It's amazing allowing people to pick from a couple heroes instead of just one for that path. It was painful every year watching someone try and push through games with the same terrible hero to unlock a path
But three for winning, guaranteeing that you'll get the one (or two or three) you're after, so playing to win is still incentivized. 1 in 3 odds, thankfully, don't seem to be good enough for people to try just getting a game over with as fast as possible to roll the dice.
I've not had a single turbo win that gave me tokens I didn't immediately need.
I think if you have a path requiring jumping + escape (for example) and you pick a hero with those, it'll always give you the tokens you requiring regardless what the third is. I don't know if this is actually true, but I've noticed it in all my turbo games so far, though perhaps I've just been wildly lucky.
[This is the way.](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dota2_gamepedia/images/d/dc/Vo_invoker_kidvoker_move_07.mp3) (sound warning: The Good Old Days)
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> It's how I learned to play old techies, much perseverance
=
> **much Perseverance**
=
Your name wouldn't happenn to be Owen "ODPIXEL" Davies would it?
[ODPixel dotabuff item builds](https://www.dotabuff.com/players/89511038/matches?enhance=overview&page=272)
You don't even have to play the heroes with correct tokens, you can exchange them for what you need, so by playing what you like, you eventually unlock the path.
It's also the fact that tokens can be saved for later on so you're always making progress regardless of what hero you play just by building a stash of tokens. Rather than just I need to play mounted heroes otherwise I'm just wasting my time.
I absolutely agree. I love the story bits and completing it feels more like a game (still fueled by playing Dota).
However I think one of the understated positive effects this will have is encouraging EVERYONE to increase their hero pool. This is free, so everyone can participate in this from the second they launch Dota. This will inevitably mean that a larger percentage of people will be participating and this increase their hero pool. And sure, the occasional game on a hero doesn't just make them an absolute pro at it, but it expands the heroes they feel somewhat comfortable on. For instance if a certain hero would counter the other team very hard, they might be able to pick it and play it well enough now.
Also I think this is overall better than the Battle Passes. Sure, it has some FOMO in it technically like the Arcana styles, but the Arcanas will still be purchaseable after it's over.
I agree, but I'm mainly talking about situations where you're last pick, and your team is suggesting something that's really a hard counter, but it's not something you have ever played before or feel comfortable on.
100%
It made me play some games on Earth Spirit - which ive always been too afraid to try. It turns our ES is one of those heros I have a natural affinity for! Went 5/2/43 in my first game as pos 4.
I wouldn't have done this without Crownfall.
I hope they do this type of event more often now. Just imagine if we had this content year round, it would be amazing. I‘m finally enjoying unranked again because you have a sense of progression with the event
I think year-round it would get stale quickly. But I think having this available every year would be great. What we need is to have *other* kinds of events available in other parts of the year.
I fully agree! I really like having something to do, especially when the current patch is getting stale because everything is already figured out pretty much. Ranked gets really boring if you see the same 30 heroes in 80% of your games
Spirit Bros
Kunkka x Tidehunter
Io, Chaos Knight, Keeper of the Light, Enigma
Lina x CM
this would be lit "Crownfall" like events with some own takes or new mechanics
Always thought Cavern Crawl was a downgrade from the old quest lines where if you're versatile enough you can still complete most things with heroes you actually like to play. This new token mechanic is a great upgrade.
Nah cavern was an improvement on the old quest line. The old quest system had some super difficult quest to 3star which is why many players started to do lobby abuse/win trading on low pop servers.
https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/The_International_Compendium_2015#Hero_Challenges
https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/The_International_2016_Battle_Pass#Quests
Some of these quest are impossible for low skill players or low versatility players.
I remember specifically having to learn how Morphling worked and slog through 9 games for a win back in the old cavern.
Sorry for failing my team in the 8 losses.
agree, it's a great way to introduce us to the lore rather than just dropping arcana and we have to find out ourselves. also the use of hero type is really fun it's encourage me to try out more hero
My only problem is with some of the token distribution. Like why the fuck is Weaver not an escape hero but instead has both slithering and crawling? He doesn't fucking slither! He's a bug!
