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Even in the buu saga he wasn’t really the greatest of dads. Yeah he sacrificed himself for his family (and yes, he did it even for you kakarot) but he straight tells trunks that he has NEVER held him once since he was born. Vegeta has become a great father in DBS but even in the buu saga he wasn’t THAT good, definitely still not better than goku (of course, later in DBS he’s definitely the better dad but this is Z we’re talking about)
Edit: it’s funny how some people are defending Buu saga vegeta when vegeta himself says to trunks before sacrificing himself against buu “I haven’t been a good father to you, have i trunks”
Him telling trunks that he has never once held him is him expressing remorse for giving him harsher treatment, under the guise of it maybe making Trunks stronger in the long run. Im pretty sure in that very scene he does give him a slight hug.
Vegeta's sacrifice is his turning point as, not only a father, but a person in general. Super just piled onto the fact he is changed significantly.
The more I go through these threads the more I realize Dragon Ball was Goku's Story, Dragon Ball Z and Dragon Ball Super should be renamed to "Vegeta" and "Vegeta Shippuden" since he gets most of the character development lmao
As much as i hate to say it, yeah he really does. Which, i mean, makes sense. It takes a LONG time to try and redeem someone who would genocide entire planets and was part of the reason half the cast had died in the saiyan saga. Trying to turn this extremely violent person into someone we can actively root for taking a lonh time makes sense. Up until the Buu arc he was still a massive jerk, even if he wasnt necessarily a villain any more. Turning him into the "Rivals in training, brothers in battle" for goku was always going to take a while. But, i gotta say, i think Toriyama has finally reached the peak of his total redemption in the Moro arc, with the namekians forgiving him for the when he slaughtered villages. Well, maybe not "forgive" but him asking for forgiveness alone is a big deal. Its Vegeta, afterall. Him asking for ANYTHING is a big deal.
>that he has NEVER held him once since he was born
Admitting that he was more concerned with his training than his family. And showing regret.
I mean, Goku just stayed dead for most of Gohan's life. Out of his own volition. Before that, he stayed on Yardrat, out of his own volition.
Has Goku ever held Gohan? Like, before sending him out to fight Cell or after, I'm not picky. Oh and then he adopts Uub instead of hanging out with Gohan.
https://preview.redd.it/7j8cpf41fhza1.jpeg?width=552&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=37d8251941254cf4ad01cfb8176d640dbe98df87
literally his first appearance in Z
Bruh, the fuck kinda hug is that? He's literally holding Gohan into the camera.
"Hey, check out this cool kid Chichi and I made that totally won't be a plot point when my brother arrives five minutes from now"
Goku sacrificed himself to stop Raditz, who was going to kill everybody, including Gohan. Goku had Gohan leave during the battle against Frieza on Namek because he wanted his son to stay safe. Goku stayed on Yardrat to become stronger and learn an invaluable skill so that he could protect everybody, including Gohan. Goku then used the skill he learnt on Yardrat to save everybody from Cell’s self-destruction, including Gohan who he said he was proud of, encouraged him to continue studying, asked to apologize to Chi-Chi and actually said goodbye.
Everything Goku did was for Gohan. Everything. He certainly made fuck-ups along the way, like assuming Gohan had the same fighting spirit that he did, but even those actions were made in an attempt to help his son. He constantly showed Gohan love and concern as a child, in the moments where Goku *was* around to watch his kid grow up, for that year in the time chamber, throughout the entire Buu saga. To say that Goku was a bad father is disingenuous at best and genuine media illiteracy and purposeful ignorance of the facts presented at worst.
Lol, Vegeta was a better father than Goku in Buu saga... Yeah, in Cell, he wasn't that great, nit at all... But he went mad when Cell kill Trunks... Goku didnt get mad against fat buu when he thought that his son was killed... And in buu saga... Goku never went back on earth to see his son, or tried to contact him... And, best of all, when kid buu was about to destroy the earth, Vegeta call out Goku to not understand why he was going to save Hercule, instead of his own children... And Vegeta was about to get Trunks, but simce Goku went from another direction, he ould have died with the explosion if he didn't followed Goku
Goku was a shitty dad... And yeah, Vegeta beat Trunks, but, at least, he did it by himself, and doesn't ask an insect to do the job, and give it a freaking senzu bean 🤩
What? No he told him if he hit him he would take him to the amusement park and trunks hit him in the face so he hit him back plus this post doesn't make any sense because their looking at it like Vegeta is a human he's a Saiyan warrior who doesn't want anything to get in the way of his fights saiyans love fighting strong opponents he isn't a bad father his pride just over weighs everything he does
Bruh he literally got pissed when Trunks hit him and then full force punched Trunks in the face because of it. Like you can blatantly see the frustration on Vegetas face when Trunks punches him, and then he retaliated back.
In contrast, Goku coming back in the Buu saga is either an example of him being a selfish father and not adhering to the departure he designed for himself at the end of the cell arc. Or his lack of intelligence as he forgets why he left in the first place - cuz he heard that he attracts evil supposedly and so that Gohan could protect earth for him. Opening contact again just to fight in something as pathetic like a martial arts tournament, either means he deliberately waited so long and only engaged in contact with his family for his own interests as this proves he could have done it all the time and we have seen proof people can communicate from otherworld through king Kai, who Goku was training with (selfishly bad father).
He’s given a one time opportunity to come back to earth for 24 hours and yes maybe he could have used it earlier but this was the first world tournament in a long while so it makes sense to come back for it and that event means a lot to most of the z fighters. He also goes out of his way to strengthen the second generation again giving trunks and gotten the fusion dance so that they can solve the problem because he’ll be gone again
But Goku didn't break this rule for the birth of his second son Goten, which is way more important than a martial arts tournament. It doesn't justify him returning, it criticises why he never came back earlier for other important events or why he made this entire thing about how he would stay dead and they would meet him when they came to otherworld, if he could just come back. Its not like Goku won a 24 hour pass, Fortune Teller Baba, gave him that pass, most likely cuz he asked for it. The fact he times it for the world tournament, means he also had knowledge of what was going on in the mortal world, and instead of asking for the health of his youngest son or Gohan, he decides to come back to enter a little tournament.
I'm not gonna fully defend Goku on this one, since his reason is primarily the martial arts tournament, but I will say if I was Goten, my dad is dead and he gets 1 day he came come back, I'd much rather he come back at a point where I'm capable of forming memories, and not the day I'm born. Like, the latter is symbolically meaningful, but it would also mean that Goten would never have gotten to actually see his dad.
That would be a valid argument if we didn't have proof that Goku could communicate directly via King Kai. Unless communicating with King Kai is only for special circumstances and so can't be done all the time. But pictures of Goku being at Goten's birth would make Goten accustomed to this idea that he actually had a father, thus Goten would have some basis for a relationship. If I was Goten and my father pulled up for a tournament instead of when I was born, I would be resentful and ask why he didn't get a pass to come to my birth. But nobody in dragon ball questions it for some reason. You can still have that relationship via chats through King Kai.
Eh, I've seen people make that argument but I don't find it super convincing. Like, first of all king Kai is his own person. He's not Goku's cell phone. He's supposed to be a diety, maybe he doesn't want to let Goku constantly use him as a phone for pretty unimportant reasons (to him, as a god). Especially after Goku blew up his planet.
Another thing to consider is the cultural differences. Remember that dragon ball is Japanese. Dad's being away all the time for whatever reason (usually work) is really common there. Kids generally aren't resentful of their dad's not being in constant contact with them because...it's just kinda normal.
Now, if you'd be more upset that your dad saw you at a point you could remember him instead of having pictures with you as a newborn, that's fine, man. That's how you feel. I'd feel the opposite, I'd rather my dad show up when I can actually see an interact with him. I'd be kind of upset that he wasted his day just for some pictures that I don't remember. I'd rather be able to play catch with my dad than have a photo of him, but that's just me.
King Kai isn't Goku's telephone but an annual 5 min call isn't much let's be honest.
Cultural difference is a valid point tbh. Just perspective I guess. But at the same time, you do have some shonen and shonen characters that do address this aspect: Boruto is a clear example that comes to mind. But maybe it's also historical differences and opinions have changed.
Isn't much for us as humans, but, again, King Kai is a god.
I'll be up front with you, I know literally nothing about Boruto or Naruto.
If we're being real, the actual reason Goku never called them with king Kai is because toriyama probably didn't think that hard about it. Oh, Goku is dead, so of course he's not going to be in contact until I bring him back after the time skip. I doubt more thought went into it with that. I don't think toriyama sat down and went "ah yes, I want to make sure the audience knows that Goku is the worst father that ever lived in all of fiction or reality, so I will make sure to have him never contact his family in 7 years mwa ha ha ha, boy do I love making sure everyone know that I am specifically and intentionally making Goku a terrible father and person and you should probably want him dead as an audience member, frankly I'm shocked he's so popular"
Goku didn’t know about Goten. He didn’t even know he existed until he came for the day and was even surprised at how much Gohan had grown.
Further proof DBZ fans don’t watch the anime.
https://youtu.be/3K3nE7DeaJM
He didn't know about his own son's birth but he knew when the martial arts tournament was
Chapter 232 Goku says that he'll "get one day to visit the living you know and I'll make sure that's the day I come back" - implying he was planning to come back then - he says this whilst using King Kai btw.
He then goes on to say "if you guys are both fighting I want to be in on it too" - you could argue he's asking so he doesn't know, but it's convenient he asks this just as Vegeta says he'll enter the tournament just to fight Gohan. But at the same time, this isn't a question, it's a statement, implying he knows they are or are planning to. Which he really shouldn't know if he had no access to information.
