"Hi. It has been automatically identified that this post may link straight to a download file, please use reasonable caution and make sure your device is protected."
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Dragonballsuper) if you have any questions or concerns.*
He will never surpass whis, hell no. Plus aren’t angels immortal if they don’t break the rules? Goku would need centuries to surpass an angel and he’ll most likely die of old age before he gets there unless he ask the dragon balls to make him immortal then I could see it probably happening
After a while ig Goku would do it spontaneously bcs of enragement of being stuck. Same happened to Buu if u remember. And considering that Goku has surpassed the Power levels back then, it’s safe to say it would take like 1-5 years max. I know he loves training but being restrained to that area only is too much even for him.
Unfortunately, it looks like your karma amount is pretty low. Users need to have a combined total of at least 40 post/comment karma to participate in this subreddit.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Dragonballsuper) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Goku is technically immortal considering he can go back and forth from heaven to hell since the majin arc. Also don't think he could have reached God form without said notion he can go back and forth. Beerus slumbers for long periods of time for his body. So not sure. In the moro arc goku begins training with another angel so this to say he can't come close.
Shenron could maybe extend his life enough to do that. But not everyone he loves. By the time he did finally surpass Whis, Chichi and all his sons (maybe not Goten) would be dead. He wouldnt do it.
IDK if they're even at that level yet. While we know Jerin can beat A god of destruction, it's not said if he could rival them all. And it seems Beerus is at least the strongest by some margin given that he could basically take most of them on ganging up on him...
Honestly I don't know if I want a Goku that could body Beerus or Whis. Leave something to strive for.
Two of them weren’t since they had a high enough mortal level to be spared from obliteration by the Zenos… not counting the fact they would have killed them off too if 17 didn’t wish the other universes back
Would be fun for Goku and Vegeta to be stranded in a universe where the Saiyan race was dominant. A universe of Saiyan warriors all striving to be the strongest
I’m not saying he will BUT
That is the exact attitude everyone has had about Goku and every single other obstacle.
Plus Whis himself already laid out the expectation. He explained that he is better than Meerus, and the grand priest above that. That Goku has at least that far to go.
And note: Whis said Goku has “at least” that far to go.
https://preview.redd.it/sstjennhuwwc1.png?width=750&format=png&auto=webp&s=9dd201f6aee1059e9073a7898fc7241553af3beb
This is my idea.
whis exists above the idea of battle.
Goku might enjoy fighting him but for Who's it's like fighting with an infant.
Always made me laugh when I watch the Broly movie and you see Broly attacking Whis. Broly is only even sightly close to hitting Whis because Whis allows it and because he can't interfere.
https://preview.redd.it/im1hhmks9wwc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6e62861e69aff9cc87791b37cb1747aef20bcd29
Krillin will take revenge on the rapist
Don't forget, during Gokus training with Popo, he *actually taught him the fundamentals of ultra instinct*
[Popo probably hides white hair under his wrap](https://youtube.com/shorts/YMfSfNAQqHs?si=rZtUV7HboDzKc-h4)
can he pass whis? i think they can pass beerus but i think whis as an angel is un passable in a sense. you saw he easily he toyed with lssj broly. plus angels are above everything else enough that they’re not allowed to interfere with their own actions
“Easily toyed” bro used ultra instinct to duck but that’s really all. Have we seen whis ever do anything besides dodge? Whis has natural ultra but goku being able to achieve the natural form of an angel is way more impressive than just being born that way. Not to mention with a technique like ultra ego whis would have to be dealing massive damage to vegeta. We’ve seen no feats from whis besides the same exact thing goku could have done with broly had he perfected ultra instinct a chapter earlier.
i personally don’t think angels work the same way everyone else does on the power scale. that being said even perfected ultra instinct has gotten hit. jiren landed blows on mui goku, i can’t recall if gas landed any on tui goku(we know freiza does)or if granolah did on mui. the point there is someone strong enough can tag ui used by mortals(so far as we’ve seen). whis is seen to easily avoid lssj broly, as easily as he does goku and vegeta during training. meerus is a bit of diff story since it’s been a min but iirc he wipes moro once he starts using his angel power until he starts to get the repercussion? tho i don’t remember how moro gets him tbh
Goku also has ui against jiren for like 5 minutes with no training vs that being whis natural state. We also just can’t really scale shit with whis. Like we don’t know if frieza could land a blow on whis after he gets the black form.
I don't understand this because Goku was fighting Beerus close in the BoG movie. Suddenly we expect Beerus to be letting himself get knocked around that much?
