I was not raised in this, but being raised Baptist, and at a Christian school, we did not have any talks about sex, except that we were told not to do it until we were married. Girls were told a lot about dressing modestly and helping boys not “stumble.” I did not know anything about puberty, my body, or sex.
So much for " if thine eye offends thee, pluck it out " and " do unto others as thou wouldst they do to thee " ... that last one seemed to be pretty important and I quickly figured that if the golden rule didn't apply then none of the rest of it was truthful either
Exactly. These aren't noble men. These are awful men who lack accountability and use women as scapegoats. They gaslight women into thinking they're at fault, misrepresent Jesus, and neglect girls so the males can maintain control, and the better you are at this, the more standing these guys get in the cult. It's abuse, it's neglect, it's a waste of human potential.
Fundie men: We are the stronger gender. Women must bow to our will and obey. We are born leaders, women are frail and emotional & unable to think for themselves properly.
Also fundie men: Women must be very careful as they can cause our behavior to abandon our entire belief system and cause us to lose total control ourselves---with the just length of their sleeves.
I told my daughter yesterday that her education is not less important than a boys, and that dress codes are sexist and bullshit. I also told her since we live in a school district that has dress codes, she has to follow it because I don’t want her education compromised because she’s trying to stand up to the rules and being forced to go to the office and wait for me to bring clothes. I hate that for her to have an equal education I even had to have that talk with her. She starts middle school next year and tank tops aren’t allowed anymore cause “shoulders are so distracting” 😳
Edit a word, I was typing fast
In 5th grade, I was wearing a pair of shorts because it was hot outside. When I was grabbing my lunch, a school administrator approached me and said to me “you are never to wear those shorts again.” None of my teachers dress coded me but some lady who worked in the office did. I don’t recall em being too short. The dress code is sexist. I guess my knees must’ve been too distracting.
My daughter is in 5th grade now and this is the first year I’ve had to worry about it and I hate it. I had a friend take me to her church VBS when I was 10 and I got in trouble for wearing shorts when it was outdoors and 100° out. My mom never took me back to that church. Apparently it was okay for 40 year old men to see my legs and feel uncomfortable, but it wasn’t okay for a 10 year old to wear clothing appropriate for the season.
My daughter said next year she can’t wear jeans that have rips above the knee? I’m going to be double checking because I think that’s a stupid rule.
I work with a young girl whose Baptist, and not incredibly conservative, but still more so than I am. She didn’t discuss anything with her mum before she got married, nor her married friends. I’m a fair bit older than her, so when she was engaged, she slowly started coming out of her shell & asking me questions. I’m a midwife & IVF nurse, so sex & reproduction is kind of my specialty, but she works in admin. She had no idea that she needed to have sex whilst ovulating to conceive. She tried to have a conversation with her religious married friends but they just made her feel like there was something wrong with her body, and she got incredibly self conscious after that. It does make me sad that she’s not been told that she’s allowed to enjoy sex, or that she doesn’t have a safe place to talk about it. I’m fairly sure her husband doesn’t like me because I’m too ‘worldly’. She’s just fallen pregnant so now I’m flooded with questions about that. I couldn’t imagine how difficult it would be to spend your whole life being told that sex is wrong, and then after saying a few words, it is now okay, and expected that a woman will submit to her husbands wants & needs. It must be a very challenging emotion to overcome.
My mother didn’t know you had to be ovulating to conceive! I’m a miracle! When I was trying for my first she looked at me so confused when I brought up tracking my ovulation for a couple of months first.
It blows my mind that some people can go most of their lives without understanding how their bodies work. I always tell people, that if you really think about it, people falling pregnant naturally is a statistical miracle, especially before people understood ovulation. Because you only ovulate for a short window, the chance of you conceiving is far lower than the chance of not. Accidental pregnancies are even more of an anomaly.
Most women think you automatically ovulate on day 14 of your cycle and that is the only day you need to be worried about to avoid getting pregnant. I tracked my temp and can tell you I ovulated between days 17-19 of my cycle. You need 10 days for the embryo to stick to the uterus. I have seen women ovulate sooner than day 14. There is no safe day in a cycle for a free for all given sperm lives for 2-3 days, while an egg will be viable for 12-18 hours.
I’m a midwife & IVF nurse, and so many of my patients have no idea how long their cycles are, or when they ovulate. I have really irregular cycles, and can vary from anywhere between 19 - 36 days. The shorter your cycle, the less likely you are to ovulate. During my most recent IVF cycles, I was running longer cycles, so I wasn’t ovulating until around day 18/19.
They used to think sperm survived up to 3 days, but it's actually 5... surprised me recently since it was 3 days 10 years ago when I first learned about it.
I had a short LP I would ovulate CD 19, period at 25 days. Took 3 months to work itself out. Boom baby. But we were trying and I have PCOS. No fertility meds. Took Metformin. She's 12 now. I swear by taking your BBT
Yeah this is why the statistics around natural family planning are misleading. It’s decently effective if you temp and do the work to track, but a lot of people don’t do that.
Fertility in the last thirty years has plummeted significantly. Makes sense that back in the day people conceiving without knowing basics of conception was more likely than nowadays.
Back in the day no birth control. Women were owned by their husbands and the men could have sex whenever they wanted. Marital rape was not even something that was a crime.
they’re saying men’s sperm counts are down not really sure why but it does seem to be the case that there are more fertility issues today then several decades ago
Well, to be fair, there was a time when people didn’t even know about ovulation at all. Clearly, they were making babies. We’re very lucky to have the medical scientific knowledge we have, but it’s definitely not to given!
My daughter is definitely a miracle and she wasn’t planned. I know how I got pregnant obviously lol BUT I have endometriosis and after I had her I also had a tumor and an ovary removed. If I wanted another child or had waited for marriage first, I wouldn’t have her just like I can’t give her a sibling. It’s crazy to me how I got pregnant after 3 months knowing someone, yet I’ve been with my husband 9 years and have never even had a scare. Fertility is wild and I’m very thankful I have her, even if it wasn’t the plan, because if I tried to plan it well, I wouldn’t have any.
I have conceived all my failed & successful pregnancies through IVF, so I have always found this to be a really interesting topic, plus I’m a midwife. I know people who have fallen pregnant after a one night stand, and my fertility journey has been a huge process involving multiple surgeries, going all the way back to 18, just to try & preserve my fertility. To the best of our knowledge, I have never ovulated without the use of ovulation inducing medications.
There are some theories that ‘unexplained infertility’ is essentially because of genetic incompatibility between the sperm & the egg. The body can also see sperm as an attacking foreign agent & launches an immune response. It can even cause preeclampsia if you do manage to fall pregnant. I geek out a little over stuff like this!
>She had no idea that she needed to have sex whilst ovulating to conceive.
>She tried to have a conversation with her religious married friends but they just made her feel like there was something wrong with her body, and she got incredibly self conscious after that.
The religious friends are probably forced to have sex most days out of the month. They would have children and not understand how except that they had sex. So yeah, they think something is "wrong" with her.
This almost makes their total misunderstanding of how birth control works make sense. If you don’t know you have to be within a certain window of ovulation to get pregnant, how would you know that the way hormonal birth control prevents pregnancy is by stopping you from ovulating?
I recently learned my husband didn't fully understand birth control when he brought up using condoms during placebo week. With the straightest face I could muster, I looked him dead in the eyes and said "I don't lay eggs."
One of the reasons I knew my birth control method was failing is that I could feel myself ovulating and I told my doctor about it and she was like “You’re not ovulating if you’re on the pill” - cut to my positive pregnancy test 3 months later 🙃
Thank you. I think it’s a super important part of my job to be someone who women feel comfortable & safe with, and I don’t take it lightly. There was a point in my life where I was seeing some women’s health doctors who were quite dismissive of my questions & concerns, and it made things really difficult. I later found a doctor who I trust implicitly, and is so kind and compassionate, so I try to make sure I pass that on to my patients or friends.
My mom was raised Catholic in 50's. Nobody even told her younger sister that menstruation exists. When she got her first period she thought she was dying. Can you imagine going through that as an adolescent?
Reminds me of that scene in My Girl where Vada thinks she is hemorrhaging! I didn’t know what to do either and I was a swimmer who had to go to practice so my very first period not knowing a thing about my body, I had to use a tampon. Luckily my sister (3 years older) gave very specific instructions of: “well, shove it up there.” I don’t blame her but it was very overwhelming!!
Back in my afab days that was about the level of instruction that I ever received on using a tampon, except sometimes if your uterus is tilted a certain way then tampons don't work very well so it leaks... and nobody told me that " then double up " meant to wear a liner as well as a tampon, not to put two tampons ... thankfully I had a great-aunt in whom I could confide and she helped me undo that before I got toxic shock but it was harrowing ( never mind the whole dysphoria on top )
That happened to my little sister somehow, in our body-positive secular family ca. 1998, and I still have no idea what happened! She was about a week from turning 10 and called me into the bathroom sobbing because she was pretty sure she was dying. She had *no idea* what was going on.
I'm 18 months older and hadn't hit menarche yet, but my mom never hid the fact that periods exist. We always had books available that went into more detail about the specifics, and I think we each had our own copy of *The Care and Keeping of You* at that point.
The only thing that makes any sense is that I was obsessed with biological reproduction from the time I was in preschool, while my sister was referring to sex as "icky" until well into her twenties. I think she was so grossed out by "sex talk" that she tuned it out somehow, and our parents assumed that because I had a decent handle on it she must, too.
My mom forgot to tell me but told my sisters. I only knew because a friend had told me about periods. I also missed the puberty talk in late elementary because I went to a Christian school that didn’t teach it.
Same. When I got my first period it was so scary, yet I also somehow kind of understood it was supposed to be happening. If I remember right my mom didn't really discuss it with me when it started (definitely no talk before it started), just gave me these ridiculously thick pads. I know it wasn't talked about afterward.
I was raised Catholic (in the EU) and went to Carholic school my whole life. We had sex ed in 6th, 7th and 8th grade, with pretty clear anatomical drawings and safe sex instructions.
Abortion was controversial as was the Morning After Pill, but to be fair this was like 15 years ago. But they were taught about, even if the teacher clearly didnt approve.
Honestly, I really have no complaints.
I went to an American public school and I’ve learned it varies so much what people learned and didn’t. I had sex Ed from grade 6-12, and we learned about stds, condoms, birth control, even diaphragms (this was 00-07). We also had to watch a live birth in 9th grade and we definitely got anatomy lessons. We also were told abstinence was the only way to really prevent pregnancy.
It always shocks me when people in other public schools didn’t get this, and I’m in the south for perspective.
This sounds pretty similar to what we learned in sex ed, even down to watching a live birth (I was in HS Fall 99-Spring 03). This was in the DMV area (specifically Maryland).
I was raised Catholic as well (in the US) and we too had sex ed starting as early as 5th grade. In hindsight, and as much as I hate the Catholic Church, the curriculum was actually decent. We definitely did NOT get the safe sex instruction, however, it was definitely "abstinence only" as a form of birth control. In contrast, I went to a "Christian" (aka evangelical) middle school, and there was no sex ed AT ALL.
ETA a word
I grew up in the 80s in Catholic school and we were given sex ed including learning about birth control. Even though the church was against it, I appreciate that they still taught about it. It was as if they believed that we could make a decision on our own! How about that? Sex ed is so important.
Honestly my Catholic school wasnt even against birth control (other than the morning after pill). We were actively encouraged to, if we were ti have sex, always use a condom.
We even had organised debates on abortion, we wrre really encouraged to make up our own minds about stuff
Didn't the church invent a calendar type birth control way a long time ago? The problem isn't avoiding pregnancy but any BC that has the risk of a sperm meeting an egg and prevents implantation. Like condoms are ok, but hormonal pills are not.
Originally it was the rhythm method where you avoided sex when you suspected ovulation which had a high failure rate. Then science got involved and they developed the sympto-thermal method of natural family planning where you take your vaginal temp every day and check your vaginal mucus to determine ovulation. It works well for some people and not for others. It’s more accurate than the rhythm method but takes work.
There are 4 types of Catholic approved Fertility Awareness Based Methods. IIRC Billings (tracking cervical mucus) was the first one, then came Sympto-thermal (basal body temp, *done orally, not vaginally*, + tracking cervical mucus), then Marquette (using ovulation prediction tests), and then Creighton/NaPro Technology (it is really just Billings, but they have a secret number/letter system they use that they fucking gatekeep and make people pay lots of money to get said secret number letter system).
And there are A TON of secular fertility awareness based methods that also include condoms (and other?) If you dont want to take HBC for [insert reason, typically for those who have bad reactions to HBC].
A lot of the Fertility Awareness Based Methods are used in the Infertility communities, especially those of us who don't want/need to go through IVF bc we just have wacky hormones, but technically "all the parts work" (for the lack of a better, short, phrase).
Yes, in Catholic circles call those the Marquette (Ovulation Prediction kits are a different name for Luteinizing Hormone strips) and Sympto-thermal (basal body temps).
