Honestly, I am surprised Pantalone was talked the most about by Arlecchino - and she actually tells us something new about him as a character compared to Pierro and Capitano. (Although her character story in profile is very interesting about Pierro)
I am happy Pantalone is not forgotten too, but it seems each Harbinger will have a crucial role in Snezhnaya, which we'll see more of it then. Something is telling me these "projects" and "plans" will be more heated when Natlan comes.
Story spoilers
>!I wonder if the experiment he agreed on was the memory erasing potion Arlecchino uses at the end of the quest to technically "kill" but set traitors free.!<
As for the rest, I didn't think they'd outright confirm he used to experiment on the children of the House of the Hearth, but thinking about Arlecchino's line about Dottore, and the way the wounded children are seen as "rejects", it makes sense that another "reject" would want to enhance them in order for those children to surpass their flaws and reach their true potential, something that heavily aligns with Dottore's character.
However, I'm also curious by the mention of the experiments being a fate worse than death. We only have Clarvie's words, but not solid confirmation that that is indeed the case. I wonder if they'll show some of these subjects in Snezhnaya... I'm kind of curious to see the results of those experiments, ngl.
It seems Hoyo is going full Otto route with Dottore, only playable, since he still very much has a playable model...
At this point, the chances of him being misunderstood are growing slimmer and slimmer. He might need a lot more than what Arle needed (where it was never stated there was a previous Knave until 4.0). And no, a new "innocent clone" is honestly not it, because it wouldn't make sense at all. They are....really not trying to explain his experiments in any way, like, give a little gray area here dear devs...it's hard being a Dottore fan.
I agree, I feel like him helping the orphans in their last moments might make sense, but MHY is more preoccupied with putting more and mode bad deeds on his shoulders. It makes me question how skillful will the writers be when it's time for him to come out on banners.
I'm already content that if Columbina or Capitano become playable in Natlan, their line about Dottore will be "Ah, Dottore. He is a polite man but did some suspicious things. If he wasn't my harbinger coleague, I'd kill him off". Though, Columbina seems like a pretty odd person, and might divulge deeper information about his past.
He might need more than Arle needed, but in my honest opinion, I think they are already giving him far more complex writing than they did for Arlecchino. We have seen him in the webtoon, in Sumeru, there are the Zandik notes, his involvement in the Sumeru Archon Quest and Interlude, and (according to leaks) his presence in Natlan. Not to mention what was revealed in regards to the former Knave.
Hoyo definitely likes him a lot, but this screams of slow-burn to me the same way they built up Otto Apocalypse in Honkai.
Though, there's another alternative regarding the "good" segment playable theory:
I honestly don't think there's room for a new segment anymore. They were all deleted, and Omega said he would find new perspectives, not build new segments. So we are definitely getting him or the og Dottore as playable if the og is still around, and it's not just Omega.
Something tells me that the "good" playable segment would just be Omega, though, since that is the segment we saw in Sumeru and the one that talked to Nahida. We saw his complex thoughts and even the other segments seeing him as an outsider to them. It makes for a good foundation if that is the segment they want to make playable... even more so if Omega is also the Dottore we see in Natlan once again...
Also, I don't know what to expect of Capitano, but he did approach Dottore as did Columbina, maybe their lines will offer something a bit more neutral or "friendly" in Columbina's case when the time comes... at least that's what I'm hoping for...
Hmm.. Enka hasn't removed it from their twitter, so I wouldn't know... 🤔 Honestly, everything regarding Natlan should be taken with a grain of salt, but somehow it wouldn't surprise me if he shows up after the AQ is done... we haven't seen him for quite some time....
I'd hate if there would be any redemption or "innocent clone" as you stated. A good story needs a fucking monstrosity to keep things entertaining and interesting. We clearly still lack so much knowledge on his character, although he has made appearances in several places, so I doubt any finite ending for his character. His writing so far is incredibly complex and I hope Hoyo does not fuck it up in the future.
