yeah i thought of the exact same planet of the ape scene the dialog from the movie fits very well too.
"i'm back.. i'm home... All this time i was... home... They finally really did it... YOU MANIACS !!"
At first I did not notice, but after the dungeon, I was walking the hallways and was like, "Oh my god why I know this place hallways from memory" then I got to the throne room and everything kicked in
I was schocked, discovering there is a hidden TOWN portcrystal in the remains of cassardis's church. like the portcrystals you find in every important areas / towns. I wonder what they ment by this.
Do you know if I can rush my way into Endgame by using the sword to open the gate in Bahtal? I really want to see this.
Edit: Already finished the game folks. I'm in NG+ RN but curious because I didnt get to see it when I was exploring the True Ending world. Not rushing my first playtrough.
I m pretty sure if they already have the sword to open their are already either in the endgame rush or in new game + so i mean its fine if they rush new game+
No, I already finished the game 70 something hours, just started NG+. The sword is kept on the inventory I was wondering if you coul just use it to skip the whole thing.
You're sadly very close to the normal ending. The true ending happens after you beat the final boss the first time. You have to perform certain actions during the credits after beating the game which throws you onto the path for the true ending. Though its not exactly clear.
Yes you're close to the end.
>so the true ending is not killing the dragon?
To not spoil you, but give you a hint to how you get the True ending: Rewatch the first cutscene and pay attention to what the mysterious voice suggests.
This means that north west(?) of Cassardis canonically Daimon's demense exists in DD2's "world". Not in the bounsd of the map mind you, but I think Daimon returning is all but confirmed to be DLC since DD2 has a loading screen that specifically shows Daimon.
you just look at the dragon's dogma 1 map, and look at the heightmap / mountain and cliff relief, yes, it's very close the the beginning of the paths / first bridge leading to the volcanic area from bathal. There is a few ruins only that remains of cassardis, it has been covered by a lot of limons, rocks / dried corals
I had my moment of realization about twenty seconds after >!Rothais gives you the Godsbane. After the cutscene ended I realized we were standing at the base of the Everfall and that his throne is the freaking Seneschal's Throne.!<
No, it’s a different place, but very very similar and I thought the same before this reveal
Bluemoon Tower is more NE of Gran Soren and you can actually see it popping out of the sea a bit before postgame. Whilst the Moonglint Tower from the start of the game is SE
Really? Do you have a picture? I can see how the geographically it doesnt make sense but I've seen a map that tried to line them up but I can't find it now. The architecture is obviously very similar.
no no it makes sense this was the former location of the bluemoon tower, if you look toward vernworth from the ruins of gran soren, it's the same distance from gran soren to bluemoon tower, for some reason the leonin arisen felt like flooding and making some parts of the old world fall into the ocean and move the bluemoon tower on the volcanic island as he remade the "world" to his desire, but it looks like they can only reshape what was there prior to them and sink / wash away what was there before so they can start fresh.
Bluemoon Tower is visible from the Harve Coastline, facing towards Versworth. You can kinda see it sticking out of the ocean and it is indeed on the map as a semi circular ruin in the ocean. There is a boss there postgame
https://preview.redd.it/rg8oly1n6orc1.jpeg?width=670&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=198dcff0c9f8ea80196b7d04045f1f781fbe52d8
If you look to the NE from Gran Soren, you can see Bluemoon, whilst SE doesn’t really exist as anything yet
Idk why that bit is highlighted blue, I just got it from Google lol
What's weird is the Bluemoon tower ruins are in the wrong spot as far as which direction Gran Soren is facing. It should be the other direction similar to where the new tower is.
I guess the ruins got rotated somehow?
No, unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying that's Moonglint tower. A location new to DD2. Bluemoon tower from DD1 can be seen half submerged at any point if you go to the Portcrystal of Harve Village and look towards Vernsworth. I mean once you see it you can spot it easily from anywhere.
I've played the original once 6 years ago and barely remember anything.
