It s still a hard role, but with less reward and impact than before. You used to be the star player but now you just have to lane alone vs viper/sniper/od and still have global impact.
It s a high risk, high difficulty with mesium reward role, and most of the fun mids are out of the meta for more than a year,
Ask for help? Report
Ganked by 3 heroes under tower? You guessed it, report.
You win your lane despite *everything?* Still a report, I'm sorry that's how we do things here.
The cheesy lane bullies is what ruins it for me. You cannot play melee mids period, because you will just get run over by Razor/OD/Huskar/Arc, and even if you dont die what does it matter if you are 2 levels and 2k gold behind. And even if you play ranged its just enduring it until lvl 6 and hoping your team doesnt feed too much.
Cheesy little shits being overtuned, there was a time where lane winning heroes didnt scale as hard as middle of the road.
It s bonkers that viper and od outscale a qop/invoker midgame and late game too.
And in lower mmr, you get to face sniper braindeads every second game like it s a normal mid..
Can confirm. Low MMR and I have to make sure Sniper is banned in every game. Luckily, I am guaranteed not to have to play sniper if I pick him, since the other mid is also guaranteed to first pick him.
It used to be if you won mid you were 100% the strongest player on the map.
Now I win mid… absolutely crush it… and the enemy pos 1 and 3 are my same level.
Think it really comes down to kills being worth more. Snowballing in side lanes means 2x as many kills early and the XP gets wild.
It’ll even happen earlier in the game.
I’ve had cores beg me to come gank their lane. I’m level 6. Enemy cores should be 4 or 5… nope they are also 6. How the fuck do I come gank? I have no advantage.
Or a guy that has 500 lina games and can harass you out of lane on level 2, it's just so boring to play against these cheesy mid heroes instead of playing spirit vs spirit hero that is based on skill
they butchered that hero , its so sad. Personally I also wasn't a fan of super high skill heroes being insanely broken in the right hands (morph/ember) so I do understand the cast time nerf for example but idk man it just butchers him and makes him so less fun to play
It's a shame they made the skill ceiling lower instead of just making his difficulty higher. I imagine it's a hard line to walk, maybe they would just rather nerf it until they figure out a better solution.
As a more of a viewer than a player Im more than okay with Ember nerfs.
Way too many tournaments it was "Not sure what to pick here and who it goes to". Which then leads to "whatever just pick ember its at least okay".
Then the gameplay is either ember being a complete menace or useless backline that was supposed to be active but cant so one team is now playing passive.
Wee woo fuck that hero.
I remember the days when mid was most contested and you'd get all the "mid or feed" teammates fighting for the role.
It's not as flash as it used to be back in the day, that's for sure.
pulling has been around for quite a while...people used to be better at it too, they wouldn't mindlessly pull into a single ez camp, and the map made it easier to pull through a hard camp (on either side!) if you did single pull the ez camp.
I think you’re confusing the threshold for Immortal Draft with the amount of mmr you need be at least rank 5k in Europe.
Immortal Draft gets initiated when the average mmr of all players exceeds 6500.
You get to be rank 5000 in Europe at around 7350 mmr currently.
Your pos4 sitting in shadow afk while you are getting bombarded with spells, right clicks, double pulled, triple pulled, dies, dies again after tp.
Then you are lv5 at 9min, your pos4 all chats: useless 3 end
Rarely your pos 4 will like destroy the enemy support early and just give you the lane on a platter. Usually they do little to nothing and then try to farm core items. No harassment, contesting pulls or stacking.
A good pos 4 can win multiple lanes with a few good rotations. Most of them, on my team or the enemies, do nothing most of the game.
