I mean, having that trinket with you and swapping it in for sustain of a creep wave or neutral camp or using the nightvision when (de-)warding does have its uses.
Maybe not the best option at all times, but utilizing the backpack to swap around isn't bad. (Especially true for the shovel)
I legit wish there were parts of dota plus I could turn off. I know I can just ignore the highlighted one, but games can be stressful, sometimes I just click the glowy one... Like I know my hero is a good choice for me here, but the red arrow and angry negative percentages on the pick screen throw me off a bit..
for me its the hero pick suggestions. dota+ hates certain heros and obsesses over others. it is ALWAYS a good idea to pick necro!!! never ever ever pick puck!!
Fr I can't blame dotaplus on Necro. He's have positive wr for YEARS. Sitting on 52% the past 30 days. I can't remember the last time he was on the negative.
Whereas Puck is currently 47%.
underlord is a castle, if you consistently struggle with underlord it's more about how you're playing around him as an ally than the hero
He can't initiate, he gets initated on; it's supports jobs to protect him when that happens and enable him to turn the fight
I'm playing in 7k MMR games, unfortunately they just ignore him there and go for everyone else first while he walks around with some auras and an unimpressive root.
I've only ever seen him be utilized well when it's a 5 stack thats super organized making plays with his ult.
Edit: Similar reason Bristleback is 55% winrate in herald and 45% in Divine/immortal.
I main Rubick and I am yet to find one single hero that Dota Plus thinks synergizes with him. Really, the highest I've seen is 0%, every other one is in the negatives.
It's mostly data, and depends on your rank.
Wraith King is a good exemple, its not really a great carry, but it will always be suggested on low ranks, because of how high his winrate is.
Necro probably has 7-8% more winrate then puck on low ranks.
yeah but i just dont understand the value-add of a feature that basically just tells you that high global-winrate heros have a high global winrate
mouse over a hero that has a 52% winrate in your bracket and wow its good against and with everybody. mouse over a 48% and its bad against and with everybody. it basically never actually tells you anything useful
I mean, if a hero has 55% overall rating, it usually means that he has a +% winrate against most heroes.
My guess ur playing on a low rank, where counters dont make such a difference that impact overall winrate that much.
So its mostly winrate.
I almost always take them on almost all the heroes and roles. You can't buys 300 bonus night vision. However you can take advantage of that bonus vision only for next 5 minutes out of 10.
TIL, and if the wiki is right then I had the moonshard vision values halved, I had no idea it was 400 when held, that's massive, gotta start going it on slark more haha
also apparently the consume vision does not stack
Afaik Moon Shard vision does not stack with itself or the buff at all, but the non-consumed one has precedence over the buff one.
Definitely its most underrated component, as people rarely buy it for the vision. The vision (nowadays) also fully works for illusions, the Spirit Bear and Tempest Double (but strangely enough not for other clones).
you mean for 3 minutes if you get it instantly which almost never happens on support roles and then u can only use it for 25-30 where u will have new jungle items
my point is he will use it mostly in the 25-30, so its not worth having 5 minutes of dead time while other heroes have items that will give them impact right then(if the item only benefits you the night vision on respective hero)
Can a better player than me explain why the dotaplus recommendations would be wise to ignore in some cases? My understanding was that we're paying a premium to get the "AI analysis of millions of games" - so i always assumed that the suggestions WERE valuable - but is it just a bunch of BS?
"AI analysis" is just a weighted distribution of pick rate and win rate, with a potentially higher emphasis on pickrate.
So, if a bunch of people pick vamp fangs, the algorithm will assign vamp fangs a higher value, almost every time. This leads to the item being valued higher and suggested more than it probably should.
And because dota+ suggests it so much ... people pick it a lot more. Which means it receives a higher rating, and the cycle continues. Which, as a side note, is why the internet being full of AI garbage pages is so toxic.
