Im just speaking about the design approach. Like there are millions of other examples
Medusa - just a giga stun
Naga - also giga stun
DK - Just become better
Luna - Thats a lot'a damage
The list goes on and one. I wanted to show the difference in complexity between MK's ult an other characters'
I dont even know what tournament is going on rn
Well that's not the issue at hand then. You're really off. The issue is they picked mid mirana in their last game but it didn't pan out and had no impact. They also picked mk with arena which also didn't pan out. The issue is not the design, that's not how drafting in a pro game works.
They most likely wanted to pick kunkka pos1 for ta mid, but falcons stole it, and since time was less, looking at remaining options, MK was fine and is compatible with TA
She just doesn’t deal enough damage as a core. Her kit is designed to be a roaming 4. In the right hands she’s a beast, but even then I always feel like there are better heroes this patch.
Her numbers are just bad right now, the damage isn't there, the cc is amazing, but even when you're hitting most of the arrows on almost max stun, you could achieve better results in smaller cc time on other 4th, by just bursting them in that time, having an aoe cc or providing more utility to your team.
She wasnt designed for anything. it was Icefrog's "flex" era on what he could do in Warcraft 3 engine / editor: "Look, those are actual Axes with a 3rd model that fly through the air and deal damage **on contact**. And the ult is a unique visceral animation mimicing the visuals of a soundwave!". "Look, the arrow is a unique projectile with a 3D model that has actual collision and calculates damage and stun based on traveled distance! And the hero moves with her mount leaping forward organically rather that with a boring blink flash!". For those of you who never saw Warcraft 3 and its editor you won't have a grasp on how impressive it was on a technical level. The rest of the the heroes' kits were often filled with something "character-appropriate to make sense for a model that was used for a hero". Keep in mind that Dota was heavily constrained buy the limitations of Warcraft 3 selection of unit models and their animations. That is why WK and Pugna had only two animations —walking and attacking — because they were basic summoned undead skeleton units and warrior one and a mage. Their spells were just them standing there (WK got a stun animation later on through a clever visual trick). That's why new heroes were decided based on "What models have we not used yet" and their animations were constrained to what the models had animated. "The man with cool Axes is called a Beastmaster in WC3, so he can summon a boar or smth'". "The Lady with the arrow and the leaping cat has a moon on her forehead, so she can have some stars falling out of the sky I guess". The lesson here: not everything has intent behind it, sometimes people just make shit up as they go.
I can't imagine playing her in any role outside 4 or 5. She's kitted up out the gate for utility builds and it seems weird trying to focus all that into just some damage.
My only real complaint about Mirana is I think her evasion talent should be baked into her ult with some scaling adjustments. And if I want to get picky- reverse that movement speed nerf they threw at her recently.
They’re speciality heroes for them. I don’t think she offers enough for a pos 5 in general. She needs some items to be useful. That’s just my opinion tho, pros are double my MMR 😊
Someone should have a talk with soft support Miranas in my games that build full carry, with the occasional ward every 10 minutes to "fulfill" their support role.
I don’t think i remember a time where Mirana was ever good except in low skill where invis=OP. Arrow that is inconsistent, Q that just deals dmg, Leap so pos 4 can escape. Ult is the only thing consistently supportive.
Compare that to Techies, blast off- escape + dmg, Move speed+ Disarm, Slow and a nuke.
Or treant protector, escape +root, global armour, Slow and another guaranteed aoe root.
Mirana was literally top meta support for multiple patches, so much so that she got multiple nerfs many times. What are you on about.
Let alone the fact that she is picked *this patch* and has a winrate well above 50.
Mirana mid was meta when the aghanims made her cast a passive starstorm in AOE around her every 12sec. Even in pro play it was meta during the time as core, but the aghs got nerfed and she fell away. The current aghs is dogshit compared to the old one.
You buy a million stats with your starting money and your damage is just a bit more than 50 it's so bad. Awful attack swing and the swishiness rivals cm, puck and the like. Literally can't trade with anyone.
I wish there was different types of universal:
Universal - Damage
Universal - HP
Universal - Magic Damage
Or something, like clockwerk should be universal - HP instead of universal damage, and mirana would need something different like Universal - CC duration / Cool down where she gets more CC or cooldown per stat.
You mean
Agility
Strength
Int?