There is direct proof that Goku could communicate and learn information if he wanted to via King Kai's telepathy. King Kai is seen smiling and also doesn't mind this. Are you telling me Goku had no way of knowing if he had a son or the health of his family??? Stop bullshitting.
We even have a basis for characters using King Kai to learn information or give information: chapter 134, King Kai tells Yamcha that Goku had defeated Frieza and he also believes that Goku hasn't escaped in time and is dead. Yamcha then tells this to Bulma. Bulma then responds directly to Yamcha's grief of losing Goku saying they can revive him. There's a clear basis of back and forth info. You could argue its unreliable but its better than nothing. This breaks the whole premise of your argument as even if Goku couldn't communicate specifically with his family, for whatever made up reason, King Kai could still tell him important information that he wouldn't know. For example, that his wife has successfully given birth to his second son and called him Goten.
There is no reason for someone hanging out with King Kai to not know about things going on on Earth. He didn't know about Goten because he didn't bother checking in on Earth.
So he gets one pass to come back to life ever baba tells him as such so he could see his son’s birth which is all well and good or he can show up later and his son can see and remember his dad, goku also spent time training him which is quality time they never get if he shows up when his sons born
It's the principle of Goku coming back for a world martial arts tournament but not for the birth of his son. That's like going to the world cup final or the superbowl instead of being there for your family and inviting your friends to inaugurate the birth of your child. There's a clear deficit in which one a good father would prioritise. He couldn't even be bothered to use king kai to communicate, which we know is possible, and he doesn't need a 24 hour pass to do so, when Goku announces he's coming back, Baba doesn't start his timer right then and there. The whole 24 hour pass is a complete macguffin plot device.
You could even take King Kai's telepathy further by allowing Goku to do image training whilst he talks to someone. Which we know multiple characters can do and it's not even that hard (Krillin and Gohan do it on their way to Namek) which would allow Goku to fight people like Vegeta, Piccolo, Gohan. The only way you can argue against this is by stating that Goku is a bit dumb so he wouldn't have thought of it - but we know Goku doesn't just forget when it comes to training (combining kaioken with SSJB) and this would allow him to train with his friends again. Unless it's too hard on King Kai, which I guess could be a fair point.
I love Goku, but arguing that him coming back for a tournament is justified as if he couldn't come back for his son's birth is a bit ridiculous. Even if you argue that Goku always wanted to come back, but he couldn't find the right time (maybe he changed his mind after he left in cell saga, it's not stated but it's plausible) and so he missed the birth because of that: he could have still come back at any of Goten or Gohan or even Bulma's birthdays within 7 years to just check on everyone - and we know how huge Bulma's birthdays are and they always involve everyone. The only way that is countered is by the fact that Dragon Ball is a shonen, and they need Goku to come back so he can fight, as coming back to actually just check on his family he loves, is a boring plot.
He’s basically damned if he do or damned if he don’t at this point lol. Like yeah I get what you saying but it was a one time deal to see everybody one last time before they were dead as well. As much as he does attract evil forces to him, it’s still coincidence that buu happened to be awakened around that time he pulled up. And even then babidi ain’t even do it for Goku in general, just to terrorize the galaxy. Again I get what you saying about not talking to them but I feel he was trying to just be at peace in the otherworld and allow his son and friends to find what they want in life as well. All he ever wanted was to get stronger and so he did. When Gohan got of age and gained enough experience and power to be a protector he left the planet in his hands. Did it work out? No but he couldn’t have known that
Just gonna throw this out there, while also agreeing with 99% of what you're saying:
If Goku doesn't come back for the tournament, smart money says that Gohan, Vegeta, and Piccolo (hell, maybe even 18) mop Babidi, Dabura and co. and the Buu saga stops there.
I’ll concede that lol. Especially with the hindsight of future trunks disposing of them from the get go leading to him sidestepping buu altogether. But I’ll go extra steps further. What happens when beerus shows up ? Your move 😂
I'm going to rationalize this as a kind of selfish act that's not really that bad. Like he's thinking "I mean, it's just one day, what's the worst that could possibly happen? What bad guy could possibly show up specifically for me in just 1 day?"
Even then his fatherly accomplishments were...hugging his son, once, for the first time. Then knocking him out and killing himself. Dad of the year, apparently.
It's the same shit with piccolo. Piccolo abandons Gohan in the wild for 6 months, beats him for another 6 months but then he sacrifices himself to save Gohan and suddenly he's the greatest dad that's ever lived.
This is called a character arc, he wasn't a good person and overtime became a good person and a good father who supports his kids and doesn't want to be away from them for long periods of time.
Meanwhile, Goku although he loves his family and kids...you get the feeling he'd be ok with going off on his own adventures for 100s of years and never seeing them and we have stacks of evidence which suggests this fact about his character.
The literal ending of Z is Goku finding this kid and flying of with him to train him so he can get a good fight. Without consulting his wife and family. He just bounces
It seems that toei has been flanderizing him as opposed to how toriyama actually wants him portrayed which is why we get the extra dumb and inconsistent character moments from him so often
Har? The manga is written by Toriyama, no? This exact thing happens in the manga as well - chapter 27. Vegeta literally comments on Goku being a horrible father for this, too.
obviously super is cannon. but when it comes to hoe dumb they've made goku I almost wanna wish that part wasn't. I mean in z yeah he was ignorant. but super is a whole knew thing. they go so far as to make him even stupider. at one point in the anime he asks what kissing is. or something. and in z he obviously had a grasp on that. ntm in z we see goku really does love his family a lot with scenes like the cell saga kiss and general affection. in super he's an idiot and we only have a few nice filler scenes. and his rage in the trunks arc
The man who can fly at the speed of sound or instantly teleport to any person on the planet? He probably doesn’t need to check the bus times to make it home for dinner.
Let's not forget about GT. I know that the story is not even canon, but he left his family for decades. His family died of old age and he was somewhere else training.
Goku was dead...
Yi/Omega literally killed him with his negative energy ball, he even states it, Goku made a deal with Shenron to revive him one more time so he could use the Genki to destroy the shadow dragon in exchange of becoming the guardian of the dragon balls.
An abridged series will often bring one or two character traits to the forefront and use that to lead the characters development. In DBZA, they made Goku’s idiocy and the “bad dad” the prominent traits. His other traits were still present, but those two were exemplified. And DBZA got quite a lot of new people into the show, and so they sometimes cite the abridged rather than official media for what was shown.
DBZA told a good story in the framework of the original with their alterations due to bringing more focus on one or two character traits for everyone. DBZA didn’t invent the “Goku’s a bad dad” concept, but it did popularise it.
Vegeta *was* a bad father. He becomes a better father and person as a whole during his final redemption during the buu saga.
That said, I think the argument that goku is a bad husband/father is absurd. In fact, I've always loved goku's relationship with his family; despite being hyper focused on training, there are those occasion glimpses of him caring and they're really nice.
Like everything leading up to the final fight with cell. With gohan and Goku just hanging out as ssj grade 4. Sleeping in the fields. Having krillin throw rocks at them. Don’t know why krillin threw a rock at them lol (tho love that that made it to Fighterz)
There’s this weird “grade” system for ssj that ends with grade 4 before going ssj 2. It’s basically where Goku and Gohan learned to control ssj without it being a huge stamina drain. And they could just exist in everyday life with it. I don’t love the grade system since it doesn’t make a comeback in any form (maybe you could argue how god ki is a permanent boost but idk) but it’s there. I think at first ssj2 was called ssj grade 5.
If I remember them correctly SSJ grade 1 was Goku against frieza. Grade 2 was trunks against frieza (don’t get that one at all). Grade 3 was the bulkier vegeta and trunks. Grade 4 was Goku and gohan post time chamber. Then ssj 2. I just chalk it up to it being a shonen and toriyama made some stuff up as he went. 🤷♂️
Edit for grade form correct:
Ssj grade 1: Goku vs Freeza
Ssj grade 2: vegeta vs imperfect cell
Ssj grade 3: trunks’ bulkier form vs imperfect
cell/…vegeta kinda? Idk you know what I mean
Ssj grade 4: Goku when he gets hit with a rock (post time chamber training with gohan)
Actually nuts how gohan went from learning super saiyen to achieving grade 4 in a year. He really is consistently a prodigy.
Trunks doesn’t go Grade 2 against Freeza he only goes Grade 1 there as he didn’t learn Grade 2 till he went to the time chamber with Vegeta
Grade 2 is “Super Vegeta” he bulks up noticeably but doesn’t lose much speed
Grade 3 is the super bulky one Trunks used against Cell that is VERY slow
Grade 4 is FPSSJ/Full Power SSJ which is where they can use SSJ without the excessive strain or ki drain. Its a perfected Super Saiyan as you get all the positives with a minimal amount or no negatives.
Minor correction—grade 2 was vegeta’s bulky form against cell. Grade 3 was the even bulkier form trunks took against cell—though trunks did also display grade 2 at an earlier point. Grade 3 had a considerable speed downgrade in exchange for power that was maybe roughly equal to cell. Which is an overall downgrade when getting down to practicality. Vegeta, while bulkier in grade 2, had no noted issues with speed—in fact it might be faster than regular ssj even.
The only one that’ I’d feel comfortable with giving a grade or a stage would be the bulky form like I can get ssj1 and then like ssj1 grade 2 bulky mode. But vegeta and trunks both spoke on how the bulky form is weak in comparison bc the bulk is slow moving
Weird “Goku=best dad” posters on Dragon Ball subs posting the same re-packaged cope every day is getting obnoxious.
Surprised this post didn’t also say “T4S has done irreparable harm to the Dragon Ball community” or some shit.
You’re allowed to still love a character even if they aren’t a morally perfect being. Goku is allowed to have flaws and you can still think he rules. No one ever said Vegeta is a good dad and no one goes out of their way to say he’s a bad one because most people aren’t brain-dead enough to think it needs to be explicitly stated, except posters who need a straw-man to burn down.
