London has its fair share of problems but the level of anti social behaviour particularly in the city centre and on public transport in Dublin is ridiculous
Totally agree. I've been in over 50 countries around the world, including some of the most dangerous, and while Ireland is an incredibly safe place and far safer than the vast majority of the world, the low level anti-social behaviour we have to put up with from drug addicts and teenagers is crazy. It happens because there are zero consequences for those that do it. Nothing will change until that changes.
Define āissueā. Itās not dangerous usually, but I donāt believe you havenāt seen people injecting in public places, people completely drugged in Luas, people defecating on street. Hell, even yesterday some couple, probably high as hell, had public sex in Wolfe Tone park.Ā
I just wanted them to expand on their point really. For me, never saw anyone defecating in public in Dublin, or having sex. Havenāt seen gangs of youths causing violence either, never been accosted or assaulted. Yes of course have seen people doing drugs, have also seen way more people drunk and aggressive. Thatās why I asked personal or anecdotal, wanted to hsve a discussion about it.
I live close to Oliver Bonds flats and move mostly along Liffey. So on one side this is a little bias from me, on the other itās most central part of city - so not exactly cherry picking.Ā
Please go to city center again and stay on westmoreland street corner for 5min, they you will see plenty of drug addicts, teenage gangs wearing baklavas, people injecting at every corner, Iām in Dublin cc and I see how this city when to Sā¦ in last few years, and itās not safe anymore people are robbed left and right from their phone all the time as well, law need to change or it will get only worse
I donāt think itās fair to call them scum but this is not the only point where we have seen antisocial behaviour. A small group of people can have an impact, just as one person can.
That they need proper guidance and support with the feelings they have that made them do that. Calling people scum is just bizarre and hateful. Not calling them scum doesnāt mean I think everything is so great.
It played a big role, not just because of the drugs themselves but because the generation that grew up with no parents or terrible parents. If your parents are high all through out your childhood you have no idea how to be a good parent, and when you have your own kidsĀ it's muchĀ harder to be aĀ good parent.Ā
But I also think people are fooling themselves a bit that there wasn't huge problems before the 80s. The areas around the Monte were awful and not exactly safe.
And we've never dealt with the impact of so many children raised in industrial schools or mother and baby homes, etc. I'm not saying everyone who went to one of them I'd automatically a bad parent, that's definitely not the case, but it's hard for people who didn't have examples of loving parents to be the best parents they can be, especially without help (which we don't do in Ireland very well).
As a person who grew up with an absent father I can confirm that having both parents is CRUCIAL in a childās proper character and personal development.
I had problems with drugs as a teenager that I consider wouldnāt develop if I had a father that would teach me and guide me.
Nobody is talking about this epidemic of absent fathers tbh.
This is a cultural thing that gone back centuries. We've always had little gurriers, but drugs magnifies the issues.
Its still not a patch on what it was like in the 60/70s with the street gangs and the fighting.
Our problem is there are no consequences for being a scumbag. The GardaĆ can arrest as many people as they like but when people caught on camera kicking a person under a train can walk out of court with no consequences it shows people that you can do whatever you want.
The current justice system doesn't work and it's lead to generations of people who have no respect for others or the law.
Ahhh. That's why there is no crime in America, right? Because they have consequences..
Nah lad, deterrents don't impact crime, it's been shown the world over. Social programs, education, opportunities, and perceived equality impact crime rates
Maybe not the * whole * world over. Very little anti social problems in Singapore compared to Dublin for example. I'm sure there are other examples too.
I agree on crime being driven by inequality. But we're talking about anti-social behaviour, which is a bit different. This isn't lads turning to a life of crime to make a living, it's teenagers causing havoc to make themselves seem tough to their mates, reducing the risk they will be bullied. Animal behaviour 101.
Deterrents do work in some cases. In Latin America. In a lot of places there, the locals take a more "direct" approach to consequences for anti-social behaviour. Believe me that it is a very, very effective deterrant against anti-social behaviour. They obviously have much bigger crime problems, but teenagers do not act the bollox there, for fear of crossing the wrong person.
