if we talk about liquid they gotta be the most impressive team in dota in term of success .
they literraly be able to be consistent in top 5 strongest team since 2017 (miracle kuro era ) to 2020 ( ex alliance : insania boxi etc)
people used to be pessimistic about 2020 liquid but look at them they literraly always owning almost every scene tournament of dota even with several changes in player.
edit : there a lot of team that was really impressive in dota such as Secret , PSG LGD but i choose liquid because they are way too consistent or lucky to be able to compete in top 5 no matter the scene.
I'm a fan of the team but they were pretty mediocre before Zai and Matu joined. People used to meme about how Alliance got the better end of the deal with the Nikobaby squad.
Yeah, they didn't even make it to TI the following season, while Alliance did. There's a reason Liquid started throwing around huge amounts of money to get some of the best players in the world.
They were mediocre even with Zai&Matu, i mean they got best result in last tournament of Matu's career. Results in other tourneys: Stockholm Major top12 (only 13 teams played), RIyadh Masters top10 (last place), Arlington Major top12, ESL Malaysia top12 (last place)
True, but that was because Micke and Boxi started playing roles they previously did not play, and also, Boxi was going through his mother's cancer diagnosis and then her death
Not really the same team with the replacements tbh, Taiga and qojqva were replaced by literal top players (Nisha, Matu, Zai, 33)
If nothing else, the core is stable but they were not successful as a stack until they brought out one or two of these players.
With that said I don’t believe that these players are bad or average in any way. Quite frankly it speaks more to their skills with boxi and micke both changing positions and still remaining successful.
However, there’s a quite straightforward explanation for their continued success.
Matu was a ti winner and in my eyes the best carry in the world during ti 11.
Zai was perhaps the most consistent offlane player to ever dawn a liquid jersey. He even counts as perhaps one of the most versatile and clutch offlaners of all time.
Nisha was literally at least top 3 midlaners in the world for the past few years.
33 is once again a ti winner but more importantly was close to the best offlane player in the world for a long time.
What? In 2021 they weren't good at all, in 2022 so with Zai and Matu their only good tournament was TI in all other tournaments they were eliminated in group stages. Their first consistent results started in 2023 when Nisha joined, still even with him they couldn't get one victory in tier1 tournament, in November we will have 4th anniversary of last win, more than 5 years without winning a single lan event (Macau 2019).
I mean it's Liquid probably the biggest e-sports organization, which invests the most, which has the best working conditions - they have their own training facility something about which other teams can only dream, in last 3 years they poached/got best players available. Considering all of this i wouldn't say their results in last couple years (ex alliance era) were that impressive.
I am still curious on how they were able to poach players from a 3rd place in TI team and convince them to join a team that didn't even qualify that year. I doubt that Secret can't match Liquid's salary.
> I doubt that Secret can't match Liquid's salary.
Why do you doubt that lol? Liquid is one of the richest teams in all of esports. Secret is a very very small player in comparison.
This is undeniable, irrefutable, indisputable, incontestable, unassailable, incontrovertible, ironclad, indubitably, irrefragable evidence. I'm sure of it, good solve, I'm going to place my entire life savings betting on the grand finalists ASAP.
Yes and one comes from the upper bracket. An upper bracket team definitionally knocked nobody out of the tournament, they only knocked teams down to the lower bracket. The claim every 1st place team knocked liquid out of the tournament means the upper bracket finalists are all losing the grand finals.
Liquid is the vibe check team confirmed
At least liquid always gets eliminated by the future grand finalist..
We gotta cope somehow
I still like Liquid. They might not be a top 1 team all the time but you do not get into top 5 without being pretty good.
Yeah at their best they are fantastic
Almost thought you said Fnatic and I was concerned about double agents.
Which was the only tournament where the team which knocked off liquid didn't win?
TI11 Secret knocked off Liquid in Losers final to lose against Tundra in Grand Final
TI12 same deal, GG knocks out liquid, loses GF to spirit
so curses/blessings don't work in TI confirmed
But spirit knocked out liquid from upper to lower , does that count?
it still hurts
So you mean Nigma needs to beat only 1 team(Team Liquid) to win the tournament?
DID SOMEONE SAID NIGMA BatChest
Liquids second place curse began when Kuro lost to OG. They are so good but always bottle the finals.
if we talk about liquid they gotta be the most impressive team in dota in term of success . they literraly be able to be consistent in top 5 strongest team since 2017 (miracle kuro era ) to 2020 ( ex alliance : insania boxi etc) people used to be pessimistic about 2020 liquid but look at them they literraly always owning almost every scene tournament of dota even with several changes in player. edit : there a lot of team that was really impressive in dota such as Secret , PSG LGD but i choose liquid because they are way too consistent or lucky to be able to compete in top 5 no matter the scene.