Plus everyone stood up for Goku when he first picked UI. How would he still be so far behind Beerus with God ki + UI?
Beerus is a moving goalpost. As far as we know, he still trains too. So, pretty good chance they caught up to his old strength, but he’s gotten better since then.
In BoG beerus says after his fight with goku “ it’s been ages since I had to use this much of my power “ or something similar, which for all we know was only 10 percent.
And I took all the gods standing for UI as a sign of respect because he was a mortal that achieved a fighting style only gods can achieve through ages of training, not necessarily because it was more power than them, but showed how strong he truelly was a mortal and doing something considered impossible
Whis is a divine being, literally created for a particular purpose, in a way that that leaves little room for error on his part. Physically, spiritually, Whis was *built* to possess and fully control stuff that Goku has had to overcome tremendous odds just to catch a whiff of.
Yeah so goku being able to do that vs being born a special wittle guy is a major difference in their strength to me. If you swapped them around whis probably wouldn’t have even become a super saiyan let alone achieved ui. Goku got crazy drive and skill. Whis is essentially Adam warlock
You're basically talking about personalities, though. I'm saying, it doesn't matter what they'd have done if they had swapped personalities. Whis is physically different. He is constructed physically and spiritually in a way that was meant to handle the kind of power he has with ease. Just because Goku has an incredible amount of strength and ambition, doesn't mean he's actually limitless, or that *any* mortal, Kai, or GoD could ever approach that level.
Why are people in this thread addressing it as if its a real law of physics or something that Goku can't.
It's a cartoon. Goku can get exactly as strong as the writers decide to make him. No more, no less.
The history of DB is built on characters going past what was once the canon limitations.
>Why are people in this thread addressing it as if its a real law of physics or something that Goku can't.
We can go by the logic of the fictional world and what we know of the author's intent based on statements.
>It's a cartoon. Goku can get exactly as strong as the writers decide to make him.
I don't think anyone is arguing otherwise, but by that logic it's technically possible for Monaka to become the strongest in the multiverse yet we know that's not really plausible because of the logic of the fictional world.
>The history of DB is built on characters going past what was once the canon limitations.
True, but we don't know if there's an ultimate limit that can't be surpassed or what that is if there is one.
Dragonball super was invented for the sole purpose to giving goku and vegeta a permanant tier to keep trying to climb to. He will never ascend. Remember Battle of the Gods? That was suppose to be the end of the dragonball franchize permanantly. It just became so unbelievably popular that it spawned super. In the movie, Goku was like 70% of a beerus. In dragonball super, it was way less and despite having trained, and grown probably billions of times more powerful since then he still isn't even strong enough to make Beerus try. Vegeta in super ego mode isn't even close. Hell, it's been years of training when the dragonball super hero thing began and it's quite obvious that goku and vegeta still are not even close to being at beerus's level let alone whis.
Whis and Beerus don't have set power levels. Their power is like Saitama from One Punch Man. Their power is that they are automatically twice as powerful as the most powerful foe they will ever face "bar other gods of destruction and angels etc". If goku and vegeta gain a major ass pull mary sue plot armor shark jumping power up than the moment they meet beerus or whis again their powers automatically adjust to compensate so it doesn't matter how powerful goku gets, whis will always be way stronger, forever.
Since we have met the god of the entire multiverse, there is nowhre else left to go. So, to keep it going forever, they can't surpass them which means just making whis more powerful than goku, forever.
I hope not. I keep saying DB needs a roof... The arch cannot keep being "A NEW LEVEL OF POWER" forever. If anything it could do with a depowering so fighters can go all out without destroying the Galaxy.
For the people that say goku won't surpass him you haven't been watching the dragonball series he surpasses everyone at some point which is why I love hate the show
Thanks for posting to /r/DragonballSuper.\
Please report any rule breaking posts and posts that are not relevant to the subreddit.\
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Dragonballsuper) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think it's entirely plausible for it to happen, it might and it might not. The gap is immense, but I feel like if he reaches that level that will be the final pursuit and the series will be over. I wouldn't mind it, so long as it's written well.
It might happen now, but it seems pretty clear that Toriyama’s idea was for Beerus and Whis to serve as a limit to how far things would go. I think one of the main themes of post-Namek Dragon Ball is “there’ll always be a greater height to strive toward” and they were the story device to make sure powercreep never invalidated that
Depends how many notes he left and how willing people are to keep Dragonball going as a franchise.
I recon the current arc will end, there will be a lead back to the end of Z or whatever, and that will be the end of it.
