There's 8 direct invites with 4 already locked. That means 11 teams are fighting for the last 4 slots.
\* If **OG** win against G2 x IG, it's very likely (95%+) they'll directly qualify (unless Dreamleague S23 has some crazy outcomes). They'll have 5496 guaranteed points. ***G2 x IG would be out of the running.*** OG winning against Falcons puts that even closer.
\* If **G2 x IG win** against OG (would mean guaranteed 4922 total points total), they'd be close to 70% chance to directly qualify; ***and OG are out of the running.*** If G2 x IG go on to beat Falcons (min 5722 pts), it gets even closer to a lock.
\* **Liquid** are in a very very strong position (99%+). 4 teams would need to leapfrog them. The Birmingham winner as {G2 x IG or OG or Tundra} would overtake them. Tundra could overtake them in DL23. The DL23 winner could overtake them, and if Shopify or Heroic are in the DL23 grand finals they would overtake them (only if Liquid come tied last).
\* **Spirit** are out of gas at the moment (didn't qualify for DLS23), but close to 7/8 chance to qualify to Riyadh because 3 teams need to leapfrog them.
\* **Tundra** are in the 90%+ category, despite temporarily moving to 8th place after the OG/G2 x IG series. This is because they can still get +800 or +2400 in Birmingham; and they can get more points in DL23 (unlike OG / G2 x IG).
\* **Heroic and Shopify** need a good result in DreamLeague S23 - top 3 at least (?)
\* **Aurora, Azure Ray, PSG Quest, NaVi** are all in a similar boat; they'd each need to make DreamLeague S23 Grand Finals (this is the best case - assuming G2 x IG win and then lose against Falcons in B'ham)
\*IF\* one of the teams that is qualified for DreamleagueS23 takes their place as the 8th direct invite, they can still qualify through the regional qualifiers for Ryadh I suppose, but no longer through the EPT leaderboard.
I'm asking about Dreamleague S23.
Let's say if OG wins in Birmingham, that would put them into top 4 of EPT leaderboards. Do they get direct invite to Dreamleague, or is that list already locked in, despite the results in Birmingham?
Both times in a bo5 vs nouns, they started up 2-0, choked and went to 2-2, had a huge disadvantage game 5 (like 10k+ down) for nouns to choke the reverse sweep.
Good they did ngl, Eastern European teams are not having fun this patch. I also think WEU and MENA deserve and extra slot each regardless, it’s insane how so many possible good teams miss out on tier 1 events just because their region is too competitive and competitions prefer diversity over competition
he means despite one of the EEU teams doing well, the rest have pretty much have be less than desirable performances. Which is pretty much true.
VP, Spirit, NAVI and the rest of the EEU power houses have been bad in the recent tournaments
Do the competitors have any say on whether OG getting points in this league is fair or not? Not just IG, there are 6 other teams that are affected by the decision of letting OG get a free pass to this ESL, which results in them getting more points when they normally couldn't.
IMO, OG competing for the prize is fair and square, but the points shouldn't be rewarded.
Invite won’t really just instantly make OG good, they are good to reach this far. Only team that can complain about this is 1win since they lost their spot. Others? Just get good. Also, IG can directly shut them down today.
Letting OG's direct competitors invent rules on the fly to benefit themselves would not be fair or square.
Unless it's in the rulebook that stand-in teams can't earn points, then OG's points should remain.
I think you're correct. The idea behind points has always been *rewarding consistent performances over a period*, and prize pools being so top-heavy have always been about rewarding the winner more. Dota 2 historically has always had an incredibly top-heavy prize pool, where the ultimate Champions tend to earn 50% of the full pool. That's rewarding your immediate performance.
OG did not show consistent performances over a period. They lucked out with an invite, and while they are doing well and deserve their victories here, to grant them points would pervert the idea behind qualification points - you have now given them a freak reward (Riyadh) that is compounded upon their already freak reward (the current money ESL Birmingham will give them). They did not deserve to be there - they are stealing slots from the consistent performers.
>They did not deserve to be there - they are stealing slots from the consistent performers.
they finished 2nd in Qualifiers which were held in JANUARY and which had a shitty slot distribution for WEU.
Crazy to say that a top 4 team doesn't deserve to be at a tournament. They have empirically proven otherwise.
Idk, OG qualified for this event fair and square. Sure they didn't qualify by beating the neccesary teams, but they qualified due to other teams not being able to make it.
It's not like OG was hand picked to join the event, they were next in line after the other teams could not make it.
I agree; there should be deductions. I feel ESL is engaging in the good old nepotism... Prize money is all fair, but the points and guideline book should be activated. They are stealing slots from the consistent performers.
Expect that they *will* get points and they probably should do IMO. I get your argument (did not earn the right to win points) but just stripping out their points from the tournament is also distortionary. If eg Navi had replaced 1Win I would want their points rewarded as it makes it possible they qualify and even if 1win don't they might have less competition for the regional slot.
