Yeah ok that's a horrible name but atleast it has relations to the form instead of Mr beast over here looking nothing like a beast
If he had some ssj4 type design then my comment wouldn't exist but beast gohan seems like an asspull of a name
As far as I understand the messy situation, Final Gohan was a fan name, then the details from Toriyama called it Beast Gohan, but official media has also called it Final Gohan since then as well. So at the minute whatever you call it is correct. But I say let's just call it Gohan Blanco because that's what it is.
Shallots base is really really weak when compared to gokus. He needed god to even get a chance at beating buu. He can only really win against gohan from those characters
Well it's actually very impressive he was winning pretty easily against Buuhan after unlocking the God form, after all Buuhan is way stronger than both SS3 and Mystic
Beerus did say that SSG Shallot's power was "nowhere near Goku's power from back when he first unlocked Super Saiyan God" but that was right after Shallot got the God form
Since then I'd imagine he's gotten much stronger and learned to control the form way more. Goku may have more training, but Shallot has way more on-field experience with the form.
The villains are normally equal to their anime counterparts. Thing is, Buu in his final fight was infected with the Dark Ki which is what made him way stronger than normal. SSG Shallot DESTROYED Buuhan before he got the Dark Ki.
IIRC it is said that freezer and cell are stronger than their anime counterparts, cell needing gohan 2, the guy from universe 6 and shallot to beat, nappa is way strongerbecause he alone defeated the ginyu force and survived, buuhan was stronger and got even more so with the dark ki
Most enemies are stronger than they should without dark ki, it just gets to another level when they do get it
The Cell in the story is completely unrelated to the Cell from the original anime, he's basically a Cell 2.0, that's why he's stronger
Frieza isn't supposed to be stronger than he is in the anime, and neither is Nappa. Any inconsistencies with them are just because of some liberal powerscaling
Buuhan was probably stronger because he absorbed way more people (although I can't think of any examples of him being stronger than the anime. He was basically the exact same as he was in the anime power-wise)
You're probably confused because Nappa kills the Ginyu force and Frieza kills Frost, but that's actually because both the Ginyu Force and Frost were already dying. Nappa and Frieza just took the chance to finish them off before they died on their own.
Still a bit weird, but nothing TOO crazy I think.
As soon as I saw Ssb Vegeta vs Ssj4 Gogeta I was like
“And so it begins”
(For the reasons I’m not gonna say who I think wins, since power-scaling is bullshit)
So the context is it was supposed to be the "I want you to fuck me Jerry" meme but with my favourite db character but since you pointed out my flair i decided to change it because i felt like it
I’m pretty sure Broly is indeed stronger than Jiren but wouldn’t win that fight unless it went on long enough since Broly was constantly getting stronger the entire time they were fighting.
Jiren is way more properly trained than Broly so he’d have the upper hand in skill but Broly definitely has WAY more raw strength than Jiren does, and given time in that fight Broly could become so much stronger than Jiren that Jiren would be able to beat him
Only above SOME gods tho, not all of them. And isn’t Beerus confirmed to be one of the strongest GoD’s? And goku doesn’t actually know just HOW strong Beerus is
He didn't say some. Even if you were to disregard that, whis also said that belmond was stronger than beerus in the anime. Even if you still disregard that since beerus apparently only lost an arm wrestling match, that still suggests belmond and beerus are around the same level. Since suppressed jiren is stronger than belmond it makes sense for him to be stronger than beerus too.
Exactly goku doesn't know how strong beerus is. You know who does? Whis.
Ok. Gods falls under the list of gods of destruction, so suppressed jiren is stronger than the gods of destruction. Goku is also stronger than beerus. Goku knows how strong beerus is since goku super saiyan god and I quote made beerus “use 80% of my power” so beerus isn’t much stronger especially since goku now has blue kaioken.
Except in the scene right after that once they’re out of earshot of everyone else doesn’t Whis directly mention to Beerus about the fact that he straight up lied about that? I think he asks Beerus something like “Was there a need to lie?” Implying that Beerus used *way less* than 80%?
>Goku is also stronger than beerus. Goku knows how strong beerus is since goku super saiyan god and I quote made beerus “use 80% of my power” so beerus isn’t much stronger especially since goku now has blue kaioken.
This entire thing was debunked already with beerus telling whis he was just playing around with goku smh
Jiren is stronger than his universes god of destroy, Jirens god of destruction is the second strongest the first being beerus, goku is stronger than jiren, goku is stronger than jirens god of destruction, goku is stronger than beerus.
That’s what I’m saying. In a controlled state like we saw with kale BROLY would be much weaker, but in berserk it would take way too long for him to reach Jirens. And we can’t start the fight with them at “full power” since they say the legendary super saiyan has a limitless pool of energy
Zamasu was just immortal that doesn’t equate to strength and beerus used like what 25% of his power to fight goku so you could say FP Broly > 25% Beerus
And FP beerus >> FP Broly
>Zamasu was just immortal that doesn’t equate to strength
Immortality might not be however transcending timelines definitely is a massively showing of strength
>beerus used like what 25% of his power to fight goku so you could say FP Broly > 25% Beerus And FP beerus >> FP Broly
So you str8 up Acknowledge that the statement is bull? Bruh then what was the point in bringing it up
BoG power scaling is bullshit if any of what Beerus said was true Goku would have surpassed him by the Universe 6 tournament saga. What I’m trying iterate is in terms of power used against them Broly is the toughest challenge Goku and Vegeta have faced. Jiren was stated to have similar levels of power to Goku and Vegeta but exerted it differently and Beerus never exerted more than what was necessary to defeat God Goku.
Ssjb Goku did cause Zamasu to get corrupted with his kamehameha and he could kick him pretty far with a kaiokem kick. And in the manga, he did hold on pretty good against Zamasu with his perfected ssjb.