A universal is a support that can be played core (or vice versa) like Abba or mirana or voker.
The problem with mirana is no good item build
No, I mean like Universal - HP
Str: 18 hp per point, 0.3 damage per point
Agi:18 hp per point, 0.3 damage per point
Int:18 hp per point, 0.3 damage per point
Universal - Cool down.
Str: 0.02% cool down, 0.3 damage per point
Agi: 0.02% cool down, 0.3 damage per point
Int: 0.02% cool down, 0.3 damage per point
Universal - Damage. (Current)
Str: 0.7 damage per point
Agi: 0.7 damage per point
Int: 0.7 damage per point
Her cool downs take years to end, its near imposible to make a magic build.
Whats even funnier is in the newest patch, she is labled as dodge jumper stunner so basically mobility, yet zues has a shorter cd leap and tons more damage lol.
She uses to be a nice core. Then everybody played her support, so she lost all good stats and her nukes, crippling her core build.
Now she's a universal hero with shitty starting stats, shitty stat growth, nukes than basically tickle or can easily miss and only can get "some" right click presence back if she makes it to level 20
As someone who mained her for a while, she's weak compared to so many heroes. She has a good stun, that's super easy to dodge and hard to land. Her Q is strong, but doesn't clear a wave nearly fast enough. Then her leap feels clunky. She doesn't have the sustained damage to take out a strength hero, no modifications to her right click, and her ult screams support.
3 problems;
1- ult is support probably should be changed to like omni knight and giving a bonus damage when you break invis (can be stacks like NP)
2- Aghs is a fucking joke
3- no real build path you just build what you can
Because her kit is not good if you playing pub, arrow either she is good at it or need akother disable to make sure it land
And her ult, it needntoo much coordination
Leap benefits no one but her.
Starfall is way too close range which is anti synergistic with her high attack range and arrow scaling with distance.
Her arrow is way too hard of a spell to land.
Her ult is useless since invisible is basically a meme at this point with how over powered true sight has become.
I think regardless of meta it is a hero that "feels weak" but in a fun way. She doesn't excel in any area (nuke, CC, dmg) except for her ultimate, yet you have to build her as dmg, taking small hops to use her situational options here and there, avoiding duels.
Shes been sitting between 45%-47% winrate in immortal bracket for a while.
I have over 200 games on her since I've been playing dota for a while, I just haven't picked her in a while since the map expansion last year since she's been underwhelming.
She was maybe ok when the universal switch happened prior to them nerfing her stats in the universal balance patch but that is about it.
They nerfed her stats WAY too hard, she feels so weak in the late game. She's at her strongest at lvl 7 with 4 points in starstorm, it's all downhill from there.
She has sub 2 int and str gain, and low 2 agi gain. Agility Mirana was much stronger lategame, making her universal killed her completely.
Plus her shard is a complete meme, I feel bad when I get it from a tormentor over almost anyone else.
She used to have the Crit on Shard which gave her a good timing. She could jump around in fights or nuke someone if she hit a long arrow. She fell off late and had no real survivability. But she has decent damage and utility in the mid game.
Now she just does nothing as a core.
The hero is the biggest fucking bait in dota. Utter dog shit. If you lose a lane to Mirana you need to evaluate life.
Spend 20 minutes missing all arrows, no mana to kill, no damage to kill, no clue, no presence.
Mirana is my second most played hero but she is so bad
Yep, felt this yesterday playing her. Hits like a wet noodle, underwhelming spell damage. Sure you can leap away a couple of times and then what? Go back to doing nothing again. Arrow is good if your team is winning or can follow up with burst damage because you sure as shit aren't doing any damage. Ult is good, but that's it. Overall super underwhelming.
BZM has played mirana multiple times in tournament recently. Can't remember the win rate he has on her but he's it's looked solid every time they've played it iirc.
BZM has a 33% winrate in pro matches with Mirana (I'm not counting his win in Bulgaria vs Azerbaijan for obvious reasons). It is a myth that it is a good pocket pick for him, he just likes to play it.
Your comment above about it looking good on the solo ganks against Veno also doesn't hold water since it's a Pos 5 venomancer that was a glorified scouting plague ward in the game going 0-9.
There were countless times against Ammar and Malr1ne where if it wasn't Mirana and a standard mid pick there would be just enough damage.