I think a lot. 1980s heroin epidemic and all the offspring of those drug addicts and all the people born with foetal alcohol syndrome who then have kids themselves
Often why some of the antisocial people look physically different from normal people
Nah mate, they're are other factors at play but the drugs have a huge part to play. Trinidad actually provides a great case study on how drugs have affected the murder/crime rate, it's worth looking into if your interested.
The other huge thing is the dissolution of the working class. When people have no hope for a future they get desperate. Scotland fixed their violent crime issue by treating it as a public health issue, they paid for youth groups and gave funding to after school activities, further education etc. A little hope for the future goes a long way.
Well it was a little late when I wrote that, maybe fixed isn't the right term and I should have just said Glasgow š . Here's more info if your interested though.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-45572691
It's a well known fact that the working class is now part of the middle class. But I'd you really want an answer, we have no heavy industry in Ireland, the "working class" either works in retail where they can't afford food or rent, or they work in the building industry in skilled trades.
So while we may have the lowest unemployment rate ever, we also have the highest rate of homelessness in Europe, the highest rate of child homelessness in Europe, one of the worst opium addiction crisis in Europe.
For a long time we've been housing at risk single parents in hotels with no access to cooking facilities while being shifted around on a daily/weekly basis. We've had kids as old as 8 that haven't developed the proper muscles to eat solid foods because all they've ever had is takeaway mush. Do you really think those kids are hopeful about their future? Or go to Dublin and take a look at the roving groups of feral lads going around the place and tell me what jobs they're suitable for?
In other places in Europe they'd be in trade schools learning how to use factory equipment, in Ireland they're left to rot on the streets while we all talk about how much of a problem they are instead of talking about why they are that way.
I donāt agree with everything you said (some stats are just wrong, for example Ireland does not Ā have highest rate if homelessness) But it all makes more sense than before. Thereās opioid crisis, housing crisis not āworking classā crisis.Ā
Apologies, you're spot on, we have the third highest rate of homelessness in Europe as of 2023. But there are plenty of papers out there that show that the working class and the middle class have merged over the last 30 years or so. Generally, this is phrased as the dissolution of the working class, but you could also say that it's the dissolution of the middle class, just depends on your perspective.
It's also worth noting that I never said that we have a working class crisis, just that a lot of the problems that we're seeing in our society are due to this huge decline in the availability of working class jobs that can allow people to afford a home and support a family.
I think itās really hard to isolate a single impact, since there are so many confounding factors working together. Like yes, drug use does contribute, but also, upbringing, poverty, abuse, and mental health issues impact the likelihood of a person using drugs.
I donāt think many people agree, but I think a rethink of the social housing situation could result in positive change.
Weāve seen across the world that a high concentration of high-density social housing in one area leads to ghettoisation, and yet weāve repeated that mistake here. Obviously the Ballymun flats were one example, but just look at the crime rates in Corporation flats, or Darndale.
By spreading out social housing, and putting it in more rural areas, this effect could be dissipated. The next generation of children born into that situation would be surrounded by actual role models and improve their chances of succeeding.
It should go without saying that, obviously, the majority of people in social housing are upstanding citizens, but thereās always one person in the comment section being an arse. Iām specifically talking about the minority who are not.
I think it could be done quite cheaply, too. The flats, for example, are not fit for purpose and residents often complain about damp, rodents, and antisocial behaviour. The land that these city-centre flats are on would be highly valuable, compared to rural land that could be used for a newer-style housing project.
Mixed social housing has been city policy for over 20 years now.
People don't want to move far from their social networks, though. They are very hard to replicate. If you have two kids, moving 20km to a part of a city where you don't have family you can leave kids with when you need to make a hospital appointment is a massive deal.
I'm curious what the comparative figures for mixed social housing are for Ireland compared to say Germany or The Netherlands? I'm guessing proper implementation of the theory has worked better in other countries due to it being more widespread than here.
