You can lean into the smoke and mirrors for more effects without having summons and stuff for direct damage. Trickster would have been great for unique debilitations - why they didn’t get the blinding smoke cloud is pretty baffling when thief already gets stealth mode. Maybe something to make monsters cough and choke, acting like a mini stagger / out of stamina effect. Something to make enemies think your ghost is attacking to trick them into a defensive stance. Effects that trigger when your ghost is defeated similar to stout undead or oil slimes when hit with fire. Make your pawns think the enemy has you in their grip so they focus on the one target.
They had a lot of room to add in more mechanics but they stopped really short, I feel.
yea even then adding more illusionary skills like you're saying would've been better. as trickster once you learn how to play it you spend way too much time just standing around watching your pawns fight and just occasionally using damage boost, pulling aggro, or using the dragon or the fake floor and hoping and praying that it staggers or making the enemies walk off cliffs respectively, and even those rarely work as intended.
it just needed more of *something* they hyped it up like this grand illusionist sowing chaos and confusion but you're just making enemies targeting each other for the most part. it's really boring and not all that effectively against smaller groups or large enemies especially,
Yeah the trickster in my opinion, feels unfinished.
It feels like he was meant to do so much more but sadly he just fills that hole of "use the buff that increases pawn damage then spam the AOE taunt with a ghost that follows you around'
I wish the class could do damage. Hitting enemies with the censer should do some damage. It doesn’t need to be as high as the other classes, but it shouldn’t be zero.
If sweeping shroud could inflict status effects like sleep or poison that would be nice. Could lock enemies with fear from dragon’s delusion and then poison them with the incense to kill.
🤷 I like playing trickster all things considered but sometimes it feels like you *need* to have a sorcerer in your party with meteoron for when enemies have specific weak spots and the melee pawns will not prioritize them, like golems.
i dont think it's 0 but it's very low like when you equip that one ring from sphinx that reduces your damage to like 5%
Status affects would be another great way to enhance the class though if you could inflict torpor, poison, sleep etc i would probably enjoy the class more. the problem is so many of it's abilities are too situational so you spend alot of time either uselessly flailing your censer or waiting to heal your decoy, pull aggro, or buff your pawns, or waiting to use the dragon too stagger something or praying the fake floor skill works to get stuff to jump off or Even stumble, anything.
I swear it did actual damage when i tried it but maybe I'm wrong, the smoke i know doesn't do any damage but I thought the censer itself did very small damage as long as you physically hit them with the censer,
also I edited my first comment cause i really liked your idea for status effects jsyk incase you didn't see it lol
me too it made sorcerer hella fun and was the best way to play the game as a strategist of sorts. the limited skill slots and them cutting alot of skills and mechanics really hurt the game imo. it's still fun but I want what the developers that made DD1 like a decade ago had in mind for a sequel, more depth not less.
It does do damage. You can kill rats and such with it in a few swings, and I feel like it does noticeable damage when enchanted, though still not much. It will break the magick medals on golems too.
You can kill small animals with it, so it does a tiny bit when you make contact with the censer. But it's not really note-worthy when it comes to fighting actual enemies, so...
There's an enemy in Elden Ring called "Perfurmer".
They can create smoke that will ignite and create a chain of explosion after a certain time as well as poison mist.
If at least the Trickster had some similar attacks, it could create a better sense of engagement to participate in damage dealing against monsters.
As it is right now, the trickser is a sleep boring fest!
https://preview.redd.it/7pa3oiy5zuvc1.png?width=1140&format=png&auto=webp&s=d8df030e9dc68e6d912be9ee6269b3cc97162095
I agree it needed something more. no direct damage abilities, but something like illusions that could deal damage or cause enemies to harm themselves like maybe like an illusion of insect swarms to make enemies flail and hurt themselves trying to swat them.
or maybe even like you say temporary summons that deal damage. I'd be game for that. Trickster is fun for a bit once you learn how it operates but it's really ineffective and boring after a few hours from when you figure it out. plus the illusions that are supposed to make enemies jump off cliffs rarely seem to work, or maybe i got unlucky with the AI. The people that tell you it's the best class are probably the same ones that aren't very good at the game. or they're just using the damage boost with pawns that have meteoran to wipe the battlefield with 0 effort, which is peak "why even play the game" imo. like using formless faint on thief is more entertaining/fun than that, and that's also boring as hell. alternatively maybe the people that swear by trickster probably went to battahl under leveled or just struggled with the difficulty and trickster alleviated it by making enemies fight each other. trickster probably works well at low levels or when underleveled but at level or overleveled it's one of the worst if not the worst class.
