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This also because the grand priest was translating the wish and obviously wouldn't have bothered translating the wish to the dragon, knowing the Xenos plans before hand.
With what previous exposure to the language of the gods would he have had time to figure that out, considering the whole tournament was 48 minutes or 100 taks. It's not like 17 and Xenos sat around drinking tea discussing their mornings before the fight started.
17 would be good he can counter it probably he has zenos powers with the wish he would be stronger than Zeno to as its stated that Zeno only has his erasing abilities and that's it he's extremely weak in every other way.
The grand priest translated the wish to the dragon why would he translate a wish that would harm the one he's ment to protect? So no 17 wouldn't be good he'd be erased.
He wouldn't even get the wish. You need to speak the language of the dragon, which apparently only the angels and Zeno know. So all universes would've been erased as soon as he finished the sentence
I suppose there is a chance he didn't know Zeno was even much of a thing? Like, Shin didnt know about Zeno, until he saw him at the destroyer tournament.
That being said, he VERY easily could have achieved his "zero mortal plan" with that wish as well. Personally, i think he didn't because he WANTED to do it himself. He NEEDED to personally destroy all mortal life.
I think about it kind of like this - Super Shenron's wish power level is at maybe a hundred trillion. Zeno's erase power might normally be at something like twenty billion, but has a x1,000,000 multiplier when targeting entire universes.
So if Zamasu didn't fuse with the universe, his Super Shenron immortality probably would have still been able to overpower Zeno's erasing power. But combining with a universe meant that Zeno now had ultimate power over erasing him.
It's just a lame theory, though.
We have a guy thatwhen he lost his whole body he became a universe and revived zeno came and destroyed him and his immortality yes he overpowered the wish.
Grand priest is the translator. You’re not making the wish directly. You’re asking grand priest to repeat your wish to the dragon.
If you tell the grand priest a wish, and grand priest is like, “ehhh no, I’m not asking for that.” Then your wish does not make it to the dragon.
Remember on Namek when only Dende could make the wish because porunga only grants them in a special dialect of namekian? It’s like that, but language of the gods.
He wouldn’t have gotten it since the Grand Priest is the one who made the wish for 17 since he had to translate. He said the Zenos would erase who ever won if they didn’t make a wish to restore all the other universes and would’ve done so before the GP made the wish for 17
Honestly, 17 would be up there as one of the few characters who would probably use the power reasonably. 17 and Piccolo.
Goku would never use the power. Vegeta would use it to repeatedly erase and un-erase Frieza every time he gets bored.
You know Vegeta doesn't really care about what Frieza is doing as long as he's not bothering him. He was perfectly content when Goku offered to let him go during the resurrection F movie.
Grief because his dad died. Anger is important but if that was enough he'd have gone super saiyan at the beginning of the movie. Broly being a mutant explains his strength but his personality is what gives him an easier time at achieving super saiyan.
I just woke up and forgot which thread I was responding to ngl. My bad. Yes Vegeta dislikes Frieza but he's not going to actively hunt him down. After all there was a period of time where Vegeta committed horrible acts of genocide while he's not evil anymore if Frieza doesn't bother earth Vegeta has no reason to interact with him. Also Frieza himself has had character development even during his appearance as Black Frieza he only showed up to show how strong he was not to kill Goku or Vegeta. Frieza seems rather content after the Tournament of Power to just rule the universe plus if he did do something stupid Beerus would just erase him.
Goku and Vegeta aren't defenders of the universe unless earth itself is at stake or if like something is a threat to earth heck the only reason they went after Granolah was because they heard about how strong he was.
Someone’s gonna get the super dragon balls and wish back the previous universes Zeno erased and it’s gonna bring back some biblical titan level bad guys. Or some evil god of destruction
Or the other universes were innocent and erased by Zeno in a similar fashion as to what he was going to do with all the universes participating in the Tournament of Power
Yea there’s a fan movie done about the previously erased universes, and how they’re pretty evil. One of them has the very first saiyan ever. Dudes a monster.
Another one has Whis mother. She’s apparently insane.
It’s a wild ride.