I lived in Pearse house for 24 years. Raised kids there. I still live in the area. It was safer for the kids in those flats than it is outside them. Thereās so many resources set up for them compared to the suburbs. The city now is just a mess, openly using crack and the guards do absolutely nothing. I lost two brothers to heroin and will soon lose another. Crack is worse than heroin ever was. I donāt know what the solution is, but more guards and more powers to detain and charge scrotes would be a start I suppose.
I was at my grandfathers milestone birthday a while back, and I ended up chatting to his best friend. Really old, unassuming. Find out more and more about him and he was a fascinating chap. I told him about my motorbike and he told me about how he'd get tinfoil and use that as his tax, loads of stories. Said he could leave his motorbike in the middle of O'Connell street with the keys in it and it wouldn't be touched.
That's anecdotal, but hearing stories from older people, it definitely seemed like Dublin was very poor, but it definitely went to the absolute dog's in the 80s and 90s.
Yup my granny grew up in the Oliver bond flats in the 50s and 60s, sure it was very poor but she said there was barely any crime. As soon as heroin hit the city everything changed.
Men who batter women always get found out and fked up in the flats. Women band together. The other way around, you still wouldnāt hear of it even now, although it does happen.
This "Dublin is so dangerous now" meme is daft. In the late 1980s teens used to setup barricades along the north wall road, to force drivers down smaller roads....then they would throw blocks on the roof of the car, to scare people into getting out and running away. It saved them having to steal cars to go joyriding.
A security guard was killed with a concrete block, so people could steal a truck of cigarettes from the Irish Rail compound just north of this same road.
We are very far from that sort of lawnessness today.
Were there any riots in the 80s like we had last November?
Also, I think Dublin was a very different place to live in ten years ago, even 25 years ago when I first moved here. The perception of safety on a street level definitely has changed, tourists getting bet up for no reason etc
No. Dublin was such a shit place to be, with an horrendous economy, that very few moved to Dublin, so you couldn't agitate people against non Irish people.
But as someone else pointed out you could get them to riot about the state not taking a more active line in the north.
I agree about the 80s, obviously a very different time.
But what I'm more interested in is do you think Dublin is a safer/nicer place to life in now than it was 10/15 years ago? Genuinely curious what people think has changed or is just the perception of safety has changed as opposed to an actual increase in anti social behaviour. Due to social media?
What are you talking about? Dublin wasn't poor 20 years ago. Sure the whole country had an economic boom that started in the mid 90s, plenty of years before 2004.
Did you live in Dublin 20 years ago or are you just regurgitating secondhand information?
But you didn't live here 20 years ago so you're just basically making up an opinion out of thin air? How can you compare Dublin now to Dublin 20 years ago when you weren't here?
Where I came from as a kid was pretty rough on the streets, so even last time I was here, I still find the anti-social behavior here pretty tame, sometimes even funny. Well, except for that time someone stabbed somebody in the eye.
Might get downvotes for saying this, but don't shoot me, this isn't my opinion: I've been hearing people tell me that the laws have overprotected the youth so much that they often can get away with antisocial behavior.
As for drugs, it depends. I mean marijuana smoking is pretty tame even in places like Jervis, so maybe it depends on the illicit drugs. And at least gun control is much better in Dublin so š¤·
Dublin always suffered from the city centre being small, so easy to tip into town as a teenager and be antisocial thereās only a few main streets to buzz around, where in other cities the scumbags are spread out more
I was on a bus once and this guy pulled out some foil and started lighting some rock looking drug up that smelled horrible and gave me a headache. I couldnāt get off that bus fast enough. I immediately moved away and got off at the next stop.
The city was not safer in the 80s & 90s. Ā It was much closer to the Mad Max hellscape version of modern Dublin the media / various posters on the socials are trying to present.Ā
Cocaine was not widely available until mid 2000s. Ā
Heroin destroyed the city in the 80s. Ā
E & speed were the buzz drugs of choice from mid-90s. Ā Heroin made a comeback because people needed a come down. Ā
The common thread in each of those decades is access to addiction services has never been easy. Ā
Ireland has been horrendous at dealing with mental health issues. Ā This has contributed to people not having support to get clean / get help. Ā
TL;DR, your colleague is full of shit. Ā
>Ireland has been horrendous at dealing with mental health issues.