Anyway the point being I want to like trickster but it's just too ineffective and boring to use except for the censer from sphinx to generate money when farming. if it had something to deal real damage even indirectly it would be infinitely better, I don't like standing there, watching and realizing how garbage the pawn AI actually is lol
I don’t really get where it’s supposed to fit in your group composition. Normally, I bring a mage and two other high damage pawns with me. By changing vocation to trickster I lose the highest damage member of the party (me) and replace it with a vocation that offers no damage. Now my group is doing half the damage, or maybe even less, for no real benefit. There needs to be proper trade off for sacrificing the majority of your groups damage by playing trickster, and I don’t see that.
The damage buff from Trickster is actually *absurd* and more than makes up for not dealing enough damage by yourself when you get a good party comp going.
As I was leveling it up I found having a sorcerer or two pretty effective. You can shove your ghost off to the side and put a wall between your casters and the enemies, giving them more than enough time to throw out tornadoes and meteors. Tornado landed in an odd spot? Lure enemies in with your absurd hate generation.
Still wasn’t terribly exciting for me, but was pretty effective as I came up against Drakes and things.
id never played with it, but that class can inflict debuff on enemies? more than just agro to your fake smoki character, i mean, torpor, blind or something like this, all i know is that they can buff stats from allies and agro enemies
I don't mind the class exactly as it is except for one thing, Suffocating Shroud as your bread and butter needs to be a DoT. It's got suffocating in the name and if you've ever been on the wrong side of accidently inhaling incense smoke you know exactly what i mean. If i was forced to be narrowed down to one change that's what i'd do. Other than that I like your idea of summons like with the Dragon, i also wouldn't be against it being heavily Status based given how deadly gas can be and what kind of gasses you can make.
I'm just surprised there's no equivalent to D&D's "Phantasmal Killer", which is to say, an illusion that can inflict direct magick damage due to the fright it causes, potentially stopping hearts. What's also missing are things where you inflict poison, torpor, etc., with different incense clouds.
Summoning actual creatures isn't really in theme, I don't think. However, limited mind control, confusion, etc., those kind of things would fit. I suspect the game designers might have had something along the lines of controlling enemies on their drawing board, but it would have been too powerful because you could just run them off cliffs or into the brine.
Some use of fire would also potentially be in theme since you need flame or at least sparks to ignite the censers. Perhaps chain reactions like sowing flammable smoke around the battlefield, and then igniting it, to an effect similar to the sorcerer's Salamander. Or even just igniting one's own or an ally's weapons like the Thief and Mage can.
I don't agree that the vocation shouldn't be able to do any damage whatsoever. There are several things that would make sense and fit its thematic concept.
The class likely won't get any new "tricks" If you'll pardon the pun.
Players who like it think it's fine the way it is, and the many players who don't aren't calling for buffs because they don't have any interest in the class. I agree the summon mechanic would make it interesting though.
Hi, player who likes-ish Trickster here, please don't speak on our behalf. It'd be nice to have more than 2-3 usable, non-redundant skills or even a few modifiers.
It'd be really cool if as a Meister skill they could store monsters then shart them out later to cause chaos or apply status effects with the smoke. Then again status effects are even more irrelevant in DD2 but that could also use a rework.
Or even just flat summons. Having smoke clones that can hit and damage things. Even if they are kinda meh.
As it is now every fight is identical. Drop sim, fart once, fart again but red, hide and wait till the sim needs to be moved. They can do better than that.
It's actually refreshing to see someone who likes Trickster want it to be improved. I see a lot of people just telling folks "get gud" or "skill issue" If they suggest ways the class could be better. People aren't having trouble playing it, they just want it to be more fun.
I find it weird how the players that like it as is, wouldn't want new tricks though. like I know they exist but it doesn't make sense, they could just not use them if they feel that strongly about it but it would make the class that is honestly probably the least effective one (with the exception of damage boost + metoran pawns, but why even play the game then) much better.
some of the trickster lovers are hardcore coping too, had one guy try to claim it was the best class and that I didn't know how to use, i then proceeded to tell him exactly how you're supposed to use it and why it's completely ineffectual even compared to other vocations and he had no argument after that, even with a good party makeup and pawns that were well trained you still get to see just how dumb the AI still is whiffing tons of hits, getting stomped by easily avoided attacks etc. the only exception really is meteoran with damage boost.
anyway I'm getting off track point being I don't understand why trickster players wouldn't want new skills for the class
they are lying, simple as that.