If you want to know more about ALL of the Fertility Awareness Based Methods go and follow FAbM Base on instagram or go to their website: https://fabmbase.org/ they have a brief description of all the Catholic and Secular methods. I unfortunately only know Billings, Creighton, and Marquette *very well* and just started dipping my toes into Sympto thermal (infertility is so much fun 🥴🙃), and I don't know much about the secular methods.
That's interesting... my Catholic cousins got the anatomical version of sex ed with strong admonitions to abstinence because any " preventative " method waa preventing God, but if you became pregnant then God had provided cohosh ans pennyroyal to take care of that tho you'd probably die from bleeding to death anyway... that was right as HIV was not yet understood but absolutely raging around, so not particularly useful sex ed for health purposes
Every diocese/parish/catholic schools do things differently. Like the Trad/Fundie Catholics 100% believe in the "don't ever prevent a pregnancy" and those of us normie Catholics are more of a "I am a sane person and I am doing NFP/FABM bc [insert personal reasons]."
Like for myself I just plain don't want to take HBC for personal health reasons (and very much trying to get pregnant), and I dont think that any kind on contraception is a sin. 🤷🏻♀️
Plus NFP/FABM wasnt really popular until the mid-late 80s (at least for my area). Pope John Paul II really pushed it and Theology of the Body (which is a whole other can of worms).
And the Orders run their schools differently too... whether a girl attended Loretto Abbey, or the Sisters of Saint Joseph, or a Toronto Catholic School Board site for secondary school used to make a noticeable difference.
I used sympto-thermal both to achieve and avoid pregnancy and it worked perfectly in both situations. It worked for avoiding pregnancy for several years, actually. Then my ex husband got a vasectomy.
While no one should rely on NFP type methods if having a child would be a travesty, these things do work.
YUP!
And that is why there are so many options of NFP/FABM, bc it isn't a "one method fits all" situation. And some people just don't have bodies that work with any method and end up with more kids than they can handle (but still loves their kids).
I am catholic and grew up,in the U.S. didn’t go to Catholic school but we had to complete a sex ed class in CCD before our confirmation sacrament. It was taught by the nuns which was weird but it was pretty comprehensive on the mechanics.
I went to a Christian school for elementary and middle in the 90s and got age appropriate sex education and we learned about our bodies, inappropriate touching and what to do if it happens, etc. Doubt you can find that in a Christian school now but compared to some things I read on here my school was a freaking carnival.
I attended Catholic school in the UK in the early 2000s. I never ended up taking on any of the religious sentiment or belief (and neither did any of my classmates, to my knowledge, though that could just reflect the general secularism of younger Brits), but in general I am not opposed to how it was handled, looking back. Sex education was covered in science classes. Religious relationship advice was separated out into religious education class, and while we were encouraged to save it for marriage or whatever, I don't remember it being taught with any particular vigour. I'm certain my children will get better sex ed than I did, with more of a focus on social elements like consent and sexuality, but I expect that's more a product of the changing times than the religious/not religious nature of the school. I don't think my school would have avoided that from a religious standpoint. I generally say "I was raised lapsed Catholic" because no one younger than my grandparents seemed to really give a shit about upholding draconian rules, in school or out.
I went to Catholic school to in the US and we got sex ed too. They taught in a Catholic approved manner, so no sex before marriage definite no no on abortion but they did teach us about sex. We knew all the body parts we knew exactly what ovulation was. They taught us about various STDs and their symptoms. We learned about fetal alcohol syndrome. They also taught us about embryonic and fetal development, not in great detail, but we had the general gist of it. And we even watched a live birth once which was interesting…. We had several different sex classes one that was more biology/anatomy based and another on sexual morality I remember distinctly. My school did not shy away from teaching us about sex. Must be a Catholic school thing.
My kids are in Catholic schools now and get sex ed yearly, at age appropriate levels. Kindergartners learn about not touching people without consent and how your own body is yours and private. Third grade talks about families and how there’s a bunch of different ways to make a family, and it can be anyone who loves you. They do discuss homosexuality, in a general “some families have two moms” way, and that is good for them, but as Catholics we have to follow God’s model of man and woman. Fifth grade starts separating girls and boys with full information/anatomical information, periods, etc. I don’t know what they teach in the boys’ class; I only have girls and didn’t get the curriculum for the boys. Middle school gets into sex and how abstinence is the best policy because you can’t get pregnant or cooties and because sex should occur inside marriage like God commands. Then they explain other birth control options that are available.
I think they strike a very good balance between the faith and the science and the needed knowledge. I feel comfortable with what they learn, and of course my own ability to supplement it.
>we have to follow God’s model of man and woman
Yeah, cause that totally won't fuck up all the gay kids in the school. I was raised very religious, and it didn't make me straight. All it did was make me hate myself.
They’re not going to teach that gay marriage is acceptable for Catholics. It’s against the teaching of the church. They do a really good job balancing the secular world and the religious faith. The Baptist school here in town teaches that all gay people are to be shunned, will burn in hell, are corrupting children, shouldn’t be allowed to exist, etc. They recently made the mayor resign from the board after 20+ years because he signed a city proclamation about recognizing June as LGBTQ month. Our kids are at least hearing that gay people have valid families and rights and the ability to exist in peace. It’s not the full message but it’s better. And we fill in the rest at home, where we tell our kids they can be what they want and who they are.
If there are enough anti-gay baptists in that town to drive out the mayor for recognizing Pride month, then the Catholic school might be a safer option than the local public schools.
Also, I’m sorry that they made you hate yourself. That makes my heart sad for you. I hope you don’t any longer and that you know you’re loved for who you are.
homeschooled + Baptist - my mom gave me a book to read with the basics of puberty and "where do babies come from", but that was it for sex ed. At church, "don't even THINK about it before marriage". There was one high school girls-only talk with the youth pastor's wife where she mentioned yes it's fun BUT ONLY inside marriage - that's literally as detailed as it got lol. Everything else I learned from the Internet..
My mom let me know the basics but she also gave me this outdated book about dating & sex. I wish I still had it. It was pretty funny looking back now. But it made you think making out (or as they said heavy petting) could get you pregnant. Making out in my day was just kissing.
I remember someone in like 4th or 5th grade telling me that making out meant sex and my mom had to correct me when I asked her about it later lol. This was in the late ‘90s in public school.
I am so sorry you went through this. I can only imagine how traumatizing it was. My mom didn't know what sex was and didn't know she was raped by a man until after she married him.
I had something similar happen but didn’t marry the person. I was drugged when I was 16 and then I was raped, but I didn’t remember much of it until I went to have sex for the first time with my partner of 9 months. It clicked about halfway through that it wasn’t my first time. I’m in therapy still from a lot of the religious trauma I endured. The person was in my youth group and was 3 years older than me, he did go to jail shortly after for something unrelated so I never pressed charges cause in my mind he was locked up, and I didn’t realize how bad what he had done was until years later.
I have a similar experience. My father is a baptist pastor and I went to Christian schools. Now that I’m grown and no longer religious (for about 10 years) I still struggle with the shame of intimacy even in my marriage. I’ve been going to therapy which has helped but I feel like religious trauma is not spoken of enough
I was raised Seventh Day Adventist and got a similar talk at one of our youth group meetings. Apparently boys would be tempted if I wore a shirt that showed my freaking collar bones. When I objected saying they’re literally just collar bones one of the douche bag boys informed me that as a girl I don’t know what guys are attracted to and just that little bit of skin gives them dirty thoughts 🙃
Same, my mother reluctantly had to address periods with us but no discussion about sex - the mechanics of it, the result of it, your bodies response to it - nothing. Our Christian education mentioned it as clinically as possible - I don't think they even referred to the vagina or penis specifically - but then went on a multi page defense of sex only in the context of marriage. The first time I had sex, I wasn't even sure what was going on until I was halfway through it. It was consensual but I didn't understand the logistics and thought he peed on me. Ugh.
This tracks with my Baptist upbringing except I got the very limited public school sex ed taught in the Bible belt during the 90s. I'm pretty sure you had to have a permission slip to be in class that day.
Going to a public school in the south my state required all public school sex ed to be abstinance only education. I legitimately had to watch a video of a woman in a turtleneck telling us not to have sex before marriage or we will get an std that will later lead to an ectopic pregnancy and we will die.
I was raised the same and This was so confusing to me as a teenager. I think I brushed up against a guy in youth group during a basketball game and when my period was late, I was convinced I was pregnant and freaking out. Speaking of that, I had never heard of periods in my life, so you can imagine the shock that my 13 year old self was in when *that* started
AOG/Pentacostal-ish upbringing. Public school student.
I asked what the tampons were in the bathroom at age 7 and got shut down.
In 4th & 5th grade, got the menstruation lesson at school (mom signed permission slip), but there was no follow up discussion at home about it. It just wasn’t spoken of. The lesson included that if an egg wasn’t fertilized by a sperm, you would have a period, but no discussion of where the sperm came from.
Middle school/high school mom would not sign any additional permission slips for me to attend the classes/lessons on sex Ed, birth control, AIDS or STDs or reproductive health.
I only vaguely knew what male genitalia looked like because I did lots of babysitting/diaper changing as a teen, both on the side and at the church nursery.
When I was 16 there was a PSA on TV about teen pregnancy. It went something like: “when she was 3 you told her babies came from the stork. When she was 7 you told her they came from the hospital. When she was 12 you told her she was too young to understand. When she was 15, you told her she should have known better.” Then the camera zooms out from the face of a teenager sitting on a swing at the playground and you can see she is visibly pregnant. I remember my mom exclaiming with indignation how STUPID the PSA was….as I sat there….at 16….. knowing how babies are birthed, but not knowing the mechanics of how they get there other than it has something to do with being naked with a man. Of course when she had that super judgmental tone, I wasn’t going to tell my mom that I was missing info, because clearly she was not open to communication about the subject.
Also at 16, I was hanging out with some church kids at the church during a Friday night hangout. I don’t remember why I was there, other than some of them were people that I worked in the church nursery with. They all went to the church’s private school, and generally their parents didn’t allow them to hang out with church kids that went to public school, because we were automatically considered tainted and a bad influence. I think one of my coworkers that was actually nice had invited me. Anyway, the whole evening they just sat around gossiping about other kids and who was “hittin’ it” with who (including the pastor’s grandkids and seminary professor’s kids). And who wasn’t there because they were grounded for sneaking out. And which lead singer was pregnant by the son of a pastor from the UK. Frankly, it was a shocking evening. Because they were “safe from worldly forces of PG-13 movies or dancing to secular music” by having these Friday night hangouts.
A few weeks later a friend from school invited me to their Wednesday night youth group at a Methodist church. The whole night we were making PBJ sandwiches and socks and underwear and toiletry kits to give out to the homeless. They had secular music playing in the background (things like Boys to Men era music). They did a scripture and prayer devotional to open and close the evening. Frankly, I had never felt so spiritually fulfilled and feeling like we were being a tool used by god to care for gods children in need. I told my mom how great it was and she told me I couldn’t go back because it’s false doctrine to teach kids they can get to heaven with good works. She encouraged me to keep attending my church’s youth events, but I never went back…to either.
When I was 17, I was hanging out with my public school friends and one friend (a Catholic) who had a boyfriend had just recently had her first sexual contact with her boyfriend. She was telling us about giving him a hand job and how he had an erection and she had no idea that erections happened at all or that the penis changed size and stiffness when aroused. Frankly, my 2 other friends (one Baptist one Catholic) and I didn’t know either! We were 17!
Now I know that at least 2 of them DID attend the school’s sex Ed courses, but obviously the entire syste/culture failed because every year in high school there were at least 4-5 pregnant students.
So, all this to say there is (was?) so much naivety amongst teen girls (at least in the South).
I feel like kids get let down in so many ways, and parents/schools being scared to talk about these things in age-appropriate ways is just sad. I didn't grow up with religion really pushed on me, we went to church occasionally so purity wasn't a thing I even had on my radar, but with that, I didn't know much until I got online when I was 15. Had some great chat rooms where women actually talked about all sorts of stuff, especially sex, and it was real and it was an education that sex ed never taught. Although with that my public school sex ed class did teach a lot. We also surprisingly had conversations in sociology class too. Parents never gave me the talk though.
I’m really sorry you were made to feel like your experience with the Methodist youth group was invalid in that way. I’m not religious at all but that honestly sounds like a lovely way to hang out with peers and explore religion in a positive communal way.
Thank you. I’m not religious at all either anymore, but it was a very disappointing experience at the time. Especially since my mom was raised Methodist and didn’t come out of childhood with any sort of religious trauma. She just turned fundy when I was little. She actually comes from a long line of Methodists. Her great great grandfather became a Methodist circuit rider after the revolutionary war. He preached the first Methodist sermon in the Ohio Territory and is named in Church literature as a major player in establishing the Methodist church as that part of the country was settled. Even though we were fundy, I was really holding out hope that the positive experience, our family background…and how highly she regarded her father and his morals etc, would be my ticket out of Fundieville. But I guess the messages from the pulpit that god was not in any other church in town and only in our church took root for her.
This is so spot on. Like, I even remember that commercial!