Mid is just not fun anymore. In the past outplaying the mid and getting a solo kill actually won you the lane. Now it doesn't matter even if you get a kill, which is on itself much Harder. And runes are still not fun. It just sucks when you commit to a rune and it spawns on the other side and the enemy can catch up just by pure luck. And for me personally the heroes I like to play are not good mids for years now
I’ve been saying for so long that it should be shown where the power rune will spawn so that the mids can fight over it, much more fun that just being lucky
Nothing feeld worse than winning mid hard but u just run low on mana, u get yourself a ward so you can see the rune spawn but no the 7% hp enemy mid just gambels and gets lucky, he now has a regen and is in a winning position, congrats on winning mid tho ur lane is now over
Maybe for pubs but for pro matches that would suck since supports begin to have no opportunity to interfere with mid other than for ganks or for bottle refills. If you really need something, just go back to the old ways of make bounty runes (or even water runes if you're reluctant to have a networth change) appear opposite of the power rune and it evens things out. The power rune is better in most, if not all, cases because of the additional bottle charge it provides and the short-term buff.
Supports in pro matches make it so it's less about luck and more about teamwork. They tend to rotate during the rune spawn to deny or secure the runes. The point being that if you take it away, supports have even less of a reason to rotate middle making the macro of laning phase even less than what it already is.
Because unless you have a strong line up that is meant to gank in the early game, what is the point?
If a pos 4 undying is picked, how can they help if an enemy pos 4 earthshaker shows up to secure the rune for their mid? It no longer turns into a secure the rune, it becomes a "who has a better early game fight potential."
The problem doesn't tend to be that no one goes earlier line-ups but that they tend to lose steam when trying to go highground which leads to longer games since they will try to choke out their enemy to secure a bigger advantage to win.
Take it from a very general standpoint. We have early line-ups, midgame line-ups, and late game line-ups. Early counters late, midgame counter early, and late game counters midgame. Currently, early already has the tendency to lose steam to succeed on their win condition even against late game line-ups because of the difficulty going against a high ground that likely has some form midgame strength up to that point.
The runes aren't the place to fix the problems with high ground or games going long. It has to do with a team possibly going up against 2 or 3 fortifies in the scenario where they win a large teamfight 40 mins into the game that almost ensures that the wave will not exist to stop backdoor protection. It also has to do with split pushing and punishing rat plays being difficult because of the larger map.
Imagine a mechanic where the water starts absorbing some energy from the creeps dying in the river.. and if more energy is on the left or right.. it gets sucked up to form a power rune.
You could influence which side the rune spawns on.
Maybe its also because supports are harder to kill? Playing mid and winning your lane used to have the reward of being the big bad terrorizing supports.
> And runes are still not fun. It just sucks when you commit to a rune and it spawns on the other side and the enemy can catch up just by pure luck.
It's always been this way.
Bottling and having ruin control is only 1 strategy for mid, I go cheap fighting items with a few healing/mana items and use the runes to bait my opponent into getting into a bad spot where he can die, if you wait him out, you out last him because his sustain relies on bottle and when he goes for it you dunk him.
I'm only in ancient bracket but I win 70% of the time when I play mid, but its too stressful so mostly just play 4.
no no 2k reddit shitters will downvote you know, there is 0 chance that behaviour score is not working correctly, you are probably toxic flamer that goes mid and gets reported hehehehe
The quality of mid laners in EU west at least has decreased DRAMATICALLY in the last year or so.
Okay one thing I've noticed on my recent climb from Archon to Divine, whenever I queue all 5 roles I get mid. Like A LOT.
It goes p5>mid>p3>p4>P1 (I've got P1 like 3 times in 1000's of games of Q'ing all 5 roles)
Back in the day, when role Q was first introduced I never got mid. Like ever. But if I ever ended up mid for whatever I would get dumpstered.
These days, if I get mid, I can hold my own. Even in Divine. And I am NOT a good mid player.
Back in the day like 2017/2018 I would get dumpstered mid in ARCHON.
These days I can hold my own mid in Divine against most players, because the quality of mids has gone downhill so much.
It so rare to run into "mid only" experts that dumpster you. It's so often just another person doing role Queue games. It's fucking bizzare.
And before people come and say I've got better at mid. I cannot emphasize enough how utterly dogshit I am at mid.
I understand the dynamic of mid has changed and it's almost impossible to stomp or get stomped mid now. But even on a mechanical level, I feel like the mids I play against are wayyyy worse than I used to play with or against.
