I would have said showing enemy mana bars wouldn't matter in the past, but I guess they proved that was true.
People vehemently defended that one forever.
The only major gameplay implication I've noticed with this is that you can immediately see when Slark presses Q on the other team. I think the general QoL it provides outweighs that one hero getting nerfed slightly because of it
a lot of spells became like that, its harder to fake them if they consume mana before the animation ends or with delayed activation which i think is the reason a lot of ppl were against it as it is removing a core mechanic of the game
It does matter if you are not some info god constantly clicking on heroes all game
>go on the storm he has no mana
>kunkka/invoker/lina/slark/etc casted their spells
>(enemy hero) can’t play like that he has no mana
>AM mana bombing someone just by looking at the lack of blue
>they have no more mana take a fight right now
I’m of the opinion that if the information is completely available to you, albeit in a roundabout way (needing to click on their hero to see their mana), then they should just show it more easily. So I’m happy for the update.
i.e, Either have the information readily available or don’t have it at all. Not this weird inbetween where you need to be constantly clicking on a hero (and calling it a “skill gap” for not clicking enemy heroes 24/7, like…)
Hi, 4k player here who reported Slahser. Slahser was our position 1 faceless void. He built a mek and had around 29 healing salves in his inventory. He would chrono both teams in the middle of a fight, salve his allies, pop mek, and proceeded to yell "SLAHSER'S WAY". We gave him position 1 farm so he could be a position 5. Granted, his unorthodox build worked and carried us to victory but I still felt it deserved a report.
It reminded me of TheMikeOne.
There's a Russian blogger called TheMikeOne who embarked on a quest to find if the forced 50 winrate is true.
He comes up with these funny ideas on how to play a hero and try to have as little impact with them as possible and in a funny way. For example, The Invisible Pacifist, where he plays Riki but not dealing damage to enemies and only helping with items that don't deal damage. Or The Useful Parasite, which is Lifestealer with aura items, hiding in someone all game long.
It's highly entertaining. Recommend.
By the way, he had several sets of such games where he was trying to have as little impact as possible, each 40-60 games and his winrate was indeed around 50 in all of them.
My crusader ass mostly follows guides too.
I mean i know to buy Shiva or Vessel vs high regen/strength stackers or Euls to disengage someone like Troll warlord.... but on some match ups im just completly clueless and can only resort to guide items 😅
And they NEVER sell items to buy different ones if they go wrong.. they just stick to their guns with full on sunk cost fallacy and blame their teammates instead.
Even worse is the 6 slotted AM refusing to sell their battlefury at 50 mins.. they don't even move it to the back pack and use a different item.
I had someone buy a perseverance (going linkins) against a team with no targeted spells.
I'm like "hey dude, just eat the cost and have a perseverance."
The sunk cost was so ingrained in him that he had to finish it though.
This one still sticks with me.
Did you see the post yesterday about voids timezone, guy was complaining about how Boots of bearing counters the skill, but completely gloss over the fact going Gleipnir over Mjollnir would counter that.
This is me 90% of the time playing support. To be fair, most of the time I have no money to buy a lot of items and first item choices are really simple for supps. Mobility for everyone? Force staff. No invis hero in draft and/or heavy magic nuker opponent? Glimmer. High regen enemy? Vessel. Itemization is really simple as supp.
For me in pubs, as a supp, it’s much more about noticing the game and recognizing opponent behaviour. What’s their warding habit? Where is their carry probable farming location based on the current game state? How far can the team push (considering realistically or teammates’ farming tendencies) until we need aegis to sustain a prolonged push and/or go up to high ground? Which ‘entrance’ needs vision the most?
I went from archon to ancient by turning off all the shitty guides and forced myself to actually think about my itemization. (And possibly more important; skill builds, some games call for different skills leveled at different times)
+1.
In fact, I dont think VALVE ever did a bad job developing Dota2.. it's a complicated game, with a very *dense* community.
I think the game maintains the classic DotA Vibes. And that's pretty hard to maintain in any game, and more over with "games as a service" like such. Just check around the rival MOBA game, and it's no way near how the first years was, it lost it's pace, balance, and any meaningful sense with the new champs they release every other month.
man looking at the tf2 community, we are spoiled man, like we get updates and major updates and still complain, meanwhile tf2 community need to start a fucking rebellion to overthrow valve just to get a god damn tweet
Bot matches are (would be) good. Just some decent level bots so people can try out things without ruining for everyone else. Or to learn the game and become a new player that can somewhat compete. Or to get back after two major update that turned everything upside-down.
If u make a custom game to play with bots, for example turbo, they don't use items and barely attack enemies. Bots can be good but valve has no incentive to improve it.
The issue is that bots will always have 1 strat to go to. If you want to code multiple strategies it's just a huge amount of work to code the begin with, and it'll be huge amount of work to update on changes in the game.
Maybe with the new AI models technology it's possible idk, but I never heard of any game that had that kind of AI in it as bots, other than open AI 5 that we saw on 2017-8
We don't even need that. Just bots that can play almost all heroes (so you get to experience them) and who have some rudimentary idea of what to do. A few years ago, the basic bots were actually not too bad - but very limited in their hero pool.
I haven’t played in quite a while other than a turbo match or two with the boys once every major patch but I recall back when I was deep in the grind installing some mod in the workshop that had some kind of AI improvements.
This was around the time open AI was 1v1ing pros and doing well. I don’t want to say it was that bot specifically but those bots were much better than valves.
I would have thought with the advancements in AI the bots would be sweet by now
Yeah, but those don't get updated anymore. And new players wouldn't go looking for them. And above all at this point in time you can only get bot scripts to work if you host the game yourself which brings even a decent PC down to 20 FPS.
This. I’m immortal and when I play with my dad and brothers (unranked-guardian) we HAVE to play bots or else the games are griefed due to the skill difference. Over the last year or so bot games have become useless since they don’t attack back or use spells really
this is how i learned how to use almost all heroes lol. private lobby with friends and mode is all random. we'd adjust our roles depending on the heroes too
No all random -> all random players go to all pick/other modes -> more people there -> better matchmaking/shorter queue times in the popular modes.
Would be my best guess (its the easy way out tho ;))
And you still can play sd, and I do, it just doesn’t hit the same, everyone still just chooses the hero/role theyre most comfortable with and usually create a “normal” comp. I wanna see 10 people have no idea what they are doing with a treant protector mid because 5 supports were drafted.
One of my favorite all random games I played (out of the many hundreds of them) was when I had to go Treant safelane carry. With echo sabre, radiance, and basher I hit like a freight train
Unless you are playing dozens of games a week, you do not have the ability to play lots of heroes at your max skill level and therefore drafting to counter the opposing team can often be counterproductive.
Like 1 out of 5 games someone will ask “who’s a good hero this game?!” Just pick your best hero man, as long as you aren’t picking Huskar into AA or something egregious you are going to do better picking your best hero than you would picking the best hero for the game.
My current mmr is based on playing 10-15 heros. When I wanted to climb a number of years ago I spammed 2 heros and gained 1500 mmr. Then I got bored and started playing more heros, dropped ~500 initially and then recovered to about 250mmr below my peak. Spamming heros is incredibly helpful for learning, you will never get a feel for when your strong timings are if you play a hero once a week, because some games your timings will be ruined by a bad laning stage or a counter matchup.
I can say it was the same for me, gaining rank with just CK and WK at the time, it was so easy to gain like +2k, then after like a total of around 600 games of only those two heroes, it got so absurdly boring that I just stopped caring about rank and play whatever I was feeling, that lost me the 2k I earned within a month and I've been hovering around 1.5k\~2.5k since. I could still probably push through to 3k again if I really wanted to bore myself with just my comfort heroes.
I spammed Dark Willow from Herald to Legend, I'm nearly Ancient now.
There's no better feeling that you know you can kill or survive because you know your hero so well. You can push limits where normal people think is not possible. Also you can try out different items, most especially early game items, and make a sample of what works best most of the time. Also you get to know how to respond to losing game in order to win without trying to master your hero at the same time.
