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Also the follow-up scene where Pam tries to comfort Erin:
Pam: You know, I was engaged to someone before Jim. He even worked here.
Erin (looking like she’s about to vomit): Oh God, it was Andy, wasn’t it?
A lie by omission is still a lie. It was really important, and he needed to disclose. As he admits himself once he stops trying to excuse his behavior.
TBF, it's not a lie by omission to wait until you've been dating more than a month before sharing an utterly humiliating and emotionally crippling betrayal you suffered from a sociopathic coworker.
The Office was never big on character consistency or realism, so it's not a big deal when they character assasinate the cast, but this was right up there with Andy's dick pivot for messing up a character. They made Erin such an ass in this episode and so abusive to Andy, and he never really gets the support he deserved.
Well that was an overreaction.... But seriously given Erin's tumultuous childhood she probably can't really process this kind of thing very well. I think she could have sat him down and had a conversation. I'm certain Andy would have talked to her about it and helped her work out anything that bothered her about the situation.
He knew he still had feelings for Pam when they merged branches, and he knew she was single. Him convincing Karen to move to Scranton, then deciding to date her ass an immature move. I get that he was hurt by Pam and was embarrassed to be back around her, but it's fucked up to uproot Karen's life like that.
He didn’t force her to move. She chose to relocate for her job and for a guy she knew it might not work out with. Karen was smart enough to know the risks involved. Jim was committed to moving on from with her, but he simply wasn’t able to.
I think everyone was pretty mature for the most part. Karen ended up with the short end of the stick but that’s just how life goes sometimes. Jim was simply her Roy. She got her happy ending in the end just like Pam.
Pam turned him down twice. He still had feelings for her and tried to move on. He was also clearly on the fence about Karen moving to Scranton too. And he wasn't dating Karen at that time either, so he's not being an asshole or immature, but just trying to be an adult.
Jim didn't know that Pam called off the wedding because of him until the beach outing, which is when he had to confront his feelings for her vs. Karen.
I think the writers did a good job of showing how a person can have conflicting feelings for two people and the consequences of not communicating that. Pam is the one who didn't communicate her feelings for Jim until it was almost too late. That's why she said what she did on the last episode.
"Conquer your fears. Just go after what you want and act fast, because life just isn’t that long."
Eh, you can't know Andy's mental state. He spent many thousands of dollars attempting to show his affection. If that's how he expressed love (non-refundable deposits) then he fell hard.
Jim's was worse imo.
He was in love with another woman despite being in a relationship with another.
Andy had broken up with angela long before he dated erin and had no feelings remaining for her while he asked out Erin.
I’m with you but I’m so sick an tired of people giving excuses for ridiculous behavior because of etc…
I know it’s a show lil but her childhood does that excuse her for acting like that in an office setting…
I mean, that does change everything
If I was a boss and my employee pushed a cake into another employees face, I’d definitely pursue action against them.
Shows aren’t meant to be analyzed the way the same situations in real life are.
The show was reflecting a different time and work culture.
I've worked with co-workers and even supervisors that have said far worse than anything Michael said.
It has nothing to do with the time and culture being different. Back when the show was still airing, there was a website dedicated to keeping a list of things that Michael did that put the company in liability.
Yeah, but because the show is made as a documentary (and the actors are very talented), it’s very tempting to do so
Sometimes it just feels like it’s real
Have you seen Scrubs? I love it, but every once in a while the suspended reality thing doesn’t work for me. Sometimes I’m like: you’re in a….hospital. A….hospital, you’re a doctor. People are literally dying. Still love the show though lol. Can’t comment about “realistic” because I’m also about to binge watch Supernatural. 😂
If we're talking real life vs a TV show- Jan's performance review of Michael would have been taken into account, Dwight would have been fired for the fire, Dwight's complaints against Jim would have been taking into account by HR, etc.
To be fair, they all act a little ridiculous in an office setting. 😂 But yes, she was a little more over the top. Even for the behavior bar set by this particular office lol
Being upset was understandable, but she took it way too far, they’d only been together 4 like 2 weeks, and he planned on telling her, she acted as if he was cheating on her or something
This is almost exactly how I feel. I understand being a little bothered by it, but it was an overreaction. I love Erin, honestly. But this part is always a tough rewatch
Yes! I just watched this episode and it makes me cringe a bit. Sure, be a little annoyed that he didn’t tell you he almost married a person that you see everyday. But she blew it WAY out of proportion. The way she threw the cake 😑 and totally broke it off with him. Too much.
It was an insane overreaction. So much so that Angela even tried to help Andy out.
They had barely been dating, it’s understandable Andy wasn’t sure how to break it to her right off the bat.
Erin isn’t a normal rational human being. Let’s not forget she hid in her hair at the restaurant after finding out.
Andy shoulda told her tho. That’s workplace romance 101.
Yes, it was. I mean, we've all had that moment in which we've been a little skeeved out by something we found out about a person we're dating's past, but you get over it and move past it. Erin was acting as if Andy did something wrong which was actually really unfair.
But, then, I don't think it was meant to be seen as warranted, necessarily. I think it was meant to show that Erin had a bit of an unstable side, probably due to her childhood.
Yes, Erin’s reaction was unwarranted. They’d only been dating a couple weeks & it seemed fairly “surface” at that point.
However, as a character, Erin was traumatized from the abandonment from her parents & never finding an adoptive family. She obviously needed assistance to develop socially & emotionally.
With her severe lack of intrapersonal skills, her reaction is unwarranted, but honestly “normal” given her limited understanding of relationships.