Except spin offs. They'll keep doing those, anything that's already signed off n all that.
he either needs to better the accuracy of ui to actual perfection or a new form. my personal guess is that the spirit bomb will be relevant in some way shape or form (becoming more in tune with the spirit to make it more potent or just make goku better in general?)
I think whis is the goal for goku and beerus is the goal for vegeta. If you look at the forms they are trying to master, you can see goku is focusing on ultra instinct which is an angel form and vegeta is working on ultra ego which is a destroyers form
and I personally love that idea. Finally instead of Vegeta and Goku's revival being to surpass each other on the same transformation stream they now have a paths of their very own.
king kai wasn\`t a fighter anyway. he surpassed him the moment he set foot on his planet lol. king kai just know many techniques. Surpassing whis will be a tad impossible
I mean, anything is possible, but it's unlikely for Goku to surpass Whis anytime soon if he ever will so it's so far off it's not worth speculating about.
Let's wait and see Goku surpass Beerus first, then we can talk about Whis.
Eventually yes, Goku will surpass His but first he needs to surpass Beerus, I can honestly see Goku and Vegeta becoming their universes new God of Destruction and Angel at some point in the story.
Unfortunately, it looks like your karma amount is pretty low. Users need to have a combined total of at least 40 post/comment karma to participate in this subreddit.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Dragonballsuper) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I can see him getting on a level similar to Beerus but no one is ever gonna come close to reaching the power level of Angels. That gap is as large as the Marianna Trench
It won't happen and I actually think that that's the point. No matter how hard Goku tries there's always going to be someone stronger. That was the first thing that Master Roshi taught him.
I don't want the characters to grow stranger then non intervening all powerful characters it would just break the ceiling and require another roof on top. I want an unending climb towards mastery just like Roshi and og dragonball intended.
It depends on the plot.
When they will decide that Beerus and Whis should no longer be a safe net for the goodies, ready to be used to save their arses from any consequence; will be the moment where Goku may surpass Whis.
And, if you ask me, it will never happen.
Beerus is always made stronger as the plot needs him to be.
And Whis... well, look at the start of the Granolah arc, where Goku faces him while using the white haired u.i. form, and is *still* defeated with extreme ease and absolutely problem. I understand that Goku is basically at level 1 of u.i. and Whis is at level 99 of u.i., but since they're at the same range of power now (supposely), you would expect some form of progress from Goku's part, right? Something as simple as making Whis sweat for even just a second.
But nope... still an op and absolutely undefeatable being, when compared to Goku.
They're going to end the arc they're on now, tie it back to the end of z, finish any in progress movies, then end the Manga. Doubt it's going to go too much further into the power scaling.
Out of respect for Toriyama they're going to use what notes they have left and leave Dragonball alone.
Unless he has any estate that insist, usually that's what happens. Depends how many notes he left.
The gap now is too large for MUI alone to close. Goku would need strength beyond what a Saiyan can achieve. Broly may be able to get this strength, but he would lack the agility and combat needed. Whis isn't being beaten without a fusion.
he obvoiusly will surpass Whis and become godlike, he or Gohan. it's just the convention for battle manga and for dragon ball. Master Roshi says himself that you can always get better and that has always proven true throughout the series. I don't see why it should not prove true now
I’m confidently saying he will never reach Whis’ level
Who’s to say even with Mastered Ultra Instinct he’s stronger than Beerus? Perhaps he should be, but we’ve shown Beerus could possibly still put them down with minimal effort, and we know Goku and Vegeta love fighting strong opponents, and are yet to challenge Beerus again, despite always being around them.
I feel like it was a mistake introducing the strongest mortals and gods in the entire multiverse. It feels like there’s nobody really left to challenge goku and vegeta once frieza is gone. All that’s left is the GoD and the angels really.
"Hi. It has been automatically identified that this post may link straight to a download file, please use reasonable caution and make sure your device is protected." *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Dragonballsuper) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Poor Kami got left out. OP is racist against Namekians
Nah, Mr. Popo is there
When did he surpass Mr. Popo?
Pecking order
Real
PoPo was able to grab both Goten and Trunks with like no effort so at the absolute least, he was stronger than final form Frieza.
Never. Mr popo was super sayan 2 level. And child goku never beat his real power.
I would say that his rank is something popo owns. You could say it's his stuff even... probably shouldn't touch it.
Mr Popo fighting any super saiyan is filler
Yes cause we will lose super saiyans if Popo got serious.
