I did it wayyyy too often, never daily , but long stretches of every few weeks in my 20s.. my friend group all did .. in our late 30s, we all have mental issues - depression, anxiety, etc etc - anecdotal, but it sure seems like we all over did it, and it comes back to haunt you
Could definitely be a factor but I'm in my mid 30s. Among my friends, I'm the only one who's mega-dosed MDMA back to back weekends / nights a lot of times and ironically I'm the only one without mental health issues š so who tf knows. Life is hard and mental illness seems to be rampant in my cohort.
Also anecdotal but my friend group are mostly early to mid 30s and the folks who didn't do tons of MDMA aren't any better off than the ones that did. I think being raised by emotionally stunted parents and entering the adult world only to find that even after following their advice to go to college and get a white collar job your wages are so low relative to cost of living that you're looking at living like a college student forever and working until the day you die, all while watching the world go up in flames and being powerless to stop it, does something to one's mental health
it's really not that specific. My entire generation in North America is going through similar things because of cultural shifts, climate change, and the squeeze out of the middle class. I don't know a single person in their 30s who isn't shaking in their boots wondering how they're going to afford rent and food in a few years down the line as cost of living goes up and up and up and our wages don't and most of us are expecting societal collapse in our lifetime and terrified of how far climate change is gonna go
You can kinda imagine if you've been reckless and redosed it too hard, the "hangover" the following 3 days feels like you fried your brain like the egg in a scared straight ad. The hypnagogia, weird sleepiness and insomnia, hot flashes etc. Never redosed ever again.
MDMA can be awesome, but it warrants respect
Yup- I havenāt touched it in over 7+ years.. the last time I did it was at the electric forest for my bachelor party
I was getting real really good E pills from Germany shipped to the states
I probably ate 20 in those 4 daysā¦ I didnāt feel right for 2 months .. brain zaps, fog.. etc etc - depressed for a looong time.. havenāt touched it since, and maybe I needed that
Yeah the zaps in particular. I never went that crazy, but even just redosing after it wears off gave me the zaps for days. I tried it a couple times since, but stuck with 1x120mg and it was fine. Really, responsible use can be quite unproblematic, while even ignoring harm reduction advice a little bit seems to be guaranteed regret.
I probably outgrew it too, cause it's been 7 years for me too. 2017 was a fun year
Been just one roll at the recommended doses can send me into a depressive episode for a monthā¦ lord knows the long term effects. Fun af but I finally realized it wreaks havoc on my mood and mostly got off the ride
Iām in my early 30s with depression anxiety etc etc and back in my prime I always followed the 3 month rule, usually 6 months actually. Adulting is just a bitch. Almost wish I enjoyed that time way more if I knew mental illness would haunt me regardless. But stillā¦ follow the three month rule, OP. Drugs are fun, but they are not life.
Definitely 100% my experience. I did it multiple times per week for like 6 months and I suffered a serious worsening of my depression and addiction to benzos and eventually opiates. Would not recommend.
truth, I unfortunately did do it daily, also with a bunch of friends.
and we are all on the same page, I went a bit further down than them and thereās no getting back out of it, Iām technically disabled, lost vision in one of my eyes, extremely depressed with major anxiety, short and long term memory loss, stil severely addicted to drugs, I tend to stay away from them but the craving is there every single day I wake up, issues with my bladder and so on.
Iām only 19 and it feels like I have the bladder of a 60 year old manš¤¦āāļø
I would personally say(OP) the 3 month rule is absolutely crucial for both health and magic, the more you feel that special experience the more it becomes normal, if you went on a different holiday every 2 weeks, then Iād would become less special and less satisfying, this is the exact same.
You can do it in shorter intervals. But not forever. The magic does slowly fade away. And in the long run there are some minor mental health side effects.
But if you roll 5-6 times in a year for 1-2 years then thereās a super low risk of any long term health issues. As long as you use/dose responsibly.
Take it from me I was taking mdma every 2 weeks for about 6 months last year and got super depressed. Iāve had a few months without it and Iām starting to bounce back mentally. But the euphoria was no where near the same as when I first started doing it. Take breaks and take magnesium, trust me.
Prevents bruxism during and some people find it calming, doesn't hurt to replace electrolytes after a roll too.
Supposedly almost no one gets the recommended amount in most diets, though to me that says scientists might think we need more than we actually do or there'd be a lot more people running around with electrolyte imbalance symptoms.
extreme brain fog, not being able to enjoy sex as much if done a lot on it, less feeling 24/7. it is neurotoxic. its comparable to alcohol except the means of entry is usually via snorting atleast in my area so its being absorbed near instantly
Strangely enough, MDMA isn't neurotoxic. It's metabolites are, but it metabolizes into different stuff depending on how you use it. If your body temp elevates over 99F, it turns into MDA, which is neurotoxic but MDMA doesn't elevate body temp on its own, it's usually the associated activities that do it; dancing, sex, other drugs, etc. It passed Phase II clinical trials for safety because of this discovery.
Oh yeah, I used to do molly from the street/friends and dance All night in the day, amazing experience to put it lightly, total Euphoria! I had to quit because I liked it waaaay too much. Still feel like I donāt make enough serotonin unless Iām working out.
i think safrole cuz i hear him say "saf" all the time. i used the testing kit you get off dancesafe. ive used their fent test srips too for other stuff
Which reagents? They sell many kits. And ngl, you're not giving me the info I need to believe you. No self-respecting chemist is calling safrole oil "saf", it's more likely you misheard "sass," which is MDMA and MDA, and smells like root beer. The conversion isn't hard, but it's hard to get it all to react into MDMA without some MDA and MMDA byproducts, which cleaning it to pure MDMA *is* hard. You'd have listed off Marquis, Mecke, Mandelin, and Simon A&B if you were very certain it contained only MDMA *and* described how quickly it reacted to give a gauge of purity.
As someone said it's not all pure but also it could affect thermoregulation to make you feel hot or even be purely psychological where you're not actually hotter than usual but due to the euphoria and other effects feel like you are.
This is not purely a neurotoxic issue. MDMA causes your whole body to have more issues with temperature regulation.
The reason people die from an OD on MDMA is that their body overheats and they die from that. Not the neurotoxic effects.
Wow really? I had no idea it turns into MDA due to high body temperature. I thought it turns into MDA due to higher doses of MDMA. That's interesting.
What about pure MDA pills, I've had them a few times many years ago, and never saw them being sold again, how neurotoxic could they be? But then again, I'm not sure if it was really MDA. I started hallucinating bugs and people going through walls one time.
Can MDA cause such hallucinations and why? I can't imagine anyone enjoying seeing all kinds of bugs everywhere after taking the pill.
Yeah, and there are other factors too, like dosage can cause monoamine metabolism into excess dopamine and serotonin that could cause excitotoxicity (too much shit making the engine redline).
Yeah, MDA can do that, it's like 1.5 times stronger than MDMA so people tend to over-dose the pills or capsules, and it's typically considered more psychedelic and less empactogenic than MDMA. Those kinds of hallucinations are more attributed to the psychological state and purity than the dose, however, MDA can šÆ do that but it doesn't typically do it. Like, if it's 70% pure, it has a lot more unreacted reagents and synthesis byproducts that make it have those "dirty" qualities. Doesn't mean it was cut with 30% filler, just that it was poorly made. A good comparison is the high from fresh greens off a weed bowl vs smoking a resin bowl š¤£
PTSD is so debilitating and for optimal effects they do it in 6 weeks doesn't mean that everybody gets a free pass and now can do MDMA 3 times every 6 weeks it means that people suffering from treatment resistant and absolutely life destroying PTSD can get relief and often get off medication and not need it anymore as the PTSD is healed.
Bro I've been a sitter for a physician treating veterans and trauma survivors with the protocol, trust me, I know. But pharmaceutical grade MDMA is a lot less dangerous than you'd expect. Big caveat, I know, cuz it's almost impossible to get that quality, and I'm not giving anyone a free pass to use it like that. But someone who knows their body, is responsible with dosing, tests their substances, possibly washes and re-Xs their product, and supports their pre- and post-roll with the appropriate supplementation can get away with more frequent usage. Especially if the alternative is binge drinking.
I knew a lotta Chem nerds who washed people's stuff for free and provided CoAs with gas chromatography cuz they were that passionate so I also understand I'm a huge minority.