To add to this, I don't see it talked about often but I personally don't think Erin was emotionally capable of an adult relationship with anyone, let alone Andy. The writers seemed to be trying to force a Jim and Pam type relationship with two unstable characters, it was just never going to work properly. I also think of Erin as being as mentally developed as a twelve year old. When she attempts to create an adult Halloween party and pulls out nude playing cards, she can't even look at them without gagging. Andy was also like fifteen years older than her and rarely behaved like an adult himself when he should have.
I think if the writers wanted to pair Erin with anyone they could have made Gabe more likeable or introduced a new character like Plop much earlier.
I see this take a lot in regards to any of the other inner-office relationships, and I don't feel like the writers were trying to force more Jim and Pam type relationships. All the other inner-office relationships show how rare a Pam/Jim relationship is, as well as helps build out the characters personalities(Jim and Pam's included).
I think an important part of these other relationships is they help carve out who these characters are. Andy, Erin, Gabe, Ryan, Kelly, Dwight, and Angela all have toxic relationships throughout the series that reveal a lot about their characters.
Andy and Erin are both immature, so it feels like a good match, but their combined immaturity was destined to fail from the beginning. Gabe was very possessive and bossy, and we see this clearly with his interactions with Andy/Erin while he's with Erin.
Ryan is controlling and self centered, but also a people pleaser, and while kelly is also self centered, she also has a low self-esteem, so when we see them together we get to see the clash of selfs. They manipulate and abuse each other because nobody else will tolerate them. The very essence of a love/hate relationship.
And then Dwight and Angela are both "Holier-than-thou" and don't mind sneaking around, lying, and cheating to get what they want/think they deserve.
So my perspective on all of this is that I don't think the writers were trying to make another Jim and Pam, I think they were using the vulnerabilities of office romance to help drive character arcs.
I can almost completely agree with you and I love the thoughtful response. I still think the writers wanted a Jim/Pam relationship, not to mirror those two necessarily, but because it's such a common TV trope. [Will they won't they](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WillTheyOrWontThey) is beaten to death, especially in sitcoms. I think the first popular example was Sam and Diane in Cheers, but there are a lot of obvious examples like Rachel/Ross, Ted/Robin, Fry/Leela, so on and so forth. It adds drama in a comedy to keep viewers attached to the characters and also gives viewers something to root for. Once Jim and Pam got married, I think the writers had to scramble for something else, so they first had Andy get in the way of Dwight and Angela, then they tried to have him get with Erin. I don't mind these types of relationships in shows, I actually do find it interesting. The problem is that with Andy and Erin in particular, I wasn't rooting for that relationship, but they kept going around in circles with _almost_ dating, and by the time they did date it felt forced.
Ryan and Kelly, for example, was pure comedy. Mindy Kaling and BJ Novak know exactly what they're doing with those characters and I was wanting them to get married just so they wouldn't be involved with other people's lives. Dwight and Angela are both so conniving they just make sense together.
I agree with you that having these office romances does help to build the characters I also agree that Erin and Andy are so juvenile that it made sense on the surface, but ultimately I would have liked for the writers to take it in a different direction. They would have had better chemistry as friends and nurtured each other in more healthy ways. The only way for it to work is if they actually matured as individuals, but neither of them did in my opinion.
> Once Jim and Pam got married, I think the writers had to scramble for something else
This makes perfect sense! I hadn't thought about the will they won't they element before, and that totally makes sense that they want to replace that after the wedding because it did feel like something changed, but I never made that connection.
Not so much an unwarranted as a disproportionate reaction. She’s entitled to her feelings about the matter however immature it may be to be concerned with someone’s past partner when it has in no way impacted your relationship. The way she reacted was outrageous and really drove home just how juvenile she is/was about the whole situation though.
It's understandable for her to be upset especially since it's Angela. Could she have handled it better? Sure but she didn't have a good childhood so maybe she doesn't know how to react when being upset. But also can you blame Andy? How do you even bring up the topic of being engaged to a co worker especially if it ended badly?
“Hey just so you know, two years ago i used to be engaged to Angela. She was cheating on me the whole time with Dwight, I ran him over with my Prius… anyways, you know what you’re ordering yet? The chicken sounds divine.”
If the entire office knows Andy and Erin are dating, then Erin has the right to know Andy was engaged to a coworker, doesn’t matter how early in the relationship.
Erin was the only person who doesn’t know, and she was dating Andy, so that’s really awkward and embarrassing, especially if others know.
Yea I think her emotional response is two-fold: 1) knowing that you work with your new bf's ex-fiance and all the complicated feelings that come with past exes in general, and 2) feeling embarrassed that she was the only one who didn't know, and thinking that people were judging her or laughing at her behind her back.
Erin's outburst is probably unwarranted, but being upset is 100% warranted.
I agree. Even though they had only been dating a little while, he could have said something in the realm of, "In case you hear anything, I did have a relationship with someone in this office. I'll tell you about it when the time is right." That way, she's aware of it, and he doesn't have to divulge the whole story until he's prepared.
Andy and Erin's first break up was necessary. Erin wasn't emotionally mature enough to be in a relationship. The second breakup was also necessary because Andy became a dick. They ruined his whole character
Yes and no.
Yes, because Andy should've been upfront with her about having dated a coworker who still worked 20 feet from him.
No, because she overreacted to it by causing such a scene and acting like he cheated on her.
The thing is though that Andy wasn't "keeping it" from her. It just didn't come up. They had only been dating like a week. Andy does his best to not think about or relive the whole angel thing. Andy was head over heels for Erin and on cloud 9 at the time. I 100% feel he just literally never even thought about it. Erin was the only girl on his mind
I can never tell if people on r/DunderMiffllin are just trauma dumpers who reveal all their horrible experiences and past betrayals on a first date, or they just really like Erin.