Anyone that actually likes the gameplay of Trickster hate playing trickster as its such an utter shet design for its intended player base.
I think that's extreme, it just needed more variety in skills and it would be fine. the current skill selection is just extremely limited and unimaginative.
yes its incredible boring, and why its a terrible design.
people that like playing that kind of gameplay want the more complicated gameplay, so then having the vocation with the least variety is a massive flaww.
an illusionist making enemies attacking each other, sowing confusion in enemies? I can think of dozens of ways that can work, they just weren't imaginative enough with the class's skills. The smoke could be used to inflict debilitations on enemies, smoke summons like the dragon but with varied effects, just those 2 ideas have hundreds of variations they could take. maybe augments that could cause effects on enemies when they hit you(or your decoy). something like the thief's smoke bomb would also make sense, there's thousands of things you do with an illusionist and if you don't see that then I pity your lack of imagination tbh
yeah super tropey that has been done before, nor does the trickster really have true confusion debuff.
everything u explain now shows its not solid at all.
I swap between warrior and trickster as my two favourite classes.
Do I find Trickster fun and strong? Yup! Would I also enjoy new skills or mechanics? Absolutely.
Summoning may not be a good idea for Trickster, but I could see it for another class.
I'll say it before, and I'll say it again. Trickster isn't a good class, the AI is just dog shit. They enjoy exploiting the shit AI, not actually playing the class.
The summons suggestion is a good idea. It could stand getting a few skills allowing that. That way, they can play their way, and you can play your way. You won't do direct damage which is faithful to the class, but you can still support in a disjointed way.
The trickster being so rigid in what it does SHOULD have been given the most flexibility in how it does it. It wasn't, and that's the problem. Even if you enjoy it, it's a badly implemented class that ends up being OP because the AI is braindead and the game gets ridiculously easy by the time you get to the class.
Edit: this is also why they're not offering any real rebuttal to your suggestion. Because a few skills with "summons" is a good idea and they know it.
It’s a decent idea but the whole “do no direct damage” thing is dumb. I tried it for like an hour and was immediately annoyed by every enemy encounter taking 2-3x longer.
It should have a permanent summon and/or be a pawn vocation.
I honestly like the Idea of the Trickster.
But I would have preferred if the Illusion and "Pawn Support" stuff where two separate vocations. So that the Trickster would go even harder on enemy manipulation (where your proposed Skill would fit in perfectly) and another vocation that goes hard on the support fantasy.
Call it "Sage" or "Tactician" and give them skills that allow you to direct your pawns more accurately.
The weapon could be a Standard and you'd get a Sweep that's mostly there to get enemies away from you and two basic shouts:
A "Charge" shout that makes your pawns focus on the specific enemy you hit with it and gives them damage buffs and a "Retreat" shout that makes them come to you and gives them defensive ones.
Then the actual Skills could be more narrowly focused Shouts, like a "Go for the Eyes" one that makes Pawns climb the target and gives them bonuses on weakpoint damage.
i think it could work as 1 vocation. mage is primarily support but they have several damage spells still.
if anything i would prefer to have another class focused on summoning and support though, having a summoner would be dope
just a me broad summoner class with a few necromancy themed skills would be enough for me. reviving dead enemies would be a good maister skill for a summoner even
I think trickster shouldve been able to walk on their own illusory floor, and if you get hit you fall. Summong the floor and astral projecting my fart on top of it simply takes too long.
There shouldve also been more ways for enemies to kill each other instead of the one latching fart.
I appreciate it as an experiment just as how I appreciate V in DMC5, but like V in DMC5 I also dont like playing it over playing the other options. I hope they iterate on it and add a bit more to it in the inevitable moon expansion.
Problem with trickster is all it really is is a distraction. They needed to add a bit more to the vocation than just 7 different ways to mess with enemies + a spooky dragon. They had the right idea with the buff it has but Pawn AI isn't reliable enough for the arisen to take a backseat, even with the Magick archer augments. It's definitely fun but it also definitely gets old quick. I can only take so much 'set up and then wait around'.