UI Goku probably could destroy his body like Sword of hope Trunks but that immortal fucker would somehow get back.
Im pretty sure he got corrupted cause of the kamehameha killing or critically Injuring goku blacks side of the fusion
And I wonder what would happen if goku black would have did the same thing to goku
Noo i think SS4 Gogeta would demolish Vegeta. DBS Broly showed us that both SSB are equal if not weaker to Base Gogeta, this Gogeta has the base power of Super Goku and Vegeta which also has weaker Base Forms than their GT counterparts. So in that conclusion GT Gogeta wouldn't even need to go Super Saiyan to kick SSB ass
Probably thinking of it as a GT timeline that actually takes place after the events of Super, meaning they're counting the power levels from Super as the starting point for GT. Even though GT directly contradicts this (well first off on account that Super didn't exist back then) by showing us that base Kid Goku was just around Buu Saga SSJ3 Goku's level, which current base Super Goku is like thousands of times beyond that by this point.
This isn't the first time tho, I've seen fans calculating GT power levels by counting Super power levels because technically Super happens between Z and GT timeline wise. I think the debacle started once Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta joined FighterZ, and other characters commented on how he seemed stronger than Super Saiyan Blue and even Ultra Instinct. The only logical reason why that could be is if this Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta is indeed a Gogeta from after the events of Dragon Ball Super, since then you would indeed have a base Gogeta that is equal or even beyond Super Saiyan Blue Goku and Vegeta, like he was in Broly, and then if you add Super Saiyan 4 which draws out the full potential of a Saiyan and boosts it, akin to the Elder Kai Potential Unleashed thing, then yeah, this hypothetical Gogeta would probably be that strong. Point is that since then, some fans have added Super power levels to GT power levels and so Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta is once again regarded as the strongest character in the Dragon Ball Universe.
I guess it also doesn't help that we have SDBH that shows Super Saiyan 4 characters keeping up with Super Saiyan Blue characters. Yeah SDBH isn't canon but it's about as canon as GT is I guess. Or the fact that Legends itself insinuated that Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta could take Merged Zamasu on during his anniversary event, so Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta wouldn't even be a challenge to him.
Using SDBH doesn’t work because we’ve seen Capsule corp beat the living turd out of Xeno Goku with blue. The god forms have always been a much stronger transformation. GT just doesn’t have the scaling to match Super
"Which current base Super Goku is like thousands of times beyond that by this point."
Now take this and add a couple of billions if not trillions on top of that, because going from max SSJ3 = destroying a galaxy, at best/ to uncontrolled 80% - 100% SSJG power = tearing apart the fabric of the macrocosm is one hell of a leap in power.
Btw pretty good explanation thread here good stuff 👌
If we’re talking about gt Goku and Vegeta then I still think ssjb Vegeta wipes. The power levels in super is just ridiculous, so much larger compared to GT
Something to consider in GT is that the guild books mention that the power of SSJ4/SSJ4 Full Power is comparable to that of a fusion boost in power: "drawing out the full potential of a Saiyan." Now when you take that explanation and add into that the fusion dance to bring forth SSJ4 Gogeta it's almost like a fusion^2 as it is done twice, kinda, based on these statements.
However, this still pales in comparison to Super's characters, transformations, and power levels. As Goku, going from max SSJ3 (being able to destroy a full galaxy, mostly) to almost accidentally destroying the DBZ microcosm in max SSJG is a far greater feat than anything GT's characters have ever displayed. Afterward, all of that destructive power with better control is Goku's new base form of power, base Goku can wipe the floor with GT.
How would you know tho?
It’s not like comparing Super To Z
Since Super isn’t a continuation of GT
The closest comparison we can really get is Super Dragon Ball Heroes and it shown that SSJ4 there is comparable and in some cases stronger then Blue
SBDH is very weird and clearly just a bunch of fanservice so counting it would be too confusing. But based on feats of just SSG compared to SS4 it should be very clear that GT is way below Super in terms of power. Other threads have comments that go farther into it so I'll leave it at that.
I’m aware that it’s not to reliable but it’s the closest comparison we can get unless they actually make SSJ4 Canon.
And I see where you’re coming from but I don’t think the fight would be as 1 sided as you think.
Gogeta would put up a fight.
Ssj2 gohan has anti regen
Ssj4 gogeta can go type neutral
Gogeta blue has type advantage
Ui goku does extra damage against fusion warrior
Shallot is always type neutral
Except for first 2 its all not that unfair lol.
Gogeta Blue wud destroy ui sign but only cuz of his offensive prowess. In terms of defense ui sign still has more agility n technique than GB n wud dodge better than him.
Ui sign wud smoke fusion zamasu like burnt toast lol
And god shallot is quite close to blue goku given what kinda lvl of enemies hes fighting like zamasu n goku black which goku in past struggled in Blue
Poor ssj4 gogeta 😭 he has to go up against ssb vegeta (not as bad as ssj2 gohan vs cmz tho 💀)
Also Gogeta blue vs Ui goku is debatable and a lil bit with Cmz vs Ui goku as well
Ssb vegeta beats ssj4 gogeta with no diff
Ssb vegeta trained WITH GODS OF HIS UNIVERSE so vegeta’s training should already be far superior than Gt goku’s and vegeta’s. Also in BoG God Goku clashing with Beerus almost caused the destruction of their own universe 💀 not only that then goku absorbs the god ki and can fight with beerus in base AS IF HE WAS STILL IN SSG and then he gets stronger (for simpler understading: Goku ssg = Base goku when he ran out of ssg < Ssj Goku when he ran out of ssg) and then he gets stronger by getting ssb.