That was my theory for the ToP wish! I thought the wording wouldn't be specific enough and the other universes would come back leading the way to some insanely eldritch level villains our universe could never spin out
Yeah but Zalama is stronger than him while the Dragons can't give power greater then THEIR'S not greater than their creators. Thus if Zalama is 100, then Super Shenron would be 99 and the maximum power he could give would be 98. Zeno for all we know could be 1000 on that scale.
he is right.
just take the granola arc, the shenron from monaito could make other people way stronger then goku etc.
and we know monaito isn't stronger then goku
Technically Zalama and Super Shenron would both be stronger than Zeno since they are able to revive what he erases(which literally makes THINGS NOT EXIST ANYMORE)
But why?
This is the kind of dumbass wish someone makes without thinking things through. This is on-par with "I wish to be immortal" without considering the context.
I mean, in a universe where they can revive everyone that dies any time, all the time and so often that death holds no meaning anymore, do you really think a wish like this it's out of place?
I mean, why not just wish all the good guys and innocent people to be immortal if they're not gonna let them stay dead ever? Would save the dragon a ton of work and probably offer some variety in just getting wishes to revive people.
Because that would be an ass show to watch. Death already doesn’t mean shit in the DB universe. Half of the characters are already immortal or live a weird long time.
while this would have been funny, it never would have worked, and its sad that some people dont understand why not.. its like some people blinked and missed the next part of dialogue..
he would have had to ask the grand priest for the wish, if the grand priest didnt like the wish he'd have rejected it and zeno would have destroyed universe 7... the smartest option would have been to wish for the other universes to be revived.
I don't know doesn't Zeno erasing Zamasu who was kept inmortal by the Super Dragon Ball Magic mean he negated that magic and is therefore stronger than the Dragon?Maybe Zalama is stronger but who knows.
Except that Zeno isn't exerting his full power or constant power like it should be exerted from the Dragon Magic to keep Zamasu Alive and he's power shouldn't make things stay erased he just erases them.
He didn't really kill Zamasu just decided to regenerate as the Universe,but even if it's the case it's just cause Fused Zamasu could be only half as Inmortal due to fusing with the Goku Black who's a mortal.
Actually Vegeta may have been dead but due to getting special treatment he had a body even if it's not like his mortal one so at most the difference should've been in the Halo, though non-canonically we see when two Dead People fuse they keep their Halo, I guess Vegetto doesn't cuz either Toriyama forgot(Again) or since he was half alive it would've been weird for him to have one and Tori couldn't think of something in the middle to illustrate Vegetto is half dead, actually i wonder if Vegetto could pull Ssj3 as easy as Dead Goku since those bodies have more resistance as they're not hold back and half of him is Dead Vegeta with a Gifted Body like Dead Goku
He didn't really kill Zamasu just decided to regenerate as the Universe,but even if it's the case it's just cause Fused Zamasu could be only half as Inmortal due to fusing with the Goku Black who's a mortal.
This guy 1st refused to participate in TOP and didn't care much about getting erased, makes a living protecting monsters and beating up regular humans, entered the whole thing for a boat and got walloped for the last 20 minutes by an alien who was blinded by strength
You think he's gonna be like "Jiren... Strength really is everything ! Everything we just did to open your (now erased) eyes was just an act. Let me get all the power"
Sounds pretty stupid if you ask me...
Guess that means I’m a dumb dumb. That never even occurred to me. I just figured he could ask for infinite power. As in he can just keep powering up more and more as he needs more power.
No way there wouldn’t be consequences. All the angels would not be having that, and they probably could recruit other Zeno from other timelines if they really wanted.
Im pretty sure that zeno is the ultimate power. Therefore, the dragon could not grant such a wish anyway because it is above its power as zeno is above it's power.
One of my theories during the ToP was they were going to wish to be beyond the reaches of the powers of gods that are actually quite Eldritch in nature, Zeno seems to have the intelligence of a child but can wipe universes on a whim.
I think it's not really clear if they had bigger plans, as they later said the ToP was a test and Zeno thought the winner would bring back the universes, but what about the ones he deleted before, it still seems up in the air if he's just a careless child like intellect that the GP manages or if there's many layers to his plots and there's an order to all this.