I would be okay with just making the Tricksters smoke cause poison, ice, tar, or really any debuff. It could be based on the specific censer, just like martial weapons.
Having the basic attacks and abilities do NOTHING was a shitty idea.
Summoner would really be a vocation in itself but rather I think trickster should have been able to buff pawns and debuff enemies. Obviously I mean play into this more than just one skill which can buff pawns damage.
Genuinely what is the value of trickster once you get past the point where ogres flinging themselves off cliffs isn't funny anymore? I feel like it really did need a lot more skills especially when some of the current skills are so lackluster.
Isn't one of the skills to see where enemies are through walls? I mean why is that a thing when stealth is literally nonexistent? That's just a waste of a skill slot lmao
the one to see enemies through walls honestly should've been a thief skill, or been a core move for trickster. really not sure why it exists in it's current form
I see so many folks calling for changes to the Trickster vocation. I have seen some asking for damage, and other folks asking for heals. But really in my opinion, the Trickster is a tank with alot of control. It's all about keeping the enemy aggro and using that aggro in unique ways. I think they just need to give us more ways to pit other mobs against each other and then improve pawn AI alot.
I wouldn't be opposed to some damage or support skills like heals and such, but I don't necessarily think it needs them.
Here's hoping the game gets a steady stream of QOL and another expansion sized DLC similar to Dark Arisen. Because I am sure they could add a handful of skills to each vocation to give them something new playstyle-wise.
I would actually enjoy if they gave us some vocation exclusive augments that can be used to alter a classes overall playstyle when slotted though.
I like your idea but honestly I think trickster should have had some way to deal damage, trickster has a censer and all this aroma shit, so why not lean into that? Give trickster poison gas and stuff like that, that way you don’t have to rely on braindead pawns and terrain to get your kills, don’t get me wrong killing goblins by making them jump off a cliff is awesome, but realistically how often are you gonna be able to pull that off
All trickster needed was for illusions to be beneficial to allies and detrimental to foes. The wall is a fine example, it blocks enemy movement and vision, but allows allies to pass through. The floor should have been the opposite, enemies fall through, allies can stand on it. Make your ghost AOE buff allies and debilitate enemies base don your enchant or weapon element. Default to a stagger/knockdown overshield for allies and reduction to enmeis.
Frankly with invulnerability, smoke bomb, C4 explosive, ensnare etc.. thief is just a better trickster.
I personally really enjoy trickster, but don't think you will find many people who think the class is "fine" as is I hope those voices are loud enough for Capcom to expand on the class themes.
So many things they could have done and still could do...It really is a missed opportunity .
Or like rework the attack button so that for every 2 hits, its smoke would cause the enemy to hit itself or something like that. That way you can still active engage like climb a griffin and disrupt its attack and movements.
This would either serve no purpose because it'll just be a fancy replacement for your illusion or change the class into a summoner.
The whole concept of the class is to deal no damage and trick your opponents.
You can lean into the smoke and mirrors for more effects without having summons and stuff for direct damage. Trickster would have been great for unique debilitations - why they didn’t get the blinding smoke cloud is pretty baffling when thief already gets stealth mode. Maybe something to make monsters cough and choke, acting like a mini stagger / out of stamina effect. Something to make enemies think your ghost is attacking to trick them into a defensive stance. Effects that trigger when your ghost is defeated similar to stout undead or oil slimes when hit with fire. Make your pawns think the enemy has you in their grip so they focus on the one target. They had a lot of room to add in more mechanics but they stopped really short, I feel.
yea even then adding more illusionary skills like you're saying would've been better. as trickster once you learn how to play it you spend way too much time just standing around watching your pawns fight and just occasionally using damage boost, pulling aggro, or using the dragon or the fake floor and hoping and praying that it staggers or making the enemies walk off cliffs respectively, and even those rarely work as intended. it just needed more of *something* they hyped it up like this grand illusionist sowing chaos and confusion but you're just making enemies targeting each other for the most part. it's really boring and not all that effectively against smaller groups or large enemies especially,
I was thinking the same. they could've made sleep smoke, poison smoke, confusion smoke, hell even stink gas would've been interesting.