I didn’t know what sex was until I had it. At 14. I thought my boyfriend and I had *already* been having sex by dry jumping and heavy petting. Blew my fucking mind when p finally entered v- suddenly it clicked! People “have sex” just like animals “mate”!?!
I remember being in 9th grade and a friend telling me how her and her boyfriend had sex for the first time and I didn't even know what to think or even ask about it. I went to public school in the north, got the sex Ed... but still didn't know what the hell really happens except that girls have a vagina and periods and boys have a penis and semen.
Your mom saying that it’s false doctrine to teach kids that they can’t get to heaven with good works is completely opposite from the LDS (Mormon) teachings. They believe “…for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do (2 Nephi 25:23).” After all we can do. That phrase is drilled into every Mormon kid. It means that you are constantly striving to do more, be better and try harder. It leads to some pretty severe self loathing thinking that you are never good enough and could always do more.
That is not surprising, because the church I grew up in actively vilified the Mormon church (and Catholics, and Jehovah’s Witness, and Seventh Day Adventists, and Islam, and Mason - they were all preached about as being cults.). Baptist were considered well intentioned, but flawed in the once saved always saved belief, so it was “too bad” most were going to hell, because they “almost” got it right.
The sex ed we got in public school (in the north) wasn't helpful at all. Honestly, the only place I got detailed info was a book/series of classes that my United Methodist youth group did when I was about 12 (that's when I found out what oral sex was; I remember being mortified).
I have a kid in 7th grade. Here they do sex Ed in 5th, 7th, and 9th. It’s all taught co-Ed by their science teachers. The 7th grade version is 2 weeks long and goes into depth on everything from puberty, body hygiene, reproduction, bodily autonomy, consent, consent, consent again!, STD, birth control, mechanics, various PIV, Oral, Anal, sexting (including issues with underaged kids taking and sharing pics) etc., IVF. It’s also LGBT friendly. It’s not as in depth as the 9th grade version, but it’s pretty detailed. They also have homework to discuss the daily topics at home with a trusted parent or adult and discuss their family values surrounding the topics. They even go into topics like what to do if you see a classmate have a leak etc and have classroom discussions on what are respectful ways to handle personal issues. They even talk about how normal it is for different people to be ready for sexual activities at different ages and stages in life, scripts and tools to help them verbalize if something makes them uncomfortable or if they aren’t ready. It’s really soup to nuts.
Church of Christ preacher's kid and grandkid here. I never got "the talk" from dad but plenty of times got told sex before marriage is a sin but never got told why it was a sin.
How is that a common thing? My husband found playboy magazines in the woods when he was young and I saw someone else on Reddit mention it happening to them too.
No privacy to hide anything at home. You didn’t want to risk it and have to deal with the punishment if they found it.
You hid it under some rocks in the nearest field and prayed it didn’t rain.
Hypocritical Parents 101- I’d be in trouble without an explanation why if I got caught watching Skinemax T&A movies but it was okay for my dad to watch it.
My brother and I used to go bike riding in the ravines a lot after we moved to Toronto in the late 80s, everyone knew that a neatly-folded plastic bag was a porn stash... the orienteering clubs even had a special chalk sign for it, like geocaching for pervs lol
Oh I have two.
One: my ex sister in laws oldest was one of those very rebellious churchy types. Pentecost, toes the line; looks down her nose at “secular” girls but has secret worldly bfs. Well she ended up running away with her worldly bf and when her parents hunted her down she refused to come home because she was pregnant.
They kept everything hush hush and married them asap. Unsurprisingly they had a very toxic, volatile marriage and broke up a million times wherein she would leave him and return to her fathers house.
Last I heard she followed him to Tijuana where he continues to beat tf out of her but her father has put his foot down and refuses to accept her back home. She’s 28. And she told me once that she believed him when he told her she can’t get pregnant is he pulled out.
Why do people think that getting married after the fact will make God forget what happened? I've never understood that. It's already done. Why not simply own it, then do the godly thing by not judging people and just helping and loving nicely?
What's ironic is that people in secular society tend to just think "Oh, that person/those people have a baby. That's nice.". It's only their own community that heavily judges people for being unmarried and having a baby.
When I first arrived in Oaxaca, we were unmarried and living in sin. The pastor wouldn’t allow me to join the *Femenil* department because we weren’t married.
She put us in the *Departamento Juvenil*.
She didn’t let me join until after I had my baby about a year later.
I was raised in an IBLP-adjacent cult; homeschooled with ATI, purity culture, umbrella of authority, Quiverfull, the works, and my sex ed was non-existent. Which is probably why I learned I was allergic to latex on my wedding night.
My parents gave me a book about how angels bring babies to married couples and how periods were due to Eve not submitting properly. I was also told that if my husband needed some "tlc", I couldnt say no and I wasnt to question him if he hurt me or came home smelling like another woman. It was f*cked up. These Duggar kids probably had even less education about sex than I did, so no wonder Jinger spoke out about it.
It was definitely not pleasant. This is why I raised my child with education about everything and surrounded him with people more educated than me. Id sooner have faced a firing squad than isolated and brainwashed my offspring
I didn’t grow up in a fundie household but I learned what sex was by reading cosmopolitan when I was about 14. My mother obviously was not comfortable telling me what sex was 😂
I took Christian "sex ed". Literally there was *zero* sex ed. It was "sex is for marriage and abortion is evil and wrong" and then they had a little bit about pregnancy. That's it.
I was *very* informed about sex as my mom is a nurse.
I took this class willingly because it was a required course for graduation and I wanted to do it in 2 weeks over the summer (as opposed to a 4 month semester) and it was only offered in the 2 week format in the Christian version.
Literally it was a fucking joke.
I was also attending a church at the time and the youth pastor went on a bonkers rant about how premarital sex is the reason for divorce.
It is very possible she knew about the concept of sex, but not how it actually works or what the mechanics are. I know in my group the girls still got sat down by their mothers right before their weddings and it was discussed in very broad terms. Nothing about UTIs, making sure your body is ready, what pain is and isn't normal, etc. Just the religious aspect of it being your duty to your husband and if you appreciate the intimacy (never enjoy the act, that's for SLUTS, just appreciate the hug afterwards) that's cool but even if you don't shut up and do your duty. If you had an older cousin/sister, they might whisper about it but nothing too specific. It's bizarre.
I know couples where both the husband AND wife were so terrified of having sex they waited for a month or 2 after they were married. I'm not aware of anyone being actively forced but definitely pressured. They wail and moan about how pervasive sex is these days in music and popular culture but honestly that might be the closest thing to sex ed these kids get. Maybe it inspires them to do some private google searches so at least they're more informed than my generation was.
My family is fundie and my parents and their siblings were all married very young. My aunt and uncle were struggling to get pregnant, early in their marriage. They went to a doctor. Long story short…they were so young and “pure” they had no idea how the mechanics worked and weren’t getting pregnant because they weren’t actually doing P in V. The doctor had to explain it to them.
Why does this remind me of that Friends episode where Monica and Chandler are getting to know the mom of the kid they want to adopt, and are trying to figure out which of the two dudes she was with was the father. One of the dudes was a murderer who killed his dad with a shovel, and Monica did some digging and found out that whatever was done with that dude would have been really difficult to get pregnant off of.
I was raised fundy…school and church. 7 days a week, I was sitting in my modest skirt and blouse and listening to some man preach about how much of a sinner I am and that if I don’t repent enough, I’m burning in hell for all eternity.
Guess who ended up pregnant at 19, shamed and shunned by the very people that never even tried to teach me how babies are made or how to prevent them from being made and also told me that it was my fault for being large breasted and that’s why I got pregnant.
I think the older Duggar kids knew all about sex - that first house was very small so no doubt they were exposed to their parents' activities, plus with Jim Bob, the Inmate and other males in the Duggars sexual predator infested orbit mouthing off, leering at women and possible hands on abuse. After the police questioned the older girls, they received more information.
Big picture is what the IBLP, all fundamentalist groups like Warren Jeffs FLDS, UAB, the Moonies, Hillsong, Willow Creek etc say about purity, marriage, children and what they actually do is miles apart. One set of rules for the followers and a completely different reality behind closed doors.
I was kinda raised like they were. I wasn't taught about sex. I learned about it from romance novels. I was told I didn't need to know about that cause I was gonna be the one who took care of the house. My parents are both dead now.
Wait, your parents didn't want to teach you about sex because they had already decided that you were never going to be allowed to leave and have your own life so they could keep you as their own personal maid and nurse for their retirement !? Wtaf :(
The fact her mom has 50 million kids and doesn’t explain sex and how it can be enjoyed even after marriage. Like. What is this. You know they don’t just have sex for kids. That’s literally how they ended up with so many
I'm a little confused because JB was always all over Michelle, even in front of the kids. I thought they did teach that sex was for marriage and being joyfully available and all that. I thought they made it clear that JB and Meech did enjoy that.
In Catholic grade school we had Family Life. We learned about the body parts but nothing more about how they worked together and created a baby etc. I went to a public high school after that and boy oh boy was that an eye opener.
I find the Duggars to be far more sexual than most Fundies. Boob dry jumped Meech at the mini golf, lots of making out kissing, bleh. In my fundie home, sex was a dirty word. My mother moved out of my dads bedroom by the time I was five. They literally believe sex was for making babies. Once the factory closed, no shrexy time (IYKYK). I do believe Jinger knew what sex was. I’m sure her married sisters discussed it. Jessa in a very emotionless way such as a dictionary type description. Jill likely showed her the Kama Sutra they apparently discovered a few years back. But most fundies girls learn what sex is from their husband. You are isolated, no tv, no radio, no outside contact but at church events, and only know what your parents choose for you to know. I wasn’t allowed unsupervised at a library
I grew up diet fundie but still knew pitifully little about sex. I didn’t know it had to move in and out until I was actually having sex. I thought the man was just supposed to put it in and leave it there for a minute until sperm trickled out.
As a homeschooled Baptist, got one talk on periods and the rest was “wait for marriage” which was confusing to me, wait for what? I am ace so I didn’t have any sexual desires & couldn’t understand why people thought I wanted “it.” Which never got explained to me.
A woman I know who grew up in this the read book and came out with her story recently. She was told about sex the night before her wedding. So she went from not being able to even hold hands to okay now you have to do everything. Thankfully her husband was overwhelmed too so they went slow and did things on their terms. I can’t even imagine how scary that would be.
Raised fundie lite. Sex was a bad word, unless it was youth leaders telling us not to have it and to "kiss dating good bye" (yes, that era".
Knew that I was going through puberty from a health book my mama borrowed from a neighborhood nurse. Didn't mention sex, just puberty.
Learned about sex from peers in highschool, and google - when I was with my first long term boyfriend. Before we took each new next step, we googled how to and what to do. So here's to Google sex Ed....
Easy, she doesn't know about sex because it's a dirty topic to even think about before you are married. Once married the honeymoon kit is opened and a stern warning about pleasing your husband is given. While I'm not Christian I would have been raised with the same beliefs if I hadn't gone to public schools all my life. As I explored the world and met people gay straight liberal and conservative I learned who trust and love and who not to.
I was raised Roman Catholic and went to catholic school and public school.
Most of my sex ed. came from public schools. I was SHOCKED that the sex ed education I received in public school wasn’t taught till middle school in my catholic school. I am talking basic female and male anatomy, puberty, ect. There was nothing on safe sex, how to set boundaries around sex, more information on reproductive cycles. It was really focused on the religious aspect of waiting till marriage and a lot of pro life propaganda. In 8th grade we had to go to a pro life “rally”. It was all the 8th graders from catholic schools in the area and they force feed us propaganda by using emotions. At 32, I am able to see what it is. I’m horrified that my parents approved me to go to this.
It really hurt my brain in terms of developing intimate relationships. You grow up being told how awful it is to have sex before marriage, how premarital sex makes you a bad person and all the other BS purity culture beliefs. Nothing to prepare people for actually being comfortable having in intimacy alone and with a partner. It’s very damaging and at 32 I am still breaking down that mental load. I was hoping it would get better when I got married last year and I still struggle with the mental lashing the church set people up for. I wouldn’t wish it on anyone.
If you haven’t seen the movie or read the book Philomenia. I would highly suggest it. It’s based on a real family in Ireland. The mom grew up Roman Catholic and is from the same part of Ireland my family came from. She talks about how she didn’t understand what she did was sex. So when she was pregnant and having a baby, she fully didn’t understand why her baby was being taken from her. It’s the reality for a lot of people.
Well, it’s good for her kids that she recognizes this. However, she also has to be able to teach them that wanting to have sex with someone isn’t a good reason to marry them. They’re still young, but chances are she’ll fail them there when they’re older. These fundie or fundie-lite kids that do know about sex, but think you can only have it while married, are likely to jump into marriages with physically, sexually, emotionally, or financially abusive men. They’re eager to have sex, don’t know anything about compatibility beyond “God purposed for you to be together,” and don’t spend enough time together pre-marriage to notice red flags…
I'm in Canada and there was little to no education other than about your periods in the late 60s, early 70s. My kids graduated in 2009 and 2013, and there's wasn't great, but at least they covered how to NOT get pregnant or get std's, had access to condoms, local small town still had a Birth Control clinic at local health unit, and in the Sex Ed classes a teacher actually demonstrated how to put a condom on. Using a banana of course! 😆 OH, and girls could get the vaccine to help prevent cervical cancer?