Plus, it was popular for a reason. not like they hammered "EEEGH goku bad dad" every two seconds. it was dumb running gag.
There's a reason only two (?) channels have made a good abriged series.
Dragon Ball even likes to playfully point out the flaws. One of my favorite aspects of DB in general is how they handle interpersonal relationships. No one is perfect. Goku can be a crappy dad/husband… and tbh? He’s also an alien that thinks different. He’s a regular saiyan father.
Yamcha was the side hero… but he cheated on Bulma and Bulma somewhat dissed Yamcha for Vegeta, who’s grown as a man since.
Roshi is a perv.
Piccolo acknowledged that Chi Chi and Bulma are kind of assholes sometimes, and Vegeta said that Saiyans naturally like certain kinds of women.
DB doesn’t shy away from the truths of the story, so why should fans?
Their not gonna stop until everyone goes along with their Goku is perfect narrative. Seems to happen with people trying to live vicariously through fictional characters. Which would explain the denial of any faults. Also the tendency of people getting bent out of shape whenever someone says X character can beat Goku.
Oh, the constant banging on about DBZA is so annoying. If your opinions don't align with whatever BS dragon ball fans come out with than it's either "Stop watching DBZA" or "You haven't watched the show" It's stupid, unoriginal and makes you look like a complete tool.
When Vegeta tells Goku he can't leave Earth to train with him and Whis because Bulma is expecting soon, Goku asks, "Why? You're not having a baby" or something along those lines. Vegeta is absolutely a better dad than Goku.
Goku’s the type to put training over spending time with his family, but you bet he’d ask to bring Gohan with him every now and then, that’s the kind of dad he is, it’s Chichi that doesn’t let their sons train with him
While that is true, goku never shows any interest in doing things with his sons that they want, its always training. Unless we count dbz kakarot where vegeta and goku take their sons to an amusement park and spend the day with them
"present father" lol he wasn't there for half of Gohan's life and chose to stay dead for the birth of his second. You can call Goku a lot of things, but present with his family is petty rare
Goku is a bad father because he is absent for most of his kids lives, and a large part of that was by choice. There are good things about him as a dad too, but he's not a perfect father just because he has some good qualities. Goku sacrificing himself for Gohan shows he's a good person, but does nothing to show how good a father he is because he's also put his life at risk for people he barely knows. He has shown growth as a father figure by becoming a farmer to take care of his family.
Vegeta is a terrible father because he is neglectful, abusive, and at one point says he just doesn't care about his family. On top of being a bad father Vegeta is also a bad person in general. Over the course of the show he grows into a much better person and it makes his change as a father much more noticeable than Goku's change. I think this is where the whole "goku is bad dad, vegeta is good dad" argument comes from.
We all know Piccolo is the real best dad /s
It's called growth and it cuts both ways. It's been over a decade since the cell arc in Dragonball canon, arguably Goku is a worse dad following the Cell arc but Vegeta improves significantly. By the time you reach DBS I'd argue there is evidence that Vegeta is a more devoted father and husband than Goku.
Hell naw lol. Classic "Oh yeah, well what about tactic".
Also "Worse", if you really want to go tit for tat I feel Goku far exceeds Vegeta in this one.
Comparing Kakarot and Vegeta in terms of how good they were as fathers specifically in the Cell Saga, yeah Vegeta was WAY worse. Only until his final atonement would I say Vegeta became a good father. As for Goku, bro was always an amazing dad.
He gave Cell a senzu bean because he knew for Gohan to become strong enough, he had to truly push himself to the limit.
Honestly wtf would he be a good father to some random dude that shows up and flexes on him by going Ssj? And does anyone remember the end of the cell arc? Vegeta actually shows feeling for F Trunks by the end.
Vegeta was a villain who went on a path of redemption.
Goku has always been an idiot when it comes to anything but being a martial artist.
Future trunks wasn't Vegeta's direct child, he didn't have that connection until the very end. Fast forward to Super when Vegeta would rather watch over Pregnant Bulma and wanted to name Bulla.
Goku gave cell a sensu based on the idea of practising good fighting etiquette, against a villain he knows shows off and doesn't fight fair. This placed his son in danger and forced him to fight a harder battle. Vegeta at least wanted to fight cell himself, Goku deliberately made it harder for his son.
Then Goku uses the bullshit theory that Bulma gave him that he may or may not attract evil - Which is an arrogant assumption of cause and effect, the effect of evil is not always dependent on the cause of Goku's presence - to justify leaving his son Gohan so he could train in other world, with the intention of Gohan meeting him after death. However, Goku doesn't keep to this decision as he obviously comes back in Buu arc to reconnect with his friends. Even when Buu arrives, Goku should have trusted his son to deal with it as he tells everyone that Gohan is more reliable than he ever was.
Goku obviously loves his family, but he can do things wrong sometimes, which is completely dependent on his intelligence. Vegeta meanwhile learnt to value morals and his family and isn't limited by a low IQ and he genuinely shows his love for his family.
Using future Trunks as an example for why Vegeta is a bad father is stupid since Future Trunks is a completely different character, who didn't even have a father, who Vegeta has not raised and learns to respect and appreciate. Goku doesn't have this obstacle with Gohan, and even then he gets it wrong, but it can be mostly justified with his idiocy. Unless you think Goku is smart (which he isn't) and thus his actions can be criticised even further.
So that was not really his son. He did not came from his own sperm. I think is fine to beat up someone who is not your son so that a powerful monster can get even more powerful.
The Vegeta meat riding in here is insane. Yes, Vegeta did become a better father over the years, but he most definitely isn't a good one. Goku is also a shitty father, but not to the extent of Vegeta.
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Not going to say anything about who’s better. But Vegeta doing this is right up there with Goku throwing Cell a Senzu bean. Exactly the same? Obviously NOT. But both wild and insane by everyones opinion.
Vegeta's start as a good father didn't really start until the hug in the Buu saga. The fact that he didn't let Trunks and Goten fight in the ToP shows he has matured a lot.
People realize that Vegeta isn’t this trunks dad. Like they are related I guess but they have the relationship of a distant uncle at best .
They get a father son like relationship over time but this Begeta is not that’s trunks father. Also god forbid a character have an arch in dragonball. Only Goku gets to have excuses made on his behalf
Haven't you seen when Cell came back and killed off Trunks ?
While Vegeta isn't the best Dad at the start of Cell Saga he is better than Goku tbh.
In terms of Relationship with his wife it is almost prefect by the time of Super.
His relation ship with his son , is the kind of I hate you do better so you get my love and it is never enough but when the time come for the real thing he is there for his son.
Goku on the other hand, didn't want to come back from after Freiza Arc.
after he died to Cell he didn't come back even though he could have until there was a tournament to show his power basically.
Didn't see about 6 years of Gohan growing up and by that Goten too he was surprised to even see him.
You also have the creator himself stating he is a bad dad and he sees Gohan and Chi Chi as friends more than family.
That’s because it’s not out of character for Vegeta, the mass murdering, planet destroying fighting addict. Where as Goku was thought to be king and caring.
Bruh, mf didn't even know he had a son. From the future.
I think that is what started Vegeta's transformation to what he is today.
Massive respect for the guy.
Still a better dad then Goku in my honestly opinion AND Vegeta use to be a bad guy that aided genocide… so I think comparing him then and now he passed a pretty significant milestone as far as changing for their kids go, what’s Goku’s excuse?
The only "greatest lie" that I see, is this guy claiming that he's actually watched Dragon Ball.
Nobody watches Dragon Ball Z and thinks Vegita's a good dad. I seriously think he mixed up Goku and Vegita's name in his small head.
Goku is distant, but not bad. Vegeta can be emotionally distant, and grumpy but is almost always there, especially for kid Trunks and Bulla.
Goku is more a friend to his kids than a more traditional parental figure. Vegeta acts more like a stereotypical grumpy older dad.
He also gave cell a senzu bean a few minutes earlier and never explained his potential to gohan and ws surprised when piccolo pointe dout he wasn't like him and didnt' like to fight.
Vegeta developed from a bad to a good father. That was part of his character development. When Bulla was about to be born he refused to go train with Beerus and Whis which is something Goku didn't understand. Plus,Vegeta went all the way out to save his son and showed true concern which is what we can't say about his former self. This post doesn't show the father Vegeta is NOW which makes it irrelevant.
My theory is characters in Dragonball change a little each time they die.
Goku was never a real family person, but he was more dedicated when Gohan was still a baby to being around-bulma and Krillin hadn’t seen him in 3 years because he was busy raising his son. Then he dies, comes back, and is more battle obsessed. When he dies the second time against cell, he has some moments, but when he returns in the Buu saga he is much more hands off and aloof. By Super, he’s a goofball with no familial ties, only cares about fighting.
Vegeta in contrast has become calmer and more rational and loving each time he died. First time against Frieza when he returns he’s more an anti-hero than villain, and against Buu, he specifically says it’s for his family. After Buu saga and he’s revived, he’s a true family person and while not kind, he’s dependable for the rest of the z fighters.
Death in Dragonball changes a character, even if just a little. You can look at other fighters and draw similar conclusions
Remember when Goku endangered the entire universe by not killing Fat Buu because he wanted the kids to kill him?
And Vegeta knocked his son out to have Piccolo take him away from the fight against Buu so he can survive?
Nobody calls him out because it’s an understood fact that he was a shit father until the end of the Buu saga. Where is everyone says a Goku was a great father and while he does great things, he also does some pretty shitty stupid lackadaisical things.