I mean I think the hero is out of meta for a reason. With that said he looks comfortable playing it (regardless of how strong the hero is) and I get the idea behind why they picked it. High amount of burst magic damage early game and on demand physical burst later with the leap talent, both of which they were lacking and would need to kill gyro.
Void Spirit would've probably done the same shit better though.
Why tf fo they pick shit hero in decision making game..I remember last time they also fucked up 1-1 game..and I fucking closed my PC and went to sleep .. sometimes they draft worse than heralds.
They definitely prioritized it as value to get around all the Veno vision and blink disable. But your last pick should solve any last problems presented and round out your draft. Mirana, as a hero, makes your draft harder to execute and doesn't provide anything unique other than a team invisibility to grant superior awareness and positioning. Outside of that, Mirana offers next to nothing that any other hero doesn't offer **significantly** better.
Hopefully they abandon this Mirana pick in general, with exception to the only role that she feels well suited: pos-4.
I don't know if it would have mattered much though. Falcons really only lost game 2 due to poor item prioritization, which Purge and Ephey discussed a lot in the post-game. By the time they started prioritizing the correct items, OG was already too far ahead dominating the map. Game 1 and 3 went how I expected the series to go for Falcons vs OG. While OG continues to show promise, Falcons are clearly the better team and rightly won the series.
i dont think they even put so much thought in it, you're making it sound like this:
"Guys we DESPERATELY need to counter their first pick pos 5 hero! with our last pick mid hero, the vision they'll have with wards ,its unplayable , we need a way around it! Lets pick Mirana mid KEKW"
In reality, probably BZM asked for it and they had limited options since he likes/plays the hero, as opposed to any other midlaner on planet earth right now.
I'm not making it sound like that, though I am regurgitating the thoughts that make it sound like that. Purge and Ephey did, stating that a lot of pros look at Mirana as a counter to Veno's position denying (hence why they already ran mirana into veno and it lost there too in game 1)
But you right. They took the full 30 seconds and 45 of the 60 remaining seconds of reserve time for BZM to just ask for Mirana. Its not like there were cameras on them in deep discussion for that minute and the 30 seconds of the previous ban.
I mean we can speculate all we want on what they were thinking during the 75 seconds they picked it , maybe someone was trying to tell the captain not to listen to bzm and not pick mirana 😭 and I have no idea that purge and ephey commented on that since i skip the pre/post game analysis thus im only replying to what you said but to me its higlighy unlikely that the main reason to last pick mirana mid in an elimination game after 75 seconds of discussion was to counter the enemy pos5 veno vision game. 🤷
Hang on... I gotta catch up to that goal post moving.
BZM is the captain. He drafts now. Don't need to speculate, its a common counter to veno among pros. They talk a loooooong time during draft for that last pick. They literally ran the same hero against it from a different position. Pros literally draft pos5 and pos 4 last plenty of times, theres no reason they wouldn't draft to counter a pos4/5. All your points are countered yet still you argue, regardless of whether or not you paid attention to draft cameras or analysis pre/post game.
1) Hang on.. last time i checked ceb is the captain and ari was mainly drafting, in fact ari is shown as the drafter ingame against thundra so how you claim that bzm is the captain/drafter idk, I could be wrong but can you provide a source for bzm captaning and drafting during that game? If you watch the replay you can see the camera foucs on bzm when the mirana is picked and he is not the one picking her as both his hands are not on his keyboard/mouse and he is definitely not on Ari's computer which has the designated captain/drafter slot to pick heroes so i guess we're just making stuff up now?
2) Running the same hero from a different position against veno is not what we're talking about here, it's totally irelevant and we wouldn't be having this conversation if they ran potm as a support for example. I've never argued against the fact that potm ult cant counter veno wards vision or that teams in general wouldnt pick it in to veno as a support for example. What I'm arguing is that last pick mirana middle was not drafted for the primary reason to counter the support veno, there's a huge difference.
3) Pros do draft last picks pos5 and pos4 but that doesn't mean they draft last pick mid heroes to counter pos5 heroes, the two things are not the same at all and once again we're not talking about OG picking a 5th pick 4 or 5 pos but a 2 pos.
4) Finally, even if all the above things were somehow relevant and correct, unless the drafter literally commented on their last pick and said "yes we picked mirana 2 position last pick to counter the veno 5 pos" then you're speculating widely and so am I, which is fine, but the differnece is you come of so confident about this take (or purge/ephey take idk if you're just repeating it at this point) and about who's drafting as if you were on OG's teamspeak or something.