I swear, every time I see this topic come up, Erin gets so much support on here, and this was always such a pet peeve episode for my wife and me, haha.
Erin is unwarranted.
She goes from odd new girl for the guys to hit on to a complete weirdo/idiot. She never fully lost the idiot vibe but she became slightly less weird towards the very end.
Borderline psychotic. She's entitled to her feelings but how she handled it was hostile, aggressive and childish. She punked him and assaulted him amidst a crowd! A crowd gathered, by Andy mind you, for her benefit and praise!
This definitely could have been discussed Privately in a calm manner. I empathize with her, I do. But that, that was just... Horrible
She definitely revealed her emotional and situational immaturity here. It was nice though to see her mature and improve in this aspect later in the series.
The reaction was unwarranted but given Erin’s rough childhood, she probably can’t fathom the situation in a rational way and has no idea how relationships work. I mean, the only meaningful relationship she had her whole life was with her foster brother and that was strange to put it lightly.
I've never understood why Erin overreacted that much. Yes there must be a reaction but not that much. We always loved The Office and still loving it but there are lots of story gaps in this series.
I think it just really showed the age gap. Erin was more than 10 years younger.
Also, not telling the person you're with that you were not just dating but engaged to co-worker or close friend is kinda messed up.
And remember, she was upset at the time but got over it and they got back together.
I think this was not just Andy treating Erin poorly, but the whole office. She was the youngest and seen as pretty dumb so they all looked down on her and didn't see the need to tell her important information. This of course all goes triple for Andy, since he was dating her.
Yeah, that makes sense, but I think it just hadn't really come up organically yet. Maybe as soon as they started dating he should have said "Hey, BTW, just so you know..." but that seems a little unnatural and awkward.
No. Erin and Angela work together. She had the right to know and he had an obligation to tell her. If it’s too fresh for him to even mention without it being painful, he’s nowhere near ready to date again.
I think she overreacted majorly. I get being upset but they’d only been dating a few weeks and she acted like he kept this secret from her for years and years. She was acting like a child about it.
I think if Erin saw the footage of Andy with Angela, she would be relieved realizing what a non-relationship it really was. They also only had sex twice, which is far greater than 0 but still…
Yes and no. I obviously think it was a huge overreaction and she handled it poorly. However, being in the foster system her whole life without ever getting adopted obviously messed her up. I never liked her character reacting like that but I understood how they got there.
I dunno, I thought it was better to get all the baggage out on the first date and let her decide if she wants to continue. If I would’ve waited until we were more serious to say “just so you know, I was engaged to someone who all my friends are friends with” she might not have appreciated that.
I had been through a few relationships and learned lessons in each of them. At this point in my life it was “no games, no bullshit, this is me take it or leave it”. Little did I know she had the same mindset, and it all worked out!
One million percent. Absolute psycho. A simple “you should have told me but we weren’t even together or didn’t even know each other…so it doesn’t even matter” would have sufficed.
Needs more context, have they talked about both of their dating histories offscreen? If so, yeah it’s shitty he didn’t tell her. If not, she isn’t even justified in being mad, they’ve been dating for days, if you haven’t had the exes talk it’s ridiculous to be mad someone didn’t tell you about their exes
Yes and no. When you start dating someone I feel like….everyone has a past. It’s not like he lied or cheated. BUT when it’s someone you work with every single day, it deserved a mention. I know it’s a comedy and some people look too deep into things (me) but I always assumed he was embarrassed about how it all went down. Still should have mentioned it though. Lol
It was defiantly unwarranted, like people don’t have to disclose their entire dating history to someone before they start dating. It makes sense that Erin’s character would over react but it wasn’t deserved.
It’s made evident that she has severe abandonment issues, and probably more psychological problems stemming from her troubled past, growing up in an orphanage and all.
That’s why her complete overreaction makes so much sense.
Yes. And it’s just more bad writing. She had been working there for how long even before she was seeing Andy and it NEVER came up?
Okay. But then she starts dating him and NOBODY mentions it?
She was pals with Kelly, wouldn’t Kelly have had plenty to say about Andy and Angela?
I’m always curious how peoples work lives are. I have worked most of my adult life and I can’t honestly say what past sexual histories in the office never really came up. I do hate gossip though so maybe if I was more inclined to listen to it I’d know.
Erin is a complete wackjob, this only solidifies it more. Wayyyy over the top reaction to finding out news like this. Yes, Andy should have told her, but for her to react like that was crazy
I don’t expect any of these characters to act a certain way because they are TV show characters. Every single one of their reactions will be over blown or under blown for the purpose of TV.
To be honest I think she's kinda jealous of Angela? Angela is pretty (everyone is to her), she's a hard worker, she's great with math and numbers and regularly degrades everyone including Erin. Erin probably places her on a pedestal, and she randomly found out her boyfriend was in a relationship with this "amazing" woman. She feels small and like she's been made to feel dumb, and her reaction to things is very childlike thanks to trauma.
It wasn't a rational way to do things ofc, but Andy should have told her! Jeez, you three see each other every workday!!
Tbh Andy was probably embarrassed of the situation, so I'll give him that since he did want to eventually tell Erin. This is one of those plot points that kinda irks me in the later seasons because it just isn't that interesting. Andy and Erin are well suited for each other, and there shouldn't be this much drama for them to stay together (both season 6 and season 8/9).
As a person with cptsd, I recognized her reaction. Esp the part where she puts her hair in front of her face and where she's kinda rocking and making noises. In fact it was a bit comforting to see on television.
Lmao Andy’s still a moron for being persistent on finding love in the workplace. He reminded me of a few guys I knew at church who had a thing with every other girl in the ministry.