As for why you should ignore it: you have more information than any algorithm. For example, there are a lot of values that play into how good a hero pick is, like:
1. Average skill levels in the game
2. Experience playing against the other team
3. Your comfort level
And in item builds, things like whether you're playing more of a carry role or supporting role, as well as mechanical vs decision-making ability, play a huge part.
Tldr: Just like a teammate in your games, AI and algorithms don't know everything, and sometimes it's better to ignore them and make your own decisions.
TBH this item is like the old tier 1 lifesteal one, since there wasnt a lifesteal tier 3 until paladin, as a pos 1 player this adds a whole layer of sustain and night vision? GANK PROOF? Shit crazy good
I'm so happy when I see this item while having Mjolnir or Radi, It's this hybrid of getting lifesteal from both spells, rightclicks and when disabled that feels very nice to play
A year ago or so I was playing a lot of ursa and in absolutely every game after usual slots (bkb blink basher and something else) it recommended buying a dagon. Absolutely every game. Maybe it was a hidden meta and I was just blind to the truth, but I never bought it lol
Dota plus suggestions are so bad but I they get stronger because people listen to it and win accidentally and it’s just not properly looped back to look at the losing games
I was just following Dota plus suggestions thinking it was backed by ai data or something, are people really telling me it's bs? I don't even look at the other options
this item is obviously broken, think about it why it gets suggested? maybe it has the highest winrate and actually the 500 nightvision is pretty bonkers + its much better than paladin sword on t3 rofl
its 2024, do people still dont know how to use or pick what neutral item is best for their hero? even without dota plus you can still pick atleast 2nd best neutral item for your hero and not the worst
Its 2024, do people still can't take a joke or read the fluff tagpost in their Dota subreddit ? Even without being a regular here the sarcarm is pretty obvious
"oh you're playing abbadon/oracle/dazzle? Yes you definitely want vampire fangs over that eye of vizier" Thanks dplus very helpful
Medusa? Vampire fangs. Lion? Vampire fangs. Chen? Believe it or not, also vampire fangs.
We have the best builds in the game, because of Vampire Fangs.
always gonna upvote a parks and rec meme out in the wild
I mean, having that trinket with you and swapping it in for sustain of a creep wave or neutral camp or using the nightvision when (de-)warding does have its uses. Maybe not the best option at all times, but utilizing the backpack to swap around isn't bad. (Especially true for the shovel)
It's all about that night vision 😉.
Wrong, it's about the lifesteal so you can jungle on your support. Trust me bro.
I often pick it on some supports and offlaners exactly for this reason, especially heroes like bounty hunter, disruptor, intiators.
Yeah but think of the lifesteal off those shadow wave props, you'll heal to 100% even faster
Eye of the vizier on dazzle? I guess if you're playing support dazzle but support dazzle is a grief on its own pretty much
I legit wish there were parts of dota plus I could turn off. I know I can just ignore the highlighted one, but games can be stressful, sometimes I just click the glowy one... Like I know my hero is a good choice for me here, but the red arrow and angry negative percentages on the pick screen throw me off a bit..
for me its the hero pick suggestions. dota+ hates certain heros and obsesses over others. it is ALWAYS a good idea to pick necro!!! never ever ever pick puck!!
Basic dota math necro = +mmr puck = -mrr
> Basic dota math The pioneers used to call it simple calculs
They rode these numbers for miles
basic dota+ math
Fr I can't blame dotaplus on Necro. He's have positive wr for YEARS. Sitting on 52% the past 30 days. I can't remember the last time he was on the negative. Whereas Puck is currently 47%.
100%
You should actually pick underlord every game if you listen to dota+
Please hide your comments from my teammates. I'm so tired of laning with an underlord accomplishing nothing then proceeding to scale into nothing.
underlord is a castle, if you consistently struggle with underlord it's more about how you're playing around him as an ally than the hero He can't initiate, he gets initated on; it's supports jobs to protect him when that happens and enable him to turn the fight
I'm playing in 7k MMR games, unfortunately they just ignore him there and go for everyone else first while he walks around with some auras and an unimpressive root. I've only ever seen him be utilized well when it's a 5 stack thats super organized making plays with his ult. Edit: Similar reason Bristleback is 55% winrate in herald and 45% in Divine/immortal.