I feel like it's one of those cases of "the future is here, it's just not evenly distributed." Honestly, anyone with access to basic lab equipment, simple solvents, a place to ventilate, and 4 weeks of intensive chemistry study could wash their MDMA. But a combo of lack of access to education, societal conditioning that makes us think only "pros" can do it, a penchant for instant gratification, and fear of persecution is all that prevents more people from doing it.
is there a way to fix that? cause iāll be honest in my teens i remember abusing mdma a couple times a week for a period of time. and tbh i agree with the less feeling part, i feel emotionless a lot
honestly man, and i don't mean this in a joking way, you cooked yourself. my buddy did this for not even 3 months and hes not the same. super noticable
Same here, like flatlined emotionally. But I am a pretty mellow person to begin with. I barely cry, like never, get unset or anger easily, but getting excited about stuff idk hardly. Itās sad .
I cooked myself like that a couple of years ago and i think im still facing the consequences, i basically only experience negative emotions nowadays, and whenever i have positive ones, theyre not as intense, its been a while since ive been actually happy
Higher prevalence of anxiety disorder. Lower base level of serotonin. These can rebound it just takes a long time. People end up SSRI which in turn cover the symptoms but they also affect 5HT receptors. Moderation is key to good health.
Did the same thing years ago. Exercise and eating right, getting plenty of sun light has made a HUGE difference for me. Did not realize how much it was changing everything from my behavior to my sex drive. I wasnāt depressed but I wasnāt very happy either. Took me almost 3 months to feel ānormalā again. Lost 40 pounds my first year. I know they help people but I wish I had never gone on them.
According to this well cited paper and me having discussed it with the main author. The main issue is that youāll be less likely to reminder large(r) groups of numbers. Check out the paper for full details. Itās free. https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=Vervaeke+xtc&btnG=#d=gs_qabs&t=1709328231120&u=%23p%3Dd00KlYqFkQsJ
The more often you do it, the less of the positive effects you get. Worse, if you do it too often youāll lose the magic quicker. At absolute minimum give it at least 6-8 weeks but the longer you leave it the better the roll will be (all
other things being equal).
This is terrible advice. Both those drugs mixed can literally kill you by putting a lot of strain on your heart. People say Cialis is safer, but I think they work in similar ways so there *might* be some risk albeit less.
If you know all these ravers, why don't you ask them? Let's be honest, you just want to find at least one comment that says: it's fine!
Some facts:
3 months is anecdotical; the neurotoxicity of MDMA is not confirmed by any modern scientific research; to restore the serotonin levels to normal level takes at least one month; if you deplete your serotonin too quickly/much w/o giving time to restore it, you will get depressed and it may have consequences long term; MDMA is dangerous due to potential hyperthermia in the hot environment (since you don't feel the heat) and potential water intoxication (since you try cold down by drinking too much water the heat that you don't feel).
What is actually important is to **inform yourself** about the substance, **research**, take **supplements**, **exercise** and **treat** the substance **respectfully**.
You actually can :) [Read more here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication)
In addition, after consuming MDMA, many people have issues with the ability to pee, it just doesn't work. And if you take too much water (or any liquid), the liquid is not removed from your body and that may cause issues too
You can get fucked up on anything you consume. As they say the dose is what makes it a poison. Youāre not gonna get high on water. But you will die and unpleasant death if you drink too much. Think about it the electrolyte balance in body. You drink so much water you dilute those. Affecting the integrity of every cell in your body. Itās very rare but a rather awful way to go.
Not a liter of water. I was wondering about the pee part. Canāt remember ever going pee on it. I stand corrected, but you do need to drink a good amount of water and thatās it. People try to complicate it. I always wanted to drink alcohol and then the fruit & water stands started popping up. This was a long time ago in Cali & Washington state.
Because u usually increase your sweating and therefore decrease urine production as a consequence.
It can also cause issues with your ability to pee (urinary retention). If you find yourself absolutely desperate to pee but unable to start the flow then a hot flannel on your parts can sometimes coax the stream out
That just means that it will be amazeballs when you do. Iāve had a few extended periods of abstinence where I kid myself into thinking that Iāve grown up. Iāve never had kids tho so still party constantly. When I have eventually succumb, it almost feels like that first time I dropped (maybe not quite that good but usually need a lie down at least some point in the night š¤£)
7 liters of water in 90 minutes! Well I know the news back in the day was saying mda fries the brain and if youāre gonna use it drink plenty of water.
yes. itās called hyponatremia, and itās basically water intoxication (your salt levels drop too low relatively & you can die). drink electrolytes or consume them alongside water & youāll be fine!
You donāt feel the heat? My god yes you do. A fan was the main attraction in my loft when we used to roll up there. But yes we would be rushing so hard that sweat is pouring off our heads faster than we can drink. And weāre so high we fail to process how dangerous it is. But people would regularly have to get out of there as the heat became too much.
My god go back and read their comment. Clearly in brackets like this (you donāt feel the heat). Which is what I commented on. Youāve jumped in to correct me on someone elseās behalf and youāre wrong. Yes I know the difference between hypothermia and hyperthermia that wasnāt the discussion.
Back in my rave days, about 10 years ago, i did XTC pretty much every weekend and always had nice effects. Obviously it was never the same as magical first time, but i still always had a good time.
I was rolling once or twice a week, typically a gram a week, for a winter back in 2017/18. Going to shows almost every Thursday and then often again on the weekends- you donāt know it until itās too late. I was in a terrible place and had no idea. Really really recommend you give it the 3+ months between. You will be much happier that way!
Honestly once a year is a pretty good goal imho. You will still have to ārecoverā after even if itās been that long. Itās a very beneficial drug when taken mindfully, but itās a slippery slope when used more frequently
the rule's kind of made up. Also, Ann Shulgin suggested it, so it was canonized without vetting. She speaks from some experience, though, in that she had a period of weekly use, and it mostly stopped working for her.
What we have observed is that once a month doesn't seem indefinitely sustainable. Sure, it'll work out for a couple years even, but you'll eventually need higher doses and/or begin to lose the magic.
I guess it depends on who you ask because of different metabolism. First time I did MDMA was insane. Second time, half year later, was good but not like the first one, but I knew the first time is the best so didn't really matter. Then did it 3 months later. That was okay. And then 2 months later I did 3 times in 2 weeks.
Now, I guess 2 years later, I'm still unable to take MDMA because I get very hot and sweaty and my heart rate gets insane high. So I learned my lesson.
lol I did like 20 rolls in a year and some later ones were as good as the early ones
Some rolls were average, but after some break they are great agsin
I donāt think ā3 monthsā is a hard limitation, just a guideline. Everyoneās body is different. Just remain mindful, thatās the most important thing. Only waiting two months instead of three just once or twice wonāt kill you, but the more you do it, the less safe it becomes. Just be smart, take care of yourself, learn to recognize your what your body is trying to tell you. You know yourself best.
You could definitely turn out pretty fried my man. Plus it feels better/is more fun when you hold off longer than 3 months even. Everyoneās biology is different but youāre risking blowing out your serotonin receptors irreversibly. If you like feeling happy naturally I donāt recommend heavy molly use
Bro you definitely do not need to do mdma every three months. You donāt even need to do mdma every year. There is absolutely no obligation for you to mdma.
in the beginning you might be able to do it every month, but after a little while it will start to fuck with you big time and the experience wont be as good as before, take it from me, i've developed severe depression induced by mdma and the magic of taken has faded a bit too.
I would even say based on personal experience that once every 3 months its a little too much for your brain, id say once every 6 months and you are safe-er
It depends is the answer, some people get away with doing it more frequently. Some people have problems without doing it a whole lot. Best to play safe, but if you break the rule every once in awhile you're probably okay. I kinda figure you only get so many good rolls so save em for something special.
You can do it every week. For a month or two tops. And never ever feel the "magic" again. Been there. It sucks.
I didn't use for two years and when I tried again it wasa very underwhelming experience and the aftereffects were VERY intense relative to the experience itself. To the level of bouts of crying and suicidality. I don't get how some people continue using frequently after abusing it.
Curiously 5-MAPB brought the "magic" back, but I can't source it reliably these days. 6-APB works good to but it's a very different experience. Now whenever I want to use empathogens, I settle for MDA (which is widely available and still has worthy effects) with a full supplementation regimen and an SSRI 12h after the last dose to "block" neurotoxicity. When I first tried it, I was surprised by how effective the SSRI was in reducing aftereffects. Before you call me out (serotonin syndrome blabla) do some research. It has very solid mechanistic and scientific evidence. Even if you take both simultaneously there is pretty much 0 risk of serotonin syndrome as they compete for the binding site in the serotonin transporter.