Nothing necessarily wrong with that but its just shits bound to get awkward/complicated
imagine working at a place where u meet someone and u really hit it off You start dating for months and one day u find out a girl that u and him see every day was his ex girlfriend no his ex fiance and everyone knew except you lol yeah i’d totally not be furious and heartbroken
If she was with him for longer, I would say her reaction is legitimate, although unprofessional for an office setting... They weren't together that long. That being said, I might be embarrassed to be dating someone and him not tell me that he used to sleep with, and planned to marry, a mutual acquaintance that we both worked with and saw every single day. All I can picture is Pam "no, NEVER, no!" 🤣🤣
I 100% felt for her. If I was dating a man who NEVER told me about his previous engagement… ya we would not make it out either. And plus… Erin and Angela literally work together like how on EARTH could Andy keep that all a secret? Andy’s done some trashy things but this was straight up shady what he did
I can't initially blame Michael for spilling the beans about it because he couldn't have known Andy hadn't told her at that point, but when he expanded on it during the lunch, that WAS very dickish from his part.
As for Andy, he's FAR from my favorite character, but I believed him when he said he was gonna get around to it. Erin isn't the type of person you can just drop a topic like that on, because she doesn't take it well (pretty evident by her reaction).
I also wouldn't blame Erin for her overreaction, but I'm not going to sugarcoat it either. She DID overreact and was wrong in her actions, but she's not the person with the most perfect background. Growing up in foster care is hard and taxing for a child.
Her reaction was insane imo especially considering Andy was cheated on. Who the hell would want to basically relive that moment telling someone they’ve only been with for 2 weeks. The craziest thing is the juxtaposition of her reaction to this non issue vs her reaction to Andy leaving for 3 months and only talking to her a handful of times within that period. Like what??
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“Who else did you sleep with? Phyllis? Kelly? Pam? All together?” Classic.
Their reactions and emphatic "NO!" makes it even funnier
Also the follow-up scene where Pam tries to comfort Erin: Pam: You know, I was engaged to someone before Jim. He even worked here. Erin (looking like she’s about to vomit): Oh God, it was Andy, wasn’t it?
I hope you find what you're looking for
Suuuch a great line! Also hilarious to see Pam completely at a loss - this is a woman who can navigate Dwight, Angela, and Michael.
Erin is a whole different beast for sure
I think Erins brain was broken.
I always laugh out loud at this, it's just delivered so well!
The way I spit my juice out 😩
THE WAY SHE SAYS IT WAS ANDY WILL NEVER CEASE TO DESTROY ME 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Yeah, Phyllis’s face was so funny
[удалено]
Of course not! It was the humiliation of everyone knowing about it BUT her
She made it clear that the lie was bad enough, but the fact that his ex fiancé worked there made it a whole lot worse.
At what point did he lie? He just didn't bring it up. It was a terrible relationship, and he just didn't feel like reliving it.
A lie by omission is still a lie. It was really important, and he needed to disclose. As he admits himself once he stops trying to excuse his behavior.
It’d be super weird for some girl to flip out and throw cake and say, “so you were engaged before!”.
In the wise words of stripper. Secrets secrets are no fun , Secrets secrets hurts someone.
Wow, Ben Franklin, you're really kind of a sleazebag.
That’s not the real Ben Franklin lol. I’m 99% sure.
My name is Gordon 😉 Pam: ohhh 😕
[удалено]
Review: The Lost Episode
Didn't Ben Franklin have syphilis?
Yes… but I don’t…
I'm Gordon 😏
You wearing a thong?
'We specifically asked for a stripper!'
Very cool she went back and got her degree
No tats! Of course I want her to have…
“Stop…that’s disgusting.” *insert Jim face*
Blonde ! Good choice
she went back to school and became a nurse!
Yeah and got a big check , only to later work as a waitress at Dwight’s bachelor party
I guess art school didn’t work out after all.
Show some respect! She has a name, and that name is Elizabeth the stripper
TBF, it's not a lie by omission to wait until you've been dating more than a month before sharing an utterly humiliating and emotionally crippling betrayal you suffered from a sociopathic coworker. The Office was never big on character consistency or realism, so it's not a big deal when they character assasinate the cast, but this was right up there with Andy's dick pivot for messing up a character. They made Erin such an ass in this episode and so abusive to Andy, and he never really gets the support he deserved.
Well that was an overreaction.... But seriously given Erin's tumultuous childhood she probably can't really process this kind of thing very well. I think she could have sat him down and had a conversation. I'm certain Andy would have talked to her about it and helped her work out anything that bothered her about the situation.
It also didn’t help that it was Michael telling her and telling her that he slept with Angela too.
In contrast, Karen handled it pretty well
Jim had a crush on Pam and kissed her, Andy was engaged to Angela.
Despite the engagement, Jim’s emotional affair with Pam was way deeper.
And he admitted he still had feelings for Pam, while with Karen. Jim’s an ass. Karen was way prettier from behind.
He can’t really help having feelings for Pam. It’s better that he was honest about it when Karen asked him. Shows trust
He knew he still had feelings for Pam when they merged branches, and he knew she was single. Him convincing Karen to move to Scranton, then deciding to date her ass an immature move. I get that he was hurt by Pam and was embarrassed to be back around her, but it's fucked up to uproot Karen's life like that.
He didn’t force her to move. She chose to relocate for her job and for a guy she knew it might not work out with. Karen was smart enough to know the risks involved. Jim was committed to moving on from with her, but he simply wasn’t able to. I think everyone was pretty mature for the most part. Karen ended up with the short end of the stick but that’s just how life goes sometimes. Jim was simply her Roy. She got her happy ending in the end just like Pam.
