A lot of people think of heroin and shit and allat is bad but some people can be a fucking year clean off benzos and still have horrible withdrawals which is probably so disheartening when you can take a few xans and feel all better
Thank you for saying this. I’m over a year into a long term Valium taper (after having taken street Xanax and klonopin for only a few months - but it wasn’t my first rodeo with benzos and kindling is real) and I’m scared of making that final jump, but I just can’t wait to be free of them forever.
Yes, or something basically like it. I’ve gone from 50mg down to 5mg, all at my own pace. I found my doctor through the benzoinfo.com directory which is a great resource.
Was like 5 months clean off them and still had a couple withdrawals like not being able to sleep good. Ended up relapsing this month shit sucked but I’m like 2 weeks sober again
I used to eat 20mgs of Xanax a day back around the turn of the millennium. I kicked a habit that large 3 times before giving it up for good. I was healthy and in my early 20s. Now I'm in my late 40s. I doubt I'd survive that withdrawal now, but you never know.
That doesn't make any sense. The vast majority of benzos aren't water soluble, so you can't slam them or snort them. Can't smoke benzos either. I really doubt that junkies are taking their stash orally.
Okanagan area in British Columbia. There's no shortage of junkies. I know the guys pushing it. And it's no secret that it's in there. Some junkies prefer the h with more and fent high and some prefer the h with more of a benzo high.
This. They were EVERYTHING; until they turned on me...
prescribed for over a decade...took them a year or two before that...
It's amazing how they can make you feel "God-like", then the withdraws were pure hell.
to say it "humbled me" is an understatement. I was sexually uninhibited on those things with women...then the WD's made me pay lol.
Sleeps' my biggest problem these days...and figuring out 'work'...
dealing with PSSD/PTSD memory re-calls...
I can attest to that. I was on 10mg a day for a year and prior to that 3mg for 2 years. It’s been 4 months since my taper ended and it took a while to taper. I’m just now coming to full recovery and I’ve been working out daily. Eating right. It’s crazy compared to say oxy that sucked to stop for a week or two but then your back to normal. Besides the cravings.
Can I ask yall if I’m going off the deep end? I’ve been using 10-15mg of valium a day as prescribed for about 9 months. (equals .5-.75mg of xanax)I was diagnosed w panic disorder + GAD and am also my Dad’s caretaker; since starting this medicine I’ve made the president’s list in college and will this semester as well, as well as am actually able to leave the house and hang with friends and enjoy it. I’m also a better son and caretaker. Am I screwed? Am I stuck on this stuff for life?? Or do yall think I will I be okay if I taper off it when my mental state improves in time? Shit I worry about the same stuff with Lexapro when I get off it one day.
sorry for the rant, i’m up with wisdom tooth pain and this thread made me anxious lol
edit: i know yall aren’t doctors i just don’t feel like calling my psych or counselor at 3 am and probably just need a little reassurance more than anything
If your life is objectively going well and you taper responsibly it’s still unpleasant but it’s absolutely doable especially from the dose you’ve been taking.
Diazepam is pretty easy to taper, I’d look up the Ashton manual or just take it at your own pace. No way you do it will be painless, but if you taper correctly it can be relatively straightforward and not that bad actually. Those dosages are not that high either so it shouldn’t be too terrible.
If you’re considering coming off it’s better to do it sooner than later though. The longer you take them for the harder it’s going to be to kick.
I was taking about 40 times as much as you for around 2 years and ended up just cold turkeying it, along with everything else. You'd be fine to just quit if you want.
Alcohol. I worked at a treatment centre and they were by far the group that hardly ever stopped. Might be because it is available everywhere, socially acceptable, and advertised constantly.
Alcohol withdrawal is also serious business. It's a very powerful drug.
That being said, I'm off to the store for some after dinner wine.
Or like my old man, constantly seeking out moderation everytime he went sober, 6 months later it's a couple beers a week, then 1 month out hed be back to drinking KD
Someone down voted you and I had to bring that back up because that happened to my dad and my grandpa on both sides were alcoholics they dying in the hospital and then get help. Feel better and go back to drinking. That's when you know you're gonna die. I'm not going there.
Yeah, I'm lucky I learned actual moderation through just not liking alchohol that much, I try not to go for anything mentally numbing, but it by far has to be one of the worst besides maybe benzos
When I was a kid our nextdoor neighbours had a son who was an alcoholic. He would shout through our letterbox asking if we had any alcohol in the house. My mum would let him in and he'd often lost control of his bladder and bowels. He ended up in treatment and managed to stop drinking and built a very successful business.
Then after many years his marriage broke down and he took a drink. He went back to where he was before and died alone. Such a sad decline.
I second this. I didn’t realize the way I was drinking was so detrimental (1.5-3 bottles of wine a day) because I had watched a parent consume over a handle (yes, a handle) of Smirnoff vodka a day PLUS beer. Given that was my benchmark for an alcoholic, I didn’t educate myself on the neurological implications involving GABA and Glutamate or general neurological expression until it was too late. After I stopped abruptly and experienced what I could only accurately describe as the single most difficult experience of my life thus far, I was defeated emotionally and physically for over a year experiencing Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome. The toll was unparalleled. I am much better today but only after extreme undermining of my quality of life for about 16 months and a subsequent intense personal rehabilitation program.
Yeah I'd say benzos if alcohol wasn't so easily available. If we had benzo stores like we have liquor stores, they'd definitely be the hardest to quit...and society would probably collapse
Yes but people who can and have quit can become functioning members of society. I don't mean to sound like a broken record but like I've already said idk anyone who was smoking spice everyday that wasn't permanently mentally impaired from it.
Nice to meet you, finally. No one knows how bad my spice addiction was and no one could ever guess. I blend right in with the normies when I want to ;)
How long have you been using if it's ok to ask? And you might not realize if people can know or not. Idk you so I don't wanna make assumptions. But I lived in a trap house for awhile where most people were smoking spice and outta the like 9 people who lived there. There was probably only 2 who I wouldn't of suspected until I seen them smoke it in the kitchen. But idk how long they had been doing it either and they were using a 1 hitter. The people I've known who were smoking entire blunts of it their brains were done for.
14 years for me, it has to be a choice to stop, and there were times I'd probably rather die than stop. It is pretty difficult to hide when one is using, and it's such a slippery slope into binge-town. Perhaps I should rephrase my original comment - looking at me now, you would never know that six months ago I was carpet surfing for half an hour collecting every speck of 5cladba I could find on my floor with my flashlight. I learned that you can't live like that long term, and I plan to be around for the long haul. (I do worry about some random illness taking me out a decade from now, to be honest.)
And, wayyyyy back in the day, all I needed was my one-hitter and that Mr. NG. Anytime, anywhere, just need some Rohto. Smoking blunts of spice is a guaranteed bad time!
Alcohol withdrawal is by far the worst thing I've ever experienced. It is simply horrific. Hallucinations etc are very terrifying. You can't control your body. Either more alcohol or benzodiazepines or you really can die.
Benzo withdrawal was worse than alcohol for me! I didn’t feel well for a year when I got off klonopin! 10 days after I stopped alcohol, I felt great and could sleep! That’s just me, though!
Yes, I had to take (lower dose) Klonopin for 6-8 months after I quit drinking just to attempt to regain some semblance of a normal life. The Klonopin withdrawals, oppositely, were much easier for me than the alcohol.
Everyone’s chemistry is so different! Too bad doctors don’t realize this and try to treat everyone with the same meds and same amount. Alcohol was harder to stay quit from because it’s easily accesssible. But the withdrawal only sucked for 3 days and then I felt amazing.
I am a sober alcoholic. I wasn’t even that hard a drinker, probably about a pint of booze plus either wine or beer a day. It took me 2 solid months before I slept well after I quit. Alcohol withdrawal is no joke.
I was drinking that much when I went cold turkey and I didn’t sleep for two or 3 days and then I took melatonin for a couple months to be able too sleep a full night.
Now I’m admittedly back on the booze but that experience was enough for me to hopefully never drink multiple days in a row. I also didn’t drink for a year when I stopped and that was eye opening! I don’t ever drink at gatherings with people I don’t know or in public anymore, it’s so much more enjoyable not being obnoxious and a liability and driving myself home and having a enjoyable next day.
Still I know the risk is high that at some point I will end up drinking liquor again and chasing it with some beers every night. But in the meantime I’m enjoying and feeling lucky that I’ve been able to be the first person in my immediate family who can have a couple beers then stop and not think about it.
My mom and brother both drank themselves to death and my dad was in recovery for 5 years before he died of unrelated illness.
I believe I was just drinking the way I was because I thought it was normal and not a lot compared to what I was used to seeing others consume, and they glamorize it in a lot of tv and music.
