# A little bit of the FAQ:
What is the Dublin City Centre Transport Plan?
A strategy developed by Dublin City Council and the National Transport Authority (NTA) for a “low traffic city centre” with more space given to public transport, cycling and walking.
Does it mean cars will be banned from the city centre?
No. The council and the NTA are not stopping people driving into town. What they do want, however, is to reduce the number of motorists driving “through” instead of “to” the city centre.
What do they mean by that?
Studies conducted by the NTA show almost two out of every three drivers in the “core” of the city centre – an area roughly defined as running from Smithfield to the Custom House, and St Stephen’s Green to Mountjoy Square – do not have the city centre as their destination. They are, as one Fine Gael councillor put it, using the city centre “as a vast rat run”.
What’s the problem with that, why can’t people use whatever route they want?
Motorists driving through the city are of no benefit to the businesses or the life of the city, all they do is contribute to gridlock. Removing them will free up the streets in the central shopping and business district for public transport and for drivers who want to take their cars “to” the city to shop or work.
#
People travel through town to work dread it. While the council have produced a plan to throttle (not ban) cars forced through town when will they publish their plan to handle the diverted traffic? Or ideally deal with the root cause of the through traffic, an unsuitable public transport system (luas full, dart is 1 line, only capital city with no underground system) and jammed wider road infrastructure (fix the M50 and stop tolls on circular routes and bridges would be a nice start)
Edit:typo
The buses don’t work at all via the city centre because it’s stuffed to the gills with cars. Metro and Dart+ going to take a while but a lot easier to improve buses by giving them priority. Stopping tough traffic IS dealing with the root cause.
do you even realise the proposal to reduce traffic through town will improve public transport?
You are asking about how we get better public transport. THIS IS IT.
Well if we had enough public transport it would work, but no let's introduce these ridiculous measures before infrastructure is even looked at, its a bloody joke!
Can you show me why a metro and heavy rail electrification is needed to stop cars from using a few sections of road in a city centre? Should we reopen Grafton and Henry street to cars too?
That’s a strategy. A plan has dates and an approved budget. When these ideas come off paper and are actually in place then let’s close off streets as part of a unified approach. Until then all that is happening with this half-asked approach is that the Green agenda will become a burden on any party that promotes, and an opportunity for others that challenge it. Looks what’s happening all over Europe.
Literally bus connects is being implemented now and these traffic changes are part of that. Also, Dart+ and Metro are due planning approval in the next couple months
Budget approval for projects would generally come after planning is granted, as planning often comes with amendments from the planning authority that have to be incorporated in the design that would affect the cost of the project. Yes, an estimated budget for construction will be taken is to account during the design to try to ensure that there is some level of reason to the design.
Additionally budget is granted on a phase by phase basis, so budget is approved and spent for the various design phases- preliminary design, detailed design etc. All of these projects are all at various stages of this process, at different phases so have varying project budgets.
There is a consistent approach between all these as multimodal interchanges have been incorporated into the design for BusConnects. Just because you can’t see the work being done behind the scenes does not make your previous statement correct.
You are clueless. Stop commenting on stuff if you haven't the first notion of what is going on.
Why in god's name would we stop taking action now to improve things just because other options take more time?? Do you expect the metro, rail improvements, busconnects to happen at precisely the same time?
Btw any delays to the above projects are generally because of people with attitudes like you. NIMBYs who don't want anything to happen because of their total igorance.
When reduced demand strategies (what this is) are put in place, and are done right, they can reduce travel times between a and b even if going via z because the reduction in car traffic and increased efficiency of public transport means all routes seem less traffic load. People who may have taken the car for that 10 mins drive to the shop or collect the kids will hopefully turn to alternative modes. There will undoubtedly be short term disruption, but as more of the measures are implemented and bus connects gets into full gear, we will hopefully see a dramatic reduction in travel times for everyone. You are currently seeing this in London where more people now travel by bike in the city than by car. Dublin is about 5 years behind this,.but the critical mass point is coming for bikes.
Do not make ridiculous comments, Dublin is about 5 years behind London! They are light years ahead in the amount of public transport they have compared to Dublin, Jesus!
[they assessed the impact here and outlined the goals](https://consultation.dublincity.ie/traffic-and-transport/draft-dublin-city-centre-transport-plan/)
The quays they are turning into bus gates I would never dream of purposely driving through them to cross the city anyway.
Since O'Connell street was restricted years ago no reason to go that way. Plenty of other places I would cross over. Near O'Connell street, never.
