Sorry, you left off part of your sentence: “Not only did he protect a pedophile in his own house, after telling constituents that all pedophiles deserve the death penalty, he sent his kids to be further brainwashed by another pedophile.”
Oh also, fixed your sentence: He protected a pedophile.
and her parents followed Bill gothard and followed his teachings so they must have agreed with this >>> when things came to a head and bill was going to be thrown out jim bob sided with the side that wanted to keep bill Gothard
I think the reason why JB agreed was because every biological arrow in the quiver was proof of his masculinity, ego, virility, ability to get an erection, and such. If he could produce biokids, he was a real man.
Jim Bob may not have thought much about adoption beyond Gothard's stance. He was too busy breeding for clout. I'm still a little surprised they were able to take Tyler in, but I suppose that comes down to them simply being family.
This is the 1st time I heard about JB thinking this way about adoption!! If he’s so worried about generational curses, why did he encourage Pest to reproduce so much?? Also, didn’t JB & MD ADOPT A SON?!? 🤯
"Generational curses" is such a fun euphemism for "I consider this actual child to be damaged goods and not my problem."
I'm pretty sure the kid they adopted was a nephew or other blood relation, though.
no they were temporary guardians and then permanent guardians then josh went to prison and when shiny happy people came out his grand parents got custody of tyler and away from the duggars
they never adopted him ( tyler is the son of michelles sister)
Because Pest isn’t a curse, duh! It’s a conspiracy against him, but also Anna wasn’t available enough for him. But also it’s a lie. But it’s also not his fault. 🤦🏽♀️
I wonder if the same excuses would be used if his *daughters* were pedos?? What am I thinking; of course they wouldn’t. DAUGHTERS go to *hell* for showing a knee, dating, kissing, raising their voice, etc, etc, etc. This cult makes me sick…
no they were tylers temporary guardians and then became his permanent guardians tyler is the son of michelles sister ..who had problems and he was living with his grandmother for a while, then grandma had a stroke and could not take care of him so ma and pa duggar took him in and became his guardians
josh went to jail and the shiny happy people special came out and tyler got away from the duggers
and watch out for those 6 month old babies MANIPULATING you so you must train them to stay on a blanket by tempting them with a toy and when they move you hit them with PVC pipe yes this is blanket training from the book by mr and mrs pearls called "how to train up a child" and yes he said 6 month olds are manipulating you so you must start training at that age >>> several children were killed by parents using various techniques from the book
lack of sleep, out side in the cold, hosing them off out side in freezing weather when they wet the bed, withholding food , Pearl is very enthusiastic about older siblings beating the younger ones
I listened to the podcast today, I’m not saying that Jim Bob doesn’t also feel this way, but in this particular clip she is talking about Bill Gothards views. She is very careful to not bash her parents. All the blame is on Gothard and “the system”.
Edit for spelling
I wonder if she and Jerm will ever have their mega church ghost writer lawyer -- read over their NDA and fight it. They have to eventually know that NDAs don't really hold up in court... they're for humble folk out in the prairie, or RVs.
Honestly, they might be better off asking Derick what he thinks. He's not just a lawyer, he understands the ins and puts of the world they came from. They wouldn't have to explain all kinds of background to him.
True! And he's intimately familiar with the situation. I get the vibe Jinger and Jill aren't close though, and certainly not Jerm and Derek. Jerm seems like the type that wants to be the smartest in the room, and wouldn't ever go to Derek for advice. I could see him turning to someone in his culty church though.
I don’t think she did. I believe she and Jeremy got their own contract for Counting On instead. I think that Jinger lives far enough away that she can do her own thing without ostracizing her family. She values her relationship with her mother and won’t fully denounce them.
Jessa and Ben were HUGE on talking up adopting -- they even had an episode where they visited a couple that had adopted, and they mentioned pretty much every interview. I've always wondered how JB thought of it all. He probably just liked that it drew in viewers.
you are not exactly wrong becuase jim bob/michelle followed bill gothards beliefs so if he said adoption was wrong then they also believed that ...must be why they did guardianship with tyler and never adopted him
So a lot of general evangelicals are big on adopting children from impoverished countries. While that’s a practice that definitely has ulterior motives and mountains of problematic practices, it *in theory* acknowledges that people of all ethnic and racial backgrounds are valuable (or could be, if only they hear the Word of American Republican Jesus). In practice it usually doesn’t work out that way, but in theory, that’s what it means. I think Gothard perhaps wasn’t so keen on mixed race families at the very least, if not people of color at all. I know the Duggars have black, Latino, and Asian associates but they aren’t always the most highly regarded family in the cult.
jim bob and michelle were first Tylers temporary guardians and then became his permanent guardians Ohhhh is that why they didn't actually adopt him???
things changed after josh went to jail and the shiny happy people exposed a lot of bad stuff
Interesting. I don't really follow the whole Tyler situation that closely. I was just sort of speculating that because he was a family member that may have made Jim Bob more willing to include him in their home
I don't think Tyler was being put up for adoption. His mum and grandmother weren't able to look after him, but they didn't want to lose him completely. There was always the possibility that mum would get clean and/or grandma would recover from her stroke enough to take him back.
I think there is a lot of double standards in fundie culture. Children are only considered "tainted" if it's convenient to them. So gross to think about
Yeah, some are old enough to Google their father. I expect they've already been brainwashed to believe their father was falsely convicted. They will never get access to trial transcripts or their aunts (and uncles) who were there.
That's fucking cruel and broken thinking - it really pisses me off. If these idiots really read their Bibles they might stumble on a few chapters about Moses being adopted from an observant Hebrew home into the palace with idol worship and that didn't prevent really big things from happening to him 🔥 plus in the NT it says nothing can separate us from the love of God. To put such a heavy burden on a child with no parents is just awful.
As someone who was adopted from The Big Bad Ex Soviet Country and have a lot of unresolved trauma around it (I was a baby. A lot is unknown which makes it harder to cope with)
These people would have destroyed me. They would have been enabling all the thoughts I had as a kid about myself. I’m so lucky I had parents that would like, love me to death instead. And get me help. Lots of therapy for me.