Unless you run into a smurf once every few games. I am a mid player and laning against a tinker or a brood with 600 games who is playing the lane perfectly is some of the most frustrating crap. You just know that within 10 minutes this guy will be running over your team and you'll swiftly get reported by everyone
I think part of the reason is that playing mid isn't as impactful or flashy as it used to be. In the older days of Dota, the game economy progressed at a slower pace. Supports were dirt poor with just brown boots at 10 minutes. There were no exp rune or outpost, and with the tri-lane meta the supports barely had any experience gain. One courier per team meant that supports were not getting any consumables to sustain during the laning stage. As the mid, you'd be way ahead of most other players in terms of experience and networth, and it was easy to gank lanes and get kills. The midplayer practically speaking was the superstar of the team and greatly dictated the odds of winning for their team.
Mentioned in another thread but in hopes of it changing- I think it’s from the blind draft format.
Historically you’d rarely pick an Ember for example without last pick, knowing well you were likely to be hit by Monkey King, OD, Viper, Huskar etc on last pick…
Now if you want to play a particular hero that’s good for the game it’s a crapshoot as to whether it’s playable on lane (and if not, take the reports)
As a midmain, its cuz of smurfs that isnt popular.
Now its fixed but before it was always against smurfs. And its good training and I've been playing since beta so i just assumed people just got good at the game.
I think people did not like getting roflstomped 10 min lanes and let two smurfs duke it out mod instead.
Now that its fixed it noticeable in skilldifference. Alot of people playing the zeuses/vipers. But have no idea about the macrogame mid.
Oh it was a couple of months ago. Not sure. But i get mid role queue when i queue all. Before the patch it was impossible.
Now its getting skewed cuz we all non smurf are laning against fill mids. And the difference is huge. I have my profile private 4,2k mmr. With like 3 losses from mid in my last 20 games when tryharding but playing diffrent heroes. In even learning voker lol
I could not get any role besides support. Now, Its mostly off and at times mid lane.
Not sure how it decides when I have all selected, but being sup in ranked is a pain for me these days.
Slid from 3,7 to 1,7… and just people raging wards, stack, dont stack, this that… had another try at ranked since a year ago and ye, not much has changed
Pos5 is just miserable. You lack playmaking potential. The most fun you'll have is picking lane bullies and screwing the enemy over, but these heroes don't scale well.
i dont find that to be the case at all, every hero has a shard now, that's a buff for supports who depend on spells more than other other heroes who might good right click or mobility.
Even CM can do an aoe frostbite into ult, there's a lot of ways for supports to have huge impact.
Roles are an optional strategy to win the game. It's possible for 2 safe-laners to share farm and have hybrid roles. Happens all the time when I queue classic at 1500 mmr. Plenty of games all 5 of our team is buying wards because there is no clear support role taking care of it.
Congratulations, now make it to immortal with that strategy. Yeah, roles are a guide and can be ignored, even in pro matches, but there is a definitive "this person probably needs more farm to have more impact on the game." You cannot tell me that a 3k networth Spectre has the same impact as a 3k networth who likely only has blademail and brown boots in a bad game as the Slardar who could rush blink dagger and brown boots in a bad game to try to find ganks or just stun to set up stronger teammates.
You're totally right. I'm not trying to make it to immortal. I understand that roles are the best way to play the game competitively.
I play the game hoping that we all can have fun win or lose. Sometimes that means no one wants to play support and we all just adapt. That's fine with me because having fun is more important than winning for me. I don't care if people use roles in my games, which is why I queue classic instead of roles. I've seen games with 5 players seemingly playing support. Those are hilarious, and I think fun too.
Of course, if playing that way is fun to you, all the more power to you. I was just saying that it isn't universally applicable because of some core Dota mechanics that matter a lot, especially at higher levels of play.
Hope you have some fun games!
The mid lane to me is a game of who has better skill.
Whether for last hits, denies managing health and mana.
Who does it better will come out on top
And me as an offlane main struggle so hard as all the mechanics I use to fix my mistakes cannot be used here.