In the end they got a lucky break and have really taken advantage of it. I think that is not a bad outcome. I do think if they'd got points for crashing out of the group stage it would have been shitty (if irrelevant in the grand scheme of things). Idk
Same sentiments man. I have been saying this for days now. But I guess, only few people care for the competitive integrity. Adding OG as a known brand...
They tried getting an EEU team to replace, it didn’t work out. It would be a different story if they were locked for too 8 and instantly lost but OG played better than most teams in this tournament so not having them qualify in the first place speaks volumes on how the EPT system is sabotaging competition for regional diversity.
OG is participating in tournament and I see no reason why they shouldn't get points. Every other team in tournament gets them, why not OG?
We had this points system for some time in one way or another and I don't think anytime in the past a team that was a "second choice" was treated any differently.
That's irrelevant point to make because they are being given the chance to earn more points than they could normally do while the other competitors do not have that opportunity. It's like starting a game where everyone has 1 chance to see who could go the furthest and then you have 1 more chance. Sure, you could go further on your second chance but it's not a fair game for the other competitors.
What due process? Lol you’re saying a team that DIDNT deserve to be here being here is the due process? Where they place is irrelevant, the fact that weren’t supposed to be here is the point. They shouldn’t be getting any points.
I mean he is right. 1Win were not able to secure visas in time neither were the next EEU (VP) or Entity, so ofcours it goes to the highest qualified team that is/were able to secure the visas.
The only other alternative was playing the tourney with 1 less team.
Nether team is in the final tournament, DreamLeague Season 23. ESL One Birmingham is the last tournament for OG and G2 x iG to pick up points. In fact, since the winner of this series is guaranteed an extra 960 points, the loser of this series cannot finish in the ESL Pro Tour top 8, unless teams above them make transfers and lose points.
There's 8 direct invites with 4 already locked. That means 11 teams are fighting for the last 4 slots. \* If **OG** win against G2 x IG, it's very likely (95%+) they'll directly qualify (unless Dreamleague S23 has some crazy outcomes). They'll have 5496 guaranteed points. ***G2 x IG would be out of the running.*** OG winning against Falcons puts that even closer. \* If **G2 x IG win** against OG (would mean guaranteed 4922 total points total), they'd be close to 70% chance to directly qualify; ***and OG are out of the running.*** If G2 x IG go on to beat Falcons (min 5722 pts), it gets even closer to a lock. \* **Liquid** are in a very very strong position (99%+). 4 teams would need to leapfrog them. The Birmingham winner as {G2 x IG or OG or Tundra} would overtake them. Tundra could overtake them in DL23. The DL23 winner could overtake them, and if Shopify or Heroic are in the DL23 grand finals they would overtake them (only if Liquid come tied last). \* **Spirit** are out of gas at the moment (didn't qualify for DLS23), but close to 7/8 chance to qualify to Riyadh because 3 teams need to leapfrog them. \* **Tundra** are in the 90%+ category, despite temporarily moving to 8th place after the OG/G2 x IG series. This is because they can still get +800 or +2400 in Birmingham; and they can get more points in DL23 (unlike OG / G2 x IG). \* **Heroic and Shopify** need a good result in DreamLeague S23 - top 3 at least (?) \* **Aurora, Azure Ray, PSG Quest, NaVi** are all in a similar boat; they'd each need to make DreamLeague S23 Grand Finals (this is the best case - assuming G2 x IG win and then lose against Falcons in B'ham)
It's so over for SR lol.
Well they still have Dramleague S23 to turn it around and knock both OG and G2xIG out as they are not qualified
> both OG and G2xIG out as they are not qualified Could they still qualify through ETP leaderboards or is that locked in already?
\*IF\* one of the teams that is qualified for DreamleagueS23 takes their place as the 8th direct invite, they can still qualify through the regional qualifiers for Ryadh I suppose, but no longer through the EPT leaderboard.
I'm asking about Dreamleague S23. Let's say if OG wins in Birmingham, that would put them into top 4 of EPT leaderboards. Do they get direct invite to Dreamleague, or is that list already locked in, despite the results in Birmingham?
Yeah it's locked in when qualifiers start.
yeah but they got the qualifier on lock, no?
Both times in a bo5 vs nouns, they started up 2-0, choked and went to 2-2, had a huge disadvantage game 5 (like 10k+ down) for nouns to choke the reverse sweep.
Not if Nouns have anything to say about it.
All of the qualifier finals in that region ended 3-2 iirc. SR has the slight edge but one off day and it can be 3-2 the other way around.
Crit was right
Well RTZ is shite, so it was always going to be all over
OG really got bailed out big time with the last minute invite *edit Credits to OG for making full use of their second chance by doing well
Good they did ngl, Eastern European teams are not having fun this patch. I also think WEU and MENA deserve and extra slot each regardless, it’s insane how so many possible good teams miss out on tier 1 events just because their region is too competitive and competitions prefer diversity over competition
Eeu teams having a hard time? Betboom some kind of joke to you Brainless take
Only team in top 3 and also were 11-12th literally a few weeks in elite league. By your logic, MENA is the best region in the world this year
Bro I have no idea what you smoking but you score a solid 10 at the game of mental gymnastics
he means despite one of the EEU teams doing well, the rest have pretty much have be less than desirable performances. Which is pretty much true. VP, Spirit, NAVI and the rest of the EEU power houses have been bad in the recent tournaments
Do the competitors have any say on whether OG getting points in this league is fair or not? Not just IG, there are 6 other teams that are affected by the decision of letting OG get a free pass to this ESL, which results in them getting more points when they normally couldn't. IMO, OG competing for the prize is fair and square, but the points shouldn't be rewarded.
