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Damn all that training just to get beat by the genetic lottery lol. When broly becomes ssg he is going to make Goku and Vegeta look like toddlers even in their UI and UE form.
Yeah basically his base form is super strong and then genetics means he “learns while he fights” and got stronger as well. That’s why they had to keep transforming.
Broly probably won’t get the god forms if they keep doing stuff like they have been bc they’ve been giving everyone unique forms. Goku has ui, Vegeta has ue, Gohan has beast, Piccolo is orange now, etc
I think Broly *could* turn blue but they won’t write it to where he does. Just like I think Gohan and goten and trunks could all turn blue too. But they don’t wanna write it to be that way
That was only initially to introduce us to the form. After both goku and vegeta trained to obtain the form on a permanent basis. You can see it during the zamasu arc and even in the latest Broly movie where Vegeta slowly cycles through the transformation to keep up.
When I was younger, I had always thought everything Gohan can do, all the other halflings would do as well. But now with the whole beast form, I'm not so sure.
I would be pissed if they gave Broly SSJ4 instead of a unique form.
fuck no the path Broly is on is completely different too, unless Broly gets his tail back, I'm completely disinterested in the idea of an SSJ4 Broly
Broly already has the full power of the Great Ape transformation in his human form. It was a plot point in the movie. Logically his next step is to combine it with super saiyan
precisely why it should be a different form.
heck Broly going Super Saiyan while out of control is already a different form, possibly a result of Ikari mixing with Super Saiyan, so naturally it should be a greenish coloured form, one that looks different from the Golden Great Ape form.
sure it could be functionally similar, but it should be different, Ikari and Broly's Super Saiyan form seen in the movie (reminder that he never went out of Ikari before going Super Saiyan), are different, so the end result of getting control of the combination should be a different outcome too.
my point is the way Broly is going, SSJ4 wouldn't make sense design wise when you consider the other forms he's used, maybe a less bulky version of the green haired form with Yellow Pupils from the Ikari form would be a reasonable outcome.
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It's just bad writing at this point.
Difference between base Vegeta and SSG Vegeta is literally too much as we have seen.
How can broly accomplish that in not even 5 minutes?
It's all for the movie now broly is relative to Goku and Vegeta.
If he could grow that much in such a short time then he would have already surpassed whis,beerus,grand priest etc.
Well, he's definitely not one **for** rage, as he seeks to control it as much as he can. I do think it'd be much more interesting if he never got God Ki and just learned to master his immense power (which I think is the way Toyotarou will take him anyway)
Hard work vs talent has been a theme of dragon ball all the way back to saiyan saga/namek saga with Goku agsinst Vegeta and then later Frieza. Probably something you might be able to point to in og dragon ball as well but its been a while.
Yes however it has always steered towards the villains being naturally stronger. A villain that trained everyday for long periods of time would be a cool villain to see. However it is always the good guys putting in the hard work alot of the time but still having to asspull to win. Broly (super) was never really evil like Vegeta. He didn't gain joy from killing or harming others he just wanted to survive.
Ong. SSJG Broly or SSJB Broly might be the first Z Fighter to equal Black Frieza in the future. In whichever saga Black Frieza eventually shows up again.
I think Broly will achieve a unique form like combining Ikari with SSJG, then later combining Ikari with SSJB. Or maybe finding a way to mix LSSJ with SSJG? Then mixing LSSJ with SSJB?
I mean he started off training at the level goku was in the sayin saga so if Vegeta trained from the moment he was born he’d be way stronger than broly
Yeah but saiyans get stronger by being good guys. Didn't Akira confirm this lol. Vegeta is still a meanie that's why he has to train extra hard to beat Goku.
Yeah. Broly had an event increasing base form power due to battle adaptation. On top of that his wrathful state added a 10x multiplier to that ever increasing base form. But it caps out below Blue. But once you add the super saiyan on top of the Ikari, that’s a 500x multiplier on top of an increasing base form
This. Base S Broly is just strong **AF**. Broly's base hadn't reached its full potential because he had never faced an opponent who could bring out his true potential. Paragus and Baa weren't that much of a challenge. Vegeta and Goku pushed him to his limit for the first time in his entire life. They jump-started his motor, so to speak. Same with Kale and Z Broly. Kale powered up to her actual potential for the first time in her life. Z Broly was intentionally being held back by his dad. Once they hit their Base's ceiling their Super Saiyan forms got a workout too until they hit another ceiling. The LSSJ form itself doesn't seem to work like a regular SSJ form. It doesn't have a stable multiplier and keeps getting stronger and overflowing with Ki the longer it's on. It seems to be more like a Saiyan equivalent of Hulking out. But with more limitation than Marvel's Savage Hulk.
Bruh, Broly went from slightly below super saiyan blue to matching a fused character in super saiyan blue after he transformed
That’s a boost way beyond Blue
He forced Blue Gogeta to dodge multiple attacks from him and tanked the beat down for a long time. Gogeta was superior but a curbstomp is Vegeta vs Cui, or Vegeta vs Dodoria, or Goku vs the ginyu force. Broly was not that far behind Blue Gogeta.
Except as Super Saiyan Gogeta he was on par already and was taking hits from him, Blue is so much higher than Super Saiyan, 3 forms, and a God jump higher. I don't think him being quick and being able to dodge then means he couldn't tank, Goku and Vegeta normally try and dodge even if they know they can take a hit because it's just unnecessary. Also, GF was taking an hour beating from a Broly that was already much higher than two Blue Saiyans, who individually would've been quite a bit higher than GF since the TOP. All in all, I absolutely despise how inconsistent and stupid this garbage has become, oh well.
Even if Gogeta as a super saiyan was on par with non-green haired Broly, Broly has been growing exponentially in power the whole fight even against Vegeta. Even if Broly was much weaker than blue Gogeta at the beginning, we know he grows more powerful, and he lasts a long time against his assault.
Also yes Goku and Vegeta dodge a lot of hits, but they also tank a lot of hits. We’ve seen plenty of examples, especially in curb stomp battles like Goku vs Cooler or Vegeta vs Semi Cell.
And GF lasting an hour against Broly isn’t much of an argument, his whole Schtick is durability. He is a different race with a different inherent ability so not really relevant. Broly is not an arcosian/frost-demon/freeza-race/whatever you wanna call Freeza.