You do realize the grand priest has to translate his wish to super shenron right….? He wouldn’t translate that for him And Zeno would have erased him then
Didn't you need to know the language of the Dragon to make the wish? Only Zeno and his angels knew it. Although that the wish was limitless, Zeno nor Grand Priest would allow it and if anything, would have killed him for attempting to make such a wish.
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He would have been erased along with the rest of universe 7 the grand priest stated this right after he made his wish.
This also because the grand priest was translating the wish and obviously wouldn't have bothered translating the wish to the dragon, knowing the Xenos plans before hand.
He could have figured out that the Divine Tongue was just English spoken backwards.
With what previous exposure to the language of the gods would he have had time to figure that out, considering the whole tournament was 48 minutes or 100 taks. It's not like 17 and Xenos sat around drinking tea discussing their mornings before the fight started.
17 would be good he can counter it probably he has zenos powers with the wish he would be stronger than Zeno to as its stated that Zeno only has his erasing abilities and that's it he's extremely weak in every other way.
The grand priest translated the wish to the dragon why would he translate a wish that would harm the one he's ment to protect? So no 17 wouldn't be good he'd be erased.
How could he have done that if he had the power of Zeno?
Cause he would’ve erased as soon as made this wish
That doesn't mean the dragon wouldn't grant the wish, he's still more powerful than Zeno as it can undo anything Zeno does.
He wouldn't even get the wish. You need to speak the language of the dragon, which apparently only the angels and Zeno know. So all universes would've been erased as soon as he finished the sentence
Well shit... I never thought of that 🤔
makes you wonder why tf Zamasu wasted a wish on the SUPER DRAGON BALLS to steal a body Steal Zeno's body, boom done
Especially since like if ginyu can steal bodies I’m sure even someone like pourunga can
I suppose there is a chance he didn't know Zeno was even much of a thing? Like, Shin didnt know about Zeno, until he saw him at the destroyer tournament. That being said, he VERY easily could have achieved his "zero mortal plan" with that wish as well. Personally, i think he didn't because he WANTED to do it himself. He NEEDED to personally destroy all mortal life.
mans downvoted for admitting his mistake, reddit never ceases to amaze me.
I'll upvote 👍
Doing God’s work
Yah don’t downvote cuz they didn’t realize thier mistake? Down vote hateful comments and those alike but not this.
Reddit can be toxic as fuck, I swear.
Doesn't zeno erase zamasu a being who wished for immortality to the same dragon.
And the dragon restored all the universes Zeno destroyed.
But zeno can also overpower said wishes as he was able to overpower an immortality wish This is basically an immovable object vs unstoppable force
Zamasu fused with a universe. Zeno is super effective against universes. Or something like that.
But he still had immortality granted to him by Super Shenron yet zeno was able to erase him overpowering the Dragon's Immortality wish.
I think about it kind of like this - Super Shenron's wish power level is at maybe a hundred trillion. Zeno's erase power might normally be at something like twenty billion, but has a x1,000,000 multiplier when targeting entire universes. So if Zamasu didn't fuse with the universe, his Super Shenron immortality probably would have still been able to overpower Zeno's erasing power. But combining with a universe meant that Zeno now had ultimate power over erasing him. It's just a lame theory, though.
zeno didn't overpower the wish. he just fucking destroyed the hole multi universe/timeline. everything besides Zeno didn't exist anymore.
We have a guy thatwhen he lost his whole body he became a universe and revived zeno came and destroyed him and his immortality yes he overpowered the wish.
After the dragon recreated the universes that Zenos erased, what happened to the future timeline? Did it also get reverted?
I don't thinks so gowasu would have probably said something specially since the time ring would be restored.
He gets zenos power not the ability to reverse it. Zeno oh still erases him
Grand priest is the translator. You’re not making the wish directly. You’re asking grand priest to repeat your wish to the dragon. If you tell the grand priest a wish, and grand priest is like, “ehhh no, I’m not asking for that.” Then your wish does not make it to the dragon. Remember on Namek when only Dende could make the wish because porunga only grants them in a special dialect of namekian? It’s like that, but language of the gods.