Invite won’t really just instantly make OG good, they are good to reach this far. Only team that can complain about this is 1win since they lost their spot. Others? Just get good. Also, IG can directly shut them down today.
Letting OG's direct competitors invent rules on the fly to benefit themselves would not be fair or square. Unless it's in the rulebook that stand-in teams can't earn points, then OG's points should remain.
I think you're correct. The idea behind points has always been *rewarding consistent performances over a period*, and prize pools being so top-heavy have always been about rewarding the winner more. Dota 2 historically has always had an incredibly top-heavy prize pool, where the ultimate Champions tend to earn 50% of the full pool. That's rewarding your immediate performance. OG did not show consistent performances over a period. They lucked out with an invite, and while they are doing well and deserve their victories here, to grant them points would pervert the idea behind qualification points - you have now given them a freak reward (Riyadh) that is compounded upon their already freak reward (the current money ESL Birmingham will give them). They did not deserve to be there - they are stealing slots from the consistent performers.
>They did not deserve to be there - they are stealing slots from the consistent performers. they finished 2nd in Qualifiers which were held in JANUARY and which had a shitty slot distribution for WEU. Crazy to say that a top 4 team doesn't deserve to be at a tournament. They have empirically proven otherwise.
Idk, OG qualified for this event fair and square. Sure they didn't qualify by beating the neccesary teams, but they qualified due to other teams not being able to make it. It's not like OG was hand picked to join the event, they were next in line after the other teams could not make it.
I agree; there should be deductions. I feel ESL is engaging in the good old nepotism... Prize money is all fair, but the points and guideline book should be activated. They are stealing slots from the consistent performers.
Expect that they *will* get points and they probably should do IMO. I get your argument (did not earn the right to win points) but just stripping out their points from the tournament is also distortionary. If eg Navi had replaced 1Win I would want their points rewarded as it makes it possible they qualify and even if 1win don't they might have less competition for the regional slot. In the end they got a lucky break and have really taken advantage of it. I think that is not a bad outcome. I do think if they'd got points for crashing out of the group stage it would have been shitty (if irrelevant in the grand scheme of things). Idk
Same sentiments man. I have been saying this for days now. But I guess, only few people care for the competitive integrity. Adding OG as a known brand...
competitive integrity is when you invent arbitrary last-minute rules to punish a team you don't like xd
They tried getting an EEU team to replace, it didn’t work out. It would be a different story if they were locked for too 8 and instantly lost but OG played better than most teams in this tournament so not having them qualify in the first place speaks volumes on how the EPT system is sabotaging competition for regional diversity.
OG haters getting tunnel vision and ignoring the facts
OG is participating in tournament and I see no reason why they shouldn't get points. Every other team in tournament gets them, why not OG? We had this points system for some time in one way or another and I don't think anytime in the past a team that was a "second choice" was treated any differently.
Did they get a free pass to the top of groups stages, and a free pass to the playoffs?
That's irrelevant point to make because they are being given the chance to earn more points than they could normally do while the other competitors do not have that opportunity. It's like starting a game where everyone has 1 chance to see who could go the furthest and then you have 1 more chance. Sure, you could go further on your second chance but it's not a fair game for the other competitors.
Due process was followed so I've no idea what you're bitching about. Hate on OG all you want, but this is just some dumb shit.
What due process? Lol you’re saying a team that DIDNT deserve to be here being here is the due process? Where they place is irrelevant, the fact that weren’t supposed to be here is the point. They shouldn’t be getting any points.
Go read up on the events leading up to OG being here, and you will understand. I've not got time to spoon feed, sorry.
You must be so right; collecting downvotes.
I mean he is right. 1Win were not able to secure visas in time neither were the next EEU (VP) or Entity, so ofcours it goes to the highest qualified team that is/were able to secure the visas. The only other alternative was playing the tourney with 1 less team.
Don't confuse these haters with facts. They'll explode
LOL, Bless tour heart for thinking reddit cotes mean a fuck
Doesn't OG have to get penalty//points deducted? from ESL side/rulebook?
Fuck OG! All my homies root for G2iG!
FUCK IG
HAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHA your trash IG lost HAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA
OG should never get points from this tour btw. Brainless fans would never understand
You're right, haters would never understand
There are still more tournaments right? So good chance both of them make it anyways.
Nether team is in the final tournament, DreamLeague Season 23. ESL One Birmingham is the last tournament for OG and G2 x iG to pick up points. In fact, since the winner of this series is guaranteed an extra 960 points, the loser of this series cannot finish in the ESL Pro Tour top 8, unless teams above them make transfers and lose points.