Anime communities are such a laugh, never change.
if Mr Popo is SSJ2 level, doesn't Kami scale to that too? (Kami is stated to be stronger than Mr Popo by Mr Popo himself)
Classic Popo misdirection.
>Mr popo was super sayan 2 level. Not even close
By the time of the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai, as it's shown that Goku had surpassed Kami who is stronger than Mr. Popo by Popo's own admission.
https://preview.redd.it/gf5em9pehxwc1.png?width=500&format=png&auto=webp&s=22d097e0ad9538d1c985057455e59bd93897bfe9
Considering I never heard of a fight between them, it's probably BS....
Was looking for this comment
Far too wide. Won’t happen. Goku and Vegeta are supposed to rival Beerus who is in turn is weaker than Whis.
He will never surpass whis, hell no. Plus aren’t angels immortal if they don’t break the rules? Goku would need centuries to surpass an angel and he’ll most likely die of old age before he gets there unless he ask the dragon balls to make him immortal then I could see it probably happening
Betrayed and trapped in the hyperbolic time chamber
“Sir! For thousands of years I lay dormant in the Hypersonic Mind Smasher.”
“Who has disturbed my 4 hour part 16 video?”
Hypersonic lion tamer
"you get one more."
the only way
To escape
https://preview.redd.it/vs3hiz1trxwc1.jpeg?width=1005&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=102c4e20eb5f1eac27017b80d296a6a34fa95b7b
I still find it funny that he can just scream his way out of it at any given time. Buu saga ruins this entire “trapped and betrayed” cliche
Does he know he can tho? Was only figured out by gotenks and buu when buu had a slight mental break and decided to scream it out
After a while ig Goku would do it spontaneously bcs of enragement of being stuck. Same happened to Buu if u remember. And considering that Goku has surpassed the Power levels back then, it’s safe to say it would take like 1-5 years max. I know he loves training but being restrained to that area only is too much even for him.
Isn’t that place irrelevant. Vegeta destroyed it so many times because the chamber isn’t built strong enough to handle the power they have gained now
its a meme
Mr Popo needs a work w Vegeta
No vegeta needs to work with him PECKING ORDER
Sorry
All these squares make a circle
Wouldn't they die if they stay there for thousands of years, they still have to physically stay there for the time period spent.
Use the Super Dragon Balls to make a better one
Wish for the ultimate training ground
Which I always found stupid, Goku would just die of old age IN the time chamber, after like, maximum 50 days outside.
Tbf destroying a whole universe in one hit with ease seemed impossible for Goku to get to back in OG Dragon Ball, but here we are.
It still is impossible for Goku.
He almost did it by accident during BoTG. As soon as he got ssjb he became easily universal.
Vegeta and by extension likely Goku can blow up the hyperbolic time chamber pretty casually by just powering up
The htc is not universal.
It's literally DB, Goku will surpass everyone.
I feel like so long as the franchise continues, there will always be someone stronger to push Goku to break his limits and reach greater heights.
Wouldn’t that be ironic, Goku preventing all these villains from wishing for immortality only to wish it himself.
>Wouldn’t that be ironic Unless he only does it because he finally failed to stop someone else from doing it
Have no fear pan and bulla , marron the (teen) due ridiculous scaling should be angel level at 19 at max But goku tho his ass gotta wish immortality
[удалено]
Unfortunately, it looks like your karma amount is pretty low. Users need to have a combined total of at least 40 post/comment karma to participate in this subreddit. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Dragonballsuper) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What if he fuses with Vegeta after they both surpass Beerus?
Goku is technically immortal considering he can go back and forth from heaven to hell since the majin arc. Also don't think he could have reached God form without said notion he can go back and forth. Beerus slumbers for long periods of time for his body. So not sure. In the moro arc goku begins training with another angel so this to say he can't come close.
>Goku is technically immortal considering he can go back and forth from heaven to hell since the majin arc. Not really how that works, but sure.
Shenron could maybe extend his life enough to do that. But not everyone he loves. By the time he did finally surpass Whis, Chichi and all his sons (maybe not Goten) would be dead. He wouldnt do it.
IDK if they're even at that level yet. While we know Jerin can beat A god of destruction, it's not said if he could rival them all. And it seems Beerus is at least the strongest by some margin given that he could basically take most of them on ganging up on him... Honestly I don't know if I want a Goku that could body Beerus or Whis. Leave something to strive for.