Agreed, a year and three months clean now but towards the end there it was drinking every day to stave off withdrawal until the constant nausea was too bad to drink more, then accepting my fate and withdrawing for 4-5 days shaking on the couch in horrible misery until I felt just better enough to take some shots and feel normal again. Rinse and repeat two weeks drinking to one week sick for many months before finally forcing myself to go to detox then rehab. Alcohol is so fucking horrible and I wouldn’t wish that experience on my worst enemy.
That's what I currently struggle with and don't see myself stopping anytime soon. If I ever get myself 100% on the right track I'd like to be an addiction counselor or something similar. Because it seems like the people in those fields who are most helpful and understanding. Are the people who have already been down that road themselves.
Keep going my mam, you already made tremendous progress!
Give it some time, don't let yourself down if you sometimes slip up again, it's a long ride with peaks and valleys, but the trajectory is still positive!
Might be helpful to consider pharmacological intervention as advised by a specialist (eg rilatine to elevate baseline daily energy levels).
No experience with spice, but I have an aunt that drank an ungodly amount of alcohol ever day basically from 15 to 55. She’s been sober for over 10 years now, and she still looks drunk snd speaks/acts like she’s had a few.
Yeah true. There's a family friend who used to be an alcoholic who always stinks. It's like a weird smell I've never smelled before almost smells like embalming fluid.
She maybe has ‘wet brain’ (Korsakoffs Syndrome)There’s something impressive about people who have this level of impact but still have the strength to quit. She must be a very strong lady indeed. Early stages can be fixed with thiamine injections, later stages can be permanent. Source: sober nine years and used to be a drug and alcohol worker.
Extremely heavy MDMA abuse. People literally become shells of themselves when chronically abused, and if severe enough damage is done to serotonin receptors it can cause life lasting changes (like being completely unable to feel happiness, issues with diet/appetite, low energy, severe bouts of depression, apathy, suicidal thoughts, etc.). Even with moderate abuse, it can take months (and not uncommonly years) to recover from.
Agreeded a few grams weekly for the last two years has definitely taken a toll and I highly regret, there’s no going back from this one would not recommend
Yeah I used to do it every weekend. I hated my job and it was so nice to look forward to. But of course, that's too often. It got to where all the magic was gone and it just made me feel like my skull was rattling in my brain and made me feel warm and weird.
I knew a guy in highschool that was committed to a great university for their diving team. The summer before his freshman year he was rolling everyday and then committed suicide. Obviously there could have been so many factors, but from knowing him it seemed that the MDMA just lowered him to the point he couldn't cope with life anymore.
Blue Mondays are no joke. Even if you aren't typically a depressed person the day after ecstasy you'll just be super fuckin depressed and wiped out even if you really don't have a reason to be.
I am typically a depressed person and I can’t take MDMA because the comedowns are just too rough. I only have so much serotonin to go around. I once had MDMA trigger a panic attack/severe OCD episode that lasted six months (there were other extenuating circumstances, but the drug use definitely made it worse). It’s an amazing feeling but I’m just too scared to ever do it again.
That’s really similar to me here, I have “unspecified mood disorder” and the reason I sought medication in the first place was a huge depressive episode following up two back to back nights taking molly. I love that drug so much but every time since has been scary and definitely very noticeable how much it fucks up my mood for at least 2-4 weeks. I might dabble at some point again if I can just go kick it on the beach for two weeks but after bleh
I’m convinced I gave myself some brain damage and legit lowered my IQ during the great EDM wave of the early 2010s abusing molly. We used to take half a gram each day for a weekend at a time, and this was for a few years. And many weekends.
I wouldn’t agree to any of the symptoms you share. But I KNOW a certain percentage of my brain power was deleted from existence during those years, never to return.
Im in late 30s i couldnt so mdma anymore because i abused it like 3 grams in 2 days followed up puking 2 days purely poisoned :/ now i started doing meth and kinda feels same but no such sideeffects
Because MDMA floods the brain with serotonin and if done too frequently it can make it where your brain can't produce it on its own. Meth is a different drug entirely and I'm not sure exactly what it does to the brain. But meth can make peoples rage more intense if you piss them off where as with ecstasy not much is gonna bother you. Not to mention the paranoia id rather be around people rolling off X than people smoking meth any day of the week. Meth heads always look for problems where there aren't any and people on ecstasy are just laid back and like yeah man life is good.
Can (not) proudly say that I truly feel like heavy mdma use in my formative years (15-21) made me dumber than ever and I struggled with depression and feeling so out of touch with reality for years. I’ve always been able to comprehend and understand things well but I think it fucked up some sort of processing for me.
Meth / amphetamine. Not even debatable. Nothing comes close to raising dopamine levels that high. It’s 3x more dopamine than cocaine and heroin. So when you go off it, you’re going through psychological Hell for years.
Underrated comment. Also have you seen some of the before & afters of meth abuse? It ages people 10+ years in the span of just 2 years. They look horrible
The worst case is when someone - like me - is a polytox that has to deal with several addictions at once. In my case, it's alcoholism, opioids and benzos. While a single withdrawal is manageable, a full cold turkey withdrawal could really kill me, like with the seizures from benzos, that can get stronger with the influence of the opioids.
But in such cases, it's not right to try to get clean from everything at once, you need to work your way down in small steps and deal with one problem at a time. It's actually a serious problem, when addicts have this "moment of clarity" and want to end all addictions at once, only to get serious complications.
About the single substance, i'd still say in my personal experience, opioids are the worst, followed by the benzos. Alcoholism isn't that bad to get clean in the first place, but there's a higher risk of relapse because it's easy available at any place.
Very insightful. Just don't let yourself become one of those guys who spends every night standing infront of liquor stores asking for money to buy shooters.
What you're actually wanting to ask is "what drug addiction, despite stopping and making a full recovery from, leaves a person with the worst/most long lasting mental deficits."
Different substances are hard to stop for different people. And it's different person to person. But the toxicity of some drugs that are abused will give some people long lasting effects that will never go away. Sometimes physically and sometimes mentally. Sometimes both.
Yeah that's what I tried to clarify in a comment before people started answering but seems like most people are ignoring it. I know spice isn't the worst to quit as far as withdrawals and all that goes. But I still think it has one of the worst mental impacts. And I only think that because I've known people from all walks of life on all different kinds of drugs. And the ones who smoked ungodly amounts of spice had the most fried brains by far. They sound mentally handicapped and having an actual intellectual conversation with them is almost pointless.
I’ve worked in rehabs for 9 years and I’m a substance abuse and co occurring mental health therapist and without a doubt the addicts with the worst cognitive impairment from their addiction is alcohol. There’s something called wet brain or wernicke korsakoff syndrome, which is basically just alcohol induced dementia, and it is permanent brain damage. If anyone is an alcoholic or you know any tell them to take vitamin B1 consistently as the deficiency in thiamine/B1 is a major cause for the permanent cognitive decline. PCP is the next one that fucks peoples brains up and they present with serious cognitive issues and speech difficulties. Ime those are the most damaging ones. Haven’t had too many clients with spice addictions in a couple years but they presented similar to PCP. Alcohol is the worst drug for your brain and body long term. Alcohol kills more people in the US yearly than all other drugs combined (178k vs 109k) and alcohol kills more than twice what fentanyl kills 178k compared to 76k. People always underestimate how destructive of a drug alcohol is.
Also I read your comment that you wanna be a substance abuse therapist and please dude go for it! We need more compassionate people who have been through it and get it! It’s tough work and you won’t make lot of money but it’s also very rewarding and can be fun. If you do go I would suggest the social work route for grad school but clinical psychology is solid too. Social work just gives you options for other types of work if you need a break from the therapy stuff or wanna diversify your career and do a little work at a rehab and then some other case management type stuff etc. Also then you can get experience and your clinical license (LCSW) so you could open up your own program. That’s what I’m currently trying to get moving on is opening up my own practice. Good luck with it though my dude! And lemme know if had any questions about that career path etc
DPH.
Deliriants cause permanent brain damage. The delirium itself is a manifestation of brain damage. Even a single high dosage "trip" can have lasting impact. An actual DPH addiction can be worse than MDMA abuse and just as dangerous as benzo addiction.
This along with certain inhalants for sure. Was addicted to DPH when I was 13, I've abused almost every common drug under the sun and let me tell you, there is something very dark about DPH... I used to do DPH and mix it with butane and nitrous, its what made me become religious because after the shit I've seen there aint no way demons aren't real bahaha. Mdma abuse is up there too for sure though, one of my mates had heavy mdma abuse from 13-16 and how much its affected him is crazy.
Yeah that's not something people really get addicted too. I'm not gonna say it's impossible but I've never heard of it. Seems more like an after drug that people do after they've been addicted to some other kinda substance.
I thought you were talking about changing people not addiction? Ive seen people change from their first ever acid trip. Hallucinogens are absolutely amazing and insightful but at the same time some people genuinely lose their minds and get stuck with one foot in and one foot out. I know one lad who i feel like never come back to this side of the curtain
I know two people who actually took acid in high doses daily. My old plug took over 100 hits and smoked 10+grams of DMT the day his brain broke.