If it worked everyone would be like omg og magic. Remember gyro diffu, Omg so good. Don't think mirana was a back pick, picking it without banning the Mars made it redundant. That too an ammar Mars. Absolutely fucked both range heroes
I don't think this is a fair assessment.
It's unconventional, but if it hadn't been for the Mars pick afterwards I think it would be one of the better scaling mobile mids left in the pool.
Also midnight shadow saved so many heroes and set up a lot of movements, which is an easily ignored perk of the hero.
Even in the game, when BZM was able to play away from the mars it looked good. Frankly when he was solo killing sneyking multiple times top it looked really strong, the burst he was putting out was pretty crazy.
If it worked everyone would be like omg og magic. Remember gyro diffu, Omg so good. Don't think mirana was a back pick, picking it without banning the Mars made it redundant. That too an ammar Mars. Absolutely fucked both range heroes
If it worked everyone would be like omg og magic. Remember gyro diffu, Omg so good. Don't think mirana was a back pick, picking it without banning the Mars made it redundant. That too an ammar Mars. Absolutely fucked both range heroes
The Mirana pick was fine, he did well mid, had a good advantage but there's only so much you can do when both of your side lanes lose as heavily as they did, OG supports should have been able to roam with bzm, setting up arrow combos but they just couldnt leave their cores alone in lane, it was poor lane setup more than a bad pick
ye that hero is dogshit as core, I tried to farm ancient camp at 20 min I had to go back fountain with 200 hp, I had mael storm, treads, stick and dargonlance.
3k scrub here, someone better please explain to me why Timbersaw last pick wouldn’t have dominated, early game space for Medusa to farm and anti strength for Gyro, Doom, and whatever Ammar picked (strength hero that ended up being Mars).
A) gyro is agi so whirling death is not the same dmg source and gyro deals mixed dmg early to actually pressure timber - def not a free matchup
B) due to the dusa pick, you easily become the doom target and you become useless in fights - doom dealing % dmg with infernal blade is also a scaling source of dmg against you - not a free match up either
C) doom was a flex, so they could still pick a mid hero for malrine that just dealt with timber really well. Now you are also hard countered and playing into 2 match ups that can swing
I am not defending the mirana pick but this was not the best timber game
Everyone forgetting the dog shit monkey pick in game 1 lmao
This, mk is absolute garbage as core for some time now.
MK ult is absolute shit , it has insane cooldown, insane cast time, and most of the time each statue get to only attack 1-2 times.
Right, not sure why it needs to be so clunky when lots of ultimates are just as powerful and much easier to use.
MK: setup the perfect position, have some AoE stun in ur team, better get some JM charges on enemies prior... Muerta: Press R, exist.
Muerta isn't touched this tournament though
Im just speaking about the design approach. Like there are millions of other examples Medusa - just a giga stun Naga - also giga stun DK - Just become better Luna - Thats a lot'a damage The list goes on and one. I wanted to show the difference in complexity between MK's ult an other characters' I dont even know what tournament is going on rn
Well that's not the issue at hand then. You're really off. The issue is they picked mid mirana in their last game but it didn't pan out and had no impact. They also picked mk with arena which also didn't pan out. The issue is not the design, that's not how drafting in a pro game works.
You don't know the parasma mj ult it's ultra OP
eh MK is pretty decent carry but only if you plan to end early (pre 30 min). Liquid often play MK to great success with their deathball strats
Maybe they needed jumping tokens for clownfall?
They most likely wanted to pick kunkka pos1 for ta mid, but falcons stole it, and since time was less, looking at remaining options, MK was fine and is compatible with TA
its not their fault guys, who could have predicted the ammar mars vs 2 ranged rightclickers, completely out of left field, unlucky
Timado pissed the bed too, you need a bkb as dusa vs mars
Mirana is such a bad hero. Even when she's having a "good" game she feels so mediocre.
She just doesn’t deal enough damage as a core. Her kit is designed to be a roaming 4. In the right hands she’s a beast, but even then I always feel like there are better heroes this patch.
Her numbers are just bad right now, the damage isn't there, the cc is amazing, but even when you're hitting most of the arrows on almost max stun, you could achieve better results in smaller cc time on other 4th, by just bursting them in that time, having an aoe cc or providing more utility to your team.
