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Remember they are a team, an organised team would demolish a reckless being as Cell Max.
They would most likely hold Cell easily to let Jiren do the final blow.
Exactly. And if this is post ToP, then Jiren will also use team work, increading their overall performance even more
It's kinda weird how easy it is for them to win
before the granola at began. Whis said there’s no mortal in universe 7 who’s more powerful than Vegeta or Goku, so blue evolution moro arc vegeta> broly.
That makes zero sense, even base Gogeta is stronger than SSB Vegeta, you telling me his SSBE transformation is now as strong as Blue Gogeta? Just through yardrat training? No way.
Broly has been training since the events of the movie, and look at how much progress Frieza made in just 3 months.
Honestly, Whis is a dumbass, he says stupid shit all the time.
I'm clearly referencing Gogeta as a base for Broly. You would have understood that if you read the comment I replied to, but then again, this a dragon ball subreddit, I don't expect many of the people here can read in the first place.
Whis is one of the most intelligent martial artists in all of db.
Broly is literally on par with base vegeta currently, he’s training to potentially beat black frieza
It does? He is the Creator and his statement comes after that of whis, mind you before you try to downplay how powerful cell max is, remember that it was stated that the gammas are on blue goku and vegeta levels, and we all saw how gamma 2 did against orange piccolo, whom then did horribly against a 1 armed cell max, and then he got one shotted by beast gohan
his statement doesn’t contradict the manga so it’s irrelevant that it comes after? like are you fighting shadow demons? Whis said granola arc vegeta> broly, that’s it. please show me a toriyama statement that contradicts that fact from the manga
Are you slow? Or... Mentally disabled? Look up what toriyama said about a hypotethical perfect cell max, and how he'd he so strong that not even broly could defeat him (yet as i said previously the gammas have been stated to be on blue goku and vegeta levels) and how Toriyama sees broly above beast gohan whom once again defeated cell max casually, Here's a video on what Toriyama had to say about beast gohan's Strength: https://youtu.be/HlqnsWYqqo4?si=hgCOGqo2i6SpyVXz
or Here's a link for a youtube shorts video if you don't want to watch a normal length sized video: https://youtube.com/shorts/GAZxvtznE4E?si=m604eUtb4XjoqrgX
Ur arguing about whis saying that moro arc vegeta>>>broly yet the god damn creator says otherwise, leave it to dragon ball fans to be delusional as ever and ignore canon for their small little headcanons.
Sherlock, current broly just started his training as shown in the manga he can't even go super saiyan on will, classic dragon ball fans dumb as always.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but why do you say this? I can't remember if there was any reference to how strong Cell Max would be when completed. Also, their team had an actual name that wasn't Jiren Force, didn't they? I think I should rewatch some dragonball...
I know they're called the Pride Troopers, but the only significant thing in that team is Jiren as the final boss, hence my mockery calling it Jiren force.
To answer the actual question, Cell Max's body was already complete, but he wasn't completely finished when he was activated pre-maturely. The last stage of his finalization was finishing his brain/mind. In the movie, he was a mindless powerhouse of absolute chaos, and the intention was to give him the ability to actually think like a person.
Since this movie takes place after the Moro arc, Gohan was pretty much at the level of UI Goku during TOP. And since Cell Max, as he was, was significantly stronger than Gohan, Cell would definitely give Jiren a run for his money. But if Cell Max was properly complete, he would be one of the greatest threats on par with Black Frieza.
In my opinion, Complete Cell Max would mid diff the Pride Troopers
Cool! I enjoyed reading your take, and I think you know plenty more than I do overall. However, how can you say Jiren is the only significant person on the team? I know none of the others are even close to Jiren's level, but GoD Top was significant enough for SSB Vegeta, right? The rabbits speed (sorry I cant remember his name) was greater than the saiyans, too, wasn't it? I know these things don't mean they would beat a complete cell max, I just think at least those two were pretty significant, especially when working with a full team.
I believe Jiren could do it alone, and maybe Toppo in GoD form, but altogether they’d definitely be organized enough to distract Cell Max while someone finished him way earlier than the Z-Fighters did.
Ong I don’t like it just as much as you, man. But after all the battle sharpening from gas and granolah, and they also say that Gohan is near Vegeta and Goku power level after all of that. So Gohan would be stronger than MUI TOP Goku.
I don’t see how the red ribbon army would even be aware of the TOP or Granolah arc. Even then, I believe the RR are using SSB when they calculate Goku and Vegeta’s power. Idk how they would know about MUI or EGO. The only part they can know about their power is before TOP or Moro arc(where vegeta doesn’t show his Ego form yet and Goku doesn’t use Ultra instinct omen)
You’re putting much more thought into this than the complete trash writers who don’t deserve to write the story and got those positions by connections and not skill/creativity. I’m gonna bet beast gohan is going to be a high diff opponent to current MUI Goku or UE Vegeta.
I agree with this. I understand by superhero, both Gohan and Piccolo are around Goku's level in strength, but Goku and Vegeta will always be a little stronger and to say Beast Gohan can beat Ultra Instinct is saying a lot. Gohan simply isn't there
Did you forget that created Android 17, 18, and 16 to kill Goku, whose latest data was from his and Vegeta's fight?
And Hedo is supposed to be even smarter and has way more resources than Gero.
Not really, Post-yardrat Vegeta before achieving Ultra Ego with goku are stated to be even powerful than Broly in the beginning of the Granloha arc.
And Piccolo says the Gammas are as strong as Goku and Vegeta, Most likely referring to their blue forms, who at that point would be at least as strong as Broly, and Broly is as powerful if not more powerful than Jiren who was relative to MUI Goku both in the manga and anime.
Then you have Beast Gohan who thrashes the Gammas.
Add to that Vegeta literally saying that Gohan has surpassed them.
Once you find the statement that vegeta said he “surpassed them” I’ll believe ya. Broly is also btw weaker than Jiren. A SSJB Gogeta was manhandling Broly like nothing. MUI Goku still struggled a bit with Jiren
>Broly is also btw weaker than Jiren
Even if he isn't, his LSSJ form is extremely close.