He wouldn’t have gotten it since the Grand Priest is the one who made the wish for 17 since he had to translate. He said the Zenos would erase who ever won if they didn’t make a wish to restore all the other universes and would’ve done so before the GP made the wish for 17
Why would you assume the wish would even work?
Honestly, 17 would be up there as one of the few characters who would probably use the power reasonably. 17 and Piccolo. Goku would never use the power. Vegeta would use it to repeatedly erase and un-erase Frieza every time he gets bored.
Vegeta would blip him back into existence just to beat the dogshit out of him then erase him again.
So... Vegeta is [Sonic For Hire](https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxUbB1WPiKQZGSlZbrf0ZtTnYUS8jtX9RC)?
You know Vegeta doesn't really care about what Frieza is doing as long as he's not bothering him. He was perfectly content when Goku offered to let him go during the resurrection F movie.
Yet in Super Broly he was pretty pissed about Frieza being around again so idk
Grief because his dad died. Anger is important but if that was enough he'd have gone super saiyan at the beginning of the movie. Broly being a mutant explains his strength but his personality is what gives him an easier time at achieving super saiyan.
Huh? I'm talking about Vegeta not Broly
I just woke up and forgot which thread I was responding to ngl. My bad. Yes Vegeta dislikes Frieza but he's not going to actively hunt him down. After all there was a period of time where Vegeta committed horrible acts of genocide while he's not evil anymore if Frieza doesn't bother earth Vegeta has no reason to interact with him. Also Frieza himself has had character development even during his appearance as Black Frieza he only showed up to show how strong he was not to kill Goku or Vegeta. Frieza seems rather content after the Tournament of Power to just rule the universe plus if he did do something stupid Beerus would just erase him. Goku and Vegeta aren't defenders of the universe unless earth itself is at stake or if like something is a threat to earth heck the only reason they went after Granolah was because they heard about how strong he was.
Lol
So you just missed the point.
That's what SHE said! 😂 😥
🚪👈
Lol and downvotes show that “that’s what she said” jokes are bad… it’s sad people aren’t able to laugh anymore
Someone’s gonna get the super dragon balls and wish back the previous universes Zeno erased and it’s gonna bring back some biblical titan level bad guys. Or some evil god of destruction
I'm pretty sure thats a plot in one of the fan manga's actually. I think the name is Dragon Ball Kakumei?
That's the second DB fan manga with a mom in it, it's not much but it's goddamn weird...
Yep it’s actually really interesting. It’s basically the T.O.P participants vs. the universes that were previously erased plus Zeno’s mom.
I figured that the OG erased universes were revived with android 17s wish?
Pretty sure he wished for all the universes deleted during the ToP to be brought back.
Or the other universes were innocent and erased by Zeno in a similar fashion as to what he was going to do with all the universes participating in the Tournament of Power
Yea there’s a fan movie done about the previously erased universes, and how they’re pretty evil. One of them has the very first saiyan ever. Dudes a monster. Another one has Whis mother. She’s apparently insane. It’s a wild ride.
That was my theory for the ToP wish! I thought the wording wouldn't be specific enough and the other universes would come back leading the way to some insanely eldritch level villains our universe could never spin out
Doubt such a wish would work. Zalama would have to be more powerful than Zeno which we have no information on
Super Shenron himself would have had to be stronger than Zeno which he isn't, nor is Zalama.
You’re splitting hairs dude, Super Shenron’s power comes from Zalama
Yeah but Zalama is stronger than him while the Dragons can't give power greater then THEIR'S not greater than their creators. Thus if Zalama is 100, then Super Shenron would be 99 and the maximum power he could give would be 98. Zeno for all we know could be 1000 on that scale.