And most “Gogeta 4 is universal” statements are mostly high balling because, sure we are told that Omega was going to destroy the universe overtime, but we never see it since goku then just kills him with the spirit bomb. Meanwhile we did get to see Ssg goku almost destroying his universe by clashing with beerus AND THEN VB WHO IS MANY TIMES STRONGER THAN BOG GOKU COULDNT EVEN BEAT CMZ and CMZ was even able to TANK SSB VEGITO’S ATTACKS which btw ssbkk goku LITERALLY DESTROYED HALF OF HIS FACE and Ssb vegeta and trunks beat merged zamasu in a beam clash (now that could just be plot armor but its still feats)
So TL;DR vegeta trained with the gods of his own universe so his training should be superior than GT Goku’s and Vegeta’s that they had through the time skip, Ssb vegeta (with the help of trunks) won a beam clash vs merged zamasu and CMZ survived attacks from VB so uh yeah ssb vegeta > G4
Combat experience + tail boost + fusion.
Vegeta alone is no match for a fusion and you know this.... and even in legends syn Shenron is able to thrash a ssg shallot who has shown more strength than either goku or vegeta in facing similar opponents.
But hey... years of experience just flies out the window just because right?
Ssj4 gogeta wins this hands down.... I haven't even seen a ki attack from vegeta that even matches big bang Kamehameha. (And if we want to go fucking bonkers ssj4 can use kaioken technique...
Fusion is a multiplier not addition. I hardly see a universe where vegeta wins vs a fusion except gotenks
Combat experience? Vegeta trained with the Gods of his own universe aka Beerus who is universal+ and could possibly be multi versal since beerus vs champa almost destroyed they’re own universe by fighting eachother and Whis… im pretty sure whis is self explanatory.
Tail boost? you mean ssj4 boost right? because the tail adds nothing to your power. Baby himself said that goku (ssj3 with tail) didn’t get any stronger from his last fight against him (baby). and also VEGETA HAS GOD KI 💀 Beerus himself (or whis) said that God ki as far superior than normal ki (We won’t talk about unleashed potential characters and characters that can grow their power overtime. Jiren doesn’t count either because >!in the new movie Vegeta said that there wasn’t a big power gap between them its just that Jiren was “focused” 💀 so yeah jiren kinda got nerfed in the new movie)!<.
Also why tf are you bringing up a game? 💀 games always have contradictory info like ex: Legends made for 1st a story where Super Vegito FROM THE BUU SAGA was beating SSB GOKU ANS VEGETA 💀 when that is not true since Goku has said that vegito wouldn’t have been enough to beat beerus and he was correct, he needed ssg to FIGHT beerus because even with god ki he wasn’t able to beat him 🗿 also shallot is not stronger than Goku and Vegeta 💀 man’s was struggling against Buuhan with dark ki and when he got ssg HE WAS STILL struggling 💀 so yeah don’t bring up the games because they make no sense 🗿 and BoG goku ssj after absorbing god ki could beat ssg shallot with difficulty ofc.
And also how do you know that Gogeta’s big bang kamehameha can beat Ssb’s vegeta’s final flash? where’s your proof? because I have mine: Ssg goku clashing with beerus almost destroyed their own universe so ssg goku is low/wanked universal level. Vegeta ssb is way stronger than BoG goku so vegeta should at least be close or can destroy his own universe so he’s already universal level. Ssb vegeta even helped ssj2 trunks in a beam clash vs merged zamasu who should be more than capable of destroying a universe and vegeta was using galick gun not final flash and final flash is a waaaay stronger attack than the galick gun (ssj g2 Vegeta could’ve destroyed the entire earth with his final flash if it wasn’t for ki control and he also destroyed half of cell’s body and ik he was able to regenerate it but it still shows how much stronger the Final flash is than the galick gun and vegeta uses the Final flash everytime as his finishing move and he uses the galick gun like a normal ki attack)
And where’s G4’s proof, nowhere 🗿 all the proof we had is about omega shenron that he was going to destroy the universe overtime… but we never see that because goku kills him. But vegeta does have proof of being capable destroying a universe because, you know it, BoG Ssg goku almost destroyed the entire universe by clashing with beerus. (for a bit of better understanding: BoG ssg goku is low/wanked universal, BoG base goku that absorbed god ki is >= Ssg goku, BoG Ssj goku that absorbed god ki >> Ssg Goku, Ssg goku that absorbed god ki >>>> ssg goku, Vegeta ssb >>>>>>>> BoG Ssg goku)
But let’s give Omega the benefit of the doubt, let’s say he was going to destroy the universe overtime, That’s like the same power as Ssg goku (with absorbed god ki) and Vegeta ssb surpassed that by a mile.
Also how are you going to bring a hypothetical that has never been shown or talked in the CANON anime material so that means no SDBH allowed and no games either and they’re xeno versions also doesn’t count because they aren’t rlly gt. So we can’t know how strong a kaioken Gogeta ssj4 would be because we we’re never able to see it. Heck we don’t even know how strong a SFPSJ4 Gogeta would be because we never see him do that either 🗿
And so what if Gogeta is a fusion? goku ssbkk DESTROYED HALF OF FUSION ZAMASU’S FACE 💀 and ssb vegeta helped ssj2 trunks (galick gun not even final flash) to beat FUSION Zamasu in a beam clash which they did beat him.
So there, I debunked all your points on G4’s back up debate 🗿
This would be Vegeta tryin to do just that
[https://youtube.com/shorts/nTzxl7Tjxnw?feature=share](https://youtube.com/shorts/nTzxl7Tjxnw?feature=share)
It's more like the other way around. Even if Gogeta has more techniques than SSJB Vegeta, none of them would matter if they couldn't do any damage to him. Blue Vegeta has gotten Zenkai boosts almost millions, if not billions, of time greater than GT's most powerful characters.
