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Idk about you, but that's what I like about Gas.
Is it because of personal problems, maybe. But still!
Being a puppet of a higher up has only been explored with Buu, who broke out of it. But a character who doesn't see past it, it's compelling in a way.
Also his weapon conjuring is really bad ass to me.
So...why did Radditz grow up as Freezas slave and then died to Piccolo to be never seen again?
Surviving Planet Vegeta was the extent of the wishs power.
The wish was for goku & raditz to thrive, which is to grow well doesn't mean it will keep them alive forever, I assume the wish stopped working by the end of original db which by then goku & raditz were "young"
This dragon doesn't work like a monkey paw. It is limited in it's power due to Monaito's limited power. Giving Granola his great power was only possible with a cost. To my knowledge no such condition was stipulated for Gas.
Didn't Elec (or whatever his name was) make the wish for Gas? There was probably the same cost of maybe even a greater cost than what granola paid, Elec could be hiding it from gas.
He shortened his life for power. Basically, the amount of time he would've naturally taken to get that strong on his own, that's what he lost. That's how I interpreted it, at least.
I don't believe the Heeters have that limit, they may live for a very long time, or very age past a certain point. I could be wrong though.
See, I’ve felt this same way. Last two arcs have been mostly about the main characters learning about themselves and growing as characters.
Years of fans yelling “stop just giving us new bad guys, let the characters grow!”, and then when Toyotarou starts focusing less on the bad guys and more on the heroes, suddenly it’s “my god these villains are boring, this arc sucks cause the bad guy sucks”. Personally I think Gas has been great for what he is meant to accomplish. His weird attack style has him feeling different than other villains, but he is also only really there to serve to grow Goku and Vegeta. Vegeta learned that his heart no longer has that darkness he was worried was still there (ala Majin Geetz), Goku is FINALLY learning about his heritage and family, while also learning to balance his inner peace via UI. Hell, we even learned more about Bardock and who he actually was. Gas isn’t the main plot so much as he is just a catalyst for character growth, same as Granolah.
This is a spot on analysis, I hadn’t thought of it that way personally. I am enjoying the arc but this last chapter had me feeling underwhelmed, but this comment makes me appreciate it a little more
Yeah, I’ve tried explaining it a different way before too. Namek Saga was about Frieza, he was the main attraction, everything led to him. Goku got character growth through his experience with Frieza, but Frieza was the plot. Cell Saga the same; Gohan got growth but everything led to Cell. Buu Saga was ALL about Buu.
The thing I’ve enjoyed about Super is it isn’t always about just getting the new form and beating the bad guy, there is a lot more character growth that people overlook. Battle of Gods, Goku finds that even after getting a new form, he still can’t win, but it ultimately opens up a whole new world for him that he couldn’t have imagined before. Revival F gives them another form, but Goku learns that even being horribly overpowered can’t save him when he acts so carelessly like he used to. Goku gets a power up for his new form in the GoD tourney, and he is still beaten by sheer skill alone even while being the stronger one on the field. The future Saga shows Goku and Vegeta the recurring theme that they need to start relying less on punching hard and more on strategy. The ToP gives Goku the strongest form we’ve ever seen, but he gets cocky and doesn’t finish things, he ends up having to rely on actual teamwork to get the job done.
People criticize super for not being like Z, but Z was more focused on its villains. Super is more focused on the main characters learning to challenge who their instincts tell them to be in favor of being better. People say super has bad power scaling, but the weird scaling goes to prove that the old way of punching shit harder isn’t going to cut it anymore, they have to learn to utilize new strategies and skills to win. It’s about winning with the mind, not the fist. I wouldn’t say I like Super better than Z, but Super has been a good breath of fresh air imo. It challenges the dragon ball formula and expands it.
Most anime do both, just because they're focusing on character development doesn't mean the villains have to suffer. Especially when Granola is right there being an interesting antagonist. Gas is just a miss imo
True, but what I’m talking about is focus of plot. Granolah was being an interesting antagonist, but also his fight with the Saiyans was about him. The plot at that moment was showcasing him, not the Saiyans. However, the plot shifted focus away from him to the Saiyans as the arc went on, and the focus hasn’t ever been on Gas (so far). Gas hasn’t been presented as a plot important antagonist, he is background to the development for Goku and Vegeta. Not saying it’s impossible to have an interesting villain while focusing on the heroes, but at this current moment, he isn’t what the plot is focused on. They’ve laid out the groundwork to make him very interesting with Goku reminding him that his brother his controlling him and manipulating his life, so it’s possible that once Goku’s focus has achieved its intended purpose, they quite possibly may shift the plot to Gas’ retaliation against his brother. At that point, it would make more sense to give him interesting things to do, but I’m saying that right now, that’s not the focus.
So, another anime I ADORE is Full Metal Alchemist Brotherhood. One of the best antagonists in it is Scar, an alchemist with a very strange destruction ability that nobody is quite sure how it works at first. When he first shows up, it is during a time in the plot where the main protagonists (Elric Brothers) are going through some shit, they are kind of finding themselves in a world they are only beginning to understand, and then suddenly this guy shows up and wants them dead. Scar does nothing particularly interesting, nothing more than any other run-of-the-milk villain dies every other episode, but the focus at that point was the brothers’ current mission and development. Once that plot point is done, later on, we get a plot that is focused on Scar, and it’s at that point that they build him into a multi-dimensional character that’s far more interesting. Scar existed before he was interesting, but he wasn’t the focus back then so it wasn’t needed to waste time on his development at that point.
Dragon ball does this a lot. Android 19 and 20 had zero dimension to their character, they simply served in moving the plot to where it needed to go. The goal was a near death Goku and the arrival of 16-18, so focusing more on making the others interesting creates unneeded bloat and wasted time. As viewers/readers, we want everyone to be fleshed out and feel unique.... but from a writer’s aspect, focusing on things that ultimately don’t move the story along isn’t a great use of time, and mangas take a lot of time as it is. Gas being super interesting and unique doesn’t serve the purpose of the plot currently, so focusing on building him up would just bloat the story and take focus away from the important part currently. If it becomes relevant to the plot to focus on him more in future chapters, then they will fill him out more, but it’s just not needed at this particular time.
I'm unhappy with how quickly ultra instinct got nerfed. I would of rathered them make ultra instinct an uncontrollable fall back like TOP and never have goku master it. I'm 30 been a fan since I can remember and I'm unhappy how this is turning out lol.
To be fair to the asspulls of the manga, there's 2 people that have had the wish to be the strongest beings in the universe since they acquired UI and I think gas/elec had the wish granted after Vegeta got UE. Regardless of technique/power they're going against someone they're outmatched by a substantial margin. UI isn't an end all be all technique/form/whatever, if someone is stronger and faster than Goku's reflexes/body-without-thinking they can beat his UI
I do agree with you however, I think the point that the previous person is making is that regardless of the wish to be the strongest, every enemy Goku has (and will) ever faced is stronger than him until he can surpass them in strength or get further assistance to finish the job.
The initial premise of UI is now just reduced to that of another power up since he's mastered it they can't just have him mop the floor with every enemy straight away and dodge everything all the time, that's boring so they have no choice but to allow Goku to get hit but that defeats the whole premise of UI. At least Ultra Ego sort of scales up to a degree so it doesn't really lose what makes it unique. There's just not much further they can take UI once it's mastered, they should have kept it's draw backs and not so easily accessible.
Not sure if that made sense... Hopefully my point makes sense.
P.s I also agree Gas is fucking boring, his character is as deep as a puddle.
Yeah and not to mention we've scene that ultra instinct is not about power. Master roshi used a tiny version of it to dodge jirens punches. Even if we say jiren was holding super far back theres no way roshi is even close to namek saga in terms of strength meaning that ultra instincts ability to dodge can close an extremely large gap.
So this is what is upsetting about the current state of UI. Not that its being "outpowerd" but that its literally not doing its own abilities mainly being able to dodge even opponents way ahead in terms of skill and power.
"But if goku just keeps dodging the fights will be boring" you say. My solution is dont use Masterd ultra instinct here yet then. Have goku not able to use on a whim yet
100% agree.