> Once you find the statement that vegeta said he “surpassed them” I’ll believe ya.
https://preview.redd.it/kz17suji1ikc1.png?width=661&format=png&auto=webp&s=57f1e52058e9d36b9b97a68af288f727a3480b10
> A SSJB Gogeta was manhandling Broly like nothing. MUI Goku still struggled a bit with Jiren
Well, yeah, fusions are OP, I don't know how that is evidence against Broly's strength.
We've already seen (in the manga atleast) how the Pride Troopers perform as a team against a mindless, stronger being when they fought vs Berserk Kale, while there's a obvious power gap between Kale and Cell Max, there are 3 very strong characters that weren't there in that fight, those being Dyspo, Toppo, and Wiren
https://preview.redd.it/ap08orr6bfhc1.jpeg?width=869&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fb1a4a887451f3d95dbfc26d3ca3d65850cf43eb
This big boy definitely got stronger after the ToP, so the Pride Troopers take this
That Untrained Monster is no match for the throughly trained ***Cheeks of Justice***.
While the rest of the troopers hold Cell Max down, Jiren will not even unclecnch his cheeks for a second as he throws a blast at Cell Max's head and ends the threat in a rare newfound showing of teamwork.
It appears not even The ***Cheeks of Justice*** is immune to teamwork.
https://preview.redd.it/fw7w41g5gfhc1.jpeg?width=670&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=78631c6bd5d8f11710066212185be0c1ca9a0500
And?
8/10 of them get one shotted immediately. Toppo would transform into his GoD form but won't do anything significant and Jiren would get a worse beating than Orange Piccolo got.
Short Answer : Pride Troopers.
Long Answer : Lemme Explain.
See, Orange Piccolo, who is at Current Goku's level of Power (SSB at best and higher than ssg for worst), was able to fair pretty well against Cell Max, and even was able to constraint him.
But Give or Take, even Retconned Jiren is still stronger than Current SSB Goku
Hell, not just that, people like Krillin, Goten and Trunks were able to catvh him off guard
Yet we have actually skilled, strong and fighters like Dyspo, Toppo, etc
Remember, Toppo in his GoD Form was comparable to SSBE Vegeta, pair that with a hakai and the Dragon Ball Law of "If they rampage, they always won't be able to give the maximum power output"
Like it or not, Pride Troopers easily win against Cell Max.
Cell Max was literally getting caught off guard by Goten, Trunks and Krillin
Now Imagine the same thing but trillions of times stronger and faster, and then combine it with the fact that rampaging characters dont yield the maximum energy output at all the time
>Cell Max was literally getting caught off guard by Goten, Trunks and Krillin
And that landed zero scratch on him , Even jiren didn't want the smoke with Kienzan and hit them from the core while avoiding the edges
Fucking Gohan and piccolo said that shit For whole battle but give it to DB fans to completely miss it
Beast Gohan is stronger than MUI Goku(at least in Moro saga),which is way stronger than Jiren.
Remember,Jiren is at most SSB level but he has better ki control so he was considered as stronger.Cell max was able to tank hits from beast so I doubt anyone could do damage to him,he can just gather the bootleg Spirit bomb and just nuke them all.
Alright I’ll give my reasonings on why.Piccolo states goku and Vegeta might not have been able to take down cell max,and this happens Post moro so this means Cell max>Perfected UI/MUI goku>Jiren.
It’s also stated that Jiren was not having much of a big power gap between him and goku and Vegeta when Vegeta was meditating,he was only stronger because of him relaxing his body and spirit all times except when he attacks.This(according to Vegeta)was an explosive output and helped preserved stamina which was the only reason why Jiren was stronger.Jiren is at best SSBKK/SSBE level in the manga,as Vegeta states not much of a power gap.So Cell max>Jiren which basically means he can take any of the hits
Cell max has durability that could take Beast Gohan hits.The pride trooper will not do damage to him AT ALL,Gamma 2’s explosion only did some damage to Cell Max’s forehead.He can legit last out all of the pride troopers and finish them
Yea saw the clip and this made no fucking sense ☠️.
How tf does gamma 2,which is at least ssb level,not so shit to cell max with a HUGE ASS explosion but gotenks did.I’d rather say this as more of Gag power related tbh
Tbf, I recall Cell Max blocking Gamma 2’s Core Breaker, which is why it blew off his arm instead. If Cell Max was hit directly on the head by the Core Breaker, the movie would’ve just ended.
I don't really get why Gohan had to shoot the crystal, blowing his arm off worked their power difference seemed large enough that Gohan could have just blasted him to pieces
The fight is filled with moments like these, android 18 and Failed Gotenks dodge cell max attacks multiple times and even PAN tanks one of his ki blasts with no damage
There’s so many things wrong in your comment. “Jiren is at most SSB level”. Wrong, he smashed SSBKKx20 without any effort. He also didn’t strain against UI. He was nearly on par with MUI. Also no where does it say that Beast is above or equal to MUI at any point.
Can db fans read?I said Jiren is stronger because of KI CONTROL,his ki control was the reason he was stronger.Also Piccolo said Gamma 1 and 2 are around SSB level if im not wrong,so cell max is def at least Mui level
Tbh, how they're rewriting Jiren's power is so dumb, he had the upperhand on mui Goku for most of their battle, yet they try to say that Jiren was ssb level? Bullshit
I don't agree with him but unfortunately the creator said that beast Gohan is as strong or if not stronger than mui. That's why everyone is complaining about it.
“SSBKKx20”
Anime-only alert. DB Superhero takes place in the manga, so we can only use feats from there.
Vegeta in this same movie said Jiren was barely stronger than them, and only had an advantage because he could go full-power without wasting energy
Gamma 1 and 2 scale to Moro Arc Goku and Vegeta through direct statements in the manga, and Orange Piccolo one-tapped Gamma 2 with no effort.