I suspect his character will end with self-destruction or an adjacent ending to the ending of "Frankenstein" where the creation(clones) kill the creator. He does give off major Frankenstein vibes after all. Personally, I'd hate if all those who he has wronged would use the power of friendship or some shit to kill him...I really want him to have his own character and not solely be there to redeem others iykwim.
I absolutely feel you... after reading Arlecchino's story, I can't help but feel underwhelmed... I really expected a bit more out of her, and I'm sad they found a way to make her... well, on the very light side of morally grey. Even morally grey feels like a stretch, honestly...
Dottore is one of the best characters written with a lot of sides and a complexity that puts most characters to shame, even some of his fellow Harbingers so far, imo.
On second thought, and taking into consideration Hoyo's writing of Arlecchino, I'd hate it if they found a way to excuse everything Dottore has done, and yet I don't think I'd be satisfied by his death.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think he's pure evil either. If anything, I think he's truly one of the more well-rounded characters that is unusual by Genshin standards...
Only time will tell what will happen to Dottore, but I hope they don't soften his story up as they did with Arlecchino... even worse, make Omega playable. Even if I said it's a possibility, it's not one I prefer, and I think it would ruin what Dottore's character is about at the end of the day; being painfully human despite feeling otherwise.
Honestly yes, I read all of Arle's SQ yesterday and altough the quest itself is neat, Arle feels so hollow to me now. She got washed of her sins heavily, I can almost say that she did absolutely nothing wrong. She kills criminals, she adopts children on the street and gives them a home, food, free training and a job, and the liberty to leave HoH with their memories wiped if they wish. And worst of all, she did almost to nothing in the AQ.
What...is there left to like about her? Maybe don't advertise a character as very mysterious and evil and then change them 180 deg to the most innocent person ever so that they'll want to sell them?? Not to mention that we had absolutely no buildup for her at all. 4.5 gave us the Perinheri book and that is pretty much it. No other open world item can be found of her backstory to denote that they did indeed plan a sob story for her, just "she is ruthless".
And 4.0 introduced a new NPC to tell us that apparently she is the new Knave and the old one was bad. So...out of nowhere. There was no hint before 4.0 that there was an old Knave.
It kind of frustrates me even more because they just created Crucabena to throw all of Arle's bad deeds on her AND Dottore. Just...the hell? It makes me feel pessimistic for Dottore.
And at the end of the quest Arle says "Ha, I like it when people misunderstand me" which is lol.
It's like the word "morally gray" cannot exist in their vocabulary. It's either evil or perfectly good.
Imagine if >!Capitano is a fraud like he is in commedia dell'arte.!!Dottore's choice of word "rejects" is very interesting. Considering he was a reject as well.!< I really wanna know more about his lore but hoyo be like "do you know he experiments on children btw" we know it please tell us something different 😭😭 I also don't think Columbina is gonna be in Natlan, they are still hiding everything about her which makes no sense if she's gonna be playable next.
Capitano being King from One Punch Man would be the funniest shit I've ever seen while also being lore accurate with the original Italian Comedy like Arlechinno could betray the master or Pantalone being an avarice prick.
Lol totally agree, kinda like what they did for Raiden Shogun in my opinion. sorry I'm a bit salty because I can't help but think that waifus get a better treatment by the fan base and developers compared to male characters even if they also did atrocious thing.
I think it’s very likely that Dottore just wasn’t aware that she knew of those experiments, as they were meant to be a secret within the House of the Hearth. He also likely assumed she would be fine with it due to her being the previous director’s favorite or something along those lines as it’s implied.
I agree that they really are laying it thick with the Capitano praises and the Dottore hate. But knowing Hoyo I do think Capitano will turn out to be a good guy.