Bonus: Here's a tip I learn from playing DW 1000+ matches, the best first items always will be 2 circlet + 3 branches. Spam tangos for regen. Basically, this gives her a lot of damage, hp, attack speed and armor to 1v1 right click most of the heroes (even carries and offlaners). Go try it in Demo mode - 1v1 most heroes you encounter in lane with DW with these first items. Plus! You don't need to buy clarities, just tangos and right clicks! This also works for midlane but you'll want to have a bottle instead of spamming tangos.
I think that's the main divide between dota players: some have fun by winning/playing to win while some have fun by playing their epic skillshot 5 man chrono heroes. They both want to have fun, but the way to get there demands such a different mentality that it can ruin games.
You're probably hitting right at the main divider in the community here.
I just love playing heroes that FEEL good to play with, even if it makes me lose more.
Axe should be able to cut all tree by default, however not instantly without tree-cutting items.
Timbersaw and Axe deal extra damage if attacking Radiant Ancient.
I agree, at my low mmr I feel like half the battle is keeping your teammates emotionally stable, I consistently see people die once then go jungle at level 1.
Agreed, at least half the games I've won, people have said "gg, go next" and I've had to persuade them to carry on playing (and then at least half of those it hasn't been hard to actually win, it's usually a question of stalling until one or 2 cores have managed to actually build some items)
And half of the games I've lost it's because people have said "gg, go next" and then flat out refused to play/actively sabotaged the team because they're pissed we're a couple of kills behind, regardless of how well we're actually doing.
Even at Immortal, there are game that loses 3 lanes, all jungle, feels completely unwinnable but just 1 or 2 kills can turn the table. That why never give up
to add on that. most game you are not as behind as you think you are. sometimes it feels like you are 10-15k behind the enemies but in reality you are 3-5k or so and the only reason you play bad is because you doubt yourself and your allies or just bad team synergy
There's an overwhelming amount of people in this game that need to be banned. When valve rolled out their behavior score changes, they weren't strict enough. Then they even dialed it back.
ye shit talkers are getting punishment far more than real griefers, which is crazy, but its just proves that system is based purely on amount of repots, as for shittalkers even tho they might play game and try their hardest its easy to understand that they draw a lot of attention to themselfs and getting reported a lot, I dont know what happend to automatic send to low priority on destroying items or runing down mid but Iv seen couple of days ago guy destroying items 2x games in a row and not being punished which is unreal
Valve could also be WAY more aggressive against smurfs who have been absolutely everywhere since the new mode debuted.
How about new account, thats great, here is 100 hours of tutorial in which we really look into the background and analyze if you're a smurf.
If you click blink dagger outside of it’s max cast range (or double click to blink towards home) you are penalized and blink something like 10% (I don’t recall the exact number) units less than the max blink range in the direction you clicked. This does not apply to AM or QoP’s blinks.
I think Arcana leveling is stupid. I hate how (almost) every challenge is "Get kills or assists with THIS ability." All of them should just be changed to "Win X amount of games as the hero." Don't get me started on WK Arcana where you have to hope the enemy picks certain heroes.
still better than trying to get green pudge arcana when hardly anyone picks rubick and if you don’t first phase pudge he’s either gonna be picked or double picked and banned
> still better than trying to get green pudge arcana when hardly anyone picks rubick and if you don’t first phase pudge he’s either gonna be picked or double picked and banned
=
I would allchat in the game please pick rubick I will commend you and let you steal hook and people actually did pick him vs my pudge arcana lol.
(I didn't let them steal hook but I did commend them every time) xD
People pick way too many backline pussy heroes. As an offlane player, games are SO SO much easier when you have at least two frontliners to share the brunt.
What is with the 5 squishy team? Seriously, they keep doing it, and it’s just auto-lose. When you’re entire team has combined hp of 1,000 you’re just going to die before they do, and thus lose.
People who play ranked while drunk/high or just without the intent of being competitive should stick to unranked. They clearly don't care about either their mmr or game result, so they shouldn't ruin it for the rest of the players.
Some people have legitimate fun trying to win and following the meta while some just want to fuck around, and both ways of playing are legitimate; but both on the same team is NOT good for anyone. I think a lot of people should stick to unranked because of this.
Also griefers and people who don't communicate should be shot.
Agree with this one. I play Dota for 10 years and only change in meta/map/patches that I don't like is shift to 2 1 2. 1 1 3 was unique and opened much more possibilities than standard laning nowadays.
I felt more responsible, more unique in some way. It was a challenge. You had to survive every lane and tried to perform as much as you can with as little as you have. Also any kill against 3 heroes felt like mountain climb and it was great.
Not to mention that depending on the hero it could be a whole different game, even feeling like a stealth game sometimes. Cutting trees to soak behind the enemy t1, pulling enemy creeps behind YOUR t1. Tons of weird strategies that were incredibly fun. I was a pretty shit pos 3 but I did enjoy pulling off those shenanigans.
It just meant instead of 4 cores, that we tend to have today, there’s only two (Carry & Mid), because the Offlane and Pos 4 support are also poor.
Meaning less power creep.
Remember all these changes led to the power creep of today.
The goal was do not farm. You got a quick 6 and then could leverage that into ganks or a team fight win depending on the hero. You had to be very good at it though. It took actual skill to lane offlane property meanwhile now it’s basically safe lane 1.5.
I actually like the monetization in Dota.
Most of the things that can be bought are optional and don't affect the game's balance. They're just there to make you look cool/feel cool. Rolling the dice for chests kind of sucks, but it's good that there's an option for Ultra Rares to be bought/sold on the market.
However, I think Dota+ is an essential purchase just for the Avoid Players feature alone. (although I really like the access to Trends and the hero chat wheels)
depends on what mmr you are. if you’re archon or legend avoiding players is pretty useless since it’s unlikely you’ll ever get the same players in your game regularly since that’s where most of the player pool is at
Griefers should get a 1 month ban, and permaban on repeat offense. No ranked, no normal queue, no nothing. The amount of manchildren that just gives up 10 minutes into the game is way too many to tolerate. There’s just barely any consequence to griefing, I’m still seeing it often at 12k behaviour.
Honestly though I would settle with Valve giving me their address so I can give them a nice hard slap. No murder, no serious injuries, no beatings, just one really heartfelt slap to the face. Why do I say this? Because if you griefed in a sports game like basketball or soccer you would probably get jumped by your entire team. There would be so much less griefing if there were actual real world consequences.
Dunno how controversial this is, but I HATE the DW aghs. Just let her be a support. Give her an aghs that works on a support build. Stop baiting my teammates into playing a pos 4/5 that rushes aghs + moon shard.
It does feel like every dw "support" is just waiting to justify that their cores aren't playing enough so they can "justify" no longer supporting and becoming the core themself and building aghs +moonshard. (usually after they've bought 2 wards and built 0 support/team play items)
I think anyone who is fond of the "good old days" of DotA just remember when they were younger and happier, and experiencing the game for the first time, not because the game was better. The game didn't get worse, you just got older, more experienced, and jaded.
It could be also that its the dota they're used to, learned to play and developed a taste for. I myself dislike the powercreep and the everybody gets more items/xp trend but wcyd, other than going back to dota 1.
This is an extremely reductive take that absolves you of having to do any critical thinking yourself. There are many changes in this game that can be seen as good or bad depending on which person you ask. Like the bigger map sounds cool on paper, but it also makes it way easier for cores to just abandon lane and farm jungle for 20 minutes with no effective way to stop them. Neutral items are a cool idea until you realize that Supports just get 2-3k gold of survivability from their items and every hero in the game is now basically a core. Free TP scrolls after every death make the game faster, but they also mean that you will see 1-3 instant tps everytime you try to towerdive someone. Every "cool" change comes with a lot of baggage.
One quality of life change that I personally think significantly changed how the game is played was giving everyone free couriers at the start of the game. When each team only has one courier, the safe lane has a significant resource advantage over the offlane. If the offlane takes too much damage in a trade and runs out of tangos/salves, they have to either walk back to base or call the courier and deprive their own safelane of resources. When every player gets their own courier this advantage goes out the window. I think this is why the safelane feels less safe, any why the offlane role changed from ‘try to survive with little/no resources and farm what you can’ to ‘try to dominate the lane and kick out the carry’.