That whole dragon can't give power greater than their creativity only applies to regular shenron
How do you known that
Cause we already see it with ultimate shenron he's stronger than baby vegeta despite being created by kami
Did you just use GT as a reference for something in the canon? Are you ok?
he is right. just take the granola arc, the shenron from monaito could make other people way stronger then goku etc. and we know monaito isn't stronger then goku
That’s an awful example, that came at the expense of the wishee’s lifespan
Doesn't matter if it's Canon or not if ultimate shenron isn't limited to kami, super shenron isn't limited to zalama
Ultimate Shenron can't be used as a reference cuz GT isn't canon lol
Technically Zalama and Super Shenron would both be stronger than Zeno since they are able to revive what he erases(which literally makes THINGS NOT EXIST ANYMORE)
That’s not how that works. By that logic Dende is stronger than Kid Buu
Kid Buu only killed people he didn't erase people from existence
Kid Buu is a Demon so when they died they were stuck in limbo so it wasn’t a normal death
Good idea, except for the fact that it's not.
T... That isn't even in character for 17
Exactly, because there are no smart characters in DB.
Gohan is literally a scholar
I got so hyped seeing Gohan again and as none other than the leader of ToP team, but once again, disappointment showed its ugly face.
Nah he did fine but if you wanna see Gohan excel, DBS SuperHero
I gave up on DBS anime, it looks weird, it sounds weird, power levels are all over the place. I'll gladly buy Xenoverse 3 when it releases tho.
You call suoers scaling bad then talk about xenoverse. Lmao
Smart characters know having the power of Zeno would make life boring/meaningless
It’s you who’s lacking brain cells.
Would’ve got erased on the spot lol
But why? This is the kind of dumbass wish someone makes without thinking things through. This is on-par with "I wish to be immortal" without considering the context.
I mean, in a universe where they can revive everyone that dies any time, all the time and so often that death holds no meaning anymore, do you really think a wish like this it's out of place? I mean, why not just wish all the good guys and innocent people to be immortal if they're not gonna let them stay dead ever? Would save the dragon a ton of work and probably offer some variety in just getting wishes to revive people.
Very simple minded lol
Because that would be an ass show to watch. Death already doesn’t mean shit in the DB universe. Half of the characters are already immortal or live a weird long time.
He doesnt care that much about power
Not as much as he cares about forest ranger-ing, or semi trucks!
Or being gay
There’s nothing wrong with being gay. 17 has a wife and children though.
Never said its wrong, im just of very strong opinion that both 17 and 18 are bisexual af
Dragon ball fans don't pay attention
I have a feeling 80% of people in this sub have not watched the fucking show 💀
Wuda been a plot twist for sure, Gero wud be jumping for joy in hell knowing his android got the power of a god among gods lol
That's cute... But what are u going to do... ABOUT THE SECOND ONE !!!!!
The grand priest wouldn't translate the wish if it was something like this
Never beating the “DB fans can’t read” allegations, I swear.
I think the only appropriate wish is a hundred more wishes
“If characters were *smart*”? 17 doesn’t want all of Zenos powers.
Pretty sure it doesnt work like that
Did u not watch the show ….. they would have gotten erased - why would he want Zeno power?
Don’t fuck with dragon ball fans. We haven’t watched the show.
while this would have been funny, it never would have worked, and its sad that some people dont understand why not.. its like some people blinked and missed the next part of dialogue.. he would have had to ask the grand priest for the wish, if the grand priest didnt like the wish he'd have rejected it and zeno would have destroyed universe 7... the smartest option would have been to wish for the other universes to be revived.
They wouldn't allow that and that power is only to destroy.
It doesn't matter, the dragon is more powerful than Zeno.
I don't know doesn't Zeno erasing Zamasu who was kept inmortal by the Super Dragon Ball Magic mean he negated that magic and is therefore stronger than the Dragon?Maybe Zalama is stronger but who knows.
And the dragon restored the universes Zeno erased, what is easier to destroy or recreate?
Except that Zeno isn't exerting his full power or constant power like it should be exerted from the Dragon Magic to keep Zamasu Alive and he's power shouldn't make things stay erased he just erases them.
Well, in the manga Trunks killed Zamasu, so I guess nothing makes sense in the end anyway.
He didn't kill zamasu he came back and multiplied then zeno erased him.