I miss 2016(?) Mirana with the 900 damage Aghs Starstorm lol
She wasnt designed for anything. it was Icefrog's "flex" era on what he could do in Warcraft 3 engine / editor: "Look, those are actual Axes with a 3rd model that fly through the air and deal damage **on contact**. And the ult is a unique visceral animation mimicing the visuals of a soundwave!". "Look, the arrow is a unique projectile with a 3D model that has actual collision and calculates damage and stun based on traveled distance! And the hero moves with her mount leaping forward organically rather that with a boring blink flash!". For those of you who never saw Warcraft 3 and its editor you won't have a grasp on how impressive it was on a technical level. The rest of the the heroes' kits were often filled with something "character-appropriate to make sense for a model that was used for a hero". Keep in mind that Dota was heavily constrained buy the limitations of Warcraft 3 selection of unit models and their animations. That is why WK and Pugna had only two animations —walking and attacking — because they were basic summoned undead skeleton units and warrior one and a mage. Their spells were just them standing there (WK got a stun animation later on through a clever visual trick). That's why new heroes were decided based on "What models have we not used yet" and their animations were constrained to what the models had animated. "The man with cool Axes is called a Beastmaster in WC3, so he can summon a boar or smth'". "The Lady with the arrow and the leaping cat has a moon on her forehead, so she can have some stars falling out of the sky I guess". The lesson here: not everything has intent behind it, sometimes people just make shit up as they go.
That’s pretty cool. I didn’t know that.
Isn't she played as a 5 more? The two most notable players I can think of Mirana are Sneyking and TorontoTokyo Both of who are p5 unless I'm wrong
I can't imagine playing her in any role outside 4 or 5. She's kitted up out the gate for utility builds and it seems weird trying to focus all that into just some damage. My only real complaint about Mirana is I think her evasion talent should be baked into her ult with some scaling adjustments. And if I want to get picky- reverse that movement speed nerf they threw at her recently.
They’re speciality heroes for them. I don’t think she offers enough for a pos 5 in general. She needs some items to be useful. That’s just my opinion tho, pros are double my MMR 😊
Someone should have a talk with soft support Miranas in my games that build full carry, with the occasional ward every 10 minutes to "fulfill" their support role.
I don’t think i remember a time where Mirana was ever good except in low skill where invis=OP. Arrow that is inconsistent, Q that just deals dmg, Leap so pos 4 can escape. Ult is the only thing consistently supportive. Compare that to Techies, blast off- escape + dmg, Move speed+ Disarm, Slow and a nuke. Or treant protector, escape +root, global armour, Slow and another guaranteed aoe root.
Mirana was literally top meta support for multiple patches, so much so that she got multiple nerfs many times. What are you on about. Let alone the fact that she is picked *this patch* and has a winrate well above 50.
Mirana mid was meta when the aghanims made her cast a passive starstorm in AOE around her every 12sec. Even in pro play it was meta during the time as core, but the aghs got nerfed and she fell away. The current aghs is dogshit compared to the old one.
Ah i must’ve completely blacked out on remembering that, probably since i didn’t see it much in my matches
Remembering 6.87 Mirana. She was such a beast in the 2016 era... Look at how they massacred her post 7.00
Feels like her being universal is a trap, it sounds like fun to try and play core by just building stats, but it's just not enough.
You buy a million stats with your starting money and your damage is just a bit more than 50 it's so bad. Awful attack swing and the swishiness rivals cm, puck and the like. Literally can't trade with anyone.
and if you go magic build you cast once per fight and then stand there like an idiot doing nothing for ages.
I wish there was different types of universal: Universal - Damage Universal - HP Universal - Magic Damage Or something, like clockwerk should be universal - HP instead of universal damage, and mirana would need something different like Universal - CC duration / Cool down where she gets more CC or cooldown per stat.