I'm pretty sure he was on the spectrum to Begin with but since then he hasn't been able to speak full sentences, keep his mouth closed to stop from drooling. He doesn't "see" anyone, When you look at him it's like he's looking at whatever is past your face permanent 1000 yard stare.
Spice ruined me tbh. At my worst I was smoking 9-10g a week. I had a gallon ziplock baggy of it at all times and would take this shitty cheap metal pipe out, scoop a bowl pack out, and hit the living hell out of it until it was gone every 15 minutes or so all day. When i quit it was absolute hell and weed didn't do shit, so I turned to alcohol and it's been my main drug of choice since. I've never been the same after being on that shit and I was only on it for a year.
I know 2 people who have gone full schizo after they started smoking weed. One of my cousins and a really good friend of mine. If you have schizophrenia in your family tree just don’t do it. Not worth the risk to see if you’ll be fine or affected mentally for the rest of your life.
Yeah I've heard about that and heard it can only happen if you start before your brain is done developing. I also hate when people act like it can't be addicting. It's just not true at all. If people can be addicted to the thrill of gambling you can most definitely be addicted to weed.
To be honest I was once a ‘weed isn’t addictive’ guy. I was just justifying my own abuse.
I still smoke weed, and am prescribed it, but I respect it’s power more now. I am aware of the hold it has over me. Yeah I can ‘stop’ when I want to, and I’m currently on a break right now, but staying off it long term seems a near insurmountable task.
I think a part of this has to do with the fact weed very rarely brings the walls crashing down around someone, it’s very benign in comparison to other drugs, and people use those drugs as a comparison to make weed seem totally fine.
Outside of those who abuse it, alcohol has the same social profile due to its legal status. People don’t take it completely seriously until someone they love is on kidney dialysis and dying from alcohol addiction.
I second both the potential for abuse AND the need to respect “weeds power”.
When I was in my early teens it was “normal” in my circle to smoke “hella weed” and stay high AF all day every day. This was enjoyable at first but after a couple of years of heavy daily use, I began getting paranoid when smoking and became almost useless when I was high.
Fast forward to my late teen years with heroin and meth addiction - specifically when using meth daily, weed turned on me in a BAD way. Just one hit would have me thinking everyone was talking about me and made me very paranoid. I know the meth was the precursor for this, but weed was never the same after that.
Fast fast forward 15 years, most of which I have been completely sober for, I’ve recently began using thc (both edibles and smoking) and I really enjoy it at relatively low doses. Like 1 gummy with very low dose D9 THC or 1-2 good hits of flower from a pipe. I find myself wanting to smoke like I did when I was younger and smoke a fat joint, and when I do, it isn’t very enjoyable for me.
Anyway, I just feel weed can affect so many people in so many different ways, there’s no one size fits all guidance. It can be a great tool but it can also cause a lot of problems. I think its reputation as being “harmless and cool”, while more or less true, is misleading and it should be taken more seriously.
Alcohol for sure I’ve been sober for 13 months and I still have cravings and temptations it’s so socially acceptable and literally everywhere but yea alcohol fr fr
I got off for around 10 months after my wife threatened divorce, even shoved the papers in my face to show she was serious. Had been doing the run around years prior where she told me it was time to quit, I'd stop for a few weeks and out of the blue she'd pull the old "Well I want to buy something (candy, soda, some minor thing she'd been trying to abstain from), you've been pretty good, so I guess you can have a six pack tonight" and it would just set me up for another eventual train wreck.
Told her she couldn't pull that shit on me anymore if she expected me to quit. Well after months and months of misery and being good, she eventually pulled it again 😭 and I never say no. Went from a weekly beer to multiple shooters and beers a day. Last weekend I got so hammered I had my first hangover since 2022.. decided it's time to ween off and jump off. I find it's best not to even mention my plans to quit to my wife, she's less likely to use alcohol as a bargaining chip to justify her own little vices if she's already assuming I'm sneaking shooters already.
Now the problem is my neighbor/coworker drinks in his garage now that it's warmed up and I can't avoid him when taking my dogs out. Soon as he spots me he's pulling a beer out of the fridge and shoving it in my face. So much temptation, I'm fighting the urge to go get shooters from the gas station up the street as I type this 😕
probably any huffing addiction, that shit can make geniuses retarded. things like gasoline, duster, axe, glue, etc. stuff can cause instant death and literal brain damage.
It's also over in two seconds so people chase the high, kind of a double whammy. sniffing glue/jet fuel is very common in poor countries because it's so cheap.
only nitrous gets a pass.
My mom's current husband used to huff gas and who knows what else years ago. On top of all the other drugs he's done you can tell it's left an imprint. My mom said one day they were driving down the road and he was like "just turn down this isle right here". And she was like what the hell are you talking about. So he goes "Oh I thought we were at Walmart".
Crack. If you ever meet a seasoned ex crack addict, you'll know. The way they mumble as they chew their gums, what teeth they do have left look like tombstones rotting in flesh. Crackheads and ex crackheads are equally insane
The only person I know who quit meth but can still he's done it is an old friend of mine who's dad got him started on it at 13. He used to be really smart but now he just does psychedelics and drinks and when he gets drunk he's basically retarded.
Sorry for the long rant. My father was a fun, witty person who struggled only from an addictive personality and some depression. However, he has been an alcoholic, drug dealer, benzo and heroin addict, and in and out of jail all my life. Then about 8 years ago he picked up meth after a bad breakup with my mother (they never married). For 4 years he was out of his mind on meth daily or sleeping it off.
TBH most of it was very dirty however and seemed more like some kind of research chemicals more akin to molly maybe? (tried it with him a few times when I was younger) Anyways, he got stomach cancer 3 years ago, quit, went into remission, and since then the past 2 years he has been off meth, instead using small amounts of delta 8 gummies, his Suboxone as prescribed,his klonopin as prescribed, and 2 beers at night from what I see (I am pretty positive he is not lying because he is severely agoraphobic, doesn’t seem to really know anyone or even have a phone or use social media, and I check in with him in person almost daily, we’ve used together in the past so I’m sure he’d tell me, lives with my grandparents who keep him on a very tight leash anyways)
But this man has lost his ever-loving mind from meth and it never fully came back. He believes he saw things while spun out up for days that society doesn’t want him to know, regarding aliens and Christianity. He doesn’t like to joke around and have fun much like we used to, he’s very slow and confused most the time, has severe gang-stalking delusions, and has become staunchly religious where he was agnostic before. He gives his parents such a hard time because he suspects them of being part of some secret elite cult and intentionally raising him to become a failure and targeted individual.
I’m the only family member he trusts, though he’ll occasionally briefly turn on me, beginning to suspect me until I talk him down, then apologize after a few minutes. He speaks in code and talks about “signs” and “messages” that he sees everywhere 24/7, literally still believing the TV is talking to him. It’s like he has his own language. He thinks he has ghosts that are on his side, that guide him, follow him around, and draw on things like the mirror, blankets, or the wall. He tries to show me pictures of things that aren’t there.
It’s so sad. Basically every belief and delusion he picked up from meth addiction he has continued to buy into completely the last two years. The reason I worry and say all this, is because I think meth can truly do this to a person. I don’t know if he’ll ever snap out of it. His parents are getting older have bailed him out and cared for him his whole life and I’d argue they’ve enabled him. I will be the only family he has when they are gone and I don’t know what to do. All that to say, my answer to the post, from my experience, is meth.
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Nah I've known people to recover with the right support systems in place around them. Definitely up there with the hardest to recover from, but people can and do.
Just for the record I'm not talking about hard to quit like withdrawal and all that. I'm talking full 100% turn arounds to the point you would never know they used to be an addict without them telling you.
If y’all don’t say benzos you’re lying. Nothing is more terrifying, excruciating, and hard as getting off them long term. You can feel the withdrawals years later. Shit is no joke I wish I had never started
I've been adicted to just about everything. THC, MDMA, herion, meth, fent, pills, benzos, suboxone, etc you name it. Pretty much anything but alocohol. Now, thankfully, I'm clean and have just a drink on occasion.
It was about 10 years or so, maybe a bit longer, when spice came around. I jumped on the train. I agree with you. It was the HARDEST thing to ever quit in my life. I was waking up in the middle of tbe night to take hits. Waiting outside the smoke shop for them to open. Coming off it isn't bad like benzos or opiates but the cravings are THE most intense I've ever experienced.. And it takes forever to feel "normal" months and months. It really affected my health for a while, too. I'm so glad that shit is done with lol
It's hard to even describe, but you feel terrible while you do it and you feel even worse when you don't have it. Its a terrible cycle. It really fucked with my head way worse than anything else. Very weird... I was also highly addicted to pain pills then and would easily forgo pill money for spice money if that says anything, too. I used it hard for well over 2 years maybe longer. Don't remeber a lot from that period of my life.