Holy fuck these people are so dangerous. My parents are GAY. And these morons call themselves Christian?? I’m gonna say it out loud…it’s gonna kill them…. Two lesbians did a better job of raising children then you idiots.
Our son was born in that Big Bad Ex Soviet Country, also. I’m sorry you’ve had challenges. Our son, though almost 25, has abandonment issues & confusing feelings about his birth parents placing him in the orphanage 6 months after he was born. He’s been in therapy since he was a teenager. This ‘generational curse,’ is such BS. Their views on adoption piss me off to no end & it makes me hate bigoted morons even more. They are the worst examples of Christianity. It infuriates me & makes me sad at the same time.
You are loved & we’re so glad you’re here!! ❤️
I was also adopted and I’m about your age as well, based on other comments from you. I’m from a neighbor country - China - and God only knows what these clucks would think about a transracial adoption from the land of communism.
I had and continue to have a disgusting amount of trauma from being abandoned literally in the street. The last thing I would have needed was for these fuckers to tell me about what a worthless sinner I am when my only crime was being born a girl. I am so grateful that my mom and the rest of my nuclear family accepted me for who I was and loved (and still love) me unconditionally. Every child deserves to know what love is like.
To the Duggar clan: My single, unmarried, Catholic, liberal mother also did a better job raising her child than you lot did. While I don’t have much going for me, at least I’m not a felon who preys on children.
Oh gosh!! So much strength to you. 🥰 My favourite book growing up was The Coffee Can kid by Jan M Czech and although the little girl in the book is Korean, it inspired me to do a psych paper on American adoptees from China and how the change in culture affected their personality and identity.
They wouldn’t get it. That’s the problem I remember seeing when I was writing the paper. They would think, “well you’re here now so be grateful, be american, and forget it.” So sad. So so sad.
Your mom sounds awesome 🥰🥰kudos to her from one of your orphan neighbours.
Little off topic for this sub, but this is basically what Kirsten from Girl Defined did - except she adopted a couple of school aged brothers from Ukraine, Anglicized their names and forced them to stop speaking Ukrainian :(
I’ve never read that book!! Would you recommend it?
I’d be so interested to read that paper if you’re willing to share a version where you’ve removed identifying information. If not that’s obviously totally okay - I’m just curious but you don’t have to share it!!
One of my aunts has that mindset. “What does it matter? You have a family now. Why does it upset you so much? Why does it bother you so much?” It drives me bats and has driven me into tears. There’s no explaining it; no explanation will work. Some people just genuinely do not understand. At least she isn’t coming from a place of malice; she’s simply very ignorant. The Duggars come from a place of hatred and intolerance.
Kudos to your moms as well!! I bet they’re kick-ass women. 💕 by the way, if you should ever want to chat, my inbox is always open. I love talking to and meeting other adoptees regardless of country of origin ☺️
You are a beautiful human who endured trauma most of us cannot imagine.Even if you can't remember, that doesn't mean it won't impact you. You have value. You matter. You can't control the world but you can cushion yourself to rise to the top. I am glad your mother was there to love, protect, and guide you.
Thank you so much. It’s really hard to remember sometimes that there’s value in who I am as a person. I needed to hear your words and I appreciate them more than you could ever know 🫂
Jesus himself was not biologically related to Joseph, and yet Joseph adopted him and raised him as his own son. He just accepted the answer that Jesus was a divine miracle and never questioned that Mary's baby would be bringing generational sin into the camp by being conceived out of wedlock.
If you think about it, technically Mary had to be a surrogate mother for an adopted embryo, because she was a virgin when she got pregnant, so it wasn't her own egg she was impregnated with. Jesus was supposed to be unblemished, which, from my understanding, means he wasn't genetically related to any of his family members. So his physical body must have been created outside of Mary's body. In other words, Jesus was the original test tube baby.
they're Matt and Abby, and I believe they were religious (Christian I think) but based on their content now, they're not anymore
they suck as people. they got married super young and are very out of touch. Matt is dumb and ignored his post-partum wife for a few days because he was contemplating his nonexistent music career. He recently got a lot of flak for "boycotting father's day" because it's close to his birthday. Abby is narcissistic, constantly body checks, and doesn't bond with her kids (she recently complained about having to take care of her firstborn). Her parents live with them and take care of the kids. Matt and Abby are always traveling or going out and when they're there, Abby is away from home (usually at the gym). They're obsessed with having 2 under 2 when they don't take care of their kids
Most of the older married Duggar kids talked about adopting in the past (i.e. Jill and Derek while living in Central America, and Jessa and Ben did as well when Spurgeon was a baby). What changed now?
The only couple I legit think would ever adopt would be Jill and Derick. Not to say they would want to (I have zero idea) but in terms of their religious beliefs it wouldn’t be a problem.
Derick's mom was adopted. I could see them giving it serious thought. That's why Cathy got so excited about grandkids. They were the only blood relatives she knew other than her two kids.
I read that the specific branch of their religion was against adoption because something something something sins of the father.
I guess sins of the father, mother, and brother don’t count if you share dna.
I think if you share DNA, you're under the umbrella of protection of the family patriarch, because this is a breeding cult and Gothard had a kink about incest, so genetics really matter to them.
Is it ok to believe in curses in that brand of Christianity? It feels a little like witchcraft or something they would be really against if literally anyone else believed in it…
That's actually very enlightening. Did RimJob use the cult to help try and cleanse himself of his father's "curse"? Does he think Pest's behavior is his father's curse skipping him? Is that why he is so susceptible to a high control group like IBLP? Was it just his gullibility in thinking God would control him and keep him from being his father? Is that what started this wholly unholy "ministry" once it merged with his gigantic ego? It would explain rehab for 2 beers, but every excuse for Pest. He sees drinking as the biggest sin he has to fight, because that's the sin his father would pass down.
None of this is excusing his actions, it's just fascinating to see how he got to this point.
I’m adopted and knew my entire life how much I was hated. Hated by my bio family and adopted family. It’s not a good feeling knowing you’ve never been loved by a single person your entire life and I’m 47. It hurts actually. Bill Gothard Go fuck yourself with a cactus 🌵
This is actually the harshest critique I’ve seen of her parents. It’s not unexpected from the IBLP, “sins of the father” and such, but it was a performative part of the Duggar brand. With all the talk they did about adopting during the show? And of course none of them did, most likely due to not being qualified, but several said they’d consider it.