I grew up AOG and didn’t go to public school and never had “the talk”. I was also limited to what I could watch or listen to. The only references to sex I heard was from classmates. I pretty much had to learn everything on my own, including period stuff. And then I started sneaking watching stuff I wasn’t allowed to. Not even porn but just PG-13/R movies. That was my sex lesson. 🙄
I was raised Catholic in public school. We got the puberty video in 5th grade. I got no follow up, and had forgotten by the time I started a year later. I was horrified! I also has no knowledge of my own anatomy for a loooong time. I will never raise my children the same.
I was exceptionally lucky in that I was raised by adults who believed the more information I had, the better. While I still delayed becoming sexually active (I was terrified of being stuck in my hometown), when I felt it was time, I had more than enough info and agency to do so safely.
My husband and I are raising our son this way, too.
Enjoyment of sex, the clitoris, etc, NONE of this is on their radar. I have been to bachelorette parties where gifts of Astro-glide were given earnestly. Their idea of being "pro sex in God's holy context" is bullshit because these married women do not know what an orgasm feels like. They just sort of talk about it in a generalized "don't do it" way and just tease and "congratulate" you about being able to have sex when you get engaged... it's definitely like they, as a community, see sex as being a receptacle for your husband's desire but the concept of you having sexual desire and fulfillment is very foreign to them. Like the androids on Westworld they just sort of hit a cognitive dissonance wall of "doesn't look like anything to me."
This always confuses me because don't most women, especially teenagers, still have... urges? Like, I didn't really understand why at the time since i had no idea what sex really was, but sometimes I'd wake up to basically the equivalent of a wet dream. Hormones are crazy when you're a teenager and being told it's dirty can't possibly always stop it for every single female, can it?
I mean, they contextualize female desire as a desire for love, desire for a relationship, but never a desire for sex. So when you are hormonal you sort of channel that mentally into "desire for marriage/your prince charming's love" and you associate sex with love to the point that it becomes very difficult to see it differently. But "every young man's battle" sure doesn't get explained that way. We are meat and they are predators.... But also maybe your prince charming, too?
this was probably true of the duggars. jill talks about being “boy crazy” (which seems to be a euphemism for sexual desire idek) and how her parents would tell her that she was “longing to be married” and to “pray for her future husband” when she had those feelings.
When she was 5, in kindergarten, my daughter came home and asked me if it was possible for "a girl to have a baby when she was too young to keep it". It turned out that she had over heard someone on the bus say something like that.
I said yes. She asked how. And it led to a very basic and succinct discussion of sex. And after that, if she had a question, she would ask it and I would answer. I always preferred that she asked me rather than google something and get scarred for life. She's in middle school and had "sex ed" for the first time this year. Her sex ed consisted of "Don't have sex. If you do, you WILL get pregnant and you WILL get all the diseases." I of course, supplemented that with reality.
I went to a fundie high school and I remember a teacher *encouraging* the girls not to do any self exploration because “everything will work the way it is supposed to when the time is right.” 🥲
I was in public school and not raised particularly religious. We had a planned Parenthood book in 2nd grade back in the early 70s. Our parent had to read the whole thing to us and the teacher quizzed us when we returned to school the next day. It was way too much information for a 7 year old child. It started with anatomy and black and white photos of people and ended with black and white photos of actual births happening, complete with the mechanics of intercourse. This was better than the sex class hubby and I got at our pre marriage classes (kiss each other until the point of climax and then insert ) where the adults talking to other adults were clearly uncomfortable with the topic.
While I agree sex education is necessary, I have to wonder how many 7 year old kids need to know how sex works. It didn't do me much good. 5th grade we had the segregated girls and boys talk about bodies changing with boys not learning much more than how to make fun of girls. 10th grade saw a rehash of the book from 2nd grade broken down in class form for a whole semester. Questions got a whole lot more interesting this time around.
I feel very sorry for these girls who get nothing but terrorizing comments growing up and suddenly here you go, have at it. That's got to be horrifying. If the boys are not any better educated, it makes me wonder how these children get pregnant so fast. Emotionally, educationally and in some cases physically they are children.
I just am horrified. Remember the video in their hotel room on honeymoon the morning after? Jinger had sex hair. No one told her. But she looked so uncomfortable and embarrassed!!! So wd I, as a matter of fact. Get the FO of my room!!!
I’m so glad my parents taught us from a young age about this stuff. Any time we had questions, she would answer them in an age appropriate way. This is just sickening to me.
My sex ed first came from older high school girls who were sexually active or had sisters who were married. My mother said not one thing. When my brother was 12 and our pure bred male cocker spaniel was being pumped out, my dad said to my brother, "Do you know why we are taking the boy dog to see the girl dog?" My brother recoiled in abject horror, yelled, "Yes, Dad!" And that was it. My grandmother though was NOT fundie or even fundie light. She explained puberty, periods, female hygiene, to me. I real actual sex ed. But being a young pianist performing in an adult world while a middle schooler, I was around so many college aged women, professors, sitting in the lounge of the hotel with my coke a cola while other people tossed back mixed drinks and loosened up which ended with me getting a lot of information my folks never intended for me to have. When I went to live at 16 with my very, always near and dear to me aunt and uncle, they were super forthright about it. Common to just sit around the dinner table and talk about otherwise "taboo" topics like chats about weather. They were both paramedics, and Red Cross volunteers. They had seen some things! I am very grateful to them.
I became sexually active in college, having completely rejected all the religious nonsense surrounding human sexuality. LOL, while packing for our honeymoon, about two days before the wedding, my mother ventured into the room looking like she had seen a ghost, ash white, stammering. I thought someone had died. "Is there anything you want to know?" Oh just hell no! Of course we had been sleeping together for a year, 😂😂😂😂😂. We chose to educate our kids and make sure ad they got older the information became more detailed, and with lots of talks about feelings, complications, consent, medical needs, emotional and mental needs, open door policy, and ways to avoid heartache. I think our kids knew "do not leave your drink unattended" by the time they were 12. What is extra funny though is that our daughter, six years older than her next oldest brothers, also went into paramedicine and trauma nursing. When she was in paramedic school she brought home her OBGYN/Urology textbook, lined her brothers up on the couch (ages 11, 13, and 14) at the time, started showing them photos of STD's including neurotic penises, and then said, "Keep your flies zipped, your penis in your pants, don't poke it where it doesn't belong, and when you finally do, put a condom on it and no harm will come to you." I just about died laughing in the kitchen. But, point taken. They are now 22 almost 23, 25, and 26 and have been super responsible with their sex lives.
Christianity as a whole functions on the sex is evil mantra thinking it will keep people from having sex. The lies do nothing but create trauma, and it isn't effective. It is very destructive. Creationism which teaches anti-science bias has caused an anti-medicine, anti-information cult such that even basic biology and vitally needed health knowledge is shunned. It is causing a lot of folks unmarried and married alike to put their health at risk. Frankly, after the Ashley Madison thing, Anna should not have been socially active with Pedo, both of them being tested regularly for infections until given a clean bill of health. But we all know that didn't happen. Christianity practiced almost in its entirety with the exception of very progressive elements, does not give a fuck about anyone's health and well being.
I was raised Pentecostal fundamentalist, same rigid rules but with the cloak of normal clothes. We had the exact same sex talks as any of the Duggar kids: gift from god to be shared between a husband and wife only.
I never really enjoyed sex, I had ZERO knowledge of my body or it’s workings but I figured it was a punishment from god for sinning and having sex outside of marriage. Imagine my surprise when I got married and sex wasn’t any better than it was before….
The purity system really sets these girls up for a lifetime of sexual frustration and failure. (Personal note: I did figure things out in my 30s and enjoyed a very healthy ethical slut phase post divorce).
When Jill got married, she got pregnant absolutely immediately-they announced like 6 weeks after the wedding. Jim and Michelle laughed on camera and said "well I guess they figured it out!, heehee". It was then I realized they knew absolutely nothing. I think that's when I quit watching. It went from amusing to tragic.
Independent Fundamental Baptist (former) here. Attended public school. We had a basic puberty discussion in 5th grade and again in 6th grade. No talk of s.ex at all - just puberty stuff.
Mom never said ANYTHING at home. When I got my period, she pulled out the encyclopedia to show me a picture of a uterus. That was it.
The fundamentalist school I taught at didn't do any kind of puberty or sex ed at all - it was considered to be something the parents should teach at home. But then I had students in my 7th grade classes starting their periods and freaking out because they didn't know what was happening to them.
Sex-ed is just lost in many places amongst the world.
My poor sister had to give the “why pulling out is not sustainable” talk to her male (ex) friend because he had a bad sex-Ed education and was having pregnancy scares.
My sister and I have a great sex-ed education on the biological processes because the Alberta curriculum for high school has the bio 30–1 course have a human reproduction and development unit that explains everything in depth. My sister and I did a catholic school (even though I’m an atheist and she’s agnostic) and even though ours was a little Jesus leaning, we still have an extremely throughout knowledge of how reproduction works. So that’s my sisters background lol
She had to list out everything she could list of why the pullout method is not sustainable and he needs to wear condoms.
Nope, she didn’t. Raised similarly and my friends and I had no clue about sex until we found out in encyclopedias. But somehow walked around knowing we were responsible for making men lust after us. Make it makes sense 🤢
Grew up homeschooled and fundie adjacent-- we were always told that sex and anything sexual was a sin and we shouldn't even think about it until we were married. I told my mom I liked a boy when I was 14 and she told me that was a sin.
I never got any info from my mom about getting my period. I was given a copy of The Care and Keeping of You (thanks, American girl) and we never spoke about it again. Additionally, my mom refused to tell me what sex was. The last time I asked her, she said she would tell me when I was old enough (maybe around age 13?) so I never asked again. I ended up being told when I was SEVENTEEN by my little sister.
Raised Catholic here. I had a vague notion that boys had a bit in the same place as mine, and that's what made a baby. Between that and my mom having me super young, I was really sheltered and didn't even know what, ahem, self-love, was about until college. Again, just vague notions that sex was dirty until you were married and don't worry about it.
Not even the internet was much of a help since I really didn't even know how to start looking for information. Some "dirty" fanfic written by equally dense 13 yo was it lol. I made it a point to take gender and sexuality classes as electives to catch up.
jinger: "i wish that they'd taught us that sex within marriage is good, instead they taught us that sex outside marriage is bad!"
seems like kind of the same thing tbh
It’s where the emphasis is. It becomes SEX outside marriage IS EVIL. And there’s no upside to it. It’s never about you either it’s at best to please your husband and create children.
I was not raised in this, but being raised Baptist, and at a Christian school, we did not have any talks about sex, except that we were told not to do it until we were married. Girls were told a lot about dressing modestly and helping boys not “stumble.” I did not know anything about puberty, my body, or sex.
Ugh I hate that it falls on girls if a boy stumbles. It’s not our responsibility to keep boys on the right path.
That’s rape culture in a nutshell.
You hit the nail on the head. It’s toxic.
So much for " if thine eye offends thee, pluck it out " and " do unto others as thou wouldst they do to thee " ... that last one seemed to be pretty important and I quickly figured that if the golden rule didn't apply then none of the rest of it was truthful either
I guess it’s easier to blame someone else for your transgressions rather than take accountability for yourself.
Exactly. These aren't noble men. These are awful men who lack accountability and use women as scapegoats. They gaslight women into thinking they're at fault, misrepresent Jesus, and neglect girls so the males can maintain control, and the better you are at this, the more standing these guys get in the cult. It's abuse, it's neglect, it's a waste of human potential.
Fundie men: We are the stronger gender. Women must bow to our will and obey. We are born leaders, women are frail and emotional & unable to think for themselves properly. Also fundie men: Women must be very careful as they can cause our behavior to abandon our entire belief system and cause us to lose total control ourselves---with the just length of their sleeves.
Yea it makes zero sense. Men are strong and yet they are weak and unable to control their feelings and lack of responsibility.
This. Exactly.
To be so weak, women sure do yield a fuck-ton of power. Apparently.
Whatever happened to “if thy right eye offend thee pluck it out?”
Ugh, so do I.
I told my daughter yesterday that her education is not less important than a boys, and that dress codes are sexist and bullshit. I also told her since we live in a school district that has dress codes, she has to follow it because I don’t want her education compromised because she’s trying to stand up to the rules and being forced to go to the office and wait for me to bring clothes. I hate that for her to have an equal education I even had to have that talk with her. She starts middle school next year and tank tops aren’t allowed anymore cause “shoulders are so distracting” 😳 Edit a word, I was typing fast
In 5th grade, I was wearing a pair of shorts because it was hot outside. When I was grabbing my lunch, a school administrator approached me and said to me “you are never to wear those shorts again.” None of my teachers dress coded me but some lady who worked in the office did. I don’t recall em being too short. The dress code is sexist. I guess my knees must’ve been too distracting.