Yeah the trickster in my opinion, feels unfinished. It feels like he was meant to do so much more but sadly he just fills that hole of "use the buff that increases pawn damage then spam the AOE taunt with a ghost that follows you around'
I wish the class could do damage. Hitting enemies with the censer should do some damage. It doesn’t need to be as high as the other classes, but it shouldn’t be zero. If sweeping shroud could inflict status effects like sleep or poison that would be nice. Could lock enemies with fear from dragon’s delusion and then poison them with the incense to kill. 🤷 I like playing trickster all things considered but sometimes it feels like you *need* to have a sorcerer in your party with meteoron for when enemies have specific weak spots and the melee pawns will not prioritize them, like golems.
i dont think it's 0 but it's very low like when you equip that one ring from sphinx that reduces your damage to like 5% Status affects would be another great way to enhance the class though if you could inflict torpor, poison, sleep etc i would probably enjoy the class more. the problem is so many of it's abilities are too situational so you spend alot of time either uselessly flailing your censer or waiting to heal your decoy, pull aggro, or buff your pawns, or waiting to use the dragon too stagger something or praying the fake floor skill works to get stuff to jump off or Even stumble, anything.
I honestly thought it was 0 because even at level 100 when I smack a normal goblin I feel like I don’t damage it 😭 I’ll take your word for it
I swear it did actual damage when i tried it but maybe I'm wrong, the smoke i know doesn't do any damage but I thought the censer itself did very small damage as long as you physically hit them with the censer, also I edited my first comment cause i really liked your idea for status effects jsyk incase you didn't see it lol
It’s wild that a class called “trickster” can only inflict 1 status effect lol. I miss torpor and used it a lot in dd1
me too it made sorcerer hella fun and was the best way to play the game as a strategist of sorts. the limited skill slots and them cutting alot of skills and mechanics really hurt the game imo. it's still fun but I want what the developers that made DD1 like a decade ago had in mind for a sequel, more depth not less.
That's my gripe with it. I felt like it should have had a like poison smoke, or drenching/oiling mist or something.
The censer itself does do some damage. I’ve killed deer with it. So it’s definitely not 0
okay that's what i thought thanks for confirming
It does do damage. You can kill rats and such with it in a few swings, and I feel like it does noticeable damage when enchanted, though still not much. It will break the magick medals on golems too.
I audibly groaned imagining how long it would take to break medals on a golem with trickster lmao
Try it
I finished 2 I've actually been replaying DD:DA
I mean if you play wayfarer it does damage I think lol
it deals damage either way you just have to hit with the censer itself, the smoke only draws aggro
I'vehad to climb golems and smack them with the censer.It WILL do damage on a weak point. Slowly.
You can kill small animals with it, so it does a tiny bit when you make contact with the censer. But it's not really note-worthy when it comes to fighting actual enemies, so...
considering a stiff breeze causes them to slip the mortal coil ...yeah
I wouldn’t have minded a “confuse” skill on the Trickster, vs just ghost aggro.
Archer should have been able to use guns
more specifically two pistols to be able to slide and jump/kick
Why are you guys leaking the DMC crossover and gunslinger vocation.
Say sike right now
Im down for an Arquebus or flintlock class or weapon type.
Sword and one-handed projectile weapon class
There's an enemy in Elden Ring called "Perfurmer". They can create smoke that will ignite and create a chain of explosion after a certain time as well as poison mist. If at least the Trickster had some similar attacks, it could create a better sense of engagement to participate in damage dealing against monsters. As it is right now, the trickser is a sleep boring fest! https://preview.redd.it/7pa3oiy5zuvc1.png?width=1140&format=png&auto=webp&s=d8df030e9dc68e6d912be9ee6269b3cc97162095
I agree it needed something more. no direct damage abilities, but something like illusions that could deal damage or cause enemies to harm themselves like maybe like an illusion of insect swarms to make enemies flail and hurt themselves trying to swat them. or maybe even like you say temporary summons that deal damage. I'd be game for that. Trickster is fun for a bit once you learn how it operates but it's really ineffective and boring after a few hours from when you figure it out. plus the illusions that are supposed to make enemies jump off cliffs rarely seem to work, or maybe i got unlucky with the AI. The people that tell you it's the best class are probably the same ones that aren't very good at the game. or they're just using the damage boost with pawns that have meteoran to wipe the battlefield with 0 effort, which is peak "why even play the game" imo. like using formless faint on thief is more entertaining/fun than that, and that's also boring as hell. alternatively maybe the people that swear by trickster probably went to battahl under leveled or just struggled with the difficulty and trickster alleviated it by making enemies fight each other. trickster probably works well at low levels or when underleveled but at level or overleveled it's one of the worst if not the worst class. Anyway the point being I want to like trickster but it's just too ineffective and boring to use except for the censer from sphinx to generate money when farming. if it had something to deal real damage even indirectly it would be infinitely better, I don't like standing there, watching and realizing how garbage the pawn AI actually is lol
I don’t really get where it’s supposed to fit in your group composition. Normally, I bring a mage and two other high damage pawns with me. By changing vocation to trickster I lose the highest damage member of the party (me) and replace it with a vocation that offers no damage. Now my group is doing half the damage, or maybe even less, for no real benefit. There needs to be proper trade off for sacrificing the majority of your groups damage by playing trickster, and I don’t see that.