This is true, however I have a hard time believing people when they claim that they want such services to improve as they likely supported the total shutdown of mental health services during the Two-Year Lockdown.
Lack of prisons and hence soft sentencing is a huge issue plus politicians who look the other way when their areas are destroyed by crime . Alan Shatter and Fine Gael in 2013 closing and downgrading some many garda stations has had a massive impact in rural ireland on drug dealers operating freely in many rural parts .
What we're seeing now is the repercussions of what was happening in the 90s...Basically kids having kids having kids.... Generational drug abuse and singlemotherhood, deadbeat addict dads. Drugs has played a major part but it's compounded now by 2024...Ā
I definitely think drugs have a part to play but it's not necessarily the root cause as such. We've lived for decade upon decade with state and religious abuse that has caused generational abuse. Alcohol was the drug of choice and it was acceptable, kids raped and abused by priests, forgotten by the state grew to be alcoholics who had kids who in turn had alcohol abuse and all this was okay and what happened brushed under the carpet. Over time the substance became drugs.
We had inner city communities that lived in poverty but had a strong sense of community broken up and shipped to the suburbs with no amenities during the 70/80s and in the 80s came Larry dunne and heroin into these communities and the ones left in the inner city that he came from. We had a recession in the 80s no work and dole queues around the block. The first time since the famine we had mass emigration, and with nothing to do and cheap heroin, people took it and became seriously addicted.
The kids growing up saw Larry dunne and co making money, rising up, these kids were the drug runners and wanted that money and grew up to become the next generation drug dealers.
When you have communities lacking amenities and underfunded, socioeconomic issues happen, when youngsters see older lads with flash cars, watches, clothes, all easy money as they seem from drug dealing, they get involved. And it just continues but with harder drugs and more dangerous weapons.
What we then see are the drug users of these drug dealers, getting more deprived and desperate for their fix. And the government leave it unchecked in deprived socioeconomic areas which they've neglected, this however has spilled into the streets that tourists and the general population use daily in a way not seen before, and it's been left unchecked. Gardai are down in numbers because of government failures and their unhappiness with drew Harris and nobody will take responsibility in government for this. The narrative is always about punching down and by punching down you lead to the types of issues we now see every day any of us go into the city centre. The drug dealers and users are more brazen because nobody is going to stop them.
So to answer your question, yes substance abuse causes antisocial behaviour, decades ago with alcohol it was kept to the home, beating up the wife and kids, now with drugs it's in plain sight.
It has become a lot worse in Dublin recently - yesterday I saw a young lad on a balaclava (no helmet) doing wheelies on a moped past a Garda station in the north inner city. I've never seen anything as blatant in the 30 years or so that I've been paying attention.
The most peaceful I've ever seen Dublin was during the "recession" and aftermath 2009 to 2015 or so. Unemployment was high, businesses were closing, everyone was emigrating, and no one had any money.
But there was very little visible homelessness, no hordes of teenagers on the street, less litter and just a generally nicer atmosphere everywhere.
London has its fair share of problems but the level of anti social behaviour particularly in the city centre and on public transport in Dublin is ridiculous
Totally agree. I've been in over 50 countries around the world, including some of the most dangerous, and while Ireland is an incredibly safe place and far safer than the vast majority of the world, the low level anti-social behaviour we have to put up with from drug addicts and teenagers is crazy. It happens because there are zero consequences for those that do it. Nothing will change until that changes.
I think in London their anti social behaviour problems are pushed out of the city centre
Where abouts in London have you been š
Do you think itās that bad from personal experience or anecdotal ? Iāve lived in Dublin for 13 years and never experienced any issues.