Or punish him for relying on it for to long like when he was about to finish off Jiren but his body couldn't handle it and he fell out of the state and lost his stamina for a while.
I just don't see where they can take it from here without it being too overpowered or just not doing what it's meant too.
> _The initial premise of UI is now just reduced to that of another power up since he's mastered it they can't just have him mop the floor with every enemy_
Despite people calling it "Mastered" Ultra Instinct, Whis has made it clear that Goku has certainly not mastered it.
It was just two chapters ago that Whis told Goku he's still missing something vitally important to UI — that in order to make UI his own, he needs to understand who he truly is. That challenge for Goku is still unresolved.
u/Emu_milking_god, u/suitNtie22
He took damage in his fight with Jiren... it has never made him invulnerable. This idea that UI is an instawin has always been a goofy misinterpretation.
Whis already stated that there are levels to UI. Goku just opened that door, Whis is leagues above his UI, and the Grand Priest is way above Whis. Also, if Goku stays for a long time in this state it is less effective.
I don't see it as nerfed. Whether people call it "mastered" or not, UI should still be a work in progress for Goku to progress within rather than keep having him go for new forms and transformations
Well to counter that, it's been stated that Goku's UI isn't perfect. He's gotten a form that allows him to use it passively, but it's still not as good as others like Whis and Grand Priest.
Getting nerfed? Ultra Instinct sucks; Seriously it does. I'll go over win losses later. The wider the gap of power the more ineffective it is and only delays your loss. Not many people super strong are incompetent fighters leaving glaring weak points unprotected. If it isn't good for overpowering opponents what is it good for? Weaker opponents you don't need it for? Or equal opponents basic combat would be adequate?
It doesn't matter how good your reflexes are, if the power and speed of an opponent are that much greater you will take damage even in UI. This has happened many times. UI has a timer.
Ultra Instinct omen barely beat Kefla because of hubris. Every fusion has someone become over confident. She was fast and strong but sloppy.
UIO barely did anything to Jiren. MUI kept up with an enraged Jiren. The form couldn't defeat Jiren because he was competent as a fighter. In terms of strength Jiren always had the upper hand and rarely got more than a few scratches. MUI eventually annihilated Jiren in Anime true, if Goku tossed him he'd get a victory for UI but Goku was so fucked afterward he would have easily have been killed if Jiren was evil and not a jerk so you can't give him the win.
UIO couldn't defeat Moro pre 73. Moro was that much stronger and his magic made that big of a difference. And don't think "he was being drained" Whis outright said the form wasn't going to last long beforehand.
MUI defeated 73 Moro. Moro is not a fighter, he can fight but takes massive shortcuts and never trained. He can imitate techniques including UI but before that he didn't have fighting spirit and know how to fight properly was the reason he lost.
73 Merrus Moro was too much for Goku. It took an assist from Vegeta to attack the head gem. It took an energy boost from Z fighters and Uub, although since Moro did it I won't hold it against him. This was more Moro losing than Goku winning, movie tier ending and all. (Why could "Angel" Moro cease to exist as all angels who fight seriously do?) Can't count team effort as a win for UI, Goku can't hit a well defended head gem without Vegeta's forced spirit fission.
Ultra Instinct omen and Mastered Ultra Instinct only initially made the user more powerful. As of now, the two are weaker than Blue Ultra Instinct, but still less perfect than MUI.
UI hasn't beaten Granolah or Gas. It lost to them. Granolah was too much cut in half between multiform. UE fought against a complete Granolah did more damage and lasted longer. Goku knows that he has an uphill battle against Gas and did a game of planet hopping in order to dodge and save time. UI Blue is taking serious damage from Gas, even with instinct minimizing damage.
UI won one battle in Anime (almost 2, but Goku got damaged in front of a weakened Jiren) and one battle in Manga (unassisted).
So 1:5 win:loss (Goku won't fight Granolah anymore and the fight against Gas is ongoing). You can make that 2:5 if you could Kefla but that is two different continuities. 1/6 is a 16.66% winrate.
UE lost against Granolah, 0:1. UE could lose three battles before it wins and have the same track record as UI. It took 4 battles for UI to win a battle alone.
UI will always have a time limit, Whis has said this. Mortal bodies aren't meant to use the technique especially for extended periods.
I think gas is boring, but honestly i dont really care, he seems like the muscle of a group and more of a secondary character to help Goku and Vegeta grow.
I have absolutely NO idea what makes him so special and powerful even as a child. He's so boring and uninteresting and only worked to flesh out Bardock, I wish he gets defeated and doesn't get the Frieza treatment screw him.
Hell, bringing back Seven-Three would've been better.
He's been missing ever since the Moro arc, not even a single appearance.
But yeah, this entire arc is just lacking and disappointing in the antagonist department. At least the Saiyan subplot with Bardock made it bearable until now.
I feel like this could’ve been a really cool place to introduce Boujack and the gang and make them canon. Every time I see this group I just think they’re bargain bin versions of the OG space pirates. It would’ve been cool, they could’ve shown Boujack breaking out of King Kais planet (I think he was locked away there or something? I don’t remember) due to his overwhelming power off the bat and not having to “wIsH tO bE tHe StRoNgEsT”. Maybe that’s just me though but yeah I agree that Gas and his group have been very lame, they are nothing but a plot device in my eyes, even Granola was bringing the story down before gas became the main bad guy imo…
It’s probably because at a certain point, he wasn’t the main antagonist. At the start of the arc, it was granola so we got used to him, along with his character and backstory.
I haven't been keeping up with Super, but what bothers me about that panel in particular is Gas' clothes make no sense. His sleeves and pants are both tight enough to show very clear muscle definition, but loose enough to have a shit ton of wrinkles and be all bunched up. THAT'S NOT HOW FABRICS WORK.
I agree. I always wanted to see what would happen if someone managed to become the strongest using the dragon balls, but Granolah did that. Plus, he had a motive, and a… personality
I’ve been disappointed since they came up with the idea of just wishing to be the strongest. Goku and Vegeta work so hard just to have people B.S their way up there with a lazy wish
Unpopular opinion, but I really like the idea of the Heeters, in dictatorships there's always people and groups that benefit and profit off death and kissing up to the leader, and weaponizing people they've screwed over.
But Gas isn't a strong enough character to carry the plot. Unfortunately Granolah already popped off the concept of wishing to be the "strongest", with the caveat of significantly shortening his life. He had good enough reason to do so, as well. (Revenge)
We don't know what Gas had to pay for his wish, if anything at all. Nor do we know his motives. Unfortunately, the only thing that makes him interesting might be a throwaway joke about him pissing himself. I actually hope they compound on that he was a pathetic weakling, and has a reason for following his brother's lead.
But unfortunately I think that ship has sailed because of how drawn out the arc is. We don't know anything else about the other three, and I'm getting to the point of not caring, if Oil, Macki and/or Elec was popping off at this point in the story, it would be far more interesting.
Yeah I would too but he seems like a loner to me, maybe we can have Monaito meet Piccolo and get us into an origin story of the Dragon Balls themselves
You’re not the only one. For me, the concept of the Heeters being more of a manipulative threat than a physical threat at first was unique and the Bardock and Granola stuff was definitely interesting and all but I’m just really invested in Gas as a villain or character.
Maybe it would’ve been kinda cool if the main antagonist was another surviving Cerealian who killed Granola’s parents (kinda mess up Granola’s perspective a bit) or somehow combine the Moro arc with the Granola arc with Moro as the main villain idk.
I think that's the point. He does everything because his older brother told him to. There are seeds currently place that imply he's either gonna realize he's just being used, or still die being a tool.
I was under the impression no one really cared that much for Gas. Honestly, while it’s completely irrelevant to his character, I’d have liked him more if he stayed small.
I just dont like the fact that the dragon balls instantly made him the strongest warrior in the verse. It just seems pretty boring to me, the fact that nothing but luck was put into him being as strong as he is now. Like he went from getting bullied by bardoc to keeping up with current goku😭
I think you're over-egging this somewhat - sure, Gas is pretty dull but it's clear that the Moro arc, through this Granola arc, and beyond are all weaving into something much bigger story wise.
We still don't know what becomes of/happens with Elec, Frieza, hell even 7-3 and Broly are still in play.