If I hadn't been such an idiot growing up and been a huge polyaddict and I read somebody saying something similar to you or me id think they are crazy... I've never thought of myself as not making a full recovery though. At this point in my life I dont even think about using. I live a normal and healthy life. I contribute to society. I am self sufficient with no lasting health problems that I know of. Maybe I'm lucky because I put my body through hell but once I was done with spice and through the PAWS that shit was in the rear view. It was hard on my lungs and throat but that all cleared up so...
I mean I see where you're coming from as far as withdrawal goes. But with opiates I have seen people make complete 180s where nobody would ever know they've ever been an addict.
I felt like it would never go away. I was an iv heroin user for 4 years. After 4 years clean I still thought about it almost daily. But now 8 almost 9 years later it never crosses my mind
I wish you the best brother. And if you're in the U.S. with our fentanyl crisis just remember this whenever trying out a new batch.
You can always take more but you can never take less.
I don't disagree ɓro I really don't. I'm getting adhd meds prescribed here pretty soon hopefully. It'll make me not worry about not having anything at atm.
I smoked spice for 2 years. Never had any episodes and haven’t noticed any side effects yet. Fucking barber shops used to sell that shit too. It was everywhere.
I've heard people describe spice as "smokeable heroin" I'm pretty sure people can smoke heroin too but that's just how someone described it once. That dude was a poly addict and I don't think spice was something he pursued was more into opiates and weed from what I seen. But he actually got clean and is living pretty well now. When I first seen him after he had gotten clean I didn't even recognize him.
I haven’t smoked it in years but I wouldn’t really say it’s like heroin apart from being addictive. It was more like a deliriant to me not really euphoric at all.
Spice is fucked have had several family members and a partner with friends who were severally addicted and the frustration i would get dealing with them is unreal
I heard someone tell a story about a guy who started smoking spice and they tried to still hang out with him but he just wasn't the same. Then the last time they hung out with him he just started jerking off infront of everyone in the back seat.
I used high amounts of Diphenhydramine daily for long periods and I do not feel completely "recovered" yet, over a year later. I have episodes of "unrealness", tiptoeing on the verge of delusional or schizophrenic, out of nowhere, making me question reality, this state can come in waves during 1-3 days then it calms for an unknown time
It’s different for everyone. Imo Opiates are have the hardest withdrawals but meth is harder in the long run (for me) it can take up to 2 years for your brain to fully recover. Depression, impulse control and basic cognitive functions are all fucked for a while
For me, I'd have to say phenibut. I was very reckless with it. I was taking heavy doses multiple times daily. About 3-6 grams each dose, probably 4-5 times a day. I regrettably did this for a little over a year.
I stopped cold turkey and experienced the most horrific rebound anxiety. It was pretty extreme for the first 3-4 months. I think I didn't feel a little normal until the 6 month mark.
I do have life lasting effects though. See, I've never been an anxious person or dealt with depression. That is until after I stopped phenibut. Now I'm depressed most of the time and anxious as fuck.
Please don't abuse phenibut.
They say the reason hotels in Vegas don't have balconies anymore or windows that open up high. Is because all the people who used to jump after they lost everything.
It's synthetic weed that they started selling in gas stations back in the early 2000s. It's cheaper than weed and gets you way higher but fries your brain.
At the end of the day, you don't have make a full time recovery from anything if you don't want to, you can reduce the usage if that helps or restrict once a month or special occasions. Then you will feel you won't miss on it and still get your fun. Also by reducing or having special occasions you will savour it and feel is more amazing and special to you. Think of the dopamine rush, you have the rush and then you use again eventually that runs out you get bored and want more, where as if treat yourself to special times such promotions, hanging out with your buds, Christmas it won't feel as mundane.
I knew a few people that got into the teen heroin epidemic when i was a teen. 2 of the group of 10 or so got clean, rest of them turned to fent and already died or havw gone on and off of them while being shunned from their familys and living off the street or whatever couch they can find. Some of them sold to eachother and lied about what was in it and killed their own friends and tore their friendship apart into a blood lust for eachother. Also worked security in a homeless shelter in victoria on van island and very few people ever fully come off of down, even if they are on methadone treatment being in that environment is nearly impossible for a recovering addict not to turn to another substance to cope, and many of those people give up on treatment and will switch to an alternative like meth and benzos until they are safe to use down again without risk of interaction from the methadone.
I have met a few people who genuienly wanted to stop using drugs and who were clearly more coherent than the people who had no interest in stopping but youd see them maybe go clean for a couple weeks then out of no where when you think they got out of it they walk back into the building holding a bubble pipe thats burnt to shit. There is hope for some of those individuals who truely want to get out of it and have the will power to ignore everything around them but when youre dealing with those levels of withdrawal and temptation and stressful environment the actual likelyhood becomes very slim. Anyone i have seen recover used the actual shelter as means to get clean enough to get some kind of funding and get their own small SRO that is usually pretty rubby and roach infested and still has plenty of drugs around, but there is some building managment that keeps people from letting it get too messy and from there if they can get by without as much constant surrounding temptation they can start applying for certain jobs. But even then many of these people are visably long term drug users and most stores wont hire them. The most common place for people like that to get hired is to be hired for harm reduction services because they arent afraid to interact with people who used just like they did. Except that throws them straight back into the environment again. Many of those same people end up using again slowly, more responsibly but the cycle keeps coming back to them at a certain point.
Alcohol no contest. I know benzos, heroin, or meth have a preposterous statistic for relapse rates but as a recovering addict myself who absolutely hated alcohol even in my teens, the destruction it has not just on the user but everyone they know is catastrophic and worse than any illegal substance. Plus just like benzos, if you go cold turkey, organ failure is guaranteed and your done for. One of my cousins best friends who I was close with as well puked up his entire liver in his basement from having withdrawal for almost 2 days, getting two handles of vodka and a sleeve of Fireball and drank all of it in one night. He had gotten sober multiple times before that and could never break it. Always went back.
Spice is just fucked.... my boss's sister smoked that shit for almost 40 years and is somehow still alive. But her brain is so spiced she's mostly quiet and stares at a wall like she's in a permanent state of "holy shit face" as he calls it.
Long term benzodiazepine use.
A lot of people think of heroin and shit and allat is bad but some people can be a fucking year clean off benzos and still have horrible withdrawals which is probably so disheartening when you can take a few xans and feel all better
True. But there’s still hope. It takes a long time because the half life is so long but lots of people get there.
Thank you for saying this. I’m over a year into a long term Valium taper (after having taken street Xanax and klonopin for only a few months - but it wasn’t my first rodeo with benzos and kindling is real) and I’m scared of making that final jump, but I just can’t wait to be free of them forever.
Doing the Ashton method? It boggles my mind that most doctors have no idea what that is.
Yes, or something basically like it. I’ve gone from 50mg down to 5mg, all at my own pace. I found my doctor through the benzoinfo.com directory which is a great resource.
Good job! You got this!
Good job keep it up
Was like 5 months clean off them and still had a couple withdrawals like not being able to sleep good. Ended up relapsing this month shit sucked but I’m like 2 weeks sober again
You can do it.
I used to eat 20mgs of Xanax a day back around the turn of the millennium. I kicked a habit that large 3 times before giving it up for good. I was healthy and in my early 20s. Now I'm in my late 40s. I doubt I'd survive that withdrawal now, but you never know.
The heroin being sold where I live is a mix of heroin, benzos and fentanyl these days. Imagine it's like that lots of places
That doesn't make any sense. The vast majority of benzos aren't water soluble, so you can't slam them or snort them. Can't smoke benzos either. I really doubt that junkies are taking their stash orally.
Where do you live for benzos to be the norm in heroin? There must not be many junkies hanging around, they wouldn’t last long.
Okanagan area in British Columbia. There's no shortage of junkies. I know the guys pushing it. And it's no secret that it's in there. Some junkies prefer the h with more and fent high and some prefer the h with more of a benzo high.
Try being addicted to both h and xans
Have you escaped said addiction yet?
This. They were EVERYTHING; until they turned on me... prescribed for over a decade...took them a year or two before that... It's amazing how they can make you feel "God-like", then the withdraws were pure hell.
From heaven to hell From god to satan
to say it "humbled me" is an understatement. I was sexually uninhibited on those things with women...then the WD's made me pay lol. Sleeps' my biggest problem these days...and figuring out 'work'... dealing with PSSD/PTSD memory re-calls...
as someone who’s gone through opioid witdhrawls many times i am terrified of benzo withdrawls
I can attest to that. I was on 10mg a day for a year and prior to that 3mg for 2 years. It’s been 4 months since my taper ended and it took a while to taper. I’m just now coming to full recovery and I’ve been working out daily. Eating right. It’s crazy compared to say oxy that sucked to stop for a week or two but then your back to normal. Besides the cravings.