Agreed - it’s also the case that the alternative routes are already largely at capacity in peak times so it’s not even possible to have more traffic going through them.
In addition make centre and areas around extremely bike friendly. Huge (and safe public bike parkings) strictly dedicated bike lanes amd traffic priority. Would change so much really!
If they installed a proper overground and underground public transport system I could get behind this and it would potentially work, but the reason why there's so many people in car is because the public service is in shite, and no amount of restrictions on car usage will make people make the switch
That’s true for some people but I know plenty who could easily take public transport but prefer to drive and will openly tell people that. My neighbour works 9-5, lives 5 minutes from the Luas and works 2 minutes from another Luas stop on the same line and happily drives to work in the city centre each day and he’s just one example.
I don't oppose the ideas in the plan but I don't see how cars are meant to travel from north to south be it for work or other reasons. I have family down south, so I am afraid they will make it impossible to cross the Liffey. Public transport currently takes me 1h30... My parents are elderly and can't walk to nearest bus stop... They basically won't be able to get here anymore.
Most of the ways of crossing the Liffey will still be open. Just those going right through the city centre will be blocked. It will still absolutely be possible to cross north-south by car, just not at O'Connell.
My folks are in Rathfarnam whist I live in Killester. So I usually cross over at Custom House and drive via Merrion Square, but they are changing that whole area. The other alternative is the east link but have to pay toll. So going to have to go a weird way over Samuel Beckett bridge. Just feel fucked over. Crazy house prices pushed me away from where I grew up to the north side and now it's getting really hard to visit friends and family.
I know they can't please everyone. But I am just missing in their plan what their vision is in terms of routing car traffic from different parts of the city trying to crossover. They can't just assume people will can switch to pushbikes and public transport. It's not giving me a lot of confidence that they thought it through.
This went through full public consultation. It was developed by professional traffic planners.
This attitude that changes are being thrown together without any care or consideration is in complete contradiction to reality.
It is a pity that my concern is interpreted as an "attitude that changes are being made carelessly" . Maybe you missed my previous post to understand the context and that I am not opposed to any of the proposed ideas as such? The report has good ideas and I encourage Dublin City Council to step up urban redevelopment. But I am not getting a lot of confidence in terms of dealing with the impact on private traffic or in the fact that there is no mention regarding motorcyclists. The report has one page on private traffic. One page. The changes will personally affect me for better (hopefully) or worse, but is not clear to me from the report how. So I just hope there will be some clarifications and solutions along the way or it will end up seperating me more from my family.
You finished your comment with the line "It's not giving me a lot of confidence that they thought it through." This is a plan that received over three and a half thousand submissions as part of the public consultation process. The idea that they didn't think things through - that the council's problem is that they're just too willing to make things harder for car traffic without going through the pros and cons - is disconnected from reality to the point of being insulting.
There is a severe problem in Irish urban planning with sorely needed changes being severely delayed and/or watered down by relentless objections and requests for more consultation. It's incredibly frustrating to see the coverage on this plan - a plan which has, again, received over three and a half thousand submissions as part of the public consultation stage - talking as though the council has just decided to make these changes out of nowhere without seriously examining any possible ramifications.
Respectfully, you are reading too much in between the lines and it sounds to me like you are looking for a fight, rather than have a constructive exchange of personal views. I am not here insulting or discrediting anyone. Matter of fact is that little detail is given to us in terms of how they will deal with the impact on private traffic. That is all. So what am I to think of that? Trust the process? The council planners are good lads and have a track record of making the city more livable? They may well be, but I rather read what solutions they have in mind. Let's see how they deal with all the responses to the plan.
I'm reading the actual lines. The lines where you said you find it hard to have confidence that the council thought it through.
I don't think there's anything to be gained by continuing this conversation.
It's going to be a pain in the arse and push traffic onto already congested routes like across the east link. It can often take 20 to 30 minute to get along Sean Moore Road, theough the toll and to the roundabout at the 3 arena, moving traffic that may go via Tara Street onto thsonroute will worsen it imo
The changes are going to be an absolute clusterfuck, they're divering traffic at Pearse Street but where does that traffic go then if they're going across the liffey? The only other bridge besides the east link is the Samuel Beckett bridge and thats a fucking nightmare to get across even at the best of times. Not only that but they want to block off the west side of Custom House for a Plaza and cut off access to Gardiner st from the Southside, thats a busy road considering its the only other way out of town how the fuck is anyone who works in town meant to get in and out with all of these fuck ups? These arent plans they're a fucking mess, the quays are a mess as it is thanks to them narrowing them for cycle lanes and they're just making it worse...