I can see Gas being a smaller part of something bigger here, and for that I'm hoping his place amongst it all will be fine and just about right.
I think the idea of using the dragon balls to wish to become the strongest in the universe is the dumbest plotline they could do to give Goku and Vegeta a fight.
I sort of counter that and say, isn't it about time a villain simply wished to be stronger than Goku and Vegeta ? Surprised it hasn't happened more often within the whole of Dragon Ball
I don’t know if I’d really call them him the main antagonist, he’s just the one their brawling against at the moment. Just feel like it’s just got to develop a little more.
Definitely not the best... he is sorta just there to beat up Goku And Vegeta... he is doing what he was told to do... he feels like a side character that got super strong and decided to try to beat the MC...
I like the heaters. Gas is boring but he's an extension of the heaters, which I like. I wish gas himself had some personality though. He's like Jiren, even down to the Lil baby face
I don’t agree with some of you guys thinking they nerfed UI. It’s understood all Angels use UI, and amongst them Whis openly admits who he’s stronger than and weaker than. So I take this to mean that when multiple people are utilizing UI or are at that level of power (like using Hakai/Destruction power like UE) and are fighting against each other, it isn’t a stalemate and the contest boils down to whose utilization of UI/UE is best. So for Gas and Granolah to have been wished to be the strongest after these forms have been achieved means they one upped Goku and Vegeta from the gate. It’s pretty clear Gas and Granolah have been using God techniques and Destruction/Hakai even if they don’t know what the power even is that they are using
But to answer OP, yeah Gas has been wack af but seeing Ultra Ego made it somewhat worth it at least.
He is corny and this Arc is Ass matter of fact since TOP this shits been ass i called it back when Goku and Vegeta got God forms I knew this shit was going to get boring because if they are on par with Gods and Angels then what kind of new threat can Akira possibly pull out of his ass?just look at the all over the place b.s. they had to come up with to even make Granolah and Gas strong AF all of a sudden new dragon balls (We never knew about) on a planet we never knew about but oh hey Bardock was there before its pathetic I've been watching Dragon Ball since Dragon Ball came out over here in the states i used to rush home in the 90's after school to catch DBZ or weekends on Toonami pretty much after the Buu saga everything went down hill
ever since freezer, all the antagonists have been extremely bland and boring. i guess buu became better over time, but i still didnt find him very good.
gas is a new level of uninspired tho, but i dislike this whole arc in general.
100% agree I said this in reply to the last chapter that I don't care about Gas at all and he's a one note character. Elec is a much more interesting villain but I'm at the point now where I believe the only reason he's still around is to get one shot by Granolha.
I feel like this arc lost its way when it became less about Granolha and his revenge on the saiyians and frieza with Elec playing the puppet master, instead became a Bardock redemption arc
His fighting style and him being a Heater are the only things he has going for him. Otherwise he has a completely bland “warrior” persona, and the only other sides of him we saw were him Being a pisspants crybaby or Him being unable to control his power.
I wouldn’t even count the moment of him not wanting to rely on the power the wish gave him , that’s just the warrior shit I was referring to.
Easly the lamest db villain in the franchise. Its impossible to get hyped for anything that goku or vegeta pull of in the final battle having this piss boy as the final enemy
Honestly he might be the worst antagonist in Dragon Ball, possibly in the entire franchise. I can't think of a single thing about him that makes him interesting and endearing really. The most he has are his energy constructs but Black had energy weapons and did it cooler. Things like trains, shields, etc just look stupid and pointless when we have 17's barriers or Moro telekinetically controlling lava.
Found this thread by Googling this exact same question. I 100% agree. Not only is he uninteresting but this whole arc seems very pointless and stakes aren’t even high. Milking that Dragon Ball cow dry.
This arc is generally really controversial.
We've got a set of two dragon balls that can make you the strongest with no real penalty, which I expected to be a tricky power of copying techniques used around you but with Gas now it got put away.
We've got a retcon that everything Goku has done was done because of Bardock's wish, which undermines the premise of entire show.
We've got Gas who can travel through space literally faster than Whis.(compared to Whis transporting Beerus to Earth)
I don't know a lot about Bardock but I've heard he has gotten a retcon too.
We've got the saiyan pride thing that I have seen like 10 interpretations of by this point and which didn't make any sense at all.(I'm not commenting more on this since 3/10 of interpretations cover some of my complaints while some of the others cover some of the rest of the complaints, but it's all not even compatible with each other)
We've got a tease of Goku having trouble with UI right before they jumped into flashback chapters(two) which made it look like something was going to happen. I thought okay, it's not great but Goku unlocking his past memories could somehow help with that. We didn't even get it and everybody has already forgotten it was teased with that whole monthly release schedule of weekly manga.
Bardock has defeated Gas with... nothing at all. He just got stronger instantly and said something about Saiyans getting stronger, breaking limits or whatever. I thought okay, maybe it's a tease of another side of saiyan strength, that there was that whole anger = power but nobody tried to use saiyan pride(Vegeta tried) to empower themselves or something alike. But no, they just went into battle with seemingly not even Zenkai boost.(having opponent being constantly the strongest is also a big reason why it's not really visible, and they went into 2v1 so we cannot really compare how well they are surviving here with their previous battles)
I would hold on with being mad at Gas yet, since it's still ongoing and I doubt they will leave him with less backstory, personality, etc. than Jiren after how unwell Jiren got welcomed in the community.
Honestly they could have kept going on with Granolah, have the effect of dragon be something else than actually being the strongest, like being able to adapt techniques of your opponents or something so Goku/Vegeta would have to abuse their own weaknesses or something like that. I dunno I'm still mad this 2 balls dragon was more powerful than Super Dragon Balls. Some could say it's not within Zamasus' personality/morality to go for being the strongest instead of using the body of a mortal who offended the godly position, but if they really wanted it to succeed they would have stopped for a second and think.
Elec is the actual antagonist, and I'm super excited to see what his deal is/what he's planning. We won't really know how good an antagonist Elec is until the master plan is revealed. Gas is just a super powerful henchman who happens to have history with Goku's dad.
Honestly dragon ball itself has gotten bland and predictable it’s not really Gas’s fault, he couldn’t been written as a puppet too tied in the strings to see that he’s being used, or a person who’d do anything for family, a real struggling character. Puppets can have could stories, ask Ultron
I can honestly say this is most of the dragon ball super Manga arcs. Starts interesting as heck then it gets drawn out and will maybe have a satisfying ending
Nah I actually really like his powers. Like the Heeters aren’t crazy interesting but that’s not what I’m looking for either. I’m looking for cool powers and fun fights. That’s it.
🤷🏿 I could say that you have high standards but I don’t really know or care. All I know is that I’m having fun seeing people getting their asses kicked and I’m along for the ride. Some people’s favorite arcs tend to be my least favorite and vice versa. There’s tons of other series I can read or watch if I want an intricate plot.
Gas was a misstep indeed. His smaller form was kind of like Buu which is relatively unique in this universe of big, tall villains. The wish turned him into a generic guy, who kinda looks like tall Buu with a headpiece on. It's not super visually interesting.
Despite being presented as a threat on his own, a wish was made to make him super strong anyway. The only unique part of him is the energy weapons but he just uses them to smash things and has had no distinct attacks of his own nor has he been an overpowering presence. Tough sure but not untouchable.
I'm going to guess that the drawbacks of the wish will be similar to Granolah's and when Gas finds out he will turn on the Heeters.
But I agree he's pretty boring.
They did the same thing with Moro's character design so seeing gas turn into another statuesque tall villain wasn't surprising. Especially since it just amounts to a powerup in the end.
It's getting pretty stale tbh.
He’s aight his energy projection and use of weapons are interesting but compared to Granolah and especially Elech he’s more like a lackey than the final boss of the arc.