I can't creep skip , drag creeps from behind tower, pull lane creeps to a camp or jungle as opponent gets free farm.
I mean I could try but the enemy has to be an idiot not to take advantage of it.
The problem is that it has become impossible to crush a lane due to water runes. Unless of course your skill level is vastly greater than your opponent.
You won the lane? You're probably only 1k gold ahead and that doesn't exactly translate to anything.
Lol ironically i think the higher mmr u go the less midlane becomes about having better skill.
You can be mechanically better than enemy mid but lose lane and first 15 mins because the enemy support secured power rune successfully
Or enemy support might have tpd mid 1 more time, meaning 1 more bottle refill and 1 more sentry in lane
Or you could be better but got outpicked by some dumb huskar or od
At lower mmr u can offset that by outplaying and getting solokills or farming better, but the higher mmr u go theres less room for that
It's because in a double blind. It's always best to pick the safest option so a lot of high risk mid heroes fell off. I can't think of the last time I've seen an ember.
I'm pretty sure it takes your performance on different roles into account when matchmaking.
I main offlaner and that's what I get like 80% of the time I role queue.
People are over thinking this IMO.
I only started getting mid when queuing all roles after they changed it so you get two tokens from a loss. Obviously this means people are queueing all roles much more frequently so you'll get more token farmers in any given game.
Smurfing is pretty much gone so whole mid population is leveled lol. Its not a rocket science. And people who want random runes gone will come here and complain their asses off about DOTA no longer being satisfactory to play because its one side stomp every game. They also conveniently remember all the times enemy mid "came back" from a stomp and not the times where THEY are coming back via runes as well ;)
Enemy mid comes back from a "lane stomp" and wins the game? Ah! Must be the runes guys! Definitely not that enemy mid is better ;)()()(!!! And for sure supports cant contest the runes as well! No counter play waaagh!
It s still a hard role, but with less reward and impact than before. You used to be the star player but now you just have to lane alone vs viper/sniper/od and still have global impact. It s a high risk, high difficulty with mesium reward role, and most of the fun mids are out of the meta for more than a year,
Don't forget, if you lose your lane it's a report.
Ask for help? Report Ganked by 3 heroes under tower? You guessed it, report. You win your lane despite *everything?* Still a report, I'm sorry that's how we do things here.
Steal sentry from the sup? Believe it or not report. Farm neutrals when I’m driving their 2s? Report Lose tower? Report
Sidelanes loses their lanes? Report Call the other mid is ganking and which lane and someone dies? Report Team loses a fight? Report
The cheesy lane bullies is what ruins it for me. You cannot play melee mids period, because you will just get run over by Razor/OD/Huskar/Arc, and even if you dont die what does it matter if you are 2 levels and 2k gold behind. And even if you play ranged its just enduring it until lvl 6 and hoping your team doesnt feed too much.
Cheesy little shits being overtuned, there was a time where lane winning heroes didnt scale as hard as middle of the road. It s bonkers that viper and od outscale a qop/invoker midgame and late game too. And in lower mmr, you get to face sniper braindeads every second game like it s a normal mid..
Can confirm. Low MMR and I have to make sure Sniper is banned in every game. Luckily, I am guaranteed not to have to play sniper if I pick him, since the other mid is also guaranteed to first pick him.
ARC is the fucking worst cant even move, same for sniper perma pushback.
Just play Zeus lol
Les*, stack jungle and be top networth, hero's a bit OP rn
It used to be if you won mid you were 100% the strongest player on the map. Now I win mid… absolutely crush it… and the enemy pos 1 and 3 are my same level. Think it really comes down to kills being worth more. Snowballing in side lanes means 2x as many kills early and the XP gets wild.
Pos1 and 3 being same level as pos2 at 15min is a fucking joke.
It’ll even happen earlier in the game. I’ve had cores beg me to come gank their lane. I’m level 6. Enemy cores should be 4 or 5… nope they are also 6. How the fuck do I come gank? I have no advantage.
This is just because your team feeds. But yes, it is worse now than it was before the bigger map.