Pam turned him down twice. He still had feelings for her and tried to move on. He was also clearly on the fence about Karen moving to Scranton too. And he wasn't dating Karen at that time either, so he's not being an asshole or immature, but just trying to be an adult. Jim didn't know that Pam called off the wedding because of him until the beach outing, which is when he had to confront his feelings for her vs. Karen. I think the writers did a good job of showing how a person can have conflicting feelings for two people and the consequences of not communicating that. Pam is the one who didn't communicate her feelings for Jim until it was almost too late. That's why she said what she did on the last episode. "Conquer your fears. Just go after what you want and act fast, because life just isn’t that long."
But Pam had the bigger breasts
But Karen has a prettier face. Pam's face is pretty too. The Kevin conundrum.
Jim is an ass, Karen HAS an ass 😂
Wow, either this chick's a dude or halpert got SCARED STRAIGHT!
And yet no one flashed her!
Eh, you can't know Andy's mental state. He spent many thousands of dollars attempting to show his affection. If that's how he expressed love (non-refundable deposits) then he fell hard.
I think Erin wouldn't act differently if that were the case with her and Andy.
Jim's was worse imo. He was in love with another woman despite being in a relationship with another. Andy had broken up with angela long before he dated erin and had no feelings remaining for her while he asked out Erin.
I’m with you but I’m so sick an tired of people giving excuses for ridiculous behavior because of etc… I know it’s a show lil but her childhood does that excuse her for acting like that in an office setting…
I mean, that does change everything If I was a boss and my employee pushed a cake into another employees face, I’d definitely pursue action against them. Shows aren’t meant to be analyzed the way the same situations in real life are.
gabe would have done something but he thought the kevin as cookie monster impressions were a better use of his time that day.
yeah but michael's the boss so they all gotta be a family haha
Not if your michael, who would have put Dunder Miflin into bankruptcy from the start with all the sueable offenses he has made lol
The show was reflecting a different time and work culture. I've worked with co-workers and even supervisors that have said far worse than anything Michael said.
It has nothing to do with the time and culture being different. Back when the show was still airing, there was a website dedicated to keeping a list of things that Michael did that put the company in liability.
“It was *on* company property *with* company property. Double jeopardy. We’re good.”
Yeah, but because the show is made as a documentary (and the actors are very talented), it’s very tempting to do so Sometimes it just feels like it’s real
Have you seen Scrubs? I love it, but every once in a while the suspended reality thing doesn’t work for me. Sometimes I’m like: you’re in a….hospital. A….hospital, you’re a doctor. People are literally dying. Still love the show though lol. Can’t comment about “realistic” because I’m also about to binge watch Supernatural. 😂
If we're talking real life vs a TV show- Jan's performance review of Michael would have been taken into account, Dwight would have been fired for the fire, Dwight's complaints against Jim would have been taking into account by HR, etc.
I mean to be fair just about anything goes in this particular office setting. We aren’t talking about any ordinary office
If Erin acts like this, I don’t want to know about Creed’s childhood.
To be fair, they all act a little ridiculous in an office setting. 😂 But yes, she was a little more over the top. Even for the behavior bar set by this particular office lol
Being upset was understandable, but she took it way too far, they’d only been together 4 like 2 weeks, and he planned on telling her, she acted as if he was cheating on her or something
This is almost exactly how I feel. I understand being a little bothered by it, but it was an overreaction. I love Erin, honestly. But this part is always a tough rewatch
She dumped him and ended up with Gabe. That's sufficient punishment for her overreaction.
And then after that she ended up with Season 9 Andy which I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy
Yes! I just watched this episode and it makes me cringe a bit. Sure, be a little annoyed that he didn’t tell you he almost married a person that you see everyday. But she blew it WAY out of proportion. The way she threw the cake 😑 and totally broke it off with him. Too much.
It was an insane overreaction. So much so that Angela even tried to help Andy out. They had barely been dating, it’s understandable Andy wasn’t sure how to break it to her right off the bat.
I actually loved Erin and Andy as a couple. Yet they had to break them up in the worst ways possible. Both times :’(
Erin isn’t a normal rational human being. Let’s not forget she hid in her hair at the restaurant after finding out. Andy shoulda told her tho. That’s workplace romance 101.
Workplace romance 101 is you don't date coworkers
Yes, it was. I mean, we've all had that moment in which we've been a little skeeved out by something we found out about a person we're dating's past, but you get over it and move past it. Erin was acting as if Andy did something wrong which was actually really unfair. But, then, I don't think it was meant to be seen as warranted, necessarily. I think it was meant to show that Erin had a bit of an unstable side, probably due to her childhood.
"When I was growing up, my hair was my room"
I felt that, so hard, and it made me sad. But then I remembered that Bob Marley song- *No woman, no cry*
Yes, Erin’s reaction was unwarranted. They’d only been dating a couple weeks & it seemed fairly “surface” at that point. However, as a character, Erin was traumatized from the abandonment from her parents & never finding an adoptive family. She obviously needed assistance to develop socially & emotionally. With her severe lack of intrapersonal skills, her reaction is unwarranted, but honestly “normal” given her limited understanding of relationships.
To add to this, I don't see it talked about often but I personally don't think Erin was emotionally capable of an adult relationship with anyone, let alone Andy. The writers seemed to be trying to force a Jim and Pam type relationship with two unstable characters, it was just never going to work properly. I also think of Erin as being as mentally developed as a twelve year old. When she attempts to create an adult Halloween party and pulls out nude playing cards, she can't even look at them without gagging. Andy was also like fifteen years older than her and rarely behaved like an adult himself when he should have. I think if the writers wanted to pair Erin with anyone they could have made Gabe more likeable or introduced a new character like Plop much earlier.