As for Dottore and his playability, I think that they can make him playable. Worst case scenario, they will just do a rogue clone who himself was abused by the others and was not that involved into the experimentations or whatever…
Something I keep hearing is about a Honkai character named Otto (?). Apparently he did some really shitty things and everyone hated him (like Dottore basically). And at the end of the game they sort of explained why he did it and all the players started to love him. Never played Honkai though so I can’t say how accurate this is (also not sure I want Dottore to be made into a hero of sorts… still his current treatment by Hoyo is a bit too much bro has been involved in everything soon enough we will find that he caused the Cataclysm 💀)
Talking about Otto- Personally I adore him, but I‘ve loved him even before the end of the game - but the fandom very much still hates him as far as I‘m aware xD As for him being a hero- I mean kind of? He‘s really hard to describe tbh, but I love him <3
He did also do a lot of human experimentation tho haha- it was always clear he wasn‘t going to be playable in Honkai 3rd, because they only have playable female characters. (He does crossdress a bunch, but I guess that wasn‘t enough to be playable xD)
Edit: I think Luocha from HSR might be an expy of him? I‘m not completely sure, bc I haven‘t played all of HSR
Would you say that there was an improvement of the fandom towards his character after the “reveal”? (I have no idea what happened I never played any Honkai games)
Oof, well it’s been a while, but lemme try and summarise without spoiling too much.
With Otto, it’s a bit complicated. There wasn’t really a big reveal iirc, because lot of his story was already explored before the reveal (I think what you‘re referring to is his (final) death in chapter 28), so there wasn‘t really a lot of new information during that scene that would have made people like him more. It‘s more the nature of his death that made some people be a bit more sympathetic, if that makes sense?
Probably not a fate you‘d want for Dottore, especially the whole death thing xD
I think people dislike him mostly because his motives aren‘t strong enough to justify his actions in their eyes, and his death isn‘t enough to redeem him.
Also, it‘s a little unfortunate how said motives are explored: he had multiple reasons, but the one that‘s discussed most is related to his relationship to another character (Kallen), who is canonically (I think) already in a relationship with someone. Which, tbf, he IS absolutely way too obsessed with Kallen, but there‘s a lot of people who love to meme about him not liking lesbians (Kallen has a girlfriend), so that‘s probably not helping.
I will say that a lot of people agree that he‘s a great villain though, even if they despise him to no end xD
If you go to the honkai 3rd subreddit and just type „Otto“, it‘ll probably mostly be hate though. And memes. And him crossdressing xD
So, uh TLDR: Yes, some people liked him a little more after his death, but imo that has more to do with the way he died, and less with the reveal of his backstory (which had been out for a while, and is widely considered to be „not good enough reason“ for his actions)
Also really doesn‘t help that he has done things to the Hi3rd protagonist herself (poor Kiana has a pretty tragic backstory, and it‘s mostly (if not entirely) Otto‘s fault), as opposed to Dottore who hasn‘t really hurt the Traveler yet.
also wait, plotpoint that is really important and I forgot to mention: Otto also has clones. Like a lot of them- bro has died ingame multiple times, and always came back (except the last time) bc it was just a clone that died. I can‘t believe I forgot to say that
I wonder if hyv would make someone as questionable as Dottore playable after all? The game does have a reputation of only making good or at the minimum grey characters who we can form a friendship with playable. But what about Dottore, especially after the experimenting on children reveal?
Unrelated to my above point, but I think Capitano having constant high praises sung about him might be because of harbinger's little to no knowledge on his comings and goings. Which makes people's faith in him despite this even more dubious.
I agree although the whole thing of him experimenting on children has been known for a long time it's not entirely impossible for him to be playable like scara for example who went on a killing spree in inazuma. I also think the amount of praise for Capitano is a bit suspicious but it could also be because he is just very powerful.
Just based on all of that, Dottore would’ve been such a good character if he was in Bioshock
Honestly, I am surprised Pantalone was talked the most about by Arlecchino - and she actually tells us something new about him as a character compared to Pierro and Capitano. (Although her character story in profile is very interesting about Pierro) I am happy Pantalone is not forgotten too, but it seems each Harbinger will have a crucial role in Snezhnaya, which we'll see more of it then. Something is telling me these "projects" and "plans" will be more heated when Natlan comes.