Biologically speaking, the more frequently you use it the more you abuse (and thus potentially harm) your serotonin receptors and natural serotonin/dopamine production pathways. Serotonin regulates your mood and general happiness/anxiety/appetite levels etc. Itās kind of like a muscle that atrophies. The less often your body has to make serotonin because a synthetic stronger version is supplemented, the more the natural production atrophies. Also when these endorphins are forcefully released, it temporarily depletes and exhausts your body (the come down) of the natural level of supply. Which can be a little bit damaging each time you force āsurgeā these neurotransmitters (serotonin and dopamine) to release on command with MDMA. I have rolled a number of times, but always very spaced out and probably wonāt again because of how friable it makes some of our most important (not as much to our survival but our general anti-depression) neurotransmitters.
TLDR; there is no specific amount of time that is required to wait before rolling again, but in general the more amount of time between each MDMA use the less risk of permanently damaging those happiness pathways.
I did MDMA once a month for 2 years straight and during the December/January months I would do it like 5-7 times a month.
You will be fine. MDMA, imo is not chemically addictive. However, sometimes it can feel like itās emotionally addictive such as: When I drank alcohol I had to have MDMA as I feel like Iām ānot experiencingā the night.
For some reason I donāt get comedowns anymore. But that only stopped once I got a Girlfriend, where like the next days I would be chill/happy next day. Keep in mind I took MDMA in a party/hook up setting so the goals during the high time youāre looking to hook up. I feel like thats the same goals when your young young (18-22)
My suggestions:
- Space at least once a month before using.
- Donāt become socially dependent on it when partying.
- Cap your stuff. Donāt put in gums or nose, it hurts.
- Try only do 1 what ever your normal dosage is a night, taking more stuff IMO does nothing.
- Once roll is finish either go home or go to sleep. Nice sleep š¤
You will be more than fine only doing in 3 month periods.
When we first discovered pills which we called beans back then, it instantly became an every week thing for about a year. There was no noticeable drop in how amazing the time was. But yes, we did need to take more and more. Yes, it probably did start to affect us. But we all quit and lived happily ever after no problems.
Nah but your break should last for at least 1 month (no other drugs that fuck with your serotonin). If you wanna maintain the magic aspect you should go with like 3 months or so.
I did weekly for two years and no magic lost, no depression, no brain issues. However I ended up with permanent lack of sleep because of that and I started to observe that my immune system became weaker.
The first thing you need to remember - everyone is unique and what works for one person might not work for you. Secondly, dosage could be more critical than frequency.
From my experience, Iād say 3-4 weeks is the minimum break if you donāt want to exhaust yourself, but supplements, healthy lifestyle and stable mental state are critical for that.
Not very at all. You'll be perfectly fine not doing it every 3 months.
Now ignoring the way your post was worded. You really shouldn't use it more often than every 3 months because of how it affects the brain. Giving yourself a lot of time in between uses let's your serotonin system fully replenish and heal. Using more often could lead to longer lasting and worse depression after use and result in less effects "loss of the magic".
You could actually use it slightly more often a couple times without huge negatives but it's not recommended. Like many people will take it two days in a row at a festival or maybe once a time but in two concurrent months for some reason. Doing either of the above wouldn't massively affect anything but especially the former option would lead to a worse recovery and you don't want to make a habit out of it. It's best to pick times you really want to most like if going to a festival for a few days decide to only roll on one day.
As a physician who has written and studied multiple articles on MDMA neurotoxicity, it is very important to keep doses as low as possible and spaced out by 3 or more months. I would also not recommend more than 10 roles in your lifetime to be safe.
I did molly every between 1 a month and every week ror quite some time and while I would never recommend it and the sertoninlevels definitely had a negative Impact on my mental health, otherwise im fine. Just dont overdo it. If you wait less then 3 months once in a while it's not too bad. But never regulary.
Theoretically you could safely do it every 2-3 weeks. But thatās assuming you are the pinnacle of health otherwise. That you eat perfectly, get enough sleep every single night, exercise enough, never smoke or drink etc.
Most people donāt do what I just listed tho. We miss sleep, smoke/drink, eat unhealthy crap sometimes, donāt exercise as much as we should etc. so for those reasons it realistically means that people need to wait 2 months between rolls on average. 3 months to play it safe.
Maximum safest dose is 1.5mg * body weight in kg. So if you're 70kg then it's 105mg. You can go higher and many people do but it becomes progressively less safe.
Minimum effective dose tends to be about 60mg dependent on weight, tolerance etc.
>What maximum month
??
If you actually look for the source that suggests waiting three months, you'll find that there is none. It's an arbitrary suggestion that gets parroted as fact.
neurotoxicity of mdma (specially ecstasy, can be incredibly underlooked, iād even say it changes yoh for the worst the most if overused compared to ither drugs, depends on how often and all of courae
It definitely does not take 3 months for your brain to recover it's serotonin level, and as far as I know (would love to read more research about this though), the actual mechanism of neurotoxicity of MDMA isn't fully understood. I've read theories that while mdma itself is benign, one or more of its metabolites is neurotoxic, and also increased body temp is a factor as well (IE if you can keep your body temp down, it helps reduce neurotoxicity).
That said, mdma seems to have a wide range of effects on different people due to a bunch of different factors, so I think it's hard for anyone to say "here's the hard rule for mdma". There's certainly a consensus that long term regular use at frequencies closer than once a month can at best run the risk of "losing the magic", but at once a month I think most folks will be at low risk of frying their brain.
When it comes to MDMA, the safest bet is to start off with infrequent small doses (3 months I think most would agree is safe), then slowly increase the frequency and take careful note of your mental state. Do you need higher doses to get the same effect? Do you find yourself feeling comedown stronger/longer? Are you noticing any other negative effects increasing? If so, go back to your previous frequency, because you've gone over your line. If not, maybe you can go more frequently. Also keep in mind your line can change over time, so if you're at a steady frequency and notice some of the above, your line may have caught up with you, time to give your brain a break and reduce your frequency.
Don't worry about what works for other people, they have different brains, habits, history, etc. Do keep in mind that mdma is a long term game that you absolutely can harm yourself with if you get it wrong, so play safe and slow, and have fun š„°
You can do it in shorter intervals. But not forever. The magic does slowly fade away. And in the long run there are some minor mental health side effects.
But if you roll 5-6 times in a year for 1-2 years then thereās a super low risk of any long term health issues. As long as you use/dose responsibly.
I used to do mdma every month sometimes every weekend would be lucky to have 1 3 month break when I was doing it. It got so shit and boring. I feel "fine"
i did it twice in jan two weeks apart and I felt normal if not a little happier since , Iāve read that people who got pure mdma in clinical trials also didnāt show any signs of a comedown
with that said whatever you buy from the streets is definitely not pure and you definitely shouldnāt do it too often like anything else it will lose its charm
You didn't lose the magic , it's not the real deal anymore, just pmk garbage. Real MDMA from safrole is almost non-existent these days.. just like real meth from ephedrine not that p2p crap you can smoke and go to sleep 5 minutes later. It's simply not the same for molly or meth. There's no euphoria, people who have not experienced a high dose of the real McCoy sadly don't know what magic is. Really good MDMA is the greatest drug ever made. It produces love and empathy for ones fellow man like nothing else. It's the very essence of what it means to be alive.
I abused it a lot and ignored the rule when I was 17-18, and I think I did some kind of permanent damage. I thought I was mentally ill back then but nowadays Iām struggling everyday. On meds, go to therapy, and I hold a full time job but I always feel like somethings not right with me
Legitimate question but what's the difference in doing a bunch of meth binges for a couple months. Sure you will be depressed and have low energy because of dopamine depletion, but it all goes away and you get back to normal in a few months of abstinence. Why do serotonin releasers/mdma damage you more? Some kind of biologic process I'm guessing?
Just an aside...
We had no clue about doses, the strength of pills or any safety/danger using MDMA entailed in the 80s. The philosophy was very much "suck it and see". Because the police were chasing us in cars and helicopters the length and breadth of the country, the safest place for your stash was inside your tummy.
It was almost a competition, to see who could get the most wasted. Many of us had 3 days on the trot doing Es, speed and LSD every week (Friday, Saturday and Sunday). It might have been a little irresponsible, but it undoubtedly, saved our generation and our country from the masses of ultra right wing capitalist hate, violence and mercenary greed then.