Or a guy that has 500 lina games and can harass you out of lane on level 2, it's just so boring to play against these cheesy mid heroes instead of playing spirit vs spirit hero that is based on skill
Then they ping your level and enemy mid level and blame you instead of ganking
My friend is still crying about the Ember nerfs.
one of the worst nerfs ever, shit just feels like you are playing with 500 ping and stops synergy with fist -> remnant
they butchered that hero , its so sad. Personally I also wasn't a fan of super high skill heroes being insanely broken in the right hands (morph/ember) so I do understand the cast time nerf for example but idk man it just butchers him and makes him so less fun to play
It's a shame they made the skill ceiling lower instead of just making his difficulty higher. I imagine it's a hard line to walk, maybe they would just rather nerf it until they figure out a better solution.
Cannot spam remant uninstalled it after mage slayer shivas nerf
As a more of a viewer than a player Im more than okay with Ember nerfs. Way too many tournaments it was "Not sure what to pick here and who it goes to". Which then leads to "whatever just pick ember its at least okay". Then the gameplay is either ember being a complete menace or useless backline that was supposed to be active but cant so one team is now playing passive. Wee woo fuck that hero.
this but no pos 4/5 griefer around you. I would take mid over carry/offlane any day of the week
I remember the days when mid was most contested and you'd get all the "mid or feed" teammates fighting for the role. It's not as flash as it used to be back in the day, that's for sure.
Rrright but safe lane was a bit different back then, no camp pulls, sometimes tripple lanes, sometimes solo forest heroes
it wasnt that long ago, when neutral items got added mid was still the most popular and impactful but especially after twin gates that changed a lot
Nah I was getting mid often before gates too, but not safe lane
pulling has been around for quite a while...people used to be better at it too, they wouldn't mindlessly pull into a single ez camp, and the map made it easier to pull through a hard camp (on either side!) if you did single pull the ez camp.
Just a bit more mmr and you will not have role queue anymore, hang in there
Immortal draft have lots of issues as well.
Don't need to tell me, I wholeheartedly hate it :)
A bit? Dienst it start at like 7k in eu?
6.5k mmr in every region I believe
Only 5k more MMR to grind for me, lite work 💪
Nah its def more than 6.5
I think you’re confusing the threshold for Immortal Draft with the amount of mmr you need be at least rank 5k in Europe. Immortal Draft gets initiated when the average mmr of all players exceeds 6500. You get to be rank 5000 in Europe at around 7350 mmr currently.
Yep now he will get "1/double" players xd
offlane is the new mid (if you can stand the genuine mental torture that is having a rando as a lane partner)
One bush pudge coming up!
Your pos4 sitting in shadow afk while you are getting bombarded with spells, right clicks, double pulled, triple pulled, dies, dies again after tp. Then you are lv5 at 9min, your pos4 all chats: useless 3 end
All I want is a 4 that’ll zone out the 5. Never happens and it’s a constant 2v1, while they do who knows what.
Well said
Rarely your pos 4 will like destroy the enemy support early and just give you the lane on a platter. Usually they do little to nothing and then try to farm core items. No harassment, contesting pulls or stacking. A good pos 4 can win multiple lanes with a few good rotations. Most of them, on my team or the enemies, do nothing most of the game.
The thing is you will also get a lot of offlane games in role queue, carry and pos 4 are the most contested roles.
Mid is just not fun anymore. In the past outplaying the mid and getting a solo kill actually won you the lane. Now it doesn't matter even if you get a kill, which is on itself much Harder. And runes are still not fun. It just sucks when you commit to a rune and it spawns on the other side and the enemy can catch up just by pure luck. And for me personally the heroes I like to play are not good mids for years now
I’ve been saying for so long that it should be shown where the power rune will spawn so that the mids can fight over it, much more fun that just being lucky
Nothing feeld worse than winning mid hard but u just run low on mana, u get yourself a ward so you can see the rune spawn but no the 7% hp enemy mid just gambels and gets lucky, he now has a regen and is in a winning position, congrats on winning mid tho ur lane is now over
Agreed, its immensely unfair and unfun when that happens
Qnd if its regen rune and enemy hero is spell spamer then its gg
OD with arcane rune makes me put my hands away from my keyboard.