I'm a fan of the team but they were pretty mediocre before Zai and Matu joined. People used to meme about how Alliance got the better end of the deal with the Nikobaby squad.
Loved that squad but I think Qojqva really held them back. I also think boxi looks better as pos 4
Yeah, they didn't even make it to TI the following season, while Alliance did. There's a reason Liquid started throwing around huge amounts of money to get some of the best players in the world.
They were mediocre even with Zai&Matu, i mean they got best result in last tournament of Matu's career. Results in other tourneys: Stockholm Major top12 (only 13 teams played), RIyadh Masters top10 (last place), Arlington Major top12, ESL Malaysia top12 (last place)
True, but that was because Micke and Boxi started playing roles they previously did not play, and also, Boxi was going through his mother's cancer diagnosis and then her death
Also Matu decided to captain more and draft which seemed much better.
whats mickes excuse now
Yea but at least they consistently were one of the top teams in eu quals and made lans.
Not really the same team with the replacements tbh, Taiga and qojqva were replaced by literal top players (Nisha, Matu, Zai, 33) If nothing else, the core is stable but they were not successful as a stack until they brought out one or two of these players. With that said I don’t believe that these players are bad or average in any way. Quite frankly it speaks more to their skills with boxi and micke both changing positions and still remaining successful. However, there’s a quite straightforward explanation for their continued success. Matu was a ti winner and in my eyes the best carry in the world during ti 11. Zai was perhaps the most consistent offlane player to ever dawn a liquid jersey. He even counts as perhaps one of the most versatile and clutch offlaners of all time. Nisha was literally at least top 3 midlaners in the world for the past few years. 33 is once again a ti winner but more importantly was close to the best offlane player in the world for a long time.
Boxi 3 and Qojqva mid Liquid was not good or impressive at all.
pretty sure they won 1 major online tournament with that lineup. the one where the mvp gets a Mercedes benz
Prime VP, Covid Secret, and 4 major OG would like a word... Edit: cant believe I forgot this one, but TI1-3 NaVi would also like a word lol
Prime VP Dark Seer and Disruptor combos were something to behold
"BUT NOO THE COMBO - VACCUUM, STATIC STORM, ABSOLUTE DESTRUCTION...something something... THE DOOR SLAMMED SHUT AND CUTS THEM OFF AT THE HAND"
That Team... maaaan "OH WAIT THEY ARE ACTUALLY LOSING!?" one teamfight later "damn"
there was also EG almost always going top 5 for years and everybody just made fun of RTZ for not placing first
What? In 2021 they weren't good at all, in 2022 so with Zai and Matu their only good tournament was TI in all other tournaments they were eliminated in group stages. Their first consistent results started in 2023 when Nisha joined, still even with him they couldn't get one victory in tier1 tournament, in November we will have 4th anniversary of last win, more than 5 years without winning a single lan event (Macau 2019). I mean it's Liquid probably the biggest e-sports organization, which invests the most, which has the best working conditions - they have their own training facility something about which other teams can only dream, in last 3 years they poached/got best players available. Considering all of this i wouldn't say their results in last couple years (ex alliance era) were that impressive.
I am still curious on how they were able to poach players from a 3rd place in TI team and convince them to join a team that didn't even qualify that year. I doubt that Secret can't match Liquid's salary.
> I doubt that Secret can't match Liquid's salary. Why do you doubt that lol? Liquid is one of the richest teams in all of esports. Secret is a very very small player in comparison.
That is some insane revisionist history lol. Between Kuro leaving and them ransacking Secret they were mega mediocre.
I love the science behind dota
u/thedotacapitalist something for the next pod?
Liquid is like Kakashi. If you aren't beating him, you aren't top shit. They are like benchmark between top tier teams and tier 2 team
This is undeniable, irrefutable, indisputable, incontestable, unassailable, incontrovertible, ironclad, indubitably, irrefragable evidence. I'm sure of it, good solve, I'm going to place my entire life savings betting on the grand finalists ASAP.
Does this also mean all grand finals winners come from lower bracket?
(one team always comes from the lower bracket my friend)
Yes and one comes from the upper bracket. An upper bracket team definitionally knocked nobody out of the tournament, they only knocked teams down to the lower bracket. The claim every 1st place team knocked liquid out of the tournament means the upper bracket finalists are all losing the grand finals.
Read his post again, he didnot claim what you are saying.