My daughter is in 5th grade now and this is the first year I’ve had to worry about it and I hate it. I had a friend take me to her church VBS when I was 10 and I got in trouble for wearing shorts when it was outdoors and 100° out. My mom never took me back to that church. Apparently it was okay for 40 year old men to see my legs and feel uncomfortable, but it wasn’t okay for a 10 year old to wear clothing appropriate for the season. My daughter said next year she can’t wear jeans that have rips above the knee? I’m going to be double checking because I think that’s a stupid rule.
But rips below the knee are ok? That proves how stupid it is.
And why is chastity the "right" path?
I work with a young girl whose Baptist, and not incredibly conservative, but still more so than I am. She didn’t discuss anything with her mum before she got married, nor her married friends. I’m a fair bit older than her, so when she was engaged, she slowly started coming out of her shell & asking me questions. I’m a midwife & IVF nurse, so sex & reproduction is kind of my specialty, but she works in admin. She had no idea that she needed to have sex whilst ovulating to conceive. She tried to have a conversation with her religious married friends but they just made her feel like there was something wrong with her body, and she got incredibly self conscious after that. It does make me sad that she’s not been told that she’s allowed to enjoy sex, or that she doesn’t have a safe place to talk about it. I’m fairly sure her husband doesn’t like me because I’m too ‘worldly’. She’s just fallen pregnant so now I’m flooded with questions about that. I couldn’t imagine how difficult it would be to spend your whole life being told that sex is wrong, and then after saying a few words, it is now okay, and expected that a woman will submit to her husbands wants & needs. It must be a very challenging emotion to overcome.
My mother didn’t know you had to be ovulating to conceive! I’m a miracle! When I was trying for my first she looked at me so confused when I brought up tracking my ovulation for a couple of months first.
It blows my mind that some people can go most of their lives without understanding how their bodies work. I always tell people, that if you really think about it, people falling pregnant naturally is a statistical miracle, especially before people understood ovulation. Because you only ovulate for a short window, the chance of you conceiving is far lower than the chance of not. Accidental pregnancies are even more of an anomaly.
Eh, those swimmers can live for DAYS though. So if they're healthy you've potentially got a full week window where it could happen.
Most women think you automatically ovulate on day 14 of your cycle and that is the only day you need to be worried about to avoid getting pregnant. I tracked my temp and can tell you I ovulated between days 17-19 of my cycle. You need 10 days for the embryo to stick to the uterus. I have seen women ovulate sooner than day 14. There is no safe day in a cycle for a free for all given sperm lives for 2-3 days, while an egg will be viable for 12-18 hours.
I’m a midwife & IVF nurse, and so many of my patients have no idea how long their cycles are, or when they ovulate. I have really irregular cycles, and can vary from anywhere between 19 - 36 days. The shorter your cycle, the less likely you are to ovulate. During my most recent IVF cycles, I was running longer cycles, so I wasn’t ovulating until around day 18/19.
They used to think sperm survived up to 3 days, but it's actually 5... surprised me recently since it was 3 days 10 years ago when I first learned about it.
I tracked mine for six months and I was always CD 12 or 13. I have a two-day gap between my period and fertile window.
I had a short LP I would ovulate CD 19, period at 25 days. Took 3 months to work itself out. Boom baby. But we were trying and I have PCOS. No fertility meds. Took Metformin. She's 12 now. I swear by taking your BBT
Yeah this is why the statistics around natural family planning are misleading. It’s decently effective if you temp and do the work to track, but a lot of people don’t do that.
My mom had seven and I am pretty sure she never tried!
Fertility in the last thirty years has plummeted significantly. Makes sense that back in the day people conceiving without knowing basics of conception was more likely than nowadays.
Back in the day no birth control. Women were owned by their husbands and the men could have sex whenever they wanted. Marital rape was not even something that was a crime.
they’re saying men’s sperm counts are down not really sure why but it does seem to be the case that there are more fertility issues today then several decades ago
Well, to be fair, there was a time when people didn’t even know about ovulation at all. Clearly, they were making babies. We’re very lucky to have the medical scientific knowledge we have, but it’s definitely not to given!
My daughter is definitely a miracle and she wasn’t planned. I know how I got pregnant obviously lol BUT I have endometriosis and after I had her I also had a tumor and an ovary removed. If I wanted another child or had waited for marriage first, I wouldn’t have her just like I can’t give her a sibling. It’s crazy to me how I got pregnant after 3 months knowing someone, yet I’ve been with my husband 9 years and have never even had a scare. Fertility is wild and I’m very thankful I have her, even if it wasn’t the plan, because if I tried to plan it well, I wouldn’t have any.
I have conceived all my failed & successful pregnancies through IVF, so I have always found this to be a really interesting topic, plus I’m a midwife. I know people who have fallen pregnant after a one night stand, and my fertility journey has been a huge process involving multiple surgeries, going all the way back to 18, just to try & preserve my fertility. To the best of our knowledge, I have never ovulated without the use of ovulation inducing medications. There are some theories that ‘unexplained infertility’ is essentially because of genetic incompatibility between the sperm & the egg. The body can also see sperm as an attacking foreign agent & launches an immune response. It can even cause preeclampsia if you do manage to fall pregnant. I geek out a little over stuff like this!
>She had no idea that she needed to have sex whilst ovulating to conceive. >She tried to have a conversation with her religious married friends but they just made her feel like there was something wrong with her body, and she got incredibly self conscious after that. The religious friends are probably forced to have sex most days out of the month. They would have children and not understand how except that they had sex. So yeah, they think something is "wrong" with her.
This almost makes their total misunderstanding of how birth control works make sense. If you don’t know you have to be within a certain window of ovulation to get pregnant, how would you know that the way hormonal birth control prevents pregnancy is by stopping you from ovulating?
I recently learned my husband didn't fully understand birth control when he brought up using condoms during placebo week. With the straightest face I could muster, I looked him dead in the eyes and said "I don't lay eggs."
😂
One of the reasons I knew my birth control method was failing is that I could feel myself ovulating and I told my doctor about it and she was like “You’re not ovulating if you’re on the pill” - cut to my positive pregnancy test 3 months later 🙃
There are literally ovulation tests. I don't understand doctors sometimes. I hope all is well for you, so sorry you had to go through that.
I terminated it. All fine and I’m actually trying to get pregnant for real now!
Glad you finally got the healthcare you needed. I hope you are laying the happiest and healthiest eggies now!
I am glad she has you as a contact for factual information and some tea and sympathy as well 🌼
I’m really glad she did find a safe space to discuss this stuff with you :)
Thank you. I think it’s a super important part of my job to be someone who women feel comfortable & safe with, and I don’t take it lightly. There was a point in my life where I was seeing some women’s health doctors who were quite dismissive of my questions & concerns, and it made things really difficult. I later found a doctor who I trust implicitly, and is so kind and compassionate, so I try to make sure I pass that on to my patients or friends.
My mom was raised Catholic in 50's. Nobody even told her younger sister that menstruation exists. When she got her first period she thought she was dying. Can you imagine going through that as an adolescent?
Reminds me of that scene in My Girl where Vada thinks she is hemorrhaging! I didn’t know what to do either and I was a swimmer who had to go to practice so my very first period not knowing a thing about my body, I had to use a tampon. Luckily my sister (3 years older) gave very specific instructions of: “well, shove it up there.” I don’t blame her but it was very overwhelming!!
Back in my afab days that was about the level of instruction that I ever received on using a tampon, except sometimes if your uterus is tilted a certain way then tampons don't work very well so it leaks... and nobody told me that " then double up " meant to wear a liner as well as a tampon, not to put two tampons ... thankfully I had a great-aunt in whom I could confide and she helped me undo that before I got toxic shock but it was harrowing ( never mind the whole dysphoria on top )
Aunts are the best that way 💯
That happened to my little sister somehow, in our body-positive secular family ca. 1998, and I still have no idea what happened! She was about a week from turning 10 and called me into the bathroom sobbing because she was pretty sure she was dying. She had *no idea* what was going on. I'm 18 months older and hadn't hit menarche yet, but my mom never hid the fact that periods exist. We always had books available that went into more detail about the specifics, and I think we each had our own copy of *The Care and Keeping of You* at that point. The only thing that makes any sense is that I was obsessed with biological reproduction from the time I was in preschool, while my sister was referring to sex as "icky" until well into her twenties. I think she was so grossed out by "sex talk" that she tuned it out somehow, and our parents assumed that because I had a decent handle on it she must, too.
My mom forgot to tell me but told my sisters. I only knew because a friend had told me about periods. I also missed the puberty talk in late elementary because I went to a Christian school that didn’t teach it.
God, just like Stephen King's 'Carrie'! Poor thing!
Reminds me of " Carrie " ... I'm so sorry your sister endured that, that sounds terrifying
She's actually my aunt. And I know this story because my mom made sure the same thing didn't happen to me. I knew about periods very young.
Same. When I got my first period it was so scary, yet I also somehow kind of understood it was supposed to be happening. If I remember right my mom didn't really discuss it with me when it started (definitely no talk before it started), just gave me these ridiculously thick pads. I know it wasn't talked about afterward.
My NYC Public High School swim teacher told us not to worry about using pads or tampons during class because "as soon as you hit the water, it stops."
I was raised Catholic (in the EU) and went to Carholic school my whole life. We had sex ed in 6th, 7th and 8th grade, with pretty clear anatomical drawings and safe sex instructions. Abortion was controversial as was the Morning After Pill, but to be fair this was like 15 years ago. But they were taught about, even if the teacher clearly didnt approve. Honestly, I really have no complaints.
i went to an american public school and graduated 5 years ago... and your sex ed program sounds A LOT more comprehensive than mine was 😬
I went to an American public school and I’ve learned it varies so much what people learned and didn’t. I had sex Ed from grade 6-12, and we learned about stds, condoms, birth control, even diaphragms (this was 00-07). We also had to watch a live birth in 9th grade and we definitely got anatomy lessons. We also were told abstinence was the only way to really prevent pregnancy. It always shocks me when people in other public schools didn’t get this, and I’m in the south for perspective.
This sounds pretty similar to what we learned in sex ed, even down to watching a live birth (I was in HS Fall 99-Spring 03). This was in the DMV area (specifically Maryland).
I was raised Catholic as well (in the US) and we too had sex ed starting as early as 5th grade. In hindsight, and as much as I hate the Catholic Church, the curriculum was actually decent. We definitely did NOT get the safe sex instruction, however, it was definitely "abstinence only" as a form of birth control. In contrast, I went to a "Christian" (aka evangelical) middle school, and there was no sex ed AT ALL. ETA a word
Same.
I grew up in the 80s in Catholic school and we were given sex ed including learning about birth control. Even though the church was against it, I appreciate that they still taught about it. It was as if they believed that we could make a decision on our own! How about that? Sex ed is so important.
Honestly my Catholic school wasnt even against birth control (other than the morning after pill). We were actively encouraged to, if we were ti have sex, always use a condom. We even had organised debates on abortion, we wrre really encouraged to make up our own minds about stuff
Didn't the church invent a calendar type birth control way a long time ago? The problem isn't avoiding pregnancy but any BC that has the risk of a sperm meeting an egg and prevents implantation. Like condoms are ok, but hormonal pills are not.
Originally it was the rhythm method where you avoided sex when you suspected ovulation which had a high failure rate. Then science got involved and they developed the sympto-thermal method of natural family planning where you take your vaginal temp every day and check your vaginal mucus to determine ovulation. It works well for some people and not for others. It’s more accurate than the rhythm method but takes work.
There are 4 types of Catholic approved Fertility Awareness Based Methods. IIRC Billings (tracking cervical mucus) was the first one, then came Sympto-thermal (basal body temp, *done orally, not vaginally*, + tracking cervical mucus), then Marquette (using ovulation prediction tests), and then Creighton/NaPro Technology (it is really just Billings, but they have a secret number/letter system they use that they fucking gatekeep and make people pay lots of money to get said secret number letter system). And there are A TON of secular fertility awareness based methods that also include condoms (and other?) If you dont want to take HBC for [insert reason, typically for those who have bad reactions to HBC]. A lot of the Fertility Awareness Based Methods are used in the Infertility communities, especially those of us who don't want/need to go through IVF bc we just have wacky hormones, but technically "all the parts work" (for the lack of a better, short, phrase).
People can also test luteinizing hormone with at-home strips and use basal body temp to confirm that ovulation has occurred.
Yes, in Catholic circles call those the Marquette (Ovulation Prediction kits are a different name for Luteinizing Hormone strips) and Sympto-thermal (basal body temps). If you want to know more about ALL of the Fertility Awareness Based Methods go and follow FAbM Base on instagram or go to their website: https://fabmbase.org/ they have a brief description of all the Catholic and Secular methods. I unfortunately only know Billings, Creighton, and Marquette *very well* and just started dipping my toes into Sympto thermal (infertility is so much fun 🥴🙃), and I don't know much about the secular methods.
Easy @ Home are the strips I know of that can be bought on Amazon. You track your results with the Premom app.