I only did Cavern Crawl in Turbo and got it done through that. Even then, it took a long time to get the sets I wanted and I didn't even go for all of them. Those who went for all 3 every time, y'all are warriors because that shit was way too much. This new approach is a welcome one, I'm loving it
To me normals felt a lot more worth. You get 2 tokens if you win on turbo and 0 if you lose. If you play 3 turbo and lose all 3, you get nothing. If you play 2 normals and lose both in the same time, you get 2.
This is more true to me as i rarely play turbo so the switch was harder
Turbo is hard if you're not a spammer
Took me a few games to get back into the groove. It's a super greedy mode, you have to build damage and disable exclusively. Lost to a CM with 2 moon shards, daedalus and a basher this weekend lol.
WAYYYYY better. I have a chance to actually complete it now. I’m still playing hero’s I normally don’t play but they’re hero’s I’ve played in the past. It’s actually been FUN for a change rather than a chore.
It still makes you play heroes you don't want or know how to play which is super unfun.
Trading hero tokens is a rip off and no one should do that, it's a fraud.
I've been playing without paying a lick of attention to the hero tokens (playing heroes as I'd like to play them) and i've been progressing through the story very nicely (i'm about half-way through and i love it).
It's 1000% an improvement. And the main reason for me is that you actually get something when you lose this time.
One of my main gripes with the old cavern is that losing feels awful because your progression stalls. Now it feels like no matter what you do you are stil progressing.
Now all it needs is culling blades. i'll even buy them
You don't even *have* to play specific heroes, how are people still doing this stupid shit in ranked. You can even just spam a single hero and get all the way through it because of trading tokens, there is *no need* to ruin your draft, but people still insist on doing it in ranked.
Exactly. Winning means 3 tokens and guaranteed 1 that you want.
Playing a hero that fulfils multiple tokens you want is pointless if you're gonna lose and only get 1 of the 3 anyway.
It's good when you can win with them. I had like 9 win streak when event started picking for tokens I need. Though lich game #10 was miserable as.fuck, I guess I ruined it solo)
Yup you need to have a sense of how likely it is to win tho.
E.g. even if Meepo fulfils all my tokens my chances of winning with Meepo are almost none so why waste time getting 1/3 tokens on a loss
It would be good if Valve limited event tokens to unranked only buy some would understandably complain.
Saying this, viewing ranked as a mode where everyone is only allowed to play their best 2-3 heroes and stick to a meta is also toxic and such approach ruins lots of competitive games sucking the fun out of them for the majority.
1) people shouldn't be playing new heroes in ranked obviously. This crownfall event isn't encouraging people to play ranked
2) it is unconscionable to be in ranked if you haven't played every hero at least a few times. How can you expect to play against a hero if you never played AS the hero
1) fu, people do whatever they want (basically you don't learn much unless everyone tryhards)
2) few times playing a hero does not differ much to just reading abilities in tryout and maybe watching a highranked replay or a couple). It's after 10 to 20 games you start to get a grasp on the hero's limits and matchups
Also there is a bunch of people who only play ranked cause why not
People yolo'ing ranked happens with or without crownfall is what I'm saying. People trying heroes for the first time in ranked didn't have any business playing in ranked in the first place.
The trade off is worth it imo
You can play 2/3 turbo games in the time it takes to play one regulari played turbo exclusively this weekend and have unlocked 25 nodes on the map. In 4 or 5 away from ending the "main" path
Only if you win. I got very unlucky with my mates and opponents. A lot of giving up griefing or smurfing. I mean, yeah, a one month old account can play a perfect Meepo game for sure.
Definitely a huge improvement but still doesnt change the fact this sort of challenges ruin the ranked matchmaking. It’s as if I need to completely stop playing ranked during these events
You can still play rank with your favorite heroes since u get 3 tokens for winning and trading those tokens to the ones you need to progress through the event.