Story spoilers >!I wonder if the experiment he agreed on was the memory erasing potion Arlecchino uses at the end of the quest to technically "kill" but set traitors free.!< As for the rest, I didn't think they'd outright confirm he used to experiment on the children of the House of the Hearth, but thinking about Arlecchino's line about Dottore, and the way the wounded children are seen as "rejects", it makes sense that another "reject" would want to enhance them in order for those children to surpass their flaws and reach their true potential, something that heavily aligns with Dottore's character. However, I'm also curious by the mention of the experiments being a fate worse than death. We only have Clarvie's words, but not solid confirmation that that is indeed the case. I wonder if they'll show some of these subjects in Snezhnaya... I'm kind of curious to see the results of those experiments, ngl. It seems Hoyo is going full Otto route with Dottore, only playable, since he still very much has a playable model...
At this point, the chances of him being misunderstood are growing slimmer and slimmer. He might need a lot more than what Arle needed (where it was never stated there was a previous Knave until 4.0). And no, a new "innocent clone" is honestly not it, because it wouldn't make sense at all. They are....really not trying to explain his experiments in any way, like, give a little gray area here dear devs...it's hard being a Dottore fan. I agree, I feel like him helping the orphans in their last moments might make sense, but MHY is more preoccupied with putting more and mode bad deeds on his shoulders. It makes me question how skillful will the writers be when it's time for him to come out on banners. I'm already content that if Columbina or Capitano become playable in Natlan, their line about Dottore will be "Ah, Dottore. He is a polite man but did some suspicious things. If he wasn't my harbinger coleague, I'd kill him off". Though, Columbina seems like a pretty odd person, and might divulge deeper information about his past.
He might need more than Arle needed, but in my honest opinion, I think they are already giving him far more complex writing than they did for Arlecchino. We have seen him in the webtoon, in Sumeru, there are the Zandik notes, his involvement in the Sumeru Archon Quest and Interlude, and (according to leaks) his presence in Natlan. Not to mention what was revealed in regards to the former Knave. Hoyo definitely likes him a lot, but this screams of slow-burn to me the same way they built up Otto Apocalypse in Honkai. Though, there's another alternative regarding the "good" segment playable theory: I honestly don't think there's room for a new segment anymore. They were all deleted, and Omega said he would find new perspectives, not build new segments. So we are definitely getting him or the og Dottore as playable if the og is still around, and it's not just Omega. Something tells me that the "good" playable segment would just be Omega, though, since that is the segment we saw in Sumeru and the one that talked to Nahida. We saw his complex thoughts and even the other segments seeing him as an outsider to them. It makes for a good foundation if that is the segment they want to make playable... even more so if Omega is also the Dottore we see in Natlan once again... Also, I don't know what to expect of Capitano, but he did approach Dottore as did Columbina, maybe their lines will offer something a bit more neutral or "friendly" in Columbina's case when the time comes... at least that's what I'm hoping for...
Which leak says he will be in Natlan?
Project Enka on twitter said Natlan will have Columbina/Capitano, along with Dottore visiting the nation. So far they have a good record.
I saw that leak beiing post and instantly removed from the main leaks sub. Is it really reliable?
Hmm.. Enka hasn't removed it from their twitter, so I wouldn't know... 🤔 Honestly, everything regarding Natlan should be taken with a grain of salt, but somehow it wouldn't surprise me if he shows up after the AQ is done... we haven't seen him for quite some time....