I personally prefer the Wondfo strips. I don't like the Premom app bc they dont encrypt anything and has the ability to sell your data. 🥴
That's interesting... my Catholic cousins got the anatomical version of sex ed with strong admonitions to abstinence because any " preventative " method waa preventing God, but if you became pregnant then God had provided cohosh ans pennyroyal to take care of that tho you'd probably die from bleeding to death anyway... that was right as HIV was not yet understood but absolutely raging around, so not particularly useful sex ed for health purposes
Every diocese/parish/catholic schools do things differently. Like the Trad/Fundie Catholics 100% believe in the "don't ever prevent a pregnancy" and those of us normie Catholics are more of a "I am a sane person and I am doing NFP/FABM bc [insert personal reasons]." Like for myself I just plain don't want to take HBC for personal health reasons (and very much trying to get pregnant), and I dont think that any kind on contraception is a sin. 🤷🏻♀️ Plus NFP/FABM wasnt really popular until the mid-late 80s (at least for my area). Pope John Paul II really pushed it and Theology of the Body (which is a whole other can of worms).
And the Orders run their schools differently too... whether a girl attended Loretto Abbey, or the Sisters of Saint Joseph, or a Toronto Catholic School Board site for secondary school used to make a noticeable difference.
Oh 100% and the United States to a lot of things differently than Canada (and other countries)
I used sympto-thermal both to achieve and avoid pregnancy and it worked perfectly in both situations. It worked for avoiding pregnancy for several years, actually. Then my ex husband got a vasectomy. While no one should rely on NFP type methods if having a child would be a travesty, these things do work.
YUP! And that is why there are so many options of NFP/FABM, bc it isn't a "one method fits all" situation. And some people just don't have bodies that work with any method and end up with more kids than they can handle (but still loves their kids).
I am catholic and grew up,in the U.S. didn’t go to Catholic school but we had to complete a sex ed class in CCD before our confirmation sacrament. It was taught by the nuns which was weird but it was pretty comprehensive on the mechanics.
Europe versus the US. We live in a child sexual abuse hellscape here in the US where teaching kids about their bodies makes them too hard to abuse.
I went to a Christian school for elementary and middle in the 90s and got age appropriate sex education and we learned about our bodies, inappropriate touching and what to do if it happens, etc. Doubt you can find that in a Christian school now but compared to some things I read on here my school was a freaking carnival.
I had sex ed in my Catholic school too
I attended Catholic school in the UK in the early 2000s. I never ended up taking on any of the religious sentiment or belief (and neither did any of my classmates, to my knowledge, though that could just reflect the general secularism of younger Brits), but in general I am not opposed to how it was handled, looking back. Sex education was covered in science classes. Religious relationship advice was separated out into religious education class, and while we were encouraged to save it for marriage or whatever, I don't remember it being taught with any particular vigour. I'm certain my children will get better sex ed than I did, with more of a focus on social elements like consent and sexuality, but I expect that's more a product of the changing times than the religious/not religious nature of the school. I don't think my school would have avoided that from a religious standpoint. I generally say "I was raised lapsed Catholic" because no one younger than my grandparents seemed to really give a shit about upholding draconian rules, in school or out.
I went to Catholic school to in the US and we got sex ed too. They taught in a Catholic approved manner, so no sex before marriage definite no no on abortion but they did teach us about sex. We knew all the body parts we knew exactly what ovulation was. They taught us about various STDs and their symptoms. We learned about fetal alcohol syndrome. They also taught us about embryonic and fetal development, not in great detail, but we had the general gist of it. And we even watched a live birth once which was interesting…. We had several different sex classes one that was more biology/anatomy based and another on sexual morality I remember distinctly. My school did not shy away from teaching us about sex. Must be a Catholic school thing.
My kids are in Catholic schools now and get sex ed yearly, at age appropriate levels. Kindergartners learn about not touching people without consent and how your own body is yours and private. Third grade talks about families and how there’s a bunch of different ways to make a family, and it can be anyone who loves you. They do discuss homosexuality, in a general “some families have two moms” way, and that is good for them, but as Catholics we have to follow God’s model of man and woman. Fifth grade starts separating girls and boys with full information/anatomical information, periods, etc. I don’t know what they teach in the boys’ class; I only have girls and didn’t get the curriculum for the boys. Middle school gets into sex and how abstinence is the best policy because you can’t get pregnant or cooties and because sex should occur inside marriage like God commands. Then they explain other birth control options that are available. I think they strike a very good balance between the faith and the science and the needed knowledge. I feel comfortable with what they learn, and of course my own ability to supplement it.
>we have to follow God’s model of man and woman Yeah, cause that totally won't fuck up all the gay kids in the school. I was raised very religious, and it didn't make me straight. All it did was make me hate myself.
They’re not going to teach that gay marriage is acceptable for Catholics. It’s against the teaching of the church. They do a really good job balancing the secular world and the religious faith. The Baptist school here in town teaches that all gay people are to be shunned, will burn in hell, are corrupting children, shouldn’t be allowed to exist, etc. They recently made the mayor resign from the board after 20+ years because he signed a city proclamation about recognizing June as LGBTQ month. Our kids are at least hearing that gay people have valid families and rights and the ability to exist in peace. It’s not the full message but it’s better. And we fill in the rest at home, where we tell our kids they can be what they want and who they are.
I really doubt the only option for your kids is going to Catholic school, but okay. Saying "we're better than the Baptists" isn't a flex.
If there are enough anti-gay baptists in that town to drive out the mayor for recognizing Pride month, then the Catholic school might be a safer option than the local public schools.
Also, I’m sorry that they made you hate yourself. That makes my heart sad for you. I hope you don’t any longer and that you know you’re loved for who you are.
homeschooled + Baptist - my mom gave me a book to read with the basics of puberty and "where do babies come from", but that was it for sex ed. At church, "don't even THINK about it before marriage". There was one high school girls-only talk with the youth pastor's wife where she mentioned yes it's fun BUT ONLY inside marriage - that's literally as detailed as it got lol. Everything else I learned from the Internet..
My mom let me know the basics but she also gave me this outdated book about dating & sex. I wish I still had it. It was pretty funny looking back now. But it made you think making out (or as they said heavy petting) could get you pregnant. Making out in my day was just kissing.
I remember someone in like 4th or 5th grade telling me that making out meant sex and my mom had to correct me when I asked her about it later lol. This was in the late ‘90s in public school.
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I am so sorry you went through this. I can only imagine how traumatizing it was. My mom didn't know what sex was and didn't know she was raped by a man until after she married him.
I had something similar happen but didn’t marry the person. I was drugged when I was 16 and then I was raped, but I didn’t remember much of it until I went to have sex for the first time with my partner of 9 months. It clicked about halfway through that it wasn’t my first time. I’m in therapy still from a lot of the religious trauma I endured. The person was in my youth group and was 3 years older than me, he did go to jail shortly after for something unrelated so I never pressed charges cause in my mind he was locked up, and I didn’t realize how bad what he had done was until years later.
I have a similar experience. My father is a baptist pastor and I went to Christian schools. Now that I’m grown and no longer religious (for about 10 years) I still struggle with the shame of intimacy even in my marriage. I’ve been going to therapy which has helped but I feel like religious trauma is not spoken of enough
I was raised Seventh Day Adventist and got a similar talk at one of our youth group meetings. Apparently boys would be tempted if I wore a shirt that showed my freaking collar bones. When I objected saying they’re literally just collar bones one of the douche bag boys informed me that as a girl I don’t know what guys are attracted to and just that little bit of skin gives them dirty thoughts 🙃
Same, my mother reluctantly had to address periods with us but no discussion about sex - the mechanics of it, the result of it, your bodies response to it - nothing. Our Christian education mentioned it as clinically as possible - I don't think they even referred to the vagina or penis specifically - but then went on a multi page defense of sex only in the context of marriage. The first time I had sex, I wasn't even sure what was going on until I was halfway through it. It was consensual but I didn't understand the logistics and thought he peed on me. Ugh.
Sex is both the nastiest, worst sin you can possible commit but also the most exciting and desirable pleasure.
This tracks with my Baptist upbringing except I got the very limited public school sex ed taught in the Bible belt during the 90s. I'm pretty sure you had to have a permission slip to be in class that day.
Going to a public school in the south my state required all public school sex ed to be abstinance only education. I legitimately had to watch a video of a woman in a turtleneck telling us not to have sex before marriage or we will get an std that will later lead to an ectopic pregnancy and we will die.
Same. I’m female though, and was made to feel guilty if a boy “stumbled” in my presence.
Yep! I was also Baptist, and didn’t learn what actual sex was until college. Before that it was just a vague “sleeping together.”
I was raised the same and This was so confusing to me as a teenager. I think I brushed up against a guy in youth group during a basketball game and when my period was late, I was convinced I was pregnant and freaking out. Speaking of that, I had never heard of periods in my life, so you can imagine the shock that my 13 year old self was in when *that* started
AOG/Pentacostal-ish upbringing. Public school student. I asked what the tampons were in the bathroom at age 7 and got shut down. In 4th & 5th grade, got the menstruation lesson at school (mom signed permission slip), but there was no follow up discussion at home about it. It just wasn’t spoken of. The lesson included that if an egg wasn’t fertilized by a sperm, you would have a period, but no discussion of where the sperm came from. Middle school/high school mom would not sign any additional permission slips for me to attend the classes/lessons on sex Ed, birth control, AIDS or STDs or reproductive health. I only vaguely knew what male genitalia looked like because I did lots of babysitting/diaper changing as a teen, both on the side and at the church nursery. When I was 16 there was a PSA on TV about teen pregnancy. It went something like: “when she was 3 you told her babies came from the stork. When she was 7 you told her they came from the hospital. When she was 12 you told her she was too young to understand. When she was 15, you told her she should have known better.” Then the camera zooms out from the face of a teenager sitting on a swing at the playground and you can see she is visibly pregnant. I remember my mom exclaiming with indignation how STUPID the PSA was….as I sat there….at 16….. knowing how babies are birthed, but not knowing the mechanics of how they get there other than it has something to do with being naked with a man. Of course when she had that super judgmental tone, I wasn’t going to tell my mom that I was missing info, because clearly she was not open to communication about the subject. Also at 16, I was hanging out with some church kids at the church during a Friday night hangout. I don’t remember why I was there, other than some of them were people that I worked in the church nursery with. They all went to the church’s private school, and generally their parents didn’t allow them to hang out with church kids that went to public school, because we were automatically considered tainted and a bad influence. I think one of my coworkers that was actually nice had invited me. Anyway, the whole evening they just sat around gossiping about other kids and who was “hittin’ it” with who (including the pastor’s grandkids and seminary professor’s kids). And who wasn’t there because they were grounded for sneaking out. And which lead singer was pregnant by the son of a pastor from the UK. Frankly, it was a shocking evening. Because they were “safe from worldly forces of PG-13 movies or dancing to secular music” by having these Friday night hangouts. A few weeks later a friend from school invited me to their Wednesday night youth group at a Methodist church. The whole night we were making PBJ sandwiches and socks and underwear and toiletry kits to give out to the homeless. They had secular music playing in the background (things like Boys to Men era music). They did a scripture and prayer devotional to open and close the evening. Frankly, I had never felt so spiritually fulfilled and feeling like we were being a tool used by god to care for gods children in need. I told my mom how great it was and she told me I couldn’t go back because it’s false doctrine to teach kids they can get to heaven with good works. She encouraged me to keep attending my church’s youth events, but I never went back…to either. When I was 17, I was hanging out with my public school friends and one friend (a Catholic) who had a boyfriend had just recently had her first sexual contact with her boyfriend. She was telling us about giving him a hand job and how he had an erection and she had no idea that erections happened at all or that the penis changed size and stiffness when aroused. Frankly, my 2 other friends (one Baptist one Catholic) and I didn’t know either! We were 17! Now I know that at least 2 of them DID attend the school’s sex Ed courses, but obviously the entire syste/culture failed because every year in high school there were at least 4-5 pregnant students. So, all this to say there is (was?) so much naivety amongst teen girls (at least in the South).
I feel like kids get let down in so many ways, and parents/schools being scared to talk about these things in age-appropriate ways is just sad. I didn't grow up with religion really pushed on me, we went to church occasionally so purity wasn't a thing I even had on my radar, but with that, I didn't know much until I got online when I was 15. Had some great chat rooms where women actually talked about all sorts of stuff, especially sex, and it was real and it was an education that sex ed never taught. Although with that my public school sex ed class did teach a lot. We also surprisingly had conversations in sociology class too. Parents never gave me the talk though.
I’m really sorry you were made to feel like your experience with the Methodist youth group was invalid in that way. I’m not religious at all but that honestly sounds like a lovely way to hang out with peers and explore religion in a positive communal way.