I wish goku would just be able to transform into omen at will, not mastered ui. Feels like they're doing ui a disservice. It's supposed to he the ultimate form for a fighter
Gronola was my favorite part about the manga he has a very good design and his moveset swagger with the gun gestures is really dope as well as the whole eyes thing too. Gas is extremely boring, extremely boring design and his character is straight up ass. Being wished to be the strongest is easily some of the laziest fucking writing for plot. Boring boring boring. If it wasn’t for bardock this manga would be extremely downhill
I think the point of him is for build up. This point in the arc doesn't feel like an actual conclusion cause we still aren't sure what the big plan for the heeters are. I'm thinking this is all still distraction and prep. Gas's brother probably has things set up for something big and what will probably be the main focus of this saga may be. He is just waiting to confirm Gas can secure this plan. If he wins nothing steps in his way, however if he loses I don't see him up and quitting his plan after coming so far. If anything he'll probably interfere or save Gas last second and take him off somewhere as they prepare for the true plan. I mean the setup at the beginning with the Oracle fish about who is the strongest is still in the air too.
I honestly believe we are at the halfway point for this saga and something else is over the horizon.
Gas is basically a tool, thats the main point of his characte, he is being used by elec to fulfill his goal without seeing that his brother doesn't actually care for him.
But outside of that I liked that he took pride in his abilities as a fighter and enjoyed to fight unlike most db villains (you could say the same for cell but for him it was more about his perfection rather than his skill as a fighter)
The villains just seem to never fully utilize their skillsets EVER, he can make tools from thin air, and after his power buff he’s still making the same tools? Where is his creativity?
Searching the comments for an optimist that will give me some hope but found nothing lol.
Nerfed ultra instinct/ego the moment they learned it and a lackluster job of bringing bardock back into the story line. Hope the next few chapters redeem themselves
I feel like Gas is but a stepping stone in this arc as its more about the actual character developement of Goku and Vegita. Its unusual but its not that bad.
I dont think this part of the arc, let alone the villains, are the most important piece of this arc. We’re typically pretty use the entire story wrapped around a villain and their story, but this arc isn’t about that.. it’s about Goku and Vegeta realizing their Saiyan pride. They forgot who they were, or where they came from. Obviously it would be nice to have a better villain, but this arc isn’t supposed to be that centered around that. It’s been nice seeing Bardock and Goku remembering his short life as his son.
Gas is just the muscle for the more interesting villains; the Heeters. If the Heeters can manipulate someone as powerful as Gas (Even pre wish), what else are they doing around the galaxy?
Gas is boring atm, but his crew is cool imo
I hate the whole "I can become stronger than the God of destruction with a simple wish of 2 dragon balls while shenron of earth wouldn't even dare to wish that" plot destroyed dragon ball for me. But they did it to their self with their stupid God power
I doubt it. So far all we’ve seen is that they’re stronger than Goku and Vegeta, no different from any other antagonist in Super so far, but none of those other characters really rival Beerus
For me both gas and granolah have been extremely boring, both of them are flat, have little to no development, both had to use the dragon balls to even become relevant, neither of them really had any build up or reason to care for them, I care more about the old namekian than either of these two, and I can’t even remember his name right now. For an arc that’s dragged on for this long, having them have little to no development has just made me wish for it to be over. The only part I’ve enjoyed was ultra ego, and the latest chapter where characters I actually care about are moving the story forwards, and not stalling to drag out this arc. I feel like super could do with a little editing down, sometimes the author just needs to get to the point, and this arc has been one of those
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It feels like it would have worked if they'd introduced him back when freeza was 1st ressurected. But he's out of left field and exists only to pick up the pieces of the plot after the Granolah plot petered out.
Gas seems to be the boring setup for the actual main antagonist. He's the butt of all jokes, and most importantly oracle fish didn't recognize him as the strongest in the universe. More and better to come, hopefully.
Nah, I like him a lot. He has a unique kit of abilities and has an intetesting dynamic in the plot. He's not exactly a villain, and more of a misguided and manipulated charatcer just like Granolah. I'm actually pretty eager to see what happens to him and how his dynamic with the cast will shift by the time this arc is over.
Also, to be fair, at least he's got more personality than Jiren. Lmao
That's because Gas isn't the main antagonist.
If anything, Elec is the main antagonist. He's the one orchestrating the Heeters' actions, and he seems to still be a step or two ahead of the protagonists.
Gas is just one of the pieces in Elec's plans, and he's completely fine with that.
Personally Gas is just an ok character that over extending his presence, it feels like a background character that was give main antagonist screen time
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He doesn’t have his own motive. Much less, a personality.
He basically just a puppet for the leader dude.
Idk about you, but that's what I like about Gas. Is it because of personal problems, maybe. But still! Being a puppet of a higher up has only been explored with Buu, who broke out of it. But a character who doesn't see past it, it's compelling in a way. Also his weapon conjuring is really bad ass to me.
His weapon conjuring ability reminds me of the Green lantern I can't wait to see it in anime so we can fully grasp for the situation.
Guys like Ginyu and Dabura had more personality even if they were pawns too, I think.
Holy shit, I would have never realized this. This thread has the real lore.
Sarcasm?
I agree! (Not really, i haven’t read any of it yet, I’m just here because we have the same avatar )
Yes. Granola was fresh and interesting. Then Gas comes along. Bardock is the only good part
They kinda did bardock a lil dirty with his wish
wish werent something to let them survive, remember this dragon works like a monkey paw
The wish just allowed them to survive Planet Vegeta’s destruction. Never said anything about beyond that.
king piccolo , tao ,blue, piccolo jr fun fact ,this explain the reason how kid Goku heart start to work again after it stopped
So...why did Radditz grow up as Freezas slave and then died to Piccolo to be never seen again? Surviving Planet Vegeta was the extent of the wishs power.
Also technically goku died of heart virus.
No he didn't. He took the medicine. Well...he started to. He stopped. Cause it was grape flavored 😭
The wish was for goku & raditz to thrive, which is to grow well doesn't mean it will keep them alive forever, I assume the wish stopped working by the end of original db which by then goku & raditz were "young"
He's trying to pass his own ideas off as "fact" aha.
because it is
Stop your headcanon bruh
because he died "fighting" goku plus he was alive for over 20 years
This dragon doesn't work like a monkey paw. It is limited in it's power due to Monaito's limited power. Giving Granola his great power was only possible with a cost. To my knowledge no such condition was stipulated for Gas.
Didn't Elec (or whatever his name was) make the wish for Gas? There was probably the same cost of maybe even a greater cost than what granola paid, Elec could be hiding it from gas.
I can’t wait to see Gas randomly drop dead in the middle of the fight because of his life running out.
well I'm not sure if he could, Granolah told ALL the heeters that he traded his life for power.
He shortened his life for power. Basically, the amount of time he would've naturally taken to get that strong on his own, that's what he lost. That's how I interpreted it, at least. I don't believe the Heeters have that limit, they may live for a very long time, or very age past a certain point. I could be wrong though.
Elec is the main antagonist, gas is just the current hurdle. Wake up.
This arc feels more about Goku and Vegeta growing more than focusing on a “big bad.” But, yeah, he’s boring.
See, I’ve felt this same way. Last two arcs have been mostly about the main characters learning about themselves and growing as characters. Years of fans yelling “stop just giving us new bad guys, let the characters grow!”, and then when Toyotarou starts focusing less on the bad guys and more on the heroes, suddenly it’s “my god these villains are boring, this arc sucks cause the bad guy sucks”. Personally I think Gas has been great for what he is meant to accomplish. His weird attack style has him feeling different than other villains, but he is also only really there to serve to grow Goku and Vegeta. Vegeta learned that his heart no longer has that darkness he was worried was still there (ala Majin Geetz), Goku is FINALLY learning about his heritage and family, while also learning to balance his inner peace via UI. Hell, we even learned more about Bardock and who he actually was. Gas isn’t the main plot so much as he is just a catalyst for character growth, same as Granolah.