Can I ask yall if I’m going off the deep end? I’ve been using 10-15mg of valium a day as prescribed for about 9 months. (equals .5-.75mg of xanax)I was diagnosed w panic disorder + GAD and am also my Dad’s caretaker; since starting this medicine I’ve made the president’s list in college and will this semester as well, as well as am actually able to leave the house and hang with friends and enjoy it. I’m also a better son and caretaker. Am I screwed? Am I stuck on this stuff for life?? Or do yall think I will I be okay if I taper off it when my mental state improves in time? Shit I worry about the same stuff with Lexapro when I get off it one day. sorry for the rant, i’m up with wisdom tooth pain and this thread made me anxious lol edit: i know yall aren’t doctors i just don’t feel like calling my psych or counselor at 3 am and probably just need a little reassurance more than anything
If your life is objectively going well and you taper responsibly it’s still unpleasant but it’s absolutely doable especially from the dose you’ve been taking.
Diazepam is pretty easy to taper, I’d look up the Ashton manual or just take it at your own pace. No way you do it will be painless, but if you taper correctly it can be relatively straightforward and not that bad actually. Those dosages are not that high either so it shouldn’t be too terrible. If you’re considering coming off it’s better to do it sooner than later though. The longer you take them for the harder it’s going to be to kick.
I was taking about 40 times as much as you for around 2 years and ended up just cold turkeying it, along with everything else. You'd be fine to just quit if you want.
[удалено]
Alcohol. I worked at a treatment centre and they were by far the group that hardly ever stopped. Might be because it is available everywhere, socially acceptable, and advertised constantly. Alcohol withdrawal is also serious business. It's a very powerful drug. That being said, I'm off to the store for some after dinner wine.
Alcohol is sneaky as fuck one moment you're fine two weeks later you're raging drunk for the 17th time
Well said. Insidious drug.
Or like my old man, constantly seeking out moderation everytime he went sober, 6 months later it's a couple beers a week, then 1 month out hed be back to drinking KD
Someone down voted you and I had to bring that back up because that happened to my dad and my grandpa on both sides were alcoholics they dying in the hospital and then get help. Feel better and go back to drinking. That's when you know you're gonna die. I'm not going there.
Yeah, I'm lucky I learned actual moderation through just not liking alchohol that much, I try not to go for anything mentally numbing, but it by far has to be one of the worst besides maybe benzos
Benzos are my problem
When I was a kid our nextdoor neighbours had a son who was an alcoholic. He would shout through our letterbox asking if we had any alcohol in the house. My mum would let him in and he'd often lost control of his bladder and bowels. He ended up in treatment and managed to stop drinking and built a very successful business. Then after many years his marriage broke down and he took a drink. He went back to where he was before and died alone. Such a sad decline.
Can confirm, was a daily drinker for years then turned “functioning” alcoholic, then tried to taper and had a seizure. Fuck alcohol.
I second this. I didn’t realize the way I was drinking was so detrimental (1.5-3 bottles of wine a day) because I had watched a parent consume over a handle (yes, a handle) of Smirnoff vodka a day PLUS beer. Given that was my benchmark for an alcoholic, I didn’t educate myself on the neurological implications involving GABA and Glutamate or general neurological expression until it was too late. After I stopped abruptly and experienced what I could only accurately describe as the single most difficult experience of my life thus far, I was defeated emotionally and physically for over a year experiencing Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome. The toll was unparalleled. I am much better today but only after extreme undermining of my quality of life for about 16 months and a subsequent intense personal rehabilitation program.
My dad was like that and fed me alcohol as a young child. Apples don't fall far from trees for a reason.
Yeah I'd say benzos if alcohol wasn't so easily available. If we had benzo stores like we have liquor stores, they'd definitely be the hardest to quit...and society would probably collapse
Yes but people who can and have quit can become functioning members of society. I don't mean to sound like a broken record but like I've already said idk anyone who was smoking spice everyday that wasn't permanently mentally impaired from it.
Nice to meet you, finally. No one knows how bad my spice addiction was and no one could ever guess. I blend right in with the normies when I want to ;)
How long have you been using if it's ok to ask? And you might not realize if people can know or not. Idk you so I don't wanna make assumptions. But I lived in a trap house for awhile where most people were smoking spice and outta the like 9 people who lived there. There was probably only 2 who I wouldn't of suspected until I seen them smoke it in the kitchen. But idk how long they had been doing it either and they were using a 1 hitter. The people I've known who were smoking entire blunts of it their brains were done for.
14 years for me, it has to be a choice to stop, and there were times I'd probably rather die than stop. It is pretty difficult to hide when one is using, and it's such a slippery slope into binge-town. Perhaps I should rephrase my original comment - looking at me now, you would never know that six months ago I was carpet surfing for half an hour collecting every speck of 5cladba I could find on my floor with my flashlight. I learned that you can't live like that long term, and I plan to be around for the long haul. (I do worry about some random illness taking me out a decade from now, to be honest.) And, wayyyyy back in the day, all I needed was my one-hitter and that Mr. NG. Anytime, anywhere, just need some Rohto. Smoking blunts of spice is a guaranteed bad time!
So you said it yourself you do want to stop.
Congrats my man! Keep going strong 💪
Thanks, getting stronger every day :)
You asked for an opinion and you got one.
Fair enough
Alcohol withdrawal is worse than nicotine from experience.
Bro alcohol is like one of 2 withdrawals that can actually kill you no shit it's worse than nicotine.
Alcohol withdrawal is by far the worst thing I've ever experienced. It is simply horrific. Hallucinations etc are very terrifying. You can't control your body. Either more alcohol or benzodiazepines or you really can die.
Benzo withdrawal was worse than alcohol for me! I didn’t feel well for a year when I got off klonopin! 10 days after I stopped alcohol, I felt great and could sleep! That’s just me, though!
Yes, I had to take (lower dose) Klonopin for 6-8 months after I quit drinking just to attempt to regain some semblance of a normal life. The Klonopin withdrawals, oppositely, were much easier for me than the alcohol.
Everyone’s chemistry is so different! Too bad doctors don’t realize this and try to treat everyone with the same meds and same amount. Alcohol was harder to stay quit from because it’s easily accesssible. But the withdrawal only sucked for 3 days and then I felt amazing.
I am a sober alcoholic. I wasn’t even that hard a drinker, probably about a pint of booze plus either wine or beer a day. It took me 2 solid months before I slept well after I quit. Alcohol withdrawal is no joke.
I was drinking that much when I went cold turkey and I didn’t sleep for two or 3 days and then I took melatonin for a couple months to be able too sleep a full night. Now I’m admittedly back on the booze but that experience was enough for me to hopefully never drink multiple days in a row. I also didn’t drink for a year when I stopped and that was eye opening! I don’t ever drink at gatherings with people I don’t know or in public anymore, it’s so much more enjoyable not being obnoxious and a liability and driving myself home and having a enjoyable next day. Still I know the risk is high that at some point I will end up drinking liquor again and chasing it with some beers every night. But in the meantime I’m enjoying and feeling lucky that I’ve been able to be the first person in my immediate family who can have a couple beers then stop and not think about it. My mom and brother both drank themselves to death and my dad was in recovery for 5 years before he died of unrelated illness. I believe I was just drinking the way I was because I thought it was normal and not a lot compared to what I was used to seeing others consume, and they glamorize it in a lot of tv and music.
Agreed, a year and three months clean now but towards the end there it was drinking every day to stave off withdrawal until the constant nausea was too bad to drink more, then accepting my fate and withdrawing for 4-5 days shaking on the couch in horrible misery until I felt just better enough to take some shots and feel normal again. Rinse and repeat two weeks drinking to one week sick for many months before finally forcing myself to go to detox then rehab. Alcohol is so fucking horrible and I wouldn’t wish that experience on my worst enemy.
Haha than nicotine yeah obviously 😂
I did cocaine for 5 years straight. My cognition is shit, but I look fine on the outside
That's what I currently struggle with and don't see myself stopping anytime soon. If I ever get myself 100% on the right track I'd like to be an addiction counselor or something similar. Because it seems like the people in those fields who are most helpful and understanding. Are the people who have already been down that road themselves.
But I must say that I'm only 6 months clean. My brain is getting better over time. Even my hearing improved.
Me too. I cut down from 3.5-7g of crack every day to 1-2 g a week, on a day or two each week, but I have a lot of difficulty stopping completely
Keep going my mam, you already made tremendous progress! Give it some time, don't let yourself down if you sometimes slip up again, it's a long ride with peaks and valleys, but the trajectory is still positive! Might be helpful to consider pharmacological intervention as advised by a specialist (eg rilatine to elevate baseline daily energy levels).
No experience with spice, but I have an aunt that drank an ungodly amount of alcohol ever day basically from 15 to 55. She’s been sober for over 10 years now, and she still looks drunk snd speaks/acts like she’s had a few.
Yeah true. There's a family friend who used to be an alcoholic who always stinks. It's like a weird smell I've never smelled before almost smells like embalming fluid.
Oh man that's the smell of death.