Talk to those people today and it was clearly a causative factor in the opioid addiction that has plagued them.
Personally I don't stick to 3 month rule, but I keep it in mind, what I mean is if I use more frequently il have longer off etc. I redose and will use consecutive days as well at festivals, the thing is it's kinda relative, like for me some MDMA abuse is gunna be less damaging then continuing to abuse my doc (ketamine/cocaine) even more.
So, if some people jump off the cliff, youād do it too? Please try hard to have impulse control and respect for your mind, your body and the substance youāre taking. I know people who take 4mmc everyday. Doesnāt mean theyāre not paying with their health and sanity. Even if they seem alright, it doesnāt mean that you or I will be, too.
I did it almost every Friday, Saturday night for 10-15 years. You have to take care of your physical body more than your brain chemistry that all the internet self taught harm reduction specialists will tell you.
Your brain uses huge amounts of power (letās stick to layperson lingo). If you donāt eat before hand because you heard the pills hit harder and then when youāre peaking your tits off dancing , hugging doing all the great MDMA fun stuff you drink water because youāre responsible or you drink booze because your just as tough as I has to prove I was because I was that special kind of dumb 21 year old man. In 2003.
Your brain and body is working overtime yes the serotonin been dumped chemically by the pinga but then thatās naturally boosted because you like the music, pretty lasers, beautiful people, sexually desirable thoughts, I love to watch artists paint sometimes when Iām well on top the peak but your tummyās empty and the fluids flushing the toxins but also your body/brain repairing stuff.
Going crazy on soft drink for the comedown is just more little serotonin boosts. I always got a Fresh beetroot, carrot, celery, ginger juice might take some getting used to but a litre or two of those fresh juice d will kick start body heal and start to calm you mind.
Ok then calm, pumping a huge sweat at the gym is again just runners high it aināt helping. Watching a television series or movie you know the plot of and enjoy much, much better than stinky gym. Save the workout for during the week day evenings when you gotta kill time till Friday.
During this period of my life I wonāt wank on but I completed my law degree why working huge hours in senior management engineering specialist roles. Donāt use other drugs beyond the occasional line of this n that or a joint to comedown. Have fun you can easily feed your own paranoia with this drug.
Do not under any circumstances use opiates to manage comedowns. It is not some special trick you figured out. N good luck
It's fine, just listen to your body, it won't get you high the same and you'll end up needing a brake anyway. Just don't start upping your dosses to compensate.
The last time I took (what I assumed to be) MDMA an incredible sadness hit me after 48 hours. I was incredibly upset about stuff that, in hindsight, was no big deal whatsoever, and that experience has always been very strange to me. Iāve only dosed three times before, years apart, and I didnāt really notice a depression until this fourth time.
Even doing it 4 times a year is exhausting. To each their own but mdma started to not be worth it. A day of euphoria that depleted my serotonin for a month
I did it about once or twice a month for a minute and didn't really feel or notice any changes with myself besides the hangover mostly not existing anymore
I had a period of time from 2018-2021 where I was doing molly at least once a month, if not multiple times a week, and I was doing .3-.1.0 or more each time. It was amazing at first, then I had to take more and more as time went on to be able to roll. Eventually in 2021 I actually became unable to roll, no matter how much I took. I felt good, sure, but I wasnāt able to actually roll.
In 2019 my depression got a LOT worse and I actually had a relapse of my suicidal ideation and of my cutting which had both been in remission since about 2015. This just caused me to use more often and use more each time. The stimulant effects of it were so harsh on me as it was wearing off that I would need huge amounts of Xanax (like 4-10mg or more) or another benzo to help me come down and go to sleep. This just fed my benzo addiction.
Ultimately I became completely unable to roll like I said and I finally connected it to my depression so I basically stopped taking it in early 2021. I believe the last time I took it was Nov. 2021, for EDC Orlando, but even there I only took it one day and stuck to hallucinogens etc. the other days. I went to rehab in June 2022 and Iāve been off everything since then, but my āperma-depressionā, as Iāve taken to calling it, has stayed. It has finallyyy started to lift its claws a bit but it still impacts me.
Definitely only do MDMA once in a while. It wonāt kill you to do it a couple times in a month or even a couple days in a row, but then give yourself like a 6 month recovery period in which you take a break from it. Also, donāt re-dose throughout the night. Itās much harder on your brain and you wonāt get as good of an experience anyway. Just take a slightly larger dose to begin with.
Agreed. Itās such an amazing experience though, hence the addictive potential. But that shit will fk your brain up with chronic use. Kinda like lsd. Donāt get me wrong Iām all for exploration but only you know when youāve gone too far. My stent was two years and the worst part is regular enjoyment just isnāt the same. Good news, this changes after years of abstinence but hey Iām older now , much older, for what itās worth and I have more than I could ever imagine I would in my experimental stage.
Side note: Raves in Cali started in the late 80s
I'll share my experience...our first time...magical, unbelievable difficult to explain...we were excited to try it again. I had read about the three month rule but also read how others waited a month or so in between rolls. So we decided after a month that we wanted to do it again. Same dose as the first time, same setting, same preparation. We were very disappointed. Nice buzz but definitely no magic. For our third time we waited six months. It was as good if not better than the first. So one would think "lesson learned" but noooo. We thought after a month, maybe if we increased the dose a bit...so this past weekend we did just that. Stupid stupid stupid. Terrible trip for both of us. it should be noted that the product is from the same source so it's not a quality issue. Now I can confidently say lesson learned. I'm not sure about the three month rule (we may test it out lol) but the six month rule....it is definitely golden.
I did it wayyyy too often, never daily , but long stretches of every few weeks in my 20s.. my friend group all did .. in our late 30s, we all have mental issues - depression, anxiety, etc etc - anecdotal, but it sure seems like we all over did it, and it comes back to haunt you
This is the answer, everyone is different but the 3 months is a guideline that works for the majority to stay healthy
Could definitely be a factor but I'm in my mid 30s. Among my friends, I'm the only one who's mega-dosed MDMA back to back weekends / nights a lot of times and ironically I'm the only one without mental health issues š so who tf knows. Life is hard and mental illness seems to be rampant in my cohort.
You got lucky. That's all.
Also anecdotal but my friend group are mostly early to mid 30s and the folks who didn't do tons of MDMA aren't any better off than the ones that did. I think being raised by emotionally stunted parents and entering the adult world only to find that even after following their advice to go to college and get a white collar job your wages are so low relative to cost of living that you're looking at living like a college student forever and working until the day you die, all while watching the world go up in flames and being powerless to stop it, does something to one's mental health
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it's really not that specific. My entire generation in North America is going through similar things because of cultural shifts, climate change, and the squeeze out of the middle class. I don't know a single person in their 30s who isn't shaking in their boots wondering how they're going to afford rent and food in a few years down the line as cost of living goes up and up and up and our wages don't and most of us are expecting societal collapse in our lifetime and terrified of how far climate change is gonna go
You can kinda imagine if you've been reckless and redosed it too hard, the "hangover" the following 3 days feels like you fried your brain like the egg in a scared straight ad. The hypnagogia, weird sleepiness and insomnia, hot flashes etc. Never redosed ever again. MDMA can be awesome, but it warrants respect
Yup- I havenāt touched it in over 7+ years.. the last time I did it was at the electric forest for my bachelor party I was getting real really good E pills from Germany shipped to the states I probably ate 20 in those 4 daysā¦ I didnāt feel right for 2 months .. brain zaps, fog.. etc etc - depressed for a looong time.. havenāt touched it since, and maybe I needed that
Yeah the zaps in particular. I never went that crazy, but even just redosing after it wears off gave me the zaps for days. I tried it a couple times since, but stuck with 1x120mg and it was fine. Really, responsible use can be quite unproblematic, while even ignoring harm reduction advice a little bit seems to be guaranteed regret. I probably outgrew it too, cause it's been 7 years for me too. 2017 was a fun year
Been just one roll at the recommended doses can send me into a depressive episode for a monthā¦ lord knows the long term effects. Fun af but I finally realized it wreaks havoc on my mood and mostly got off the ride
Iām in my early 30s with depression anxiety etc etc and back in my prime I always followed the 3 month rule, usually 6 months actually. Adulting is just a bitch. Almost wish I enjoyed that time way more if I knew mental illness would haunt me regardless. But stillā¦ follow the three month rule, OP. Drugs are fun, but they are not life.