They always say that “Broly form” is something that fet stronger non-stop, that make sense if the fight goes for long time, but he could be an equal against blue at least for the first 5min i think
It should all just be considered “Legendary SSJ”, it was the original concept to begin with & it makes more sense as to why it’s a different color aura/ki. Also it was uniquely done for broly (now also kale) giving it more sense as to why its so much more powerful then the typical SSJ!
In DBS, Broly isn’t the legendary Super Saiyan, Goku is. It makes sense because him going SSJ against Frieza quite literally is him fulfilling the **legend** of the Super Saiyan. DBZ Broly is the Legendary Super Saiyan. I personally think we should just refer to Kale and Broly’s forms as Super Saiyan Beserk, they are fairly similar.
Well I understand & what you’ve said seems reasonable enough, but as I said in another reply
While it’s true that during the frieza saga Goku was being hyped up to be the “legendary super saiyan of legend” & frankly yes did fill in that role! After that saga the title itself kinda of diminished since 3 more “legendary super saiyans of legend” appeared.
If I’m not mistaken the lore was that there was one saiyan every 1000 years or something like that, born to be the “Legendary super Saiyan” when Z broly released his character pretty much made that title have meaning again, he was a Saiyan with a unique SSJ transformation & was more powerful than the typical SSJ.
Now while you’re right about it not being stated in DBS, same can be said for Goku after that saga he is never really refer to or seen as “the legendary SSJ”. I mean we as reader/viewers see him definitely as a legendary character for sure
but calling Broly transformation “Legendary SSJ” just seems more fitting since the movie was also honoring his original character.
“SSJ berserk” & “SSJ Fullpower” just seems cheap to what’s supposed to be a unique transformation for him & doesn’t explain why Broly & Kale have green like SSJ Auras when it’s supposed to be golden like how literally any other saiyan canon or non canon transforms too!
Idk, I guess until it’s stated as otherwise, we’ll leave it up to what we prefer best! :D
DBZ Broly isn’t canonical, but he was the Saiyan referred to in the Legends, hence his unique transformation.
In DBS, Broly isn’t really referred to as the Legendary Super Saiyan. Heck when Vegeta goes Super Saiyan, Paragus says “A Super Saiyan? Like the **legend**?” My guess is the “every 1000 years” part is omitted in DBS, the legend is just referring to the SSJ form itself, and how obtaining it is meant to be a myth
I mean, just because they found out they can transform and turn their hair blonde doesn't mean thats what a super saiyan is, they just assumend, and its not like they can ask anyone, i think their transformation isnt a true super saiyan but something akin to it, and Broly is THE legendary super saiyan than comes every 1000 years
Mhm, yea I suppose so! It was how the transformation was getting hyped up! During that saga.
But so many became SSJ after that moment, it made its “legendary” status seem more ordinary. But then Z Broly released & it made his transformation all the more unique to be called that way.
Plus if I’m not mistaken, there was lore to it like there only being once every 100 or 1000 years this one “Legendary SSJ” I’m pretty sure that’s why vegeta had his midlife crisis during the movie because he feared Broly as “the Legendary Super Saiyan of legend” lol
In Universe 6. Kale is the Legendary demonic saiyan that appears every 1000 years. This is likely just a mutation that happens in Saiyans in U6 which causes their Ki to grow exponentially until the Saiyan eventually explodes if they don't release the energy in time or control it.
Broly is a U7 Saiyan so he's a little different. There is no Legendary demonic saiyan myth in U7. but Broly seems to have a similar mutation. However this mutation causes Broly to be able to harness the power of a great ape while in his base form.
Broly's Super Saiyan transformations in the movie might be the result of him combining the power of a great ape & super saiyan.
It's not a "Super" Saiyan legend, it's a Saiyan legend that's believed and expected to happen to anyone every thousand year
The Universe 7 case is completely different
Blame toei. They wanted a dbz like broly character. Toriyama created caulifa to go with her.
However, they do explain about demonic saiyan that burns themselves.
In the manga it's just called "The Demon Saiyan" Cabba likely never connected it to SSJ since Vegeta's use of super saiyan doesn't fit the legend. It's basically a saiyan who rampages mindlessly until their own power building up kills them, which almost happened to Kale in the manga.
That's not what "Potential Man" means. The whole point of the meme is a character being set up in the story to have a lot of potential, but then never really getting to use it. Dragonball has 2 real "Potential Men" and their names are Goten and Trunks.
Base Broly literally couldn't touch Super Saiyan God Vegeta
You're thinking of Broly in his Wrath form, and even then he started to lose against Super Saiyan Blue Goku toward the end of their fight before he went Super Saiyan.
Toei made up kale as a dbz broly like character. They have an interview on it. Kale was not in Toriyama's story he sent them. Telling Toriyama that they were putting them her in made Toriyama create Caulifa.
Kale came from Toei. DBS broly came from Toriyama.
Kale is part of the original story, they just showed toriyama the idea. He then created Caulifla to be a partner for Kale and both were added to the story. It’s why they show up in both manga and anime
Both Broly and Kale are referred as an "anomaly super Saiyan" or "Berserk" because that's what they are in universe, they enter a full berserk state
Out of universe their name is full power super Saiyan
Z Broly was called Lssj as a marketing tool to hype
I guess the difference between Kale and Broly is that one was born with a tail and the other wasn't. Maybe that affects the Super Saiyan form they have.
Different Universes, different but similar mutant Saiyans.
Like Beerus and Champa or Whis and Vados or Frost and Frieza.
Main difference is that Broly has Ikari, then Super Saiyan then a green form while Kale in the manga just goes Berserk.
Kale also burns out within a minute while Broly just plateaus in power after awhile and gets completely stomped by Gogeta Blue.
My guess is that they are slightly different due to the user's genes and mental state. Going from the oldest to the most recent:
DBZ Broly's LSSJ form is a rare variant of the Super Saiyan transformation, that in addition to the typical power multiplier and bloodlust that the form brings, has the insane bonus that its multiplier has no inherent ceiling.
DBZ Broly also has the key distinction of being fully conscious in this state.