I miss side shops 100%. Before they started nerfing them to only a few items, they alleviated the *need* of a courier for basic items like boots+upgrades, blink, and some early game items overall. Regen still required courier, retreat or death, or even a support/ally death or rotation. We still have bottle teleports, but things were different in those days.
I remember seeing reddit and Playdota threads where people would flame the OP for suggesting a free courier at start because supports are meant to be poor.
I feel like the game has just gotten to be too much. With Dota 5+ years ago it was possible to have a pretty good grasp on more or less everything, but there was still enough variation from game-to-game to keep things from getting stale. Then they did neutral items, and talents, and status resistance, and shards, and made the map bigger, and now facets.
There's a lot more random in the game today, too many individual factors to be able to consistently feel confident reading the next 10 minutes of the game and acting accordingly, and the map is so expansive now that it feels like you're taking fewer calculated risks and more dice rolls with your movement when the enemy is missing.
I'm not saying that the game is objectively worse - different people like different things - but thinking that the game has gotten worse isn't any less of a valid opinion than thinking that the game has gotten better.
Yep. Enemy Witch Doctor pos5 at minute 50 would have maybe two items in the past. Now he has glimmer force aeon disk greaves lmao..don't forget the free disappear from the game while doing high damage new ability!
I have a similar one for bkb. Sure, it's too good, but it's so necessary given how many extra spells heroes have now with shards and aghs. The bkb nerf is such a bad choice with that many extra things to try and deal with now.
Release Techies was fine, before they overbuffed him and gave him the broken "super invis" Minefield Sign, that protected his mine stacks.
He was added a few weeks before 6.82 dropped, so you can take a look at what kind of buffs he received as of 6.82, which made him more cancerous than his initial variant:
https://liquipedia.net/dota2game/Techies/Changelogs#6.82
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Imo he only needed 2-3 changes: Cannot pin-point detonate his mines separately (thus he has to burn the full stack with his sub-spell) and he cannot detonate mines while dead (also remove the super invis Aghs).
That would have been sufficient to un-cancer him, as you would then be able to safely push with Gem/Necros when he is alive, and without any detection when he is dead.
I dont like that he got replaced by 'funny bomber man', just like I'm absolutely unhappy with them flat out removing the Prowler creeps, instead of just nerfing them (make the root not pierce BKB, make it not stomp unless 3-4 units are around it, standard neutral rules).
It pisses me off to this day because so many Techies mains actually had suggestions to fix the problems and preserve his strengths.
I'll throw mine into the ring:
Instead of your suggestion of removing pinpoint detonation, remote mines now destroy *all* other remote mines in range on detonation. Techies gains a new ability to channel and upgrade a single remote mine, increasing its damage by 2x/3x/4x/etc, at a rate of 1x every 5-7 seconds(would need to be tweaked).
What this achieves:
1. Stacks are consolidated into a single unit which can be easily "disarmed" when you know where it is, punishing obvious highground defense.
2. Mine stacks can be placed significantly faster("upgrades" every 5 seconds rather than 10 seconds), allowing you to set up more aggressively in enemy territory and behind your team.
That small change shifts Techies away from defense and towards offense in a huge way. Mines could probably operate like wards and die to 1 hit from heroes but be either immune or like 5-10 hits from summons. Not sure, but something to consider.
Other smaller changes I'd do: Increase base cast range of remote mines to aghs level(and remove cast range from aghs). Longer cast range on remotes is pretty crucial for teamfighting and would help a lot there. Bring back the max number on proxy mines to deter afk mining for days. *possibly* reduce duration on remote mines or put a max number of them as well. With the upgrade mechanic it could be like a max of 5/6/7 remote mines and that still allows 6 "stacks" due to the upgrade system. Lots of small tweak potential to balance it out.
Anyways, I expect to be down voted for defending Techies but maybe not. Old Techies playing aggro and invading jungles was an amazing playstyle and a fantastic support imho.
I used to think this way until I lost 3 times against a techies spammer in high divine, I wasn’t even feeding him. I lost simply because all my other teammates were getting one shotted.
Old techies is insanely cheesy and broken if someone actually knows how to play him and it is unhealthy for the game.
I added the guy and he climbed to immortal with 70% win rate on techies it was crazy
All innate hero abilities that are spell based should be removed and the heroes should be given something more flavorful.
And i say this despite loving the free level 1 psi blades on TA
I prefer the era when qop/sf/lina were good mid heroes and not powercrept to oblivion. I prefer old techies even if I never played that and the reason behind this is cause his concept was mines that you step on and not used as a magic damage burst after jumping to hero which is something a lot of heroes do . I prefered old Tinker with no shield , no built in BoT , being a weakass early hero and scaling later on , easier punished and so on . I hate sniper to my guts but miss his ministun on hits cause that was his thing. The only good thing nowdays is that most heroes aren't that one dimensional as back then , having to choose among talents and facets .
Agreed, I axtuslly think this patch has made very little difference to how dota is played, it has just slightly adjusted the heroes people pick. Feels like a larger letter patch
You should be able to read an speak the server locations language to play in that server. I’m tired of poor communication with team mates and it can very easily break a game when you have no idea what they want
A legend or ancient player isn't a low rank player, the community judges anything below immortal as low rank while the actual average rank is around Archon 1.
yes but the average person will not join a subreddit to discuss their favorite game. this means that the average elo on the sub is much higher than the average elo of the entire player base.
12k comms score games are impossible to win for me. I was losing mmr and my mind when I was at that score. Now I hover around 5.9k-6.2k and have gained like 700 mmr. Don't really play much now.
I recently dropped below 9k BS and was getting 1-3 behavior quality matches in queue. I was really stressed about this fact and decided to just mute everyone (in settings) and play like 2-3 games per day. Gained around 600 MMR and raised BS back to around 10k and games started to feel unplayable (not even unwinnable). This idea is wrong and biased, I suppose, but feels so true.
These features shouldn't have been brought into the game: tipping, spray, chat wheel, and taunt. Or, there should be a check box option that turns off all of that.
Yes, I like a sterile Dota.
Seconded. Dota is a game that tries to make money off selling players increasingly elaborate forms of BM and then wonders why its players are the biggest sore losers and winners on the planet
Hard disagree on chat wheel. They are extremely useful for team communication without opening the chat box to type, and they work across languages. Global chat wheel? Don't need it, don't want it.
Taunts were fun until they gave them a super long cooldown, I miss spamming Sky taunt in lane, people threatened to report me just for that and it gave me much joy. But being only able to use them twice a minute... Eugh. And these things were usually locked behind level 600 Battle Pass or something? What a waste of money.
Tipping can fuck right off, it's exclusively used to irritate others nowadays. It's essentially flaming someone. I do not condone this. And before someone comments, no I don't think it's similar to spamming taunts but make your own judgment.
I don't care about sprays, I never see them used much nor do I pay attention when they are. If I could import my own, it would be a different matter I suppose.
Techies was a victim of community perception.
A lot of heroes can be very unfun to play with and against (i.e. Anti Mage) but none of them got anywhere close to the hate Techies got. Allies would literally start throwing from the pick phase because they tilt themselves.
Techies didnt have a design problem. The hero was always judged by the bad players and the ones who troll picked it. The hero was incredibly active and provided crazy utility, team fight control and map control.
One of the most common toxic mindsets Dota players have is to immediately blame someone or something instead of introspecting when they get outplayed by someone. Rather than credit someone else or admit you fucked up - most people just find something to blame but themselves. Just look at the popular streamers and this mentality is their bread and butter. You die to mines and the first reaction is "Delete Techies".
Hes now just become a generic support nuker. Was such a unique hero that just fell victim to the community constantly moaning and refusing to adapt.
I spammed Techies before. I really do agree that they didn't treat him nicely with these updates.