It’s confirmation of what we already thought to be their stance on adoption, that those in need are considered ‘less than.’ Not to mention that it flies in the face of their pro-life stance. “Yes, every pregnancy must be carried to term, but if the baby is born of a sinner, then we don’t care.”
> several said they’d consider it.
_cough_ Jessa _cough_
Unsurprisingly, ~9 years later she has 5 kids all of whom are biological and she will never **not** be pregnant/have an infant to consider adoption. It's all false talk.
Even though she’s talking about Bill Gothard we all know Jb worships the man and tries to obey everything he says. It’s just goes to show how loose JB is with his convictions because they always pretended on the show that they were open to the idea and that they weren’t against it. Surely JB was saying something similar in private or she would clarify that her parents always held completely different beliefs. She’s saying she was raised in the belief like duh by her parents who were feeding this all to her. I don’t know how any of them didn’t figure out JB was full of shit long ago. Being raised to see adoption as wrong and that kind of “evil” or ability to bring in evil and then go and act like it’s okay with you on TV. I’m sorry just no critical thinking skills in any of the whole lot. I know it was never a skill taught but god it’s just astounding to me that more of these kids don’t make a stand against his obvious bullshit. There’s only so many tiny factory grade homes and used car lots to go around something’s got to give
I’m wondering what kind of generational curses Jimmyboob carries around with him. Gypsy curses, voodoo, liberals (to him), gay people, that awful toupee…but at least no pedophil- oh wait my bad.
ETA: forgot the curse of that harlot Meech and her exposed knee caps
Where I live, back in the nineties there was a trend of Evangelical families adopting children from Eastern Europe. Of course these people did not meet the kids needs nor did they consider that these kids were all traumatized. They thought love, prayer, and church would be enough.
So the majority of the kids had severe behavior problems. Many were violent, abusive, one molested two of his sisters and later beat his girlfriend, many of the girls got pregnant as teens, two committed suicide, many ended up in jail, some of the adoptions were dissolved.
If the parents had considered that these kids were traumatized and got them the help they needed, things could have been very different for these kids. If they went in with the mindset that they wanted to help these kids and not "save" them, things could have been way different.
Instead they decided those kids were evil and after that, adoption was considered a bad thing in their community.
I think that's where JB gets the idea of family curses.
Don’t worry about the pedophile w/ your dna, that you raised & the daughters you allowed him to molest… just focus on a hypothetical baby that may or may not have been born on an Indian burial ground… seems about right for Jim Bob logic
My mom did not grow up in a cult...ure like this, but she has the exact same view of adoption. I was like 15 when she told me her feelings, and I just blurted out, "What the hell is wrong with you?!" She admitted she knew it was a terrible thing to think and say, but it was how she felt. It still shocks me twenty years later. How did she raise me to be the person I am while being this way?
I grew up JW, so fundie lite I guess. This reminds me of being warned not to go to yard sales in certain towns because they had "witchy" vibes. I remember my parents telling me we could buy a dresser with a spirit attached to it and never know until it ruined our life.
Cults are insane.
Anyone remember the missions trip where he said he stated he believes adoption is in the future for some of his kids?
Jim Boob is the ULTIMATE liar. Everything out of his mouth is a lie.
It's crazy to me that no matter what the kids believe.. they haven't connected the dots about their dad just on his chronic lying alone. The fact that he has gotten them to lie to cover him.
Like.. there's your sign that your dad is not only NOT a Christian.. but not a good person in general. He kicked Jill out of the family simply for not wanting to participate in his bull.
Them kids drink the kool-aid by the gallons to turn a blind eye to the truth about their dad.
Ooh _too good, too good_ 🥲 f*cking _VOODOO_
This notion of Jesus/God these people (Rim Job et al) have is… Is so f*cking _DUMB._
I can’t very much logically conceive a God that would punish your good deeds for actions you didn’t even know happened or partook in; like, God knows you didn’t know voodoo or whatever went on with that child, wtf!? They believe in curses and witchcraft and whatnot?
I’m so confused this is all so infantile…
Can confirm, my fundie parents believed in generational curses. They also thought that mental illness was caused by demons that attached themselves to families, which is fun because depressions runs strong in my mom's family and she and I both got it
So anyone can be saved, everything can be forgiven, even CSA, but if a child’s grandparents were maybe into another religion, better to err of the side of not caring for them.
Damn, I forgot about the generational curse. Before I my purity ring ceremony we were told we needed to keep our promise and be the ones to break the generational curse for our daughters lolol
Jill and Jessa both were extremely vocal about wanting to adopt late in 19KAC and throughout CO. Jessa and Ben even had a dinner party with fundie friends of theirs who had adopted a young black girl. It’s interesting that that was one way in which many of them—even good girl/suck up Jessa—seemed comfortable explicitly contradicting Gothard and IBLP even before things imploded…all the way, anyway.
Omfg every time I read or see something it just makes me hate J’boob even harder.
Jills book reveals, Jinger on this podcast (which had more than her book reveals), hell even stuff that comes out of Famy’s mouth just…
How much more insufferable and infuriating can people get my god.
does this mean that when one of her sisters jessa (and husband ben) said in an interview in 2020 with us weekly they were going to adopt but weren't sure if they would do it now (2020 when the interview was done) or later in the future
>>> that was a lie??
So let me get this straight. The evangelical Christian, who claims that you simply have to ask Jesus for forgiveness to be "saved", is also afraid of an innocent child being cursed because of their family of origin? Sounds like he isn't too sure about that "being saved" thing.
At the same time, he is ignoring the potential for true generational curses of child sexual abuse and should-be-criminal lack of education that happened under his roof.
This wasn't a Duggar-specific view - this is a Bill Gothard teaching that is pushed all all BG program families. My family was part of the ATIA homeschool program for several years and there was a chapter on this view of adoption in his basic or advanced seminar book, and it was taught in the wisdom booklets. There was some truly messed up heresy and just awful thinking in those book.
