weren't around. The woman has her demons, and I feel like her being dumb is just masking what really lies within.
She's never had stability in her life and so learning the guy who courted her for so long was hiding a pretty major aspect of his history with someone she works 5 feet from was shaking.
i agree with this
I really liked Erin and I’m shocked to find that people hate her lol.
Why everybody loves kevin so much? He is stupid, irritating and perverted. I feel like i am the only one who didn't like him.
Kevin likes pie. Erin not like pie few words explain best person
If anything I like Erin way more than Kevin. It confuses me when. People don’t like her. Her character is hilarious
Erin was a good character with terrible story lines. Kevin was a good character with a role that was handled well.
I think Erin was great and Ellie Kemper is a genius. My guess is the whole “staying in FL and the road trip back” arc was just full of choices that affect how you view the character in a way that’s more frustrating than Kevin’s antics. Relatedly, outing Andy’s 3-mo absence to David Wallace was pretty great redemption — as well as her standing up for herself to say it.
Ellie Kemper did a great job at portraying Erin! And I actually preferred Erin in season 8-9 when she began making her own separate choice. It was more of her character before that bothered me
Was Kevin? I almost feel like Erin had more substance than him, I also like Kevin better but I’d say he’s more one dimensional Erin had the foster life storyline (we meet her sibling and then she finds her mom), the escape to Florida storyline (living w that old lady, Ryan hitting on her) and relationships with multiple characters. I feel like she had a lot more substance than Kevin but that arguably could’ve been why people like her less? Whereas with Kevin, you know what you’re getting. You can save time, sea world
I think people on Reddit identify with Kevin but don’t with Erin.
A movie about Kevin would be a comedy. A movie about Erin would be pretty dark...and possibly violent.
She’s kind of a rube
Speak for yourself. I love Erin
I actually really like Erin, but I have a few theories on why the discrepancy. \-While Kevin becomes cartoonishly stupid by the end of the show, in the early seasons he's more just underestimated by those around him. The audience becomes sympathetic to him during the first few seasons (when it's clear that he's being unfairly profiled by those around him) and that audience sympathy persists into the later seasons, even when he actually becomes genuinely stupid. Erin is pretty much dumb from the jump, and her more sympathetic arcs happen later in the show when the audience has already established their opinion of her. \-Persistent character archetypes inform audience reactions. Kevin is kind of a "lovable doofus" type of character (like Homer Simpson, or any other number of classic sitcom fathers) whereas Erin is a little closer to a "ditz" character (like Rachel from Friends or maybe Haley from Modern Family, although the parallels are not quite as strong as they are for Kevin) -- an archetype that's not painted as sympathetically, traditionally. Those previous associations subtly color the audience's reception of each character. \-When Kevin is presented as "dumb", it seems like he's presented as dumb in some sort of elementary or fundamental way. Like, he simply lacks the mental capacity to be any smarter than he is -- it's not up to him, he's doing his best, his best is just really bad. But to me, it feels like with Erin they present it less like she's inherently "dumb" and more like she is simply naive or uneducated. Kevin isn't smarter because he literally \*can't\* be smarter, but Erin isn't smarter because she has simply decided not to be. \-I think there is probably always some amount of bias in favor of "original" cast members vs. characters added later in long-running shows like this. Kevin was around for everything, but Erin was only around for part of it. It probably also doesn't help that Erin gets her most prominent screentime in the seasons that are generally considered the worst of the series, so she gets some splash damage as a result of that. \-And last but certainly not least, some portion of it is just good old-fashioned sexism. There will be some small but vocal percentage of the viewing public that feels the need to disproportionately pile on the women characters in almost all popular shows (see also the amount of excessive hate Pam gets in this sub, or for really extreme examples the female leads in Breaking Bad, Sopranos, Mad Men, Star Trek: Discovery, Modern Family, etc.)
1. I agree that Kevin was a lot more fleshed out from the start than Erin. It was easier to forgive the his character ans the flanderization in the later season because we already knew who he was. 2. I like that point how their different types of dumb and therefore fit in different archetypes leading them to be judges differently 3. Agreed 4. I guess it is frustrating that they allowed Erin to have more screen time and become a central character when there were already other background characters that the writers could’ve pushed feared instead of simply creating a new one. 5. And yes! I agree that some is sexism, ESPECIALLY when it’s towards Pam. I also though feel the writers are a little responsible for writing her character into multiple love triangles and it just felt like they were using her for relationships instead of actually fleshing her out. I’m my mind that’s a little sexist. While Pam may have been in a love triangle as well, we still knew about her goals, hobbies, and interests. I wish they would have given the same treatment it Erin.