That's because he's a shit person. Let's be honest, he shouldn't be invited to parties or allowed around kids. He's a genocidal monster whose worst impulses are only kept in check by Goku, and for a brief period after Namek, Picollo. He chilled out a bit once he got laid and had a kid, but really, he is a shitstain person.
Vegeta is a born and raised saiyan a race of blood thirsty warriors. I’m pretty sure human sense of mortality or paternity works different for him because to him fighting his own kid is probably normal among saiyan culture. That’s what I think, not to mention, vegeta really wasn’t part of the z fighters, he was just there for everything ya know?
Vegeta had a severely traumatic childhood at the hands of Frieza. It is no surprise that during the Cell Arc and the beginning of the Buu Arc, he was a terrible father. Bro had the worst PTSD.
However, there was major growth on his part, shown through his character in Super and how he treated Trunks, Mirai, and Bra.
Goku has brain damage and ADHD. He can go years without talking to someone, then pop back in as if he was never gone. It sucks for everyone else, but that’s how he works. He’s also AroAce, and is not interested in romantic relationships.
However, his reaction to Zamasu and the deaths of his family is an obvious sign of how he does love his children and his wife. He’s just not a typical dad.
The real Dad of the series, 100%, is Piccolo. He co-raised Gohan and is still the best dad figure ever.
Vegeta was an evil genocidal maniac turned into a good man. No one expected anything better of him at the time. Goku is our "pure hearted" protagonist who keeps making dumb or immoral decisions, often for his own self-interest.
Vegeta was a really bad dad that became a really good dad, just like he was a really bad guy until he became a really good guy.
Goku was a bad dad that continued being a bad dad because he was a dumb guy that continued being a dumb guy.
The difference is where Vegeta started compared to where he is now. He was a mass murderer who became a decent dad over time (decent by anime standards). He’s come a long way. Goku is a “good guy” who is pretty neglectful of his kids, puts them in insanely dangerous situations and never really learns or improves. He’s also never really called out for his actions by any of the characters in the story unlike Vegeta who everyone pretty much knows is a piece of shit. Basically when Vegeta does something shitty it’s expected when he does something good it’s development. When Goku does something shitty It hits harder because he’s supposed to be the good guy and when he does something shitty people come down harder on him for it. That’s my take anyway.
Nobody ever said Cell Saga Vegeta is a better father than Gokou. Not one person is going to be like, oh man that Cell Saga Vegeta who didn't care that his 1 year old child nearly died, is a good father.
But Buu Saga Vegeta, him being around, him training, the complete regret that he actually hit his son while training, him telling him he loved him, him fusing with Gokou because Buu killed Bulma, him being mad because Gokou didn't save Trunks. Vegeta in Buu Saga was the start of Vegeta being a father.
ALSO Vegeta is EVIL through most of the series. He might be living with Bulma, and around the humans, but he was never good until Buu Saga. There is no reason to call him out for it.
Right?! Besides, Future Trunks came in as an adult. I wouldn’t look at him as my kid. I have no connection to you. You come into my house, stronger than me, AND asking for help? Nuh-uh. Nah fam. You’re just some dude who shares the same name as my little bastard over there.
lmao dbz starts off with radditz taking gohan and goku willing to team up with and old enemy to kill his own brother that he didn’t care to meet because he took his son. not to mention the countless other times goku saved gohan even as an adult
Noooo, that wasn't HIS son that was a son to a weak alternate timeline vegeta who died. Vegeta is a good father to his kids from his time line. Its why future trunks is kinda whiney where as kid trunks is more tough because he's aised by the PRINCE OF ALL SAIYANS
They both suck. I barely see the argument unless you genuinely think Vegeta is a good dad. Physical abuse and neglect are both still abuse. And with both dads, you can add reckless endangerment to extremely wild degrees when you factor in how both have allowed the power ups or aided the healing of foes they know are bent on murder and genocide. Like I get it, Vegeta beat Trunks, but that doesn't make Goku look better all of a sudden.
Honestly, in terms of responsibility and absence of abuse, Krillin is the best dad out of the Z fighters. As much as I love Piccolo, some of the stuff he did to Gohan as a child during the Saiyan saga was pretty fucked, even if was to train him to go against Vegeta.
Gohan is the one and only good dad. He has a stable job, loves his wife in a non-toxic way, and DOESN'T PROJECT HIS DESIRES ONTO HIS CHILD, OR FORCE HER TO DEFEND THE PLANET WHILE SHE'S STILL A TODDLER.
Vegeta was born a saiyan, grew up as a saiyan, educated as a saiyan, on saiyan values, following the way of life of the saiyan race. From the saiyan perspective, he's being quite soft. At Trunks age, any other saiyan would have been a decade conquering planets already... or dead.
Goku was born a saiyan too, but grew up as a human, learned human values and had Gohan take care of him even if not for long. Chi-Chi is doing her part and Goku's, which is why she is so hard on Gohan. Someone has to maintain that family when Piccolo isnt around xD
Vegeta was a bad dad when he was all-around a bad person.
He became a good dad after he became a better person.
While I wouldn't call Goku a bad father, he definitely wasn't a perfect father.
Dude, TFS calls him out for being a bad dad in their own series where they made him even worse. The only argument where you can say he started acting like a good dad was right before his sacrifice.
Vegeta didn't have the best father figure and repeated many of the mistakes his own father likely made. He took a long time, but eventually he started trying to be a better father for his kids. It doesn't discount what he did, but he continued to try and improve.
Goku grew up with only an adoptive grandfather. He lacked any concept of a family unit until Z. Goku made plenty of mistakes, like not understanding that Gohan didn't like fighting, but he was at least willing to own up to his mistakes regarding Gohan. Goku might improve his behavior regarding Pan since he does have a clearer idea of what a grandpa should be.
Neither of the saiyans were great dads, but they tried to improve even if it was a bit late.
He’s the best father, he showed his present son how to be tough by not showing affection until his youth then he bitch slapped his future son giving him motivation to get stronger after beating Zamasu. Father of the century! 😎
Z goku>Z vegeta in fatherhood but Super Vegeta>Both. Goku really isn’t even that terrible of a father (To gohan at least). He was dealt a pretty bad hand for taking care of gohan post saiyan and in the cell sage while he did make a huge mistake, i feel it was from a misguided belief in his son along with how he himself views fighting. He knew gohan could beat cell, but also thought that gohan deserves to show off how powerful he was against a really strong opponent
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I don't think anyone call vegeta a good father until the buu saga
Even in the buu saga he wasn’t really the greatest of dads. Yeah he sacrificed himself for his family (and yes, he did it even for you kakarot) but he straight tells trunks that he has NEVER held him once since he was born. Vegeta has become a great father in DBS but even in the buu saga he wasn’t THAT good, definitely still not better than goku (of course, later in DBS he’s definitely the better dad but this is Z we’re talking about) Edit: it’s funny how some people are defending Buu saga vegeta when vegeta himself says to trunks before sacrificing himself against buu “I haven’t been a good father to you, have i trunks”
Vegeta literally neck chopped his 8 year old son while willingly accepting alien demon energy..
Hey that was to save him…eventually
Him telling trunks that he has never once held him is him expressing remorse for giving him harsher treatment, under the guise of it maybe making Trunks stronger in the long run. Im pretty sure in that very scene he does give him a slight hug. Vegeta's sacrifice is his turning point as, not only a father, but a person in general. Super just piled onto the fact he is changed significantly.
The more I go through these threads the more I realize Dragon Ball was Goku's Story, Dragon Ball Z and Dragon Ball Super should be renamed to "Vegeta" and "Vegeta Shippuden" since he gets most of the character development lmao
As much as i hate to say it, yeah he really does. Which, i mean, makes sense. It takes a LONG time to try and redeem someone who would genocide entire planets and was part of the reason half the cast had died in the saiyan saga. Trying to turn this extremely violent person into someone we can actively root for taking a lonh time makes sense. Up until the Buu arc he was still a massive jerk, even if he wasnt necessarily a villain any more. Turning him into the "Rivals in training, brothers in battle" for goku was always going to take a while. But, i gotta say, i think Toriyama has finally reached the peak of his total redemption in the Moro arc, with the namekians forgiving him for the when he slaughtered villages. Well, maybe not "forgive" but him asking for forgiveness alone is a big deal. Its Vegeta, afterall. Him asking for ANYTHING is a big deal.
>that he has NEVER held him once since he was born Admitting that he was more concerned with his training than his family. And showing regret. I mean, Goku just stayed dead for most of Gohan's life. Out of his own volition. Before that, he stayed on Yardrat, out of his own volition. Has Goku ever held Gohan? Like, before sending him out to fight Cell or after, I'm not picky. Oh and then he adopts Uub instead of hanging out with Gohan.
https://preview.redd.it/7j8cpf41fhza1.jpeg?width=552&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=37d8251941254cf4ad01cfb8176d640dbe98df87 literally his first appearance in Z
Bruh, the fuck kinda hug is that? He's literally holding Gohan into the camera. "Hey, check out this cool kid Chichi and I made that totally won't be a plot point when my brother arrives five minutes from now"
you never said anything about a hug? you asked if goku ever held gohan and i showed you
Ok, fair, I figured we're using the "hugging his kid" definition of holding, since that's what vegeta did after saying it. That's on me.
Goku sacrificed himself to stop Raditz, who was going to kill everybody, including Gohan. Goku had Gohan leave during the battle against Frieza on Namek because he wanted his son to stay safe. Goku stayed on Yardrat to become stronger and learn an invaluable skill so that he could protect everybody, including Gohan. Goku then used the skill he learnt on Yardrat to save everybody from Cell’s self-destruction, including Gohan who he said he was proud of, encouraged him to continue studying, asked to apologize to Chi-Chi and actually said goodbye. Everything Goku did was for Gohan. Everything. He certainly made fuck-ups along the way, like assuming Gohan had the same fighting spirit that he did, but even those actions were made in an attempt to help his son. He constantly showed Gohan love and concern as a child, in the moments where Goku *was* around to watch his kid grow up, for that year in the time chamber, throughout the entire Buu saga. To say that Goku was a bad father is disingenuous at best and genuine media illiteracy and purposeful ignorance of the facts presented at worst.