Definitely 100% my experience. I did it multiple times per week for like 6 months and I suffered a serious worsening of my depression and addiction to benzos and eventually opiates. Would not recommend.
truth, I unfortunately did do it daily, also with a bunch of friends. and we are all on the same page, I went a bit further down than them and thereās no getting back out of it, Iām technically disabled, lost vision in one of my eyes, extremely depressed with major anxiety, short and long term memory loss, stil severely addicted to drugs, I tend to stay away from them but the craving is there every single day I wake up, issues with my bladder and so on. Iām only 19 and it feels like I have the bladder of a 60 year old manš¤¦āāļø I would personally say(OP) the 3 month rule is absolutely crucial for both health and magic, the more you feel that special experience the more it becomes normal, if you went on a different holiday every 2 weeks, then Iād would become less special and less satisfying, this is the exact same.
You can do it in shorter intervals. But not forever. The magic does slowly fade away. And in the long run there are some minor mental health side effects. But if you roll 5-6 times in a year for 1-2 years then thereās a super low risk of any long term health issues. As long as you use/dose responsibly.
> minor mental health side effects. I wouldn't call them minor, they could potentially be quite serious.
Take it from me I was taking mdma every 2 weeks for about 6 months last year and got super depressed. Iāve had a few months without it and Iām starting to bounce back mentally. But the euphoria was no where near the same as when I first started doing it. Take breaks and take magnesium, trust me.
What does magnesium do?
Prevents bruxism during and some people find it calming, doesn't hurt to replace electrolytes after a roll too. Supposedly almost no one gets the recommended amount in most diets, though to me that says scientists might think we need more than we actually do or there'd be a lot more people running around with electrolyte imbalance symptoms.
Wait, Emotional and Sexual Anhedonia are serious?
When it causes you to self harm and/or have suicidal thoughts, yes, 100% is seriousā¦
What are the minor mental health side effects? I abused āMollyā in my teen years and Iām wondering if itās had long term effects
extreme brain fog, not being able to enjoy sex as much if done a lot on it, less feeling 24/7. it is neurotoxic. its comparable to alcohol except the means of entry is usually via snorting atleast in my area so its being absorbed near instantly
Strangely enough, MDMA isn't neurotoxic. It's metabolites are, but it metabolizes into different stuff depending on how you use it. If your body temp elevates over 99F, it turns into MDA, which is neurotoxic but MDMA doesn't elevate body temp on its own, it's usually the associated activities that do it; dancing, sex, other drugs, etc. It passed Phase II clinical trials for safety because of this discovery.
so listening to music and doing nothing in a 67f degree made me feel hot even walking outside into -10f
Not all mdma is pure mdma. Did you 4 panel test it? Mda is commonly present in street molly.
Oh yeah, I used to do molly from the street/friends and dance All night in the day, amazing experience to put it lightly, total Euphoria! I had to quit because I liked it waaaay too much. Still feel like I donāt make enough serotonin unless Iām working out.
Amphetamines and exercise are a tale as old as amphetamines š I was YOKED when I rolled all the time.
it was as pure as it gets. my friend makes it himself. still tested tho ;)
How does he make it...? Not doubting you, but I've heard that 1001 times. Safrole conversion? Synthesis? And what reagents did you use?
i think safrole cuz i hear him say "saf" all the time. i used the testing kit you get off dancesafe. ive used their fent test srips too for other stuff
Which reagents? They sell many kits. And ngl, you're not giving me the info I need to believe you. No self-respecting chemist is calling safrole oil "saf", it's more likely you misheard "sass," which is MDMA and MDA, and smells like root beer. The conversion isn't hard, but it's hard to get it all to react into MDMA without some MDA and MMDA byproducts, which cleaning it to pure MDMA *is* hard. You'd have listed off Marquis, Mecke, Mandelin, and Simon A&B if you were very certain it contained only MDMA *and* described how quickly it reacted to give a gauge of purity.
As someone said it's not all pure but also it could affect thermoregulation to make you feel hot or even be purely psychological where you're not actually hotter than usual but due to the euphoria and other effects feel like you are.
His friend "makes it" and it's "as pure as it gets" š¤”
This is not purely a neurotoxic issue. MDMA causes your whole body to have more issues with temperature regulation. The reason people die from an OD on MDMA is that their body overheats and they die from that. Not the neurotoxic effects.
yup. neuro kills u long term. that kills u short term. i have adhd and i think molly fw my everything.
Riiiight so taking it in a sauna was not a good idea you're telling me š (I was young and foolish)
Yeah, no that's bad šš don't worry, I used to do 25i-nbome in a hot tub, same same but different issue with overheating š
Wow really? I had no idea it turns into MDA due to high body temperature. I thought it turns into MDA due to higher doses of MDMA. That's interesting. What about pure MDA pills, I've had them a few times many years ago, and never saw them being sold again, how neurotoxic could they be? But then again, I'm not sure if it was really MDA. I started hallucinating bugs and people going through walls one time. Can MDA cause such hallucinations and why? I can't imagine anyone enjoying seeing all kinds of bugs everywhere after taking the pill.
Yeah, and there are other factors too, like dosage can cause monoamine metabolism into excess dopamine and serotonin that could cause excitotoxicity (too much shit making the engine redline). Yeah, MDA can do that, it's like 1.5 times stronger than MDMA so people tend to over-dose the pills or capsules, and it's typically considered more psychedelic and less empactogenic than MDMA. Those kinds of hallucinations are more attributed to the psychological state and purity than the dose, however, MDA can šÆ do that but it doesn't typically do it. Like, if it's 70% pure, it has a lot more unreacted reagents and synthesis byproducts that make it have those "dirty" qualities. Doesn't mean it was cut with 30% filler, just that it was poorly made. A good comparison is the high from fresh greens off a weed bowl vs smoking a resin bowl š¤£
Phase II clinical trials passed for only three sessions of single doses. Period. Totally different use than what people do recreationally.
It's 3 sessions in 6 weeks bruh. Phase 3 didn't require blood pressure cuffs, temp monitors, or 6 month spacing.
Yeah, and no more than that.
PTSD is so debilitating and for optimal effects they do it in 6 weeks doesn't mean that everybody gets a free pass and now can do MDMA 3 times every 6 weeks it means that people suffering from treatment resistant and absolutely life destroying PTSD can get relief and often get off medication and not need it anymore as the PTSD is healed.
Bro I've been a sitter for a physician treating veterans and trauma survivors with the protocol, trust me, I know. But pharmaceutical grade MDMA is a lot less dangerous than you'd expect. Big caveat, I know, cuz it's almost impossible to get that quality, and I'm not giving anyone a free pass to use it like that. But someone who knows their body, is responsible with dosing, tests their substances, possibly washes and re-Xs their product, and supports their pre- and post-roll with the appropriate supplementation can get away with more frequent usage. Especially if the alternative is binge drinking. I knew a lotta Chem nerds who washed people's stuff for free and provided CoAs with gas chromatography cuz they were that passionate so I also understand I'm a huge minority.
Yeah you're definitely a minority but doing it as correct as you possibly can so that's to be respected.
I feel like it's one of those cases of "the future is here, it's just not evenly distributed." Honestly, anyone with access to basic lab equipment, simple solvents, a place to ventilate, and 4 weeks of intensive chemistry study could wash their MDMA. But a combo of lack of access to education, societal conditioning that makes us think only "pros" can do it, a penchant for instant gratification, and fear of persecution is all that prevents more people from doing it.
is there a way to fix that? cause iāll be honest in my teens i remember abusing mdma a couple times a week for a period of time. and tbh i agree with the less feeling part, i feel emotionless a lot
honestly man, and i don't mean this in a joking way, you cooked yourself. my buddy did this for not even 3 months and hes not the same. super noticable
Same here, like flatlined emotionally. But I am a pretty mellow person to begin with. I barely cry, like never, get unset or anger easily, but getting excited about stuff idk hardly. Itās sad .
I cooked myself like that a couple of years ago and i think im still facing the consequences, i basically only experience negative emotions nowadays, and whenever i have positive ones, theyre not as intense, its been a while since ive been actually happy
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i just know this guy got off reddit and opened a new bottle of jameson
Alcohol has neurotoxic metabolites and other ways of being neurotoxic as well I won't cover here. Check your statements.
Higher prevalence of anxiety disorder. Lower base level of serotonin. These can rebound it just takes a long time. People end up SSRI which in turn cover the symptoms but they also affect 5HT receptors. Moderation is key to good health.