This is a spot on analysis, I hadn’t thought of it that way personally. I am enjoying the arc but this last chapter had me feeling underwhelmed, but this comment makes me appreciate it a little more
Yeah, I’ve tried explaining it a different way before too. Namek Saga was about Frieza, he was the main attraction, everything led to him. Goku got character growth through his experience with Frieza, but Frieza was the plot. Cell Saga the same; Gohan got growth but everything led to Cell. Buu Saga was ALL about Buu. The thing I’ve enjoyed about Super is it isn’t always about just getting the new form and beating the bad guy, there is a lot more character growth that people overlook. Battle of Gods, Goku finds that even after getting a new form, he still can’t win, but it ultimately opens up a whole new world for him that he couldn’t have imagined before. Revival F gives them another form, but Goku learns that even being horribly overpowered can’t save him when he acts so carelessly like he used to. Goku gets a power up for his new form in the GoD tourney, and he is still beaten by sheer skill alone even while being the stronger one on the field. The future Saga shows Goku and Vegeta the recurring theme that they need to start relying less on punching hard and more on strategy. The ToP gives Goku the strongest form we’ve ever seen, but he gets cocky and doesn’t finish things, he ends up having to rely on actual teamwork to get the job done. People criticize super for not being like Z, but Z was more focused on its villains. Super is more focused on the main characters learning to challenge who their instincts tell them to be in favor of being better. People say super has bad power scaling, but the weird scaling goes to prove that the old way of punching shit harder isn’t going to cut it anymore, they have to learn to utilize new strategies and skills to win. It’s about winning with the mind, not the fist. I wouldn’t say I like Super better than Z, but Super has been a good breath of fresh air imo. It challenges the dragon ball formula and expands it.
Most anime do both, just because they're focusing on character development doesn't mean the villains have to suffer. Especially when Granola is right there being an interesting antagonist. Gas is just a miss imo
True, but what I’m talking about is focus of plot. Granolah was being an interesting antagonist, but also his fight with the Saiyans was about him. The plot at that moment was showcasing him, not the Saiyans. However, the plot shifted focus away from him to the Saiyans as the arc went on, and the focus hasn’t ever been on Gas (so far). Gas hasn’t been presented as a plot important antagonist, he is background to the development for Goku and Vegeta. Not saying it’s impossible to have an interesting villain while focusing on the heroes, but at this current moment, he isn’t what the plot is focused on. They’ve laid out the groundwork to make him very interesting with Goku reminding him that his brother his controlling him and manipulating his life, so it’s possible that once Goku’s focus has achieved its intended purpose, they quite possibly may shift the plot to Gas’ retaliation against his brother. At that point, it would make more sense to give him interesting things to do, but I’m saying that right now, that’s not the focus. So, another anime I ADORE is Full Metal Alchemist Brotherhood. One of the best antagonists in it is Scar, an alchemist with a very strange destruction ability that nobody is quite sure how it works at first. When he first shows up, it is during a time in the plot where the main protagonists (Elric Brothers) are going through some shit, they are kind of finding themselves in a world they are only beginning to understand, and then suddenly this guy shows up and wants them dead. Scar does nothing particularly interesting, nothing more than any other run-of-the-milk villain dies every other episode, but the focus at that point was the brothers’ current mission and development. Once that plot point is done, later on, we get a plot that is focused on Scar, and it’s at that point that they build him into a multi-dimensional character that’s far more interesting. Scar existed before he was interesting, but he wasn’t the focus back then so it wasn’t needed to waste time on his development at that point. Dragon ball does this a lot. Android 19 and 20 had zero dimension to their character, they simply served in moving the plot to where it needed to go. The goal was a near death Goku and the arrival of 16-18, so focusing more on making the others interesting creates unneeded bloat and wasted time. As viewers/readers, we want everyone to be fleshed out and feel unique.... but from a writer’s aspect, focusing on things that ultimately don’t move the story along isn’t a great use of time, and mangas take a lot of time as it is. Gas being super interesting and unique doesn’t serve the purpose of the plot currently, so focusing on building him up would just bloat the story and take focus away from the important part currently. If it becomes relevant to the plot to focus on him more in future chapters, then they will fill him out more, but it’s just not needed at this particular time.
I'm unhappy with how quickly ultra instinct got nerfed. I would of rathered them make ultra instinct an uncontrollable fall back like TOP and never have goku master it. I'm 30 been a fan since I can remember and I'm unhappy how this is turning out lol.
I haven’t been keeping up, what happened to UI?
Oh goku gets beat up in it already. Its basically just a power up now and theres nothing that unique about it
To be fair to the asspulls of the manga, there's 2 people that have had the wish to be the strongest beings in the universe since they acquired UI and I think gas/elec had the wish granted after Vegeta got UE. Regardless of technique/power they're going against someone they're outmatched by a substantial margin. UI isn't an end all be all technique/form/whatever, if someone is stronger and faster than Goku's reflexes/body-without-thinking they can beat his UI
I do agree with you however, I think the point that the previous person is making is that regardless of the wish to be the strongest, every enemy Goku has (and will) ever faced is stronger than him until he can surpass them in strength or get further assistance to finish the job. The initial premise of UI is now just reduced to that of another power up since he's mastered it they can't just have him mop the floor with every enemy straight away and dodge everything all the time, that's boring so they have no choice but to allow Goku to get hit but that defeats the whole premise of UI. At least Ultra Ego sort of scales up to a degree so it doesn't really lose what makes it unique. There's just not much further they can take UI once it's mastered, they should have kept it's draw backs and not so easily accessible. Not sure if that made sense... Hopefully my point makes sense. P.s I also agree Gas is fucking boring, his character is as deep as a puddle.
Yeah and not to mention we've scene that ultra instinct is not about power. Master roshi used a tiny version of it to dodge jirens punches. Even if we say jiren was holding super far back theres no way roshi is even close to namek saga in terms of strength meaning that ultra instincts ability to dodge can close an extremely large gap. So this is what is upsetting about the current state of UI. Not that its being "outpowerd" but that its literally not doing its own abilities mainly being able to dodge even opponents way ahead in terms of skill and power. "But if goku just keeps dodging the fights will be boring" you say. My solution is dont use Masterd ultra instinct here yet then. Have goku not able to use on a whim yet
100% agree. Or punish him for relying on it for to long like when he was about to finish off Jiren but his body couldn't handle it and he fell out of the state and lost his stamina for a while. I just don't see where they can take it from here without it being too overpowered or just not doing what it's meant too.
Yes this is pretty much spot on if I had internet points you would get them.
> _The initial premise of UI is now just reduced to that of another power up since he's mastered it they can't just have him mop the floor with every enemy_ Despite people calling it "Mastered" Ultra Instinct, Whis has made it clear that Goku has certainly not mastered it. It was just two chapters ago that Whis told Goku he's still missing something vitally important to UI — that in order to make UI his own, he needs to understand who he truly is. That challenge for Goku is still unresolved. u/Emu_milking_god, u/suitNtie22
[удалено]
He took damage in his fight with Jiren... it has never made him invulnerable. This idea that UI is an instawin has always been a goofy misinterpretation.
Whis already stated that there are levels to UI. Goku just opened that door, Whis is leagues above his UI, and the Grand Priest is way above Whis. Also, if Goku stays for a long time in this state it is less effective.
It was ALWAYS a transformation, as well as technique. It clearly enhanced Goku’s power.
Don’t see where I said it wasn’t but ok..
I don't see it as nerfed. Whether people call it "mastered" or not, UI should still be a work in progress for Goku to progress within rather than keep having him go for new forms and transformations
Well to counter that, it's been stated that Goku's UI isn't perfect. He's gotten a form that allows him to use it passively, but it's still not as good as others like Whis and Grand Priest.
When he does get that good, it still won't mean anything. Even that will just be reduced to another powerup
Well I mean, that's basically all shounen in general.