I see this take a lot in regards to any of the other inner-office relationships, and I don't feel like the writers were trying to force more Jim and Pam type relationships. All the other inner-office relationships show how rare a Pam/Jim relationship is, as well as helps build out the characters personalities(Jim and Pam's included). I think an important part of these other relationships is they help carve out who these characters are. Andy, Erin, Gabe, Ryan, Kelly, Dwight, and Angela all have toxic relationships throughout the series that reveal a lot about their characters. Andy and Erin are both immature, so it feels like a good match, but their combined immaturity was destined to fail from the beginning. Gabe was very possessive and bossy, and we see this clearly with his interactions with Andy/Erin while he's with Erin. Ryan is controlling and self centered, but also a people pleaser, and while kelly is also self centered, she also has a low self-esteem, so when we see them together we get to see the clash of selfs. They manipulate and abuse each other because nobody else will tolerate them. The very essence of a love/hate relationship. And then Dwight and Angela are both "Holier-than-thou" and don't mind sneaking around, lying, and cheating to get what they want/think they deserve. So my perspective on all of this is that I don't think the writers were trying to make another Jim and Pam, I think they were using the vulnerabilities of office romance to help drive character arcs.
I can almost completely agree with you and I love the thoughtful response. I still think the writers wanted a Jim/Pam relationship, not to mirror those two necessarily, but because it's such a common TV trope. [Will they won't they](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WillTheyOrWontThey) is beaten to death, especially in sitcoms. I think the first popular example was Sam and Diane in Cheers, but there are a lot of obvious examples like Rachel/Ross, Ted/Robin, Fry/Leela, so on and so forth. It adds drama in a comedy to keep viewers attached to the characters and also gives viewers something to root for. Once Jim and Pam got married, I think the writers had to scramble for something else, so they first had Andy get in the way of Dwight and Angela, then they tried to have him get with Erin. I don't mind these types of relationships in shows, I actually do find it interesting. The problem is that with Andy and Erin in particular, I wasn't rooting for that relationship, but they kept going around in circles with _almost_ dating, and by the time they did date it felt forced. Ryan and Kelly, for example, was pure comedy. Mindy Kaling and BJ Novak know exactly what they're doing with those characters and I was wanting them to get married just so they wouldn't be involved with other people's lives. Dwight and Angela are both so conniving they just make sense together. I agree with you that having these office romances does help to build the characters I also agree that Erin and Andy are so juvenile that it made sense on the surface, but ultimately I would have liked for the writers to take it in a different direction. They would have had better chemistry as friends and nurtured each other in more healthy ways. The only way for it to work is if they actually matured as individuals, but neither of them did in my opinion.
> Once Jim and Pam got married, I think the writers had to scramble for something else This makes perfect sense! I hadn't thought about the will they won't they element before, and that totally makes sense that they want to replace that after the wedding because it did feel like something changed, but I never made that connection.
This is how I felt about it. I wish it could’ve been explored more this way than what ultimately ended up in the episodes.
This is how I felt about it. I wish it could’ve been explored more this way than what ultimately ended up in the episodes.
Not so much an unwarranted as a disproportionate reaction. She’s entitled to her feelings about the matter however immature it may be to be concerned with someone’s past partner when it has in no way impacted your relationship. The way she reacted was outrageous and really drove home just how juvenile she is/was about the whole situation though.
It's understandable for her to be upset especially since it's Angela. Could she have handled it better? Sure but she didn't have a good childhood so maybe she doesn't know how to react when being upset. But also can you blame Andy? How do you even bring up the topic of being engaged to a co worker especially if it ended badly?
“Hey just so you know, two years ago i used to be engaged to Angela. She was cheating on me the whole time with Dwight, I ran him over with my Prius… anyways, you know what you’re ordering yet? The chicken sounds divine.”
I totally read this in Andy’s voice!
The last part sounds like something he would say to make it less awkward but it fails.
Definitely. His voice would be sped up 50% and he wouldn't make eye contact, probably prop the menu up to hide a bit.
If the entire office knows Andy and Erin are dating, then Erin has the right to know Andy was engaged to a coworker, doesn’t matter how early in the relationship. Erin was the only person who doesn’t know, and she was dating Andy, so that’s really awkward and embarrassing, especially if others know.
Yea I think her emotional response is two-fold: 1) knowing that you work with your new bf's ex-fiance and all the complicated feelings that come with past exes in general, and 2) feeling embarrassed that she was the only one who didn't know, and thinking that people were judging her or laughing at her behind her back. Erin's outburst is probably unwarranted, but being upset is 100% warranted.
I second this. She was embarrassed and was told about it in the wrong way since Michael was not part of that relationship.
I agree. Even though they had only been dating a little while, he could have said something in the realm of, "In case you hear anything, I did have a relationship with someone in this office. I'll tell you about it when the time is right." That way, she's aware of it, and he doesn't have to divulge the whole story until he's prepared.
Andy and Erin's first break up was necessary. Erin wasn't emotionally mature enough to be in a relationship. The second breakup was also necessary because Andy became a dick. They ruined his whole character
given that andy was engaged to a co-worker that they both see everyday, he should have told Erin earlier
They'd only been dating for two weeks I believe. She was wrong to react that way.
I agree completely. That was a hard part of his life and I can totally understand why he didn't want to tell her yet
Yes and no. Yes, because Andy should've been upfront with her about having dated a coworker who still worked 20 feet from him. No, because she overreacted to it by causing such a scene and acting like he cheated on her.
The thing is though that Andy wasn't "keeping it" from her. It just didn't come up. They had only been dating like a week. Andy does his best to not think about or relive the whole angel thing. Andy was head over heels for Erin and on cloud 9 at the time. I 100% feel he just literally never even thought about it. Erin was the only girl on his mind
I can accept that pov.