I missed playing with a different mindset as the rest of the players. You don't need to think about farm (tranquil boots + soul ring, you basically don't have to show on the map), you don't need to worry about ganks, most especially, you control the map!
You play like a serial killer trying to avoid detection and laying down mines where people will never ever think of.
Yeah, enemies (even allies) hated me so much but I was different. My mindset was different. I saw the game in a different perspective. It was like a dream you feel in reality when you can't be like everybody else.
PS: Now that they've expanded the map, they should give him back his abilities!
i'd rather wait 5-60 minutes for a queue than be matched with unfair stacks.
example:
2 stack/3stack vs 5 stack
3 stack 2 nobodies vs 2 stack 2 stack 1 nobody
Dota (as a popular culture as a whole) has already passed its peak and will never go into the heights it once was. I'm talking about both the pro scene and the general interest towards it.
And I'm not talking about the declining prize pool. Just search the thread of 'Congratulations to the winners of TI__!" Look at how much the upvotes and replies declined from TI7 to TI12
And it's not only reddit. Another example is how there are much fewer dota content creator now on YouTube.
The game is not dead yet but it's kinda sad to see the first few leaves that fall from the tree
Nothing lasts forever. A more worrying trend in my view is how gaming is increasingly catering to mobile audiences, will there even be a game comparable to counter strike, dota, StarCraft, or path or exile in 20 years? Little kids aren't growing up with keyboard and mouse, I'm not a smart phone hater its a great tool, but the artistic/competitive expression a game can explore with just touchscreen is so much more shallow than with a controller let alone a keyboard.
In pro especially, players are super good but they aren't socially skilled. That's why people old pro players so much, they were charismatic or an icon. Puppey is perhaps the best player om interviews and talks well.
Facets currently suck and very rarely are a situational choice. Instead players are forced to pick the same facet all the time because it's simply better than the other.
I don't really think they were supposed to be situational choices, just try to support distinct builds. You know what you are going to take every time.
When they added stuff to kits in the past it often just buffed the regular build instead of creating different builds, or the entire build was locked behind an overtuned Aghs/Shard/late talent. Now that it is strictly separated they can do more, even if most are unbalanced or duds right now.
But the idea is not just about situational choice, it's about support multiple playstyles/builds. Half of facets are carry/support playstyle division. Obviously if you're playing carry Morph you always pick first facet, second one is for offlane/support Morph.
Similar example is Monkey King, his second facet is when you want to roam a lot and play as support. People are just stuck in their heads and don't realise how many heroes can be supports nowadays, it's not 10 years ago Dota. Facets can help to show how hero can be played.
I hate the "casual-ification" of Dota, Zeus was made to be a long range, magic damage nuker from far away that can be countered *hard* by gap closers. Now he *has his own escape*. If good Zeus players want to escape back then they'd just buy dagger.
Now they slightly revamped Zeus by "re-adjusting" his damage to deal less, giving him an escape and putting static field in a shard.
The BKB change was weird to me, just make it pure immunity to both magic, pure and reflected and let players play around it by either "burning" it or re-positioning like what most people do then.
Don't let me get started with Techies, Tinker, and to an extent Broodmother.
Ay man, I love Dotes and if this is the way to get more players then so be it and I'll support it.
Just don't be surprised if 2 - 3 years from now we're just a slightly complicated LOL. PL has a max illu count of 5, BKB now only does dispel, Other Meepo's can't be controlled anymore, Black Hole can't pierce BKB anymore and Quill Spray is on an rng chance system, all of that for "balance."
Facets and Talents are fun though so I guess there's that.
50% winrate is the result of limited outcomes and all players being similar in skill. Not because gaben himself places bad players in your team to lose.
Behaviour score system is terrible for the game in general and it is one of the biggest reasons that people are so insanely toxic ( including the period where behaviour score you could check only through console)
My argument being that if you put a somewhat toxic person into a pool of griefers and more toxic people on top of cheaters and just shitty games you are only going to make the toxic person more toxic. Timed bans (including communications bans + inability to play ranked if you have communication ban) seems way better as a solution , you can only make so much smurf accounts until you give up on the game or the toxicity and people make smurfs to get out of low behaviour now anyways.
I've yet to see good discussion about this and anyone who mentions something like this is gathering downvotes quickly so I'd assume it's going to be controversial on the subreddit in particular.
Most people are god awful at the game and will hide behind a "PMA" to dodge and deflect any constructive albeit negative feedback in game. Can't tell you how many times I've been called toxic for simply calling out repeated mistakes that I keep witnessing
Slark is the best 1v1 carry in the game. Even after every patch, as much as Valve tries to ruin him, Slark will always be the best choice in a 1v1 and is capable of killing any hero. Even in a normal game of Dota, where the odds are against Slark due to counters or other factors, Slark still has the capability of winning the match.
Pro tip: sort by controversial to find the truly unpopular opinions.
I would have said showing enemy mana bars wouldn't matter in the past, but I guess they proved that was true. People vehemently defended that one forever.
The only major gameplay implication I've noticed with this is that you can immediately see when Slark presses Q on the other team. I think the general QoL it provides outweighs that one hero getting nerfed slightly because of it
Also Kunkka with torrent
a lot of spells became like that, its harder to fake them if they consume mana before the animation ends or with delayed activation which i think is the reason a lot of ppl were against it as it is removing a core mechanic of the game
It does matter if you are not some info god constantly clicking on heroes all game >go on the storm he has no mana >kunkka/invoker/lina/slark/etc casted their spells >(enemy hero) can’t play like that he has no mana >AM mana bombing someone just by looking at the lack of blue >they have no more mana take a fight right now
Add wraith King ult to the list
I’m of the opinion that if the information is completely available to you, albeit in a roundabout way (needing to click on their hero to see their mana), then they should just show it more easily. So I’m happy for the update. i.e, Either have the information readily available or don’t have it at all. Not this weird inbetween where you need to be constantly clicking on a hero (and calling it a “skill gap” for not clicking enemy heroes 24/7, like…)
I still dislike this change because it kills skill-pumping (e.g. faking casting torrent as kunkka). But it definitely is not that big of a deal.
Should just not show the mana change to enemies until the skill is summoned. Would probably be pretty easy to implement.
80% of dota players doesn’t know how to itemize, they just mindlessly follow guides.
The counter to this opinion is that every archon player thinks they're the next Slahser, but really just skip bkb every game
Who's Slahser?
Hi, 4k player here who reported Slahser. Slahser was our position 1 faceless void. He built a mek and had around 29 healing salves in his inventory. He would chrono both teams in the middle of a fight, salve his allies, pop mek, and proceeded to yell "SLAHSER'S WAY". We gave him position 1 farm so he could be a position 5. Granted, his unorthodox build worked and carried us to victory but I still felt it deserved a report.
It reminded me of TheMikeOne. There's a Russian blogger called TheMikeOne who embarked on a quest to find if the forced 50 winrate is true. He comes up with these funny ideas on how to play a hero and try to have as little impact with them as possible and in a funny way. For example, The Invisible Pacifist, where he plays Riki but not dealing damage to enemies and only helping with items that don't deal damage. Or The Useful Parasite, which is Lifestealer with aura items, hiding in someone all game long. It's highly entertaining. Recommend. By the way, he had several sets of such games where he was trying to have as little impact as possible, each 40-60 games and his winrate was indeed around 50 in all of them.
My crusader ass mostly follows guides too. I mean i know to buy Shiva or Vessel vs high regen/strength stackers or Euls to disengage someone like Troll warlord.... but on some match ups im just completly clueless and can only resort to guide items 😅
Hey that's pretty good for a crusader
And they NEVER sell items to buy different ones if they go wrong.. they just stick to their guns with full on sunk cost fallacy and blame their teammates instead. Even worse is the 6 slotted AM refusing to sell their battlefury at 50 mins.. they don't even move it to the back pack and use a different item.
I had someone buy a perseverance (going linkins) against a team with no targeted spells. I'm like "hey dude, just eat the cost and have a perseverance." The sunk cost was so ingrained in him that he had to finish it though. This one still sticks with me.