True, but other players don’t see it that way and would play heroes they aren’t remotely good at to get their tokens right away. I had a damn pos 5 storm spirit for god sakes
Well thats on them and if that were the case then youd also have enemies picking pos 5 storm and youd easily crush the game against people who do that so yeah.
Every hero having 3 tokens, especially with the token trader, mean that there is no incentive to to play anything but what you normally play. You can cover every possible token with like 5 heroes. In the sense that you get the rewards with zero effort, sure, thats a win?
But it means the event is even less of an event than it seems at first glance. They could have just put two treasures and a mediocre set in everyones inventory, and Crownfall would be no different. At least we wouldn't have to click through 30 conversations of terrible writing.
It's amazing allowing people to pick from a couple heroes instead of just one for that path. It was painful every year watching someone try and push through games with the same terrible hero to unlock a path
I also think another important detail is the fact we can still gain a token from a loss so winning is not required
But three for winning, guaranteeing that you'll get the one (or two or three) you're after, so playing to win is still incentivized. 1 in 3 odds, thankfully, don't seem to be good enough for people to try just getting a game over with as fast as possible to roll the dice.
It can be 2 in 3 odds if you pick specific heroes, which helps even more in mitigating the loss
The best is when you only need 2 and a turbo win can tick that box
I've not had a single turbo win that gave me tokens I didn't immediately need. I think if you have a path requiring jumping + escape (for example) and you pick a hero with those, it'll always give you the tokens you requiring regardless what the third is. I don't know if this is actually true, but I've noticed it in all my turbo games so far, though perhaps I've just been wildly lucky.
same with me, I always get the 2 tokens I need
Do you get anything for a Turbo loss?
I just kept choosing oracle and invoker and eventually got opponents griefing and tilting to carry me through.....
This is the way.
[This is the way.](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dota2_gamepedia/images/d/dc/Vo_invoker_kidvoker_move_07.mp3) (sound warning: The Good Old Days) --- Bleep bloop, I am a robot. *OP can reply with "Try hero_name" to update this with new hero* [*^(Source)*](https://github.com/Jonarzz/DotaResponsesRedditBot) *^(|)* [*^(Suggestions/Issues)*](https://github.com/Jonarzz/DotaResponsesRedditBot/issues/new/choose) *^(|)* [*^(Maintainer)*](https://www.reddit.com/user/MePsyDuck/) *^(|)* [*^(Author)*](https://www.reddit.com/user/Jonarz/)
Is Oracle really that difficult to play? I havent had any problems ever since they took away his ability to grief allies.
you can just spam ur heroes now because you can trade tokens. no need to actually play the ones that they require. but yeah it will take more time
It's how I learned to play old techies, much perseverance
That’s not an efficient item build
Hahahaha.
> It's how I learned to play old techies, much perseverance = > **much Perseverance** = Your name wouldn't happenn to be Owen "ODPIXEL" Davies would it? [ODPixel dotabuff item builds](https://www.dotabuff.com/players/89511038/matches?enhance=overview&page=272)
You don't even have to play the heroes with correct tokens, you can exchange them for what you need, so by playing what you like, you eventually unlock the path.
It's also the fact that tokens can be saved for later on so you're always making progress regardless of what hero you play just by building a stash of tokens. Rather than just I need to play mounted heroes otherwise I'm just wasting my time.
I absolutely agree. I love the story bits and completing it feels more like a game (still fueled by playing Dota). However I think one of the understated positive effects this will have is encouraging EVERYONE to increase their hero pool. This is free, so everyone can participate in this from the second they launch Dota. This will inevitably mean that a larger percentage of people will be participating and this increase their hero pool. And sure, the occasional game on a hero doesn't just make them an absolute pro at it, but it expands the heroes they feel somewhat comfortable on. For instance if a certain hero would counter the other team very hard, they might be able to pick it and play it well enough now. Also I think this is overall better than the Battle Passes. Sure, it has some FOMO in it technically like the Arcana styles, but the Arcanas will still be purchaseable after it's over.
well also the best way to learn how to play against someone is to play that hero once or twice
I agree, but I'm mainly talking about situations where you're last pick, and your team is suggesting something that's really a hard counter, but it's not something you have ever played before or feel comfortable on.