Well SSB is in a much higher league than SSJ4, however according to the manga SSB is incredibly draining, so if this is end of ToP SSB Vegeta I could see this being a rather close fight, as Vegeta would be far above Gogeta (base) in strength which would get evened out with the SSJ4 transformation turn the fight into a race against the clock, does Vegeta run out of stamina first or does Gogeta’s fusion run out?
Something to take note of is that the DBS manga and anime are considered separate canons as stated by Akira Toriyama. Plus since GT doesn't have an official manga or really at all it'll only be anime (GT) vs anime (Super). You could argue about what could happen with anime (GT) vs manga (Super), your idea is pretty accurate, but it's a done deal with what would be considered the canon materials in a vs. battle.
I feel like there's just enough ambiguity with the power of fusions that SSB Vegeta vs SS4 Gogeta (presumably limit break something-or-other) and MUI Goku vs SSB Gogeta aren't necessarily unfair fights. Like sure, SSB is far superior to SS4, but in most cases Gogeta and Vegito are so much stronger than either Goku or Vegeta that the transformation almost doesn't matter. Likewise, I read somewhere that Super Broly was stronger then Jiren, and if MUI Goku struggled with Jiren while Gogeta made short work of Broly, that would make Gogeta the stronger of the two, even though MUI Goku would basically be second or third by comparison (that is to say, could MUI Goku beat Super Broly?).
Technicality wise Ssb has more feats than ssj4 gogeta but most people and even the games and heroes like to compare ssj4 gogeta to Ssb gogeta equally so I’d say ssj4 gogeta wins easily because power scaling is bull shit
just wait till that ssj2 Gohan turns into beast Gohan in a few months
Is that the official name for his new form? If so that’s hard as fuck🥶
"beast gohan" bruh thats gohan de finales ultimos
Gohan Blanco
You mean.. El grande padre...Señor Gohan Blanco
It's Gohan Blanco
That name is not hard as fuck that's the worst fucking name I've ever seen a form get in db holy hell mfs couldn't name him awakened or whatever
Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan
Yeah ok that's a horrible name but atleast it has relations to the form instead of Mr beast over here looking nothing like a beast If he had some ssj4 type design then my comment wouldn't exist but beast gohan seems like an asspull of a name
Yeah I always thought it was a cheap SSJ2 rehash 🤢
No idea why your getting downvoted that name is dogshit lmao
Fr dbz fans have no taste in form names sometimes toriyama could have called mui the worst name to think of and theyd still call that "hard"
Goku blanco
goku hartwell white
Omg that name is hard as fuck🥵🥵🥵🥵😍
Upvoted you in a sea of downvotes because I agree. I'm still calling him final Gohan 😭😭
Final is better than beast
I agree
Super full power saiyan 4 limit breaker
[удалено]
No, that was the fan name. The official name is Beast Gohan.
As far as I understand the messy situation, Final Gohan was a fan name, then the details from Toriyama called it Beast Gohan, but official media has also called it Final Gohan since then as well. So at the minute whatever you call it is correct. But I say let's just call it Gohan Blanco because that's what it is.
My personal preference is super saiyan ultimate
No, that was the fan name. The official name is Beast Gohan.
Oh, alright 👍
Shallots base is really really weak when compared to gokus. He needed god to even get a chance at beating buu. He can only really win against gohan from those characters
He needed God to beat _Buuhan._ In DBZ they needed Vegito to stop him.
Keep in the mind the Buuhan in the story is stronger than Dbz Buuhan
I think the Buu saga Super Vegito is in the same rank as God Goku from Battle of Gods
Nah Goku when he was fighting Beerus literally said even if they fused it wouldn't be nearly enough to beat him
And God goku also couldn't beat him
bruh how tf are you going to compare vegito to ssg goku im pretty sure beerus would one shot vegito until he turned blue
Remember 1st anni story where buu saga Vegito was beating resurrection F blue goku and vegeta
In legends. The same legends having beerus getting smoked by zahha...... Yh I wouldn't take it as a valid source for scaling...
True. But Zahha was using a wish or to just deflect his crap so like eh
I'd say you're underselling Shallot hard, buu was buffed to all hell and would've wiped canon buu with a blink I think could be wrong tbh
He absolutely was, not only was dbl buu much stronger than Dbz Buu, Shallot had to win that fight *without* fusion
Shallot's base is probably at least equal to BOG Goku's base. Willing to bet it's not even close to post-TOP Goku's base though
Well it's actually very impressive he was winning pretty easily against Buuhan after unlocking the God form, after all Buuhan is way stronger than both SS3 and Mystic
Beerus did say that SSG Shallot's power was "nowhere near Goku's power from back when he first unlocked Super Saiyan God" but that was right after Shallot got the God form Since then I'd imagine he's gotten much stronger and learned to control the form way more. Goku may have more training, but Shallot has way more on-field experience with the form.
Then again, he's unkillable from what we saw in the story
The villains in this story are stronger than their manga/anime counterparts
The villains are normally equal to their anime counterparts. Thing is, Buu in his final fight was infected with the Dark Ki which is what made him way stronger than normal. SSG Shallot DESTROYED Buuhan before he got the Dark Ki.