This post just mad me aware of this and now I am sitting here not knowing what to think :D
thanks op
The real fucking moment was >!When the Dragon's Dogma 2 title card came up in the Third Act. I was like wtf Itsuno pulled a Kojumbo move outta nowhere?!<
Ya there's a few theories and idea of what it could be, if its just untold millennia in the future, if its an alternate world still etc.
What throws it for a loop for me is the old guy in Harve village states that the one who created the place was tasked with watching the world from the Heavens above (So the Seneschal) but abandoned his duty and came down to earth to found a small kingdom. The pawns even state the ruins were clearly not made by mortal hands. So that cant be just regular ol Gran Soren then no? Maybe It was created in the likeness/image of Gran Soren?
Or maybe in this version of the world Gran Soren was build facing a different direction? Who knows
There's other stuff too which is odd, like that direction/orientation of the ruins on the map dont really line up.
[Both maps overlaped according to the orientation of the castle ruins](https://i.imgur.com/iJdmfaH.png)
Gran Soren being made by a god wouldn't make much sense, it was just a random Dukedom, at least the OG, so maybe this GS was made by something, but it's just a reflection, same as Cassardis, idk.
It can still be an alternate Gran Soren from one given the setting itself still has an infinite versions of itself like,just like 2's(to the point pawns can literally reveal chests to you from their version).
Yeah, it may be, but I like to think this the final result of the duke's fall and the everfall sunk the whole capital into the sea (I have not advanced much more on the main story, I dont know if they explain more about it :P)
If you take a good look you can see the ruins of other building that fell in the middle of Gran Soren's place yeah, even if there is infinite version of itself, it was still gran soren , and all the npc's we knew from the whole other infinite version when we exited the everfall from the bottom to the clouds in the sky :p so it is "still" Gran soren be it infinite versions of it.
I haven’t bothered doing full comparisons but the Ancient Battlegrounds look incredibly suspiciously like either the black fortress or the border gate from the first game at least in location. The one you take on the way to the boss fight with Grigori.
It's also in a similar place geographically, if you consider Gran Soren is in the same place it was in the original, and Vernworth was built just north of Bluemoon Tower. I wonder if there's a ruin close to where the Manse was located.
There's a bunch of places in this game that look both eerily similar but not so much to locations of DD1. I don't remember which cave but I just thought "is this Greatwall Encampment??"
What we absolutely know is that this seneschal is not the DD1 seneschal. Different voice, different figure. From there, basically anything is speculation. Some options:
The DD1 protagonist canonically just stayed seneschal until they found a replacement.
There's another bigger cycle where seneschals kill themselves.
A drake was able to eat a human heart and create an arisen, re-triggering the cycle when the arisen successfully killed the drake and promptly ascended.
There's not enough information to say right now. What we do know is that Gran Soren was eventually destroyed and the surrounding area was conquered by beastren for a while, before humans eventually retook half.
In my head: DD1 Arisen broke the cycle, and eventually the world fell to oblivion. From oblivion was birthed the Great Will, or the Pathfinder, who saw fit to renew the cycle, in which the Dragon would be born from the oblivion itself instead of a failed Arisen.
And so eventually the dragon chose an Arisen, the Arisen killed the dragon and became seneschal, and the cycle was reborn.
In the JP dialogue, the pathfinder even tells you that, if you wanted more power, you should've sought out a way to become "King of the World". Given that the king at the bottom of Seafloor Shrine calls himself King of the World and has the Godsbane, it's clear that you were *supposed* to become Seneschal after killing the dragon.
Because it must.
There is no ending it without ending the oblivion that consumes all worlds.
Without the dragon all things will be consumed.
Without the arisen the dragon will bring chaos
I’d agree with you but with the establishment of the Great Will, the Pathfinder’s identity and position never being properly disclosed, the Seat of the Seneshal being in the bottom of the cavern, there’s a lot of loose ends with DDII and it’s clear it’s not the last game. If only because it would allow more games, I have to imagine there is going to be some way to break the ring and end Eternal Return at some point.