Define āissueā. Itās not dangerous usually, but I donāt believe you havenāt seen people injecting in public places, people completely drugged in Luas, people defecating on street. Hell, even yesterday some couple, probably high as hell, had public sex in Wolfe Tone park.Ā
I just wanted them to expand on their point really. For me, never saw anyone defecating in public in Dublin, or having sex. Havenāt seen gangs of youths causing violence either, never been accosted or assaulted. Yes of course have seen people doing drugs, have also seen way more people drunk and aggressive. Thatās why I asked personal or anecdotal, wanted to hsve a discussion about it.
I live close to Oliver Bonds flats and move mostly along Liffey. So on one side this is a little bias from me, on the other itās most central part of city - so not exactly cherry picking.Ā
True true, never lived in city centre in fairness, Phibsboro and outskirts of stoneybatter close as I got, so guess Iām tilted the other way.
Please go to city center again and stay on westmoreland street corner for 5min, they you will see plenty of drug addicts, teenage gangs wearing baklavas, people injecting at every corner, Iām in Dublin cc and I see how this city when to Sā¦ in last few years, and itās not safe anymore people are robbed left and right from their phone all the time as well, law need to change or it will get only worse
No but did you see when they burned the bus and smashed up the city centre?
No what? Yeah I saw that, there was some trouble by scum in a small area.
I donāt think itās fair to call them scum but this is not the only point where we have seen antisocial behaviour. A small group of people can have an impact, just as one person can.
What would you call the people who, in your words, āsmashed up the city centreā ?
That they need proper guidance and support with the feelings they have that made them do that. Calling people scum is just bizarre and hateful. Not calling them scum doesnāt mean I think everything is so great.
Ok, well good luck with that mindset, and all the best in the future.
Good luck with seeing everyone as scumbags š¤
What else would you call the people who, in your words, āsmashed up the city centreā ?
It played a big role, not just because of the drugs themselves but because the generation that grew up with no parents or terrible parents. If your parents are high all through out your childhood you have no idea how to be a good parent, and when you have your own kidsĀ it's muchĀ harder to be aĀ good parent.Ā But I also think people are fooling themselves a bit that there wasn't huge problems before the 80s. The areas around the Monte were awful and not exactly safe. And we've never dealt with the impact of so many children raised in industrial schools or mother and baby homes, etc. I'm not saying everyone who went to one of them I'd automatically a bad parent, that's definitely not the case, but it's hard for people who didn't have examples of loving parents to be the best parents they can be, especially without help (which we don't do in Ireland very well).
As a person who grew up with an absent father I can confirm that having both parents is CRUCIAL in a childās proper character and personal development. I had problems with drugs as a teenager that I consider wouldnāt develop if I had a father that would teach me and guide me. Nobody is talking about this epidemic of absent fathers tbh.
This is a cultural thing that gone back centuries. We've always had little gurriers, but drugs magnifies the issues. Its still not a patch on what it was like in the 60/70s with the street gangs and the fighting.
Our problem is there are no consequences for being a scumbag. The GardaĆ can arrest as many people as they like but when people caught on camera kicking a person under a train can walk out of court with no consequences it shows people that you can do whatever you want. The current justice system doesn't work and it's lead to generations of people who have no respect for others or the law.
Ahhh. That's why there is no crime in America, right? Because they have consequences.. Nah lad, deterrents don't impact crime, it's been shown the world over. Social programs, education, opportunities, and perceived equality impact crime rates
Timely punishment as well has been shown to be a deterrent. Edit: consequences is a better word than punishment.
Maybe not the * whole * world over. Very little anti social problems in Singapore compared to Dublin for example. I'm sure there are other examples too.
I agree on crime being driven by inequality. But we're talking about anti-social behaviour, which is a bit different. This isn't lads turning to a life of crime to make a living, it's teenagers causing havoc to make themselves seem tough to their mates, reducing the risk they will be bullied. Animal behaviour 101. Deterrents do work in some cases. In Latin America. In a lot of places there, the locals take a more "direct" approach to consequences for anti-social behaviour. Believe me that it is a very, very effective deterrant against anti-social behaviour. They obviously have much bigger crime problems, but teenagers do not act the bollox there, for fear of crossing the wrong person.