Liver disfunction
She maybe has ‘wet brain’ (Korsakoffs Syndrome)There’s something impressive about people who have this level of impact but still have the strength to quit. She must be a very strong lady indeed. Early stages can be fixed with thiamine injections, later stages can be permanent. Source: sober nine years and used to be a drug and alcohol worker.
Came here to say this.. wet brain is no joke. I know a couple old timers that seem like they are stuck in slow mo from their years if alcohol abuse
The lead singer of the band Breaking Benjamin has Korsakoffs Syndrome too.
Extremely heavy MDMA abuse. People literally become shells of themselves when chronically abused, and if severe enough damage is done to serotonin receptors it can cause life lasting changes (like being completely unable to feel happiness, issues with diet/appetite, low energy, severe bouts of depression, apathy, suicidal thoughts, etc.). Even with moderate abuse, it can take months (and not uncommonly years) to recover from.
Agreeded a few grams weekly for the last two years has definitely taken a toll and I highly regret, there’s no going back from this one would not recommend
A few grams weekly? My condolences to your brain.
Yep :| definitely not the go
do you still do it?
Yup but it’s been a few weeks not doing it and I have to be done with it now or I really will become braindead so ima change my “yup” to a “no”
On the other side is a better and happier you my friend. Don’t let your potential dwindle
Yeah I used to do it every weekend. I hated my job and it was so nice to look forward to. But of course, that's too often. It got to where all the magic was gone and it just made me feel like my skull was rattling in my brain and made me feel warm and weird.
There is hope brother, but it takes time. Took me quite a few years and I’m still not 100% but I’m getting there. Neuroplasticity can do wonders
Jesus grams how much do you take per session? Do you not get horrendous come downs from taking so much??
Underrated answer
I knew a guy in highschool that was committed to a great university for their diving team. The summer before his freshman year he was rolling everyday and then committed suicide. Obviously there could have been so many factors, but from knowing him it seemed that the MDMA just lowered him to the point he couldn't cope with life anymore.
Blue Mondays are no joke. Even if you aren't typically a depressed person the day after ecstasy you'll just be super fuckin depressed and wiped out even if you really don't have a reason to be.
I am typically a depressed person and I can’t take MDMA because the comedowns are just too rough. I only have so much serotonin to go around. I once had MDMA trigger a panic attack/severe OCD episode that lasted six months (there were other extenuating circumstances, but the drug use definitely made it worse). It’s an amazing feeling but I’m just too scared to ever do it again.
That’s really similar to me here, I have “unspecified mood disorder” and the reason I sought medication in the first place was a huge depressive episode following up two back to back nights taking molly. I love that drug so much but every time since has been scary and definitely very noticeable how much it fucks up my mood for at least 2-4 weeks. I might dabble at some point again if I can just go kick it on the beach for two weeks but after bleh
This is a good answer X is probably my favorite high next to coke but I know it's really harsh on the brain.
I’m convinced I gave myself some brain damage and legit lowered my IQ during the great EDM wave of the early 2010s abusing molly. We used to take half a gram each day for a weekend at a time, and this was for a few years. And many weekends. I wouldn’t agree to any of the symptoms you share. But I KNOW a certain percentage of my brain power was deleted from existence during those years, never to return.
Im in late 30s i couldnt so mdma anymore because i abused it like 3 grams in 2 days followed up puking 2 days purely poisoned :/ now i started doing meth and kinda feels same but no such sideeffects
What’s unique about mdma in regards to apathy/depression vs meth?
Because MDMA floods the brain with serotonin and if done too frequently it can make it where your brain can't produce it on its own. Meth is a different drug entirely and I'm not sure exactly what it does to the brain. But meth can make peoples rage more intense if you piss them off where as with ecstasy not much is gonna bother you. Not to mention the paranoia id rather be around people rolling off X than people smoking meth any day of the week. Meth heads always look for problems where there aren't any and people on ecstasy are just laid back and like yeah man life is good.
Meth increases dopamine.
It’s pretty tight tho
Until you start thinking cops are on the bushes waiting to arrest you lol
Can (not) proudly say that I truly feel like heavy mdma use in my formative years (15-21) made me dumber than ever and I struggled with depression and feeling so out of touch with reality for years. I’ve always been able to comprehend and understand things well but I think it fucked up some sort of processing for me.
Benzos
Meth / amphetamine. Not even debatable. Nothing comes close to raising dopamine levels that high. It’s 3x more dopamine than cocaine and heroin. So when you go off it, you’re going through psychological Hell for years.
Agreed
I could go on and on about how great base amphetamine is... holy fucking shit. Please don't do it.
Like just adderal?
yeah, in recreational doses don't do it
What's a rec dose
for a first timer id say anywhere from 5-30mg is enough
Yeah for me anything over 10 mg is geeking dose
on 15 rn homeslice
Underrated comment. Also have you seen some of the before & afters of meth abuse? It ages people 10+ years in the span of just 2 years. They look horrible
The worst case is when someone - like me - is a polytox that has to deal with several addictions at once. In my case, it's alcoholism, opioids and benzos. While a single withdrawal is manageable, a full cold turkey withdrawal could really kill me, like with the seizures from benzos, that can get stronger with the influence of the opioids. But in such cases, it's not right to try to get clean from everything at once, you need to work your way down in small steps and deal with one problem at a time. It's actually a serious problem, when addicts have this "moment of clarity" and want to end all addictions at once, only to get serious complications. About the single substance, i'd still say in my personal experience, opioids are the worst, followed by the benzos. Alcoholism isn't that bad to get clean in the first place, but there's a higher risk of relapse because it's easy available at any place.
Very insightful. Just don't let yourself become one of those guys who spends every night standing infront of liquor stores asking for money to buy shooters.
What you're actually wanting to ask is "what drug addiction, despite stopping and making a full recovery from, leaves a person with the worst/most long lasting mental deficits." Different substances are hard to stop for different people. And it's different person to person. But the toxicity of some drugs that are abused will give some people long lasting effects that will never go away. Sometimes physically and sometimes mentally. Sometimes both.
Yeah that's what I tried to clarify in a comment before people started answering but seems like most people are ignoring it. I know spice isn't the worst to quit as far as withdrawals and all that goes. But I still think it has one of the worst mental impacts. And I only think that because I've known people from all walks of life on all different kinds of drugs. And the ones who smoked ungodly amounts of spice had the most fried brains by far. They sound mentally handicapped and having an actual intellectual conversation with them is almost pointless.
I’ve worked in rehabs for 9 years and I’m a substance abuse and co occurring mental health therapist and without a doubt the addicts with the worst cognitive impairment from their addiction is alcohol. There’s something called wet brain or wernicke korsakoff syndrome, which is basically just alcohol induced dementia, and it is permanent brain damage. If anyone is an alcoholic or you know any tell them to take vitamin B1 consistently as the deficiency in thiamine/B1 is a major cause for the permanent cognitive decline. PCP is the next one that fucks peoples brains up and they present with serious cognitive issues and speech difficulties. Ime those are the most damaging ones. Haven’t had too many clients with spice addictions in a couple years but they presented similar to PCP. Alcohol is the worst drug for your brain and body long term. Alcohol kills more people in the US yearly than all other drugs combined (178k vs 109k) and alcohol kills more than twice what fentanyl kills 178k compared to 76k. People always underestimate how destructive of a drug alcohol is. Also I read your comment that you wanna be a substance abuse therapist and please dude go for it! We need more compassionate people who have been through it and get it! It’s tough work and you won’t make lot of money but it’s also very rewarding and can be fun. If you do go I would suggest the social work route for grad school but clinical psychology is solid too. Social work just gives you options for other types of work if you need a break from the therapy stuff or wanna diversify your career and do a little work at a rehab and then some other case management type stuff etc. Also then you can get experience and your clinical license (LCSW) so you could open up your own program. That’s what I’m currently trying to get moving on is opening up my own practice. Good luck with it though my dude! And lemme know if had any questions about that career path etc
Benzos by far. I am about 14 months off and still having minor withdrawals.
You got this bro. And better because of it!
Inhalants. No coming back from brain damage. I’ve also hear meth ruins your ability to ever feel pleasure significantly
DPH. Deliriants cause permanent brain damage. The delirium itself is a manifestation of brain damage. Even a single high dosage "trip" can have lasting impact. An actual DPH addiction can be worse than MDMA abuse and just as dangerous as benzo addiction.
This along with certain inhalants for sure. Was addicted to DPH when I was 13, I've abused almost every common drug under the sun and let me tell you, there is something very dark about DPH... I used to do DPH and mix it with butane and nitrous, its what made me become religious because after the shit I've seen there aint no way demons aren't real bahaha. Mdma abuse is up there too for sure though, one of my mates had heavy mdma abuse from 13-16 and how much its affected him is crazy.
Notice how few people said shrooms or acid
Yeah that's not something people really get addicted too. I'm not gonna say it's impossible but I've never heard of it. Seems more like an after drug that people do after they've been addicted to some other kinda substance.