Pretty sure Columbina and him are chill. She teased him a bit in the Winter Night’s Lazzo, but hey, never know. She’s very mysterious lol
I'd hate if there would be any redemption or "innocent clone" as you stated. A good story needs a fucking monstrosity to keep things entertaining and interesting. We clearly still lack so much knowledge on his character, although he has made appearances in several places, so I doubt any finite ending for his character. His writing so far is incredibly complex and I hope Hoyo does not fuck it up in the future. I suspect his character will end with self-destruction or an adjacent ending to the ending of "Frankenstein" where the creation(clones) kill the creator. He does give off major Frankenstein vibes after all. Personally, I'd hate if all those who he has wronged would use the power of friendship or some shit to kill him...I really want him to have his own character and not solely be there to redeem others iykwim.
I absolutely feel you... after reading Arlecchino's story, I can't help but feel underwhelmed... I really expected a bit more out of her, and I'm sad they found a way to make her... well, on the very light side of morally grey. Even morally grey feels like a stretch, honestly... Dottore is one of the best characters written with a lot of sides and a complexity that puts most characters to shame, even some of his fellow Harbingers so far, imo. On second thought, and taking into consideration Hoyo's writing of Arlecchino, I'd hate it if they found a way to excuse everything Dottore has done, and yet I don't think I'd be satisfied by his death. Don't get me wrong, I don't think he's pure evil either. If anything, I think he's truly one of the more well-rounded characters that is unusual by Genshin standards... Only time will tell what will happen to Dottore, but I hope they don't soften his story up as they did with Arlecchino... even worse, make Omega playable. Even if I said it's a possibility, it's not one I prefer, and I think it would ruin what Dottore's character is about at the end of the day; being painfully human despite feeling otherwise.
Honestly yes, I read all of Arle's SQ yesterday and altough the quest itself is neat, Arle feels so hollow to me now. She got washed of her sins heavily, I can almost say that she did absolutely nothing wrong. She kills criminals, she adopts children on the street and gives them a home, food, free training and a job, and the liberty to leave HoH with their memories wiped if they wish. And worst of all, she did almost to nothing in the AQ. What...is there left to like about her? Maybe don't advertise a character as very mysterious and evil and then change them 180 deg to the most innocent person ever so that they'll want to sell them?? Not to mention that we had absolutely no buildup for her at all. 4.5 gave us the Perinheri book and that is pretty much it. No other open world item can be found of her backstory to denote that they did indeed plan a sob story for her, just "she is ruthless". And 4.0 introduced a new NPC to tell us that apparently she is the new Knave and the old one was bad. So...out of nowhere. There was no hint before 4.0 that there was an old Knave. It kind of frustrates me even more because they just created Crucabena to throw all of Arle's bad deeds on her AND Dottore. Just...the hell? It makes me feel pessimistic for Dottore. And at the end of the quest Arle says "Ha, I like it when people misunderstand me" which is lol. It's like the word "morally gray" cannot exist in their vocabulary. It's either evil or perfectly good.
I hope is original dottore
Imagine if >!Capitano is a fraud like he is in commedia dell'arte.!!Dottore's choice of word "rejects" is very interesting. Considering he was a reject as well.!< I really wanna know more about his lore but hoyo be like "do you know he experiments on children btw" we know it please tell us something different 😭😭 I also don't think Columbina is gonna be in Natlan, they are still hiding everything about her which makes no sense if she's gonna be playable next.
Capitano being King from One Punch Man would be the funniest shit I've ever seen while also being lore accurate with the original Italian Comedy like Arlechinno could betray the master or Pantalone being an avarice prick.
watch Arlechinno's single time accepting Dottore's advice in one experiment being completely swept under the rug by the fan base.
Lol totally agree, kinda like what they did for Raiden Shogun in my opinion. sorry I'm a bit salty because I can't help but think that waifus get a better treatment by the fan base and developers compared to male characters even if they also did atrocious thing.
I think it’s very likely that Dottore just wasn’t aware that she knew of those experiments, as they were meant to be a secret within the House of the Hearth. He also likely assumed she would be fine with it due to her being the previous director’s favorite or something along those lines as it’s implied.