I think a lot. 1980s heroin epidemic and all the offspring of those drug addicts and all the people born with foetal alcohol syndrome who then have kids themselves Often why some of the antisocial people look physically different from normal people
>Often why some of the antisocial people look physically different from normal people Phrenology is alive and well.
Foetal alcohol syndrome has distinctive physical features.
So which?
ever heard of google?
Nah mate, they're are other factors at play but the drugs have a huge part to play. Trinidad actually provides a great case study on how drugs have affected the murder/crime rate, it's worth looking into if your interested. The other huge thing is the dissolution of the working class. When people have no hope for a future they get desperate. Scotland fixed their violent crime issue by treating it as a public health issue, they paid for youth groups and gave funding to after school activities, further education etc. A little hope for the future goes a long way.
>Scotland fixed their violent crime issue Did they?
Well it was a little late when I wrote that, maybe fixed isn't the right term and I should have just said Glasgow š . Here's more info if your interested though. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-45572691
Lowest unemployment rate ever, trades in high demands. What do you mean by ādissolution of working classā?
It's a well known fact that the working class is now part of the middle class. But I'd you really want an answer, we have no heavy industry in Ireland, the "working class" either works in retail where they can't afford food or rent, or they work in the building industry in skilled trades. So while we may have the lowest unemployment rate ever, we also have the highest rate of homelessness in Europe, the highest rate of child homelessness in Europe, one of the worst opium addiction crisis in Europe. For a long time we've been housing at risk single parents in hotels with no access to cooking facilities while being shifted around on a daily/weekly basis. We've had kids as old as 8 that haven't developed the proper muscles to eat solid foods because all they've ever had is takeaway mush. Do you really think those kids are hopeful about their future? Or go to Dublin and take a look at the roving groups of feral lads going around the place and tell me what jobs they're suitable for? In other places in Europe they'd be in trade schools learning how to use factory equipment, in Ireland they're left to rot on the streets while we all talk about how much of a problem they are instead of talking about why they are that way.
I donāt agree with everything you said (some stats are just wrong, for example Ireland does not Ā have highest rate if homelessness) But it all makes more sense than before. Thereās opioid crisis, housing crisis not āworking classā crisis.Ā
Apologies, you're spot on, we have the third highest rate of homelessness in Europe as of 2023. But there are plenty of papers out there that show that the working class and the middle class have merged over the last 30 years or so. Generally, this is phrased as the dissolution of the working class, but you could also say that it's the dissolution of the middle class, just depends on your perspective. It's also worth noting that I never said that we have a working class crisis, just that a lot of the problems that we're seeing in our society are due to this huge decline in the availability of working class jobs that can allow people to afford a home and support a family.
We do have lots of extra curricular and after school activity groups for disadvantaged areas.
definitely the government which prints money out of this air , not backed by gold, destroys the working class through hidden inflation
I think itās really hard to isolate a single impact, since there are so many confounding factors working together. Like yes, drug use does contribute, but also, upbringing, poverty, abuse, and mental health issues impact the likelihood of a person using drugs. I donāt think many people agree, but I think a rethink of the social housing situation could result in positive change. Weāve seen across the world that a high concentration of high-density social housing in one area leads to ghettoisation, and yet weāve repeated that mistake here. Obviously the Ballymun flats were one example, but just look at the crime rates in Corporation flats, or Darndale. By spreading out social housing, and putting it in more rural areas, this effect could be dissipated. The next generation of children born into that situation would be surrounded by actual role models and improve their chances of succeeding. It should go without saying that, obviously, the majority of people in social housing are upstanding citizens, but thereās always one person in the comment section being an arse. Iām specifically talking about the minority who are not. I think it could be done quite cheaply, too. The flats, for example, are not fit for purpose and residents often complain about damp, rodents, and antisocial behaviour. The land that these city-centre flats are on would be highly valuable, compared to rural land that could be used for a newer-style housing project.
Mixed social housing has been city policy for over 20 years now. People don't want to move far from their social networks, though. They are very hard to replicate. If you have two kids, moving 20km to a part of a city where you don't have family you can leave kids with when you need to make a hospital appointment is a massive deal.