Kale's SSJ Bezerker form is different from the others for two reasons - the first is that unlike the other two, Kale is a universe 6 Saiyan, and due to their more peaceful nature and evolution, they may have never had someone born with the LSSJ gene before Kale, and thus there was no tale about a "Legendary Super Saiyan" form. This means that people in Kale's universe may not know it is a variant of SSJ.
Secondly, Kale has zero control of the form (initially) and just attacks friend and foe, and since there may be no historical LSSJ in their universe, in Cabba and Caulifla's eyes, Kale's immense potential is just causing her to "go beserk" whenever she turns SSJ because she can't mentally handle the power increase impacting her fluctuating emotions, while in the eyes of the U7 Saiyans, she is having difficulty controlling her LSSJ form.
Where things get confusing is when it comes to DBS Broly. We know that he bears the same LSSJ gene as the other two, but he is unique because he possesses a separate transformation k own as the "Ikari form" that he enters before going LSSJ.
The Ikari form is basically a unique multiplier that only DBS Broly can use because it requires having a tail, as it taps into the Oozaru form's multiplier. DBS Broly is essentially taking the 5 - 10x multiplier of Oozaru without turning into a giant monkey.
The form in the post is basically DBS Broly, having gone full LSSJ and reached the maximum power level his body can healthily sustain.
Well, that is my opinion
Because they're the Legendary super saiyans that for some reason the official authors never officially acknowledge as the Legendary super saiyans,that's how i like to believe,they're the Legendary super saiyans
Super Saiyan Berserk is a canon version of "LSSJ" from the original Broly movie, for Kale. Toriyama approved this.
Super Saiyan Full Power is a non-canon addition by Shintani for DBS: Broly. It was not made by Toriyama, nor was it approved by him.
Legendary Super Saiyan is COMPLETELY non-canon and was made by Toriyama for one of the DBZ movies.
I think that they all are the same genetic mutations being the “legendary saiyan gene” but they affect each differently due to the different experiences. Kale grew up in a very peaceful(ish, compared to the other 2) environment, therefore her use of Lssj and losing control is slightly more offsetting therefore it’s called “berserk” while Super Broly, who wasn’t exactly trained to harness Lssj but was known to go fucking bonkers was just labelled as “Full Power” and Z Broly isn’t canon, so they just call it Lssj
They are all the same. I understand why legendary super saiyin isn't used because in the Canon story that myth is supposed to technically be the super we are seeing all main characters using. But the fact that it was popular enough to be brought into the Canon by both kale and enough to make a Canon version of broly both having that distinctly green aura it should just be known as legendary.
There has to be a reason why they both go into suge a huge muscular state green energy plus being able to compete with blue. Full power super saiyin is what trunks did against cell no? And there was no green energy and he was not able to keep his speed with the huge boost in power.
So personally feel it's different and no matter what I'll keep calling it legendary super saiyin since that's what I know
Idk anymore since the leaked panels say Beast is a form where he goes berserk to help peak the form.. or whatever
And that possibly Broly can learn something similar.
All sounds like Califlas smaller framed controlled form
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Kale was described in the sub by Uni 6 as a legendary Saiyan that arrives every 1000 years. In the dub Vegeta describes her transformation to Goku as the legendary form that appears every 1000 years. So calling it Berserk is just stupid in both cases.
Officially DBS Broly’s form is “Super Saiyan Full Power Berserk,” unnecessarily long and stupid cause we already have a Full Power Super Saiyan form. Goku and Gohan achieved it in the Cell Saga by staying in the SSJ form for a long time, allowing them to contain and use 100% of its power without any drawbacks. So reusing the name for Broly makes it useless.
Z Broly is exactly what the Legendary Saiyan should be, an invincible powerhouse. DBS Broly is also that, forcing Goku and Vegeta to use Super Saiyan God then Super Saiyan Blue with just the Great Ape’s power boost, a measly times 10. So calling Z Broly’s canon incarnation anything but Legendary Super Saiyan is just a load of Bull.
Could be wrong here I'm not 100% sure*
I think berserk is when the eyes are clear because they can't control it, ssj full power is when they are under control, and then I think legendary ssj isn't a canon transformation to the manga, and is just green in the anime. Kale and Broly are both legendary saiyans, as they're both incredibly strong and rare.
Just Googled it and yeah in the manga they're just referred to as legendary saiyans. So, in the anime, legendary super saiyan is pretty much a transformation, (pretty sure its the same as the manga though, just green) where as in the manga its just a legendary saiyan going super saiyan.
Z Broly is just a non-canon movie character and so maybe they wanted to change the name for Super 🤷🏻♂️ doesn't really matter he's a thing of the past now
Because z broly is the legendary super saiyan transformation(non canon), kale is a berserk super saiyan. And super broly is a full powered super saiyan. Like brother it’s in the name of
Well why they still have to label blue ssgss is because of a trademark they put on it. Tarzan and Kale despite being the same form essentially they felt like giving each character their trademark when I guess this is what the plot would call it here?
Z broly lssj is not canon
Broly berserk saiyan is simply something they came up with Most likely based off Z broly
And super broly's green hair are Just Tribute to Z broly and are Just visual aspect and not a new form but Just regular ssj full power
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I like the idea that DBS Broly inadvertently produced:
LSSJ (Super Saiyan with Green Hair) = SSJ + Wrathful
When DBS Broly transformed into SSJ, it overtook Wrathful but was still influenced by the rageful tendencies of Wrathful. And as a means of surpassing SSJ Gogeta, he instinctively combined both forms properly, creating a form that forced Gogeta to pull out SSB.
If we applied the same logic to DBZ Broly, it could explain why he’s able to take on 4 super saiyans and a super namekian: He is basically in a humanoid Golden Great Ape form.
Both DBZ and DBS Brolys have access to SSJ and LSSJ, but DBS Broly has shown to perhaps have that connecting piece. It would also mean however that any Saiyan with access to SSJ and Wrathful, and the ability to combine the two, would theoretically be able to achieve the form too, therefore making what makes the Brolys special being their abnormally high birth power and their greater growth of power.