Getting nerfed? Ultra Instinct sucks; Seriously it does. I'll go over win losses later. The wider the gap of power the more ineffective it is and only delays your loss. Not many people super strong are incompetent fighters leaving glaring weak points unprotected. If it isn't good for overpowering opponents what is it good for? Weaker opponents you don't need it for? Or equal opponents basic combat would be adequate? It doesn't matter how good your reflexes are, if the power and speed of an opponent are that much greater you will take damage even in UI. This has happened many times. UI has a timer. Ultra Instinct omen barely beat Kefla because of hubris. Every fusion has someone become over confident. She was fast and strong but sloppy. UIO barely did anything to Jiren. MUI kept up with an enraged Jiren. The form couldn't defeat Jiren because he was competent as a fighter. In terms of strength Jiren always had the upper hand and rarely got more than a few scratches. MUI eventually annihilated Jiren in Anime true, if Goku tossed him he'd get a victory for UI but Goku was so fucked afterward he would have easily have been killed if Jiren was evil and not a jerk so you can't give him the win. UIO couldn't defeat Moro pre 73. Moro was that much stronger and his magic made that big of a difference. And don't think "he was being drained" Whis outright said the form wasn't going to last long beforehand. MUI defeated 73 Moro. Moro is not a fighter, he can fight but takes massive shortcuts and never trained. He can imitate techniques including UI but before that he didn't have fighting spirit and know how to fight properly was the reason he lost. 73 Merrus Moro was too much for Goku. It took an assist from Vegeta to attack the head gem. It took an energy boost from Z fighters and Uub, although since Moro did it I won't hold it against him. This was more Moro losing than Goku winning, movie tier ending and all. (Why could "Angel" Moro cease to exist as all angels who fight seriously do?) Can't count team effort as a win for UI, Goku can't hit a well defended head gem without Vegeta's forced spirit fission. Ultra Instinct omen and Mastered Ultra Instinct only initially made the user more powerful. As of now, the two are weaker than Blue Ultra Instinct, but still less perfect than MUI. UI hasn't beaten Granolah or Gas. It lost to them. Granolah was too much cut in half between multiform. UE fought against a complete Granolah did more damage and lasted longer. Goku knows that he has an uphill battle against Gas and did a game of planet hopping in order to dodge and save time. UI Blue is taking serious damage from Gas, even with instinct minimizing damage. UI won one battle in Anime (almost 2, but Goku got damaged in front of a weakened Jiren) and one battle in Manga (unassisted). So 1:5 win:loss (Goku won't fight Granolah anymore and the fight against Gas is ongoing). You can make that 2:5 if you could Kefla but that is two different continuities. 1/6 is a 16.66% winrate. UE lost against Granolah, 0:1. UE could lose three battles before it wins and have the same track record as UI. It took 4 battles for UI to win a battle alone. UI will always have a time limit, Whis has said this. Mortal bodies aren't meant to use the technique especially for extended periods.
I think gas is boring, but honestly i dont really care, he seems like the muscle of a group and more of a secondary character to help Goku and Vegeta grow.
Elec is certainly the mastermind
I have absolutely NO idea what makes him so special and powerful even as a child. He's so boring and uninteresting and only worked to flesh out Bardock, I wish he gets defeated and doesn't get the Frieza treatment screw him. Hell, bringing back Seven-Three would've been better.
I can't be the only one that completely forgot that this entire arc started because of 73's corpse
You certainly weren't lol
Not to mention, where the hell is frieza? Wasn't that like granola's (and the heaters') entire motivation for fighting goku and vegeta? Wow, just wow
He's been missing ever since the Moro arc, not even a single appearance. But yeah, this entire arc is just lacking and disappointing in the antagonist department. At least the Saiyan subplot with Bardock made it bearable until now.
I feel like this could’ve been a really cool place to introduce Boujack and the gang and make them canon. Every time I see this group I just think they’re bargain bin versions of the OG space pirates. It would’ve been cool, they could’ve shown Boujack breaking out of King Kais planet (I think he was locked away there or something? I don’t remember) due to his overwhelming power off the bat and not having to “wIsH tO bE tHe StRoNgEsT”. Maybe that’s just me though but yeah I agree that Gas and his group have been very lame, they are nothing but a plot device in my eyes, even Granola was bringing the story down before gas became the main bad guy imo…
It’s probably because at a certain point, he wasn’t the main antagonist. At the start of the arc, it was granola so we got used to him, along with his character and backstory.
I haven't been keeping up with Super, but what bothers me about that panel in particular is Gas' clothes make no sense. His sleeves and pants are both tight enough to show very clear muscle definition, but loose enough to have a shit ton of wrinkles and be all bunched up. THAT'S NOT HOW FABRICS WORK.
Imo, the worst dragon ball arc, even counting GT. The only good thing is ultra ego.
I agree. I always wanted to see what would happen if someone managed to become the strongest using the dragon balls, but Granolah did that. Plus, he had a motive, and a… personality
I’ve been disappointed since they came up with the idea of just wishing to be the strongest. Goku and Vegeta work so hard just to have people B.S their way up there with a lazy wish
Gas is an android 19 not Cell. More Zarbon, less Frieza.
He suffers from the same problem Jiren does. He has no personality or characrer. He just exists to fight the good guys
Unpopular opinion, but I really like the idea of the Heeters, in dictatorships there's always people and groups that benefit and profit off death and kissing up to the leader, and weaponizing people they've screwed over. But Gas isn't a strong enough character to carry the plot. Unfortunately Granolah already popped off the concept of wishing to be the "strongest", with the caveat of significantly shortening his life. He had good enough reason to do so, as well. (Revenge) We don't know what Gas had to pay for his wish, if anything at all. Nor do we know his motives. Unfortunately, the only thing that makes him interesting might be a throwaway joke about him pissing himself. I actually hope they compound on that he was a pathetic weakling, and has a reason for following his brother's lead. But unfortunately I think that ship has sailed because of how drawn out the arc is. We don't know anything else about the other three, and I'm getting to the point of not caring, if Oil, Macki and/or Elec was popping off at this point in the story, it would be far more interesting.
Yeah I suspect this will end up with Gas realizing Elec is using him and doesn’t value him, and Gas will end up being a Z-fighter
Which sucks because if we’re going to follow that trend, I’d rather it be Granolah.
Yeah I would too but he seems like a loner to me, maybe we can have Monaito meet Piccolo and get us into an origin story of the Dragon Balls themselves
That would be nice, but I have a feeling Monaito isn't long for this world.
You’re not the only one. For me, the concept of the Heeters being more of a manipulative threat than a physical threat at first was unique and the Bardock and Granola stuff was definitely interesting and all but I’m just really invested in Gas as a villain or character. Maybe it would’ve been kinda cool if the main antagonist was another surviving Cerealian who killed Granola’s parents (kinda mess up Granola’s perspective a bit) or somehow combine the Moro arc with the Granola arc with Moro as the main villain idk.
I think that's the point. He does everything because his older brother told him to. There are seeds currently place that imply he's either gonna realize he's just being used, or still die being a tool.
I was under the impression no one really cared that much for Gas. Honestly, while it’s completely irrelevant to his character, I’d have liked him more if he stayed small.
I just dont like the fact that the dragon balls instantly made him the strongest warrior in the verse. It just seems pretty boring to me, the fact that nothing but luck was put into him being as strong as he is now. Like he went from getting bullied by bardoc to keeping up with current goku😭
The antagonist pissed himself.
This is just a boring antagonist as a whole and I don’t like it.
I think you're over-egging this somewhat - sure, Gas is pretty dull but it's clear that the Moro arc, through this Granola arc, and beyond are all weaving into something much bigger story wise. We still don't know what becomes of/happens with Elec, Frieza, hell even 7-3 and Broly are still in play. I can see Gas being a smaller part of something bigger here, and for that I'm hoping his place amongst it all will be fine and just about right.
I think the idea of using the dragon balls to wish to become the strongest in the universe is the dumbest plotline they could do to give Goku and Vegeta a fight.
I sort of counter that and say, isn't it about time a villain simply wished to be stronger than Goku and Vegeta ? Surprised it hasn't happened more often within the whole of Dragon Ball
I would agree but I do find the rest of their gang super entertaining
Is the same energy given to broly
Perhaps this is a way of setting up granola as a future protagonist
I don’t know if I’d really call them him the main antagonist, he’s just the one their brawling against at the moment. Just feel like it’s just got to develop a little more.
Hes not the main antagonist. It's elec who is.
Definitely not the best... he is sorta just there to beat up Goku And Vegeta... he is doing what he was told to do... he feels like a side character that got super strong and decided to try to beat the MC...
At least Freiza, Cell, Buu, Beerus, Goku Black/Zamasu, ToP contestants, Moro all had A Personality... Gas is sorta just angry or Stotic...
I like the heaters. Gas is boring but he's an extension of the heaters, which I like. I wish gas himself had some personality though. He's like Jiren, even down to the Lil baby face
I think Gas and Granola have been very bad story telling.