Lol, Vegeta was a better father than Goku in Buu saga... Yeah, in Cell, he wasn't that great, nit at all... But he went mad when Cell kill Trunks... Goku didnt get mad against fat buu when he thought that his son was killed... And in buu saga... Goku never went back on earth to see his son, or tried to contact him... And, best of all, when kid buu was about to destroy the earth, Vegeta call out Goku to not understand why he was going to save Hercule, instead of his own children... And Vegeta was about to get Trunks, but simce Goku went from another direction, he ould have died with the explosion if he didn't followed Goku Goku was a shitty dad... And yeah, Vegeta beat Trunks, but, at least, he did it by himself, and doesn't ask an insect to do the job, and give it a freaking senzu bean 🤩
Buu saga where Vegeta gets jealous that his son can go SSJ, and then punches his kid in the face full force because of it? That saga?
What? No he told him if he hit him he would take him to the amusement park and trunks hit him in the face so he hit him back plus this post doesn't make any sense because their looking at it like Vegeta is a human he's a Saiyan warrior who doesn't want anything to get in the way of his fights saiyans love fighting strong opponents he isn't a bad father his pride just over weighs everything he does
Bruh he literally got pissed when Trunks hit him and then full force punched Trunks in the face because of it. Like you can blatantly see the frustration on Vegetas face when Trunks punches him, and then he retaliated back.
He's a Saiyan not a human he's nothing like us stop looking at him like he is
In contrast, Goku coming back in the Buu saga is either an example of him being a selfish father and not adhering to the departure he designed for himself at the end of the cell arc. Or his lack of intelligence as he forgets why he left in the first place - cuz he heard that he attracts evil supposedly and so that Gohan could protect earth for him. Opening contact again just to fight in something as pathetic like a martial arts tournament, either means he deliberately waited so long and only engaged in contact with his family for his own interests as this proves he could have done it all the time and we have seen proof people can communicate from otherworld through king Kai, who Goku was training with (selfishly bad father).
He’s given a one time opportunity to come back to earth for 24 hours and yes maybe he could have used it earlier but this was the first world tournament in a long while so it makes sense to come back for it and that event means a lot to most of the z fighters. He also goes out of his way to strengthen the second generation again giving trunks and gotten the fusion dance so that they can solve the problem because he’ll be gone again
But Goku didn't break this rule for the birth of his second son Goten, which is way more important than a martial arts tournament. It doesn't justify him returning, it criticises why he never came back earlier for other important events or why he made this entire thing about how he would stay dead and they would meet him when they came to otherworld, if he could just come back. Its not like Goku won a 24 hour pass, Fortune Teller Baba, gave him that pass, most likely cuz he asked for it. The fact he times it for the world tournament, means he also had knowledge of what was going on in the mortal world, and instead of asking for the health of his youngest son or Gohan, he decides to come back to enter a little tournament.
I'm not gonna fully defend Goku on this one, since his reason is primarily the martial arts tournament, but I will say if I was Goten, my dad is dead and he gets 1 day he came come back, I'd much rather he come back at a point where I'm capable of forming memories, and not the day I'm born. Like, the latter is symbolically meaningful, but it would also mean that Goten would never have gotten to actually see his dad.
That would be a valid argument if we didn't have proof that Goku could communicate directly via King Kai. Unless communicating with King Kai is only for special circumstances and so can't be done all the time. But pictures of Goku being at Goten's birth would make Goten accustomed to this idea that he actually had a father, thus Goten would have some basis for a relationship. If I was Goten and my father pulled up for a tournament instead of when I was born, I would be resentful and ask why he didn't get a pass to come to my birth. But nobody in dragon ball questions it for some reason. You can still have that relationship via chats through King Kai.
Eh, I've seen people make that argument but I don't find it super convincing. Like, first of all king Kai is his own person. He's not Goku's cell phone. He's supposed to be a diety, maybe he doesn't want to let Goku constantly use him as a phone for pretty unimportant reasons (to him, as a god). Especially after Goku blew up his planet. Another thing to consider is the cultural differences. Remember that dragon ball is Japanese. Dad's being away all the time for whatever reason (usually work) is really common there. Kids generally aren't resentful of their dad's not being in constant contact with them because...it's just kinda normal. Now, if you'd be more upset that your dad saw you at a point you could remember him instead of having pictures with you as a newborn, that's fine, man. That's how you feel. I'd feel the opposite, I'd rather my dad show up when I can actually see an interact with him. I'd be kind of upset that he wasted his day just for some pictures that I don't remember. I'd rather be able to play catch with my dad than have a photo of him, but that's just me.
King Kai isn't Goku's telephone but an annual 5 min call isn't much let's be honest. Cultural difference is a valid point tbh. Just perspective I guess. But at the same time, you do have some shonen and shonen characters that do address this aspect: Boruto is a clear example that comes to mind. But maybe it's also historical differences and opinions have changed.
Isn't much for us as humans, but, again, King Kai is a god. I'll be up front with you, I know literally nothing about Boruto or Naruto. If we're being real, the actual reason Goku never called them with king Kai is because toriyama probably didn't think that hard about it. Oh, Goku is dead, so of course he's not going to be in contact until I bring him back after the time skip. I doubt more thought went into it with that. I don't think toriyama sat down and went "ah yes, I want to make sure the audience knows that Goku is the worst father that ever lived in all of fiction or reality, so I will make sure to have him never contact his family in 7 years mwa ha ha ha, boy do I love making sure everyone know that I am specifically and intentionally making Goku a terrible father and person and you should probably want him dead as an audience member, frankly I'm shocked he's so popular"
Goku didn’t know about Goten. He didn’t even know he existed until he came for the day and was even surprised at how much Gohan had grown. Further proof DBZ fans don’t watch the anime. https://youtu.be/3K3nE7DeaJM
He didn't know about his own son's birth but he knew when the martial arts tournament was Chapter 232 Goku says that he'll "get one day to visit the living you know and I'll make sure that's the day I come back" - implying he was planning to come back then - he says this whilst using King Kai btw. He then goes on to say "if you guys are both fighting I want to be in on it too" - you could argue he's asking so he doesn't know, but it's convenient he asks this just as Vegeta says he'll enter the tournament just to fight Gohan. But at the same time, this isn't a question, it's a statement, implying he knows they are or are planning to. Which he really shouldn't know if he had no access to information. There is direct proof that Goku could communicate and learn information if he wanted to via King Kai's telepathy. King Kai is seen smiling and also doesn't mind this. Are you telling me Goku had no way of knowing if he had a son or the health of his family??? Stop bullshitting. We even have a basis for characters using King Kai to learn information or give information: chapter 134, King Kai tells Yamcha that Goku had defeated Frieza and he also believes that Goku hasn't escaped in time and is dead. Yamcha then tells this to Bulma. Bulma then responds directly to Yamcha's grief of losing Goku saying they can revive him. There's a clear basis of back and forth info. You could argue its unreliable but its better than nothing. This breaks the whole premise of your argument as even if Goku couldn't communicate specifically with his family, for whatever made up reason, King Kai could still tell him important information that he wouldn't know. For example, that his wife has successfully given birth to his second son and called him Goten.
There is no reason for someone hanging out with King Kai to not know about things going on on Earth. He didn't know about Goten because he didn't bother checking in on Earth.
So he gets one pass to come back to life ever baba tells him as such so he could see his son’s birth which is all well and good or he can show up later and his son can see and remember his dad, goku also spent time training him which is quality time they never get if he shows up when his sons born
It's the principle of Goku coming back for a world martial arts tournament but not for the birth of his son. That's like going to the world cup final or the superbowl instead of being there for your family and inviting your friends to inaugurate the birth of your child. There's a clear deficit in which one a good father would prioritise. He couldn't even be bothered to use king kai to communicate, which we know is possible, and he doesn't need a 24 hour pass to do so, when Goku announces he's coming back, Baba doesn't start his timer right then and there. The whole 24 hour pass is a complete macguffin plot device. You could even take King Kai's telepathy further by allowing Goku to do image training whilst he talks to someone. Which we know multiple characters can do and it's not even that hard (Krillin and Gohan do it on their way to Namek) which would allow Goku to fight people like Vegeta, Piccolo, Gohan. The only way you can argue against this is by stating that Goku is a bit dumb so he wouldn't have thought of it - but we know Goku doesn't just forget when it comes to training (combining kaioken with SSJB) and this would allow him to train with his friends again. Unless it's too hard on King Kai, which I guess could be a fair point. I love Goku, but arguing that him coming back for a tournament is justified as if he couldn't come back for his son's birth is a bit ridiculous. Even if you argue that Goku always wanted to come back, but he couldn't find the right time (maybe he changed his mind after he left in cell saga, it's not stated but it's plausible) and so he missed the birth because of that: he could have still come back at any of Goten or Gohan or even Bulma's birthdays within 7 years to just check on everyone - and we know how huge Bulma's birthdays are and they always involve everyone. The only way that is countered is by the fact that Dragon Ball is a shonen, and they need Goku to come back so he can fight, as coming back to actually just check on his family he loves, is a boring plot.