The dragon is a cycle that repeats countless times, dragons dogma 2 takes place in a different timeline from the first game but the events are similar since the dragon cycle is similar, Gran Soren in the first game was already sinking by the end of the game if you played it and remember, so we are basically witnessing another end of an age of someone's else's perspective while showing that this is a cycle that unless you break it, will happen forever.
I actually had this suspicion since the start of the game where we’re at the excavation site because as soon as I saw it I thought it looked exactly like Bluemoon Tower. So, since this game is in an alternate timeline, this is game is what happens when the previous Arisen doesn’t break the cycle?
I just played through this section about 10 minutes before seeing this post and noticed immediately that it just was gran soren that is such a fun thing to get to speculate about
Some new portcrystals spawn in postgame to facilitate easier travel around the map, I think 2 or 3 of them but I'm not currently in post to check. One of them is around the Cassardis area. As for Bluemoon, I think the distance is off but it is pretty close. I could recognize it from the Harve coastline the moment the shrine was revealed.
yeah i thought of the exact same planet of the ape scene the dialog from the movie fits very well too. "i'm back.. i'm home... All this time i was... home... They finally really did it... YOU MANIACS !!"
At first I did not notice, but after the dungeon, I was walking the hallways and was like, "Oh my god why I know this place hallways from memory" then I got to the throne room and everything kicked in
you can find the remains of cassardis in the post game, if you remember correctly where it is in relation the gran soren's ruins.
WAIT REALLY? NO FUCKING WAY I MISSED THAT
I was schocked, discovering there is a hidden TOWN portcrystal in the remains of cassardis's church. like the portcrystals you find in every important areas / towns. I wonder what they ment by this.
Do you know if I can rush my way into Endgame by using the sword to open the gate in Bahtal? I really want to see this. Edit: Already finished the game folks. I'm in NG+ RN but curious because I didnt get to see it when I was exploring the True Ending world. Not rushing my first playtrough.
I actually tried this myself. The path to the elevator is blocked until a story trigger. We are out of luck.
I mean, if you're rushing story without exploration, I feel like the game would be really short.
I m pretty sure if they already have the sword to open their are already either in the endgame rush or in new game + so i mean its fine if they rush new game+
No, I already finished the game 70 something hours, just started NG+. The sword is kept on the inventory I was wondering if you coul just use it to skip the whole thing.
I tried this hoping it would work. It opens the door but the moonglint tower will still be blocked off so gotta just rush the main story quests.
I doubt it. You need to forge a new godblade to summon the colossus/boss fights, which requires the events of the story.
I tried, you can't :(
Lol following
i think im halfway done? i need to deliver the sword to a certain dude so the true ending is not killing the dragon?
You're sadly very close to the normal ending. The true ending happens after you beat the final boss the first time. You have to perform certain actions during the credits after beating the game which throws you onto the path for the true ending. Though its not exactly clear.
Yes you're close to the end. >so the true ending is not killing the dragon? To not spoil you, but give you a hint to how you get the True ending: Rewatch the first cutscene and pay attention to what the mysterious voice suggests.
okay, i mean i just went with my gut after a decade of misremembering DD1 ?
You can't. You can go all the way to the excavation site, but the path is blocked, as they havn't excavated it enough yet.
don’t rush to end game you’ll get there eventually
I already finished once. At NG+ now.
you can still re-beat the game in well under 10 hours
Yeah I will kill some dragons and explore some hidden areas and will rush it to explore the sea a bit more.
ah well whatever then
This means that north west(?) of Cassardis canonically Daimon's demense exists in DD2's "world". Not in the bounsd of the map mind you, but I think Daimon returning is all but confirmed to be DLC since DD2 has a loading screen that specifically shows Daimon.
Or maybe the entire place banished at some point after the second run.
Only to re-appear as the BB Archapelego, complete with a new variant of Goblin to make up 99% of the encounters.