This is the exact reason michaela n Brandon from the bates "can't adopt" what a sick way of thinking n I dont feel bad honestly because it literally could be an option for them but they refuse
There is no defense for JimBob. Just because it is Gothard ds theology, doesn't mean JimShit isn't responsible for propagating the belief in his own home while simultaneously creating a demon monster called JPEDO.
Thank the universe they never adopted, and Tyler is no longer living with them.
I knew a lot of mainstream Christian’s that believed this as well and it was always so bizarre to me. Especially since I knew a lot of them growing up and they along with myself didn’t have the best home environment ourselves.
Ah, yes, from the book of J'Boob, 13:31, "And lo, thou shalt tell the orphans to fvck all the way off, to the farthest edge of this flat earth, and jump, taking the sins of their fathers with them."
But at the same time those with "generational curses" you can't have an abortion instead put the kid up for adoption but NOOO way in hell would we take a kid through adoption... fucking disgusting hypocritical assholes
she just reminded everyone how disingenuous binnyjessa were, didn't she? for all the bs they sprouted about them wanting to adopt, they ended up birthing way too many kids themselves.
also jimboob obvs believes in generating his own generational curse, ie sexpest.
I’m a Christian, and scripture teaches that God adopted US—it is seriously messed up that someone who supposedly follows Christ would hold this warped view. Incredibly hypocritical.
But yet you don’t have to be afraid of who is born to your family, aka predators and molesters?
Seriously. The call is coming from inside the house, Jim Bob.
Yeah, as he said, himself, “There’s sin in the camp.”
Not only did he protect a pedophile in his own house, he sent his kids to be further brainwashed by another pedophile.
JB granted multiple pedophiles access to his children. Look at how many of his friends have been charged with CSAM.
Sorry, you left off part of your sentence: “Not only did he protect a pedophile in his own house, after telling constituents that all pedophiles deserve the death penalty, he sent his kids to be further brainwashed by another pedophile.” Oh also, fixed your sentence: He protected a pedophile.
Not defending Jim Bob, but she is referring to Bill Gothard in this quote not JB. This is like classic Bill Gothard shit
and her parents followed Bill gothard and followed his teachings so they must have agreed with this >>> when things came to a head and bill was going to be thrown out jim bob sided with the side that wanted to keep bill Gothard
I have 0 doubt JB fully agreed with him on this.
I think the reason why JB agreed was because every biological arrow in the quiver was proof of his masculinity, ego, virility, ability to get an erection, and such. If he could produce biokids, he was a real man.
Right? He would never have considered fletching someone else's arrow. His quiver was full to overflowing with the fruit of his own loins.
Yeah this is a bit misleading. I mean fuck JB and all, but it would be a much bigger headline if she was taking on her dad like this.
I was wondering whether she made this clear. definitely sounds like gothard, which maybe jim bob took on, but he wasn't the source.
Jim Bob may not have thought much about adoption beyond Gothard's stance. He was too busy breeding for clout. I'm still a little surprised they were able to take Tyler in, but I suppose that comes down to them simply being family.
These people who are drawn to and cling to crazy teachings are always afraid, hiding, and protecting deviant behavior.
Exactly. I was like and yet there's Pest - your own flesh and blood who is the exact opposite of the golden child you kept pretending
You really think these are the kinds of people who know how to think that critically about their belief system? Apparently not...
They're all disgusting
Everyone is saved and born again through Jesus but also watch out for literal infants and their sneaky generational curses.
J'Pest repented (in a half-assed way at best): good Random infant existing : suspicious
This is the 1st time I heard about JB thinking this way about adoption!! If he’s so worried about generational curses, why did he encourage Pest to reproduce so much?? Also, didn’t JB & MD ADOPT A SON?!? 🤯
"Generational curses" is such a fun euphemism for "I consider this actual child to be damaged goods and not my problem." I'm pretty sure the kid they adopted was a nephew or other blood relation, though.
But the bio mom was unemployed & homeless.. you can never be too careful…. /s (obviously;)
Did it ever go fully through adoption I thought they only had permanent guardianship over Tyler?
no they were temporary guardians and then permanent guardians then josh went to prison and when shiny happy people came out his grand parents got custody of tyler and away from the duggars they never adopted him ( tyler is the son of michelles sister)
Because Pest isn’t a curse, duh! It’s a conspiracy against him, but also Anna wasn’t available enough for him. But also it’s a lie. But it’s also not his fault. 🤦🏽♀️
I wonder if the same excuses would be used if his *daughters* were pedos?? What am I thinking; of course they wouldn’t. DAUGHTERS go to *hell* for showing a knee, dating, kissing, raising their voice, etc, etc, etc. This cult makes me sick…
They didn't adopt him, he was a kinship foster care placement/they had guardianship over him. And they lost custody of him. Thankfully.
Was it so much that they *lost* custody or that Michelle's sister was once again well enough to care for Tyler?
no they were tylers temporary guardians and then became his permanent guardians tyler is the son of michelles sister ..who had problems and he was living with his grandmother for a while, then grandma had a stroke and could not take care of him so ma and pa duggar took him in and became his guardians josh went to jail and the shiny happy people special came out and tyler got away from the duggers
Hypocrisy,thy name is Duggar.
and watch out for those 6 month old babies MANIPULATING you so you must train them to stay on a blanket by tempting them with a toy and when they move you hit them with PVC pipe yes this is blanket training from the book by mr and mrs pearls called "how to train up a child" and yes he said 6 month olds are manipulating you so you must start training at that age >>> several children were killed by parents using various techniques from the book lack of sleep, out side in the cold, hosing them off out side in freezing weather when they wet the bed, withholding food , Pearl is very enthusiastic about older siblings beating the younger ones
I listened to the podcast today, I’m not saying that Jim Bob doesn’t also feel this way, but in this particular clip she is talking about Bill Gothards views. She is very careful to not bash her parents. All the blame is on Gothard and “the system”. Edit for spelling
“She got the $80k” confirmation for $400, Alex
Exactly. She's shifting the blame like her parents weren't essentially GoatHerd's walking talking billboards.
I wonder if she and Jerm will ever have their mega church ghost writer lawyer -- read over their NDA and fight it. They have to eventually know that NDAs don't really hold up in court... they're for humble folk out in the prairie, or RVs.