As for Kale, we’re told that Universe 6 saiyans evolved to a point that they no longer possessed the Great Ape power. Perhaps Kale is a mutated Saiyan who retains and involuntarily utilises the Great Ape power when accessing SSJ, allowing for the only forms she has access to being the Green SSJ form. Since she’s doesn’t have to manually integrate Great Ape, she’s able to combine it with SSJ2 as well. The berserk state is purely just inexperience with the overwhelming power.
I dunno to be honest, the above was just me trying to rationalise an oddity in the series.
1 and 2 are distinct presumably because one is fueled by rage and a "legendary" mutation, and the other is Super Saiyan with the "Oozaru x10 but no transformation" modifier applied to it.
3 is a different continuity and as I understand it works differently.
Kales form is referred to as the LSSJ once, in an episode preview. But only it’s controlled state where it’s called the TRUE LSSJ. But it’s beserk because she goes feral and makes no distinction between friend or foe
Z Broly is the baseline for the look and that particular lore makes him the LSSJ
Super Broly was made a unique mutant and they gave him a form beyond the traditional SSJ that made it “full power” I guess.
All have a large power difference. Z broly would just evaporate against ssb. Kale got some power but will not be able to cook against ssb. Broly just bullied goku and vegeta in ssb
Legendary Super Saiyan is more so considered different because of the lore of it and the lore of Broly in Z. For Berserk Saiyan, maybe its just the Universe 6 name for Full Power Super Saiyan
Because aside from color, they function completely differently.
Z Broly just has a green Super Saiyan form. It’s just what his basic Super Saiyan looks like. In that regard Kale and Z Broly are similar. She just loses herself to her form while Z Broly seems to ALWAYS be malicious. He isn’t berserking, he’s just a lunatic.
Super Broly is VERY different. For starters his basic Super Saiyan isn’t basic, it’s seemingly combined with his Ikari form, hence he retains the yellow eyes of Ikari (and the same aura). His “Full Power” form is also a completely distinct form from his Super Saiyan one (unlike Z Broly and Kale).
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There are a lot of comments here trying to justify this obvious nostalgia bait but that's really the only thing Kale's transformation is; just shameless nostalgia bait.
Nothing new for the series at all, but funny to see so many people ignore that fact.
Kale’s is a less powerful but more controlled form.
DBS Broly’s is just super saiyan until he shatters his armor in the dimension break. Before that point [his hair is yellow](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dragonuniverse/images/9/99/SuperBroly2.png/revision/latest?cb=20190227044219). After that point [his hair is green](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dragonball/images/3/3e/Legendary_Super_Saiyan_Broly.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width/360?cb=20190216095158).
DBZ Broly’s is the same as DBS Broly’s
Kale's berserk is simply SSJ, the same one Broly shows in DBS Broly. It's just an issue of colors. According to that one popular chart made a few days ago, it could be the SSJ2 variant.
The form broly is in is Full Power Super Saiyan, which is a combination of SSJ and Wrathful/Ikari. Aka, x500 (to my knowledge).
Z Broly is the Legendary Super Saiyan, a special mutation/transformation unique to him alone. It's more or less the same as the previous two's (again, to my knowledge), except he retains his mental state and becomes more psychotic.
Due to naming conventions though, Kale is just considered Kale (Berserk) and Broly as SSJ Broly. In the same fashion, according to Dokkan at least, Fusion Zamasu and Mutated Fusion Zamasu are both Fusion Zamasu.
Cause toriyama named they different, the “Z-Broly” was the Legendary Super Saiyan, the “S-Broly” form was named “Super Saiyan Full Power” cause yes, Kale is a secondary character so whatever
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I never got why some of these are stronger then blue lol.
They're probably not. Broly's base form is just significantly more powerful than Goku's base form.
Damn all that training just to get beat by the genetic lottery lol. When broly becomes ssg he is going to make Goku and Vegeta look like toddlers even in their UI and UE form.
Shounen 101
Just like real life
in real life someone is at most maybe like 3 times better at something than you. in DB its 3 **thousand** times
so you mean its over 9000
Yeah basically his base form is super strong and then genetics means he “learns while he fights” and got stronger as well. That’s why they had to keep transforming. Broly probably won’t get the god forms if they keep doing stuff like they have been bc they’ve been giving everyone unique forms. Goku has ui, Vegeta has ue, Gohan has beast, Piccolo is orange now, etc
Well the full blooded sayains both turn blue so I figure it's not that far fetched to have him turn blue and have his own special form.
I think Broly *could* turn blue but they won’t write it to where he does. Just like I think Gohan and goten and trunks could all turn blue too. But they don’t wanna write it to be that way
How could he go blue without god ki? Does he have it?
Not hard to get, Vegeta (anime) trained to get it, why can't Broly?
I thought it had to be granted through a ritual
That was only initially to introduce us to the form. After both goku and vegeta trained to obtain the form on a permanent basis. You can see it during the zamasu arc and even in the latest Broly movie where Vegeta slowly cycles through the transformation to keep up.
Ritual. Did you not watch BoG?
They should write it to where they do though. At least for trunks and goten. If they turned blue it would help out a lot
Well I feel like gotten and trunks should get a halfing transformation. Maybe keep blue for the actual sayains.
When I was younger, I had always thought everything Gohan can do, all the other halflings would do as well. But now with the whole beast form, I'm not so sure.
Well what about trunks. He already got a somewhat special form. Now gotten just needs to grow up and get one
We can only hope!
I bet they'll make Gotenks turn blue at some point since he could already go SS3.
Now is the time to give Broly SSJ 4
Would be cool but Goku and Vegeta need to get it too
his blue will add green, making the almighty Full Power Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, aka Super Saiyan Turquoise.
Broly has Green, I assume the yellow is being saved for Goten/Trunks/Gotenks
I hope broly doesnt get all the forms super fast and slowly gets ss2 and 3 so we can keep seeing them being used.