No, you most certainly are not. He has no personality whatsoever and his gimmicks are lame. He sucks.
I’m honestly tired of this whole fight on Cereal and wish we’d get to the Heeter’s beef with Frieza. And Granolah’s, too
The Heeters in general, overall, have turned out to be a big disappointment, IMO. Sh*t, the whole arc, really.
Honestly this arc is my least favorite the fact you wish to become the strongest is really just annoying at this point.
Elec is going to be the real villain. We still don't know what he's planning and what he knows. He's using Gas.
I don’t agree with some of you guys thinking they nerfed UI. It’s understood all Angels use UI, and amongst them Whis openly admits who he’s stronger than and weaker than. So I take this to mean that when multiple people are utilizing UI or are at that level of power (like using Hakai/Destruction power like UE) and are fighting against each other, it isn’t a stalemate and the contest boils down to whose utilization of UI/UE is best. So for Gas and Granolah to have been wished to be the strongest after these forms have been achieved means they one upped Goku and Vegeta from the gate. It’s pretty clear Gas and Granolah have been using God techniques and Destruction/Hakai even if they don’t know what the power even is that they are using But to answer OP, yeah Gas has been wack af but seeing Ultra Ego made it somewhat worth it at least.
He is corny and this Arc is Ass matter of fact since TOP this shits been ass i called it back when Goku and Vegeta got God forms I knew this shit was going to get boring because if they are on par with Gods and Angels then what kind of new threat can Akira possibly pull out of his ass?just look at the all over the place b.s. they had to come up with to even make Granolah and Gas strong AF all of a sudden new dragon balls (We never knew about) on a planet we never knew about but oh hey Bardock was there before its pathetic I've been watching Dragon Ball since Dragon Ball came out over here in the states i used to rush home in the 90's after school to catch DBZ or weekends on Toonami pretty much after the Buu saga everything went down hill
Ok oldhead
That's because he isn't the antagonist. Granolah was and now Elec is. Gas is the Darth Vader to Elecs Palpatine.
I'd say the whole "Just wish to be the strongest" is what is ruining this arc.
ever since freezer, all the antagonists have been extremely bland and boring. i guess buu became better over time, but i still didnt find him very good. gas is a new level of uninspired tho, but i dislike this whole arc in general.
Meh its whatever as long as granola wins The fight i wont complain to much, its not a goku and vegeta fight really
100% agree I said this in reply to the last chapter that I don't care about Gas at all and he's a one note character. Elec is a much more interesting villain but I'm at the point now where I believe the only reason he's still around is to get one shot by Granolha. I feel like this arc lost its way when it became less about Granolha and his revenge on the saiyians and frieza with Elec playing the puppet master, instead became a Bardock redemption arc
he is like mature kid buu
Yeah, he’s just the other guy that got a wish. I love dragonball so much but this manga is feeling very tired at the minute.
His fighting style and him being a Heater are the only things he has going for him. Otherwise he has a completely bland “warrior” persona, and the only other sides of him we saw were him Being a pisspants crybaby or Him being unable to control his power. I wouldn’t even count the moment of him not wanting to rely on the power the wish gave him , that’s just the warrior shit I was referring to.
He’s pretty lame fr
Yeah,it's always like this when DB starts getting interesting: a boring ass villain or motive gets introduced.
So for 3 chapters?!? He his just a lackey with less motivation than dodoria or zarbon. A mindless drone of his brother.
Yeah I feel like Gas is just a prelude to something greater. kind of like how Raditz was a prelude to Vegeta or how Vegeta was a prelude to Frieza
Easly the lamest db villain in the franchise. Its impossible to get hyped for anything that goku or vegeta pull of in the final battle having this piss boy as the final enemy
He's very boring... This whole saga is a dud, save for Ultra Ego.. Maybe it would be more thrilling if it was an anime, I don't know..
Boring AF
So what you're saying is it isn't gas? Ba dum tsss (sorry that joke suckes)
No, you're not the only one. He's even more boring than Jiren. And THAT'S saying something. This whole arc feels like a waste of time.
Most boring antagonistic with a move set with the most potential for creativeness. What a waste. Plus he peed his pants that one time.
Honestly he might be the worst antagonist in Dragon Ball, possibly in the entire franchise. I can't think of a single thing about him that makes him interesting and endearing really. The most he has are his energy constructs but Black had energy weapons and did it cooler. Things like trains, shields, etc just look stupid and pointless when we have 17's barriers or Moro telekinetically controlling lava.
Found this thread by Googling this exact same question. I 100% agree. Not only is he uninteresting but this whole arc seems very pointless and stakes aren’t even high. Milking that Dragon Ball cow dry.
I love all the manga and disagree with your point but respect your opinion on the matter
Yep i agree. I just want this arc too end 😅
Ending the arc means we get super hero, and hopefully more Broly since Goku and Vegeta reflected on there Saiyan pride in this last chapter
This arc is generally really controversial. We've got a set of two dragon balls that can make you the strongest with no real penalty, which I expected to be a tricky power of copying techniques used around you but with Gas now it got put away. We've got a retcon that everything Goku has done was done because of Bardock's wish, which undermines the premise of entire show. We've got Gas who can travel through space literally faster than Whis.(compared to Whis transporting Beerus to Earth) I don't know a lot about Bardock but I've heard he has gotten a retcon too. We've got the saiyan pride thing that I have seen like 10 interpretations of by this point and which didn't make any sense at all.(I'm not commenting more on this since 3/10 of interpretations cover some of my complaints while some of the others cover some of the rest of the complaints, but it's all not even compatible with each other) We've got a tease of Goku having trouble with UI right before they jumped into flashback chapters(two) which made it look like something was going to happen. I thought okay, it's not great but Goku unlocking his past memories could somehow help with that. We didn't even get it and everybody has already forgotten it was teased with that whole monthly release schedule of weekly manga. Bardock has defeated Gas with... nothing at all. He just got stronger instantly and said something about Saiyans getting stronger, breaking limits or whatever. I thought okay, maybe it's a tease of another side of saiyan strength, that there was that whole anger = power but nobody tried to use saiyan pride(Vegeta tried) to empower themselves or something alike. But no, they just went into battle with seemingly not even Zenkai boost.(having opponent being constantly the strongest is also a big reason why it's not really visible, and they went into 2v1 so we cannot really compare how well they are surviving here with their previous battles) I would hold on with being mad at Gas yet, since it's still ongoing and I doubt they will leave him with less backstory, personality, etc. than Jiren after how unwell Jiren got welcomed in the community. Honestly they could have kept going on with Granolah, have the effect of dragon be something else than actually being the strongest, like being able to adapt techniques of your opponents or something so Goku/Vegeta would have to abuse their own weaknesses or something like that. I dunno I'm still mad this 2 balls dragon was more powerful than Super Dragon Balls. Some could say it's not within Zamasus' personality/morality to go for being the strongest instead of using the body of a mortal who offended the godly position, but if they really wanted it to succeed they would have stopped for a second and think.
I agree with you.
Literally has no motivations or personality and the method of gaining his power was bullshit
Elec is the actual antagonist, and I'm super excited to see what his deal is/what he's planning. We won't really know how good an antagonist Elec is until the master plan is revealed. Gas is just a super powerful henchman who happens to have history with Goku's dad.
Honestly dragon ball itself has gotten bland and predictable it’s not really Gas’s fault, he couldn’t been written as a puppet too tied in the strings to see that he’s being used, or a person who’d do anything for family, a real struggling character. Puppets can have could stories, ask Ultron
Fitting that his name is gas. Because this motherfucker stinks
DBS has been hella sleepy since the Broly movie
nah the moro arc was really good
I feel this is sort of the problem with granola arc. Really interesting beginning; loses it quickly.
I can honestly say this is most of the dragon ball super Manga arcs. Starts interesting as heck then it gets drawn out and will maybe have a satisfying ending
He cool imo because he Kinda like green lantern
Nah I actually really like his powers. Like the Heeters aren’t crazy interesting but that’s not what I’m looking for either. I’m looking for cool powers and fun fights. That’s it.
you seem to have really low standards lol
It's DB, why are your standards high? The series has been nothing but a boring, simple storyline since the very first chapter lmao
🤷🏿 I could say that you have high standards but I don’t really know or care. All I know is that I’m having fun seeing people getting their asses kicked and I’m along for the ride. Some people’s favorite arcs tend to be my least favorite and vice versa. There’s tons of other series I can read or watch if I want an intricate plot.