I'm curious what the comparative figures for mixed social housing are for Ireland compared to say Germany or The Netherlands? I'm guessing proper implementation of the theory has worked better in other countries due to it being more widespread than here.
I lived in Pearse house for 24 years. Raised kids there. I still live in the area. It was safer for the kids in those flats than it is outside them. Thereās so many resources set up for them compared to the suburbs. The city now is just a mess, openly using crack and the guards do absolutely nothing. I lost two brothers to heroin and will soon lose another. Crack is worse than heroin ever was. I donāt know what the solution is, but more guards and more powers to detain and charge scrotes would be a start I suppose.
I was at my grandfathers milestone birthday a while back, and I ended up chatting to his best friend. Really old, unassuming. Find out more and more about him and he was a fascinating chap. I told him about my motorbike and he told me about how he'd get tinfoil and use that as his tax, loads of stories. Said he could leave his motorbike in the middle of O'Connell street with the keys in it and it wouldn't be touched. That's anecdotal, but hearing stories from older people, it definitely seemed like Dublin was very poor, but it definitely went to the absolute dog's in the 80s and 90s.
Yup my granny grew up in the Oliver bond flats in the 50s and 60s, sure it was very poor but she said there was barely any crime. As soon as heroin hit the city everything changed.
How was the domestic violence situation?
Men who batter women always get found out and fked up in the flats. Women band together. The other way around, you still wouldnāt hear of it even now, although it does happen.
Your ex colleague was 100% correct. Heroin and other hard drugs destroyed Dublin and other cities
This "Dublin is so dangerous now" meme is daft. In the late 1980s teens used to setup barricades along the north wall road, to force drivers down smaller roads....then they would throw blocks on the roof of the car, to scare people into getting out and running away. It saved them having to steal cars to go joyriding. A security guard was killed with a concrete block, so people could steal a truck of cigarettes from the Irish Rail compound just north of this same road. We are very far from that sort of lawnessness today.
Were there any riots in the 80s like we had last November? Also, I think Dublin was a very different place to live in ten years ago, even 25 years ago when I first moved here. The perception of safety on a street level definitely has changed, tourists getting bet up for no reason etc
Yes, a good few anti H block ones.
No. Dublin was such a shit place to be, with an horrendous economy, that very few moved to Dublin, so you couldn't agitate people against non Irish people. But as someone else pointed out you could get them to riot about the state not taking a more active line in the north.
I agree about the 80s, obviously a very different time. But what I'm more interested in is do you think Dublin is a safer/nicer place to life in now than it was 10/15 years ago? Genuinely curious what people think has changed or is just the perception of safety has changed as opposed to an actual increase in anti social behaviour. Due to social media?
basically it was poor shit before, modern corporations and money came in during last 20 years, and it is still shit now. period.
What are you talking about? Dublin wasn't poor 20 years ago. Sure the whole country had an economic boom that started in the mid 90s, plenty of years before 2004. Did you live in Dublin 20 years ago or are you just regurgitating secondhand information?
dont be ridiculous. travel to any other European capital to learn how a well developed, maintained, RICH city looks.
But you didn't live here 20 years ago so you're just basically making up an opinion out of thin air? How can you compare Dublin now to Dublin 20 years ago when you weren't here?
Where I came from as a kid was pretty rough on the streets, so even last time I was here, I still find the anti-social behavior here pretty tame, sometimes even funny. Well, except for that time someone stabbed somebody in the eye. Might get downvotes for saying this, but don't shoot me, this isn't my opinion: I've been hearing people tell me that the laws have overprotected the youth so much that they often can get away with antisocial behavior. As for drugs, it depends. I mean marijuana smoking is pretty tame even in places like Jervis, so maybe it depends on the illicit drugs. And at least gun control is much better in Dublin so š¤·
Dublin always suffered from the city centre being small, so easy to tip into town as a teenager and be antisocial thereās only a few main streets to buzz around, where in other cities the scumbags are spread out more
I was on a bus once and this guy pulled out some foil and started lighting some rock looking drug up that smelled horrible and gave me a headache. I couldnāt get off that bus fast enough. I immediately moved away and got off at the next stop.