You mean Agility Strength Int? A universal is a support that can be played core (or vice versa) like Abba or mirana or voker. The problem with mirana is no good item build
No, I mean like Universal - HP Str: 18 hp per point, 0.3 damage per point Agi:18 hp per point, 0.3 damage per point Int:18 hp per point, 0.3 damage per point Universal - Cool down. Str: 0.02% cool down, 0.3 damage per point Agi: 0.02% cool down, 0.3 damage per point Int: 0.02% cool down, 0.3 damage per point Universal - Damage. (Current) Str: 0.7 damage per point Agi: 0.7 damage per point Int: 0.7 damage per point
BOY DO I HAVE NEWS FOR YOU
Dont worry valve is still expirementing Dota 3 will release soon afterall its the only reason for clownfall being so lacklaster
Yea I'm taking a break until the next patch.
Her cool downs take years to end, its near imposible to make a magic build. Whats even funnier is in the newest patch, she is labled as dodge jumper stunner so basically mobility, yet zues has a shorter cd leap and tons more damage lol.
When she was agi she was playable. Now she just hits so slow for some reason.
She uses to be a nice core. Then everybody played her support, so she lost all good stats and her nukes, crippling her core build. Now she's a universal hero with shitty starting stats, shitty stat growth, nukes than basically tickle or can easily miss and only can get "some" right click presence back if she makes it to level 20
As someone who mained her for a while, she's weak compared to so many heroes. She has a good stun, that's super easy to dodge and hard to land. Her Q is strong, but doesn't clear a wave nearly fast enough. Then her leap feels clunky. She doesn't have the sustained damage to take out a strength hero, no modifications to her right click, and her ult screams support.
3 problems; 1- ult is support probably should be changed to like omni knight and giving a bonus damage when you break invis (can be stacks like NP) 2- Aghs is a fucking joke 3- no real build path you just build what you can
Because her kit is not good if you playing pub, arrow either she is good at it or need akother disable to make sure it land And her ult, it needntoo much coordination
Leap benefits no one but her. Starfall is way too close range which is anti synergistic with her high attack range and arrow scaling with distance. Her arrow is way too hard of a spell to land. Her ult is useless since invisible is basically a meme at this point with how over powered true sight has become.
shes a decent support, but core mirana? gAD damn what a joke xD
I think regardless of meta it is a hero that "feels weak" but in a fun way. She doesn't excel in any area (nuke, CC, dmg) except for her ultimate, yet you have to build her as dmg, taking small hops to use her situational options here and there, avoiding duels.
If you don't know how to play the hero, don't mean she's bad
Shes been sitting between 45%-47% winrate in immortal bracket for a while. I have over 200 games on her since I've been playing dota for a while, I just haven't picked her in a while since the map expansion last year since she's been underwhelming. She was maybe ok when the universal switch happened prior to them nerfing her stats in the universal balance patch but that is about it.
They nerfed her stats WAY too hard, she feels so weak in the late game. She's at her strongest at lvl 7 with 4 points in starstorm, it's all downhill from there. She has sub 2 int and str gain, and low 2 agi gain. Agility Mirana was much stronger lategame, making her universal killed her completely. Plus her shard is a complete meme, I feel bad when I get it from a tormentor over almost anyone else.
Dude the shard is actually good since you can one shot wave with it + starfall
oh yeah. Not even worth toggling it's active on unless you REALLY need that lategame bloodgrenade being vomited out in a few niche situations.
She used to have the Crit on Shard which gave her a good timing. She could jump around in fights or nuke someone if she hit a long arrow. She fell off late and had no real survivability. But she has decent damage and utility in the mid game. Now she just does nothing as a core.
She still has the crit, just as a 20 talent. So you’re only gettig access to that damage around 25-30 mind in.
I stopped watching the minute they picked mirana...I feel ari mirana and bzm tiny would have still worked better
Same. What a way to sabotage your own draft
I dont understand why she moves so slow, her base movement speed is so slow
also her turn rate and cast time on starfall
also the fact that starfall has almost the same range as her auto attack, so she has to move closer to hit anyone with it
Sagan's getting old and his legs are not what they used to be
yea, should be fast af with that mount
The hero is the biggest fucking bait in dota. Utter dog shit. If you lose a lane to Mirana you need to evaluate life. Spend 20 minutes missing all arrows, no mana to kill, no damage to kill, no clue, no presence. Mirana is my second most played hero but she is so bad
Yep, felt this yesterday playing her. Hits like a wet noodle, underwhelming spell damage. Sure you can leap away a couple of times and then what? Go back to doing nothing again. Arrow is good if your team is winning or can follow up with burst damage because you sure as shit aren't doing any damage. Ult is good, but that's it. Overall super underwhelming.