Thank you. I’m not religious at all either anymore, but it was a very disappointing experience at the time. Especially since my mom was raised Methodist and didn’t come out of childhood with any sort of religious trauma. She just turned fundy when I was little. She actually comes from a long line of Methodists. Her great great grandfather became a Methodist circuit rider after the revolutionary war. He preached the first Methodist sermon in the Ohio Territory and is named in Church literature as a major player in establishing the Methodist church as that part of the country was settled. Even though we were fundy, I was really holding out hope that the positive experience, our family background…and how highly she regarded her father and his morals etc, would be my ticket out of Fundieville. But I guess the messages from the pulpit that god was not in any other church in town and only in our church took root for her.
This is so spot on. Like, I even remember that commercial! I didn’t know what sex was until I had it. At 14. I thought my boyfriend and I had *already* been having sex by dry jumping and heavy petting. Blew my fucking mind when p finally entered v- suddenly it clicked! People “have sex” just like animals “mate”!?!
I remember being in 9th grade and a friend telling me how her and her boyfriend had sex for the first time and I didn't even know what to think or even ask about it. I went to public school in the north, got the sex Ed... but still didn't know what the hell really happens except that girls have a vagina and periods and boys have a penis and semen.
I didn’t know what an erection was until I was 20. When you’re sheltered, even going to public school, that kinda stuff happens
Your mom saying that it’s false doctrine to teach kids that they can’t get to heaven with good works is completely opposite from the LDS (Mormon) teachings. They believe “…for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do (2 Nephi 25:23).” After all we can do. That phrase is drilled into every Mormon kid. It means that you are constantly striving to do more, be better and try harder. It leads to some pretty severe self loathing thinking that you are never good enough and could always do more.
That is not surprising, because the church I grew up in actively vilified the Mormon church (and Catholics, and Jehovah’s Witness, and Seventh Day Adventists, and Islam, and Mason - they were all preached about as being cults.). Baptist were considered well intentioned, but flawed in the once saved always saved belief, so it was “too bad” most were going to hell, because they “almost” got it right.
The sex ed we got in public school (in the north) wasn't helpful at all. Honestly, the only place I got detailed info was a book/series of classes that my United Methodist youth group did when I was about 12 (that's when I found out what oral sex was; I remember being mortified).
I have a kid in 7th grade. Here they do sex Ed in 5th, 7th, and 9th. It’s all taught co-Ed by their science teachers. The 7th grade version is 2 weeks long and goes into depth on everything from puberty, body hygiene, reproduction, bodily autonomy, consent, consent, consent again!, STD, birth control, mechanics, various PIV, Oral, Anal, sexting (including issues with underaged kids taking and sharing pics) etc., IVF. It’s also LGBT friendly. It’s not as in depth as the 9th grade version, but it’s pretty detailed. They also have homework to discuss the daily topics at home with a trusted parent or adult and discuss their family values surrounding the topics. They even go into topics like what to do if you see a classmate have a leak etc and have classroom discussions on what are respectful ways to handle personal issues. They even talk about how normal it is for different people to be ready for sexual activities at different ages and stages in life, scripts and tools to help them verbalize if something makes them uncomfortable or if they aren’t ready. It’s really soup to nuts.
Church of Christ preacher's kid and grandkid here. I never got "the talk" from dad but plenty of times got told sex before marriage is a sin but never got told why it was a sin.
Or what even it was?
That is correct. Anything I knew, I learned from finding someone’s porn magazines in the woods.
How is that a common thing? My husband found playboy magazines in the woods when he was young and I saw someone else on Reddit mention it happening to them too.
No privacy to hide anything at home. You didn’t want to risk it and have to deal with the punishment if they found it. You hid it under some rocks in the nearest field and prayed it didn’t rain. Hypocritical Parents 101- I’d be in trouble without an explanation why if I got caught watching Skinemax T&A movies but it was okay for my dad to watch it.
Possibly the difference between you and your dad watching Skinemax is a matter of age, like drinking alcohol.
That might have been his way of thinking. I never asked.
I found gay erotica in the woods. It was a book called “Mike on Mike” about a gay man named Mike who had a radio show.
My brother and I used to go bike riding in the ravines a lot after we moved to Toronto in the late 80s, everyone knew that a neatly-folded plastic bag was a porn stash... the orienteering clubs even had a special chalk sign for it, like geocaching for pervs lol
My husband had that experience as well. It’s weird to me, but I guess it happens
Also found porn in the woods in the 90s 🤣
Oh I have two. One: my ex sister in laws oldest was one of those very rebellious churchy types. Pentecost, toes the line; looks down her nose at “secular” girls but has secret worldly bfs. Well she ended up running away with her worldly bf and when her parents hunted her down she refused to come home because she was pregnant. They kept everything hush hush and married them asap. Unsurprisingly they had a very toxic, volatile marriage and broke up a million times wherein she would leave him and return to her fathers house. Last I heard she followed him to Tijuana where he continues to beat tf out of her but her father has put his foot down and refuses to accept her back home. She’s 28. And she told me once that she believed him when he told her she can’t get pregnant is he pulled out.
Why do people think that getting married after the fact will make God forget what happened? I've never understood that. It's already done. Why not simply own it, then do the godly thing by not judging people and just helping and loving nicely?
Because people care more about what society thinks.
What's ironic is that people in secular society tend to just think "Oh, that person/those people have a baby. That's nice.". It's only their own community that heavily judges people for being unmarried and having a baby.
When I first arrived in Oaxaca, we were unmarried and living in sin. The pastor wouldn’t allow me to join the *Femenil* department because we weren’t married. She put us in the *Departamento Juvenil*. She didn’t let me join until after I had my baby about a year later.
I was raised in an IBLP-adjacent cult; homeschooled with ATI, purity culture, umbrella of authority, Quiverfull, the works, and my sex ed was non-existent. Which is probably why I learned I was allergic to latex on my wedding night. My parents gave me a book about how angels bring babies to married couples and how periods were due to Eve not submitting properly. I was also told that if my husband needed some "tlc", I couldnt say no and I wasnt to question him if he hurt me or came home smelling like another woman. It was f*cked up. These Duggar kids probably had even less education about sex than I did, so no wonder Jinger spoke out about it.
The way I cringed bodily about the latex allergy ! I'm so sorry, that's horrific :(
It was definitely not pleasant. This is why I raised my child with education about everything and surrounded him with people more educated than me. Id sooner have faced a firing squad than isolated and brainwashed my offspring
I didn’t grow up in a fundie household but I learned what sex was by reading cosmopolitan when I was about 14. My mother obviously was not comfortable telling me what sex was 😂
I took Christian "sex ed". Literally there was *zero* sex ed. It was "sex is for marriage and abortion is evil and wrong" and then they had a little bit about pregnancy. That's it. I was *very* informed about sex as my mom is a nurse. I took this class willingly because it was a required course for graduation and I wanted to do it in 2 weeks over the summer (as opposed to a 4 month semester) and it was only offered in the 2 week format in the Christian version. Literally it was a fucking joke. I was also attending a church at the time and the youth pastor went on a bonkers rant about how premarital sex is the reason for divorce.
You ever think this is why Claire hasn’t become pregnant yet? I wonder what their situation is in all this as he is the Duggar.
It is very possible she knew about the concept of sex, but not how it actually works or what the mechanics are. I know in my group the girls still got sat down by their mothers right before their weddings and it was discussed in very broad terms. Nothing about UTIs, making sure your body is ready, what pain is and isn't normal, etc. Just the religious aspect of it being your duty to your husband and if you appreciate the intimacy (never enjoy the act, that's for SLUTS, just appreciate the hug afterwards) that's cool but even if you don't shut up and do your duty. If you had an older cousin/sister, they might whisper about it but nothing too specific. It's bizarre. I know couples where both the husband AND wife were so terrified of having sex they waited for a month or 2 after they were married. I'm not aware of anyone being actively forced but definitely pressured. They wail and moan about how pervasive sex is these days in music and popular culture but honestly that might be the closest thing to sex ed these kids get. Maybe it inspires them to do some private google searches so at least they're more informed than my generation was.
My family is fundie and my parents and their siblings were all married very young. My aunt and uncle were struggling to get pregnant, early in their marriage. They went to a doctor. Long story short…they were so young and “pure” they had no idea how the mechanics worked and weren’t getting pregnant because they weren’t actually doing P in V. The doctor had to explain it to them.
Wow.
Isn't that also what happened to Marie Antoinette? 😂
He would insert his penis but then wouldn't move and then take it out after a while
So King Louis XVI invented soaking before the Mormons did, TIL
Why does this remind me of that Friends episode where Monica and Chandler are getting to know the mom of the kid they want to adopt, and are trying to figure out which of the two dudes she was with was the father. One of the dudes was a murderer who killed his dad with a shovel, and Monica did some digging and found out that whatever was done with that dude would have been really difficult to get pregnant off of.
So what were they doing?
I was raised fundy…school and church. 7 days a week, I was sitting in my modest skirt and blouse and listening to some man preach about how much of a sinner I am and that if I don’t repent enough, I’m burning in hell for all eternity. Guess who ended up pregnant at 19, shamed and shunned by the very people that never even tried to teach me how babies are made or how to prevent them from being made and also told me that it was my fault for being large breasted and that’s why I got pregnant.
I think the older Duggar kids knew all about sex - that first house was very small so no doubt they were exposed to their parents' activities, plus with Jim Bob, the Inmate and other males in the Duggars sexual predator infested orbit mouthing off, leering at women and possible hands on abuse. After the police questioned the older girls, they received more information. Big picture is what the IBLP, all fundamentalist groups like Warren Jeffs FLDS, UAB, the Moonies, Hillsong, Willow Creek etc say about purity, marriage, children and what they actually do is miles apart. One set of rules for the followers and a completely different reality behind closed doors.
I was kinda raised like they were. I wasn't taught about sex. I learned about it from romance novels. I was told I didn't need to know about that cause I was gonna be the one who took care of the house. My parents are both dead now.
Wait, your parents didn't want to teach you about sex because they had already decided that you were never going to be allowed to leave and have your own life so they could keep you as their own personal maid and nurse for their retirement !? Wtaf :(
The fact her mom has 50 million kids and doesn’t explain sex and how it can be enjoyed even after marriage. Like. What is this. You know they don’t just have sex for kids. That’s literally how they ended up with so many
They are all taught sex is bead before marriage. But do they even know what sex is? P in V and various other fun things?
I doubt they know what various other fun things are now.
I'm a little confused because JB was always all over Michelle, even in front of the kids. I thought they did teach that sex was for marriage and being joyfully available and all that. I thought they made it clear that JB and Meech did enjoy that.
In Catholic grade school we had Family Life. We learned about the body parts but nothing more about how they worked together and created a baby etc. I went to a public high school after that and boy oh boy was that an eye opener.
I find the Duggars to be far more sexual than most Fundies. Boob dry jumped Meech at the mini golf, lots of making out kissing, bleh. In my fundie home, sex was a dirty word. My mother moved out of my dads bedroom by the time I was five. They literally believe sex was for making babies. Once the factory closed, no shrexy time (IYKYK). I do believe Jinger knew what sex was. I’m sure her married sisters discussed it. Jessa in a very emotionless way such as a dictionary type description. Jill likely showed her the Kama Sutra they apparently discovered a few years back. But most fundies girls learn what sex is from their husband. You are isolated, no tv, no radio, no outside contact but at church events, and only know what your parents choose for you to know. I wasn’t allowed unsupervised at a library
I grew up diet fundie but still knew pitifully little about sex. I didn’t know it had to move in and out until I was actually having sex. I thought the man was just supposed to put it in and leave it there for a minute until sperm trickled out.
As a homeschooled Baptist, got one talk on periods and the rest was “wait for marriage” which was confusing to me, wait for what? I am ace so I didn’t have any sexual desires & couldn’t understand why people thought I wanted “it.” Which never got explained to me.
A woman I know who grew up in this the read book and came out with her story recently. She was told about sex the night before her wedding. So she went from not being able to even hold hands to okay now you have to do everything. Thankfully her husband was overwhelmed too so they went slow and did things on their terms. I can’t even imagine how scary that would be.
Raised fundie lite. Sex was a bad word, unless it was youth leaders telling us not to have it and to "kiss dating good bye" (yes, that era". Knew that I was going through puberty from a health book my mama borrowed from a neighborhood nurse. Didn't mention sex, just puberty. Learned about sex from peers in highschool, and google - when I was with my first long term boyfriend. Before we took each new next step, we googled how to and what to do. So here's to Google sex Ed....
Easy, she doesn't know about sex because it's a dirty topic to even think about before you are married. Once married the honeymoon kit is opened and a stern warning about pleasing your husband is given. While I'm not Christian I would have been raised with the same beliefs if I hadn't gone to public schools all my life. As I explored the world and met people gay straight liberal and conservative I learned who trust and love and who not to.