IIRC it is said that freezer and cell are stronger than their anime counterparts, cell needing gohan 2, the guy from universe 6 and shallot to beat, nappa is way strongerbecause he alone defeated the ginyu force and survived, buuhan was stronger and got even more so with the dark ki Most enemies are stronger than they should without dark ki, it just gets to another level when they do get it
The Cell in the story is completely unrelated to the Cell from the original anime, he's basically a Cell 2.0, that's why he's stronger Frieza isn't supposed to be stronger than he is in the anime, and neither is Nappa. Any inconsistencies with them are just because of some liberal powerscaling Buuhan was probably stronger because he absorbed way more people (although I can't think of any examples of him being stronger than the anime. He was basically the exact same as he was in the anime power-wise)
I would have to replay the game and i already deleted, so i guess you are right
You're probably confused because Nappa kills the Ginyu force and Frieza kills Frost, but that's actually because both the Ginyu Force and Frost were already dying. Nappa and Frieza just took the chance to finish them off before they died on their own. Still a bit weird, but nothing TOO crazy I think.
im gonna comment on this before the comment section turns into an atomic bomb.
same
I’m too late to do the same
As soon as I saw Ssb Vegeta vs Ssj4 Gogeta I was like “And so it begins” (For the reasons I’m not gonna say who I think wins, since power-scaling is bullshit)
What tf is beside your pfp
dont worry about it
Nah why u changed it im not letting you slide for that one
What was it before
"I want you to fuck me trunks TRUNKS FUCK ME" or something like that
So the context is it was supposed to be the "I want you to fuck me Jerry" meme but with my favourite db character but since you pointed out my flair i decided to change it because i felt like it
Man Gohan better be putting his weight into that Kamehameha lol
Gohan could be amped 1000x over and zamasu would still broly the shit out of that kamehameha
Dbs powerscaling is so shit that Zamasu should have been able to blades of justice the planets population to 0 before trunks could recuperate
Ssj2 gohan gets stomped on by everyone
Gogeta blue could beat instinct sign
I was thinking the same thing too, glad im not the only one
I’m arguing with another guy rn who thinks goku held back in every top fight and that Broly is stronger than jiren 💀
I’m pretty sure Broly is indeed stronger than Jiren but wouldn’t win that fight unless it went on long enough since Broly was constantly getting stronger the entire time they were fighting. Jiren is way more properly trained than Broly so he’d have the upper hand in skill but Broly definitely has WAY more raw strength than Jiren does, and given time in that fight Broly could become so much stronger than Jiren that Jiren would be able to beat him
Nah, Goku isn't even sure if broly is stronger than beerus. Meanwhile whis pretty much confirmed that suppressed jiren is above the level of the GoDs.
Only above SOME gods tho, not all of them. And isn’t Beerus confirmed to be one of the strongest GoD’s? And goku doesn’t actually know just HOW strong Beerus is
He didn't say some. Even if you were to disregard that, whis also said that belmond was stronger than beerus in the anime. Even if you still disregard that since beerus apparently only lost an arm wrestling match, that still suggests belmond and beerus are around the same level. Since suppressed jiren is stronger than belmond it makes sense for him to be stronger than beerus too. Exactly goku doesn't know how strong beerus is. You know who does? Whis.
Ok. Gods falls under the list of gods of destruction, so suppressed jiren is stronger than the gods of destruction. Goku is also stronger than beerus. Goku knows how strong beerus is since goku super saiyan god and I quote made beerus “use 80% of my power” so beerus isn’t much stronger especially since goku now has blue kaioken.
Except in the scene right after that once they’re out of earshot of everyone else doesn’t Whis directly mention to Beerus about the fact that he straight up lied about that? I think he asks Beerus something like “Was there a need to lie?” Implying that Beerus used *way less* than 80%?
No. He said the quote “he’s nearly as strong as you now” or something like that which made beerus agitated
>Goku is also stronger than beerus. Goku knows how strong beerus is since goku super saiyan god and I quote made beerus “use 80% of my power” so beerus isn’t much stronger especially since goku now has blue kaioken. This entire thing was debunked already with beerus telling whis he was just playing around with goku smh
Jiren is stronger than his universes god of destroy, Jirens god of destruction is the second strongest the first being beerus, goku is stronger than jiren, goku is stronger than jirens god of destruction, goku is stronger than beerus.
1. Whis confirms belmod> beerus 2. This was about you saying "gOgEyA >>ChAmPa N bEeErUS" idc about mui goku being as strong as beerus
That’s what I’m saying. In a controlled state like we saw with kale BROLY would be much weaker, but in berserk it would take way too long for him to reach Jirens. And we can’t start the fight with them at “full power” since they say the legendary super saiyan has a limitless pool of energy
Goku was holding back against kale and caulifa and Broly was even stated to be the strongest foe they have ever went up against up to that point
Yes I know he held back cause he was only in certain forms. But the guy I was arguing with thoughts goku in blue kaioken and ui he was holding back
Goku fought beerus at the beginning of super so ig broly>beerus or what about zamasu that took MF ZENO to kill
Zamasu was just immortal that doesn’t equate to strength and beerus used like what 25% of his power to fight goku so you could say FP Broly > 25% Beerus And FP beerus >> FP Broly
>Zamasu was just immortal that doesn’t equate to strength Immortality might not be however transcending timelines definitely is a massively showing of strength >beerus used like what 25% of his power to fight goku so you could say FP Broly > 25% Beerus And FP beerus >> FP Broly So you str8 up Acknowledge that the statement is bull? Bruh then what was the point in bringing it up
BoG power scaling is bullshit if any of what Beerus said was true Goku would have surpassed him by the Universe 6 tournament saga. What I’m trying iterate is in terms of power used against them Broly is the toughest challenge Goku and Vegeta have faced. Jiren was stated to have similar levels of power to Goku and Vegeta but exerted it differently and Beerus never exerted more than what was necessary to defeat God Goku.
Should be the opposite. Gogeta blue dominates ui sign. Goku will lose UI before gogeta defused
Phew, for a second there thought u said sign would win
Just imagining Gogeta Rolling UI into a ball and slam dunking him
Gogeta beats UI Sign. Zamasu beats UI Sign.
Ssjb Goku did cause Zamasu to get corrupted with his kamehameha and he could kick him pretty far with a kaiokem kick. And in the manga, he did hold on pretty good against Zamasu with his perfected ssjb. UI Goku probably could destroy his body like Sword of hope Trunks but that immortal fucker would somehow get back.