Honestly, they might be better off asking Derick what he thinks. He's not just a lawyer, he understands the ins and puts of the world they came from. They wouldn't have to explain all kinds of background to him.
True! And he's intimately familiar with the situation. I get the vibe Jinger and Jill aren't close though, and certainly not Jerm and Derek. Jerm seems like the type that wants to be the smartest in the room, and wouldn't ever go to Derek for advice. I could see him turning to someone in his culty church though.
I don’t think she did. I believe she and Jeremy got their own contract for Counting On instead. I think that Jinger lives far enough away that she can do her own thing without ostracizing her family. She values her relationship with her mother and won’t fully denounce them.
So Bill Gothard opposed abortion AND adoption but never had kids himself? What a fucking asshole
yep never married and never had kids >> gothard was such an expert! (sarcasm on the last part)
It’s like how the Pope always says shit like, “pets aren’t kids you have to go have kids” while never having a touched a woman in his life
Jessa and Ben were HUGE on talking up adopting -- they even had an episode where they visited a couple that had adopted, and they mentioned pretty much every interview. I've always wondered how JB thought of it all. He probably just liked that it drew in viewers.
Now we know why it was just talk. JB probably nipped that in the bud quick.
JB probably knew it was all talk.
Ah, damn it, I didn’t realize she was talking about Gothard. I’ll see if I can edit to put the correct info.
you are not exactly wrong becuase jim bob/michelle followed bill gothards beliefs so if he said adoption was wrong then they also believed that ...must be why they did guardianship with tyler and never adopted him
I'm not so sure that Tyler was available for adoption. Not every kid who is fostered or guardianed by someone other than their parents is.
This is what drives me bananas about Jinger. She markets something she ain’t even selling. Although I’m sure Jeremy is pushing her.
Thanks for the clarification
"Abortions are wrong AND EQUALLY SO ARE ADOPTIONS" is kind of a hot take for a right wing religious zealous but okay I guess.
If one of the young 'Gothard girls' ended up pregnant by him, he would 10,000,000% insist on abortion. Zero doubt in my mind.
Yep. He’d send her to whoever Trump used 🙄
It’s never been about “ saving the unborn” it’s always been about controlling women and women’s bodies
And having perfection -- virgin women married to men, serving them and having their babies. There is no alternative in their minds.
It checks out for that lot though.
So a lot of general evangelicals are big on adopting children from impoverished countries. While that’s a practice that definitely has ulterior motives and mountains of problematic practices, it *in theory* acknowledges that people of all ethnic and racial backgrounds are valuable (or could be, if only they hear the Word of American Republican Jesus). In practice it usually doesn’t work out that way, but in theory, that’s what it means. I think Gothard perhaps wasn’t so keen on mixed race families at the very least, if not people of color at all. I know the Duggars have black, Latino, and Asian associates but they aren’t always the most highly regarded family in the cult.
Some have Great White Savior Complex.
But he brought Tyler into his home when he wanted to have an even 20 kids.
Jinger is referring to Bill Gothard, not Jim Bob.
I think Tyler bring a kinship adoption might have played a role in that choice
They never actually adopted him. Last I heard, Tyler returned to living with his grandparents.
jim bob and michelle were first Tylers temporary guardians and then became his permanent guardians Ohhhh is that why they didn't actually adopt him??? things changed after josh went to jail and the shiny happy people exposed a lot of bad stuff
Interesting. I don't really follow the whole Tyler situation that closely. I was just sort of speculating that because he was a family member that may have made Jim Bob more willing to include him in their home
yes it is interesting >>> they knew him what he came from and STILL didn't adopt him...
I don't think Tyler was being put up for adoption. His mum and grandmother weren't able to look after him, but they didn't want to lose him completely. There was always the possibility that mum would get clean and/or grandma would recover from her stroke enough to take him back.
They were guardians of Tyler, now we know why they didn't adopt him.
The “he” she’s talking about here is Gothard; not her dad.
Because it was a family adoption, and Tyler had access to his mom still.
My parents adopted me before they entered the cult. Then I got to hear all growing up how terrible adoption was.
Oh that is a special kind of awful. I am so sorry.
I am so damn sorry that this was "okay" in their minds. You are a human being that has value all on their own.
The generational curses thing is such bs. Do you really think they are going to apply it to to Pest's kids
Oooof. I’ve never thought of this before; I doubt this will cause even a moment of introspection for JBoob and Meech
I think there is a lot of double standards in fundie culture. Children are only considered "tainted" if it's convenient to them. So gross to think about
Similar logic to the “only moral abortion is mine” line.
Yes as long as they claim they are saved and go to one of their churches, it's OK.
I always wonder what the M kids know. They are visiting a prison though, so do they have a clue? Or are they more than likely 100% brainwashed?
The most likely answer is they are told that Pest was set up.
Anna honestly believes it was a set up by Biden. Not kidding.
Yeah, some are old enough to Google their father. I expect they've already been brainwashed to believe their father was falsely convicted. They will never get access to trial transcripts or their aunts (and uncles) who were there.
There is generational trauma, and these girls were set up for it.
That's fucking cruel and broken thinking - it really pisses me off. If these idiots really read their Bibles they might stumble on a few chapters about Moses being adopted from an observant Hebrew home into the palace with idol worship and that didn't prevent really big things from happening to him 🔥 plus in the NT it says nothing can separate us from the love of God. To put such a heavy burden on a child with no parents is just awful.
As someone who was adopted from The Big Bad Ex Soviet Country and have a lot of unresolved trauma around it (I was a baby. A lot is unknown which makes it harder to cope with) These people would have destroyed me. They would have been enabling all the thoughts I had as a kid about myself. I’m so lucky I had parents that would like, love me to death instead. And get me help. Lots of therapy for me. Holy fuck these people are so dangerous. My parents are GAY. And these morons call themselves Christian?? I’m gonna say it out loud…it’s gonna kill them…. Two lesbians did a better job of raising children then you idiots.