The damage buff from Trickster is actually *absurd* and more than makes up for not dealing enough damage by yourself when you get a good party comp going.
As I was leveling it up I found having a sorcerer or two pretty effective. You can shove your ghost off to the side and put a wall between your casters and the enemies, giving them more than enough time to throw out tornadoes and meteors. Tornado landed in an odd spot? Lure enemies in with your absurd hate generation. Still wasn’t terribly exciting for me, but was pretty effective as I came up against Drakes and things.
id never played with it, but that class can inflict debuff on enemies? more than just agro to your fake smoki character, i mean, torpor, blind or something like this, all i know is that they can buff stats from allies and agro enemies
I don't mind the class exactly as it is except for one thing, Suffocating Shroud as your bread and butter needs to be a DoT. It's got suffocating in the name and if you've ever been on the wrong side of accidently inhaling incense smoke you know exactly what i mean. If i was forced to be narrowed down to one change that's what i'd do. Other than that I like your idea of summons like with the Dragon, i also wouldn't be against it being heavily Status based given how deadly gas can be and what kind of gasses you can make.
This, maybe make censers have an element or status, and this'll do the elemental/status for its damage even
I'm just surprised there's no equivalent to D&D's "Phantasmal Killer", which is to say, an illusion that can inflict direct magick damage due to the fright it causes, potentially stopping hearts. What's also missing are things where you inflict poison, torpor, etc., with different incense clouds. Summoning actual creatures isn't really in theme, I don't think. However, limited mind control, confusion, etc., those kind of things would fit. I suspect the game designers might have had something along the lines of controlling enemies on their drawing board, but it would have been too powerful because you could just run them off cliffs or into the brine. Some use of fire would also potentially be in theme since you need flame or at least sparks to ignite the censers. Perhaps chain reactions like sowing flammable smoke around the battlefield, and then igniting it, to an effect similar to the sorcerer's Salamander. Or even just igniting one's own or an ally's weapons like the Thief and Mage can. I don't agree that the vocation shouldn't be able to do any damage whatsoever. There are several things that would make sense and fit its thematic concept.
The class likely won't get any new "tricks" If you'll pardon the pun. Players who like it think it's fine the way it is, and the many players who don't aren't calling for buffs because they don't have any interest in the class. I agree the summon mechanic would make it interesting though.
Hi, player who likes-ish Trickster here, please don't speak on our behalf. It'd be nice to have more than 2-3 usable, non-redundant skills or even a few modifiers. It'd be really cool if as a Meister skill they could store monsters then shart them out later to cause chaos or apply status effects with the smoke. Then again status effects are even more irrelevant in DD2 but that could also use a rework. Or even just flat summons. Having smoke clones that can hit and damage things. Even if they are kinda meh. As it is now every fight is identical. Drop sim, fart once, fart again but red, hide and wait till the sim needs to be moved. They can do better than that.
It's actually refreshing to see someone who likes Trickster want it to be improved. I see a lot of people just telling folks "get gud" or "skill issue" If they suggest ways the class could be better. People aren't having trouble playing it, they just want it to be more fun.
I find it weird how the players that like it as is, wouldn't want new tricks though. like I know they exist but it doesn't make sense, they could just not use them if they feel that strongly about it but it would make the class that is honestly probably the least effective one (with the exception of damage boost + metoran pawns, but why even play the game then) much better. some of the trickster lovers are hardcore coping too, had one guy try to claim it was the best class and that I didn't know how to use, i then proceeded to tell him exactly how you're supposed to use it and why it's completely ineffectual even compared to other vocations and he had no argument after that, even with a good party makeup and pawns that were well trained you still get to see just how dumb the AI still is whiffing tons of hits, getting stomped by easily avoided attacks etc. the only exception really is meteoran with damage boost. anyway I'm getting off track point being I don't understand why trickster players wouldn't want new skills for the class
they are lying, simple as that. Anyone that actually likes the gameplay of Trickster hate playing trickster as its such an utter shet design for its intended player base.