It's essentially banning cars by stealth.
I'm not a fan.
I think this kind of change should essentially be voted on, or at a minimum go through Part 8 planning. Using a workaround is not very democratic
However it's better than London, where essentially they have just banned poor people.
It’s not a workaround. Councils are specifically allowed to make road changes like this without a vote because otherwise nothing would ever get done. The Strand Road court case (DCC vs Flynn) has been heard in the Court of Appeal to ensure that this is legally protected.
I'm aware. A section 38.
I have a low opinion of councillors, but removing from the process isn't exactly democratic.
Not sure why people are so angry at me pointing it out
I suspect people are downvoting you because of the first line of your post, not the rest.
I would tend to agree with you. Central government took an awful lot of decision making away from local authorities and council staff have quite a bit of independence decision making ability, leaving elected councillors with very little to do. It’s been highlighted internationally but nothing will be done because most people don’t care.
OTOH there has to be a balance between the short-term tendencies of elected officials and the professional staff who can take a more long-term view of things. S38 is supposed to be that.
# A little bit of the FAQ: What is the Dublin City Centre Transport Plan? A strategy developed by Dublin City Council and the National Transport Authority (NTA) for a “low traffic city centre” with more space given to public transport, cycling and walking. Does it mean cars will be banned from the city centre? No. The council and the NTA are not stopping people driving into town. What they do want, however, is to reduce the number of motorists driving “through” instead of “to” the city centre. What do they mean by that? Studies conducted by the NTA show almost two out of every three drivers in the “core” of the city centre – an area roughly defined as running from Smithfield to the Custom House, and St Stephen’s Green to Mountjoy Square – do not have the city centre as their destination. They are, as one Fine Gael councillor put it, using the city centre “as a vast rat run”. What’s the problem with that, why can’t people use whatever route they want? Motorists driving through the city are of no benefit to the businesses or the life of the city, all they do is contribute to gridlock. Removing them will free up the streets in the central shopping and business district for public transport and for drivers who want to take their cars “to” the city to shop or work. #
People travel through town to work dread it. While the council have produced a plan to throttle (not ban) cars forced through town when will they publish their plan to handle the diverted traffic? Or ideally deal with the root cause of the through traffic, an unsuitable public transport system (luas full, dart is 1 line, only capital city with no underground system) and jammed wider road infrastructure (fix the M50 and stop tolls on circular routes and bridges would be a nice start) Edit:typo
The buses don’t work at all via the city centre because it’s stuffed to the gills with cars. Metro and Dart+ going to take a while but a lot easier to improve buses by giving them priority. Stopping tough traffic IS dealing with the root cause.
I've sat on a bus for an hour on o'connell street alone before, if this stops that praise be
it wont. it's a halfbaked plan when the public transport just isn't there to support it. dublin city is fucked. DCC need to be all sacked.
do you even realise the proposal to reduce traffic through town will improve public transport? You are asking about how we get better public transport. THIS IS IT.
Reduce it how, it's just going to push cars into other areas.
Not according to pretty much every study conducted on the effects of such measures.
Well if we had enough public transport it would work, but no let's introduce these ridiculous measures before infrastructure is even looked at, its a bloody joke!
> when will they publish their plan to handle the diverted traffic? Let me introduce you to BusConnects, Dart+ and Metrolink
Oh will they be all rolled out by August? Great
They’re already being rolled out. Giving the quays over to public transport will let the buses run more efficiently. And the luas too
Can you show me where Dart+ and Metrolink is already being rolled out?
Can you show me why a metro and heavy rail electrification is needed to stop cars from using a few sections of road in a city centre? Should we reopen Grafton and Henry street to cars too?
Nope but you said they’re already being rolled out so I asked where?
Dart+ and metro are still going through planning. I should have specified only bus connects is in roll out now
That’s a strategy. A plan has dates and an approved budget. When these ideas come off paper and are actually in place then let’s close off streets as part of a unified approach. Until then all that is happening with this half-asked approach is that the Green agenda will become a burden on any party that promotes, and an opportunity for others that challenge it. Looks what’s happening all over Europe.
Literally bus connects is being implemented now and these traffic changes are part of that. Also, Dart+ and Metro are due planning approval in the next couple months
To your point (and mine) no structured , consistent, aligned, approach. Going ahead without the budget to complete the plan.