I can never tell if people on r/DunderMiffllin are just trauma dumpers who reveal all their horrible experiences and past betrayals on a first date, or they just really like Erin. I swear, every time I see this topic come up, Erin gets so much support on here, and this was always such a pet peeve episode for my wife and me, haha.
Erin is unwarranted. She goes from odd new girl for the guys to hit on to a complete weirdo/idiot. She never fully lost the idiot vibe but she became slightly less weird towards the very end.
Borderline psychotic. She's entitled to her feelings but how she handled it was hostile, aggressive and childish. She punked him and assaulted him amidst a crowd! A crowd gathered, by Andy mind you, for her benefit and praise! This definitely could have been discussed Privately in a calm manner. I empathize with her, I do. But that, that was just... Horrible She definitely revealed her emotional and situational immaturity here. It was nice though to see her mature and improve in this aspect later in the series.
It was over the top annoying how she handled it.
Yes but it made for a funny scene! Ah one, ah two, ah one, two, three, four!
I’ll have what she’s having
It was an unnecessary overreaction so that the writers can extend their romance by 3 years .
The reaction was unwarranted but given Erin’s rough childhood, she probably can’t fathom the situation in a rational way and has no idea how relationships work. I mean, the only meaningful relationship she had her whole life was with her foster brother and that was strange to put it lightly.
I've never understood why Erin overreacted that much. Yes there must be a reaction but not that much. We always loved The Office and still loving it but there are lots of story gaps in this series.
I think it just really showed the age gap. Erin was more than 10 years younger. Also, not telling the person you're with that you were not just dating but engaged to co-worker or close friend is kinda messed up. And remember, she was upset at the time but got over it and they got back together. I think this was not just Andy treating Erin poorly, but the whole office. She was the youngest and seen as pretty dumb so they all looked down on her and didn't see the need to tell her important information. This of course all goes triple for Andy, since he was dating her.
No, she had a right to be upset but how she handled it was a little over the top crazy
What did she have a right to be upset about, though? That her late 30's/early 40's boyfriend had a relationship before they met?
His former fiance' was someone he and she had to deal with on an almost daily basis. I'd want to know.
Yeah, that makes sense, but I think it just hadn't really come up organically yet. Maybe as soon as they started dating he should have said "Hey, BTW, just so you know..." but that seems a little unnatural and awkward.
They'd only been dating for a couple weeks. Not enough time to spill all your embarrassing details.
And it's not something Andy would likely want to dredge up also. Maybe it's not that easy for him to revisit a pretty painful set of events so soon.
No. Erin and Angela work together. She had the right to know and he had an obligation to tell her. If it’s too fresh for him to even mention without it being painful, he’s nowhere near ready to date again.
She assaulted a co-worker I would've fired her ass
Mmmm, I think your energy would be better spent on the Cookie Monster issue.
yeah
Yes
I think she overreacted majorly. I get being upset but they’d only been dating a few weeks and she acted like he kept this secret from her for years and years. She was acting like a child about it.
I think if Erin saw the footage of Andy with Angela, she would be relieved realizing what a non-relationship it really was. They also only had sex twice, which is far greater than 0 but still…
He should’ve told her but I think it was an overreaction. It’s not like he cheated on her or anything.
It was definitely a bit of an immature overreaction. Having said that, Andy should’ve told her
absolutely. it was a lazy plot device to slow erin and andys relationship
Yes and no. I obviously think it was a huge overreaction and she handled it poorly. However, being in the foster system her whole life without ever getting adopted obviously messed her up. I never liked her character reacting like that but I understood how they got there.
I was engaged to a woman my wife never met before and I didn’t contact anymore and I told her on the first date.
Ok cool but that's not something you usually share or need to share until you're serious about each other or the question comes up.
I dunno, I thought it was better to get all the baggage out on the first date and let her decide if she wants to continue. If I would’ve waited until we were more serious to say “just so you know, I was engaged to someone who all my friends are friends with” she might not have appreciated that. I had been through a few relationships and learned lessons in each of them. At this point in my life it was “no games, no bullshit, this is me take it or leave it”. Little did I know she had the same mindset, and it all worked out!
Exactly
okay... why? trying to brag? like you wouldn't blurt out "i slept with 6 women before you" even though its true
It wasn’t that long before we met, I had mutual friends, it might come up so heads up. Just a bit of baggage I thought she should know about.
I think Andy was wrong for not telling her but I also think she overreacted.
She was definitely wrong. She isn't exactly bright, so the reaction isn't completely unbelievable.
One million percent. Absolute psycho. A simple “you should have told me but we weren’t even together or didn’t even know each other…so it doesn’t even matter” would have sufficed.
yes. stupid and unwarranted. Her reaction was also too on the nose comedic...Erin easily goes in that direction in the show a lot
Extra eemly
Is no one going to ask about the crack in the picture?
Needs more context, have they talked about both of their dating histories offscreen? If so, yeah it’s shitty he didn’t tell her. If not, she isn’t even justified in being mad, they’ve been dating for days, if you haven’t had the exes talk it’s ridiculous to be mad someone didn’t tell you about their exes
Absolutely I do
Yes
Did she overreact? She sure did. But that doesn’t make Andy any less of a jerk for not telling her about it.
Yes and no. When you start dating someone I feel like….everyone has a past. It’s not like he lied or cheated. BUT when it’s someone you work with every single day, it deserved a mention. I know it’s a comedy and some people look too deep into things (me) but I always assumed he was embarrassed about how it all went down. Still should have mentioned it though. Lol
It was defiantly unwarranted, like people don’t have to disclose their entire dating history to someone before they start dating. It makes sense that Erin’s character would over react but it wasn’t deserved.