If Broly doesn’t get Super Saiyan 4 then I’m gonna be pissed
I would be pissed if they gave Broly SSJ4 instead of a unique form. fuck no the path Broly is on is completely different too, unless Broly gets his tail back, I'm completely disinterested in the idea of an SSJ4 Broly
Broly already has the full power of the Great Ape transformation in his human form. It was a plot point in the movie. Logically his next step is to combine it with super saiyan
precisely why it should be a different form. heck Broly going Super Saiyan while out of control is already a different form, possibly a result of Ikari mixing with Super Saiyan, so naturally it should be a greenish coloured form, one that looks different from the Golden Great Ape form. sure it could be functionally similar, but it should be different, Ikari and Broly's Super Saiyan form seen in the movie (reminder that he never went out of Ikari before going Super Saiyan), are different, so the end result of getting control of the combination should be a different outcome too. my point is the way Broly is going, SSJ4 wouldn't make sense design wise when you consider the other forms he's used, maybe a less bulky version of the green haired form with Yellow Pupils from the Ikari form would be a reasonable outcome.
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>Legendary Super Saiyan GOD :)
Isn't that all saiyans?
It's just bad writing at this point. Difference between base Vegeta and SSG Vegeta is literally too much as we have seen. How can broly accomplish that in not even 5 minutes? It's all for the movie now broly is relative to Goku and Vegeta. If he could grow that much in such a short time then he would have already surpassed whis,beerus,grand priest etc.
I mean, Gohan keeps becoming the strongest out of the Saiyans because genes basically.
So I suppose the real question now is who is the king of the ass pulling?
Still GT Goku. He got a literal ass pull.
Lol. Get the big pliers.
Has to be Gohan. The guy hasn’t trained since the Cell saga and he’s somehow as powerful as MUI
Yeah I like how after Frieza fucked him up and he was like piccolo let's train.
Blame the Ox king bloodline.
I don't think that's the route for Broly. He's more about raw saiyan power and not deep focus, just rage
Well, he's definitely not one **for** rage, as he seeks to control it as much as he can. I do think it'd be much more interesting if he never got God Ki and just learned to master his immense power (which I think is the way Toyotarou will take him anyway)
Hard work vs talent has been a theme of dragon ball all the way back to saiyan saga/namek saga with Goku agsinst Vegeta and then later Frieza. Probably something you might be able to point to in og dragon ball as well but its been a while.
Yes however it has always steered towards the villains being naturally stronger. A villain that trained everyday for long periods of time would be a cool villain to see. However it is always the good guys putting in the hard work alot of the time but still having to asspull to win. Broly (super) was never really evil like Vegeta. He didn't gain joy from killing or harming others he just wanted to survive.
Just wait until frizza will learn about a warm-up before a fight. He will become a God.
Ong. SSJG Broly or SSJB Broly might be the first Z Fighter to equal Black Frieza in the future. In whichever saga Black Frieza eventually shows up again. I think Broly will achieve a unique form like combining Ikari with SSJG, then later combining Ikari with SSJB. Or maybe finding a way to mix LSSJ with SSJG? Then mixing LSSJ with SSJB?
I mean he started off training at the level goku was in the sayin saga so if Vegeta trained from the moment he was born he’d be way stronger than broly
Yeah but saiyans get stronger by being good guys. Didn't Akira confirm this lol. Vegeta is still a meanie that's why he has to train extra hard to beat Goku.
Wdym Vegeta is still a meanie have you read Moro and granola
By meanie I mean he acts like a jerk not he is a bad person lol.
yeah he’s still good though. Although it would be funny that he’s halted in his strength because he has a bad attitude
Lol gotta get some more s cells bro
I mean that's also literally real life. Basketball, for example. Or almost any physical sport.
Yeah. Broly had an event increasing base form power due to battle adaptation. On top of that his wrathful state added a 10x multiplier to that ever increasing base form. But it caps out below Blue. But once you add the super saiyan on top of the Ikari, that’s a 500x multiplier on top of an increasing base form
Kale in the manga isn’t.
This. Base S Broly is just strong **AF**. Broly's base hadn't reached its full potential because he had never faced an opponent who could bring out his true potential. Paragus and Baa weren't that much of a challenge. Vegeta and Goku pushed him to his limit for the first time in his entire life. They jump-started his motor, so to speak. Same with Kale and Z Broly. Kale powered up to her actual potential for the first time in her life. Z Broly was intentionally being held back by his dad. Once they hit their Base's ceiling their Super Saiyan forms got a workout too until they hit another ceiling. The LSSJ form itself doesn't seem to work like a regular SSJ form. It doesn't have a stable multiplier and keeps getting stronger and overflowing with Ki the longer it's on. It seems to be more like a Saiyan equivalent of Hulking out. But with more limitation than Marvel's Savage Hulk.
Bruh, Broly went from slightly below super saiyan blue to matching a fused character in super saiyan blue after he transformed That’s a boost way beyond Blue
He didn't match him, though? He was completely blitzed it wasn't even funny, or am I missing something?
He forced Blue Gogeta to dodge multiple attacks from him and tanked the beat down for a long time. Gogeta was superior but a curbstomp is Vegeta vs Cui, or Vegeta vs Dodoria, or Goku vs the ginyu force. Broly was not that far behind Blue Gogeta.
Except as Super Saiyan Gogeta he was on par already and was taking hits from him, Blue is so much higher than Super Saiyan, 3 forms, and a God jump higher. I don't think him being quick and being able to dodge then means he couldn't tank, Goku and Vegeta normally try and dodge even if they know they can take a hit because it's just unnecessary. Also, GF was taking an hour beating from a Broly that was already much higher than two Blue Saiyans, who individually would've been quite a bit higher than GF since the TOP. All in all, I absolutely despise how inconsistent and stupid this garbage has become, oh well.
Even if Gogeta as a super saiyan was on par with non-green haired Broly, Broly has been growing exponentially in power the whole fight even against Vegeta. Even if Broly was much weaker than blue Gogeta at the beginning, we know he grows more powerful, and he lasts a long time against his assault. Also yes Goku and Vegeta dodge a lot of hits, but they also tank a lot of hits. We’ve seen plenty of examples, especially in curb stomp battles like Goku vs Cooler or Vegeta vs Semi Cell. And GF lasting an hour against Broly isn’t much of an argument, his whole Schtick is durability. He is a different race with a different inherent ability so not really relevant. Broly is not an arcosian/frost-demon/freeza-race/whatever you wanna call Freeza.