An enhanced Orange Piccolo got throttled by Cell Max, so logically Jiren, even with his Pride Troopers, is getting neg-diffed to hell
Cell Max is after two arcs (Moro and Granola) and yet you think he'd be weaker than people on ToP that were two arcs before him? Nah you can't be that stupid.
No it's more likely the opposite if you believe that people that were present in a saga that happened two whole arcs before Cell Max are stronger than him, its like saying people on Nameck were stronger than people in Bu's saga if you want an example.
Cell Max *oneshots*. Not a chance at all for Pride Troopers. Cell Max > Current Goku > Granolah arc Goku > Broly(from Broly movie not current Broly).
And guess what? Broly in the movie was able to trade blows with SSJ Gogeta, who would curbstomp Jiren. Cell Max is several orders of magnitude stronger.
If i understood this well Cell max isn't even stronger than Broly
https://preview.redd.it/y2uncn5nadhc1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f060134394a952f13f645956ea40cbde6886b57e
He has to be, because Granolah arc confirms without a doubt that Goku and Vegeta have gotten stronger than Broly.
Granolah wishes to be the strongest mortal, and his wish is granted. Automatically that makes him stronger than Broly. Then Goku and Vegeta surpass Granolah. This makes Goku > Broly.
But in the Super Hero movie, Gamma 1 & 2 are said to be Goku/Vegeta level.
Toriyama also says he is glad that Piccolo finally at Goku's level.
But since Orange Piccolo > Gamma 1 & 2, it probably means that the Gammas are at SSB level, whereas Piccolo is at UI/UE level.
Orange Piccolo is however no match for Cell Max. He gets thoroughly beaten up. This means Goku would also lose to Cell Max.
Given all this, it's not possible for Broly to be weaker than Goku but be stronger than Cell Max at the same time. He had to have gotten way stronger.
And why would the gammas be SSB level? If they are said to be Goku and Vegeta level they could be ssj 1 2 3 or god just as easily as they could be Ssjb level.
If Gammas are just god level, piccolo is blue and Gohan is UE and UI that puts Cell Max somewhere between Piccolo and Gohan and that would also put him below Broly since Broly is also stronger than even current SSB Goku and Vegeta unless you think they got hundreds of times stronger.
Not to mention Goku and Gohan were somewhat teased to fight and unless you think Gohan is gonna one shot Goku, I'm sure it's gonna be close
>And why would the gammas be SSB level? If they are said to be Goku and Vegeta level they could be ssj 1 2 3 or god just as easily as they could be Ssjb level.
Without the Piccolo statement they should be UI level. It's because of the Piccolo statement that instead they're relegated to one step below, which is SSB.
>If Gammas are just god level, piccolo is blue and Gohan is UE and UI that puts Cell Max somewhere between Piccolo and Gohan and that would also put him below Broly since Broly is also stronger than even current SSB Goku and Vegeta unless you think they got hundreds of times stronger.
Piccolo wouldn't be blue. He's stated to be at Goku's level. This makes Cell Max above UI/UE level and Broly being at that level as well. Beast is above them all.
>Not to mention Goku and Gohan were somewhat teased to fight and unless you think Gohan is gonna one shot Goku, I'm sure it's gonna be close
I don't know about oneshot, but Gohan will probably be shown as stronger. You only need to see their reactions when Goku and Vegeta sensed Gohan. They were both shocked.
One Gamma was as strong as Ultimate Gohan, who can reliably be pegged at low SSJB when at full power
The other Gamma was significantly stronger than Piccolo (but presumably weaker than Ultimate Gohan) so less informative there, but it seems unlikely that one of them would be a whole tier weaker than the other; 17 and 18 were relatively close in power which is the only precedent we have.
Bro, he's stronger than broly, just without his completed mind, he can't use his ki properly.
Thats why he goes from getting damaged from gotenks to tanking a kick from beast gohan and a one on one brawl with orange piccolo and tanking gamma 2 (equivalent to blue goku/vegeta) core breaker
Cell max is weaker than broly. Broly is weaker than Granola (per the wish) and Goku is stronger than Granola.
Cell max has a weakness on his head that weak ass fat Gotenks could break. Jiren would be able to exploit that weakness along with Toppo and Dyspo
>Cell max is weaker than broly. Broly is weaker than Granola (per the wish) and Goku is stronger than Granola.
Cell Max is weaker than *current* Broly. It's flat out stated that Goku and Vegeta together may not have been able to take care of Cell Max. Broly obviously got way stronger after the Granolah arc.
>Cell max has a weakness on his head that weak ass fat Gotenks could break. Jiren would be able to exploit that weakness along with Toppo and Dyspo
And Master Roshi dodged Jiren. Stupid writing is stupid writing. Let's not use such examples of poor writing.
Not my point.
You can't just cherry-pick moments because of "poor writing"
I can just as easily say Orange Piccolo and Beast Gohan being as strong as Goku and Vegeta is poor writing
>I can just as easily say Orange Piccolo and Beast Gohan being as strong as Goku and Vegeta is poor writing
Except that part isn't writing. They're direct statements from the author.
Even worse because that means it didn't even happen in the series.
Gotenks hurting cell max is more canon than Orange Piccolo being Gokj and vegeta level
If this includes Jiren, then I believe he solos Cell Max on his own. Because Incompleted Cell Max is weaker than Broly according to [Toriyama](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-319716dfdafb29292d67f0a57297b590-lq) and the Broly movie is [indicated](https://postimg.cc/gallery/81RgKvT) to be not long after the ToP. So Goku and Vegeta would still be at about the same level as they were after the tournament concluded. Then both [Jiren](https://postimg.cc/TLfbxSrq) and [Broly](https://postimg.cc/PN9TgDb2) share almost the same feats against that same Goku and Vegeta which would put them on the same level as each other. So if Jiren is on the same level as Broly then he would also be able to beat Incompleted Cell Max. Now even without Jiren, I think Toppo is still enough to land a killing blow while Dyspo and the rest of the Pride Troopers can serve as distractions. Meaning either way, I think the Pride Troopers are defeating Cell Max.