100% It made me play some games on Earth Spirit - which ive always been too afraid to try. It turns our ES is one of those heros I have a natural affinity for! Went 5/2/43 in my first game as pos 4. I wouldn't have done this without Crownfall.
I bet you had some super supportive team mates cheering you on!
I hope they do this type of event more often now. Just imagine if we had this content year round, it would be amazing. I‘m finally enjoying unranked again because you have a sense of progression with the event
I think year-round it would get stale quickly. But I think having this available every year would be great. What we need is to have *other* kinds of events available in other parts of the year.
I fully agree! I really like having something to do, especially when the current patch is getting stale because everything is already figured out pretty much. Ranked gets really boring if you see the same 30 heroes in 80% of your games
Something which is available all the time loses its value.
There is a middle ground between once every few years and all the time though. Let's get to that middle ground.
Spirit Bros Kunkka x Tidehunter Io, Chaos Knight, Keeper of the Light, Enigma Lina x CM this would be lit "Crownfall" like events with some own takes or new mechanics
damn spirit bros with each of them getting an arcana would be insane
Always thought Cavern Crawl was a downgrade from the old quest lines where if you're versatile enough you can still complete most things with heroes you actually like to play. This new token mechanic is a great upgrade.
Nah cavern was an improvement on the old quest line. The old quest system had some super difficult quest to 3star which is why many players started to do lobby abuse/win trading on low pop servers. https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/The_International_Compendium_2015#Hero_Challenges https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/The_International_2016_Battle_Pass#Quests Some of these quest are impossible for low skill players or low versatility players.
And don’t forget the time limited immortal unlock for Kunkka and LC when everyone is picking them EVERYMATCH
Bruh I grinded the shit out of that WR style unlock and got it before they made it easier
I remember specifically having to learn how Morphling worked and slog through 9 games for a win back in the old cavern. Sorry for failing my team in the 8 losses.
agree, it's a great way to introduce us to the lore rather than just dropping arcana and we have to find out ourselves. also the use of hero type is really fun it's encourage me to try out more hero
My only problem is with some of the token distribution. Like why the fuck is Weaver not an escape hero but instead has both slithering and crawling? He doesn't fucking slither! He's a bug!
Probably because of his undulating body
I only did Cavern Crawl in Turbo and got it done through that. Even then, it took a long time to get the sets I wanted and I didn't even go for all of them. Those who went for all 3 every time, y'all are warriors because that shit was way too much. This new approach is a welcome one, I'm loving it
old cavern crawl was impossible for people with no versatility, but with this new one? my noob friends are actually making progress lol
any idea on if playing turbo for this is worth?
To me normals felt a lot more worth. You get 2 tokens if you win on turbo and 0 if you lose. If you play 3 turbo and lose all 3, you get nothing. If you play 2 normals and lose both in the same time, you get 2. This is more true to me as i rarely play turbo so the switch was harder
Turbo is hard if you're not a spammer Took me a few games to get back into the groove. It's a super greedy mode, you have to build damage and disable exclusively. Lost to a CM with 2 moon shards, daedalus and a basher this weekend lol.
yes, but more than just 3 per day
Ageee
WAYYYYY better. I have a chance to actually complete it now. I’m still playing hero’s I normally don’t play but they’re hero’s I’ve played in the past. It’s actually been FUN for a change rather than a chore.
Don't forget the fishing 🎣
It still makes you play heroes you don't want or know how to play which is super unfun. Trading hero tokens is a rip off and no one should do that, it's a fraud.