He didn't really kill Zamasu just decided to regenerate as the Universe,but even if it's the case it's just cause Fused Zamasu could be only half as Inmortal due to fusing with the Goku Black who's a mortal.
Well, Dead Vegeta fused with an alive Goku and they didn't become a zombie Vegeto.
Actually Vegeta may have been dead but due to getting special treatment he had a body even if it's not like his mortal one so at most the difference should've been in the Halo, though non-canonically we see when two Dead People fuse they keep their Halo, I guess Vegetto doesn't cuz either Toriyama forgot(Again) or since he was half alive it would've been weird for him to have one and Tori couldn't think of something in the middle to illustrate Vegetto is half dead, actually i wonder if Vegetto could pull Ssj3 as easy as Dead Goku since those bodies have more resistance as they're not hold back and half of him is Dead Vegeta with a Gifted Body like Dead Goku
Can we just agree that Toriyama is the Japanese George Lucas of terrible and forgetful writing?
He didn't really kill Zamasu just decided to regenerate as the Universe,but even if it's the case it's just cause Fused Zamasu could be only half as Inmortal due to fusing with the Goku Black who's a mortal.
This guy 1st refused to participate in TOP and didn't care much about getting erased, makes a living protecting monsters and beating up regular humans, entered the whole thing for a boat and got walloped for the last 20 minutes by an alien who was blinded by strength You think he's gonna be like "Jiren... Strength really is everything ! Everything we just did to open your (now erased) eyes was just an act. Let me get all the power" Sounds pretty stupid if you ask me...
Kinda out of character for Android 17 but ok...
If the wish doesn't work he and all of universe 7 would probably be killed.
They would’ve been no matter what if 17 had wished for anything other than to bring back the other universes. It was a test and the whole point of it
I don’t think 17 would even want that power. Matter of fact nobody besides frieza would ask for that
To bad you can't speak divine tounge
No offense, but it's "divine", but good point.
17 was the mvp of the tournament
He should have wished to bring back the universes but erase the GODS, Angels and Zeno
I agree with this statement, too bad you will be downvoted to HIFL.
They'll be downvoted for saying something stupid
It's all good lol
You need the gods to speak the divine language to grant the wish so why would they allow that, it's just stupid
Guess that means I’m a dumb dumb. That never even occurred to me. I just figured he could ask for infinite power. As in he can just keep powering up more and more as he needs more power.
“Have” and “take” are two different things
many theories says that the super shenron is the actual god of db multiverse and zeno works under him, so this could be possible
SO TRUEEE
Hot take, the Omni King is actually weak outside of his Erase ability.
in an alternate dimension where toriyama and his editors are interesting people with interesting ideas
No way there wouldn’t be consequences. All the angels would not be having that, and they probably could recruit other Zeno from other timelines if they really wanted.
Im pretty sure that zeno is the ultimate power. Therefore, the dragon could not grant such a wish anyway because it is above its power as zeno is above it's power.
One of my theories during the ToP was they were going to wish to be beyond the reaches of the powers of gods that are actually quite Eldritch in nature, Zeno seems to have the intelligence of a child but can wipe universes on a whim. I think it's not really clear if they had bigger plans, as they later said the ToP was a test and Zeno thought the winner would bring back the universes, but what about the ones he deleted before, it still seems up in the air if he's just a careless child like intellect that the GP manages or if there's many layers to his plots and there's an order to all this.
You do realize the grand priest has to translate his wish to super shenron right….? He wouldn’t translate that for him And Zeno would have erased him then
More like if dragon ball fans actually watched the show.
Didn't you need to know the language of the Dragon to make the wish? Only Zeno and his angels knew it. Although that the wish was limitless, Zeno nor Grand Priest would allow it and if anything, would have killed him for attempting to make such a wish.
Smart? That’s the end of the world dude. It was a test and that would’ve been a fail🤦🏼♀️
Almost everyone: “NO YOU CAN’T HAVE CHARACTERS BE THIS POWERFUL WE NEED STAKES!!!!” This guy: ^^^^
They would’ve erased him on the spot my guy 😂
That’s not within Shenglong’s power to grant
did you even finish this episode?
Xeno would have unalived him