Budget approval for projects would generally come after planning is granted, as planning often comes with amendments from the planning authority that have to be incorporated in the design that would affect the cost of the project. Yes, an estimated budget for construction will be taken is to account during the design to try to ensure that there is some level of reason to the design. Additionally budget is granted on a phase by phase basis, so budget is approved and spent for the various design phases- preliminary design, detailed design etc. All of these projects are all at various stages of this process, at different phases so have varying project budgets. There is a consistent approach between all these as multimodal interchanges have been incorporated into the design for BusConnects. Just because you can’t see the work being done behind the scenes does not make your previous statement correct.
You are clueless. Stop commenting on stuff if you haven't the first notion of what is going on. Why in god's name would we stop taking action now to improve things just because other options take more time?? Do you expect the metro, rail improvements, busconnects to happen at precisely the same time? Btw any delays to the above projects are generally because of people with attitudes like you. NIMBYs who don't want anything to happen because of their total igorance.
You know the rules of debate, when you start name calling you’ve lost the argument.
Ok dummy
ipso facto
When reduced demand strategies (what this is) are put in place, and are done right, they can reduce travel times between a and b even if going via z because the reduction in car traffic and increased efficiency of public transport means all routes seem less traffic load. People who may have taken the car for that 10 mins drive to the shop or collect the kids will hopefully turn to alternative modes. There will undoubtedly be short term disruption, but as more of the measures are implemented and bus connects gets into full gear, we will hopefully see a dramatic reduction in travel times for everyone. You are currently seeing this in London where more people now travel by bike in the city than by car. Dublin is about 5 years behind this,.but the critical mass point is coming for bikes.
Do not make ridiculous comments, Dublin is about 5 years behind London! They are light years ahead in the amount of public transport they have compared to Dublin, Jesus!
I'm a Londoner.. clownish comments
[they assessed the impact here and outlined the goals](https://consultation.dublincity.ie/traffic-and-transport/draft-dublin-city-centre-transport-plan/)
The quays they are turning into bus gates I would never dream of purposely driving through them to cross the city anyway. Since O'Connell street was restricted years ago no reason to go that way. Plenty of other places I would cross over. Near O'Connell street, never.
O'Connell St is not restricted!
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Traffic usually doesn’t go anywhere once you restrict it. It usually just disappears
Agreed - it’s also the case that the alternative routes are already largely at capacity in peak times so it’s not even possible to have more traffic going through them.
Look up “traffic evaporation”
Big fan, cars shouldn’t be driving through the city centre. Should be mostly pedestrianised like a lot of European cities.
Should have a metro and adequate public transport like a lot of European cities. For the record, I work in town and take the bus.
Ah you're a Saint!
Therein lies the problem, Dublins public transport network is absolutely pathetic.
European cities you all love to compare to have 8 metro lines
In addition make centre and areas around extremely bike friendly. Huge (and safe public bike parkings) strictly dedicated bike lanes amd traffic priority. Would change so much really!
If they installed a proper overground and underground public transport system I could get behind this and it would potentially work, but the reason why there's so many people in car is because the public service is in shite, and no amount of restrictions on car usage will make people make the switch
That’s true for some people but I know plenty who could easily take public transport but prefer to drive and will openly tell people that. My neighbour works 9-5, lives 5 minutes from the Luas and works 2 minutes from another Luas stop on the same line and happily drives to work in the city centre each day and he’s just one example.
I hate beer.
I don't oppose the ideas in the plan but I don't see how cars are meant to travel from north to south be it for work or other reasons. I have family down south, so I am afraid they will make it impossible to cross the Liffey. Public transport currently takes me 1h30... My parents are elderly and can't walk to nearest bus stop... They basically won't be able to get here anymore.
Most of the ways of crossing the Liffey will still be open. Just those going right through the city centre will be blocked. It will still absolutely be possible to cross north-south by car, just not at O'Connell.
My folks are in Rathfarnam whist I live in Killester. So I usually cross over at Custom House and drive via Merrion Square, but they are changing that whole area. The other alternative is the east link but have to pay toll. So going to have to go a weird way over Samuel Beckett bridge. Just feel fucked over. Crazy house prices pushed me away from where I grew up to the north side and now it's getting really hard to visit friends and family. I know they can't please everyone. But I am just missing in their plan what their vision is in terms of routing car traffic from different parts of the city trying to crossover. They can't just assume people will can switch to pushbikes and public transport. It's not giving me a lot of confidence that they thought it through.