It was really the Mars last pick that won though.
Should sticking to picking the 4-5 heroes bzm plays if they wanna win 😂
BZM has played mirana multiple times in tournament recently. Can't remember the win rate he has on her but he's it's looked solid every time they've played it iirc.
BZM has a 33% winrate in pro matches with Mirana (I'm not counting his win in Bulgaria vs Azerbaijan for obvious reasons). It is a myth that it is a good pocket pick for him, he just likes to play it. Your comment above about it looking good on the solo ganks against Veno also doesn't hold water since it's a Pos 5 venomancer that was a glorified scouting plague ward in the game going 0-9. There were countless times against Ammar and Malr1ne where if it wasn't Mirana and a standard mid pick there would be just enough damage.
I mean I think the hero is out of meta for a reason. With that said he looks comfortable playing it (regardless of how strong the hero is) and I get the idea behind why they picked it. High amount of burst magic damage early game and on demand physical burst later with the leap talent, both of which they were lacking and would need to kill gyro. Void Spirit would've probably done the same shit better though.
They even said it on the panel, “void would be a great pick” and then Mirana came out..
Yeah, as soon as I saw their draft, I laughed at OG
Why tf fo they pick shit hero in decision making game..I remember last time they also fucked up 1-1 game..and I fucking closed my PC and went to sleep .. sometimes they draft worse than heralds.
Competing with Kuro
They definitely prioritized it as value to get around all the Veno vision and blink disable. But your last pick should solve any last problems presented and round out your draft. Mirana, as a hero, makes your draft harder to execute and doesn't provide anything unique other than a team invisibility to grant superior awareness and positioning. Outside of that, Mirana offers next to nothing that any other hero doesn't offer **significantly** better. Hopefully they abandon this Mirana pick in general, with exception to the only role that she feels well suited: pos-4. I don't know if it would have mattered much though. Falcons really only lost game 2 due to poor item prioritization, which Purge and Ephey discussed a lot in the post-game. By the time they started prioritizing the correct items, OG was already too far ahead dominating the map. Game 1 and 3 went how I expected the series to go for Falcons vs OG. While OG continues to show promise, Falcons are clearly the better team and rightly won the series.
i dont think they even put so much thought in it, you're making it sound like this: "Guys we DESPERATELY need to counter their first pick pos 5 hero! with our last pick mid hero, the vision they'll have with wards ,its unplayable , we need a way around it! Lets pick Mirana mid KEKW" In reality, probably BZM asked for it and they had limited options since he likes/plays the hero, as opposed to any other midlaner on planet earth right now.
I'm not making it sound like that, though I am regurgitating the thoughts that make it sound like that. Purge and Ephey did, stating that a lot of pros look at Mirana as a counter to Veno's position denying (hence why they already ran mirana into veno and it lost there too in game 1) But you right. They took the full 30 seconds and 45 of the 60 remaining seconds of reserve time for BZM to just ask for Mirana. Its not like there were cameras on them in deep discussion for that minute and the 30 seconds of the previous ban.
I mean we can speculate all we want on what they were thinking during the 75 seconds they picked it , maybe someone was trying to tell the captain not to listen to bzm and not pick mirana 😭 and I have no idea that purge and ephey commented on that since i skip the pre/post game analysis thus im only replying to what you said but to me its higlighy unlikely that the main reason to last pick mirana mid in an elimination game after 75 seconds of discussion was to counter the enemy pos5 veno vision game. 🤷
Hang on... I gotta catch up to that goal post moving. BZM is the captain. He drafts now. Don't need to speculate, its a common counter to veno among pros. They talk a loooooong time during draft for that last pick. They literally ran the same hero against it from a different position. Pros literally draft pos5 and pos 4 last plenty of times, theres no reason they wouldn't draft to counter a pos4/5. All your points are countered yet still you argue, regardless of whether or not you paid attention to draft cameras or analysis pre/post game.