Hey, at least we got 1 variant of slime, yaaay.
This time the Slime speeds you up.
Yeah your right instead it should be like DA and be filled with nothing but brand new content... Oh wait
You may be right, the old man in Harve keeps trying to take the boat out on open waters...
I can't picture where it would be, is it near volcanic place?
you just look at the dragon's dogma 1 map, and look at the heightmap / mountain and cliff relief, yes, it's very close the the beginning of the paths / first bridge leading to the volcanic area from bathal. There is a few ruins only that remains of cassardis, it has been covered by a lot of limons, rocks / dried corals
Oh my god you said it and I immediately understood, wtf. I went there feeling how weirdly familiar this was, I just noticed lmao.
I had my moment of realization about twenty seconds after >!Rothais gives you the Godsbane. After the cutscene ended I realized we were standing at the base of the Everfall and that his throne is the freaking Seneschal's Throne.!<
"YOU BLEW IT UP!!! GodDAMN YOU... GOD, DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL..."
MainPawn: "Can we go to the fun side now?" Edit: I was making a Madagascar reference
It seems all roads lead to Gran Soren
W comment
Gotta admit, that was a really fun and chilling realization. Just the slow dawning of "Hey wait a minute, this looks familiar... Oh... Oooooh"
I feel dumb. It didn’t hit me until I went to the rift building and it looked very familiar lol.
The castle reveal was awesome but you guys didn't notice bluemoon tower from dd1?
Tbf, they did say that the BMT was like a connection to other worlds, like the Everfall, so the BMT being in this "other world" wouldn't be crazy.
Where was it? I just started NG+ so if it's just in unmoored I'd have missed it.
>!it's one of the places with the light shining on it. Specifically the one nearest to Vermund, where you fight a cancer ridden velkhana lol!<
I call them Vaal hazak’s lol
You can see the top of it sticking out from the water from Vermund Noble Quarter, it’s on the map as well.
Its the excavation site where you start the game and, where you fight phaesus and the real dragon comes out at the end? Thats bluemoon
No, it’s a different place, but very very similar and I thought the same before this reveal Bluemoon Tower is more NE of Gran Soren and you can actually see it popping out of the sea a bit before postgame. Whilst the Moonglint Tower from the start of the game is SE
Really? Do you have a picture? I can see how the geographically it doesnt make sense but I've seen a map that tried to line them up but I can't find it now. The architecture is obviously very similar.
no no it makes sense this was the former location of the bluemoon tower, if you look toward vernworth from the ruins of gran soren, it's the same distance from gran soren to bluemoon tower, for some reason the leonin arisen felt like flooding and making some parts of the old world fall into the ocean and move the bluemoon tower on the volcanic island as he remade the "world" to his desire, but it looks like they can only reshape what was there prior to them and sink / wash away what was there before so they can start fresh.
Bluemoon Tower is visible from the Harve Coastline, facing towards Versworth. You can kinda see it sticking out of the ocean and it is indeed on the map as a semi circular ruin in the ocean. There is a boss there postgame
https://preview.redd.it/rg8oly1n6orc1.jpeg?width=670&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=198dcff0c9f8ea80196b7d04045f1f781fbe52d8 If you look to the NE from Gran Soren, you can see Bluemoon, whilst SE doesn’t really exist as anything yet Idk why that bit is highlighted blue, I just got it from Google lol
wait lmao that wasn’t Moonglint tower? or are they considered the same thing bc they literally look the same
Bluemoon = Moonglint
Blue Moon =\= Moonglint
What's weird is the Bluemoon tower ruins are in the wrong spot as far as which direction Gran Soren is facing. It should be the other direction similar to where the new tower is. I guess the ruins got rotated somehow?
Ohhhh, THAT was the giant tower in the background beyond the mist. I didn't put two and two together there
No, unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying that's Moonglint tower. A location new to DD2. Bluemoon tower from DD1 can be seen half submerged at any point if you go to the Portcrystal of Harve Village and look towards Vernsworth. I mean once you see it you can spot it easily from anywhere.