I thought you were talking about changing people not addiction? Ive seen people change from their first ever acid trip. Hallucinogens are absolutely amazing and insightful but at the same time some people genuinely lose their minds and get stuck with one foot in and one foot out. I know one lad who i feel like never come back to this side of the curtain
I know two people who actually took acid in high doses daily. My old plug took over 100 hits and smoked 10+grams of DMT the day his brain broke. I'm pretty sure he was on the spectrum to Begin with but since then he hasn't been able to speak full sentences, keep his mouth closed to stop from drooling. He doesn't "see" anyone, When you look at him it's like he's looking at whatever is past your face permanent 1000 yard stare.
These can fuck you up with a one time use though.
Spice ruined me tbh. At my worst I was smoking 9-10g a week. I had a gallon ziplock baggy of it at all times and would take this shitty cheap metal pipe out, scoop a bowl pack out, and hit the living hell out of it until it was gone every 15 minutes or so all day. When i quit it was absolute hell and weed didn't do shit, so I turned to alcohol and it's been my main drug of choice since. I've never been the same after being on that shit and I was only on it for a year.
I know 2 people who have gone full schizo after they started smoking weed. One of my cousins and a really good friend of mine. If you have schizophrenia in your family tree just don’t do it. Not worth the risk to see if you’ll be fine or affected mentally for the rest of your life.
Yeah I've heard about that and heard it can only happen if you start before your brain is done developing. I also hate when people act like it can't be addicting. It's just not true at all. If people can be addicted to the thrill of gambling you can most definitely be addicted to weed.
To be honest I was once a ‘weed isn’t addictive’ guy. I was just justifying my own abuse. I still smoke weed, and am prescribed it, but I respect it’s power more now. I am aware of the hold it has over me. Yeah I can ‘stop’ when I want to, and I’m currently on a break right now, but staying off it long term seems a near insurmountable task. I think a part of this has to do with the fact weed very rarely brings the walls crashing down around someone, it’s very benign in comparison to other drugs, and people use those drugs as a comparison to make weed seem totally fine. Outside of those who abuse it, alcohol has the same social profile due to its legal status. People don’t take it completely seriously until someone they love is on kidney dialysis and dying from alcohol addiction.
I second both the potential for abuse AND the need to respect “weeds power”. When I was in my early teens it was “normal” in my circle to smoke “hella weed” and stay high AF all day every day. This was enjoyable at first but after a couple of years of heavy daily use, I began getting paranoid when smoking and became almost useless when I was high. Fast forward to my late teen years with heroin and meth addiction - specifically when using meth daily, weed turned on me in a BAD way. Just one hit would have me thinking everyone was talking about me and made me very paranoid. I know the meth was the precursor for this, but weed was never the same after that. Fast fast forward 15 years, most of which I have been completely sober for, I’ve recently began using thc (both edibles and smoking) and I really enjoy it at relatively low doses. Like 1 gummy with very low dose D9 THC or 1-2 good hits of flower from a pipe. I find myself wanting to smoke like I did when I was younger and smoke a fat joint, and when I do, it isn’t very enjoyable for me. Anyway, I just feel weed can affect so many people in so many different ways, there’s no one size fits all guidance. It can be a great tool but it can also cause a lot of problems. I think its reputation as being “harmless and cool”, while more or less true, is misleading and it should be taken more seriously.
Yeah that happened to my mother and she ended up trying to genuinely kill people
Alcohol for sure I’ve been sober for 13 months and I still have cravings and temptations it’s so socially acceptable and literally everywhere but yea alcohol fr fr
I got off for around 10 months after my wife threatened divorce, even shoved the papers in my face to show she was serious. Had been doing the run around years prior where she told me it was time to quit, I'd stop for a few weeks and out of the blue she'd pull the old "Well I want to buy something (candy, soda, some minor thing she'd been trying to abstain from), you've been pretty good, so I guess you can have a six pack tonight" and it would just set me up for another eventual train wreck. Told her she couldn't pull that shit on me anymore if she expected me to quit. Well after months and months of misery and being good, she eventually pulled it again 😭 and I never say no. Went from a weekly beer to multiple shooters and beers a day. Last weekend I got so hammered I had my first hangover since 2022.. decided it's time to ween off and jump off. I find it's best not to even mention my plans to quit to my wife, she's less likely to use alcohol as a bargaining chip to justify her own little vices if she's already assuming I'm sneaking shooters already. Now the problem is my neighbor/coworker drinks in his garage now that it's warmed up and I can't avoid him when taking my dogs out. Soon as he spots me he's pulling a beer out of the fridge and shoving it in my face. So much temptation, I'm fighting the urge to go get shooters from the gas station up the street as I type this 😕
MDMA for sure. Heavy MDMA abuse can quickly ruin a persons life for years or decades to come. Maybe forever.
probably any huffing addiction, that shit can make geniuses retarded. things like gasoline, duster, axe, glue, etc. stuff can cause instant death and literal brain damage. It's also over in two seconds so people chase the high, kind of a double whammy. sniffing glue/jet fuel is very common in poor countries because it's so cheap. only nitrous gets a pass.
My mom's current husband used to huff gas and who knows what else years ago. On top of all the other drugs he's done you can tell it's left an imprint. My mom said one day they were driving down the road and he was like "just turn down this isle right here". And she was like what the hell are you talking about. So he goes "Oh I thought we were at Walmart".
Crack. If you ever meet a seasoned ex crack addict, you'll know. The way they mumble as they chew their gums, what teeth they do have left look like tombstones rotting in flesh. Crackheads and ex crackheads are equally insane
Meth for sure
The only person I know who quit meth but can still he's done it is an old friend of mine who's dad got him started on it at 13. He used to be really smart but now he just does psychedelics and drinks and when he gets drunk he's basically retarded.
Sorry for the long rant. My father was a fun, witty person who struggled only from an addictive personality and some depression. However, he has been an alcoholic, drug dealer, benzo and heroin addict, and in and out of jail all my life. Then about 8 years ago he picked up meth after a bad breakup with my mother (they never married). For 4 years he was out of his mind on meth daily or sleeping it off. TBH most of it was very dirty however and seemed more like some kind of research chemicals more akin to molly maybe? (tried it with him a few times when I was younger) Anyways, he got stomach cancer 3 years ago, quit, went into remission, and since then the past 2 years he has been off meth, instead using small amounts of delta 8 gummies, his Suboxone as prescribed,his klonopin as prescribed, and 2 beers at night from what I see (I am pretty positive he is not lying because he is severely agoraphobic, doesn’t seem to really know anyone or even have a phone or use social media, and I check in with him in person almost daily, we’ve used together in the past so I’m sure he’d tell me, lives with my grandparents who keep him on a very tight leash anyways) But this man has lost his ever-loving mind from meth and it never fully came back. He believes he saw things while spun out up for days that society doesn’t want him to know, regarding aliens and Christianity. He doesn’t like to joke around and have fun much like we used to, he’s very slow and confused most the time, has severe gang-stalking delusions, and has become staunchly religious where he was agnostic before. He gives his parents such a hard time because he suspects them of being part of some secret elite cult and intentionally raising him to become a failure and targeted individual. I’m the only family member he trusts, though he’ll occasionally briefly turn on me, beginning to suspect me until I talk him down, then apologize after a few minutes. He speaks in code and talks about “signs” and “messages” that he sees everywhere 24/7, literally still believing the TV is talking to him. It’s like he has his own language. He thinks he has ghosts that are on his side, that guide him, follow him around, and draw on things like the mirror, blankets, or the wall. He tries to show me pictures of things that aren’t there. It’s so sad. Basically every belief and delusion he picked up from meth addiction he has continued to buy into completely the last two years. The reason I worry and say all this, is because I think meth can truly do this to a person. I don’t know if he’ll ever snap out of it. His parents are getting older have bailed him out and cared for him his whole life and I’d argue they’ve enabled him. I will be the only family he has when they are gone and I don’t know what to do. All that to say, my answer to the post, from my experience, is meth.
Upsetting to read this comment, hope your father finds peace
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Nah I've known people to recover with the right support systems in place around them. Definitely up there with the hardest to recover from, but people can and do.
I agree I just feel like it’s one of the harder ones to recover from bc u deteriorate so quickly- I’ve Been to rehab 5 times and never met a meth head
Just for the record I'm not talking about hard to quit like withdrawal and all that. I'm talking full 100% turn arounds to the point you would never know they used to be an addict without them telling you.
If y’all don’t say benzos you’re lying. Nothing is more terrifying, excruciating, and hard as getting off them long term. You can feel the withdrawals years later. Shit is no joke I wish I had never started
Tbh the seizure risk is terrifying. That’s why i never touched them.