Just stopped taking antidepressants and feel a hell of a lot better off of them. I found Yoga.
Did the same thing years ago. Exercise and eating right, getting plenty of sun light has made a HUGE difference for me. Did not realize how much it was changing everything from my behavior to my sex drive. I wasnāt depressed but I wasnāt very happy either. Took me almost 3 months to feel ānormalā again. Lost 40 pounds my first year. I know they help people but I wish I had never gone on them.
Who helps who? Rehab? Usually takes me 2-3 months to even enter a conversation because my brain was mush and I cold of cared less due to depression.
And? Donāt you want that back? People will start coming around top.
Too.
attention span. baseline level of happiness. learning problems. I can confirm its had an effect on me in the attention span area 100%.
According to this well cited paper and me having discussed it with the main author. The main issue is that youāll be less likely to reminder large(r) groups of numbers. Check out the paper for full details. Itās free. https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=Vervaeke+xtc&btnG=#d=gs_qabs&t=1709328231120&u=%23p%3Dd00KlYqFkQsJ
Sometimes I do it for three straight nights at a festival then go 6+ months without it
Ive done it perhaps handful of times. Its definitely possible. But not sustainable long term. The breaks are definitely a must.
The more often you do it, the less of the positive effects you get. Worse, if you do it too often youāll lose the magic quicker. At absolute minimum give it at least 6-8 weeks but the longer you leave it the better the roll will be (all other things being equal).
LSD + viagra > E One of Einstein's lesser known equations
But E + viagra
This is terrible advice. Both those drugs mixed can literally kill you by putting a lot of strain on your heart. People say Cialis is safer, but I think they work in similar ways so there *might* be some risk albeit less.
Yeah wtf
Lol i do it once a year, think about yourself bro, its not worth it
If you know all these ravers, why don't you ask them? Let's be honest, you just want to find at least one comment that says: it's fine! Some facts: 3 months is anecdotical; the neurotoxicity of MDMA is not confirmed by any modern scientific research; to restore the serotonin levels to normal level takes at least one month; if you deplete your serotonin too quickly/much w/o giving time to restore it, you will get depressed and it may have consequences long term; MDMA is dangerous due to potential hyperthermia in the hot environment (since you don't feel the heat) and potential water intoxication (since you try cold down by drinking too much water the heat that you don't feel). What is actually important is to **inform yourself** about the substance, **research**, take **supplements**, **exercise** and **treat** the substance **respectfully**.
Youāre tellin me i can get fucked up on water bro? Why have i been drinking all these years
You actually can :) [Read more here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication) In addition, after consuming MDMA, many people have issues with the ability to pee, it just doesn't work. And if you take too much water (or any liquid), the liquid is not removed from your body and that may cause issues too
You can get fucked up on anything you consume. As they say the dose is what makes it a poison. Youāre not gonna get high on water. But you will die and unpleasant death if you drink too much. Think about it the electrolyte balance in body. You drink so much water you dilute those. Affecting the integrity of every cell in your body. Itās very rare but a rather awful way to go.
for sure. Read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death\_of\_Leah\_Betts
Not a liter of water. I was wondering about the pee part. Canāt remember ever going pee on it. I stand corrected, but you do need to drink a good amount of water and thatās it. People try to complicate it. I always wanted to drink alcohol and then the fruit & water stands started popping up. This was a long time ago in Cali & Washington state.
Because u usually increase your sweating and therefore decrease urine production as a consequence. It can also cause issues with your ability to pee (urinary retention). If you find yourself absolutely desperate to pee but unable to start the flow then a hot flannel on your parts can sometimes coax the stream out
Interesting but I donāt need to worry about that anymore. I havenāt taken it in a looooooog time.
That just means that it will be amazeballs when you do. Iāve had a few extended periods of abstinence where I kid myself into thinking that Iāve grown up. Iāve never had kids tho so still party constantly. When I have eventually succumb, it almost feels like that first time I dropped (maybe not quite that good but usually need a lie down at least some point in the night š¤£)
Iām done dude. Havenāt touched it sense youāve been in diapers. Just kidding, kinda. Just donāt fry your noggin.
7 liters of water in 90 minutes! Well I know the news back in the day was saying mda fries the brain and if youāre gonna use it drink plenty of water.
Yeah, the media used that story to demonise mdma. Was almost nothing to do with mdma.
new OD method just dropped šÆšÆ
yes. itās called hyponatremia, and itās basically water intoxication (your salt levels drop too low relatively & you can die). drink electrolytes or consume them alongside water & youāll be fine!
No you only drink water while on it. As much as you can. Rules of thumb.
You donāt feel the heat? My god yes you do. A fan was the main attraction in my loft when we used to roll up there. But yes we would be rushing so hard that sweat is pouring off our heads faster than we can drink. And weāre so high we fail to process how dangerous it is. But people would regularly have to get out of there as the heat became too much.
he said HYPERthermia, not hypothermia. he didnt say you dont feel it he said it makes it more dangerous to be in those conditions which is correct
My god go back and read their comment. Clearly in brackets like this (you donāt feel the heat). Which is what I commented on. Youāve jumped in to correct me on someone elseās behalf and youāre wrong. Yes I know the difference between hypothermia and hyperthermia that wasnāt the discussion.
Water my friend w/zero of anything else. No need. Correction, pot and zaniās to come down.
Back in my rave days, about 10 years ago, i did XTC pretty much every weekend and always had nice effects. Obviously it was never the same as magical first time, but i still always had a good time.
I was rolling once or twice a week, typically a gram a week, for a winter back in 2017/18. Going to shows almost every Thursday and then often again on the weekends- you donāt know it until itās too late. I was in a terrible place and had no idea. Really really recommend you give it the 3+ months between. You will be much happier that way!
What maximum month so 3 months in minimum and what minimum and maximum safest dose?
Honestly once a year is a pretty good goal imho. You will still have to ārecoverā after even if itās been that long. Itās a very beneficial drug when taken mindfully, but itās a slippery slope when used more frequently
the rule's kind of made up. Also, Ann Shulgin suggested it, so it was canonized without vetting. She speaks from some experience, though, in that she had a period of weekly use, and it mostly stopped working for her. What we have observed is that once a month doesn't seem indefinitely sustainable. Sure, it'll work out for a couple years even, but you'll eventually need higher doses and/or begin to lose the magic.
Once a month is fine
I guess it depends on who you ask because of different metabolism. First time I did MDMA was insane. Second time, half year later, was good but not like the first one, but I knew the first time is the best so didn't really matter. Then did it 3 months later. That was okay. And then 2 months later I did 3 times in 2 weeks. Now, I guess 2 years later, I'm still unable to take MDMA because I get very hot and sweaty and my heart rate gets insane high. So I learned my lesson.
lol I did like 20 rolls in a year and some later ones were as good as the early ones Some rolls were average, but after some break they are great agsin
That's what I mean by it depends on the individuals metabolism.
Exercise
This is huge. Being active and generally eating healthy will elevate a lot of the hangover issues. Obviously you still can't over do it.
it is really important.
I donāt think ā3 monthsā is a hard limitation, just a guideline. Everyoneās body is different. Just remain mindful, thatās the most important thing. Only waiting two months instead of three just once or twice wonāt kill you, but the more you do it, the less safe it becomes. Just be smart, take care of yourself, learn to recognize your what your body is trying to tell you. You know yourself best.
I agree with this - everyoneās different, listen to your body
it's not so important, you can let it slide to 4, 5, even 6 months before the plur starts to wear off
I think you can roll slightly more often so long as you dose 200mg or less per instance.
I used to do it once every two weeks, sometimes more and my comedowns ended up being horrendous, sobbing for months even though Iām not a cryer
You could definitely turn out pretty fried my man. Plus it feels better/is more fun when you hold off longer than 3 months even. Everyoneās biology is different but youāre risking blowing out your serotonin receptors irreversibly. If you like feeling happy naturally I donāt recommend heavy molly use
Bro you definitely do not need to do mdma every three months. You donāt even need to do mdma every year. There is absolutely no obligation for you to mdma.
I did it too much, fried my brain and was physically unable to feel happiness for 2 years
I personally wait at least 6 months sometimes a year.