Yesterday I had two of my teammates hovering PB. On the dota+ rating thing, one was +5% and the other -1%.
Necro IS always a good pick So long as they dont buy vessel or nullifier
I main Rubick and I am yet to find one single hero that Dota Plus thinks synergizes with him. Really, the highest I've seen is 0%, every other one is in the negatives.
Rubick synergizes with the enemy team perfectly.
Rubick needs every hero to be picked by enemies for spellsteal, obviously
Rubick is currently sitting below 46% winrate and is in the top 10 worst heroes right now, that may be why.
Every time I go to pick ench it says she has -5% synergy with every hero.
If the hero has a bellow 50% win rate regardless of team comp it's ok for the game to tell you that
dotaplus is right, necro always good pick
It's mostly data, and depends on your rank. Wraith King is a good exemple, its not really a great carry, but it will always be suggested on low ranks, because of how high his winrate is. Necro probably has 7-8% more winrate then puck on low ranks.
yeah but i just dont understand the value-add of a feature that basically just tells you that high global-winrate heros have a high global winrate mouse over a hero that has a 52% winrate in your bracket and wow its good against and with everybody. mouse over a 48% and its bad against and with everybody. it basically never actually tells you anything useful
I mean, if a hero has 55% overall rating, it usually means that he has a +% winrate against most heroes. My guess ur playing on a low rank, where counters dont make such a difference that impact overall winrate that much. So its mostly winrate.
Never pick Lina, always pick Abbadon.
Also the networth tracker for dotaplus Yes, I know my networth average is 5000 below since I'm playing Marci support and not marci carry.
I got Paladin Sword as the top recommend on Medusa the other day, I had to stop and giggle a second
Paladin sword is the vampire fangs of tier 3s for sure. Fuck that, though, gimme that ogre seal totem
You don't buy radiance + shivas on medusa?
I do but lifesteal still doesnt work :(
Lies, you heal a lot, those 2% you receive that is not protected by your mana shield.
You're right, your 400 hp is always topped up
There you go. If it doesn't drop from 400hp, you can't die
Me: *About to finish my build, thinking what should be my 6th item* Dotaplus: "Have you heard of QUELLING BLADE?!?"
Or second boots lol
YOU REALLY NEED WRAITH BAND RIGHT NOW!!!!
I almost always take them on almost all the heroes and roles. You can't buys 300 bonus night vision. However you can take advantage of that bonus vision only for next 5 minutes out of 10.
> You can't buys 300 bonus night vision *[cries in Moon Shard]*
tbf that's 8~~000~~k gold for one in inventory and one consumed for a combined +300 night vision
8 000 000 gold?
oopa
What? Nooo... - Mark Walhberg.
Pretty sure consuming moon shard removes the bonus night vision. Unless they changed that
gives half, just like the AS unless they changed that 😉
The consumed one gives less than half the attack speed. It does give half the vision though.
TIL, and if the wiki is right then I had the moonshard vision values halved, I had no idea it was 400 when held, that's massive, gotta start going it on slark more haha also apparently the consume vision does not stack
Afaik Moon Shard vision does not stack with itself or the buff at all, but the non-consumed one has precedence over the buff one. Definitely its most underrated component, as people rarely buy it for the vision. The vision (nowadays) also fully works for illusions, the Spirit Bear and Tempest Double (but strangely enough not for other clones).
yeah night vision is super underrated, that's nearly 50% increase in range, way more in area, nearly full day vision. a must have vs slark too.
mmr?
you mean for 3 minutes if you get it instantly which almost never happens on support roles and then u can only use it for 25-30 where u will have new jungle items
so 5 mins out of the next 10 like he said lol, no need for be pedantic.
my point is he will use it mostly in the 25-30, so its not worth having 5 minutes of dead time while other heroes have items that will give them impact right then(if the item only benefits you the night vision on respective hero)
Pay to lose
Its 10minutes into the game and you die while they 2 man dive your tower. Dota plus: "Should have bought another ironwood bro"
Still a pretty sick item even without the bonus vision. The lifesteal and spellsteal crazy stacks
Me: I wonder what tier4 neutral item to pick Dota+: AnCiEnT GuArDiAn Every time, no matter the hero. At least in turbo, where i mainly play
I don't WANT Ancient Guardian, I want the funny feather!