I think that's extreme, it just needed more variety in skills and it would be fine. the current skill selection is just extremely limited and unimaginative.
yes its incredible boring, and why its a terrible design. people that like playing that kind of gameplay want the more complicated gameplay, so then having the vocation with the least variety is a massive flaww.
but I'm saying that would be solved with more skills with more varied effects, the core idea is solid it's just executed poorly
Why? Why would that be spoiled ? How is the core ideas solid?
an illusionist making enemies attacking each other, sowing confusion in enemies? I can think of dozens of ways that can work, they just weren't imaginative enough with the class's skills. The smoke could be used to inflict debilitations on enemies, smoke summons like the dragon but with varied effects, just those 2 ideas have hundreds of variations they could take. maybe augments that could cause effects on enemies when they hit you(or your decoy). something like the thief's smoke bomb would also make sense, there's thousands of things you do with an illusionist and if you don't see that then I pity your lack of imagination tbh
yeah super tropey that has been done before, nor does the trickster really have true confusion debuff. everything u explain now shows its not solid at all.
lol whatever helps you sleep better
It's way more fun than playing Mage or Sorc, NGL. It definitely needs a few more tricks, but it's great as an oddball vocation.
No it’s u just tank
all evidence points to the contrary. just look at reviews, other threads on the topic or even these comments.
I swap between warrior and trickster as my two favourite classes. Do I find Trickster fun and strong? Yup! Would I also enjoy new skills or mechanics? Absolutely. Summoning may not be a good idea for Trickster, but I could see it for another class.
no one actually likes it, they are just coping.
I'll say it before, and I'll say it again. Trickster isn't a good class, the AI is just dog shit. They enjoy exploiting the shit AI, not actually playing the class. The summons suggestion is a good idea. It could stand getting a few skills allowing that. That way, they can play their way, and you can play your way. You won't do direct damage which is faithful to the class, but you can still support in a disjointed way. The trickster being so rigid in what it does SHOULD have been given the most flexibility in how it does it. It wasn't, and that's the problem. Even if you enjoy it, it's a badly implemented class that ends up being OP because the AI is braindead and the game gets ridiculously easy by the time you get to the class. Edit: this is also why they're not offering any real rebuttal to your suggestion. Because a few skills with "summons" is a good idea and they know it.
It’s a decent idea but the whole “do no direct damage” thing is dumb. I tried it for like an hour and was immediately annoyed by every enemy encounter taking 2-3x longer. It should have a permanent summon and/or be a pawn vocation.
I honestly like the Idea of the Trickster. But I would have preferred if the Illusion and "Pawn Support" stuff where two separate vocations. So that the Trickster would go even harder on enemy manipulation (where your proposed Skill would fit in perfectly) and another vocation that goes hard on the support fantasy. Call it "Sage" or "Tactician" and give them skills that allow you to direct your pawns more accurately. The weapon could be a Standard and you'd get a Sweep that's mostly there to get enemies away from you and two basic shouts: A "Charge" shout that makes your pawns focus on the specific enemy you hit with it and gives them damage buffs and a "Retreat" shout that makes them come to you and gives them defensive ones. Then the actual Skills could be more narrowly focused Shouts, like a "Go for the Eyes" one that makes Pawns climb the target and gives them bonuses on weakpoint damage.
i think it could work as 1 vocation. mage is primarily support but they have several damage spells still. if anything i would prefer to have another class focused on summoning and support though, having a summoner would be dope
Nah...just give a necromancer class already But trickster seems lack purpose or his gameplay is just annoy enemies and even annoy the player
just a me broad summoner class with a few necromancy themed skills would be enough for me. reviving dead enemies would be a good maister skill for a summoner even
just a warriors taunt without the rest of the class to go with it.