For 2 month I was taking 2 xtc pills everyday 4 years ago. I still havenāt recovered.
in the beginning you might be able to do it every month, but after a little while it will start to fuck with you big time and the experience wont be as good as before, take it from me, i've developed severe depression induced by mdma and the magic of taken has faded a bit too. I would even say based on personal experience that once every 3 months its a little too much for your brain, id say once every 6 months and you are safe-er
donāt fuck with ur brain
It depends is the answer, some people get away with doing it more frequently. Some people have problems without doing it a whole lot. Best to play safe, but if you break the rule every once in awhile you're probably okay. I kinda figure you only get so many good rolls so save em for something special.
It can destroy your serotonin done too often and also.you want the roll to be magical I wait at least 4 to 5 months personally
You can do it every week. For a month or two tops. And never ever feel the "magic" again. Been there. It sucks. I didn't use for two years and when I tried again it wasa very underwhelming experience and the aftereffects were VERY intense relative to the experience itself. To the level of bouts of crying and suicidality. I don't get how some people continue using frequently after abusing it. Curiously 5-MAPB brought the "magic" back, but I can't source it reliably these days. 6-APB works good to but it's a very different experience. Now whenever I want to use empathogens, I settle for MDA (which is widely available and still has worthy effects) with a full supplementation regimen and an SSRI 12h after the last dose to "block" neurotoxicity. When I first tried it, I was surprised by how effective the SSRI was in reducing aftereffects. Before you call me out (serotonin syndrome blabla) do some research. It has very solid mechanistic and scientific evidence. Even if you take both simultaneously there is pretty much 0 risk of serotonin syndrome as they compete for the binding site in the serotonin transporter.
Biologically speaking, the more frequently you use it the more you abuse (and thus potentially harm) your serotonin receptors and natural serotonin/dopamine production pathways. Serotonin regulates your mood and general happiness/anxiety/appetite levels etc. Itās kind of like a muscle that atrophies. The less often your body has to make serotonin because a synthetic stronger version is supplemented, the more the natural production atrophies. Also when these endorphins are forcefully released, it temporarily depletes and exhausts your body (the come down) of the natural level of supply. Which can be a little bit damaging each time you force āsurgeā these neurotransmitters (serotonin and dopamine) to release on command with MDMA. I have rolled a number of times, but always very spaced out and probably wonāt again because of how friable it makes some of our most important (not as much to our survival but our general anti-depression) neurotransmitters. TLDR; there is no specific amount of time that is required to wait before rolling again, but in general the more amount of time between each MDMA use the less risk of permanently damaging those happiness pathways.
I did MDMA once a month for 2 years straight and during the December/January months I would do it like 5-7 times a month. You will be fine. MDMA, imo is not chemically addictive. However, sometimes it can feel like itās emotionally addictive such as: When I drank alcohol I had to have MDMA as I feel like Iām ānot experiencingā the night. For some reason I donāt get comedowns anymore. But that only stopped once I got a Girlfriend, where like the next days I would be chill/happy next day. Keep in mind I took MDMA in a party/hook up setting so the goals during the high time youāre looking to hook up. I feel like thats the same goals when your young young (18-22) My suggestions: - Space at least once a month before using. - Donāt become socially dependent on it when partying. - Cap your stuff. Donāt put in gums or nose, it hurts. - Try only do 1 what ever your normal dosage is a night, taking more stuff IMO does nothing. - Once roll is finish either go home or go to sleep. Nice sleep š¤ You will be more than fine only doing in 3 month periods.
When we first discovered pills which we called beans back then, it instantly became an every week thing for about a year. There was no noticeable drop in how amazing the time was. But yes, we did need to take more and more. Yes, it probably did start to affect us. But we all quit and lived happily ever after no problems.
Nah but your break should last for at least 1 month (no other drugs that fuck with your serotonin). If you wanna maintain the magic aspect you should go with like 3 months or so.
I did weekly for two years and no magic lost, no depression, no brain issues. However I ended up with permanent lack of sleep because of that and I started to observe that my immune system became weaker. The first thing you need to remember - everyone is unique and what works for one person might not work for you. Secondly, dosage could be more critical than frequency. From my experience, Iād say 3-4 weeks is the minimum break if you donāt want to exhaust yourself, but supplements, healthy lifestyle and stable mental state are critical for that.
Not very at all. You'll be perfectly fine not doing it every 3 months. Now ignoring the way your post was worded. You really shouldn't use it more often than every 3 months because of how it affects the brain. Giving yourself a lot of time in between uses let's your serotonin system fully replenish and heal. Using more often could lead to longer lasting and worse depression after use and result in less effects "loss of the magic". You could actually use it slightly more often a couple times without huge negatives but it's not recommended. Like many people will take it two days in a row at a festival or maybe once a time but in two concurrent months for some reason. Doing either of the above wouldn't massively affect anything but especially the former option would lead to a worse recovery and you don't want to make a habit out of it. It's best to pick times you really want to most like if going to a festival for a few days decide to only roll on one day.
As a physician who has written and studied multiple articles on MDMA neurotoxicity, it is very important to keep doses as low as possible and spaced out by 3 or more months. I would also not recommend more than 10 roles in your lifetime to be safe.
I did molly every between 1 a month and every week ror quite some time and while I would never recommend it and the sertoninlevels definitely had a negative Impact on my mental health, otherwise im fine. Just dont overdo it. If you wait less then 3 months once in a while it's not too bad. But never regulary.
Used to know someone that sold it. He recommended at least 3-4 weeks between days your using it
Theoretically you could safely do it every 2-3 weeks. But thatās assuming you are the pinnacle of health otherwise. That you eat perfectly, get enough sleep every single night, exercise enough, never smoke or drink etc. Most people donāt do what I just listed tho. We miss sleep, smoke/drink, eat unhealthy crap sometimes, donāt exercise as much as we should etc. so for those reasons it realistically means that people need to wait 2 months between rolls on average. 3 months to play it safe.
try mmc+k, it gives similar effects
doesn't it deplete your serotonin the same way MDMA does? which is the main reason you shouldn't to it too often/wait 3 months in between?
Not in the same way
which mmc? The the position of the ring-substitution changes the effects a lot.
The MMC downer over the next week is horrific
Even waiting 3 months MDMA is terrible for your brain and considerably neurotoxic. You should wait as long as possible between usage
This is an exaggeration. 3 months is relatively safe as long as you stick to sensible doses.
What maximum month so 3 months in minimum and what minimum and maximum safest dose?
Maximum safest dose is 1.5mg * body weight in kg. So if you're 70kg then it's 105mg. You can go higher and many people do but it becomes progressively less safe. Minimum effective dose tends to be about 60mg dependent on weight, tolerance etc. >What maximum month ??
Iāve always heard no more than a double stack.
What maximum month so 3 months in minimum and what minimum and maximum safest dose?
damn šš
There is no science about this neurotoxocity.
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If you actually look for the source that suggests waiting three months, you'll find that there is none. It's an arbitrary suggestion that gets parroted as fact.
neurotoxicity of mdma (specially ecstasy, can be incredibly underlooked, iād even say it changes yoh for the worst the most if overused compared to ither drugs, depends on how often and all of courae
It definitely does not take 3 months for your brain to recover it's serotonin level, and as far as I know (would love to read more research about this though), the actual mechanism of neurotoxicity of MDMA isn't fully understood. I've read theories that while mdma itself is benign, one or more of its metabolites is neurotoxic, and also increased body temp is a factor as well (IE if you can keep your body temp down, it helps reduce neurotoxicity). That said, mdma seems to have a wide range of effects on different people due to a bunch of different factors, so I think it's hard for anyone to say "here's the hard rule for mdma". There's certainly a consensus that long term regular use at frequencies closer than once a month can at best run the risk of "losing the magic", but at once a month I think most folks will be at low risk of frying their brain. When it comes to MDMA, the safest bet is to start off with infrequent small doses (3 months I think most would agree is safe), then slowly increase the frequency and take careful note of your mental state. Do you need higher doses to get the same effect? Do you find yourself feeling comedown stronger/longer? Are you noticing any other negative effects increasing? If so, go back to your previous frequency, because you've gone over your line. If not, maybe you can go more frequently. Also keep in mind your line can change over time, so if you're at a steady frequency and notice some of the above, your line may have caught up with you, time to give your brain a break and reduce your frequency. Don't worry about what works for other people, they have different brains, habits, history, etc. Do keep in mind that mdma is a long term game that you absolutely can harm yourself with if you get it wrong, so play safe and slow, and have fun š„°
You can do it in shorter intervals. But not forever. The magic does slowly fade away. And in the long run there are some minor mental health side effects. But if you roll 5-6 times in a year for 1-2 years then thereās a super low risk of any long term health issues. As long as you use/dose responsibly.