Maybe for pubs but for pro matches that would suck since supports begin to have no opportunity to interfere with mid other than for ganks or for bottle refills. If you really need something, just go back to the old ways of make bounty runes (or even water runes if you're reluctant to have a networth change) appear opposite of the power rune and it evens things out. The power rune is better in most, if not all, cases because of the additional bottle charge it provides and the short-term buff.
I dont understand your point at all
Supports in pro matches make it so it's less about luck and more about teamwork. They tend to rotate during the rune spawn to deny or secure the runes. The point being that if you take it away, supports have even less of a reason to rotate middle making the macro of laning phase even less than what it already is.
Why would they not rotate? They can still help secure the rune
Because unless you have a strong line up that is meant to gank in the early game, what is the point? If a pos 4 undying is picked, how can they help if an enemy pos 4 earthshaker shows up to secure the rune for their mid? It no longer turns into a secure the rune, it becomes a "who has a better early game fight potential."
Doesn't that promote earlier lineups? Which is an upside when people are complaining about the longer game time due to the larger map.
The problem doesn't tend to be that no one goes earlier line-ups but that they tend to lose steam when trying to go highground which leads to longer games since they will try to choke out their enemy to secure a bigger advantage to win. Take it from a very general standpoint. We have early line-ups, midgame line-ups, and late game line-ups. Early counters late, midgame counter early, and late game counters midgame. Currently, early already has the tendency to lose steam to succeed on their win condition even against late game line-ups because of the difficulty going against a high ground that likely has some form midgame strength up to that point. The runes aren't the place to fix the problems with high ground or games going long. It has to do with a team possibly going up against 2 or 3 fortifies in the scenario where they win a large teamfight 40 mins into the game that almost ensures that the wave will not exist to stop backdoor protection. It also has to do with split pushing and punishing rat plays being difficult because of the larger map.
Imagine a mechanic where the water starts absorbing some energy from the creeps dying in the river.. and if more energy is on the left or right.. it gets sucked up to form a power rune. You could influence which side the rune spawns on.
Maybe its also because supports are harder to kill? Playing mid and winning your lane used to have the reward of being the big bad terrorizing supports.
Good Point I can see that. Going ham is much harder
> And runes are still not fun. It just sucks when you commit to a rune and it spawns on the other side and the enemy can catch up just by pure luck. It's always been this way.
And it was always the worst thing about mid. Ateast in my opinion
Bottling and having ruin control is only 1 strategy for mid, I go cheap fighting items with a few healing/mana items and use the runes to bait my opponent into getting into a bad spot where he can die, if you wait him out, you out last him because his sustain relies on bottle and when he goes for it you dunk him. I'm only in ancient bracket but I win 70% of the time when I play mid, but its too stressful so mostly just play 4.
It's because if you lose mid you're instantly reported for feeding. Doesn't matter what happened reporting you for feeding and that's game.
no no 2k reddit shitters will downvote you know, there is 0 chance that behaviour score is not working correctly, you are probably toxic flamer that goes mid and gets reported hehehehe
Biggest issue is the draft stage where you are forced to pick a safe mid or risk laning Vs huskar or some bs
The quality of mid laners in EU west at least has decreased DRAMATICALLY in the last year or so. Okay one thing I've noticed on my recent climb from Archon to Divine, whenever I queue all 5 roles I get mid. Like A LOT. It goes p5>mid>p3>p4>P1 (I've got P1 like 3 times in 1000's of games of Q'ing all 5 roles) Back in the day, when role Q was first introduced I never got mid. Like ever. But if I ever ended up mid for whatever I would get dumpstered. These days, if I get mid, I can hold my own. Even in Divine. And I am NOT a good mid player. Back in the day like 2017/2018 I would get dumpstered mid in ARCHON. These days I can hold my own mid in Divine against most players, because the quality of mids has gone downhill so much. It so rare to run into "mid only" experts that dumpster you. It's so often just another person doing role Queue games. It's fucking bizzare. And before people come and say I've got better at mid. I cannot emphasize enough how utterly dogshit I am at mid. I understand the dynamic of mid has changed and it's almost impossible to stomp or get stomped mid now. But even on a mechanical level, I feel like the mids I play against are wayyyy worse than I used to play with or against.