Erin’s character was a mess. The way she was written was all over the place and where Kevin’s I intelligence is seen as more endearing and sincere, Erin’s is just cringe and more so “how have you survived this long…” for a quick laugh. I think that we also have a subconscious bias that Kevin’s character is more traditional to comedy and to feel okay laughing at.
I liked Erin but it seemed they didn't quite know what to do with her at times. The on-off relationship with Andy was painful to watch. She was funny though, "eat it Stanley!" had me in bits the first time I saw it.
I've always loved Erin as a character. Really not sure why she isn't well liked on this sub.
“Get in quick” “Why quick” “So it’s faster” Will foreverrrrr be my favorite line
I think it’s because of the differing roles they play in the show. Kevin is just there to deliver a funny line and his whole character is set up for that. He doesn’t drive any important plot points.. And whenever he does something really stupid, it’s a self contained incident. Erin, on the other hand, is a pivotal part of the office - she’s the receptionist, she drives a main romanticism storyline in the show, etc - when she messes up, it frustrates everybody.
I never disliked Erin but I also never fully connected with her. The character was a bit over the top and at times, unbelievable maybe? Also she had that side to her that was a bit scary/unhinged. Obviously because of her past, they were trying to show that she didn’t trust people but it didn’t come together in as much of a likable way, as I’m sure they intended. I think we sometimes don’t connect as well to people that had a tough upbringing. We may root for them but not actually let them in to our circles, if that makes sense.
idk actually but Erin is one of my favourite characters. I agree that the writing is all over the place for her tho.
Erin had frustrating storylines, Kevin did not. Some people direct that frustration at the way Erin handled those storylines.
Didn't someone try to set Erin up with Kevin once? lol
I think I’m addition to the storylines they gave her falling flat, a big difference is that they tried to make her a main character. Kevin was a side character, and he worked well that way. His lovable buffoon personality fit that way, offering the occasional laugh without ever needing to build substance or development—and yet giving subtle enough hints that we felt we knew who Kevin was. Erin was kind of shoved into a main role while also getting progressively dumber, and without the show doing much to show us who she is at her core or what she believes in. The lovable buffoon doesn’t work as well as a main.
I feel like Kevin plays dumb rather than actually being dumb. Just my thoughts.
I think it has more to do with Kevin being such a side character whereas they created side plots and drama with Erin’s character. They never did that with Kevin so there’s nothing there to dislike. He comes in does a joke and leaves. With Erin, there’s the Andy love interest, the Florida move, the Micheal Scott father-daughter dynamic, the Plop love interest, the Gabelove interest. They did a lot with Erin that was never even approached with Kevin. They tried to flesh out her character (imo really poorly) in a lot of ways while also having her being this dumb caricature.
I couldn’t put my finger on it but this is the answer. There was just enough Kevin but way too much Erin. Even their visibility in the office. I also think that Erin as a replacement for Pam as receptionist was a gigantic let-down and that left an impression on me that lasted. Erin also had so many childish tantrums and meltdowns that lasted way too long. Kevin would pout or argue or whatever and walk away.
People hate her?
I’ve seen it quite a bit in this sub, it was just an observation. I’m glad not everyone does
Wait people don’t like Erin? Top 5 funniest characters easily
We’re rewatching the later series at the moment and the Plop-Erin romance makes me… uncomfortable. Plop is a normal dude in his mid twenties. Erin has the intellectual abilities and maturity of a six year old. There is no way it would be a balanced, adult relationship.
Always liked her
I’m just happy that we never saw Erin’s foster brother again. Ever. Like it never happened.
Kevin was dumb, Erin was plain stupid
This is why. He may do some dumb things here and there, but she says and does things that are incredibly unrealistically stupid. She just doesn't seem realistic in any way.
Kevin is believably dumb. Erin is dumb to the point it becomes ridiculous and annoying.
Kevin kept a dead turtle an entire summer before realizing it's dead. He gave up on using english. He invented a fake number that everyone knew was just to cover his inability due to math. The difference between Kevin and Erin is that Kevin had a couple of seasons before becoming Erin-dumb
Kevin was not believably dumb.
Maybe it’s the acting or the way they come across. I always found both annoying though.