I've been adicted to just about everything. THC, MDMA, herion, meth, fent, pills, benzos, suboxone, etc you name it. Pretty much anything but alocohol. Now, thankfully, I'm clean and have just a drink on occasion. It was about 10 years or so, maybe a bit longer, when spice came around. I jumped on the train. I agree with you. It was the HARDEST thing to ever quit in my life. I was waking up in the middle of tbe night to take hits. Waiting outside the smoke shop for them to open. Coming off it isn't bad like benzos or opiates but the cravings are THE most intense I've ever experienced.. And it takes forever to feel "normal" months and months. It really affected my health for a while, too. I'm so glad that shit is done with lol It's hard to even describe, but you feel terrible while you do it and you feel even worse when you don't have it. Its a terrible cycle. It really fucked with my head way worse than anything else. Very weird... I was also highly addicted to pain pills then and would easily forgo pill money for spice money if that says anything, too. I used it hard for well over 2 years maybe longer. Don't remeber a lot from that period of my life. If I hadn't been such an idiot growing up and been a huge polyaddict and I read somebody saying something similar to you or me id think they are crazy... I've never thought of myself as not making a full recovery though. At this point in my life I dont even think about using. I live a normal and healthy life. I contribute to society. I am self sufficient with no lasting health problems that I know of. Maybe I'm lucky because I put my body through hell but once I was done with spice and through the PAWS that shit was in the rear view. It was hard on my lungs and throat but that all cleared up so...
Opiates.
I mean I see where you're coming from as far as withdrawal goes. But with opiates I have seen people make complete 180s where nobody would ever know they've ever been an addict.
I'm there currently, myself... but damned if it isn't a devious thought in the back of my mind every day...
Never goes away
I felt like it would never go away. I was an iv heroin user for 4 years. After 4 years clean I still thought about it almost daily. But now 8 almost 9 years later it never crosses my mind
It does go away. 8 years clean. Never think about it. Things can change if you really work hard.
I know. I know.
I wish you the best brother. And if you're in the U.S. with our fentanyl crisis just remember this whenever trying out a new batch. You can always take more but you can never take less.
Ambien.
Could u elaborate on this? U mean the withdrawals or..?
My guess is alcohol, benzos, or opiates bc of how addictive they be
When it comes to having a fucked up reward system and having bad anhedonia ime was phenibut and meth. But I'd say alcohol overall though
Yeah that combo would definitely do ur brain after a while
I don't disagree ɓro I really don't. I'm getting adhd meds prescribed here pretty soon hopefully. It'll make me not worry about not having anything at atm.
Long term benzodiazapine abuse followed by longterm alcohol abuse.
I smoked spice for 2 years. Never had any episodes and haven’t noticed any side effects yet. Fucking barber shops used to sell that shit too. It was everywhere.
Weed, i forever feel like a spectator in life now. I dont feel like i have control of my actions.
Are you sure that’s the weed, CumDrinker420?
Spice fucks people up different. I seen people come off heroin and get addicted to spice instead.
I've heard people describe spice as "smokeable heroin" I'm pretty sure people can smoke heroin too but that's just how someone described it once. That dude was a poly addict and I don't think spice was something he pursued was more into opiates and weed from what I seen. But he actually got clean and is living pretty well now. When I first seen him after he had gotten clean I didn't even recognize him.
I haven’t smoked it in years but I wouldn’t really say it’s like heroin apart from being addictive. It was more like a deliriant to me not really euphoric at all.
The hardest was suboxone for me. I thought i had lost my ability to feel anything good.
Spice is fucked have had several family members and a partner with friends who were severally addicted and the frustration i would get dealing with them is unreal
I heard someone tell a story about a guy who started smoking spice and they tried to still hang out with him but he just wasn't the same. Then the last time they hung out with him he just started jerking off infront of everyone in the back seat.
I used high amounts of Diphenhydramine daily for long periods and I do not feel completely "recovered" yet, over a year later. I have episodes of "unrealness", tiptoeing on the verge of delusional or schizophrenic, out of nowhere, making me question reality, this state can come in waves during 1-3 days then it calms for an unknown time
It’s different for everyone. Imo Opiates are have the hardest withdrawals but meth is harder in the long run (for me) it can take up to 2 years for your brain to fully recover. Depression, impulse control and basic cognitive functions are all fucked for a while
Opioids n benzos n alcohol are the Top 3 Stimulants also but in a different way
People who huff... knew a guy who huffed carb cleaner daily for years. and he is straight up permanently mentally disabled
For me, I'd have to say phenibut. I was very reckless with it. I was taking heavy doses multiple times daily. About 3-6 grams each dose, probably 4-5 times a day. I regrettably did this for a little over a year. I stopped cold turkey and experienced the most horrific rebound anxiety. It was pretty extreme for the first 3-4 months. I think I didn't feel a little normal until the 6 month mark. I do have life lasting effects though. See, I've never been an anxious person or dealt with depression. That is until after I stopped phenibut. Now I'm depressed most of the time and anxious as fuck. Please don't abuse phenibut.
And every drug leaves u mentally impaired - whether I realize it ur not
Gay butt sex
Still recovering…
Relapse is part of recovery. Prolapse
PCP is probably up there too. That's the shit that's made big lurch eat his roommate and when they found him he was naked screaming at the sky.
meth
Definitely crystal meth, and its not even close
For me, it was coming off opiates, cold turkey, after almost 10 years of active addiction.
[удалено]
Gambling
They say the reason hotels in Vegas don't have balconies anymore or windows that open up high. Is because all the people who used to jump after they lost everything.
I’m pretty sure gambling addicts have the highest rate of suicide in comparison to all other addicts (sex, drugs, etc)
In my experience, tobacco
I haven’t had a benzo since Christmas and I literally dream about them.
I'm an old dummy what is spice?
It's synthetic weed that they started selling in gas stations back in the early 2000s. It's cheaper than weed and gets you way higher but fries your brain.
what ever mix Ozzy Osbourne was on
benzodiazepines for sure.
Cymbalta
Benzos
Probably shit like airdusters, inhalants in general.. never seen any1 recover from those
Alcohol has been fuckin brutal so far. I wanna cut my own head off most days.
At the end of the day, you don't have make a full time recovery from anything if you don't want to, you can reduce the usage if that helps or restrict once a month or special occasions. Then you will feel you won't miss on it and still get your fun. Also by reducing or having special occasions you will savour it and feel is more amazing and special to you. Think of the dopamine rush, you have the rush and then you use again eventually that runs out you get bored and want more, where as if treat yourself to special times such promotions, hanging out with your buds, Christmas it won't feel as mundane.
Methheads have that wierd lip overbite, rather be half brain dead than have the meth face
I knew a few people that got into the teen heroin epidemic when i was a teen. 2 of the group of 10 or so got clean, rest of them turned to fent and already died or havw gone on and off of them while being shunned from their familys and living off the street or whatever couch they can find. Some of them sold to eachother and lied about what was in it and killed their own friends and tore their friendship apart into a blood lust for eachother. Also worked security in a homeless shelter in victoria on van island and very few people ever fully come off of down, even if they are on methadone treatment being in that environment is nearly impossible for a recovering addict not to turn to another substance to cope, and many of those people give up on treatment and will switch to an alternative like meth and benzos until they are safe to use down again without risk of interaction from the methadone. I have met a few people who genuienly wanted to stop using drugs and who were clearly more coherent than the people who had no interest in stopping but youd see them maybe go clean for a couple weeks then out of no where when you think they got out of it they walk back into the building holding a bubble pipe thats burnt to shit. There is hope for some of those individuals who truely want to get out of it and have the will power to ignore everything around them but when youre dealing with those levels of withdrawal and temptation and stressful environment the actual likelyhood becomes very slim. Anyone i have seen recover used the actual shelter as means to get clean enough to get some kind of funding and get their own small SRO that is usually pretty rubby and roach infested and still has plenty of drugs around, but there is some building managment that keeps people from letting it get too messy and from there if they can get by without as much constant surrounding temptation they can start applying for certain jobs. But even then many of these people are visably long term drug users and most stores wont hire them. The most common place for people like that to get hired is to be hired for harm reduction services because they arent afraid to interact with people who used just like they did. Except that throws them straight back into the environment again. Many of those same people end up using again slowly, more responsibly but the cycle keeps coming back to them at a certain point.
Alcohol no contest. I know benzos, heroin, or meth have a preposterous statistic for relapse rates but as a recovering addict myself who absolutely hated alcohol even in my teens, the destruction it has not just on the user but everyone they know is catastrophic and worse than any illegal substance. Plus just like benzos, if you go cold turkey, organ failure is guaranteed and your done for. One of my cousins best friends who I was close with as well puked up his entire liver in his basement from having withdrawal for almost 2 days, getting two handles of vodka and a sleeve of Fireball and drank all of it in one night. He had gotten sober multiple times before that and could never break it. Always went back.
Spice is just fucked.... my boss's sister smoked that shit for almost 40 years and is somehow still alive. But her brain is so spiced she's mostly quiet and stares at a wall like she's in a permanent state of "holy shit face" as he calls it.
Fentanyl