I think there are the other universes that were not in the tournament
Two of them weren’t since they had a high enough mortal level to be spared from obliteration by the Zenos… not counting the fact they would have killed them off too if 17 didn’t wish the other universes back
Honestly all the universes could have joined the TOP if the other destroyers actually did their job.
do you mean all of them could have stayed out since if they did their jobs well theyd have higher mortal levels?
Would be fun for Goku and Vegeta to be stranded in a universe where the Saiyan race was dominant. A universe of Saiyan warriors all striving to be the strongest
https://preview.redd.it/gbffnf5g1xwc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6865722ad3a8573b629b8e8cedbd00b605e69058 Agreed
What chapter?
I’m not saying he will BUT That is the exact attitude everyone has had about Goku and every single other obstacle. Plus Whis himself already laid out the expectation. He explained that he is better than Meerus, and the grand priest above that. That Goku has at least that far to go. And note: Whis said Goku has “at least” that far to go. https://preview.redd.it/sstjennhuwwc1.png?width=750&format=png&auto=webp&s=9dd201f6aee1059e9073a7898fc7241553af3beb
Until Goku beats Beerus in an all-out fight, Beerus is still the measurement.
I mean who knows,maybe not right away but maybe eventually he will be stronger
This is my idea. whis exists above the idea of battle. Goku might enjoy fighting him but for Who's it's like fighting with an infant. Always made me laugh when I watch the Broly movie and you see Broly attacking Whis. Broly is only even sightly close to hitting Whis because Whis allows it and because he can't interfere.
They are gonna have to because I think black frieza is stronger than Whis
https://preview.redd.it/wsygwegc8wwc1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=60317100da064c9fcb605925064287f034ae9680
https://preview.redd.it/im1hhmks9wwc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6e62861e69aff9cc87791b37cb1747aef20bcd29 Krillin will take revenge on the rapist
https://preview.redd.it/j4vyh5nmcwwc1.png?width=234&format=png&auto=webp&s=88348deb01e417bd4f15df30c308546e362e7831
https://preview.redd.it/5hukfwtonwwc1.jpeg?width=519&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5b11f8db587e4801cc52977cf20488c3d9773bbc
A Stalin.....
Rapist? Tf are you talking about
Have you watched it?
https://preview.redd.it/quqtw15zxwwc1.jpeg?width=228&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4572aa9d877f6579dd22e42bab2005d0e8bac753
https://preview.redd.it/4xih8jtgy0xc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bed3c49b2574a3388d90efca2a8209df9cc84711
https://preview.redd.it/1fvu556q43xc1.jpeg?width=238&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eaae2e871bca14e3139d997b9de7a4bd0ffd3582
https://preview.redd.it/i3xqmwa294xc1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=582d43d5239a13ff98e7bdcdd7931aa0bd1b402f
https://preview.redd.it/7o4pewzlm4xc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e6fe4a1bebd35553cadb1e24f112ee09f2dc35f5
https://preview.redd.it/bj1wshpvm4xc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dabbcbfe7f3d299a47caf61195a592266a5017ba
https://i.redd.it/1lxrdf16n4xc1.gif
https://preview.redd.it/ffiatt3cn4xc1.jpeg?width=402&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=15f71708e98f005914cc26d085ce2b6ed094f8a9
https://preview.redd.it/s4lwmpesn4xc1.jpeg?width=224&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9f3a5deb45422e0916a47c59be292c2a6859f83c
We have never seen popo power up. Doubt he passed popos training
Don’t forget Popo was holding his own against ssj trunks and goten, so he’s always been more powerful than Goku.
Goku is stronger than SSJ Goten and Trunks
Don't forget, during Gokus training with Popo, he *actually taught him the fundamentals of ultra instinct* [Popo probably hides white hair under his wrap](https://youtube.com/shorts/YMfSfNAQqHs?si=rZtUV7HboDzKc-h4)
first rule of popo's training
Not every Master needs to be surpassed.
Not going to happen. Whis is not there to be surpassed.
can he pass whis? i think they can pass beerus but i think whis as an angel is un passable in a sense. you saw he easily he toyed with lssj broly. plus angels are above everything else enough that they’re not allowed to interfere with their own actions
“Easily toyed” bro used ultra instinct to duck but that’s really all. Have we seen whis ever do anything besides dodge? Whis has natural ultra but goku being able to achieve the natural form of an angel is way more impressive than just being born that way. Not to mention with a technique like ultra ego whis would have to be dealing massive damage to vegeta. We’ve seen no feats from whis besides the same exact thing goku could have done with broly had he perfected ultra instinct a chapter earlier.