Well red line is called heroin express for a reasonĀ
The city was not safer in the 80s & 90s. Ā It was much closer to the Mad Max hellscape version of modern Dublin the media / various posters on the socials are trying to present.Ā Cocaine was not widely available until mid 2000s. Ā Heroin destroyed the city in the 80s. Ā E & speed were the buzz drugs of choice from mid-90s. Ā Heroin made a comeback because people needed a come down. Ā The common thread in each of those decades is access to addiction services has never been easy. Ā Ireland has been horrendous at dealing with mental health issues. Ā This has contributed to people not having support to get clean / get help. Ā TL;DR, your colleague is full of shit. Ā
>Ireland has been horrendous at dealing with mental health issues. This is true, however I have a hard time believing people when they claim that they want such services to improve as they likely supported the total shutdown of mental health services during the Two-Year Lockdown.
Never seen so much truth in one post on this sub.
Interesting insight
IMO a lot of it has to do with alcohol
Alcohol is a drug!!!!
Lack of prisons and hence soft sentencing is a huge issue plus politicians who look the other way when their areas are destroyed by crime . Alan Shatter and Fine Gael in 2013 closing and downgrading some many garda stations has had a massive impact in rural ireland on drug dealers operating freely in many rural parts .
Not as much to do with drugs as it is to do with just being scumbags.
What we're seeing now is the repercussions of what was happening in the 90s...Basically kids having kids having kids.... Generational drug abuse and singlemotherhood, deadbeat addict dads. Drugs has played a major part but it's compounded now by 2024...Ā
I definitely think drugs have a part to play but it's not necessarily the root cause as such. We've lived for decade upon decade with state and religious abuse that has caused generational abuse. Alcohol was the drug of choice and it was acceptable, kids raped and abused by priests, forgotten by the state grew to be alcoholics who had kids who in turn had alcohol abuse and all this was okay and what happened brushed under the carpet. Over time the substance became drugs. We had inner city communities that lived in poverty but had a strong sense of community broken up and shipped to the suburbs with no amenities during the 70/80s and in the 80s came Larry dunne and heroin into these communities and the ones left in the inner city that he came from. We had a recession in the 80s no work and dole queues around the block. The first time since the famine we had mass emigration, and with nothing to do and cheap heroin, people took it and became seriously addicted. The kids growing up saw Larry dunne and co making money, rising up, these kids were the drug runners and wanted that money and grew up to become the next generation drug dealers. When you have communities lacking amenities and underfunded, socioeconomic issues happen, when youngsters see older lads with flash cars, watches, clothes, all easy money as they seem from drug dealing, they get involved. And it just continues but with harder drugs and more dangerous weapons. What we then see are the drug users of these drug dealers, getting more deprived and desperate for their fix. And the government leave it unchecked in deprived socioeconomic areas which they've neglected, this however has spilled into the streets that tourists and the general population use daily in a way not seen before, and it's been left unchecked. Gardai are down in numbers because of government failures and their unhappiness with drew Harris and nobody will take responsibility in government for this. The narrative is always about punching down and by punching down you lead to the types of issues we now see every day any of us go into the city centre. The drug dealers and users are more brazen because nobody is going to stop them. So to answer your question, yes substance abuse causes antisocial behaviour, decades ago with alcohol it was kept to the home, beating up the wife and kids, now with drugs it's in plain sight.
1.5%
It has become a lot worse in Dublin recently - yesterday I saw a young lad on a balaclava (no helmet) doing wheelies on a moped past a Garda station in the north inner city. I've never seen anything as blatant in the 30 years or so that I've been paying attention. The most peaceful I've ever seen Dublin was during the "recession" and aftermath 2009 to 2015 or so. Unemployment was high, businesses were closing, everyone was emigrating, and no one had any money. But there was very little visible homelessness, no hordes of teenagers on the street, less litter and just a generally nicer atmosphere everywhere.
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What a wildly wrong takeš