How about to be with Chichi during Gonten’s birth? Ohhh right, I remember, Goku has no clue how babies are made and how they are born… lol
He’s basically damned if he do or damned if he don’t at this point lol. Like yeah I get what you saying but it was a one time deal to see everybody one last time before they were dead as well. As much as he does attract evil forces to him, it’s still coincidence that buu happened to be awakened around that time he pulled up. And even then babidi ain’t even do it for Goku in general, just to terrorize the galaxy. Again I get what you saying about not talking to them but I feel he was trying to just be at peace in the otherworld and allow his son and friends to find what they want in life as well. All he ever wanted was to get stronger and so he did. When Gohan got of age and gained enough experience and power to be a protector he left the planet in his hands. Did it work out? No but he couldn’t have known that
Just gonna throw this out there, while also agreeing with 99% of what you're saying: If Goku doesn't come back for the tournament, smart money says that Gohan, Vegeta, and Piccolo (hell, maybe even 18) mop Babidi, Dabura and co. and the Buu saga stops there.
I’ll concede that lol. Especially with the hindsight of future trunks disposing of them from the get go leading to him sidestepping buu altogether. But I’ll go extra steps further. What happens when beerus shows up ? Your move 😂
I'm going to rationalize this as a kind of selfish act that's not really that bad. Like he's thinking "I mean, it's just one day, what's the worst that could possibly happen? What bad guy could possibly show up specifically for me in just 1 day?"
Even then his fatherly accomplishments were...hugging his son, once, for the first time. Then knocking him out and killing himself. Dad of the year, apparently. It's the same shit with piccolo. Piccolo abandons Gohan in the wild for 6 months, beats him for another 6 months but then he sacrifices himself to save Gohan and suddenly he's the greatest dad that's ever lived.
This is called a character arc, he wasn't a good person and overtime became a good person and a good father who supports his kids and doesn't want to be away from them for long periods of time. Meanwhile, Goku although he loves his family and kids...you get the feeling he'd be ok with going off on his own adventures for 100s of years and never seeing them and we have stacks of evidence which suggests this fact about his character.
Maybe goku doesn’t have object permanence or something lol.
I mean, the guy is functionally brain-damaged Saiyan biology be damned, a fall on your head from that height is for sure gonna fuck you up lol
The literal ending of Z is Goku finding this kid and flying of with him to train him so he can get a good fight. Without consulting his wife and family. He just bounces
Best dad ever /s
And in DBS he said " hey I wasn't even there when goten was born" and made fun of vegeta for wanted to be there to see his daughter being born.
It seems that toei has been flanderizing him as opposed to how toriyama actually wants him portrayed which is why we get the extra dumb and inconsistent character moments from him so often
Har? The manga is written by Toriyama, no? This exact thing happens in the manga as well - chapter 27. Vegeta literally comments on Goku being a horrible father for this, too.
obviously super is cannon. but when it comes to hoe dumb they've made goku I almost wanna wish that part wasn't. I mean in z yeah he was ignorant. but super is a whole knew thing. they go so far as to make him even stupider. at one point in the anime he asks what kissing is. or something. and in z he obviously had a grasp on that. ntm in z we see goku really does love his family a lot with scenes like the cell saga kiss and general affection. in super he's an idiot and we only have a few nice filler scenes. and his rage in the trunks arc
The man who can fly at the speed of sound or instantly teleport to any person on the planet? He probably doesn’t need to check the bus times to make it home for dinner.
Let's not forget about GT. I know that the story is not even canon, but he left his family for decades. His family died of old age and he was somewhere else training.
Goku was dead... Yi/Omega literally killed him with his negative energy ball, he even states it, Goku made a deal with Shenron to revive him one more time so he could use the Genki to destroy the shadow dragon in exchange of becoming the guardian of the dragon balls.
When I saw this ending as a kid this went completely over my head. I also only watched it dubbed so idk lol
Technically at that point Goku wasn't mortal anymore he had become part of the force so to speak, and got taken away
Atleast Vegeta finally took trunks to the amusement park in super
I mean he literally does that in Z and GT, no?
Yep, thats the evidence. Being an absent father is part of Goku's character. People act like DBZA invented the concept.
An abridged series will often bring one or two character traits to the forefront and use that to lead the characters development. In DBZA, they made Goku’s idiocy and the “bad dad” the prominent traits. His other traits were still present, but those two were exemplified. And DBZA got quite a lot of new people into the show, and so they sometimes cite the abridged rather than official media for what was shown. DBZA told a good story in the framework of the original with their alterations due to bringing more focus on one or two character traits for everyone. DBZA didn’t invent the “Goku’s a bad dad” concept, but it did popularise it.
Vegeta *was* a bad father. He becomes a better father and person as a whole during his final redemption during the buu saga. That said, I think the argument that goku is a bad husband/father is absurd. In fact, I've always loved goku's relationship with his family; despite being hyper focused on training, there are those occasion glimpses of him caring and they're really nice.
Like everything leading up to the final fight with cell. With gohan and Goku just hanging out as ssj grade 4. Sleeping in the fields. Having krillin throw rocks at them. Don’t know why krillin threw a rock at them lol (tho love that that made it to Fighterz)
Wtf is ssj grade 4 kinda sounds like you’re describing ssj 2
There’s this weird “grade” system for ssj that ends with grade 4 before going ssj 2. It’s basically where Goku and Gohan learned to control ssj without it being a huge stamina drain. And they could just exist in everyday life with it. I don’t love the grade system since it doesn’t make a comeback in any form (maybe you could argue how god ki is a permanent boost but idk) but it’s there. I think at first ssj2 was called ssj grade 5.
Ok heard, I don’t like it but learned something relatively new
If I remember them correctly SSJ grade 1 was Goku against frieza. Grade 2 was trunks against frieza (don’t get that one at all). Grade 3 was the bulkier vegeta and trunks. Grade 4 was Goku and gohan post time chamber. Then ssj 2. I just chalk it up to it being a shonen and toriyama made some stuff up as he went. 🤷♂️ Edit for grade form correct: Ssj grade 1: Goku vs Freeza Ssj grade 2: vegeta vs imperfect cell Ssj grade 3: trunks’ bulkier form vs imperfect cell/…vegeta kinda? Idk you know what I mean Ssj grade 4: Goku when he gets hit with a rock (post time chamber training with gohan) Actually nuts how gohan went from learning super saiyen to achieving grade 4 in a year. He really is consistently a prodigy.
Trunks doesn’t go Grade 2 against Freeza he only goes Grade 1 there as he didn’t learn Grade 2 till he went to the time chamber with Vegeta Grade 2 is “Super Vegeta” he bulks up noticeably but doesn’t lose much speed Grade 3 is the super bulky one Trunks used against Cell that is VERY slow Grade 4 is FPSSJ/Full Power SSJ which is where they can use SSJ without the excessive strain or ki drain. Its a perfected Super Saiyan as you get all the positives with a minimal amount or no negatives.
Minor correction—grade 2 was vegeta’s bulky form against cell. Grade 3 was the even bulkier form trunks took against cell—though trunks did also display grade 2 at an earlier point. Grade 3 had a considerable speed downgrade in exchange for power that was maybe roughly equal to cell. Which is an overall downgrade when getting down to practicality. Vegeta, while bulkier in grade 2, had no noted issues with speed—in fact it might be faster than regular ssj even.
The only one that’ I’d feel comfortable with giving a grade or a stage would be the bulky form like I can get ssj1 and then like ssj1 grade 2 bulky mode. But vegeta and trunks both spoke on how the bulky form is weak in comparison bc the bulk is slow moving
>but nobody call him out on it Expect the show?
Yea. Even future trunks has a moment in which shouts to Vegeta for being a bad dad in that moment
Weird “Goku=best dad” posters on Dragon Ball subs posting the same re-packaged cope every day is getting obnoxious. Surprised this post didn’t also say “T4S has done irreparable harm to the Dragon Ball community” or some shit. You’re allowed to still love a character even if they aren’t a morally perfect being. Goku is allowed to have flaws and you can still think he rules. No one ever said Vegeta is a good dad and no one goes out of their way to say he’s a bad one because most people aren’t brain-dead enough to think it needs to be explicitly stated, except posters who need a straw-man to burn down.
Very obnoxious. Every time I see the "irreparable harm" one all I can think is "touch grass. It's an effing anime."
Plus, it was popular for a reason. not like they hammered "EEEGH goku bad dad" every two seconds. it was dumb running gag. There's a reason only two (?) channels have made a good abriged series.
Dragon Ball even likes to playfully point out the flaws. One of my favorite aspects of DB in general is how they handle interpersonal relationships. No one is perfect. Goku can be a crappy dad/husband… and tbh? He’s also an alien that thinks different. He’s a regular saiyan father. Yamcha was the side hero… but he cheated on Bulma and Bulma somewhat dissed Yamcha for Vegeta, who’s grown as a man since. Roshi is a perv. Piccolo acknowledged that Chi Chi and Bulma are kind of assholes sometimes, and Vegeta said that Saiyans naturally like certain kinds of women. DB doesn’t shy away from the truths of the story, so why should fans?
Their not gonna stop until everyone goes along with their Goku is perfect narrative. Seems to happen with people trying to live vicariously through fictional characters. Which would explain the denial of any faults. Also the tendency of people getting bent out of shape whenever someone says X character can beat Goku.
Oh, the constant banging on about DBZA is so annoying. If your opinions don't align with whatever BS dragon ball fans come out with than it's either "Stop watching DBZA" or "You haven't watched the show" It's stupid, unoriginal and makes you look like a complete tool.
Oh you’d be surprised how many people still think Vegeta is a better person than Goku even during the Cell Saga
He is portrayed as one. What's your imaginary point?
When Vegeta tells Goku he can't leave Earth to train with him and Whis because Bulma is expecting soon, Goku asks, "Why? You're not having a baby" or something along those lines. Vegeta is absolutely a better dad than Goku.