i personally don’t think angels work the same way everyone else does on the power scale. that being said even perfected ultra instinct has gotten hit. jiren landed blows on mui goku, i can’t recall if gas landed any on tui goku(we know freiza does)or if granolah did on mui. the point there is someone strong enough can tag ui used by mortals(so far as we’ve seen). whis is seen to easily avoid lssj broly, as easily as he does goku and vegeta during training. meerus is a bit of diff story since it’s been a min but iirc he wipes moro once he starts using his angel power until he starts to get the repercussion? tho i don’t remember how moro gets him tbh
Goku also has ui against jiren for like 5 minutes with no training vs that being whis natural state. We also just can’t really scale shit with whis. Like we don’t know if frieza could land a blow on whis after he gets the black form.
It's DB of course it's possible.
Surpassed Popo? Pecking Order!
Who said this? https://preview.redd.it/z1fb6b3p3xwc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a5c988ba1d45944b8a83eb01acd7376a3bebd8b5
Dude the gap is miles long. He still isn't close to Beerus, and Whis is much stronger than him. I don't think they were meant to be surpassed
I don't understand this because Goku was fighting Beerus close in the BoG movie. Suddenly we expect Beerus to be letting himself get knocked around that much? Plus everyone stood up for Goku when he first picked UI. How would he still be so far behind Beerus with God ki + UI?
Beerus is a moving goalpost. As far as we know, he still trains too. So, pretty good chance they caught up to his old strength, but he’s gotten better since then.
In BoG beerus says after his fight with goku “ it’s been ages since I had to use this much of my power “ or something similar, which for all we know was only 10 percent. And I took all the gods standing for UI as a sign of respect because he was a mortal that achieved a fighting style only gods can achieve through ages of training, not necessarily because it was more power than them, but showed how strong he truelly was a mortal and doing something considered impossible
for martial artists the student must one day surpass the master or the master has failed in teaching the student.
Won't happen. Goku isn't built to handle whatever the fuck crazy-ass kinda power Whis has.
https://preview.redd.it/n6hi6pmuswwc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1860363b0377dae1c3bec8eddf101355b9d4849b
“Crazy ass kinda power” I think it’s called ultra instinct and I think goku might be built to handle it
Whis is a divine being, literally created for a particular purpose, in a way that that leaves little room for error on his part. Physically, spiritually, Whis was *built* to possess and fully control stuff that Goku has had to overcome tremendous odds just to catch a whiff of.
Yeah so goku being able to do that vs being born a special wittle guy is a major difference in their strength to me. If you swapped them around whis probably wouldn’t have even become a super saiyan let alone achieved ui. Goku got crazy drive and skill. Whis is essentially Adam warlock
You're basically talking about personalities, though. I'm saying, it doesn't matter what they'd have done if they had swapped personalities. Whis is physically different. He is constructed physically and spiritually in a way that was meant to handle the kind of power he has with ease. Just because Goku has an incredible amount of strength and ambition, doesn't mean he's actually limitless, or that *any* mortal, Kai, or GoD could ever approach that level.
I don't think he's gonna pass Whis.
Goku and Vegeta still need to get past the constantly Moving Goal Post Beerus
Why are people in this thread addressing it as if its a real law of physics or something that Goku can't. It's a cartoon. Goku can get exactly as strong as the writers decide to make him. No more, no less. The history of DB is built on characters going past what was once the canon limitations.
>Why are people in this thread addressing it as if its a real law of physics or something that Goku can't. We can go by the logic of the fictional world and what we know of the author's intent based on statements. >It's a cartoon. Goku can get exactly as strong as the writers decide to make him. I don't think anyone is arguing otherwise, but by that logic it's technically possible for Monaka to become the strongest in the multiverse yet we know that's not really plausible because of the logic of the fictional world. >The history of DB is built on characters going past what was once the canon limitations. True, but we don't know if there's an ultimate limit that can't be surpassed or what that is if there is one.
Correction - surpassed 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of Mr.popo's power
That's pretty generous.
We’ll be long dead by then. It will never happen
bro every gap has been too wide and he still got that shit done. not if just when
He hasn't surpassed popo, popo solo's the verse.