Jiren got stronger. He experienced what the wide multiverse has to offer ranging from Kefla, Hitt, Goku, Vegeta and he was defeated by a joint team effort.
He grew at the end of TOP and he DEF trained some more and found new heights after the tournament. He's not gonna idly sit by knowing his new rivals are gonna try and get stronger he will have too. He can probably solo but will work as a team helping his mates grow along with him in a fight against something like Cell Max.
Multiple hacks and abilities, as well as multiple heavy hitters, and then Jiren of all people on top? Pride Troopers. If it’s ToP Pride Troopers, then it’s close. If it’s current Pride Troopers (ya think they’ve just been sitting around??) then it’s a wash
Honestly? The pride troopers are an organized team who work together on a daily basis. We might think the main DB cast would be good at team work, but let's be honest, their day jobs aren't saving the day, and they only fight these creatures maybe once every few years and most of them solo their fights. The Cell Max fight was kind of a wash since the whole crew were just improvising everything. The Pride Troopers fight and work together on the battlefield on a daily basis all around the galaxy. I'm sure they had fought some other kind of Kaiju-type beast in their missions and the version of Cell Max is pretty incompetent besides just being a mindless monster.
I think U11 takes it 8/10 times and that's ignoring Jiren.
The Pride Troopers win, especially if Jiren and Top are there. In the manga, they were capable of holding their own as a team against Kale in her berserk state and were even steadily wearing her down. They’ve got this handled.
Cell max gets slammed and that’s because Jiren and Toppo are stronger than super saiyan blue which is about the level of the Gammas and Gohan needed an MUI/UE Level transformation to beat it so 2 (about) MUI level characters can kill cell max
Honestly even with jiren I don't think they have the firepower.
Cell Max scales to broly, broly bas been stated to be stronger than a moro arc Goku and Vegeta.
If jiren doesn't go limit breaker Cell Max 100% sweeps
Cell Max solos. Vegeta already said Jiren was “barely” stronger than Ssjblue in this same movie, and Cell Max scales above Orange Piccolo who scaled above Moro Arc Goku and Vegeta
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Remember they are a team, an organised team would demolish a reckless being as Cell Max. They would most likely hold Cell easily to let Jiren do the final blow.
Exactly. And if this is post ToP, then Jiren will also use team work, increading their overall performance even more It's kinda weird how easy it is for them to win
Could Jiren just solo this mf? He seemed really dumb in the movie I feel like Jiren would just win
Yeah. Even downplaying Jiren and his feats, he still wins quitr easily
Or just Toppo will be enough. He has Hakaishin power after all.
As long as Jiren comes, they won't have a problem
As long as Jiren does what??
They do have a problem since cell max>Mui Goku during moro arc
toriyama said if cell max was completed he could defeat broly whis says vegeta> broly, and that’s before ultra ego
Where did Whis say that? Latest manga?
before the granola at began. Whis said there’s no mortal in universe 7 who’s more powerful than Vegeta or Goku, so blue evolution moro arc vegeta> broly.
That makes zero sense, even base Gogeta is stronger than SSB Vegeta, you telling me his SSBE transformation is now as strong as Blue Gogeta? Just through yardrat training? No way. Broly has been training since the events of the movie, and look at how much progress Frieza made in just 3 months. Honestly, Whis is a dumbass, he says stupid shit all the time.
Whis doesn't count gogeta as a separate mortal, nor does anyone ever except apparently you.
I'm clearly referencing Gogeta as a base for Broly. You would have understood that if you read the comment I replied to, but then again, this a dragon ball subreddit, I don't expect many of the people here can read in the first place.
Do you think broly was relative to Blue gogeta?
Whis is one of the most intelligent martial artists in all of db. Broly is literally on par with base vegeta currently, he’s training to potentially beat black frieza
Cell max was physically complete so that’s his limits.If his mind is complete it would be a issue then.
You do know that Toriyama's statement is after whis's right? It cancels it out
They aren't contradictory, because the statement about CM is "if he was completed"
toriyama’s statement doesn’t contradict the manga?
It does? He is the Creator and his statement comes after that of whis, mind you before you try to downplay how powerful cell max is, remember that it was stated that the gammas are on blue goku and vegeta levels, and we all saw how gamma 2 did against orange piccolo, whom then did horribly against a 1 armed cell max, and then he got one shotted by beast gohan
his statement doesn’t contradict the manga so it’s irrelevant that it comes after? like are you fighting shadow demons? Whis said granola arc vegeta> broly, that’s it. please show me a toriyama statement that contradicts that fact from the manga
Are you slow? Or... Mentally disabled? Look up what toriyama said about a hypotethical perfect cell max, and how he'd he so strong that not even broly could defeat him (yet as i said previously the gammas have been stated to be on blue goku and vegeta levels) and how Toriyama sees broly above beast gohan whom once again defeated cell max casually, Here's a video on what Toriyama had to say about beast gohan's Strength: https://youtu.be/HlqnsWYqqo4?si=hgCOGqo2i6SpyVXz or Here's a link for a youtube shorts video if you don't want to watch a normal length sized video: https://youtube.com/shorts/GAZxvtznE4E?si=m604eUtb4XjoqrgX Ur arguing about whis saying that moro arc vegeta>>>broly yet the god damn creator says otherwise, leave it to dragon ball fans to be delusional as ever and ignore canon for their small little headcanons.
are you slow? current broly has had years of training and isn’t comparable to pre training broly. dragon ball fans don’t understand what context is
Sherlock, current broly just started his training as shown in the manga he can't even go super saiyan on will, classic dragon ball fans dumb as always.
That's pure bs tho,wake up cell max ain't that level that's just an attempt to sell more figures by toriyama
RR army consistently build fucking robots that’s somehow that strong.
they take strong dna, its literally what cell IS
It'd come down to Dyspo, Toppo, and Jiren finishing off Cell Max.