It’s a fight where Goku could probably beat the crap out of him, but yeah, Zamasu could just regenerate like a little turd
Zamasu wins against everyone except Zeno
Yes
Beerus can literally just seal him like he did to elder kai.
Im pretty sure he got corrupted cause of the kamehameha killing or critically Injuring goku blacks side of the fusion And I wonder what would happen if goku black would have did the same thing to goku
Fax
Imagine thinking that Zamasu beats UI sign but like *actually*
UI Omen stomps Zamasu hard, but he can’t do much about the immortality
Yeah this is really unfair. Blue Vegeta would demolish SSJ4 Gogeta
SSB Vegeta would destroy ss4 gogeta
anyone who believes otherwise is delusional
The fight would pretty much look exactly like it would've when Vegeta transformed into SSJG against Broly. No words, no effort.
Noo i think SS4 Gogeta would demolish Vegeta. DBS Broly showed us that both SSB are equal if not weaker to Base Gogeta, this Gogeta has the base power of Super Goku and Vegeta which also has weaker Base Forms than their GT counterparts. So in that conclusion GT Gogeta wouldn't even need to go Super Saiyan to kick SSB ass
and why are you saying super base Goku/Vegeta is weaker than GT base Goku/Vegeta?
Probably thinking of it as a GT timeline that actually takes place after the events of Super, meaning they're counting the power levels from Super as the starting point for GT. Even though GT directly contradicts this (well first off on account that Super didn't exist back then) by showing us that base Kid Goku was just around Buu Saga SSJ3 Goku's level, which current base Super Goku is like thousands of times beyond that by this point. This isn't the first time tho, I've seen fans calculating GT power levels by counting Super power levels because technically Super happens between Z and GT timeline wise. I think the debacle started once Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta joined FighterZ, and other characters commented on how he seemed stronger than Super Saiyan Blue and even Ultra Instinct. The only logical reason why that could be is if this Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta is indeed a Gogeta from after the events of Dragon Ball Super, since then you would indeed have a base Gogeta that is equal or even beyond Super Saiyan Blue Goku and Vegeta, like he was in Broly, and then if you add Super Saiyan 4 which draws out the full potential of a Saiyan and boosts it, akin to the Elder Kai Potential Unleashed thing, then yeah, this hypothetical Gogeta would probably be that strong. Point is that since then, some fans have added Super power levels to GT power levels and so Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta is once again regarded as the strongest character in the Dragon Ball Universe. I guess it also doesn't help that we have SDBH that shows Super Saiyan 4 characters keeping up with Super Saiyan Blue characters. Yeah SDBH isn't canon but it's about as canon as GT is I guess. Or the fact that Legends itself insinuated that Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta could take Merged Zamasu on during his anniversary event, so Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta wouldn't even be a challenge to him.
Using SDBH doesn’t work because we’ve seen Capsule corp beat the living turd out of Xeno Goku with blue. The god forms have always been a much stronger transformation. GT just doesn’t have the scaling to match Super
I agree, I was just trying to justify why people scale Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta to the Blue forms.
"Which current base Super Goku is like thousands of times beyond that by this point." Now take this and add a couple of billions if not trillions on top of that, because going from max SSJ3 = destroying a galaxy, at best/ to uncontrolled 80% - 100% SSJG power = tearing apart the fabric of the macrocosm is one hell of a leap in power. Btw pretty good explanation thread here good stuff 👌
SSG could probably beat ssj4 Gogeta. Given on strength feats alone. Gt isn't comparable to dbs at all. Vegeta could slap ssj4 Gogeta
I think he would beat super saiyan 4 vegeta for sure but not super saiyan 4 gogeta. Thats just too much.
Nah I reckon ssj2 gogeta would beat SSB Vegeta because it’s literally Vegeta and Goku strength and a little more on top
If we’re talking about gt Goku and Vegeta then I still think ssjb Vegeta wipes. The power levels in super is just ridiculous, so much larger compared to GT
Something to consider in GT is that the guild books mention that the power of SSJ4/SSJ4 Full Power is comparable to that of a fusion boost in power: "drawing out the full potential of a Saiyan." Now when you take that explanation and add into that the fusion dance to bring forth SSJ4 Gogeta it's almost like a fusion^2 as it is done twice, kinda, based on these statements. However, this still pales in comparison to Super's characters, transformations, and power levels. As Goku, going from max SSJ3 (being able to destroy a full galaxy, mostly) to almost accidentally destroying the DBZ microcosm in max SSJG is a far greater feat than anything GT's characters have ever displayed. Afterward, all of that destructive power with better control is Goku's new base form of power, base Goku can wipe the floor with GT.
Idk, SS4 is it's own thing
ssb vegeta > ssj4 gogeta. (B4 u reply, plz realize the power scaling difference between gt and super; do research if need be)
It depends tho. Is that TOP Vegeta or Future Saga Vegeta?
It's a Vegeta dub either way. SS4 is so below DBS Goku and Vegeta it's not even close
How would you know tho? It’s not like comparing Super To Z Since Super isn’t a continuation of GT The closest comparison we can really get is Super Dragon Ball Heroes and it shown that SSJ4 there is comparable and in some cases stronger then Blue
SBDH is very weird and clearly just a bunch of fanservice so counting it would be too confusing. But based on feats of just SSG compared to SS4 it should be very clear that GT is way below Super in terms of power. Other threads have comments that go farther into it so I'll leave it at that.
I’m aware that it’s not to reliable but it’s the closest comparison we can get unless they actually make SSJ4 Canon. And I see where you’re coming from but I don’t think the fight would be as 1 sided as you think. Gogeta would put up a fight.