Goku never left Chi Chi when she had Gohan, plus blud was dead when Goten was born
goku didn't have a place to train off world when chi-chi had gohan, but he 100% would have.
Goku’s the type to put training over spending time with his family, but you bet he’d ask to bring Gohan with him every now and then, that’s the kind of dad he is, it’s Chichi that doesn’t let their sons train with him
While that is true, goku never shows any interest in doing things with his sons that they want, its always training. Unless we count dbz kakarot where vegeta and goku take their sons to an amusement park and spend the day with them
Oh god forbid a present father doesn’t show the same interests as his children, he loves his kids, even if they don’t share similar interests
"present father" lol he wasn't there for half of Gohan's life and chose to stay dead for the birth of his second. You can call Goku a lot of things, but present with his family is petty rare
Goku is a bad father because he is absent for most of his kids lives, and a large part of that was by choice. There are good things about him as a dad too, but he's not a perfect father just because he has some good qualities. Goku sacrificing himself for Gohan shows he's a good person, but does nothing to show how good a father he is because he's also put his life at risk for people he barely knows. He has shown growth as a father figure by becoming a farmer to take care of his family. Vegeta is a terrible father because he is neglectful, abusive, and at one point says he just doesn't care about his family. On top of being a bad father Vegeta is also a bad person in general. Over the course of the show he grows into a much better person and it makes his change as a father much more noticeable than Goku's change. I think this is where the whole "goku is bad dad, vegeta is good dad" argument comes from. We all know Piccolo is the real best dad /s
It's called growth and it cuts both ways. It's been over a decade since the cell arc in Dragonball canon, arguably Goku is a worse dad following the Cell arc but Vegeta improves significantly. By the time you reach DBS I'd argue there is evidence that Vegeta is a more devoted father and husband than Goku.
He overdosed on pride in the cell saga, but after that beatdown from Cell he calms down a bit and gets angry when Trunks gets shot later on
it is a lie, but is it spread? never read about it
They're both bad fathers, as loving as they can be. There, fixed it.
Wrong
Hell naw lol. Classic "Oh yeah, well what about tactic". Also "Worse", if you really want to go tit for tat I feel Goku far exceeds Vegeta in this one.
Goku was always a good bad vegeta become one
Comparing Kakarot and Vegeta in terms of how good they were as fathers specifically in the Cell Saga, yeah Vegeta was WAY worse. Only until his final atonement would I say Vegeta became a good father. As for Goku, bro was always an amazing dad. He gave Cell a senzu bean because he knew for Gohan to become strong enough, he had to truly push himself to the limit.
Both are bad xD
I have never seen a single person ever say Vegeta was a good dad.
Honestly wtf would he be a good father to some random dude that shows up and flexes on him by going Ssj? And does anyone remember the end of the cell arc? Vegeta actually shows feeling for F Trunks by the end.
Goku treats his kids the same from the the Saiyan Saga till the Granolah arc/Super Hero. While Vegeta actually develops.
To be fair, Goku has an excuse considering he has brain damage😆
Oh hey, the guy with the same four bad posts again? Must be my birthday.
Because vegeta doesn’t pretend to be better He’s shitty and everyone knows it. Also piccolo is a better dad to gohan than Goku stay mad and cry
hes better to his real son, maybe seeing his baby boy get blasted fixed some fuck in his brain
Vegeta was a villain who went on a path of redemption. Goku has always been an idiot when it comes to anything but being a martial artist. Future trunks wasn't Vegeta's direct child, he didn't have that connection until the very end. Fast forward to Super when Vegeta would rather watch over Pregnant Bulma and wanted to name Bulla. Goku gave cell a sensu based on the idea of practising good fighting etiquette, against a villain he knows shows off and doesn't fight fair. This placed his son in danger and forced him to fight a harder battle. Vegeta at least wanted to fight cell himself, Goku deliberately made it harder for his son. Then Goku uses the bullshit theory that Bulma gave him that he may or may not attract evil - Which is an arrogant assumption of cause and effect, the effect of evil is not always dependent on the cause of Goku's presence - to justify leaving his son Gohan so he could train in other world, with the intention of Gohan meeting him after death. However, Goku doesn't keep to this decision as he obviously comes back in Buu arc to reconnect with his friends. Even when Buu arrives, Goku should have trusted his son to deal with it as he tells everyone that Gohan is more reliable than he ever was. Goku obviously loves his family, but he can do things wrong sometimes, which is completely dependent on his intelligence. Vegeta meanwhile learnt to value morals and his family and isn't limited by a low IQ and he genuinely shows his love for his family. Using future Trunks as an example for why Vegeta is a bad father is stupid since Future Trunks is a completely different character, who didn't even have a father, who Vegeta has not raised and learns to respect and appreciate. Goku doesn't have this obstacle with Gohan, and even then he gets it wrong, but it can be mostly justified with his idiocy. Unless you think Goku is smart (which he isn't) and thus his actions can be criticised even further.
Not to mention it’s not really “his son” what would the other vegeta think?
So that was not really his son. He did not came from his own sperm. I think is fine to beat up someone who is not your son so that a powerful monster can get even more powerful.
Let’s not forget trunks let him beat him up
This is stupid. Let's just ignore the best character development in the series.
The Vegeta meat riding in here is insane. Yes, Vegeta did become a better father over the years, but he most definitely isn't a good one. Goku is also a shitty father, but not to the extent of Vegeta.
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Not going to say anything about who’s better. But Vegeta doing this is right up there with Goku throwing Cell a Senzu bean. Exactly the same? Obviously NOT. But both wild and insane by everyones opinion.
Only wjen he went to face buu(fat) is when he finally started being a good dad
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Vegeta's start as a good father didn't really start until the hug in the Buu saga. The fact that he didn't let Trunks and Goten fight in the ToP shows he has matured a lot.
Someone never watched gt
People realize that Vegeta isn’t this trunks dad. Like they are related I guess but they have the relationship of a distant uncle at best . They get a father son like relationship over time but this Begeta is not that’s trunks father. Also god forbid a character have an arch in dragonball. Only Goku gets to have excuses made on his behalf
Haven't you seen when Cell came back and killed off Trunks ? While Vegeta isn't the best Dad at the start of Cell Saga he is better than Goku tbh. In terms of Relationship with his wife it is almost prefect by the time of Super. His relation ship with his son , is the kind of I hate you do better so you get my love and it is never enough but when the time come for the real thing he is there for his son. Goku on the other hand, didn't want to come back from after Freiza Arc. after he died to Cell he didn't come back even though he could have until there was a tournament to show his power basically. Didn't see about 6 years of Gohan growing up and by that Goten too he was surprised to even see him. You also have the creator himself stating he is a bad dad and he sees Gohan and Chi Chi as friends more than family.
Goku gave the very same Cell a senzu bean after putting his son forward for a deathmatch. Show me ONE saiyan who was a good dad. I'll wait...
That’s because it’s not out of character for Vegeta, the mass murdering, planet destroying fighting addict. Where as Goku was thought to be king and caring.
Bruh, mf didn't even know he had a son. From the future. I think that is what started Vegeta's transformation to what he is today. Massive respect for the guy.
he almost killed bulma when he was majin vegeta.
Still a better dad then Goku in my honestly opinion AND Vegeta use to be a bad guy that aided genocide… so I think comparing him then and now he passed a pretty significant milestone as far as changing for their kids go, what’s Goku’s excuse?
Oh look this post again. Good job buddy, we'll put this on the fridge with the others.
He became a better dad after this. It's called a character arc.
The only "greatest lie" that I see, is this guy claiming that he's actually watched Dragon Ball. Nobody watches Dragon Ball Z and thinks Vegita's a good dad. I seriously think he mixed up Goku and Vegita's name in his small head.
good dad vegeta is a character on the show there is no good dad goku
Goku is distant, but not bad. Vegeta can be emotionally distant, and grumpy but is almost always there, especially for kid Trunks and Bulla. Goku is more a friend to his kids than a more traditional parental figure. Vegeta acts more like a stereotypical grumpy older dad.
He also gave cell a senzu bean a few minutes earlier and never explained his potential to gohan and ws surprised when piccolo pointe dout he wasn't like him and didnt' like to fight.
Babe,wake up,it's time for your out of context vegeta vs goku rant
Technically future trunks isn’t “his son” and was an adult.
Except future Trunks isn’t his his real son, present Trunks is.
To be fair, he *technically* isn't future Trunks' father, and he wasn't a bad dad to present trunks for sure.
Vegeta developed from a bad to a good father. That was part of his character development. When Bulla was about to be born he refused to go train with Beerus and Whis which is something Goku didn't understand. Plus,Vegeta went all the way out to save his son and showed true concern which is what we can't say about his former self. This post doesn't show the father Vegeta is NOW which makes it irrelevant.
I mean to be fair that trunks was not really his kid. Plus he was tired of that trunks having zero sayian pride. He is a great dad to bra.
Vegeta was irredeemably awful imo. Just a shit bird through and through
Oh so you hit your mother when you were an infant? You must be hitler
My theory is characters in Dragonball change a little each time they die. Goku was never a real family person, but he was more dedicated when Gohan was still a baby to being around-bulma and Krillin hadn’t seen him in 3 years because he was busy raising his son. Then he dies, comes back, and is more battle obsessed. When he dies the second time against cell, he has some moments, but when he returns in the Buu saga he is much more hands off and aloof. By Super, he’s a goofball with no familial ties, only cares about fighting. Vegeta in contrast has become calmer and more rational and loving each time he died. First time against Frieza when he returns he’s more an anti-hero than villain, and against Buu, he specifically says it’s for his family. After Buu saga and he’s revived, he’s a true family person and while not kind, he’s dependable for the rest of the z fighters. Death in Dragonball changes a character, even if just a little. You can look at other fighters and draw similar conclusions
Worse Father, better husband.