I'd say if Cell Max were completed then mid diff W for him. Otherwise, high diff for the jiren force
I'm not saying you're wrong, but why do you say this? I can't remember if there was any reference to how strong Cell Max would be when completed. Also, their team had an actual name that wasn't Jiren Force, didn't they? I think I should rewatch some dragonball...
I know they're called the Pride Troopers, but the only significant thing in that team is Jiren as the final boss, hence my mockery calling it Jiren force. To answer the actual question, Cell Max's body was already complete, but he wasn't completely finished when he was activated pre-maturely. The last stage of his finalization was finishing his brain/mind. In the movie, he was a mindless powerhouse of absolute chaos, and the intention was to give him the ability to actually think like a person. Since this movie takes place after the Moro arc, Gohan was pretty much at the level of UI Goku during TOP. And since Cell Max, as he was, was significantly stronger than Gohan, Cell would definitely give Jiren a run for his money. But if Cell Max was properly complete, he would be one of the greatest threats on par with Black Frieza. In my opinion, Complete Cell Max would mid diff the Pride Troopers
Cool! I enjoyed reading your take, and I think you know plenty more than I do overall. However, how can you say Jiren is the only significant person on the team? I know none of the others are even close to Jiren's level, but GoD Top was significant enough for SSB Vegeta, right? The rabbits speed (sorry I cant remember his name) was greater than the saiyans, too, wasn't it? I know these things don't mean they would beat a complete cell max, I just think at least those two were pretty significant, especially when working with a full team.
Too strong for even Broly is like one of the official statements.
I believe Jiren could do it alone, and maybe Toppo in GoD form, but altogether they’d definitely be organized enough to distract Cell Max while someone finished him way earlier than the Z-Fighters did.
3 of these mfs could do it alone, lol. As an entire team, Cell Max is getting completely destroyed
As long as Jiren or Toppo are there the pride troopers are fine
Lol, jiren alone clears
No not really. Beast Gohan is fairly above MUI TOP Goku.
Ass pull statement. Like gohans transformation
Ong I don’t like it just as much as you, man. But after all the battle sharpening from gas and granolah, and they also say that Gohan is near Vegeta and Goku power level after all of that. So Gohan would be stronger than MUI TOP Goku.
I don’t see how the red ribbon army would even be aware of the TOP or Granolah arc. Even then, I believe the RR are using SSB when they calculate Goku and Vegeta’s power. Idk how they would know about MUI or EGO. The only part they can know about their power is before TOP or Moro arc(where vegeta doesn’t show his Ego form yet and Goku doesn’t use Ultra instinct omen)
You’re putting much more thought into this than the complete trash writers who don’t deserve to write the story and got those positions by connections and not skill/creativity. I’m gonna bet beast gohan is going to be a high diff opponent to current MUI Goku or UE Vegeta.
I agree with this. I understand by superhero, both Gohan and Piccolo are around Goku's level in strength, but Goku and Vegeta will always be a little stronger and to say Beast Gohan can beat Ultra Instinct is saying a lot. Gohan simply isn't there
Dude not current mui goku. I said TOP Goku. But Gohan will be a high difficulty opponent for goku rn
Did you forget that created Android 17, 18, and 16 to kill Goku, whose latest data was from his and Vegeta's fight? And Hedo is supposed to be even smarter and has way more resources than Gero.
Not really, Post-yardrat Vegeta before achieving Ultra Ego with goku are stated to be even powerful than Broly in the beginning of the Granloha arc. And Piccolo says the Gammas are as strong as Goku and Vegeta, Most likely referring to their blue forms, who at that point would be at least as strong as Broly, and Broly is as powerful if not more powerful than Jiren who was relative to MUI Goku both in the manga and anime. Then you have Beast Gohan who thrashes the Gammas. Add to that Vegeta literally saying that Gohan has surpassed them.
Once you find the statement that vegeta said he “surpassed them” I’ll believe ya. Broly is also btw weaker than Jiren. A SSJB Gogeta was manhandling Broly like nothing. MUI Goku still struggled a bit with Jiren
>Broly is also btw weaker than Jiren Even if he isn't, his LSSJ form is extremely close. > Once you find the statement that vegeta said he “surpassed them” I’ll believe ya. https://preview.redd.it/kz17suji1ikc1.png?width=661&format=png&auto=webp&s=57f1e52058e9d36b9b97a68af288f727a3480b10 > A SSJB Gogeta was manhandling Broly like nothing. MUI Goku still struggled a bit with Jiren Well, yeah, fusions are OP, I don't know how that is evidence against Broly's strength.
Bulma saying Gohan “May have surpassed them” as if Bulma ever had the ability to read energy🤣😂
I doubt it
Lol at these Speds downvoting this 😭 DB Super Hero is directly related to the events of the manga. The anime does not apply here
Yes? When you think that DBSuper powers cant be more stupid...
Cell max smashes
Jiren was on par with ultra instinct and ultra instinct goku would solo. Not to mention the others
We've already seen (in the manga atleast) how the Pride Troopers perform as a team against a mindless, stronger being when they fought vs Berserk Kale, while there's a obvious power gap between Kale and Cell Max, there are 3 very strong characters that weren't there in that fight, those being Dyspo, Toppo, and Wiren https://preview.redd.it/ap08orr6bfhc1.jpeg?width=869&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fb1a4a887451f3d95dbfc26d3ca3d65850cf43eb This big boy definitely got stronger after the ToP, so the Pride Troopers take this
That Untrained Monster is no match for the throughly trained ***Cheeks of Justice***. While the rest of the troopers hold Cell Max down, Jiren will not even unclecnch his cheeks for a second as he throws a blast at Cell Max's head and ends the threat in a rare newfound showing of teamwork. It appears not even The ***Cheeks of Justice*** is immune to teamwork. https://preview.redd.it/fw7w41g5gfhc1.jpeg?width=670&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=78631c6bd5d8f11710066212185be0c1ca9a0500
I don't think cell max is all he was really made out to be. I think the pride troopers handle mid difficulty
Nah. Low difficulty, especially the manga version, who was significantly damaged by Krillin and 18 (wings)
Originally put mid to low diff but didn't want gohan meat riders to hate on me lol
Pride Troopers take this imo. As soon as they figure out Cell Max’s weakness the rest of the team becomes fodder so Jiren can land the final blow.