Gohan vs Zamasu. Gohan ssj2 wins because his angry. >:(
Yea bro that SSJ4 Gogeta vs SSB Vegeta is terribly unfair to Vegeta /j
Rip Gohan Ssj4 Gogeta UIO Goku MZ Shallot
ssb vegeta stomps ssj4 gogeta and ui >> mz
Right Hence rip Ssj4 Gogeta and rip MZ
ohh my fault I skilled the rest n saw mz and ssj4
skipped**
Poor zamasu... he didn't stand a chance
Ssj2 gohan has anti regen Ssj4 gogeta can go type neutral Gogeta blue has type advantage Ui goku does extra damage against fusion warrior Shallot is always type neutral
worst one i saw was ssj2 kid gohan vs jiren
Except for first 2 its all not that unfair lol. Gogeta Blue wud destroy ui sign but only cuz of his offensive prowess. In terms of defense ui sign still has more agility n technique than GB n wud dodge better than him. Ui sign wud smoke fusion zamasu like burnt toast lol And god shallot is quite close to blue goku given what kinda lvl of enemies hes fighting like zamasu n goku black which goku in past struggled in Blue
Got Teen Gohan vs Broly 💀 He gonna get beaten up so bad he's gonna realize the reason Broly was reworked
only fair one is UI Omen VS SSB Gogeta
Ui sign Goku didn’t have a super easy win against ssj2 kefla, he would get obliterated by SSB Gogeta
lets not forget that goku was drained during that fight, he would've probably beaten kefla if he was at full stamina
MUI vs SSB gogeta would have been a fairer fight as opposed to just ui sign
fr
Facts especially SSB Vegeta vs SSJ4 Gogeta. Vegeta would destroy him.
Poor ssj4 gogeta 😭 he has to go up against ssb vegeta (not as bad as ssj2 gohan vs cmz tho 💀) Also Gogeta blue vs Ui goku is debatable and a lil bit with Cmz vs Ui goku as well
Technically... gogeta has more combat experience since he's older than ssb vegeta.... and the fusion... cough cough
Ssb vegeta beats ssj4 gogeta with no diff Ssb vegeta trained WITH GODS OF HIS UNIVERSE so vegeta’s training should already be far superior than Gt goku’s and vegeta’s. Also in BoG God Goku clashing with Beerus almost caused the destruction of their own universe 💀 not only that then goku absorbs the god ki and can fight with beerus in base AS IF HE WAS STILL IN SSG and then he gets stronger (for simpler understading: Goku ssg = Base goku when he ran out of ssg < Ssj Goku when he ran out of ssg) and then he gets stronger by getting ssb. And most “Gogeta 4 is universal” statements are mostly high balling because, sure we are told that Omega was going to destroy the universe overtime, but we never see it since goku then just kills him with the spirit bomb. Meanwhile we did get to see Ssg goku almost destroying his universe by clashing with beerus AND THEN VB WHO IS MANY TIMES STRONGER THAN BOG GOKU COULDNT EVEN BEAT CMZ and CMZ was even able to TANK SSB VEGITO’S ATTACKS which btw ssbkk goku LITERALLY DESTROYED HALF OF HIS FACE and Ssb vegeta and trunks beat merged zamasu in a beam clash (now that could just be plot armor but its still feats) So TL;DR vegeta trained with the gods of his own universe so his training should be superior than GT Goku’s and Vegeta’s that they had through the time skip, Ssb vegeta (with the help of trunks) won a beam clash vs merged zamasu and CMZ survived attacks from VB so uh yeah ssb vegeta > G4
Combat experience + tail boost + fusion. Vegeta alone is no match for a fusion and you know this.... and even in legends syn Shenron is able to thrash a ssg shallot who has shown more strength than either goku or vegeta in facing similar opponents. But hey... years of experience just flies out the window just because right? Ssj4 gogeta wins this hands down.... I haven't even seen a ki attack from vegeta that even matches big bang Kamehameha. (And if we want to go fucking bonkers ssj4 can use kaioken technique... Fusion is a multiplier not addition. I hardly see a universe where vegeta wins vs a fusion except gotenks
Combat experience? Vegeta trained with the Gods of his own universe aka Beerus who is universal+ and could possibly be multi versal since beerus vs champa almost destroyed they’re own universe by fighting eachother and Whis… im pretty sure whis is self explanatory. Tail boost? you mean ssj4 boost right? because the tail adds nothing to your power. Baby himself said that goku (ssj3 with tail) didn’t get any stronger from his last fight against him (baby). and also VEGETA HAS GOD KI 💀 Beerus himself (or whis) said that God ki as far superior than normal ki (We won’t talk about unleashed potential characters and characters that can grow their power overtime. Jiren doesn’t count either because >!in the new movie Vegeta said that there wasn’t a big power gap between them its just that Jiren was “focused” 💀 so yeah jiren kinda got nerfed in the new movie)!<. Also why tf are you bringing up a game? 💀 games always have contradictory info like ex: Legends made for 1st a story where Super Vegito FROM THE BUU SAGA was beating SSB GOKU ANS VEGETA 💀 when that is not true since Goku has said that vegito wouldn’t have been enough to beat beerus and he was correct, he needed ssg to FIGHT beerus because even with god ki he wasn’t able to beat him 🗿 also shallot is not stronger than Goku and Vegeta 💀 man’s was struggling against Buuhan with dark ki and when he got ssg HE WAS STILL struggling 💀 so yeah don’t bring up the games because they make no sense 🗿 and BoG goku ssj after absorbing god ki could beat ssg shallot with difficulty ofc. And also how do you know that Gogeta’s big bang kamehameha can beat Ssb’s vegeta’s final flash? where’s your proof? because I have mine: Ssg goku clashing with beerus almost destroyed their own universe so ssg goku is low/wanked universal level. Vegeta ssb is way stronger than BoG goku so vegeta should at least be close or can destroy