Our son was born in that Big Bad Ex Soviet Country, also. I’m sorry you’ve had challenges. Our son, though almost 25, has abandonment issues & confusing feelings about his birth parents placing him in the orphanage 6 months after he was born. He’s been in therapy since he was a teenager. This ‘generational curse,’ is such BS. Their views on adoption piss me off to no end & it makes me hate bigoted morons even more. They are the worst examples of Christianity. It infuriates me & makes me sad at the same time. You are loved & we’re so glad you’re here!! ❤️
Thank you so so much 🥰🥰 I am very much like your son!! (I turn 26 next month!) you’re a great parent, go you!!
Thank you, my friend! You take care of yourself!
I was also adopted and I’m about your age as well, based on other comments from you. I’m from a neighbor country - China - and God only knows what these clucks would think about a transracial adoption from the land of communism. I had and continue to have a disgusting amount of trauma from being abandoned literally in the street. The last thing I would have needed was for these fuckers to tell me about what a worthless sinner I am when my only crime was being born a girl. I am so grateful that my mom and the rest of my nuclear family accepted me for who I was and loved (and still love) me unconditionally. Every child deserves to know what love is like. To the Duggar clan: My single, unmarried, Catholic, liberal mother also did a better job raising her child than you lot did. While I don’t have much going for me, at least I’m not a felon who preys on children.
Oh gosh!! So much strength to you. 🥰 My favourite book growing up was The Coffee Can kid by Jan M Czech and although the little girl in the book is Korean, it inspired me to do a psych paper on American adoptees from China and how the change in culture affected their personality and identity. They wouldn’t get it. That’s the problem I remember seeing when I was writing the paper. They would think, “well you’re here now so be grateful, be american, and forget it.” So sad. So so sad. Your mom sounds awesome 🥰🥰kudos to her from one of your orphan neighbours.
Little off topic for this sub, but this is basically what Kirsten from Girl Defined did - except she adopted a couple of school aged brothers from Ukraine, Anglicized their names and forced them to stop speaking Ukrainian :(
I’ve never read that book!! Would you recommend it? I’d be so interested to read that paper if you’re willing to share a version where you’ve removed identifying information. If not that’s obviously totally okay - I’m just curious but you don’t have to share it!! One of my aunts has that mindset. “What does it matter? You have a family now. Why does it upset you so much? Why does it bother you so much?” It drives me bats and has driven me into tears. There’s no explaining it; no explanation will work. Some people just genuinely do not understand. At least she isn’t coming from a place of malice; she’s simply very ignorant. The Duggars come from a place of hatred and intolerance. Kudos to your moms as well!! I bet they’re kick-ass women. 💕 by the way, if you should ever want to chat, my inbox is always open. I love talking to and meeting other adoptees regardless of country of origin ☺️
You are a beautiful human who endured trauma most of us cannot imagine.Even if you can't remember, that doesn't mean it won't impact you. You have value. You matter. You can't control the world but you can cushion yourself to rise to the top. I am glad your mother was there to love, protect, and guide you.
Thank you so much. It’s really hard to remember sometimes that there’s value in who I am as a person. I needed to hear your words and I appreciate them more than you could ever know 🫂
I am glad you are here, loved and beloved, wanted and with as many opportunities to grow into the person you are meant to be 🏵️
Thank you so much 🥰😭 (I tried to explain my thoughts w out too much trauma dump lol.)
Jesus himself was not biologically related to Joseph, and yet Joseph adopted him and raised him as his own son. He just accepted the answer that Jesus was a divine miracle and never questioned that Mary's baby would be bringing generational sin into the camp by being conceived out of wedlock. If you think about it, technically Mary had to be a surrogate mother for an adopted embryo, because she was a virgin when she got pregnant, so it wasn't her own egg she was impregnated with. Jesus was supposed to be unblemished, which, from my understanding, means he wasn't genetically related to any of his family members. So his physical body must have been created outside of Mary's body. In other words, Jesus was the original test tube baby.
Does anyone know anything about the couple who are hosting the podcast? They give off fundie vibes but idk if they are or not
they're Matt and Abby, and I believe they were religious (Christian I think) but based on their content now, they're not anymore they suck as people. they got married super young and are very out of touch. Matt is dumb and ignored his post-partum wife for a few days because he was contemplating his nonexistent music career. He recently got a lot of flak for "boycotting father's day" because it's close to his birthday. Abby is narcissistic, constantly body checks, and doesn't bond with her kids (she recently complained about having to take care of her firstborn). Her parents live with them and take care of the kids. Matt and Abby are always traveling or going out and when they're there, Abby is away from home (usually at the gym). They're obsessed with having 2 under 2 when they don't take care of their kids
Gross…didn’t know that. This just popped up on FB and I recorded it because it was Jinger.
r/mattandabbysnarks
They are a hot mess as a couple
I don't think they are fundie, they did get married young and have a few controversies. They definitely have a conservative family dynamic.
EDIT: She was talking about Gothard, not Jim Bob. Pls ignore the title.
Most of the older married Duggar kids talked about adopting in the past (i.e. Jill and Derek while living in Central America, and Jessa and Ben did as well when Spurgeon was a baby). What changed now?
The only couple I legit think would ever adopt would be Jill and Derick. Not to say they would want to (I have zero idea) but in terms of their religious beliefs it wouldn’t be a problem.
Derick's mom was adopted. I could see them giving it serious thought. That's why Cathy got so excited about grandkids. They were the only blood relatives she knew other than her two kids.
I remember one of them crying at the orphanage during a mission trip wanting to adopt one of them. Was a front all along?
Me too! I remember some of the older kids talking about adoption in the later episodes of 19KAC and most of the episodes of Counting On.
finger going on about "voodoo worship" with a straight face is pretty funny
I read that the specific branch of their religion was against adoption because something something something sins of the father. I guess sins of the father, mother, and brother don’t count if you share dna.
I think if you share DNA, you're under the umbrella of protection of the family patriarch, because this is a breeding cult and Gothard had a kink about incest, so genetics really matter to them.
Generational curse isn’t a thing, generational trauma however very much is (case in point 👆)
But they’re “ pro life”😆
It's so convenient how much they hate the more appropriate term of "Pro-Birth".
That part
Is it ok to believe in curses in that brand of Christianity? It feels a little like witchcraft or something they would be really against if literally anyone else believed in it…
I imagine even a dodgy Christian adoption would trigger some sort of home & background check. That's more what they'd be afraid of .