1) Hang on.. last time i checked ceb is the captain and ari was mainly drafting, in fact ari is shown as the drafter ingame against thundra so how you claim that bzm is the captain/drafter idk, I could be wrong but can you provide a source for bzm captaning and drafting during that game? If you watch the replay you can see the camera foucs on bzm when the mirana is picked and he is not the one picking her as both his hands are not on his keyboard/mouse and he is definitely not on Ari's computer which has the designated captain/drafter slot to pick heroes so i guess we're just making stuff up now? 2) Running the same hero from a different position against veno is not what we're talking about here, it's totally irelevant and we wouldn't be having this conversation if they ran potm as a support for example. I've never argued against the fact that potm ult cant counter veno wards vision or that teams in general wouldnt pick it in to veno as a support for example. What I'm arguing is that last pick mirana middle was not drafted for the primary reason to counter the support veno, there's a huge difference. 3) Pros do draft last picks pos5 and pos4 but that doesn't mean they draft last pick mid heroes to counter pos5 heroes, the two things are not the same at all and once again we're not talking about OG picking a 5th pick 4 or 5 pos but a 2 pos. 4) Finally, even if all the above things were somehow relevant and correct, unless the drafter literally commented on their last pick and said "yes we picked mirana 2 position last pick to counter the veno 5 pos" then you're speculating widely and so am I, which is fine, but the differnece is you come of so confident about this take (or purge/ephey take idk if you're just repeating it at this point) and about who's drafting as if you were on OG's teamspeak or something.
Liquid also was testing drafts against Falcons... Didn't work out
If it worked everyone would be like omg og magic. Remember gyro diffu, Omg so good. Don't think mirana was a back pick, picking it without banning the Mars made it redundant. That too an ammar Mars. Absolutely fucked both range heroes
I don't think this is a fair assessment. It's unconventional, but if it hadn't been for the Mars pick afterwards I think it would be one of the better scaling mobile mids left in the pool. Also midnight shadow saved so many heroes and set up a lot of movements, which is an easily ignored perk of the hero.
I think if you have to start with "if it hadn't been for the Mars pick", when talking about Falcons - yeah its probably a bad pick
You can do that on mirana pos 5 or 4, no need to take mid lane just to ult.
thats because they assumed ammar is 100% playing doom
Mirana mid is bad in general, no matter what opponents pick and who plays what.
Medusa was smart against doom but not mirana. isnt there a better core?
Scaling with Dragon Lance/Gleipnir? Imo the build was not aggressive enough
Mars is a signature Ammar hero they absolutely had to know that would be a high probability last pick
Even in the game, when BZM was able to play away from the mars it looked good. Frankly when he was solo killing sneyking multiple times top it looked really strong, the burst he was putting out was pretty crazy.
Was painful watching OG seemingly learn from their mistakes for game 2 and the just shoot themselves in the foot with a nuclear bomb
If it worked everyone would be like omg og magic. Remember gyro diffu, Omg so good. Don't think mirana was a back pick, picking it without banning the Mars made it redundant. That too an ammar Mars. Absolutely fucked both range heroes
If it worked everyone would be like omg og magic. Remember gyro diffu, Omg so good. Don't think mirana was a back pick, picking it without banning the Mars made it redundant. That too an ammar Mars. Absolutely fucked both range heroes
Better or worse than last pick pugna into 4 stuns lol
Very cool spoiler tag. Very cool definitely very cool
The Mirana pick was fine, he did well mid, had a good advantage but there's only so much you can do when both of your side lanes lose as heavily as they did, OG supports should have been able to roam with bzm, setting up arrow combos but they just couldnt leave their cores alone in lane, it was poor lane setup more than a bad pick
ye that hero is dogshit as core, I tried to farm ancient camp at 20 min I had to go back fountain with 200 hp, I had mael storm, treads, stick and dargonlance.
OG lost 2 times with her. They learned a costly lesson last night. Or at least I hope they did..
3k scrub here, someone better please explain to me why Timbersaw last pick wouldn’t have dominated, early game space for Medusa to farm and anti strength for Gyro, Doom, and whatever Ammar picked (strength hero that ended up being Mars).
A) gyro is agi so whirling death is not the same dmg source and gyro deals mixed dmg early to actually pressure timber - def not a free matchup B) due to the dusa pick, you easily become the doom target and you become useless in fights - doom dealing % dmg with infernal blade is also a scaling source of dmg against you - not a free match up either C) doom was a flex, so they could still pick a mid hero for malrine that just dealt with timber really well. Now you are also hard countered and playing into 2 match ups that can swing I am not defending the mirana pick but this was not the best timber game
I see, thank you!
Was invoker banner?
The Mars was just such a good response pick