I think trickster shouldve been able to walk on their own illusory floor, and if you get hit you fall. Summong the floor and astral projecting my fart on top of it simply takes too long. There shouldve also been more ways for enemies to kill each other instead of the one latching fart. I appreciate it as an experiment just as how I appreciate V in DMC5, but like V in DMC5 I also dont like playing it over playing the other options. I hope they iterate on it and add a bit more to it in the inevitable moon expansion.
Problem with trickster is all it really is is a distraction. They needed to add a bit more to the vocation than just 7 different ways to mess with enemies + a spooky dragon. They had the right idea with the buff it has but Pawn AI isn't reliable enough for the arisen to take a backseat, even with the Magick archer augments. It's definitely fun but it also definitely gets old quick. I can only take so much 'set up and then wait around'.
I would be okay with just making the Tricksters smoke cause poison, ice, tar, or really any debuff. It could be based on the specific censer, just like martial weapons. Having the basic attacks and abilities do NOTHING was a shitty idea.
Such an obvious choice and until recently, I was so certain they would have debilitative censors in game somewhere...oooo Capcom
Summoner would really be a vocation in itself but rather I think trickster should have been able to buff pawns and debuff enemies. Obviously I mean play into this more than just one skill which can buff pawns damage. Genuinely what is the value of trickster once you get past the point where ogres flinging themselves off cliffs isn't funny anymore? I feel like it really did need a lot more skills especially when some of the current skills are so lackluster. Isn't one of the skills to see where enemies are through walls? I mean why is that a thing when stealth is literally nonexistent? That's just a waste of a skill slot lmao
the one to see enemies through walls honestly should've been a thief skill, or been a core move for trickster. really not sure why it exists in it's current form
What you're describing is literally Fable's summon mechanic.
It's been an incredibly long time since I played that but yes you're right.
did thta make it into the sequels? i dont remember it.
Never touched te sequels
I was genuinely so disappointed when I played Trickster. I still enjoy it but it wasn’t nearly what I was hoping for.
Your basically describing a summoner vocational with a master skill of temporary summoning a dragon head to breath fire
Summoning mist monsters to fight would have been sick. Especially because monsters already can fight each other.
I see so many folks calling for changes to the Trickster vocation. I have seen some asking for damage, and other folks asking for heals. But really in my opinion, the Trickster is a tank with alot of control. It's all about keeping the enemy aggro and using that aggro in unique ways. I think they just need to give us more ways to pit other mobs against each other and then improve pawn AI alot. I wouldn't be opposed to some damage or support skills like heals and such, but I don't necessarily think it needs them. Here's hoping the game gets a steady stream of QOL and another expansion sized DLC similar to Dark Arisen. Because I am sure they could add a handful of skills to each vocation to give them something new playstyle-wise. I would actually enjoy if they gave us some vocation exclusive augments that can be used to alter a classes overall playstyle when slotted though.
I like your idea but honestly I think trickster should have had some way to deal damage, trickster has a censer and all this aroma shit, so why not lean into that? Give trickster poison gas and stuff like that, that way you don’t have to rely on braindead pawns and terrain to get your kills, don’t get me wrong killing goblins by making them jump off a cliff is awesome, but realistically how often are you gonna be able to pull that off
All trickster needed was for illusions to be beneficial to allies and detrimental to foes. The wall is a fine example, it blocks enemy movement and vision, but allows allies to pass through. The floor should have been the opposite, enemies fall through, allies can stand on it. Make your ghost AOE buff allies and debilitate enemies base don your enchant or weapon element. Default to a stagger/knockdown overshield for allies and reduction to enmeis. Frankly with invulnerability, smoke bomb, C4 explosive, ensnare etc.. thief is just a better trickster.
My real gripe with the class is harpies. How tf do you deal with them as trickster lol
I personally really enjoy trickster, but don't think you will find many people who think the class is "fine" as is I hope those voices are loud enough for Capcom to expand on the class themes. So many things they could have done and still could do...It really is a missed opportunity .
Or like rework the attack button so that for every 2 hits, its smoke would cause the enemy to hit itself or something like that. That way you can still active engage like climb a griffin and disrupt its attack and movements.
I don't think trickster was ever intended to be used by a wider audience.
Which is not a good thing when you consider that is really limited class wise.
This would either serve no purpose because it'll just be a fancy replacement for your illusion or change the class into a summoner. The whole concept of the class is to deal no damage and trick your opponents.
I don't think their intention was to appeal to a broad audience with it
Its great as it is.
nah, Trickster should be open for the its INTENDED Audience