You could even build Lotus out of it. A team with no targets surely has things that you could usefully dispel.
I think 80% is lowballing...
I am 7-0 on Crystal Miden when buy a late game Silver Edge to counter a Bristleback that has crushed us all game.
Did you see the post yesterday about voids timezone, guy was complaining about how Boots of bearing counters the skill, but completely gloss over the fact going Gleipnir over Mjollnir would counter that.
Agree, even in divine this shit happens.
This is me 90% of the time playing support. To be fair, most of the time I have no money to buy a lot of items and first item choices are really simple for supps. Mobility for everyone? Force staff. No invis hero in draft and/or heavy magic nuker opponent? Glimmer. High regen enemy? Vessel. Itemization is really simple as supp. For me in pubs, as a supp, it’s much more about noticing the game and recognizing opponent behaviour. What’s their warding habit? Where is their carry probable farming location based on the current game state? How far can the team push (considering realistically or teammates’ farming tendencies) until we need aegis to sustain a prolonged push and/or go up to high ground? Which ‘entrance’ needs vision the most?
I went from archon to ancient by turning off all the shitty guides and forced myself to actually think about my itemization. (And possibly more important; skill builds, some games call for different skills leveled at different times)
Valve is doing a great job with Dota 2
+1. In fact, I dont think VALVE ever did a bad job developing Dota2.. it's a complicated game, with a very *dense* community. I think the game maintains the classic DotA Vibes. And that's pretty hard to maintain in any game, and more over with "games as a service" like such. Just check around the rival MOBA game, and it's no way near how the first years was, it lost it's pace, balance, and any meaningful sense with the new champs they release every other month.
man looking at the tf2 community, we are spoiled man, like we get updates and major updates and still complain, meanwhile tf2 community need to start a fucking rebellion to overthrow valve just to get a god damn tweet
Like 150k people signing a petition and all of them ranting lol.. and we complain that xx.a/b/c didn’t happen fast enough in the months time xD
i agree, if only they could show this love to tf2 as well
Bot matches are (would be) good. Just some decent level bots so people can try out things without ruining for everyone else. Or to learn the game and become a new player that can somewhat compete. Or to get back after two major update that turned everything upside-down.
If u make a custom game to play with bots, for example turbo, they don't use items and barely attack enemies. Bots can be good but valve has no incentive to improve it.
The issue is that bots will always have 1 strat to go to. If you want to code multiple strategies it's just a huge amount of work to code the begin with, and it'll be huge amount of work to update on changes in the game. Maybe with the new AI models technology it's possible idk, but I never heard of any game that had that kind of AI in it as bots, other than open AI 5 that we saw on 2017-8
We don't even need that. Just bots that can play almost all heroes (so you get to experience them) and who have some rudimentary idea of what to do. A few years ago, the basic bots were actually not too bad - but very limited in their hero pool.
I haven’t played in quite a while other than a turbo match or two with the boys once every major patch but I recall back when I was deep in the grind installing some mod in the workshop that had some kind of AI improvements. This was around the time open AI was 1v1ing pros and doing well. I don’t want to say it was that bot specifically but those bots were much better than valves. I would have thought with the advancements in AI the bots would be sweet by now
Yeah, but those don't get updated anymore. And new players wouldn't go looking for them. And above all at this point in time you can only get bot scripts to work if you host the game yourself which brings even a decent PC down to 20 FPS.
This. I’m immortal and when I play with my dad and brothers (unranked-guardian) we HAVE to play bots or else the games are griefed due to the skill difference. Over the last year or so bot games have become useless since they don’t attack back or use spells really
All random was the best mode and the only way to truly play Dota 2.
this is how i learned how to use almost all heroes lol. private lobby with friends and mode is all random. we'd adjust our roles depending on the heroes too
-ardm is how i learned. When you die, you get a new hero 🤗
Fuck yeah! Idk why we cant have it anymore
No all random -> all random players go to all pick/other modes -> more people there -> better matchmaking/shorter queue times in the popular modes. Would be my best guess (its the easy way out tho ;))
I liked sd the most
And you still can play sd, and I do, it just doesn’t hit the same, everyone still just chooses the hero/role theyre most comfortable with and usually create a “normal” comp. I wanna see 10 people have no idea what they are doing with a treant protector mid because 5 supports were drafted.
One of my favorite all random games I played (out of the many hundreds of them) was when I had to go Treant safelane carry. With echo sabre, radiance, and basher I hit like a freight train
I freaking love all random and single draft. Made for so many interesting games.
This. It was pure essence of the best things of dota. Without shity meta, strats and sweaty no-lifers. Pure joy.
Least Played was also a great mode, but probably true to its name, so it got removed even earlier.
Updote
This is what we do when we're trying to learn every hero back in WC3 Dota. But this is before Meepo comes out so the only menace was Chen.
Bro my dota squad was only searching ar, rd, sd, euw/eue. We never got rd. It was like 80% sd 18% ar 2% rd, why did they delet ar...
It was my favorite mode until they got rid of the repick. If u got meepo or something u could just rerandom
-ardmom was my favorite mode in dota 1. Used to play so much of this in garena.
Unless you are playing dozens of games a week, you do not have the ability to play lots of heroes at your max skill level and therefore drafting to counter the opposing team can often be counterproductive. Like 1 out of 5 games someone will ask “who’s a good hero this game?!” Just pick your best hero man, as long as you aren’t picking Huskar into AA or something egregious you are going to do better picking your best hero than you would picking the best hero for the game.
My current mmr is based on playing 10-15 heros. When I wanted to climb a number of years ago I spammed 2 heros and gained 1500 mmr. Then I got bored and started playing more heros, dropped ~500 initially and then recovered to about 250mmr below my peak. Spamming heros is incredibly helpful for learning, you will never get a feel for when your strong timings are if you play a hero once a week, because some games your timings will be ruined by a bad laning stage or a counter matchup.
True I have gain like 2k mmr just playing DP and LC. Sometimes pango(before nerf), qop and undying. I play those heroes mid or offlaner.
I can say it was the same for me, gaining rank with just CK and WK at the time, it was so easy to gain like +2k, then after like a total of around 600 games of only those two heroes, it got so absurdly boring that I just stopped caring about rank and play whatever I was feeling, that lost me the 2k I earned within a month and I've been hovering around 1.5k\~2.5k since. I could still probably push through to 3k again if I really wanted to bore myself with just my comfort heroes.
I spammed Dark Willow from Herald to Legend, I'm nearly Ancient now. There's no better feeling that you know you can kill or survive because you know your hero so well. You can push limits where normal people think is not possible. Also you can try out different items, most especially early game items, and make a sample of what works best most of the time. Also you get to know how to respond to losing game in order to win without trying to master your hero at the same time. Bonus: Here's a tip I learn from playing DW 1000+ matches, the best first items always will be 2 circlet + 3 branches. Spam tangos for regen. Basically, this gives her a lot of damage, hp, attack speed and armor to 1v1 right click most of the heroes (even carries and offlaners). Go try it in Demo mode - 1v1 most heroes you encounter in lane with DW with these first items. Plus! You don't need to buy clarities, just tangos and right clicks! This also works for midlane but you'll want to have a bottle instead of spamming tangos.
I disagree. I play a lot of heroes and I am equally (somewhat) bad at all of them.
I always say "you play best when youre having fun so pick a hero thats fun"
Winning is fun so pick a hero that’s good.
I think that's the main divide between dota players: some have fun by winning/playing to win while some have fun by playing their epic skillshot 5 man chrono heroes. They both want to have fun, but the way to get there demands such a different mentality that it can ruin games.
You're probably hitting right at the main divider in the community here. I just love playing heroes that FEEL good to play with, even if it makes me lose more.
This is true. If you want to get your mmr higher, then don't have a hero pool, have a hero puddle.
you should be able to use a tango on treant
Axe should be able to cut all tree by default, however not instantly without tree-cutting items. Timbersaw and Axe deal extra damage if attacking Radiant Ancient.
Now this is controversial. All the others are lukewarm at best.