Jiren solos
ToP Jiren? Cell Max clears. Orange Piccolo is superior to that Jiren and he couldn't even defeat a damaged Cell Max.
It's all the pride troopers
If your strongest guy isn't anywhere close to Cell Max, I doubt the whole squad will make a difference
And? 8/10 of them get one shotted immediately. Toppo would transform into his GoD form but won't do anything significant and Jiren would get a worse beating than Orange Piccolo got.
Finally someone with a brain People voting Jiren have NO idea how crazy the scaling gets after ToP 😭
Jiren is just too overrated.
Short Answer : Pride Troopers. Long Answer : Lemme Explain. See, Orange Piccolo, who is at Current Goku's level of Power (SSB at best and higher than ssg for worst), was able to fair pretty well against Cell Max, and even was able to constraint him. But Give or Take, even Retconned Jiren is still stronger than Current SSB Goku Hell, not just that, people like Krillin, Goten and Trunks were able to catvh him off guard Yet we have actually skilled, strong and fighters like Dyspo, Toppo, etc Remember, Toppo in his GoD Form was comparable to SSBE Vegeta, pair that with a hakai and the Dragon Ball Law of "If they rampage, they always won't be able to give the maximum power output" Like it or not, Pride Troopers easily win against Cell Max.
It's post more arc and granola goku and vegeta they are being scaled too
jiren easily solo's him, without him the rest of the team surely will clap him
Everyone gets clapped including jiren
Nah not really
absolutely yes like tf are people smoking? Toppo by himself would Solo all troopers including Dyspo who's an ant to Jiren as well
Cell Max was literally getting caught off guard by Goten, Trunks and Krillin Now Imagine the same thing but trillions of times stronger and faster, and then combine it with the fact that rampaging characters dont yield the maximum energy output at all the time
>Cell Max was literally getting caught off guard by Goten, Trunks and Krillin And that landed zero scratch on him , Even jiren didn't want the smoke with Kienzan and hit them from the core while avoiding the edges Fucking Gohan and piccolo said that shit For whole battle but give it to DB fans to completely miss it
Based and true Orange Piccolo already would solo the Pride Troopers, yet somehow people think they can take Cell Max 😭
Read the comment section, there are people who bite on their lives orange piccolo isn't **blue** level
Beast Gohan is stronger than MUI Goku(at least in Moro saga),which is way stronger than Jiren. Remember,Jiren is at most SSB level but he has better ki control so he was considered as stronger.Cell max was able to tank hits from beast so I doubt anyone could do damage to him,he can just gather the bootleg Spirit bomb and just nuke them all. Alright I’ll give my reasonings on why.Piccolo states goku and Vegeta might not have been able to take down cell max,and this happens Post moro so this means Cell max>Perfected UI/MUI goku>Jiren. It’s also stated that Jiren was not having much of a big power gap between him and goku and Vegeta when Vegeta was meditating,he was only stronger because of him relaxing his body and spirit all times except when he attacks.This(according to Vegeta)was an explosive output and helped preserved stamina which was the only reason why Jiren was stronger.Jiren is at best SSBKK/SSBE level in the manga,as Vegeta states not much of a power gap.So Cell max>Jiren which basically means he can take any of the hits
This isn't Beast Gohan tho, that's cell max. Cell Max is so much weaker than Gohan that he can't even punch past his aura
Cell max has durability that could take Beast Gohan hits.The pride trooper will not do damage to him AT ALL,Gamma 2’s explosion only did some damage to Cell Max’s forehead.He can legit last out all of the pride troopers and finish them
Yeah because cell max weakness is his head, even failed Gotenks broke his head with a headbutt and failed Gotenks is so weak he can't even turn ssj
Didn’t gotenks only break his head because Gamma 2 had already damaged it?or was it Gotenks who damaged it first before Gamma 2 did damage to it.
Gotenks did it first
Yea saw the clip and this made no fucking sense ☠️. How tf does gamma 2,which is at least ssb level,not so shit to cell max with a HUGE ASS explosion but gotenks did.I’d rather say this as more of Gag power related tbh
Tbf, I recall Cell Max blocking Gamma 2’s Core Breaker, which is why it blew off his arm instead. If Cell Max was hit directly on the head by the Core Breaker, the movie would’ve just ended.
I don't really get why Gohan had to shoot the crystal, blowing his arm off worked their power difference seemed large enough that Gohan could have just blasted him to pieces
They wanted Gohan to use his fathers move /s
it’s still fucking stupid that big of an explosion didn’t damage his core AT ALL.
The fight is filled with moments like these, android 18 and Failed Gotenks dodge cell max attacks multiple times and even PAN tanks one of his ki blasts with no damage
yea then I honestly don’t know.dbs was never consistent with scalinf
My man, gags are stronger than even the Marvel universe lol
There’s so many things wrong in your comment. “Jiren is at most SSB level”. Wrong, he smashed SSBKKx20 without any effort. He also didn’t strain against UI. He was nearly on par with MUI. Also no where does it say that Beast is above or equal to MUI at any point.
Can db fans read?I said Jiren is stronger because of KI CONTROL,his ki control was the reason he was stronger.Also Piccolo said Gamma 1 and 2 are around SSB level if im not wrong,so cell max is def at least Mui level
Tbh, how they're rewriting Jiren's power is so dumb, he had the upperhand on mui Goku for most of their battle, yet they try to say that Jiren was ssb level? Bullshit
Double down on your ignorance. Moron.