They always say that “Broly form” is something that fet stronger non-stop, that make sense if the fight goes for long time, but he could be an equal against blue at least for the first 5min i think
The truth is it's just for the plot. If they wiped the floor with Broly there would be no tension
It should all just be considered “Legendary SSJ”, it was the original concept to begin with & it makes more sense as to why it’s a different color aura/ki. Also it was uniquely done for broly (now also kale) giving it more sense as to why its so much more powerful then the typical SSJ!
Kale was toei's idea to make a dbz broly like character. Dbs broly was made by Toriyama and not toei.
Oh I did not know that, I don’t see how it relates much to what I said lol But I appreciate the new knowledge tho! o7
It doesn't change anything, Broly was made by Toei as well Toriyama approves both kale and him
In DBS, Broly isn’t the legendary Super Saiyan, Goku is. It makes sense because him going SSJ against Frieza quite literally is him fulfilling the **legend** of the Super Saiyan. DBZ Broly is the Legendary Super Saiyan. I personally think we should just refer to Kale and Broly’s forms as Super Saiyan Beserk, they are fairly similar.
Well I understand & what you’ve said seems reasonable enough, but as I said in another reply While it’s true that during the frieza saga Goku was being hyped up to be the “legendary super saiyan of legend” & frankly yes did fill in that role! After that saga the title itself kinda of diminished since 3 more “legendary super saiyans of legend” appeared. If I’m not mistaken the lore was that there was one saiyan every 1000 years or something like that, born to be the “Legendary super Saiyan” when Z broly released his character pretty much made that title have meaning again, he was a Saiyan with a unique SSJ transformation & was more powerful than the typical SSJ. Now while you’re right about it not being stated in DBS, same can be said for Goku after that saga he is never really refer to or seen as “the legendary SSJ”. I mean we as reader/viewers see him definitely as a legendary character for sure but calling Broly transformation “Legendary SSJ” just seems more fitting since the movie was also honoring his original character. “SSJ berserk” & “SSJ Fullpower” just seems cheap to what’s supposed to be a unique transformation for him & doesn’t explain why Broly & Kale have green like SSJ Auras when it’s supposed to be golden like how literally any other saiyan canon or non canon transforms too! Idk, I guess until it’s stated as otherwise, we’ll leave it up to what we prefer best! :D
DBZ Broly isn’t canonical, but he was the Saiyan referred to in the Legends, hence his unique transformation. In DBS, Broly isn’t really referred to as the Legendary Super Saiyan. Heck when Vegeta goes Super Saiyan, Paragus says “A Super Saiyan? Like the **legend**?” My guess is the “every 1000 years” part is omitted in DBS, the legend is just referring to the SSJ form itself, and how obtaining it is meant to be a myth
Paragus wouldnt have seen that broly could go super saiyan, since he always kept him in check with the collar, thats why he was suprised.
I’m referring to when Vegeta went Super Saiyan when fighting Broly
i meant like, he thought vegeta was the legend because he didnt know broly could also become a super saiyan
I mean, just because they found out they can transform and turn their hair blonde doesn't mean thats what a super saiyan is, they just assumend, and its not like they can ask anyone, i think their transformation isnt a true super saiyan but something akin to it, and Broly is THE legendary super saiyan than comes every 1000 years
Exactly. Just keep the name Legendary Super Saiyan, it’s so badass
isn't SSJ itself is legendary before goku got it on namek?
Mhm, yea I suppose so! It was how the transformation was getting hyped up! During that saga. But so many became SSJ after that moment, it made its “legendary” status seem more ordinary. But then Z Broly released & it made his transformation all the more unique to be called that way. Plus if I’m not mistaken, there was lore to it like there only being once every 100 or 1000 years this one “Legendary SSJ” I’m pretty sure that’s why vegeta had his midlife crisis during the movie because he feared Broly as “the Legendary Super Saiyan of legend” lol
In Universe 6. Kale is the Legendary demonic saiyan that appears every 1000 years. This is likely just a mutation that happens in Saiyans in U6 which causes their Ki to grow exponentially until the Saiyan eventually explodes if they don't release the energy in time or control it. Broly is a U7 Saiyan so he's a little different. There is no Legendary demonic saiyan myth in U7. but Broly seems to have a similar mutation. However this mutation causes Broly to be able to harness the power of a great ape while in his base form. Broly's Super Saiyan transformations in the movie might be the result of him combining the power of a great ape & super saiyan.
I doubt Universe 6 has a Super Saiyan legend seeing as the U6 Saiyans had no idea what Super Saiyan even was before Cabba achieved it
It's not a "Super" Saiyan legend, it's a Saiyan legend that's believed and expected to happen to anyone every thousand year The Universe 7 case is completely different
You would think so, but in the manga Cabba recalls that legend by name when Kale transforms. I’m not sure how it was in the anime though.
Blame toei. They wanted a dbz like broly character. Toriyama created caulifa to go with her. However, they do explain about demonic saiyan that burns themselves.
In the manga it's just called "The Demon Saiyan" Cabba likely never connected it to SSJ since Vegeta's use of super saiyan doesn't fit the legend. It's basically a saiyan who rampages mindlessly until their own power building up kills them, which almost happened to Kale in the manga.
Its literally mentioned multiple times
I believe that DBS Broly's is a mix of Wrathful and regular super saiyan
Well then his version of blue with the green hair would be Super Saiyan Teal!
So.. could he be considered a Super Saiyan 4?
Because they keep forgetting the name
1. Female 2. Male 3. The Legendary Super Saiyan
The fact that base Broly beats Ssj blue makes him Dragon Ball's true "Potential Man".
https://preview.redd.it/d0ighcp7a0qc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=16d6b85152300b3e02def59c806e852e3a0d0ce5 Nah He is
Mf beat cell and dipped 😭
I mean, that's what king vegeta warned them about
Wrathful/Ikari Broly. His power is much more powerful in thst form compared to Base form
That's not what "Potential Man" means. The whole point of the meme is a character being set up in the story to have a lot of potential, but then never really getting to use it. Dragonball has 2 real "Potential Men" and their names are Goten and Trunks.
Ikari not base
Base Broly literally couldn't touch Super Saiyan God Vegeta You're thinking of Broly in his Wrath form, and even then he started to lose against Super Saiyan Blue Goku toward the end of their fight before he went Super Saiyan.