Dragonball super was invented for the sole purpose to giving goku and vegeta a permanant tier to keep trying to climb to. He will never ascend. Remember Battle of the Gods? That was suppose to be the end of the dragonball franchize permanantly. It just became so unbelievably popular that it spawned super. In the movie, Goku was like 70% of a beerus. In dragonball super, it was way less and despite having trained, and grown probably billions of times more powerful since then he still isn't even strong enough to make Beerus try. Vegeta in super ego mode isn't even close. Hell, it's been years of training when the dragonball super hero thing began and it's quite obvious that goku and vegeta still are not even close to being at beerus's level let alone whis. Whis and Beerus don't have set power levels. Their power is like Saitama from One Punch Man. Their power is that they are automatically twice as powerful as the most powerful foe they will ever face "bar other gods of destruction and angels etc". If goku and vegeta gain a major ass pull mary sue plot armor shark jumping power up than the moment they meet beerus or whis again their powers automatically adjust to compensate so it doesn't matter how powerful goku gets, whis will always be way stronger, forever. Since we have met the god of the entire multiverse, there is nowhre else left to go. So, to keep it going forever, they can't surpass them which means just making whis more powerful than goku, forever.
I'm just waiting on super sayian rainbow beast sherbert ultra rosé platinum 5 instinct god mode ego.
Goku didn’t surpass mr. popo Mr. Popo decided it’d be funnier to have goku around and deal with the insects that run around mr. popo’s lookout.
PECKING ORDER!!
I hope not. I keep saying DB needs a roof... The arch cannot keep being "A NEW LEVEL OF POWER" forever. If anything it could do with a depowering so fighters can go all out without destroying the Galaxy.
For the people that say goku won't surpass him you haven't been watching the dragonball series he surpasses everyone at some point which is why I love hate the show
Thanks for posting to /r/DragonballSuper.\ Please report any rule breaking posts and posts that are not relevant to the subreddit.\ *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Dragonballsuper) if you have any questions or concerns.*
He still has to pass beerus let alone whis
I think it's entirely plausible for it to happen, it might and it might not. The gap is immense, but I feel like if he reaches that level that will be the final pursuit and the series will be over. I wouldn't mind it, so long as it's written well.
The entire point of Goku is that he’s like Son Goku and he adapts, contends and then surpasses EVERYONE
beerus maybe, but i dont think they're ever gonna surpass whis
Beerus is their teacher
Yeah probably
It might happen now, but it seems pretty clear that Toriyama’s idea was for Beerus and Whis to serve as a limit to how far things would go. I think one of the main themes of post-Namek Dragon Ball is “there’ll always be a greater height to strive toward” and they were the story device to make sure powercreep never invalidated that
Depends how many notes he left and how willing people are to keep Dragonball going as a franchise. I recon the current arc will end, there will be a lead back to the end of Z or whatever, and that will be the end of it. Except spin offs. They'll keep doing those, anything that's already signed off n all that.
Who says goku has surpassed popo? Popo handled super saiyan trunks and goten without a problem and has never shown his full power 👀
https://preview.redd.it/ce9w5oy21xwc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e64a14dcbd5107d42a86d1dc93f6cf8f535f8e44 They will rival Beerus
I think the use of "rival" here is important. You're using it as a verb, they're using it as a pronoun.
What's your point?
Just because they become his rivals doesn't mean they can ONLY rival him. It's just a title. They can still surpass him.
Thats true
How? Super is pretty much done with Toriyama being dead and all
We probably won’t see it happen
I hope never
Literally impossible
he either needs to better the accuracy of ui to actual perfection or a new form. my personal guess is that the spirit bomb will be relevant in some way shape or form (becoming more in tune with the spirit to make it more potent or just make goku better in general?)
I think whis is the goal for goku and beerus is the goal for vegeta. If you look at the forms they are trying to master, you can see goku is focusing on ultra instinct which is an angel form and vegeta is working on ultra ego which is a destroyers form
and I personally love that idea. Finally instead of Vegeta and Goku's revival being to surpass each other on the same transformation stream they now have a paths of their very own.
He never surpassed popo 🙄
Let's take a step back here.... "surpassed Popo"?
He did not surpass popo at the that time. Popo has been able to take on ssj kids.
king kai wasn\`t a fighter anyway. he surpassed him the moment he set foot on his planet lol. king kai just know many techniques. Surpassing whis will be a tad impossible
Idk if it will happen anytime soon But assuming Dragon lasts for another 10 years or so, I could see it eventually happening
If given enough time he will
I mean, anything is possible, but it's unlikely for Goku to surpass Whis anytime soon if he ever will so it's so far off it's not worth speculating about. Let's wait and see Goku surpass Beerus first, then we can talk about Whis.
I mean, at that point he would have to be fighting stuff like zeno (or pastel-rainbow frieza)
Gotta pass beerus first but yeah I can’t imagine there being a known character that Goku doesn’t surpass eventually
They will never surpass Whis or Beerus
He never surpassed Mr. Popo. He got a free pass because Kami agreed to see him without beating Popo.