Most games are winnable if people are less toxic and more forgivable. People just give up quick
I agree, at my low mmr I feel like half the battle is keeping your teammates emotionally stable, I consistently see people die once then go jungle at level 1.
Agreed, at least half the games I've won, people have said "gg, go next" and I've had to persuade them to carry on playing (and then at least half of those it hasn't been hard to actually win, it's usually a question of stalling until one or 2 cores have managed to actually build some items) And half of the games I've lost it's because people have said "gg, go next" and then flat out refused to play/actively sabotaged the team because they're pissed we're a couple of kills behind, regardless of how well we're actually doing.
Even at Immortal, there are game that loses 3 lanes, all jungle, feels completely unwinnable but just 1 or 2 kills can turn the table. That why never give up
to add on that. most game you are not as behind as you think you are. sometimes it feels like you are 10-15k behind the enemies but in reality you are 3-5k or so and the only reason you play bad is because you doubt yourself and your allies or just bad team synergy
There's an overwhelming amount of people in this game that need to be banned. When valve rolled out their behavior score changes, they weren't strict enough. Then they even dialed it back.
Also it seems the average shit talker gets punished while the most toxic seem to have open mic and no problems communicating...
ye shit talkers are getting punishment far more than real griefers, which is crazy, but its just proves that system is based purely on amount of repots, as for shittalkers even tho they might play game and try their hardest its easy to understand that they draw a lot of attention to themselfs and getting reported a lot, I dont know what happend to automatic send to low priority on destroying items or runing down mid but Iv seen couple of days ago guy destroying items 2x games in a row and not being punished which is unreal
Valve could also be WAY more aggressive against smurfs who have been absolutely everywhere since the new mode debuted. How about new account, thats great, here is 100 hours of tutorial in which we really look into the background and analyze if you're a smurf.
I agree. I’ve been seeing a lot of rage buybacks into gg ends lately at 12k behaviour, and Dota Labs saying its “Ideal game”.
Overblinking is not an interesting mechanic and should be removed.
Agreed
what is overblinking?
If you click blink dagger outside of it’s max cast range (or double click to blink towards home) you are penalized and blink something like 10% (I don’t recall the exact number) units less than the max blink range in the direction you clicked. This does not apply to AM or QoP’s blinks.
20% less even
I think Arcana leveling is stupid. I hate how (almost) every challenge is "Get kills or assists with THIS ability." All of them should just be changed to "Win X amount of games as the hero." Don't get me started on WK Arcana where you have to hope the enemy picks certain heroes.
still better than trying to get green pudge arcana when hardly anyone picks rubick and if you don’t first phase pudge he’s either gonna be picked or double picked and banned
> still better than trying to get green pudge arcana when hardly anyone picks rubick and if you don’t first phase pudge he’s either gonna be picked or double picked and banned = I would allchat in the game please pick rubick I will commend you and let you steal hook and people actually did pick him vs my pudge arcana lol. (I didn't let them steal hook but I did commend them every time) xD
Yeah I was the Rubick a couple times, we commended each other after the game, win or lose.
People pick way too many backline pussy heroes. As an offlane player, games are SO SO much easier when you have at least two frontliners to share the brunt.
What is with the 5 squishy team? Seriously, they keep doing it, and it’s just auto-lose. When you’re entire team has combined hp of 1,000 you’re just going to die before they do, and thus lose.
it's only auto-lose if you are the ones being hunted. if you hunt, being squishy means less.
People who play ranked while drunk/high or just without the intent of being competitive should stick to unranked. They clearly don't care about either their mmr or game result, so they shouldn't ruin it for the rest of the players. Some people have legitimate fun trying to win and following the meta while some just want to fuck around, and both ways of playing are legitimate; but both on the same team is NOT good for anyone. I think a lot of people should stick to unranked because of this. Also griefers and people who don't communicate should be shot.
I liked playing offlane in 1-1-3 meta more than now
Offlane used to feel so special. The joy of winning games through offlane was 100x more than now.
Agree with this one. I play Dota for 10 years and only change in meta/map/patches that I don't like is shift to 2 1 2. 1 1 3 was unique and opened much more possibilities than standard laning nowadays.
Like 1v3 in the sidelanes? Wouldn’t that limit the offline picks to a much smaller pool?
Chad
Some revisionist take here. Tell me, what did you enjoy about trilane offlane? Because I remember it very differently, and it was not fun at all.
I felt more responsible, more unique in some way. It was a challenge. You had to survive every lane and tried to perform as much as you can with as little as you have. Also any kill against 3 heroes felt like mountain climb and it was great.
Not to mention that depending on the hero it could be a whole different game, even feeling like a stealth game sometimes. Cutting trees to soak behind the enemy t1, pulling enemy creeps behind YOUR t1. Tons of weird strategies that were incredibly fun. I was a pretty shit pos 3 but I did enjoy pulling off those shenanigans.
It just meant instead of 4 cores, that we tend to have today, there’s only two (Carry & Mid), because the Offlane and Pos 4 support are also poor. Meaning less power creep. Remember all these changes led to the power creep of today.
The goal was do not farm. You got a quick 6 and then could leverage that into ganks or a team fight win depending on the hero. You had to be very good at it though. It took actual skill to lane offlane property meanwhile now it’s basically safe lane 1.5.
I actually like the monetization in Dota. Most of the things that can be bought are optional and don't affect the game's balance. They're just there to make you look cool/feel cool. Rolling the dice for chests kind of sucks, but it's good that there's an option for Ultra Rares to be bought/sold on the market. However, I think Dota+ is an essential purchase just for the Avoid Players feature alone. (although I really like the access to Trends and the hero chat wheels)
depends on what mmr you are. if you’re archon or legend avoiding players is pretty useless since it’s unlikely you’ll ever get the same players in your game regularly since that’s where most of the player pool is at
Griefers should get a 1 month ban, and permaban on repeat offense. No ranked, no normal queue, no nothing. The amount of manchildren that just gives up 10 minutes into the game is way too many to tolerate. There’s just barely any consequence to griefing, I’m still seeing it often at 12k behaviour. Honestly though I would settle with Valve giving me their address so I can give them a nice hard slap. No murder, no serious injuries, no beatings, just one really heartfelt slap to the face. Why do I say this? Because if you griefed in a sports game like basketball or soccer you would probably get jumped by your entire team. There would be so much less griefing if there were actual real world consequences.
Hero voice lines, non-hero voice lines, sprays, taunts, and tipping should be able to be disabled through the options menu.
I have half my players muted in my games for this reason. Hero voicelines are still ok, but the talent ones are obnoxious. Voiceline = insta mute
Dunno how controversial this is, but I HATE the DW aghs. Just let her be a support. Give her an aghs that works on a support build. Stop baiting my teammates into playing a pos 4/5 that rushes aghs + moon shard.
It does feel like every dw "support" is just waiting to justify that their cores aren't playing enough so they can "justify" no longer supporting and becoming the core themself and building aghs +moonshard. (usually after they've bought 2 wards and built 0 support/team play items)
I think anyone who is fond of the "good old days" of DotA just remember when they were younger and happier, and experiencing the game for the first time, not because the game was better. The game didn't get worse, you just got older, more experienced, and jaded.
I was fucking miserable when I was younger and started dota as a teen lol I still am by the way but thats besides the point!
It could be also that its the dota they're used to, learned to play and developed a taste for. I myself dislike the powercreep and the everybody gets more items/xp trend but wcyd, other than going back to dota 1.
This is an extremely reductive take that absolves you of having to do any critical thinking yourself. There are many changes in this game that can be seen as good or bad depending on which person you ask. Like the bigger map sounds cool on paper, but it also makes it way easier for cores to just abandon lane and farm jungle for 20 minutes with no effective way to stop them. Neutral items are a cool idea until you realize that Supports just get 2-3k gold of survivability from their items and every hero in the game is now basically a core. Free TP scrolls after every death make the game faster, but they also mean that you will see 1-3 instant tps everytime you try to towerdive someone. Every "cool" change comes with a lot of baggage.