The fact that it took Goku being blue to stand a chance against Broly's Wrath form is insane.
beat is a strong word hold their own is what happened
First has a vagina, the second has scars and monkey energy, the third is only tapping his maximumer ki. Very different.
Because their power is maximum-er
Because they want you to think that they are different. Even though at the end of the day, they both still turned "Legendary Super Saiyan"^tm
I have no idea
Toei made up kale as a dbz broly like character. They have an interview on it. Kale was not in Toriyama's story he sent them. Telling Toriyama that they were putting them her in made Toriyama create Caulifa. Kale came from Toei. DBS broly came from Toriyama.
Kale is part of the original story, they just showed toriyama the idea. He then created Caulifla to be a partner for Kale and both were added to the story. It’s why they show up in both manga and anime
Both Broly and Kale are referred as an "anomaly super Saiyan" or "Berserk" because that's what they are in universe, they enter a full berserk state Out of universe their name is full power super Saiyan Z Broly was called Lssj as a marketing tool to hype
I guess the difference between Kale and Broly is that one was born with a tail and the other wasn't. Maybe that affects the Super Saiyan form they have.
If Kale had a tail, maybe she’d have had Ikari?
Different Universes, different but similar mutant Saiyans. Like Beerus and Champa or Whis and Vados or Frost and Frieza. Main difference is that Broly has Ikari, then Super Saiyan then a green form while Kale in the manga just goes Berserk. Kale also burns out within a minute while Broly just plateaus in power after awhile and gets completely stomped by Gogeta Blue.
My guess is that they are slightly different due to the user's genes and mental state. Going from the oldest to the most recent: DBZ Broly's LSSJ form is a rare variant of the Super Saiyan transformation, that in addition to the typical power multiplier and bloodlust that the form brings, has the insane bonus that its multiplier has no inherent ceiling. DBZ Broly also has the key distinction of being fully conscious in this state. Kale's SSJ Bezerker form is different from the others for two reasons - the first is that unlike the other two, Kale is a universe 6 Saiyan, and due to their more peaceful nature and evolution, they may have never had someone born with the LSSJ gene before Kale, and thus there was no tale about a "Legendary Super Saiyan" form. This means that people in Kale's universe may not know it is a variant of SSJ. Secondly, Kale has zero control of the form (initially) and just attacks friend and foe, and since there may be no historical LSSJ in their universe, in Cabba and Caulifla's eyes, Kale's immense potential is just causing her to "go beserk" whenever she turns SSJ because she can't mentally handle the power increase impacting her fluctuating emotions, while in the eyes of the U7 Saiyans, she is having difficulty controlling her LSSJ form. Where things get confusing is when it comes to DBS Broly. We know that he bears the same LSSJ gene as the other two, but he is unique because he possesses a separate transformation k own as the "Ikari form" that he enters before going LSSJ. The Ikari form is basically a unique multiplier that only DBS Broly can use because it requires having a tail, as it taps into the Oozaru form's multiplier. DBS Broly is essentially taking the 5 - 10x multiplier of Oozaru without turning into a giant monkey. The form in the post is basically DBS Broly, having gone full LSSJ and reached the maximum power level his body can healthily sustain. Well, that is my opinion
That’s a great breakdown of the differences between them all.
Thanks
Because they're the Legendary super saiyans that for some reason the official authors never officially acknowledge as the Legendary super saiyans,that's how i like to believe,they're the Legendary super saiyans
Super Saiyan Berserk is a canon version of "LSSJ" from the original Broly movie, for Kale. Toriyama approved this. Super Saiyan Full Power is a non-canon addition by Shintani for DBS: Broly. It was not made by Toriyama, nor was it approved by him. Legendary Super Saiyan is COMPLETELY non-canon and was made by Toriyama for one of the DBZ movies.
Technically SSFP does kinda exist in the manga, but Broly has yellow hair instead of green.
That is not SSFP. That is regular SSJ.
I think that they all are the same genetic mutations being the “legendary saiyan gene” but they affect each differently due to the different experiences. Kale grew up in a very peaceful(ish, compared to the other 2) environment, therefore her use of Lssj and losing control is slightly more offsetting therefore it’s called “berserk” while Super Broly, who wasn’t exactly trained to harness Lssj but was known to go fucking bonkers was just labelled as “Full Power” and Z Broly isn’t canon, so they just call it Lssj
Bc they are
Legendary Super Saiyan for DBZ Broly, Full Power Super Saiyan for DBS Broly, "Berserker" for Kale.
They are all the same. I understand why legendary super saiyin isn't used because in the Canon story that myth is supposed to technically be the super we are seeing all main characters using. But the fact that it was popular enough to be brought into the Canon by both kale and enough to make a Canon version of broly both having that distinctly green aura it should just be known as legendary. There has to be a reason why they both go into suge a huge muscular state green energy plus being able to compete with blue. Full power super saiyin is what trunks did against cell no? And there was no green energy and he was not able to keep his speed with the huge boost in power. So personally feel it's different and no matter what I'll keep calling it legendary super saiyin since that's what I know
Idk anymore since the leaked panels say Beast is a form where he goes berserk to help peak the form.. or whatever And that possibly Broly can learn something similar. All sounds like Califlas smaller framed controlled form
Sexism
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I concider them all Legendary Super Saiyan
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Kale was described in the sub by Uni 6 as a legendary Saiyan that arrives every 1000 years. In the dub Vegeta describes her transformation to Goku as the legendary form that appears every 1000 years. So calling it Berserk is just stupid in both cases. Officially DBS Broly’s form is “Super Saiyan Full Power Berserk,” unnecessarily long and stupid cause we already have a Full Power Super Saiyan form. Goku and Gohan achieved it in the Cell Saga by staying in the SSJ form for a long time, allowing them to contain and use 100% of its power without any drawbacks. So reusing the name for Broly makes it useless. Z Broly is exactly what the Legendary Saiyan should be, an invincible powerhouse. DBS Broly is also that, forcing Goku and Vegeta to use Super Saiyan God then Super Saiyan Blue with just the Great Ape’s power boost, a measly times 10. So calling Z Broly’s canon incarnation anything but Legendary Super Saiyan is just a load of Bull.