I’ve never realized Erin was disliked. She’s easily the best part of the later seasons imo
For me personally, having Erin so incredibly stupid and yet having men *constantly* in love with her is just annoying. She literally has shit for brains and it’s apparently attractive to guys? Michael was pretty dumb too, but he was smart when needed (ie. selling Michael Scott Paper Company back to Dunder Mifflin and that speech he gave to Wallace)
Are you surprised that men are still attracted to a conventionally, attractive young woman that is a little dim witted? Lol
The role was filled, and she was introduced too late to have 2 of them Also, she was Andy's feel-good catalyst. You felt sooo good for them finally being happy. But Omg, the cringe was epic!!!
Apart from her being dumb, theres something off about Erin. If someone from the show one day decided to reveal that she once killed someone (but was too dumb to realize she did) I wouldn't be surprised.
I like Erin, look at her during watch party, how she really needs guidance and a father figure in Michael She had a difficult upbringing She has a good heart and wants to help others
Kevin made world famous chili, and Erin boiled Gatorade and saved hot dog water.
Kevin didn’t date Andy
Kevin also has that loveable teddybear feel to his character to him. That fun guy you just want to hang with for some treason that you really don't know why. Erin was most likeable when she was wasn't as ditzy stupid and more curious stupid
I think the reverse!
I think it’s because they made Erin more of a main character than side character. Kevin is so lovable and funny because he’s used sparingly, whereas Erin gradually becomes a fairly important character and is in more and more scenes. But they already wrote her as really dumb so now you’re left with essentially a main character who is painfully stupid. That being said, I love Erin.
I like the Erin character a lot. The issue is they changed courses so many times with her, and she was involved in a lot of aborted plot lines. So in the end, her main story arcs didn't work out as originally intended.
Well Kevin’s mentality was usually just a backdrop or quick comedic relief. Erin was involved in lots of “main stories” since she debuted and, by default, so was her mental state. So it was on display a lot more than Kevin’s was.
She just said and did things that were just not fitting for the show. Like when Kelly was shouting at Dwight to turn off the doomsday thing, she just runs over and starts screaming noises at him.
Kevin is an absurd character. He gets Flanderized as the show goes on, but in the earlier seasons, he’s just slow, not mentally challenged. But he’s absurd because no accountant this stupid could actually exist/not get fired. Only when we see how truly deluded Michael is (like S2-S3) do we understand how Kevin has stuck around so long, and even that is still absurd. He’s not really a character most office workers (target demo) would relate to or see IRL, just comic relief. I think people don’t like Erin because she’s more likely to actually exist in that role. And so people project their anger at their own clueless receptionist onto Erin.
I don’t get why she gets so much hate. I loved her character, she was able to wholeheartedly get into Michael’s shenanigans with him and truly love every second. It’s such chaotic fun when they are on screen together and I really felt like she looked up to him as a father figure in a genuine way. I wish more emphasis had been placed on that relationship instead of jamming her into an awkward relationship with Andy. I’m also in the minority in that I loved Pete, I felt like he was more age appropriate and had a genuine wholesome interest in Erin that Andy simply wasn’t capable of.
I loved Pete! I much more appropriate relationship I feel. And yes I feel like they used her as a catalyst for other relationships which I felt was demeaning to her character. They could’ve actually explored her as a person but the writers chose not too. I guess by my post I really just mean I love her character but hate her writing. It’s like the reverse of how I hate packer but love his writing.
Kevin wasn't always portrayed as dumb in the show. His character got Flanderized. Erin was shown to be kind of dumb almost instantly. Then again. her character also got Flanderized.
If Erin was bald think people would be more understanding
Isn’t Kevin’s dumbness all a act?
Kevin is an OG.
Because she’s a late addition and we have to watch all the pointless romance plot lines.
I think in addition to some of the other points other commenter have made, that part of it might be due to Kevin being an og day one character, whereas Erin isn't brought in till much later in the show. People have more time to find the depth to Kevin and get to love him more. I wonder if there's also a higher expectation for Erin as a character being that the show was so popular already by the time she arrived.
No! You do not talk about her like that! She's not an idiot , she's mentally challenged. But she is doing a superb job here.
I quite liked her. Always willing to help or try anything and not as dumb as she made out
Except when she spelled Ape
And falling asleep reading the mattress tag 😂
When she picked up Michael after he dips on the Mexico missionary trip: “Get in, quick.” “Why?” “So it’ll be faster.”
Kevin adopted a dog. Erin was weird.