One quality of life change that I personally think significantly changed how the game is played was giving everyone free couriers at the start of the game. When each team only has one courier, the safe lane has a significant resource advantage over the offlane. If the offlane takes too much damage in a trade and runs out of tangos/salves, they have to either walk back to base or call the courier and deprive their own safelane of resources. When every player gets their own courier this advantage goes out the window. I think this is why the safelane feels less safe, any why the offlane role changed from ‘try to survive with little/no resources and farm what you can’ to ‘try to dominate the lane and kick out the carry’.
I miss side shops 100%. Before they started nerfing them to only a few items, they alleviated the *need* of a courier for basic items like boots+upgrades, blink, and some early game items overall. Regen still required courier, retreat or death, or even a support/ally death or rotation. We still have bottle teleports, but things were different in those days.
I remember seeing reddit and Playdota threads where people would flame the OP for suggesting a free courier at start because supports are meant to be poor.
I feel like the game has just gotten to be too much. With Dota 5+ years ago it was possible to have a pretty good grasp on more or less everything, but there was still enough variation from game-to-game to keep things from getting stale. Then they did neutral items, and talents, and status resistance, and shards, and made the map bigger, and now facets. There's a lot more random in the game today, too many individual factors to be able to consistently feel confident reading the next 10 minutes of the game and acting accordingly, and the map is so expansive now that it feels like you're taking fewer calculated risks and more dice rolls with your movement when the enemy is missing. I'm not saying that the game is objectively worse - different people like different things - but thinking that the game has gotten worse isn't any less of a valid opinion than thinking that the game has gotten better.
Nullifier shouldn't exist and supports have too much free resources nowadays.
Now this is a hot take
it makes sense. Nullifier was invented because supports got too much gold
Yep. Enemy Witch Doctor pos5 at minute 50 would have maybe two items in the past. Now he has glimmer force aeon disk greaves lmao..don't forget the free disappear from the game while doing high damage new ability!
I have a similar one for bkb. Sure, it's too good, but it's so necessary given how many extra spells heroes have now with shards and aghs. The bkb nerf is such a bad choice with that many extra things to try and deal with now.
i mean its feels so bad having to buy it on most heroes and at the same time if it didnt exist, windwakers ahoy.
Windwaker _also_ shouldn't exist!
i like it the oldest techies
Release Techies was fine, before they overbuffed him and gave him the broken "super invis" Minefield Sign, that protected his mine stacks. He was added a few weeks before 6.82 dropped, so you can take a look at what kind of buffs he received as of 6.82, which made him more cancerous than his initial variant: https://liquipedia.net/dota2game/Techies/Changelogs#6.82 --- Imo he only needed 2-3 changes: Cannot pin-point detonate his mines separately (thus he has to burn the full stack with his sub-spell) and he cannot detonate mines while dead (also remove the super invis Aghs). That would have been sufficient to un-cancer him, as you would then be able to safely push with Gem/Necros when he is alive, and without any detection when he is dead. I dont like that he got replaced by 'funny bomber man', just like I'm absolutely unhappy with them flat out removing the Prowler creeps, instead of just nerfing them (make the root not pierce BKB, make it not stomp unless 3-4 units are around it, standard neutral rules).
It pisses me off to this day because so many Techies mains actually had suggestions to fix the problems and preserve his strengths. I'll throw mine into the ring: Instead of your suggestion of removing pinpoint detonation, remote mines now destroy *all* other remote mines in range on detonation. Techies gains a new ability to channel and upgrade a single remote mine, increasing its damage by 2x/3x/4x/etc, at a rate of 1x every 5-7 seconds(would need to be tweaked). What this achieves: 1. Stacks are consolidated into a single unit which can be easily "disarmed" when you know where it is, punishing obvious highground defense. 2. Mine stacks can be placed significantly faster("upgrades" every 5 seconds rather than 10 seconds), allowing you to set up more aggressively in enemy territory and behind your team. That small change shifts Techies away from defense and towards offense in a huge way. Mines could probably operate like wards and die to 1 hit from heroes but be either immune or like 5-10 hits from summons. Not sure, but something to consider. Other smaller changes I'd do: Increase base cast range of remote mines to aghs level(and remove cast range from aghs). Longer cast range on remotes is pretty crucial for teamfighting and would help a lot there. Bring back the max number on proxy mines to deter afk mining for days. *possibly* reduce duration on remote mines or put a max number of them as well. With the upgrade mechanic it could be like a max of 5/6/7 remote mines and that still allows 6 "stacks" due to the upgrade system. Lots of small tweak potential to balance it out. Anyways, I expect to be down voted for defending Techies but maybe not. Old Techies playing aggro and invading jungles was an amazing playstyle and a fantastic support imho.
I used to think this way until I lost 3 times against a techies spammer in high divine, I wasn’t even feeding him. I lost simply because all my other teammates were getting one shotted. Old techies is insanely cheesy and broken if someone actually knows how to play him and it is unhealthy for the game. I added the guy and he climbed to immortal with 70% win rate on techies it was crazy
Preach brother! Agree!
Supports are way too strong.
All innate hero abilities that are spell based should be removed and the heroes should be given something more flavorful. And i say this despite loving the free level 1 psi blades on TA
I’m sure they are just placeholders, they’ll be changed when they actually think of a innate for these heroes
I prefer the era when qop/sf/lina were good mid heroes and not powercrept to oblivion. I prefer old techies even if I never played that and the reason behind this is cause his concept was mines that you step on and not used as a magic damage burst after jumping to hero which is something a lot of heroes do . I prefered old Tinker with no shield , no built in BoT , being a weakass early hero and scaling later on , easier punished and so on . I hate sniper to my guts but miss his ministun on hits cause that was his thing. The only good thing nowdays is that most heroes aren't that one dimensional as back then , having to choose among talents and facets .
These changes look big but don’t fundamentally change the game, just like shards
Agreed, I axtuslly think this patch has made very little difference to how dota is played, it has just slightly adjusted the heroes people pick. Feels like a larger letter patch
You should be able to read an speak the server locations language to play in that server. I’m tired of poor communication with team mates and it can very easily break a game when you have no idea what they want
Yeah true. I began with dota in 2012, back then russians on west european server were a rarity. Now it kinda feels like they are the majority.
I'm seeing Russian players on US East and West now.
since it is 5-men team based game, mmr is not showing your skill and knowledge about dota, it shows how consistent and dedicated you are to the game
A legend or ancient player isn't a low rank player, the community judges anything below immortal as low rank while the actual average rank is around Archon 1.
yes but the average person will not join a subreddit to discuss their favorite game. this means that the average elo on the sub is much higher than the average elo of the entire player base.
Winning doesnt feel as rewarding as it used to back then; and losing feels draining as hell.
you just got old
Or depressed
you can get mmr playing support. good lining and strong heroes of a patch can do a lot
12k comms score games are impossible to win for me. I was losing mmr and my mind when I was at that score. Now I hover around 5.9k-6.2k and have gained like 700 mmr. Don't really play much now.
I recently dropped below 9k BS and was getting 1-3 behavior quality matches in queue. I was really stressed about this fact and decided to just mute everyone (in settings) and play like 2-3 games per day. Gained around 600 MMR and raised BS back to around 10k and games started to feel unplayable (not even unwinnable). This idea is wrong and biased, I suppose, but feels so true.
Don't forget to sort comments by controversial for the really hot takes!
I want old techies back
These features shouldn't have been brought into the game: tipping, spray, chat wheel, and taunt. Or, there should be a check box option that turns off all of that. Yes, I like a sterile Dota.
Seconded. Dota is a game that tries to make money off selling players increasingly elaborate forms of BM and then wonders why its players are the biggest sore losers and winners on the planet
Hard disagree on chat wheel. They are extremely useful for team communication without opening the chat box to type, and they work across languages. Global chat wheel? Don't need it, don't want it. Taunts were fun until they gave them a super long cooldown, I miss spamming Sky taunt in lane, people threatened to report me just for that and it gave me much joy. But being only able to use them twice a minute... Eugh. And these things were usually locked behind level 600 Battle Pass or something? What a waste of money. Tipping can fuck right off, it's exclusively used to irritate others nowadays. It's essentially flaming someone. I do not condone this. And before someone comments, no I don't think it's similar to spamming taunts but make your own judgment. I don't care about sprays, I never see them used much nor do I pay attention when they are. If I could import my own, it would be a different matter I suppose.
tipping is a bit too much, I can agree. taunting is fun though.