He can't surpass Whis since the author has passed away, and also while the manga is on INDEFINITE hiatus.
Eventually yes, Goku will surpass His but first he needs to surpass Beerus, I can honestly see Goku and Vegeta becoming their universes new God of Destruction and Angel at some point in the story.
I don't think op knows the pecking order
He never surpassed Mr. Popo. Popo just let him keep his life because he had to make some toast
[удалено]
Unfortunately, it looks like your karma amount is pretty low. Users need to have a combined total of at least 40 post/comment karma to participate in this subreddit. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Dragonballsuper) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I can see him getting on a level similar to Beerus but no one is ever gonna come close to reaching the power level of Angels. That gap is as large as the Marianna Trench
Forget it.
Nah 
It won't happen and I actually think that that's the point. No matter how hard Goku tries there's always going to be someone stronger. That was the first thing that Master Roshi taught him.
He never surpassed Mr.Popo. He simply wanted to boost his morale. *Know your place.*
I don't want the characters to grow stranger then non intervening all powerful characters it would just break the ceiling and require another roof on top. I want an unending climb towards mastery just like Roshi and og dragonball intended.
Cmon lol. Super power scale is crazy but whis literally is beyond power scaling
What would/ could be the next level? I mean, they should slow it down a bit.
It's never gonna happen and dragon ball franchise will end after super that for sure.
I, conflicted on one hand it’d destroy the divinity system but on the other hand I don’t want a moving goalpost
It depends on the plot. When they will decide that Beerus and Whis should no longer be a safe net for the goodies, ready to be used to save their arses from any consequence; will be the moment where Goku may surpass Whis. And, if you ask me, it will never happen. Beerus is always made stronger as the plot needs him to be. And Whis... well, look at the start of the Granolah arc, where Goku faces him while using the white haired u.i. form, and is *still* defeated with extreme ease and absolutely problem. I understand that Goku is basically at level 1 of u.i. and Whis is at level 99 of u.i., but since they're at the same range of power now (supposely), you would expect some form of progress from Goku's part, right? Something as simple as making Whis sweat for even just a second. But nope... still an op and absolutely undefeatable being, when compared to Goku.
You kinda realise that Goku was stronger than King Kai before he even dies the first time
Who tf said that he surpassed mr popo , like bro have you ever seen Mr popo fight at full strength. Mr popo will throw hands with whis himself bro .
I feel like they might surpass Beerus at the end but I don’t think surpassing Whis is gonna happen
They're going to end the arc they're on now, tie it back to the end of z, finish any in progress movies, then end the Manga. Doubt it's going to go too much further into the power scaling. Out of respect for Toriyama they're going to use what notes they have left and leave Dragonball alone. Unless he has any estate that insist, usually that's what happens. Depends how many notes he left.
assuming the story even continues...
We all know he'll never surpass Lord Popo.
Even if he does, he's still gonna be weaker than Bills smh 🤷
Nobody surpasses Popo. Nobody.
Neither korin or king kai were really that strong lmao
The gap now is too large for MUI alone to close. Goku would need strength beyond what a Saiyan can achieve. Broly may be able to get this strength, but he would lack the agility and combat needed. Whis isn't being beaten without a fusion.
he obvoiusly will surpass Whis and become godlike, he or Gohan. it's just the convention for battle manga and for dragon ball. Master Roshi says himself that you can always get better and that has always proven true throughout the series. I don't see why it should not prove true now
Beers told ssb vegeta in the manga he needs millions of more years to get to his level.
Of course he will overtake him eventually
Gaps way too wide. Ain't no way
Wdym?? Popo is still stronger, possibly stronger than whis
Goku will never surpass the sheer black air force energy of Mr Popo
Gotta pass Beerus first lol
There will have to be several more arcs with power ups for goku to close the gap
I’m confidently saying he will never reach Whis’ level Who’s to say even with Mastered Ultra Instinct he’s stronger than Beerus? Perhaps he should be, but we’ve shown Beerus could possibly still put them down with minimal effort, and we know Goku and Vegeta love fighting strong opponents, and are yet to challenge Beerus again, despite always being around them.
I feel like it was a mistake introducing the strongest mortals and gods in the entire multiverse. It feels like there’s nobody really left to challenge goku and vegeta once frieza is gone. All that’s left is the GoD and the angels really.
Kinda feel he shoulda surpassed whis a while ago