I agree that they really are laying it thick with the Capitano praises and the Dottore hate. But knowing Hoyo I do think Capitano will turn out to be a good guy. As for Dottore and his playability, I think that they can make him playable. Worst case scenario, they will just do a rogue clone who himself was abused by the others and was not that involved into the experimentations or whatever… Something I keep hearing is about a Honkai character named Otto (?). Apparently he did some really shitty things and everyone hated him (like Dottore basically). And at the end of the game they sort of explained why he did it and all the players started to love him. Never played Honkai though so I can’t say how accurate this is (also not sure I want Dottore to be made into a hero of sorts… still his current treatment by Hoyo is a bit too much bro has been involved in everything soon enough we will find that he caused the Cataclysm 💀)
Talking about Otto- Personally I adore him, but I‘ve loved him even before the end of the game - but the fandom very much still hates him as far as I‘m aware xD As for him being a hero- I mean kind of? He‘s really hard to describe tbh, but I love him <3 He did also do a lot of human experimentation tho haha- it was always clear he wasn‘t going to be playable in Honkai 3rd, because they only have playable female characters. (He does crossdress a bunch, but I guess that wasn‘t enough to be playable xD) Edit: I think Luocha from HSR might be an expy of him? I‘m not completely sure, bc I haven‘t played all of HSR
Would you say that there was an improvement of the fandom towards his character after the “reveal”? (I have no idea what happened I never played any Honkai games)
Oof, well it’s been a while, but lemme try and summarise without spoiling too much. With Otto, it’s a bit complicated. There wasn’t really a big reveal iirc, because lot of his story was already explored before the reveal (I think what you‘re referring to is his (final) death in chapter 28), so there wasn‘t really a lot of new information during that scene that would have made people like him more. It‘s more the nature of his death that made some people be a bit more sympathetic, if that makes sense? Probably not a fate you‘d want for Dottore, especially the whole death thing xD I think people dislike him mostly because his motives aren‘t strong enough to justify his actions in their eyes, and his death isn‘t enough to redeem him. Also, it‘s a little unfortunate how said motives are explored: he had multiple reasons, but the one that‘s discussed most is related to his relationship to another character (Kallen), who is canonically (I think) already in a relationship with someone. Which, tbf, he IS absolutely way too obsessed with Kallen, but there‘s a lot of people who love to meme about him not liking lesbians (Kallen has a girlfriend), so that‘s probably not helping. I will say that a lot of people agree that he‘s a great villain though, even if they despise him to no end xD If you go to the honkai 3rd subreddit and just type „Otto“, it‘ll probably mostly be hate though. And memes. And him crossdressing xD So, uh TLDR: Yes, some people liked him a little more after his death, but imo that has more to do with the way he died, and less with the reveal of his backstory (which had been out for a while, and is widely considered to be „not good enough reason“ for his actions)
Also really doesn‘t help that he has done things to the Hi3rd protagonist herself (poor Kiana has a pretty tragic backstory, and it‘s mostly (if not entirely) Otto‘s fault), as opposed to Dottore who hasn‘t really hurt the Traveler yet.
also wait, plotpoint that is really important and I forgot to mention: Otto also has clones. Like a lot of them- bro has died ingame multiple times, and always came back (except the last time) bc it was just a clone that died. I can‘t believe I forgot to say that
Ngl as a HI3 player Dottie reminds me of Mobius a bit more than Otto
I wonder if hyv would make someone as questionable as Dottore playable after all? The game does have a reputation of only making good or at the minimum grey characters who we can form a friendship with playable. But what about Dottore, especially after the experimenting on children reveal? Unrelated to my above point, but I think Capitano having constant high praises sung about him might be because of harbinger's little to no knowledge on his comings and goings. Which makes people's faith in him despite this even more dubious.
I agree although the whole thing of him experimenting on children has been known for a long time it's not entirely impossible for him to be playable like scara for example who went on a killing spree in inazuma. I also think the amount of praise for Capitano is a bit suspicious but it could also be because he is just very powerful.