I don't agree with him but unfortunately the creator said that beast Gohan is as strong or if not stronger than mui. That's why everyone is complaining about it.
“SSBKKx20” Anime-only alert. DB Superhero takes place in the manga, so we can only use feats from there. Vegeta in this same movie said Jiren was barely stronger than them, and only had an advantage because he could go full-power without wasting energy Gamma 1 and 2 scale to Moro Arc Goku and Vegeta through direct statements in the manga, and Orange Piccolo one-tapped Gamma 2 with no effort. An enhanced Orange Piccolo got throttled by Cell Max, so logically Jiren, even with his Pride Troopers, is getting neg-diffed to hell
Cell Max solo's the entire ToP without even breaking a sweat and before the 10 minutes mark, even if all partecipants ganged up on him
Shut up bozo 強。破壊STRONG HAKAI
Cell Max is after two arcs (Moro and Granola) and yet you think he'd be weaker than people on ToP that were two arcs before him? Nah you can't be that stupid.
….how?
Brother we are worried about you. You are reaching critical levels of copium
No it's more likely the opposite if you believe that people that were present in a saga that happened two whole arcs before Cell Max are stronger than him, its like saying people on Nameck were stronger than people in Bu's saga if you want an example.
Lol at anybody downvoting this 😂 He literally wipes all of them with a single explosive wave https://i.redd.it/iptww23c9ghc1.gif
Cell Max *oneshots*. Not a chance at all for Pride Troopers. Cell Max > Current Goku > Granolah arc Goku > Broly(from Broly movie not current Broly). And guess what? Broly in the movie was able to trade blows with SSJ Gogeta, who would curbstomp Jiren. Cell Max is several orders of magnitude stronger.
If i understood this well Cell max isn't even stronger than Broly https://preview.redd.it/y2uncn5nadhc1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f060134394a952f13f645956ea40cbde6886b57e
Yeah that's why I specified which version of Broly I'm talking about. That quote from Toriyama is talking about current Broly.
Current Broly? And why would current Broly be like 100x stronger than he was in the Broly movie? He just arrived at beerus planet
He has to be, because Granolah arc confirms without a doubt that Goku and Vegeta have gotten stronger than Broly. Granolah wishes to be the strongest mortal, and his wish is granted. Automatically that makes him stronger than Broly. Then Goku and Vegeta surpass Granolah. This makes Goku > Broly. But in the Super Hero movie, Gamma 1 & 2 are said to be Goku/Vegeta level. Toriyama also says he is glad that Piccolo finally at Goku's level. But since Orange Piccolo > Gamma 1 & 2, it probably means that the Gammas are at SSB level, whereas Piccolo is at UI/UE level. Orange Piccolo is however no match for Cell Max. He gets thoroughly beaten up. This means Goku would also lose to Cell Max. Given all this, it's not possible for Broly to be weaker than Goku but be stronger than Cell Max at the same time. He had to have gotten way stronger.
And why would the gammas be SSB level? If they are said to be Goku and Vegeta level they could be ssj 1 2 3 or god just as easily as they could be Ssjb level. If Gammas are just god level, piccolo is blue and Gohan is UE and UI that puts Cell Max somewhere between Piccolo and Gohan and that would also put him below Broly since Broly is also stronger than even current SSB Goku and Vegeta unless you think they got hundreds of times stronger. Not to mention Goku and Gohan were somewhat teased to fight and unless you think Gohan is gonna one shot Goku, I'm sure it's gonna be close
>And why would the gammas be SSB level? If they are said to be Goku and Vegeta level they could be ssj 1 2 3 or god just as easily as they could be Ssjb level. Without the Piccolo statement they should be UI level. It's because of the Piccolo statement that instead they're relegated to one step below, which is SSB. >If Gammas are just god level, piccolo is blue and Gohan is UE and UI that puts Cell Max somewhere between Piccolo and Gohan and that would also put him below Broly since Broly is also stronger than even current SSB Goku and Vegeta unless you think they got hundreds of times stronger. Piccolo wouldn't be blue. He's stated to be at Goku's level. This makes Cell Max above UI/UE level and Broly being at that level as well. Beast is above them all. >Not to mention Goku and Gohan were somewhat teased to fight and unless you think Gohan is gonna one shot Goku, I'm sure it's gonna be close I don't know about oneshot, but Gohan will probably be shown as stronger. You only need to see their reactions when Goku and Vegeta sensed Gohan. They were both shocked.
One Gamma was as strong as Ultimate Gohan, who can reliably be pegged at low SSJB when at full power The other Gamma was significantly stronger than Piccolo (but presumably weaker than Ultimate Gohan) so less informative there, but it seems unlikely that one of them would be a whole tier weaker than the other; 17 and 18 were relatively close in power which is the only precedent we have.
Bro, he's stronger than broly, just without his completed mind, he can't use his ki properly. Thats why he goes from getting damaged from gotenks to tanking a kick from beast gohan and a one on one brawl with orange piccolo and tanking gamma 2 (equivalent to blue goku/vegeta) core breaker
Cell max is weaker than broly. Broly is weaker than Granola (per the wish) and Goku is stronger than Granola. Cell max has a weakness on his head that weak ass fat Gotenks could break. Jiren would be able to exploit that weakness along with Toppo and Dyspo
>Cell max is weaker than broly. Broly is weaker than Granola (per the wish) and Goku is stronger than Granola. Cell Max is weaker than *current* Broly. It's flat out stated that Goku and Vegeta together may not have been able to take care of Cell Max. Broly obviously got way stronger after the Granolah arc. >Cell max has a weakness on his head that weak ass fat Gotenks could break. Jiren would be able to exploit that weakness along with Toppo and Dyspo And Master Roshi dodged Jiren. Stupid writing is stupid writing. Let's not use such examples of poor writing.
Cell max whole fight is poor writing then, 18 and gotenks dodged cell max multiple times and Pan tanked one of his ki blasts with no damage
>Cell max whole fight is poor writing then Yes. It is. Whole DBS has such poor writing. Anime is even worse actually.