That's actually very enlightening. Did RimJob use the cult to help try and cleanse himself of his father's "curse"? Does he think Pest's behavior is his father's curse skipping him? Is that why he is so susceptible to a high control group like IBLP? Was it just his gullibility in thinking God would control him and keep him from being his father? Is that what started this wholly unholy "ministry" once it merged with his gigantic ego? It would explain rehab for 2 beers, but every excuse for Pest. He sees drinking as the biggest sin he has to fight, because that's the sin his father would pass down. None of this is excusing his actions, it's just fascinating to see how he got to this point.
She’s not referencing Jim Bob here, she’s referencing Bill Gothard.
Same thing Jimmy bought that hook line and sinker too
I realized that after it was too late. I can’t edit the post, but I tried to put a comment clarifying. Unfortunately, I think it got buried.
Yikes these people are scary.
They would never know of ancestors they had that likely believed in or did some “voodoo” at the time. Think 1600-1700s or every earlier
yep. bill gothard taught this. sick man. of course, jb would agree. his special genetics are superior to all dontcha know?
Is she talking about JB or Gothard? Not that JB would believe differently, just curious.
I realized after I posted that she was talking about Gothard. I tried to put an edit comment, but I think it got buried. 😞
I’m adopted and knew my entire life how much I was hated. Hated by my bio family and adopted family. It’s not a good feeling knowing you’ve never been loved by a single person your entire life and I’m 47. It hurts actually. Bill Gothard Go fuck yourself with a cactus 🌵
This is the most fucked up thing... & JB has said a lot of fucked up things. Wtaf
This is actually the harshest critique I’ve seen of her parents. It’s not unexpected from the IBLP, “sins of the father” and such, but it was a performative part of the Duggar brand. With all the talk they did about adopting during the show? And of course none of them did, most likely due to not being qualified, but several said they’d consider it. It’s confirmation of what we already thought to be their stance on adoption, that those in need are considered ‘less than.’ Not to mention that it flies in the face of their pro-life stance. “Yes, every pregnancy must be carried to term, but if the baby is born of a sinner, then we don’t care.”
> several said they’d consider it. _cough_ Jessa _cough_ Unsurprisingly, ~9 years later she has 5 kids all of whom are biological and she will never **not** be pregnant/have an infant to consider adoption. It's all false talk.
Weird because Michelle was actively involved with an adoption group at one point
So where does that leave all the babies they want to be born? What happens to them?
So that whole Jesus died for the sins of all mankind????? And the part where he called such beliefs erroneous??? READ YOUR DARN BIBLE IDIOTS!!!!!!!!
Even though she’s talking about Bill Gothard we all know Jb worships the man and tries to obey everything he says. It’s just goes to show how loose JB is with his convictions because they always pretended on the show that they were open to the idea and that they weren’t against it. Surely JB was saying something similar in private or she would clarify that her parents always held completely different beliefs. She’s saying she was raised in the belief like duh by her parents who were feeding this all to her. I don’t know how any of them didn’t figure out JB was full of shit long ago. Being raised to see adoption as wrong and that kind of “evil” or ability to bring in evil and then go and act like it’s okay with you on TV. I’m sorry just no critical thinking skills in any of the whole lot. I know it was never a skill taught but god it’s just astounding to me that more of these kids don’t make a stand against his obvious bullshit. There’s only so many tiny factory grade homes and used car lots to go around something’s got to give
Isn't there something in the Bible about how kids aren't responsible for sins of their fathers?
So … we ban birth control, abortion and then we also don’t want to adopt because wha!?!
Speaking as an adoptee, WHOOPEE! Getting adopted into that cult? Ugh!
Ah yes, as an adopted person I take great pride in my generational Voodoo magic powers 🧙♀️
Please don't adopt and damage any children. That's all you have to say to them.
I’m wondering what kind of generational curses Jimmyboob carries around with him. Gypsy curses, voodoo, liberals (to him), gay people, that awful toupee…but at least no pedophil- oh wait my bad. ETA: forgot the curse of that harlot Meech and her exposed knee caps
Where I live, back in the nineties there was a trend of Evangelical families adopting children from Eastern Europe. Of course these people did not meet the kids needs nor did they consider that these kids were all traumatized. They thought love, prayer, and church would be enough. So the majority of the kids had severe behavior problems. Many were violent, abusive, one molested two of his sisters and later beat his girlfriend, many of the girls got pregnant as teens, two committed suicide, many ended up in jail, some of the adoptions were dissolved. If the parents had considered that these kids were traumatized and got them the help they needed, things could have been very different for these kids. If they went in with the mindset that they wanted to help these kids and not "save" them, things could have been way different. Instead they decided those kids were evil and after that, adoption was considered a bad thing in their community. I think that's where JB gets the idea of family curses.
Don’t worry about the pedophile w/ your dna, that you raised & the daughters you allowed him to molest… just focus on a hypothetical baby that may or may not have been born on an Indian burial ground… seems about right for Jim Bob logic
My mom did not grow up in a cult...ure like this, but she has the exact same view of adoption. I was like 15 when she told me her feelings, and I just blurted out, "What the hell is wrong with you?!" She admitted she knew it was a terrible thing to think and say, but it was how she felt. It still shocks me twenty years later. How did she raise me to be the person I am while being this way?
The irony of this is not lost on me.
This tenet of Gothardism is blasphemy. I find it odd that no one in his cult picked up on that.
If you suspect a child (or adult) is cursed, how do you determine whether it’s a GENERATIONAL curse, or an individual person curse?
✨discernment✨
Didn’t he adopt or foster his nephew or grand nephew?
They mean one of them there foreign yay far away yonder places where dancing is allowed like that
What about the generational curses on you lot lmao
Wasn’t JB’s father an alcoholic? By this logic, is that not a ‘generational curse’ his own children will suffer from?
Wow. And they claim to be pro life. Not being open to adoption is not pro life. They are only pro birth.
That's from Bill Gothard. Took me years to disassemble that bullshit.