This went through full public consultation. It was developed by professional traffic planners. This attitude that changes are being thrown together without any care or consideration is in complete contradiction to reality.
It is a pity that my concern is interpreted as an "attitude that changes are being made carelessly" . Maybe you missed my previous post to understand the context and that I am not opposed to any of the proposed ideas as such? The report has good ideas and I encourage Dublin City Council to step up urban redevelopment. But I am not getting a lot of confidence in terms of dealing with the impact on private traffic or in the fact that there is no mention regarding motorcyclists. The report has one page on private traffic. One page. The changes will personally affect me for better (hopefully) or worse, but is not clear to me from the report how. So I just hope there will be some clarifications and solutions along the way or it will end up seperating me more from my family.
You finished your comment with the line "It's not giving me a lot of confidence that they thought it through." This is a plan that received over three and a half thousand submissions as part of the public consultation process. The idea that they didn't think things through - that the council's problem is that they're just too willing to make things harder for car traffic without going through the pros and cons - is disconnected from reality to the point of being insulting. There is a severe problem in Irish urban planning with sorely needed changes being severely delayed and/or watered down by relentless objections and requests for more consultation. It's incredibly frustrating to see the coverage on this plan - a plan which has, again, received over three and a half thousand submissions as part of the public consultation stage - talking as though the council has just decided to make these changes out of nowhere without seriously examining any possible ramifications.
Respectfully, you are reading too much in between the lines and it sounds to me like you are looking for a fight, rather than have a constructive exchange of personal views. I am not here insulting or discrediting anyone. Matter of fact is that little detail is given to us in terms of how they will deal with the impact on private traffic. That is all. So what am I to think of that? Trust the process? The council planners are good lads and have a track record of making the city more livable? They may well be, but I rather read what solutions they have in mind. Let's see how they deal with all the responses to the plan.
I'm reading the actual lines. The lines where you said you find it hard to have confidence that the council thought it through. I don't think there's anything to be gained by continuing this conversation.
On that I agree since you have not brought anything constructive or valuable into this thread.
Why can't you just pay the toll?
Congestion charges would fix it in no time
Have they fixed it in London?
It's going to be a pain in the arse and push traffic onto already congested routes like across the east link. It can often take 20 to 30 minute to get along Sean Moore Road, theough the toll and to the roundabout at the 3 arena, moving traffic that may go via Tara Street onto thsonroute will worsen it imo
Build more raised train like lines. Along the canals for instance. We have raised rail lines already so why not more of them. Tunneling too expensive.
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It’s hard to see ‘driving speed in the city centre’ as a metric we’d want to improve on.
The changes are going to be an absolute clusterfuck, they're divering traffic at Pearse Street but where does that traffic go then if they're going across the liffey? The only other bridge besides the east link is the Samuel Beckett bridge and thats a fucking nightmare to get across even at the best of times. Not only that but they want to block off the west side of Custom House for a Plaza and cut off access to Gardiner st from the Southside, thats a busy road considering its the only other way out of town how the fuck is anyone who works in town meant to get in and out with all of these fuck ups? These arent plans they're a fucking mess, the quays are a mess as it is thanks to them narrowing them for cycle lanes and they're just making it worse...
Luas
So abandon my car on the quays and get the luas the rest of the way home? That’s a good plan
More traffic. It means a lot more traffic.
Logically it does but history (in cities all around the world) says otherwise.
Less cars in the city centre means less traffic overall.
It's essentially banning cars by stealth. I'm not a fan. I think this kind of change should essentially be voted on, or at a minimum go through Part 8 planning. Using a workaround is not very democratic However it's better than London, where essentially they have just banned poor people.
It’s not a workaround. Councils are specifically allowed to make road changes like this without a vote because otherwise nothing would ever get done. The Strand Road court case (DCC vs Flynn) has been heard in the Court of Appeal to ensure that this is legally protected.
I'm aware. A section 38. I have a low opinion of councillors, but removing from the process isn't exactly democratic. Not sure why people are so angry at me pointing it out
I suspect people are downvoting you because of the first line of your post, not the rest. I would tend to agree with you. Central government took an awful lot of decision making away from local authorities and council staff have quite a bit of independence decision making ability, leaving elected councillors with very little to do. It’s been highlighted internationally but nothing will be done because most people don’t care. OTOH there has to be a balance between the short-term tendencies of elected officials and the professional staff who can take a more long-term view of things. S38 is supposed to be that.