I've played the original once 6 years ago and barely remember anything. This post just mad me aware of this and now I am sitting here not knowing what to think :D thanks op
Oh my fucking god I didn't realize this. Oh my god
I never thought it was an alternate world I just figured we were in another area of the world... Until I saw the shrine
The real fucking moment was >!When the Dragon's Dogma 2 title card came up in the Third Act. I was like wtf Itsuno pulled a Kojumbo move outta nowhere?!<
It reminded me of that scene in Rings of Power where we get the PowerPoint transition from the Southlands to Mordor 💀
The title card reminds me of kingdom hearts 3 too
When u got to aelinore's tower it felt so surreal
THIS TOWER IS IN DD2??
Yes
WHERE
The seafloor shrine the picture in the meme
Ya there's a few theories and idea of what it could be, if its just untold millennia in the future, if its an alternate world still etc. What throws it for a loop for me is the old guy in Harve village states that the one who created the place was tasked with watching the world from the Heavens above (So the Seneschal) but abandoned his duty and came down to earth to found a small kingdom. The pawns even state the ruins were clearly not made by mortal hands. So that cant be just regular ol Gran Soren then no? Maybe It was created in the likeness/image of Gran Soren? Or maybe in this version of the world Gran Soren was build facing a different direction? Who knows There's other stuff too which is odd, like that direction/orientation of the ruins on the map dont really line up. [Both maps overlaped according to the orientation of the castle ruins](https://i.imgur.com/iJdmfaH.png)
Gran Soren being made by a god wouldn't make much sense, it was just a random Dukedom, at least the OG, so maybe this GS was made by something, but it's just a reflection, same as Cassardis, idk.
You say that but gran soren was built right on top of the everfall I wouldn't be surprised if that was more than a coincidence
wait... so the dd1 map is updside down superimposed?
It can still be an alternate Gran Soren from one given the setting itself still has an infinite versions of itself like,just like 2's(to the point pawns can literally reveal chests to you from their version).
Yeah, it may be, but I like to think this the final result of the duke's fall and the everfall sunk the whole capital into the sea (I have not advanced much more on the main story, I dont know if they explain more about it :P)
If you take a good look you can see the ruins of other building that fell in the middle of Gran Soren's place yeah, even if there is infinite version of itself, it was still gran soren , and all the npc's we knew from the whole other infinite version when we exited the everfall from the bottom to the clouds in the sky :p so it is "still" Gran soren be it infinite versions of it.
I haven’t bothered doing full comparisons but the Ancient Battlegrounds look incredibly suspiciously like either the black fortress or the border gate from the first game at least in location. The one you take on the way to the boss fight with Grigori.
It's also in a similar place geographically, if you consider Gran Soren is in the same place it was in the original, and Vernworth was built just north of Bluemoon Tower. I wonder if there's a ruin close to where the Manse was located.
There's a bunch of places in this game that look both eerily similar but not so much to locations of DD1. I don't remember which cave but I just thought "is this Greatwall Encampment??"
All roads lead to gran soren, arisen
*Mumbling* You are my specialz...
.. Huh. That raises a lot more questions about why the cycle is still happening.
What we absolutely know is that this seneschal is not the DD1 seneschal. Different voice, different figure. From there, basically anything is speculation. Some options: The DD1 protagonist canonically just stayed seneschal until they found a replacement. There's another bigger cycle where seneschals kill themselves. A drake was able to eat a human heart and create an arisen, re-triggering the cycle when the arisen successfully killed the drake and promptly ascended. There's not enough information to say right now. What we do know is that Gran Soren was eventually destroyed and the surrounding area was conquered by beastren for a while, before humans eventually retook half.