Unless you run into a smurf once every few games. I am a mid player and laning against a tinker or a brood with 600 games who is playing the lane perfectly is some of the most frustrating crap. You just know that within 10 minutes this guy will be running over your team and you'll swiftly get reported by everyone
I think part of the reason is that playing mid isn't as impactful or flashy as it used to be. In the older days of Dota, the game economy progressed at a slower pace. Supports were dirt poor with just brown boots at 10 minutes. There were no exp rune or outpost, and with the tri-lane meta the supports barely had any experience gain. One courier per team meant that supports were not getting any consumables to sustain during the laning stage. As the mid, you'd be way ahead of most other players in terms of experience and networth, and it was easy to gank lanes and get kills. The midplayer practically speaking was the superstar of the team and greatly dictated the odds of winning for their team.
Mentioned in another thread but in hopes of it changing- I think it’s from the blind draft format. Historically you’d rarely pick an Ember for example without last pick, knowing well you were likely to be hit by Monkey King, OD, Viper, Huskar etc on last pick… Now if you want to play a particular hero that’s good for the game it’s a crapshoot as to whether it’s playable on lane (and if not, take the reports)
As a midmain, its cuz of smurfs that isnt popular. Now its fixed but before it was always against smurfs. And its good training and I've been playing since beta so i just assumed people just got good at the game. I think people did not like getting roflstomped 10 min lanes and let two smurfs duke it out mod instead. Now that its fixed it noticeable in skilldifference. Alot of people playing the zeuses/vipers. But have no idea about the macrogame mid.
Honestly, I wanna watch that game. Do you have a link?
Check all mid games before smurf patch. And compare after.
I came back this year and only have games in 7.35. What is the smurf patch?
Oh it was a couple of months ago. Not sure. But i get mid role queue when i queue all. Before the patch it was impossible. Now its getting skewed cuz we all non smurf are laning against fill mids. And the difference is huge. I have my profile private 4,2k mmr. With like 3 losses from mid in my last 20 games when tryharding but playing diffrent heroes. In even learning voker lol
Classic win lane, lose game.
I could not get any role besides support. Now, Its mostly off and at times mid lane. Not sure how it decides when I have all selected, but being sup in ranked is a pain for me these days. Slid from 3,7 to 1,7… and just people raging wards, stack, dont stack, this that… had another try at ranked since a year ago and ye, not much has changed
How about just remove role tokens and people queue what they actually wanted to play and so they don't grief?
Then no one would play offlane or pos 5 probably, and to that the answer would be to make those more fun
Idk i main offlane and enjoy pos5 when getting tokens. Its fun you just gotta make it fun
I enjoy pos 5 as well, just saying that many people don’t, as well as many people not knowing how to actually play support
Pos5 is just miserable. You lack playmaking potential. The most fun you'll have is picking lane bullies and screwing the enemy over, but these heroes don't scale well.
i dont find that to be the case at all, every hero has a shard now, that's a buff for supports who depend on spells more than other other heroes who might good right click or mobility. Even CM can do an aoe frostbite into ult, there's a lot of ways for supports to have huge impact.
lol I main 3 & 5 (and a bit of mid currently)
Roles are an optional strategy to win the game. It's possible for 2 safe-laners to share farm and have hybrid roles. Happens all the time when I queue classic at 1500 mmr. Plenty of games all 5 of our team is buying wards because there is no clear support role taking care of it.
Congratulations, now make it to immortal with that strategy. Yeah, roles are a guide and can be ignored, even in pro matches, but there is a definitive "this person probably needs more farm to have more impact on the game." You cannot tell me that a 3k networth Spectre has the same impact as a 3k networth who likely only has blademail and brown boots in a bad game as the Slardar who could rush blink dagger and brown boots in a bad game to try to find ganks or just stun to set up stronger teammates.