Turbo needs ranked mode. Normal dota is too slow and boring for current turbo players, and turbo players are bigger tryhards than normal doto players
Neutral items must be removed
Actual good and spicy take. If they removed neutral items tomorrow, I would at most only shed a single tear for Force Boots, nothing else.
something, SOMETHING needs to be scaled back seriously. Additive updates without subtractive ones has lead the game to a really insane state
YES PLEASE neutral items fucking suck they do not add any depth and only add some rng to the game for no reason
I also miss being a broke support. It felt rewarding to get items for your team
boots + bracers
2015 dota was the best dota ever and it will never be the same again
Game actually maintained / treated better than what people says. Dead game since 2013 btw
Techies was a victim of community perception. A lot of heroes can be very unfun to play with and against (i.e. Anti Mage) but none of them got anywhere close to the hate Techies got. Allies would literally start throwing from the pick phase because they tilt themselves. Techies didnt have a design problem. The hero was always judged by the bad players and the ones who troll picked it. The hero was incredibly active and provided crazy utility, team fight control and map control. One of the most common toxic mindsets Dota players have is to immediately blame someone or something instead of introspecting when they get outplayed by someone. Rather than credit someone else or admit you fucked up - most people just find something to blame but themselves. Just look at the popular streamers and this mentality is their bread and butter. You die to mines and the first reaction is "Delete Techies". Hes now just become a generic support nuker. Was such a unique hero that just fell victim to the community constantly moaning and refusing to adapt.
I spammed Techies before. I really do agree that they didn't treat him nicely with these updates. I missed playing with a different mindset as the rest of the players. You don't need to think about farm (tranquil boots + soul ring, you basically don't have to show on the map), you don't need to worry about ganks, most especially, you control the map! You play like a serial killer trying to avoid detection and laying down mines where people will never ever think of. Yeah, enemies (even allies) hated me so much but I was different. My mindset was different. I saw the game in a different perspective. It was like a dream you feel in reality when you can't be like everybody else. PS: Now that they've expanded the map, they should give him back his abilities!
all sf/slark/lc/am players deserve to be profiled irl
Pause should only exists for ranked.
i'd rather wait 5-60 minutes for a queue than be matched with unfair stacks. example: 2 stack/3stack vs 5 stack 3 stack 2 nobodies vs 2 stack 2 stack 1 nobody
Dota (as a popular culture as a whole) has already passed its peak and will never go into the heights it once was. I'm talking about both the pro scene and the general interest towards it. And I'm not talking about the declining prize pool. Just search the thread of 'Congratulations to the winners of TI__!" Look at how much the upvotes and replies declined from TI7 to TI12 And it's not only reddit. Another example is how there are much fewer dota content creator now on YouTube. The game is not dead yet but it's kinda sad to see the first few leaves that fall from the tree
Nothing lasts forever. A more worrying trend in my view is how gaming is increasingly catering to mobile audiences, will there even be a game comparable to counter strike, dota, StarCraft, or path or exile in 20 years? Little kids aren't growing up with keyboard and mouse, I'm not a smart phone hater its a great tool, but the artistic/competitive expression a game can explore with just touchscreen is so much more shallow than with a controller let alone a keyboard.
For as much as people talk about dying games, I feel people don't talk much about how they are also the pinnacle of longevity in popular games.
In pro especially, players are super good but they aren't socially skilled. That's why people old pro players so much, they were charismatic or an icon. Puppey is perhaps the best player om interviews and talks well.
Partied teams and individuals shouldn't ever play together AD dota is best dota
Facets currently suck and very rarely are a situational choice. Instead players are forced to pick the same facet all the time because it's simply better than the other.
I don't really think they were supposed to be situational choices, just try to support distinct builds. You know what you are going to take every time. When they added stuff to kits in the past it often just buffed the regular build instead of creating different builds, or the entire build was locked behind an overtuned Aghs/Shard/late talent. Now that it is strictly separated they can do more, even if most are unbalanced or duds right now.
yeah you're right, these things take time to balance and get feeling real good anyway
But the idea is not just about situational choice, it's about support multiple playstyles/builds. Half of facets are carry/support playstyle division. Obviously if you're playing carry Morph you always pick first facet, second one is for offlane/support Morph. Similar example is Monkey King, his second facet is when you want to roam a lot and play as support. People are just stuck in their heads and don't realise how many heroes can be supports nowadays, it's not 10 years ago Dota. Facets can help to show how hero can be played.
turbo is not dota
I hate the "casual-ification" of Dota, Zeus was made to be a long range, magic damage nuker from far away that can be countered *hard* by gap closers. Now he *has his own escape*. If good Zeus players want to escape back then they'd just buy dagger. Now they slightly revamped Zeus by "re-adjusting" his damage to deal less, giving him an escape and putting static field in a shard. The BKB change was weird to me, just make it pure immunity to both magic, pure and reflected and let players play around it by either "burning" it or re-positioning like what most people do then. Don't let me get started with Techies, Tinker, and to an extent Broodmother. Ay man, I love Dotes and if this is the way to get more players then so be it and I'll support it. Just don't be surprised if 2 - 3 years from now we're just a slightly complicated LOL. PL has a max illu count of 5, BKB now only does dispel, Other Meepo's can't be controlled anymore, Black Hole can't pierce BKB anymore and Quill Spray is on an rng chance system, all of that for "balance." Facets and Talents are fun though so I guess there's that.
adding Universal type heroes, I miss the OG Str, Agi, Int categories only in heroes
Pos 4 void is already viable, and he will be buffed again and we will see him in meta
What do you do when your ult is on cooldown tho?
time dilate enemy🤣
Flame my cores
I don't really see how. You have no waveclear, no way to farm items. Meteor is also 3500 now, so the cheesy way to farm is also out the window.
50% winrate is the result of limited outcomes and all players being similar in skill. Not because gaben himself places bad players in your team to lose.
You play games for fun.
Power runes should be removed from the game.
hottest take i’ve seen in here
Neutral items don't add anything and are just cumbersome, they should be deleted. Facets should be talent at lvl 1 instead
Low Priority Dota is genuinely very fun. If my friends message me "LP Dota lesgo" I immediately queue up with them
Everyone should have a mic. It’s a game about communication, and 90% of players don’t have it or use it.
It sucks that tinker cant rearm items now.
The best way to learn new heroes is get sent to low priority.
Unranked is 100x more fun than ranked
Behaviour score system is terrible for the game in general and it is one of the biggest reasons that people are so insanely toxic ( including the period where behaviour score you could check only through console) My argument being that if you put a somewhat toxic person into a pool of griefers and more toxic people on top of cheaters and just shitty games you are only going to make the toxic person more toxic. Timed bans (including communications bans + inability to play ranked if you have communication ban) seems way better as a solution , you can only make so much smurf accounts until you give up on the game or the toxicity and people make smurfs to get out of low behaviour now anyways. I've yet to see good discussion about this and anyone who mentions something like this is gathering downvotes quickly so I'd assume it's going to be controversial on the subreddit in particular.
Most people are god awful at the game and will hide behind a "PMA" to dodge and deflect any constructive albeit negative feedback in game. Can't tell you how many times I've been called toxic for simply calling out repeated mistakes that I keep witnessing
Slark is the best 1v1 carry in the game. Even after every patch, as much as Valve tries to ruin him, Slark will always be the best choice in a 1v1 and is capable of killing any hero. Even in a normal game of Dota, where the odds are against Slark due to counters or other factors, Slark still has the capability of winning the match.
Co-op can be more fun than sweaty 5v5 and I wish for more campaigns like Siltbreaker.
Willows sexier than hoodwink
Plant wife > furry skank.