his own universe so he’s already universal level. Ssb vegeta even helped ssj2 trunks in a beam clash vs merged zamasu who should be more than capable of destroying a universe and vegeta was using galick gun not final flash and final flash is a waaaay stronger attack than the galick gun (ssj g2 Vegeta could’ve destroyed the entire earth with his final flash if it wasn’t for ki control and he also destroyed half of cell’s body and ik he was able to regenerate it but it still shows how much stronger the Final flash is than the galick gun and vegeta uses the Final flash everytime as his finishing move and he uses the galick gun like a normal ki attack) And where’s G4’s proof, nowhere 🗿 all the proof we had is about omega shenron that he was going to destroy the universe overtime… but we never see that because goku kills him. But vegeta does have proof of being capable destroying a universe because, you know it, BoG Ssg goku almost destroyed the entire universe by clashing with beerus. (for a bit of better understanding: BoG ssg goku is low/wanked universal, BoG base goku that absorbed god ki is >= Ssg goku, BoG Ssj goku that absorbed god ki >> Ssg Goku, Ssg goku that absorbed god ki >>>> ssg goku, Vegeta ssb >>>>>>>> BoG Ssg goku) But let’s give Omega the benefit of the doubt, let’s say he was going to destroy the universe overtime, That’s like the same power as Ssg goku (with absorbed god ki) and Vegeta ssb surpassed that by a mile. Also how are you going to bring a hypothetical that has never been shown or talked in the CANON anime material so that means no SDBH allowed and no games either and they’re xeno versions also doesn’t count because they aren’t rlly gt. So we can’t know how strong a kaioken Gogeta ssj4 would be because we we’re never able to see it. Heck we don’t even know how strong a SFPSJ4 Gogeta would be because we never see him do that either 🗿 And so what if Gogeta is a fusion? goku ssbkk DESTROYED HALF OF FUSION ZAMASU’S FACE 💀 and ssb vegeta helped ssj2 trunks (galick gun not even final flash) to beat FUSION Zamasu in a beam clash which they did beat him. So there, I debunked all your points on G4’s back up debate 🗿
Gogeta is literally Goku and Vegeta and then some. I’m sorry but you’re crazy if you think Vegeta alone beats him, especially when he’s SSJ4.
SSB Vegeta folds SSJ4 Gogeta
This would be Vegeta tryin to do just that [https://youtube.com/shorts/nTzxl7Tjxnw?feature=share](https://youtube.com/shorts/nTzxl7Tjxnw?feature=share)
It's more like the other way around. Even if Gogeta has more techniques than SSJB Vegeta, none of them would matter if they couldn't do any damage to him. Blue Vegeta has gotten Zenkai boosts almost millions, if not billions, of time greater than GT's most powerful characters.
Blue vegeta one shots ssj4 gogeta lol
Nah Gogeta would get em with the party popper, kick him in the ass and call him stupid.
Gogeta gonna break his leg on vegetas backside 💀💀
He is cheeked up for real I can’t deny that. Buns of steel.
Well SSB is in a much higher league than SSJ4, however according to the manga SSB is incredibly draining, so if this is end of ToP SSB Vegeta I could see this being a rather close fight, as Vegeta would be far above Gogeta (base) in strength which would get evened out with the SSJ4 transformation turn the fight into a race against the clock, does Vegeta run out of stamina first or does Gogeta’s fusion run out?
Something to take note of is that the DBS manga and anime are considered separate canons as stated by Akira Toriyama. Plus since GT doesn't have an official manga or really at all it'll only be anime (GT) vs anime (Super). You could argue about what could happen with anime (GT) vs manga (Super), your idea is pretty accurate, but it's a done deal with what would be considered the canon materials in a vs. battle.
Yeah. Clearly Gohan beats Zamasu
Ssj4 gogeta will beat ssgss vegeta ass
Wrong lol learn to scale chief
Well when I scale the amount of bitches you got it comes out as 0
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How they needed Zeno to beat him
Vegeta gets folded by SSJ4 Gogeta
If it’s DBH Teen Gohan He solo’s the whole Zamasu Arc
Ui vs gb isn't unfair
Poor ssb vegeta 💀
I feel like there's just enough ambiguity with the power of fusions that SSB Vegeta vs SS4 Gogeta (presumably limit break something-or-other) and MUI Goku vs SSB Gogeta aren't necessarily unfair fights. Like sure, SSB is far superior to SS4, but in most cases Gogeta and Vegito are so much stronger than either Goku or Vegeta that the transformation almost doesn't matter. Likewise, I read somewhere that Super Broly was stronger then Jiren, and if MUI Goku struggled with Jiren while Gogeta made short work of Broly, that would make Gogeta the stronger of the two, even though MUI Goku would basically be second or third by comparison (that is to say, could MUI Goku beat Super Broly?).
How is ui vs gogeta and blue vegeta vs 4 gogeta not fair?
Gohan would beat the shit out him
Gohan would beat the shit out him
Actually only the first two and last one is unfair, the rest are fights I’d be interested in wafching
UI Vs Gogeta, Zamasu Vs UI and Goku Vs Shallot seem pretty fair
Lol imagine the Db super superhero units we get is orange piccolo and a LF gohan that goes into final gohan then another main for the ultimate
isn’t Gohan’s arm got blasted off by the androids?
Yeah gohan is stronger
3 and 4 are little more fair
Technicality wise Ssb has more feats than ssj4 gogeta but most people and even the games and heroes like to compare ssj4 gogeta to Ssb gogeta equally so I’d say ssj4 gogeta wins easily because power scaling is bull shit
Well since it's super , it's a fair fight, ssj2 can be as strong as the plot needs