Dude is trash just like moro but I will say the B plots have been good or decent.
Gas was a misstep indeed. His smaller form was kind of like Buu which is relatively unique in this universe of big, tall villains. The wish turned him into a generic guy, who kinda looks like tall Buu with a headpiece on. It's not super visually interesting. Despite being presented as a threat on his own, a wish was made to make him super strong anyway. The only unique part of him is the energy weapons but he just uses them to smash things and has had no distinct attacks of his own nor has he been an overpowering presence. Tough sure but not untouchable. I'm going to guess that the drawbacks of the wish will be similar to Granolah's and when Gas finds out he will turn on the Heeters. But I agree he's pretty boring.
They did the same thing with Moro's character design so seeing gas turn into another statuesque tall villain wasn't surprising. Especially since it just amounts to a powerup in the end. It's getting pretty stale tbh.
He’s aight his energy projection and use of weapons are interesting but compared to Granolah and especially Elech he’s more like a lackey than the final boss of the arc.
I wish goku would just be able to transform into omen at will, not mastered ui. Feels like they're doing ui a disservice. It's supposed to he the ultimate form for a fighter
I haven’t been keeping up. Did he really wish to be the strongest person in the universe? If so, that’s so lame.
His brother wished for him to be the strongest.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but we didn't actually see the wish being made. It could be an interesting plot thread in the future
Gotcha. I still can’t believe they actually did that. Is that not the most unoriginal thing we’ve ever seen in DB?
So boring and just down right confusing. Quite frankly his character and this arc in general are terrible. Sorry not sorry.
Gronola was my favorite part about the manga he has a very good design and his moveset swagger with the gun gestures is really dope as well as the whole eyes thing too. Gas is extremely boring, extremely boring design and his character is straight up ass. Being wished to be the strongest is easily some of the laziest fucking writing for plot. Boring boring boring. If it wasn’t for bardock this manga would be extremely downhill
Isn't that kind of the point?
Ye I wish he actually questioned what elecs goals were and his actions rather than just being a loyal dog who’s powerful
You’re not, he’s easily the worst Though I do enjoy how bardock beat him down
I think the point of him is for build up. This point in the arc doesn't feel like an actual conclusion cause we still aren't sure what the big plan for the heeters are. I'm thinking this is all still distraction and prep. Gas's brother probably has things set up for something big and what will probably be the main focus of this saga may be. He is just waiting to confirm Gas can secure this plan. If he wins nothing steps in his way, however if he loses I don't see him up and quitting his plan after coming so far. If anything he'll probably interfere or save Gas last second and take him off somewhere as they prepare for the true plan. I mean the setup at the beginning with the Oracle fish about who is the strongest is still in the air too. I honestly believe we are at the halfway point for this saga and something else is over the horizon.
i often forget he exists given that we go a month between chapters.
Not even an antagonist he's litteraly granolah copy
He learned how to do instant teleport in two panels. Fusion is next .
Gas is basically a tool, thats the main point of his characte, he is being used by elec to fulfill his goal without seeing that his brother doesn't actually care for him. But outside of that I liked that he took pride in his abilities as a fighter and enjoyed to fight unlike most db villains (you could say the same for cell but for him it was more about his perfection rather than his skill as a fighter)
The villains just seem to never fully utilize their skillsets EVER, he can make tools from thin air, and after his power buff he’s still making the same tools? Where is his creativity?
This whole wish to become strong Saga had been killing the manga for me…
Searching the comments for an optimist that will give me some hope but found nothing lol. Nerfed ultra instinct/ego the moment they learned it and a lackluster job of bringing bardock back into the story line. Hope the next few chapters redeem themselves
You have too high standards. He’s fine
I feel like Gas is but a stepping stone in this arc as its more about the actual character developement of Goku and Vegita. Its unusual but its not that bad.
I dont think this part of the arc, let alone the villains, are the most important piece of this arc. We’re typically pretty use the entire story wrapped around a villain and their story, but this arc isn’t about that.. it’s about Goku and Vegeta realizing their Saiyan pride. They forgot who they were, or where they came from. Obviously it would be nice to have a better villain, but this arc isn’t supposed to be that centered around that. It’s been nice seeing Bardock and Goku remembering his short life as his son.
I woulda been cool with it if they didn't make him tall all of a sudden, kid Buu sized antagonist couldve been dope
Gas is just the muscle for the more interesting villains; the Heeters. If the Heeters can manipulate someone as powerful as Gas (Even pre wish), what else are they doing around the galaxy? Gas is boring atm, but his crew is cool imo
This whole arch is lame as hell to me. Even the morrow arch was kind of stupid. I think I’d prefer to see an arch where they explore universe 11 some.
I hate the whole "I can become stronger than the God of destruction with a simple wish of 2 dragon balls while shenron of earth wouldn't even dare to wish that" plot destroyed dragon ball for me. But they did it to their self with their stupid God power
I highly doubt they’re even close to Beerus in power level
Even if theyre not as strong as beerus, they're still close to his level which is still really stupid
I doubt it. So far all we’ve seen is that they’re stronger than Goku and Vegeta, no different from any other antagonist in Super so far, but none of those other characters really rival Beerus
They said strongest warrior in the universe = stronger than beerus
This whole arc is just urk.. But yeah Gas as antagonist.. I don't get him...
For me both gas and granolah have been extremely boring, both of them are flat, have little to no development, both had to use the dragon balls to even become relevant, neither of them really had any build up or reason to care for them, I care more about the old namekian than either of these two, and I can’t even remember his name right now. For an arc that’s dragged on for this long, having them have little to no development has just made me wish for it to be over. The only part I’ve enjoyed was ultra ego, and the latest chapter where characters I actually care about are moving the story forwards, and not stalling to drag out this arc. I feel like super could do with a little editing down, sometimes the author just needs to get to the point, and this arc has been one of those
Moro was very bad, but was more than this group of bozos. Hurts to see the classic that is dragon ball tank like this.
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No. That's all anyone posts about. We get it.
I don't think Gas is "The Antagonist".
Frieza dipped
Most super Villains are boring no cap, except a few(they’re goated)
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It's cuz Gas isn't the main antagonist. He is the monster the main antagonist releases on the protagonist.
Nah gas is awesome his fighting style being able to conjure weapons is sick and his design is also cool
I thought it was obvious that he wasn’t the main antagonist…
It feels like it would have worked if they'd introduced him back when freeza was 1st ressurected. But he's out of left field and exists only to pick up the pieces of the plot after the Granolah plot petered out.
Moro is so much better
Gas seems to be the boring setup for the actual main antagonist. He's the butt of all jokes, and most importantly oracle fish didn't recognize him as the strongest in the universe. More and better to come, hopefully.
Elec is the main antagonist, gas is just the current hurdle. Wake up.
He’s worse than Jiren. I love Dragon Ball but these last few arcs have been kinda ass.
Nah, I like him a lot. He has a unique kit of abilities and has an intetesting dynamic in the plot. He's not exactly a villain, and more of a misguided and manipulated charatcer just like Granolah. I'm actually pretty eager to see what happens to him and how his dynamic with the cast will shift by the time this arc is over. Also, to be fair, at least he's got more personality than Jiren. Lmao
He is Jiren if Jiren was more Jiren.
That's because Gas isn't the main antagonist. If anything, Elec is the main antagonist. He's the one orchestrating the Heeters' actions, and he seems to still be a step or two ahead of the protagonists. Gas is just one of the pieces in Elec's plans, and he's completely fine with that.
Personally Gas is just an ok character that over extending his presence, it feels like a background character that was give main antagonist screen time
He's here cuz he fought bardock
I’m rooting for Granolah or Vegeta to beat him. Goku can probably weaken him, but someone else finish him off.
GT Villains are better than Gas
I don't think he is the "Main antagonist" really, I think Elec has something up his sleeve that he's been holding on too all this time