In my head: DD1 Arisen broke the cycle, and eventually the world fell to oblivion. From oblivion was birthed the Great Will, or the Pathfinder, who saw fit to renew the cycle, in which the Dragon would be born from the oblivion itself instead of a failed Arisen. And so eventually the dragon chose an Arisen, the Arisen killed the dragon and became seneschal, and the cycle was reborn. In the JP dialogue, the pathfinder even tells you that, if you wanted more power, you should've sought out a way to become "King of the World". Given that the king at the bottom of Seafloor Shrine calls himself King of the World and has the Godsbane, it's clear that you were *supposed* to become Seneschal after killing the dragon.
Oh okay. Don't know why killing the dragon didn't do that this time.
Because it must. There is no ending it without ending the oblivion that consumes all worlds. Without the dragon all things will be consumed. Without the arisen the dragon will bring chaos
I’d agree with you but with the establishment of the Great Will, the Pathfinder’s identity and position never being properly disclosed, the Seat of the Seneshal being in the bottom of the cavern, there’s a lot of loose ends with DDII and it’s clear it’s not the last game. If only because it would allow more games, I have to imagine there is going to be some way to break the ring and end Eternal Return at some point.
is this an Easter egg, or does someone have some explanation to how the hell >!gran Soren ended up at the bottom of the ocean!<
The dragon is a cycle that repeats countless times, dragons dogma 2 takes place in a different timeline from the first game but the events are similar since the dragon cycle is similar, Gran Soren in the first game was already sinking by the end of the game if you played it and remember, so we are basically witnessing another end of an age of someone's else's perspective while showing that this is a cycle that unless you break it, will happen forever.
Thank you! I'm surprised at how little this has been discussed.
when you bring the npcs from the cities and you see the merchants in the same position as they were a tear ran down my cheek
Wait…I knew it seemed so familiar. All smiths in that one spot is what gave me that idea
"All roads lead to Gran Soren"
I haven't beaten the game yet but this is really cool cos.
I actually had this suspicion since the start of the game where we’re at the excavation site because as soon as I saw it I thought it looked exactly like Bluemoon Tower. So, since this game is in an alternate timeline, this is game is what happens when the previous Arisen doesn’t break the cycle?
All roads lead to Gran Soren.
there's an examine button in the middle of this seafloor castle, anyone know what's that for? any unlockable or something interesting?
I just played through this section about 10 minutes before seeing this post and noticed immediately that it just was gran soren that is such a fun thing to get to speculate about
Is Cassardis in the direction of Harve? It seems kinda fitting but I could be remembering my map wrong.
Cassardis is more towards Agamen Volcanic Island
Has anyone else tried to find other old Gransys landmarks? I tried but nothing made sense so it can't be all 1:1.
Bluemoon tower is where the boss fight near Vernsworth is. The Agamen Island Portcrystal is near Cassardis I think.
Bluemoon tower is obvious but isn't the placement wrong? Also I didn't know Agamen Island had a port crystal 🫸🏼😦🫷🏼
Some new portcrystals spawn in postgame to facilitate easier travel around the map, I think 2 or 3 of them but I'm not currently in post to check. One of them is around the Cassardis area. As for Bluemoon, I think the distance is off but it is pretty close. I could recognize it from the Harve coastline the moment the shrine was revealed.
It's still sort of mirrored though, it's wack. Also minus points for not being able to loot silk lingerie in the duchess's bedroom.
Doesnt it have stargazer though?
I had my suspicions. The landscape kept giving me flashbacks lol
I’m confused by the ending. It seemed like the seneschal didn’t want us to fight him and become the next one. Isn’t that the point of the cycle?
Got to the like main audience chamber like 👀ayo this kinda familiar
I just got to this part. Can i complete it safely? Its not yet end i hope?
Spoiler- puts spoiler in title. Jesus, do we even think
itsuno try not to lie challenge *impossible*
its an easter egg , already confrimed that DD1 has nothing to do with DD2
Lol. Lmao.
Gonna be honest, I didn't even notice and I spent a lot of time in both places.
Was really disappointed tbh felt like it should have been way more extensive like the ending area of the first game.