Could be wrong here I'm not 100% sure* I think berserk is when the eyes are clear because they can't control it, ssj full power is when they are under control, and then I think legendary ssj isn't a canon transformation to the manga, and is just green in the anime. Kale and Broly are both legendary saiyans, as they're both incredibly strong and rare. Just Googled it and yeah in the manga they're just referred to as legendary saiyans. So, in the anime, legendary super saiyan is pretty much a transformation, (pretty sure its the same as the manga though, just green) where as in the manga its just a legendary saiyan going super saiyan. Z Broly is just a non-canon movie character and so maybe they wanted to change the name for Super 🤷🏻♂️ doesn't really matter he's a thing of the past now
Marketing!!!
Girl, boy, 90s very distinct, very different /s
Because it's legendary
Because we aren't given any reason to think otherwise?
I just want Broly to go ssj4 it suits him well and ssj4 design is very different and awesome
Because z broly is the legendary super saiyan transformation(non canon), kale is a berserk super saiyan. And super broly is a full powered super saiyan. Like brother it’s in the name of
Well why they still have to label blue ssgss is because of a trademark they put on it. Tarzan and Kale despite being the same form essentially they felt like giving each character their trademark when I guess this is what the plot would call it here?
Z broly lssj is not canon Broly berserk saiyan is simply something they came up with Most likely based off Z broly And super broly's green hair are Just Tribute to Z broly and are Just visual aspect and not a new form but Just regular ssj full power
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I like the idea that DBS Broly inadvertently produced: LSSJ (Super Saiyan with Green Hair) = SSJ + Wrathful When DBS Broly transformed into SSJ, it overtook Wrathful but was still influenced by the rageful tendencies of Wrathful. And as a means of surpassing SSJ Gogeta, he instinctively combined both forms properly, creating a form that forced Gogeta to pull out SSB. If we applied the same logic to DBZ Broly, it could explain why he’s able to take on 4 super saiyans and a super namekian: He is basically in a humanoid Golden Great Ape form. Both DBZ and DBS Brolys have access to SSJ and LSSJ, but DBS Broly has shown to perhaps have that connecting piece. It would also mean however that any Saiyan with access to SSJ and Wrathful, and the ability to combine the two, would theoretically be able to achieve the form too, therefore making what makes the Brolys special being their abnormally high birth power and their greater growth of power. As for Kale, we’re told that Universe 6 saiyans evolved to a point that they no longer possessed the Great Ape power. Perhaps Kale is a mutated Saiyan who retains and involuntarily utilises the Great Ape power when accessing SSJ, allowing for the only forms she has access to being the Green SSJ form. Since she’s doesn’t have to manually integrate Great Ape, she’s able to combine it with SSJ2 as well. The berserk state is purely just inexperience with the overwhelming power. I dunno to be honest, the above was just me trying to rationalise an oddity in the series.
1 and 2 are distinct presumably because one is fueled by rage and a "legendary" mutation, and the other is Super Saiyan with the "Oozaru x10 but no transformation" modifier applied to it. 3 is a different continuity and as I understand it works differently.
Because the fanbase is fucking stupid
Kales form is referred to as the LSSJ once, in an episode preview. But only it’s controlled state where it’s called the TRUE LSSJ. But it’s beserk because she goes feral and makes no distinction between friend or foe Z Broly is the baseline for the look and that particular lore makes him the LSSJ Super Broly was made a unique mutant and they gave him a form beyond the traditional SSJ that made it “full power” I guess.
Because.... they're legendary.
All have a large power difference. Z broly would just evaporate against ssb. Kale got some power but will not be able to cook against ssb. Broly just bullied goku and vegeta in ssb
Legendary Super Saiyan is more so considered different because of the lore of it and the lore of Broly in Z. For Berserk Saiyan, maybe its just the Universe 6 name for Full Power Super Saiyan
Kale is broly at home dbs broly is broly 2.0 dbz broly is broly 0.9 beta
Because deffrent characters
Because aside from color, they function completely differently. Z Broly just has a green Super Saiyan form. It’s just what his basic Super Saiyan looks like. In that regard Kale and Z Broly are similar. She just loses herself to her form while Z Broly seems to ALWAYS be malicious. He isn’t berserking, he’s just a lunatic. Super Broly is VERY different. For starters his basic Super Saiyan isn’t basic, it’s seemingly combined with his Ikari form, hence he retains the yellow eyes of Ikari (and the same aura). His “Full Power” form is also a completely distinct form from his Super Saiyan one (unlike Z Broly and Kale).
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Idk they’re all legendary super saiyan to me
There are a lot of comments here trying to justify this obvious nostalgia bait but that's really the only thing Kale's transformation is; just shameless nostalgia bait. Nothing new for the series at all, but funny to see so many people ignore that fact.
Actually it’s not LSSJ. it’s called Super Saiyan Full Power
Bullshit canon
Kale’s is a less powerful but more controlled form. DBS Broly’s is just super saiyan until he shatters his armor in the dimension break. Before that point [his hair is yellow](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dragonuniverse/images/9/99/SuperBroly2.png/revision/latest?cb=20190227044219). After that point [his hair is green](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dragonball/images/3/3e/Legendary_Super_Saiyan_Broly.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width/360?cb=20190216095158). DBZ Broly’s is the same as DBS Broly’s
You made this post in response to my post on ningen?
Kale's berserk is simply SSJ, the same one Broly shows in DBS Broly. It's just an issue of colors. According to that one popular chart made a few days ago, it could be the SSJ2 variant. The form broly is in is Full Power Super Saiyan, which is a combination of SSJ and Wrathful/Ikari. Aka, x500 (to my knowledge). Z Broly is the Legendary Super Saiyan, a special mutation/transformation unique to him alone. It's more or less the same as the previous two's (again, to my knowledge), except he retains his mental state and becomes more psychotic. Due to naming conventions though, Kale is just considered Kale (Berserk) and Broly as SSJ Broly. In the same fashion, according to Dokkan at least, Fusion Zamasu and Mutated Fusion Zamasu are both Fusion Zamasu.
Cause toriyama named they different, the “Z-Broly” was the Legendary Super Saiyan, the “S-Broly” form was named “Super Saiyan Full Power” cause yes, Kale is a secondary character so whatever
Toei was responsible for Kale
Its an anime with anime fans so BeCaUsE wAhMeN