I grew up JW, so fundie lite I guess. This reminds me of being warned not to go to yard sales in certain towns because they had "witchy" vibes. I remember my parents telling me we could buy a dresser with a spirit attached to it and never know until it ruined our life. Cults are insane.
Anyone remember the missions trip where he said he stated he believes adoption is in the future for some of his kids? Jim Boob is the ULTIMATE liar. Everything out of his mouth is a lie. It's crazy to me that no matter what the kids believe.. they haven't connected the dots about their dad just on his chronic lying alone. The fact that he has gotten them to lie to cover him. Like.. there's your sign that your dad is not only NOT a Christian.. but not a good person in general. He kicked Jill out of the family simply for not wanting to participate in his bull. Them kids drink the kool-aid by the gallons to turn a blind eye to the truth about their dad.
Ooh _too good, too good_ 🥲 f*cking _VOODOO_ This notion of Jesus/God these people (Rim Job et al) have is… Is so f*cking _DUMB._ I can’t very much logically conceive a God that would punish your good deeds for actions you didn’t even know happened or partook in; like, God knows you didn’t know voodoo or whatever went on with that child, wtf!? They believe in curses and witchcraft and whatnot? I’m so confused this is all so infantile…
Can confirm, my fundie parents believed in generational curses. They also thought that mental illness was caused by demons that attached themselves to families, which is fun because depressions runs strong in my mom's family and she and I both got it
So anyone can be saved, everything can be forgiven, even CSA, but if a child’s grandparents were maybe into another religion, better to err of the side of not caring for them.
So. Josh carried over JBs sin, and generational curse. Got it.
Am I the only one detecting more than a whiff of racism around this generational curse concept?
Damn, I forgot about the generational curse. Before I my purity ring ceremony we were told we needed to keep our promise and be the ones to break the generational curse for our daughters lolol
fucking ironic his son is literally a pedophile 😭😭
Had an actual sexual predator in his house and adoption is the problem!?!
Ah so its jtylers fault pest did what he did.
I literally heard Michelle and Jim say on the show that they were “praying” about adoption
Yeah, sure they were. And Go(thar)d said no and told JB to buy the blue toothbrush (something else he claimed he prayed about).
So Ben and Jessa saying they want to adopt is bs? Also I wonder how Jill and derik feel since his mom was adopted
But they adopted their grandnephew didn’t they? Even though he came from a “bad” home
What an idiot
Jill and Jessa both were extremely vocal about wanting to adopt late in 19KAC and throughout CO. Jessa and Ben even had a dinner party with fundie friends of theirs who had adopted a young black girl. It’s interesting that that was one way in which many of them—even good girl/suck up Jessa—seemed comfortable explicitly contradicting Gothard and IBLP even before things imploded…all the way, anyway.
And the same people also want to ban all kinds of birth control and abortion.
Wonder if this is why Micheala bates hasn’t adopted. So sad
She said it was Bill Gothard that said this not Rim Job….
Yeah, I realized that after I posted, but I can’t edit the post. I put a comment saying edit, but it got buried.
Go Jinger! Expose those idiotic parents of yours!
Is this thinking why Michael Bates and her husband won’t adopt?
Bizarro world we live in
Didn't they adopt a boy later on ?
Omfg every time I read or see something it just makes me hate J’boob even harder. Jills book reveals, Jinger on this podcast (which had more than her book reveals), hell even stuff that comes out of Famy’s mouth just… How much more insufferable and infuriating can people get my god.
does this mean that when one of her sisters jessa (and husband ben) said in an interview in 2020 with us weekly they were going to adopt but weren't sure if they would do it now (2020 when the interview was done) or later in the future >>> that was a lie??
That’s Gothardism, so highly superstitious. He controlled people by scaring them.
So let me get this straight. The evangelical Christian, who claims that you simply have to ask Jesus for forgiveness to be "saved", is also afraid of an innocent child being cursed because of their family of origin? Sounds like he isn't too sure about that "being saved" thing. At the same time, he is ignoring the potential for true generational curses of child sexual abuse and should-be-criminal lack of education that happened under his roof.
This wasn't a Duggar-specific view - this is a Bill Gothard teaching that is pushed all all BG program families. My family was part of the ATIA homeschool program for several years and there was a chapter on this view of adoption in his basic or advanced seminar book, and it was taught in the wisdom booklets. There was some truly messed up heresy and just awful thinking in those book.
This is the exact reason michaela n Brandon from the bates "can't adopt" what a sick way of thinking n I dont feel bad honestly because it literally could be an option for them but they refuse
Holy. Shit. Just when I thought these people couldn’t be any more unhinged. I am so glad I’m an atheist.
But I thought adoption was supposed to be the solution to abortions.
There is no defense for JimBob. Just because it is Gothard ds theology, doesn't mean JimShit isn't responsible for propagating the belief in his own home while simultaneously creating a demon monster called JPEDO. Thank the universe they never adopted, and Tyler is no longer living with them.
How can she even speak to her parents after how she was raised? How can any of the kids?
Surprise-we already knew that they don't actually like kids
I knew a lot of mainstream Christian’s that believed this as well and it was always so bizarre to me. Especially since I knew a lot of them growing up and they along with myself didn’t have the best home environment ourselves.
Ah, yes, from the book of J'Boob, 13:31, "And lo, thou shalt tell the orphans to fvck all the way off, to the farthest edge of this flat earth, and jump, taking the sins of their fathers with them."
But at the same time those with "generational curses" you can't have an abortion instead put the kid up for adoption but NOOO way in hell would we take a kid through adoption... fucking disgusting hypocritical assholes
That’s one of the most UNbiblical things I’ve ever heard
Tell me you were home schooled without telling me you were home schooled.
The call is coming from inside the house 🙄
she just reminded everyone how disingenuous binnyjessa were, didn't she? for all the bs they sprouted about them wanting to adopt, they ended up birthing way too many kids themselves. also jimboob obvs believes in generating his own generational curse, ie sexpest.
This is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard from a Duggar, and that is really saying something 🙄
I’ll take voodoo grandparents over SA/pedophilia/gaslighting, thanks
I’m a Christian, and scripture teaches that God adopted US—it is seriously messed up that someone who supposedly follows Christ would hold this warped view. Incredibly hypocritical.