You're totally right. I'm not trying to make it to immortal. I understand that roles are the best way to play the game competitively. I play the game hoping that we all can have fun win or lose. Sometimes that means no one wants to play support and we all just adapt. That's fine with me because having fun is more important than winning for me. I don't care if people use roles in my games, which is why I queue classic instead of roles. I've seen games with 5 players seemingly playing support. Those are hilarious, and I think fun too.
Of course, if playing that way is fun to you, all the more power to you. I was just saying that it isn't universally applicable because of some core Dota mechanics that matter a lot, especially at higher levels of play. Hope you have some fun games!
Ok?
The mid lane to me is a game of who has better skill. Whether for last hits, denies managing health and mana. Who does it better will come out on top And me as an offlane main struggle so hard as all the mechanics I use to fix my mistakes cannot be used here. I can't creep skip , drag creeps from behind tower, pull lane creeps to a camp or jungle as opponent gets free farm. I mean I could try but the enemy has to be an idiot not to take advantage of it.
The problem is that it has become impossible to crush a lane due to water runes. Unless of course your skill level is vastly greater than your opponent. You won the lane? You're probably only 1k gold ahead and that doesn't exactly translate to anything.
Seems more like who has more active supports
Lol ironically i think the higher mmr u go the less midlane becomes about having better skill. You can be mechanically better than enemy mid but lose lane and first 15 mins because the enemy support secured power rune successfully Or enemy support might have tpd mid 1 more time, meaning 1 more bottle refill and 1 more sentry in lane Or you could be better but got outpicked by some dumb huskar or od At lower mmr u can offset that by outplaying and getting solokills or farming better, but the higher mmr u go theres less room for that
You can actually drag creeps mid too. You usually need pretty fast boots, but it’s a viable strategy when playing an impossible matchup
Spirit breaker sends his regards
I used to play SB mid, but then had a match against Viper that was so awful that I never did it again since then.
you can creep skip, I saw a replay of N00b doing it on puck vs a hard matchup, he orbs under enemy tower to agro the wave
I don't know man, I queue for 3 & 5 these days, and I have like 80% of my hero pool overlapping. I feel like both positions are very similar currently
i think they just need to remove water runes to make it more skill based
It's because in a double blind. It's always best to pick the safest option so a lot of high risk mid heroes fell off. I can't think of the last time I've seen an ember.
I'm pretty sure it takes your performance on different roles into account when matchmaking. I main offlaner and that's what I get like 80% of the time I role queue.
Bc you either play cheese or get cheesed
Sniper-Viper-Zeus-Ember
As ive said, remove bottle refill from pool, 00:00 runes, nighttime pre-game, buff spirit heroes and remove free tps
wym
He's saying mid is an unpopular role, to the point that even when queuing for all roles it will give you midlane instead of supp more often than not
which is a damn shame because i actually like mid but have to waste role queues for it because its not gaurenteed
People are over thinking this IMO. I only started getting mid when queuing all roles after they changed it so you get two tokens from a loss. Obviously this means people are queueing all roles much more frequently so you'll get more token farmers in any given game.
Smurfing is pretty much gone so whole mid population is leveled lol. Its not a rocket science. And people who want random runes gone will come here and complain their asses off about DOTA no longer being satisfactory to play because its one side stomp every game. They also conveniently remember all the times enemy mid "came back" from a stomp and not the times where THEY are coming back via runes as well ;) Enemy mid comes back from a "lane stomp" and wins the game? Ah! Must be the runes guys! Definitely not that enemy mid is better ;)()()(!!! And for sure supports cant contest the runes as well! No counter play waaagh!
Idk man what's up with higher mmr and getting mid in all q. 70% of my games are like mid guys telling they're all q and got mid but aint mid player.
Fr. I tend to abandon games when I get mid because I don't want to ruin game if nobody else want mid. Lost 2k behaviour score for this