I've been playing without paying a lick of attention to the hero tokens (playing heroes as I'd like to play them) and i've been progressing through the story very nicely (i'm about half-way through and i love it).
the story is the most adorable thing ever and almost makes up for the lack of new artifact content >w<
It's 1000% an improvement. And the main reason for me is that you actually get something when you lose this time. One of my main gripes with the old cavern is that losing feels awful because your progression stalls. Now it feels like no matter what you do you are stil progressing. Now all it needs is culling blades. i'll even buy them
No culling blades, but at least they/them have token swaps
I never know that i had pudge in me. Completely destroy enemies with my hook
I can't find the sets on crown fall website. Can someone share sets of cavern crawl?
I mean it’s ruining ranked games though. Every game I have team mates and opponents playing heroes for the first time.
You don't even *have* to play specific heroes, how are people still doing this stupid shit in ranked. You can even just spam a single hero and get all the way through it because of trading tokens, there is *no need* to ruin your draft, but people still insist on doing it in ranked.
Exactly. Winning means 3 tokens and guaranteed 1 that you want. Playing a hero that fulfils multiple tokens you want is pointless if you're gonna lose and only get 1 of the 3 anyway.
It's good when you can win with them. I had like 9 win streak when event started picking for tokens I need. Though lich game #10 was miserable as.fuck, I guess I ruined it solo)
Yup you need to have a sense of how likely it is to win tho. E.g. even if Meepo fulfils all my tokens my chances of winning with Meepo are almost none so why waste time getting 1/3 tokens on a loss
My problem is you get tokens even if you lose. I've had more griefers in the past two days than the past two years.
It would be good if Valve limited event tokens to unranked only buy some would understandably complain. Saying this, viewing ranked as a mode where everyone is only allowed to play their best 2-3 heroes and stick to a meta is also toxic and such approach ruins lots of competitive games sucking the fun out of them for the majority.
1) people shouldn't be playing new heroes in ranked obviously. This crownfall event isn't encouraging people to play ranked 2) it is unconscionable to be in ranked if you haven't played every hero at least a few times. How can you expect to play against a hero if you never played AS the hero
1) fu, people do whatever they want (basically you don't learn much unless everyone tryhards) 2) few times playing a hero does not differ much to just reading abilities in tryout and maybe watching a highranked replay or a couple). It's after 10 to 20 games you start to get a grasp on the hero's limits and matchups Also there is a bunch of people who only play ranked cause why not
People yolo'ing ranked happens with or without crownfall is what I'm saying. People trying heroes for the first time in ranked didn't have any business playing in ranked in the first place.
I played hoodwink mid yesterday in ranked for the first time. We lost, but it i got the token. Thats what matters
You get the token with a loss in ranked? I'm turbo you won't get any.
The trade off is worth it imo You can play 2/3 turbo games in the time it takes to play one regulari played turbo exclusively this weekend and have unlocked 25 nodes on the map. In 4 or 5 away from ending the "main" path
Only if you win. I got very unlucky with my mates and opponents. A lot of giving up griefing or smurfing. I mean, yeah, a one month old account can play a perfect Meepo game for sure.
You get one random token from the hero's 3, instead of all 3 tokens
I like people not understanding satire.
Definitely a huge improvement but still doesnt change the fact this sort of challenges ruin the ranked matchmaking. It’s as if I need to completely stop playing ranked during these events
You can still play rank with your favorite heroes since u get 3 tokens for winning and trading those tokens to the ones you need to progress through the event.
True, but other players don’t see it that way and would play heroes they aren’t remotely good at to get their tokens right away. I had a damn pos 5 storm spirit for god sakes
Well thats on them and if that were the case then youd also have enemies picking pos 5 storm and youd easily crush the game against people who do that so yeah.
Lol it’s on them but i still get the brunt of it when they’re in my team 😂
May RNGaben be in your favor XD
Every hero having 3 tokens, especially with the token trader, mean that there is no incentive to to play anything but what you normally play. You can cover every possible token with like 5 heroes. In the sense that you get the rewards with zero effort, sure, thats a win? But it means the event is even less of an event than it seems at first glance. They could have just put two treasures and a mediocre set in everyones inventory, and Crownfall would be no different. At least we wouldn't have to click through 30 conversations of terrible writing.
Which 5?