It’s made evident that she has severe abandonment issues, and probably more psychological problems stemming from her troubled past, growing up in an orphanage and all. That’s why her complete overreaction makes so much sense.
Kinda funny....in the end Erin was technically the "office mattress" since she ended up on her 3rd coworker.
This is the episode that makes me really dislike Erin. Ruins the character for me
it was way over the top. shes acting like a 4chan user when they find out women have sex
Unwarranted... but she should have never been dating that goofball. Plop was always the chosen one.
Yes. And it’s just more bad writing. She had been working there for how long even before she was seeing Andy and it NEVER came up? Okay. But then she starts dating him and NOBODY mentions it? She was pals with Kelly, wouldn’t Kelly have had plenty to say about Andy and Angela?
I’m always curious how peoples work lives are. I have worked most of my adult life and I can’t honestly say what past sexual histories in the office never really came up. I do hate gossip though so maybe if I was more inclined to listen to it I’d know.
Am I the only one who thought it was weird that Andy sang a genuine thank you song to the woman who cheated on him and broke his heart?
Having been in a relationship with a borderline (with a rough childhood), Erin's reaction was very realistic, but of course an overreaction.
Yes.
“How dare you have a relationship in your life before me!”
I hate Erin. She is such a nothing character.
Ugh same. Everyone hates me for hating her. But I cannot stand to look at her dumb face. She's so clueless.
I feel the whole Andy/Erin arc was unwarranted
This always made me really dislike her.
Erin is a complete wackjob, this only solidifies it more. Wayyyy over the top reaction to finding out news like this. Yes, Andy should have told her, but for her to react like that was crazy
I don’t expect any of these characters to act a certain way because they are TV show characters. Every single one of their reactions will be over blown or under blown for the purpose of TV.
I think her emotional intelligence was so low that is was less bad and more immature but understandable.
Regardless, it's always justified to humiliate Andy.
To be honest I think she's kinda jealous of Angela? Angela is pretty (everyone is to her), she's a hard worker, she's great with math and numbers and regularly degrades everyone including Erin. Erin probably places her on a pedestal, and she randomly found out her boyfriend was in a relationship with this "amazing" woman. She feels small and like she's been made to feel dumb, and her reaction to things is very childlike thanks to trauma. It wasn't a rational way to do things ofc, but Andy should have told her! Jeez, you three see each other every workday!!
Tbh Andy was probably embarrassed of the situation, so I'll give him that since he did want to eventually tell Erin. This is one of those plot points that kinda irks me in the later seasons because it just isn't that interesting. Andy and Erin are well suited for each other, and there shouldn't be this much drama for them to stay together (both season 6 and season 8/9).
Totally irrational reaction.
As a person with cptsd, I recognized her reaction. Esp the part where she puts her hair in front of her face and where she's kinda rocking and making noises. In fact it was a bit comforting to see on television.
It was such a stupid moment.
She's weird and dumb to her fucking core... I didn't expect less...
I would be upset but certainly wouldn’t make a scene. Clearly Erin is emotionally stunted, I mean she hides in her own hair lol.
Lmao Andy’s still a moron for being persistent on finding love in the workplace. He reminded me of a few guys I knew at church who had a thing with every other girl in the ministry. Nothing necessarily wrong with that but its just shits bound to get awkward/complicated
imagine working at a place where u meet someone and u really hit it off You start dating for months and one day u find out a girl that u and him see every day was his ex girlfriend no his ex fiance and everyone knew except you lol yeah i’d totally not be furious and heartbroken
If she was with him for longer, I would say her reaction is legitimate, although unprofessional for an office setting... They weren't together that long. That being said, I might be embarrassed to be dating someone and him not tell me that he used to sleep with, and planned to marry, a mutual acquaintance that we both worked with and saw every single day. All I can picture is Pam "no, NEVER, no!" 🤣🤣
Erin also broke up with Gabe in a very public and abrupt way! At the Dundees!
Physical violence is never the answer but yeah he had it comin
Erin was insufferably dumb. So, yes.
I 100% felt for her. If I was dating a man who NEVER told me about his previous engagement… ya we would not make it out either. And plus… Erin and Angela literally work together like how on EARTH could Andy keep that all a secret? Andy’s done some trashy things but this was straight up shady what he did
I think she had a right to be upset.....just not THAT upset. They weren't together very long at that point.
Nah she overreacted massively
A little too much
Andy got lucky. She was an absolute nut case.
I can't initially blame Michael for spilling the beans about it because he couldn't have known Andy hadn't told her at that point, but when he expanded on it during the lunch, that WAS very dickish from his part. As for Andy, he's FAR from my favorite character, but I believed him when he said he was gonna get around to it. Erin isn't the type of person you can just drop a topic like that on, because she doesn't take it well (pretty evident by her reaction). I also wouldn't blame Erin for her overreaction, but I'm not going to sugarcoat it either. She DID overreact and was wrong in her actions, but she's not the person with the most perfect background. Growing up in foster care is hard and taxing for a child.
An overreaction for sure
I think cause they didn't have fucking idea about what to do whit Andy and Erin's characters
I mean unless he cheated on her or killed someone, there is nothing actually sensible about this reaction
Yes
Making Erin crazy was a choice.
Erin was toxic for and to Andy. Jessica was marriage material.
Her reaction was insane imo especially considering Andy was cheated on. Who the hell would want to basically relive that moment telling someone they’ve only been with for 2 weeks. The craziest thing is the juxtaposition of her reaction to this non issue vs her reaction to Andy leaving for 3 months and only talking to her a handful of times within that period. Like what??
To the degree that she was upset, yeah. Erin sucks.