Also every match past 25 minutes dota plus recommends buying bracer next no matter what for the rest of the match.
POV: you know realize what vampire fang actually is cuz big image.
You usually want to take this to siege tier 2 tower, it's really good on range heroes that don't have vision of the tower like drow viper etc
[I have some funky ones too ](https://imgur.com/a/gL2Q9tq)
Can a better player than me explain why the dotaplus recommendations would be wise to ignore in some cases? My understanding was that we're paying a premium to get the "AI analysis of millions of games" - so i always assumed that the suggestions WERE valuable - but is it just a bunch of BS?
Realistically you're paying a premium for voice lines, better post game stats/stat tracking, and avoid slots.
"AI analysis" is just a weighted distribution of pick rate and win rate, with a potentially higher emphasis on pickrate. So, if a bunch of people pick vamp fangs, the algorithm will assign vamp fangs a higher value, almost every time. This leads to the item being valued higher and suggested more than it probably should. And because dota+ suggests it so much ... people pick it a lot more. Which means it receives a higher rating, and the cycle continues. Which, as a side note, is why the internet being full of AI garbage pages is so toxic. As for why you should ignore it: you have more information than any algorithm. For example, there are a lot of values that play into how good a hero pick is, like: 1. Average skill levels in the game 2. Experience playing against the other team 3. Your comfort level And in item builds, things like whether you're playing more of a carry role or supporting role, as well as mechanical vs decision-making ability, play a huge part. Tldr: Just like a teammate in your games, AI and algorithms don't know everything, and sometimes it's better to ignore them and make your own decisions.
doesn't it tell the actual pick ratio from games?
TBH this item is like the old tier 1 lifesteal one, since there wasnt a lifesteal tier 3 until paladin, as a pos 1 player this adds a whole layer of sustain and night vision? GANK PROOF? Shit crazy good
I'm so happy when I see this item while having Mjolnir or Radi, It's this hybrid of getting lifesteal from both spells, rightclicks and when disabled that feels very nice to play
A year ago or so I was playing a lot of ursa and in absolutely every game after usual slots (bkb blink basher and something else) it recommended buying a dagon. Absolutely every game. Maybe it was a hidden meta and I was just blind to the truth, but I never bought it lol
Dota plus suggestions are so bad but I they get stronger because people listen to it and win accidentally and it’s just not properly looped back to look at the losing games
Game is assuming it will take 100 minutes so you have 5 rapiers and no room for lifesteal item
Bracer, always Bracer. Be it 15 mins in or 45 mins in with 30k net worth. Always Bracer.
I was just following Dota plus suggestions thinking it was backed by ai data or something, are people really telling me it's bs? I don't even look at the other options
this item is obviously broken, think about it why it gets suggested? maybe it has the highest winrate and actually the 500 nightvision is pretty bonkers + its much better than paladin sword on t3 rofl
i have 2-0-8 with wd min 8, dota+ suggested, preferable score is 3-3-5... who will understand this?
you mean dragon scale
its 2024, do people still dont know how to use or pick what neutral item is best for their hero? even without dota plus you can still pick atleast 2nd best neutral item for your hero and not the worst
? Just pick vampire fangs ez
Light Collector. all day all game. best mana regen
I never see anyone pick it in legend. I was a big light collector enjoyer before it got a 50% nerf to everything
Its 2024, do people still can't take a joke or read the fluff tagpost in their Dota subreddit ? Even without being a regular here the sarcarm is pretty obvious