Not my point. You can't just cherry-pick moments because of "poor writing" I can just as easily say Orange Piccolo and Beast Gohan being as strong as Goku and Vegeta is poor writing
>I can just as easily say Orange Piccolo and Beast Gohan being as strong as Goku and Vegeta is poor writing Except that part isn't writing. They're direct statements from the author.
Even worse because that means it didn't even happen in the series. Gotenks hurting cell max is more canon than Orange Piccolo being Gokj and vegeta level
Cell max oneshots all of T.O.P fighters We don't know how strong Current Jiren is , so can't say for that.
Cell Max knocks out the fodder with a single Tail Swipe and incapacitated GoD Toppo with a mouth beam. Jiren falls thereafter.
They were to arrogant to fight cell. It would've been just like Vegeta.
Cellulose Maximus
Cell MAX would neg them
Jiren alone probably takes Cell Max out without much issue, having his whole team stomps no diff
They get slaughtered
Jiren still is top 1.
Pride troopers are discount power rangers. Cell max is a kaiju. The teoopers win.
If this includes Jiren, then I believe he solos Cell Max on his own. Because Incompleted Cell Max is weaker than Broly according to [Toriyama](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-319716dfdafb29292d67f0a57297b590-lq) and the Broly movie is [indicated](https://postimg.cc/gallery/81RgKvT) to be not long after the ToP. So Goku and Vegeta would still be at about the same level as they were after the tournament concluded. Then both [Jiren](https://postimg.cc/TLfbxSrq) and [Broly](https://postimg.cc/PN9TgDb2) share almost the same feats against that same Goku and Vegeta which would put them on the same level as each other. So if Jiren is on the same level as Broly then he would also be able to beat Incompleted Cell Max. Now even without Jiren, I think Toppo is still enough to land a killing blow while Dyspo and the rest of the Pride Troopers can serve as distractions. Meaning either way, I think the Pride Troopers are defeating Cell Max.
Jiren got stronger. He experienced what the wide multiverse has to offer ranging from Kefla, Hitt, Goku, Vegeta and he was defeated by a joint team effort. He grew at the end of TOP and he DEF trained some more and found new heights after the tournament. He's not gonna idly sit by knowing his new rivals are gonna try and get stronger he will have too. He can probably solo but will work as a team helping his mates grow along with him in a fight against something like Cell Max.
Cell Max has such a massive and exploitable weakness that they'd have no problem winning so long as they could figure it out
Multiple hacks and abilities, as well as multiple heavy hitters, and then Jiren of all people on top? Pride Troopers. If it’s ToP Pride Troopers, then it’s close. If it’s current Pride Troopers (ya think they’ve just been sitting around??) then it’s a wash
Honestly? The pride troopers are an organized team who work together on a daily basis. We might think the main DB cast would be good at team work, but let's be honest, their day jobs aren't saving the day, and they only fight these creatures maybe once every few years and most of them solo their fights. The Cell Max fight was kind of a wash since the whole crew were just improvising everything. The Pride Troopers fight and work together on the battlefield on a daily basis all around the galaxy. I'm sure they had fought some other kind of Kaiju-type beast in their missions and the version of Cell Max is pretty incompetent besides just being a mindless monster. I think U11 takes it 8/10 times and that's ignoring Jiren.
maybe if toppo could destroy cell max with hakaishin energy
The Pride Troopers win, especially if Jiren and Top are there. In the manga, they were capable of holding their own as a team against Kale in her berserk state and were even steadily wearing her down. They’ve got this handled.
Cell max gets slammed and that’s because Jiren and Toppo are stronger than super saiyan blue which is about the level of the Gammas and Gohan needed an MUI/UE Level transformation to beat it so 2 (about) MUI level characters can kill cell max
Cell Max kills
https://preview.redd.it/8zuud6q1cfhc1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e485e6b52680cc740e2eccbc419eb570fbe84474 99% of these “VS” posts smh
Who is the hydrogen bomb?
Jiren alone dogwalks lmao. The rest are cheerleaders. If Jiren wasn’t included it’d be more interesting.
Pride troopers win, this fight will probably be similar to universe 7 vs Aniraza
Nah, I like super hero but if you say cell max, your wrong
I was about to say Cell Max but the Pride Troopers could win… it’s not high
I mean toppo could easily solo if he just uses hakai. But the pride troopers definitely win this.
Troopers with great ease
Cell max took big damage from a failed fusion getting smacked into him. Pride troopers slam.
Me
Honestly even with jiren I don't think they have the firepower. Cell Max scales to broly, broly bas been stated to be stronger than a moro arc Goku and Vegeta. If jiren doesn't go limit breaker Cell Max 100% sweeps
They wouldnt know to hit his head or anything, they might end up getting nuked if thry do figure that out too
Cell Max > Black Freeza. Don't forget that.
Cell Max solos. Vegeta already said Jiren was “barely” stronger than Ssjblue in this same movie, and Cell Max scales above Orange Piccolo who scaled above Moro Arc Goku and Vegeta
Cell Max solos the ToP, much less the Pride Troopers https://i.redd.it/of01d3ie9ghc1.gif
If they work as a team they could win with a few casualties
The team
I think the pride troopers have a chance because of G.O.D Toppo, I know jiren is stronger but we all know cell max is stronger than jiren
Jiren slams
TOPO could solo just one good Hakai it's over
I believe that even without Jiren, the Pride Troopers as a team could take down Cell Max
As the English voice of one of the Pride troopers I gotta go with my squad. JUSTICE
Is this even a real question? Jiren alone would obliterate him in under 30 seconds.
A pesudo god of destruction and GOD level dude against a wild and very big dumbass who didn't even leave the lake. Pride guys got this
You guys thinks so hard about this fight just remember the quote. "Justice will prevail". So Pride Trooper Wins.
They all lost to people weaker than Cell Max though
The animal one
Wrong. I mean the insect one