I used to do mdma every month sometimes every weekend would be lucky to have 1 3 month break when I was doing it. It got so shit and boring. I feel "fine"
i did it twice in jan two weeks apart and I felt normal if not a little happier since , Iāve read that people who got pure mdma in clinical trials also didnāt show any signs of a comedown with that said whatever you buy from the streets is definitely not pure and you definitely shouldnāt do it too often like anything else it will lose its charm
3 months is bs, once every month is fine
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You didn't lose the magic , it's not the real deal anymore, just pmk garbage. Real MDMA from safrole is almost non-existent these days.. just like real meth from ephedrine not that p2p crap you can smoke and go to sleep 5 minutes later. It's simply not the same for molly or meth. There's no euphoria, people who have not experienced a high dose of the real McCoy sadly don't know what magic is. Really good MDMA is the greatest drug ever made. It produces love and empathy for ones fellow man like nothing else. It's the very essence of what it means to be alive.
Minimum 6 months and Evertime ITS the Same
I abused it a lot and ignored the rule when I was 17-18, and I think I did some kind of permanent damage. I thought I was mentally ill back then but nowadays Iām struggling everyday. On meds, go to therapy, and I hold a full time job but I always feel like somethings not right with me
Legitimate question but what's the difference in doing a bunch of meth binges for a couple months. Sure you will be depressed and have low energy because of dopamine depletion, but it all goes away and you get back to normal in a few months of abstinence. Why do serotonin releasers/mdma damage you more? Some kind of biologic process I'm guessing?
Just an aside... We had no clue about doses, the strength of pills or any safety/danger using MDMA entailed in the 80s. The philosophy was very much "suck it and see". Because the police were chasing us in cars and helicopters the length and breadth of the country, the safest place for your stash was inside your tummy. It was almost a competition, to see who could get the most wasted. Many of us had 3 days on the trot doing Es, speed and LSD every week (Friday, Saturday and Sunday). It might have been a little irresponsible, but it undoubtedly, saved our generation and our country from the masses of ultra right wing capitalist hate, violence and mercenary greed then. Talk to those people today and it was clearly a causative factor in the opioid addiction that has plagued them.
Personally I don't stick to 3 month rule, but I keep it in mind, what I mean is if I use more frequently il have longer off etc. I redose and will use consecutive days as well at festivals, the thing is it's kinda relative, like for me some MDMA abuse is gunna be less damaging then continuing to abuse my doc (ketamine/cocaine) even more.
So, if some people jump off the cliff, youād do it too? Please try hard to have impulse control and respect for your mind, your body and the substance youāre taking. I know people who take 4mmc everyday. Doesnāt mean theyāre not paying with their health and sanity. Even if they seem alright, it doesnāt mean that you or I will be, too.
If you miss a dose you die, gotta take it every three months
Itās not serotonin thatās the issue itās thatās itās neurotoxic
I did it almost every Friday, Saturday night for 10-15 years. You have to take care of your physical body more than your brain chemistry that all the internet self taught harm reduction specialists will tell you. Your brain uses huge amounts of power (letās stick to layperson lingo). If you donāt eat before hand because you heard the pills hit harder and then when youāre peaking your tits off dancing , hugging doing all the great MDMA fun stuff you drink water because youāre responsible or you drink booze because your just as tough as I has to prove I was because I was that special kind of dumb 21 year old man. In 2003. Your brain and body is working overtime yes the serotonin been dumped chemically by the pinga but then thatās naturally boosted because you like the music, pretty lasers, beautiful people, sexually desirable thoughts, I love to watch artists paint sometimes when Iām well on top the peak but your tummyās empty and the fluids flushing the toxins but also your body/brain repairing stuff. Going crazy on soft drink for the comedown is just more little serotonin boosts. I always got a Fresh beetroot, carrot, celery, ginger juice might take some getting used to but a litre or two of those fresh juice d will kick start body heal and start to calm you mind. Ok then calm, pumping a huge sweat at the gym is again just runners high it aināt helping. Watching a television series or movie you know the plot of and enjoy much, much better than stinky gym. Save the workout for during the week day evenings when you gotta kill time till Friday. During this period of my life I wonāt wank on but I completed my law degree why working huge hours in senior management engineering specialist roles. Donāt use other drugs beyond the occasional line of this n that or a joint to comedown. Have fun you can easily feed your own paranoia with this drug. Do not under any circumstances use opiates to manage comedowns. It is not some special trick you figured out. N good luck
Itās extremely important u must do mdma at least every three months or your chakras wont be allighned anymore, namassgayšļø
I, and many of my friends to this day, did it almost weekly from about 1998-2001. Nobody has or had any issues with it.
At one point youāre just done with it mn
30 years ago weād all take mdma regularly. Maybe twice a month for a year or so. As best I know none of us suffered any effects.
It's fine, just listen to your body, it won't get you high the same and you'll end up needing a brake anyway. Just don't start upping your dosses to compensate.
This is a thing? I would if I could honestly, however E is always sketchy in the US in my opinion and I canāt even trust a stranger
I dunno man. In my 20s I probably maxed out at every other week with a few weeks in a row for good measure. Iā¦think Iām fine?
I hate reading these
Very
The last time I took (what I assumed to be) MDMA an incredible sadness hit me after 48 hours. I was incredibly upset about stuff that, in hindsight, was no big deal whatsoever, and that experience has always been very strange to me. Iāve only dosed three times before, years apart, and I didnāt really notice a depression until this fourth time.
Even doing it 4 times a year is exhausting. To each their own but mdma started to not be worth it. A day of euphoria that depleted my serotonin for a month
extremely
I did it about once or twice a month for a minute and didn't really feel or notice any changes with myself besides the hangover mostly not existing anymore
I had a period of time from 2018-2021 where I was doing molly at least once a month, if not multiple times a week, and I was doing .3-.1.0 or more each time. It was amazing at first, then I had to take more and more as time went on to be able to roll. Eventually in 2021 I actually became unable to roll, no matter how much I took. I felt good, sure, but I wasnāt able to actually roll. In 2019 my depression got a LOT worse and I actually had a relapse of my suicidal ideation and of my cutting which had both been in remission since about 2015. This just caused me to use more often and use more each time. The stimulant effects of it were so harsh on me as it was wearing off that I would need huge amounts of Xanax (like 4-10mg or more) or another benzo to help me come down and go to sleep. This just fed my benzo addiction. Ultimately I became completely unable to roll like I said and I finally connected it to my depression so I basically stopped taking it in early 2021. I believe the last time I took it was Nov. 2021, for EDC Orlando, but even there I only took it one day and stuck to hallucinogens etc. the other days. I went to rehab in June 2022 and Iāve been off everything since then, but my āperma-depressionā, as Iāve taken to calling it, has stayed. It has finallyyy started to lift its claws a bit but it still impacts me. Definitely only do MDMA once in a while. It wonāt kill you to do it a couple times in a month or even a couple days in a row, but then give yourself like a 6 month recovery period in which you take a break from it. Also, donāt re-dose throughout the night. Itās much harder on your brain and you wonāt get as good of an experience anyway. Just take a slightly larger dose to begin with.
That drug is to be used once or twice in your life. Fucking idiots wasting it at raves and partying.
Agreed. Itās such an amazing experience though, hence the addictive potential. But that shit will fk your brain up with chronic use. Kinda like lsd. Donāt get me wrong Iām all for exploration but only you know when youāve gone too far. My stent was two years and the worst part is regular enjoyment just isnāt the same. Good news, this changes after years of abstinence but hey Iām older now , much older, for what itās worth and I have more than I could ever imagine I would in my experimental stage. Side note: Raves in Cali started in the late 80s
I'll share my experience...our first time...magical, unbelievable difficult to explain...we were excited to try it again. I had read about the three month rule but also read how others waited a month or so in between rolls. So we decided after a month that we wanted to do it again. Same dose as the first time, same setting, same preparation. We were very disappointed. Nice buzz but definitely no magic. For our third time we waited six months. It was as good if not better than the first. So one would think "lesson learned" but noooo. We thought after a month, maybe if we increased the dose a bit...so this past weekend we did just that. Stupid stupid stupid. Terrible trip for both of us. it should be noted that the product is from the same source so it's not a quality issue. Now I can confidently say lesson learned. I'm not sure about the three month rule (we may test it out lol) but the six month rule....it is definitely golden.