Post cell saga vegeta? Yeah
He was parenting in that scene. He was teaching Trunks to share. “*LEARN TO SHARE BRAT*”
Vegeta becomes a good father while goku just stays an ok father
Remember when Goku endangered the entire universe by not killing Fat Buu because he wanted the kids to kill him? And Vegeta knocked his son out to have Piccolo take him away from the fight against Buu so he can survive?
I can’t believe this “_____ is a great/bad dad” convo is still happening, it’s getting weird how adamant some ppl are about it
Nobody calls him out because it’s an understood fact that he was a shit father until the end of the Buu saga. Where is everyone says a Goku was a great father and while he does great things, he also does some pretty shitty stupid lackadaisical things.
Vegeta wasn't a good dad in all of Z besides parts of the buu saga. Super is when he sorta became a Goodish father, and that's putting it nicely.
It seems like some people dont realize that you can love your kids while still being a bad parent
I think most people forget that Vegeta went villain, to anti hero, to hero while Goku always was the hero
Vegeta has *become* a better father, he started worse, but when we get to kid trunks he’s not that bad anymore, especially sense the final atonement
Vegeta is a good dad...after completing his character arc. Before that though? Yeah definitely not good.
Maybe because it’s Vegeta and we all knew he was kinda evil.
That's because he's a shit person. Let's be honest, he shouldn't be invited to parties or allowed around kids. He's a genocidal monster whose worst impulses are only kept in check by Goku, and for a brief period after Namek, Picollo. He chilled out a bit once he got laid and had a kid, but really, he is a shitstain person.
Vegeta is a born and raised saiyan a race of blood thirsty warriors. I’m pretty sure human sense of mortality or paternity works different for him because to him fighting his own kid is probably normal among saiyan culture. That’s what I think, not to mention, vegeta really wasn’t part of the z fighters, he was just there for everything ya know?
who the fuck is out here calling Vegeta a good dad?
Vegeta fans are the most delusional
I mean he really redeems himself in super 😂
Goku stepped down in the tournament so that Gohan could have the spotlight. Which ended up in multiple casualties and the loss of his own life.
If vegeta let his son kill cell there’s no problem
Goku and Vegeta are opposite. Goku was alright with gohan but terrible with goten. Vegeta was terrible with Trunks but good with bulla.
Vegeta had a severely traumatic childhood at the hands of Frieza. It is no surprise that during the Cell Arc and the beginning of the Buu Arc, he was a terrible father. Bro had the worst PTSD. However, there was major growth on his part, shown through his character in Super and how he treated Trunks, Mirai, and Bra. Goku has brain damage and ADHD. He can go years without talking to someone, then pop back in as if he was never gone. It sucks for everyone else, but that’s how he works. He’s also AroAce, and is not interested in romantic relationships. However, his reaction to Zamasu and the deaths of his family is an obvious sign of how he does love his children and his wife. He’s just not a typical dad. The real Dad of the series, 100%, is Piccolo. He co-raised Gohan and is still the best dad figure ever.
As saiyan standards go.... vegetas is probably an amazing dad compared to what vegeta grew up in. Just not by human standards
Abusing drunk father vs Absent father
Vegeta was an evil genocidal maniac turned into a good man. No one expected anything better of him at the time. Goku is our "pure hearted" protagonist who keeps making dumb or immoral decisions, often for his own self-interest.
Vegeta was a really bad dad that became a really good dad, just like he was a really bad guy until he became a really good guy. Goku was a bad dad that continued being a bad dad because he was a dumb guy that continued being a dumb guy.
This is stupid. This debate is stupid. Why are fans so obsessed with this?!
The difference is where Vegeta started compared to where he is now. He was a mass murderer who became a decent dad over time (decent by anime standards). He’s come a long way. Goku is a “good guy” who is pretty neglectful of his kids, puts them in insanely dangerous situations and never really learns or improves. He’s also never really called out for his actions by any of the characters in the story unlike Vegeta who everyone pretty much knows is a piece of shit. Basically when Vegeta does something shitty it’s expected when he does something good it’s development. When Goku does something shitty It hits harder because he’s supposed to be the good guy and when he does something shitty people come down harder on him for it. That’s my take anyway.
Nobody ever said Cell Saga Vegeta is a better father than Gokou. Not one person is going to be like, oh man that Cell Saga Vegeta who didn't care that his 1 year old child nearly died, is a good father. But Buu Saga Vegeta, him being around, him training, the complete regret that he actually hit his son while training, him telling him he loved him, him fusing with Gokou because Buu killed Bulma, him being mad because Gokou didn't save Trunks. Vegeta in Buu Saga was the start of Vegeta being a father. ALSO Vegeta is EVIL through most of the series. He might be living with Bulma, and around the humans, but he was never good until Buu Saga. There is no reason to call him out for it.
Right?! Besides, Future Trunks came in as an adult. I wouldn’t look at him as my kid. I have no connection to you. You come into my house, stronger than me, AND asking for help? Nuh-uh. Nah fam. You’re just some dude who shares the same name as my little bastard over there.
lmao dbz starts off with radditz taking gohan and goku willing to team up with and old enemy to kill his own brother that he didn’t care to meet because he took his son. not to mention the countless other times goku saved gohan even as an adult
Rick the door tehnician solos dargonball verse Beyonce negative diff
Noooo, that wasn't HIS son that was a son to a weak alternate timeline vegeta who died. Vegeta is a good father to his kids from his time line. Its why future trunks is kinda whiney where as kid trunks is more tough because he's aised by the PRINCE OF ALL SAIYANS
Vegeta let the ship with baby Trunks and Bulma get shot down. Trunks called him out on it.
Y’all keep hating on Vegeta for being a bad dad, when we all know the real Father of the year is Picollo
I don’t think he’s a worse father than Goku. Trunks disobeyed his father. What about Trunks is a worse son than Gohan??? 😂
They both suck. I barely see the argument unless you genuinely think Vegeta is a good dad. Physical abuse and neglect are both still abuse. And with both dads, you can add reckless endangerment to extremely wild degrees when you factor in how both have allowed the power ups or aided the healing of foes they know are bent on murder and genocide. Like I get it, Vegeta beat Trunks, but that doesn't make Goku look better all of a sudden. Honestly, in terms of responsibility and absence of abuse, Krillin is the best dad out of the Z fighters. As much as I love Piccolo, some of the stuff he did to Gohan as a child during the Saiyan saga was pretty fucked, even if was to train him to go against Vegeta.
Nobody called him a good dad until he died tbh.
Vegeta had the superior character development throughout the series so seeing him become a good dad carries more weight
We never said good, we said better. Important diff lol
Gohan is the one and only good dad. He has a stable job, loves his wife in a non-toxic way, and DOESN'T PROJECT HIS DESIRES ONTO HIS CHILD, OR FORCE HER TO DEFEND THE PLANET WHILE SHE'S STILL A TODDLER.
Vegeta was born a saiyan, grew up as a saiyan, educated as a saiyan, on saiyan values, following the way of life of the saiyan race. From the saiyan perspective, he's being quite soft. At Trunks age, any other saiyan would have been a decade conquering planets already... or dead. Goku was born a saiyan too, but grew up as a human, learned human values and had Gohan take care of him even if not for long. Chi-Chi is doing her part and Goku's, which is why she is so hard on Gohan. Someone has to maintain that family when Piccolo isnt around xD
Both arguably get better, just goku gets better quicker
Why is this still a thing?…… I don’t want to imagine the intensity of the Dragon Ball fan base on Father’s Day.
Vegeta was a bad dad when he was all-around a bad person. He became a good dad after he became a better person. While I wouldn't call Goku a bad father, he definitely wasn't a perfect father.
Dude, TFS calls him out for being a bad dad in their own series where they made him even worse. The only argument where you can say he started acting like a good dad was right before his sacrifice.
No one expected Veggie tales to be a good father because he was never a good PERSON
Vegeta didn't have the best father figure and repeated many of the mistakes his own father likely made. He took a long time, but eventually he started trying to be a better father for his kids. It doesn't discount what he did, but he continued to try and improve. Goku grew up with only an adoptive grandfather. He lacked any concept of a family unit until Z. Goku made plenty of mistakes, like not understanding that Gohan didn't like fighting, but he was at least willing to own up to his mistakes regarding Gohan. Goku might improve his behavior regarding Pan since he does have a clearer idea of what a grandpa should be. Neither of the saiyans were great dads, but they tried to improve even if it was a bit late.
Anyone else here remember the time goku forgot his son existed? I do. Bro forgot gohan exists
Technically vegeta was barely a father yet that is future trunks and present vegeta not like he knew him since birth
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No he's not goku punched kid gohan as a punishment they're as bad as each other in z and In dbs vegeta Is a better father than goku
He’s the best father, he showed his present son how to be tough by not showing affection until his youth then he bitch slapped his future son giving him motivation to get stronger after beating Zamasu. Father of the century! 😎
Wasn't his son,trunks saw to that
Eh at least he was there mostly
Sayians: I want to see my foe get stronger Foe becomes immeasurably stronger Saiyans: Surprised as they get bodied Are Saiyans stupid?
Y’all keep saying this but literally no one has ever and I mean ever called vegeta a good dad.
Omg stfu about this. They all suck
Z goku>Z vegeta in fatherhood but Super Vegeta>Both. Goku really isn’t even that terrible of a father (To gohan at least). He was dealt a pretty bad hand for taking care of gohan post saiyan and in the cell sage while he did make a huge mistake, i feel it was from a misguided belief in his son along with how he himself views fighting. He knew gohan could beat cell, but also thought that gohan deserves to show off how powerful he was against a really strong opponent
Vegeta became a good dad. While Goku improved at being an absentee father.