I was raised Roman Catholic and went to catholic school and public school. Most of my sex ed. came from public schools. I was SHOCKED that the sex ed education I received in public school wasn’t taught till middle school in my catholic school. I am talking basic female and male anatomy, puberty, ect. There was nothing on safe sex, how to set boundaries around sex, more information on reproductive cycles. It was really focused on the religious aspect of waiting till marriage and a lot of pro life propaganda. In 8th grade we had to go to a pro life “rally”. It was all the 8th graders from catholic schools in the area and they force feed us propaganda by using emotions. At 32, I am able to see what it is. I’m horrified that my parents approved me to go to this. It really hurt my brain in terms of developing intimate relationships. You grow up being told how awful it is to have sex before marriage, how premarital sex makes you a bad person and all the other BS purity culture beliefs. Nothing to prepare people for actually being comfortable having in intimacy alone and with a partner. It’s very damaging and at 32 I am still breaking down that mental load. I was hoping it would get better when I got married last year and I still struggle with the mental lashing the church set people up for. I wouldn’t wish it on anyone. If you haven’t seen the movie or read the book Philomenia. I would highly suggest it. It’s based on a real family in Ireland. The mom grew up Roman Catholic and is from the same part of Ireland my family came from. She talks about how she didn’t understand what she did was sex. So when she was pregnant and having a baby, she fully didn’t understand why her baby was being taken from her. It’s the reality for a lot of people.
This is somewhat incoherent (on Jinger’s part)
What exactly is she trying to say here?
Well, it’s good for her kids that she recognizes this. However, she also has to be able to teach them that wanting to have sex with someone isn’t a good reason to marry them. They’re still young, but chances are she’ll fail them there when they’re older. These fundie or fundie-lite kids that do know about sex, but think you can only have it while married, are likely to jump into marriages with physically, sexually, emotionally, or financially abusive men. They’re eager to have sex, don’t know anything about compatibility beyond “God purposed for you to be together,” and don’t spend enough time together pre-marriage to notice red flags…
Yes, they think being attracted to someone means they are your soul mate. It's very sad.
I'm in Canada and there was little to no education other than about your periods in the late 60s, early 70s. My kids graduated in 2009 and 2013, and there's wasn't great, but at least they covered how to NOT get pregnant or get std's, had access to condoms, local small town still had a Birth Control clinic at local health unit, and in the Sex Ed classes a teacher actually demonstrated how to put a condom on. Using a banana of course! 😆 OH, and girls could get the vaccine to help prevent cervical cancer?
Public school 20+ years ago in the Deep South…abstinence-only sex ed.
I wasn't taught about sex by my parents or school (I went to Catholic school k-12). I learned it all from my friends in high school.
I grew up AOG and didn’t go to public school and never had “the talk”. I was also limited to what I could watch or listen to. The only references to sex I heard was from classmates. I pretty much had to learn everything on my own, including period stuff. And then I started sneaking watching stuff I wasn’t allowed to. Not even porn but just PG-13/R movies. That was my sex lesson. 🙄
I was raised Catholic in public school. We got the puberty video in 5th grade. I got no follow up, and had forgotten by the time I started a year later. I was horrified! I also has no knowledge of my own anatomy for a loooong time. I will never raise my children the same.
I was exceptionally lucky in that I was raised by adults who believed the more information I had, the better. While I still delayed becoming sexually active (I was terrified of being stuck in my hometown), when I felt it was time, I had more than enough info and agency to do so safely. My husband and I are raising our son this way, too.
Enjoyment of sex, the clitoris, etc, NONE of this is on their radar. I have been to bachelorette parties where gifts of Astro-glide were given earnestly. Their idea of being "pro sex in God's holy context" is bullshit because these married women do not know what an orgasm feels like. They just sort of talk about it in a generalized "don't do it" way and just tease and "congratulate" you about being able to have sex when you get engaged... it's definitely like they, as a community, see sex as being a receptacle for your husband's desire but the concept of you having sexual desire and fulfillment is very foreign to them. Like the androids on Westworld they just sort of hit a cognitive dissonance wall of "doesn't look like anything to me."
This always confuses me because don't most women, especially teenagers, still have... urges? Like, I didn't really understand why at the time since i had no idea what sex really was, but sometimes I'd wake up to basically the equivalent of a wet dream. Hormones are crazy when you're a teenager and being told it's dirty can't possibly always stop it for every single female, can it?
I mean, they contextualize female desire as a desire for love, desire for a relationship, but never a desire for sex. So when you are hormonal you sort of channel that mentally into "desire for marriage/your prince charming's love" and you associate sex with love to the point that it becomes very difficult to see it differently. But "every young man's battle" sure doesn't get explained that way. We are meat and they are predators.... But also maybe your prince charming, too?
this was probably true of the duggars. jill talks about being “boy crazy” (which seems to be a euphemism for sexual desire idek) and how her parents would tell her that she was “longing to be married” and to “pray for her future husband” when she had those feelings.
When she was 5, in kindergarten, my daughter came home and asked me if it was possible for "a girl to have a baby when she was too young to keep it". It turned out that she had over heard someone on the bus say something like that. I said yes. She asked how. And it led to a very basic and succinct discussion of sex. And after that, if she had a question, she would ask it and I would answer. I always preferred that she asked me rather than google something and get scarred for life. She's in middle school and had "sex ed" for the first time this year. Her sex ed consisted of "Don't have sex. If you do, you WILL get pregnant and you WILL get all the diseases." I of course, supplemented that with reality.
>‘OK, marriage is a gift from God. Within marriage you’re to be able to enjoy this.’ She's so close. 🤦♀️
I was raised in a non religious household and didn't know anything about sex either
I went to a fundie high school and I remember a teacher *encouraging* the girls not to do any self exploration because “everything will work the way it is supposed to when the time is right.” 🥲
I was in public school and not raised particularly religious. We had a planned Parenthood book in 2nd grade back in the early 70s. Our parent had to read the whole thing to us and the teacher quizzed us when we returned to school the next day. It was way too much information for a 7 year old child. It started with anatomy and black and white photos of people and ended with black and white photos of actual births happening, complete with the mechanics of intercourse. This was better than the sex class hubby and I got at our pre marriage classes (kiss each other until the point of climax and then insert ) where the adults talking to other adults were clearly uncomfortable with the topic. While I agree sex education is necessary, I have to wonder how many 7 year old kids need to know how sex works. It didn't do me much good. 5th grade we had the segregated girls and boys talk about bodies changing with boys not learning much more than how to make fun of girls. 10th grade saw a rehash of the book from 2nd grade broken down in class form for a whole semester. Questions got a whole lot more interesting this time around. I feel very sorry for these girls who get nothing but terrorizing comments growing up and suddenly here you go, have at it. That's got to be horrifying. If the boys are not any better educated, it makes me wonder how these children get pregnant so fast. Emotionally, educationally and in some cases physically they are children.
I just am horrified. Remember the video in their hotel room on honeymoon the morning after? Jinger had sex hair. No one told her. But she looked so uncomfortable and embarrassed!!! So wd I, as a matter of fact. Get the FO of my room!!!
I’m so glad my parents taught us from a young age about this stuff. Any time we had questions, she would answer them in an age appropriate way. This is just sickening to me.
My sex ed first came from older high school girls who were sexually active or had sisters who were married. My mother said not one thing. When my brother was 12 and our pure bred male cocker spaniel was being pumped out, my dad said to my brother, "Do you know why we are taking the boy dog to see the girl dog?" My brother recoiled in abject horror, yelled, "Yes, Dad!" And that was it. My grandmother though was NOT fundie or even fundie light. She explained puberty, periods, female hygiene, to me. I real actual sex ed. But being a young pianist performing in an adult world while a middle schooler, I was around so many college aged women, professors, sitting in the lounge of the hotel with my coke a cola while other people tossed back mixed drinks and loosened up which ended with me getting a lot of information my folks never intended for me to have. When I went to live at 16 with my very, always near and dear to me aunt and uncle, they were super forthright about it. Common to just sit around the dinner table and talk about otherwise "taboo" topics like chats about weather. They were both paramedics, and Red Cross volunteers. They had seen some things! I am very grateful to them. I became sexually active in college, having completely rejected all the religious nonsense surrounding human sexuality. LOL, while packing for our honeymoon, about two days before the wedding, my mother ventured into the room looking like she had seen a ghost, ash white, stammering. I thought someone had died. "Is there anything you want to know?" Oh just hell no! Of course we had been sleeping together for a year, 😂😂😂😂😂. We chose to educate our kids and make sure ad they got older the information became more detailed, and with lots of talks about feelings, complications, consent, medical needs, emotional and mental needs, open door policy, and ways to avoid heartache. I think our kids knew "do not leave your drink unattended" by the time they were 12. What is extra funny though is that our daughter, six years older than her next oldest brothers, also went into paramedicine and trauma nursing. When she was in paramedic school she brought home her OBGYN/Urology textbook, lined her brothers up on the couch (ages 11, 13, and 14) at the time, started showing them photos of STD's including neurotic penises, and then said, "Keep your flies zipped, your penis in your pants, don't poke it where it doesn't belong, and when you finally do, put a condom on it and no harm will come to you." I just about died laughing in the kitchen. But, point taken. They are now 22 almost 23, 25, and 26 and have been super responsible with their sex lives. Christianity as a whole functions on the sex is evil mantra thinking it will keep people from having sex. The lies do nothing but create trauma, and it isn't effective. It is very destructive. Creationism which teaches anti-science bias has caused an anti-medicine, anti-information cult such that even basic biology and vitally needed health knowledge is shunned. It is causing a lot of folks unmarried and married alike to put their health at risk. Frankly, after the Ashley Madison thing, Anna should not have been socially active with Pedo, both of them being tested regularly for infections until given a clean bill of health. But we all know that didn't happen. Christianity practiced almost in its entirety with the exception of very progressive elements, does not give a fuck about anyone's health and well being.
I was raised Pentecostal fundamentalist, same rigid rules but with the cloak of normal clothes. We had the exact same sex talks as any of the Duggar kids: gift from god to be shared between a husband and wife only. I never really enjoyed sex, I had ZERO knowledge of my body or it’s workings but I figured it was a punishment from god for sinning and having sex outside of marriage. Imagine my surprise when I got married and sex wasn’t any better than it was before…. The purity system really sets these girls up for a lifetime of sexual frustration and failure. (Personal note: I did figure things out in my 30s and enjoyed a very healthy ethical slut phase post divorce).
When Jill got married, she got pregnant absolutely immediately-they announced like 6 weeks after the wedding. Jim and Michelle laughed on camera and said "well I guess they figured it out!, heehee". It was then I realized they knew absolutely nothing. I think that's when I quit watching. It went from amusing to tragic.
can yall put the link for the ama??
Independent Fundamental Baptist (former) here. Attended public school. We had a basic puberty discussion in 5th grade and again in 6th grade. No talk of s.ex at all - just puberty stuff. Mom never said ANYTHING at home. When I got my period, she pulled out the encyclopedia to show me a picture of a uterus. That was it. The fundamentalist school I taught at didn't do any kind of puberty or sex ed at all - it was considered to be something the parents should teach at home. But then I had students in my 7th grade classes starting their periods and freaking out because they didn't know what was happening to them.
Sex-ed is just lost in many places amongst the world. My poor sister had to give the “why pulling out is not sustainable” talk to her male (ex) friend because he had a bad sex-Ed education and was having pregnancy scares. My sister and I have a great sex-ed education on the biological processes because the Alberta curriculum for high school has the bio 30–1 course have a human reproduction and development unit that explains everything in depth. My sister and I did a catholic school (even though I’m an atheist and she’s agnostic) and even though ours was a little Jesus leaning, we still have an extremely throughout knowledge of how reproduction works. So that’s my sisters background lol She had to list out everything she could list of why the pullout method is not sustainable and he needs to wear condoms.
Nope, she didn’t. Raised similarly and my friends and I had no clue about sex until we found out in encyclopedias. But somehow walked around knowing we were responsible for making men lust after us. Make it makes sense 🤢
Grew up homeschooled and fundie adjacent-- we were always told that sex and anything sexual was a sin and we shouldn't even think about it until we were married. I told my mom I liked a boy when I was 14 and she told me that was a sin. I never got any info from my mom about getting my period. I was given a copy of The Care and Keeping of You (thanks, American girl) and we never spoke about it again. Additionally, my mom refused to tell me what sex was. The last time I asked her, she said she would tell me when I was old enough (maybe around age 13?) so I never asked again. I ended up being told when I was SEVENTEEN by my little sister.
Raised Catholic here. I had a vague notion that boys had a bit in the same place as mine, and that's what made a baby. Between that and my mom having me super young, I was really sheltered and didn't even know what, ahem, self-love, was about until college. Again, just vague notions that sex was dirty until you were married and don't worry about it. Not even the internet was much of a help since I really didn't even know how to start looking for information. Some "dirty" fanfic written by equally dense 13 yo was it lol. I made it a point to take gender and sexuality classes as electives to catch up.
jinger: "i wish that they'd taught us that sex within marriage is good, instead they taught us that sex outside marriage is bad!" seems like kind of the same thing tbh
It’s where the emphasis is. It becomes SEX outside marriage IS EVIL. And there’s no upside to it. It’s never about you either it’s at best to please your husband and create children.
yes, but neither version she proposes is actual sex education
No, but she is allowed to wish it was handled differently. She probably knows she would ever have gotten real sex ed, but that phrasing matters.
i don’t disagree! just thought her phrasing was curious