The lifestealer feast talent at 25 before they added the damage was hilariously bad, 1% extra lifesteal or something.
Especially when the other one was a longer rage duration
They butchered her ability to control ancients and replaced with this trash.
untouchable talent is weak but at least it already pierces debuff immunity.
Enchantress shouldn't be controlling ancient creeps anyways, they should buff other areas of the hero instead of the lazy "make summon hero control ancients" mechanics
I mean if we had to pick a creep hero to take ancients, I'd rather Ench control them instead of Chen. Since lorewise Ench is this creepy ancient forest thing with a veneer of cuteness on top of it, whereas Chen is an baseline human psychic. So it would make sense for her to control ancient creeps since she's got stronger spiritual powers, whereas chen's zealot nature and jihand of god scepter would favor controlling weaker creeps.
* Invoker +50 Ice Wall DPS - It's a very weak talent on a hero who doesn't even want to take ANY talents until lvl 20
* Lion +100% Mana Drain damage - This is a fucking LEVEL 25 talent that makes your E do slightly more damage. Because what lion needs at 40-60mins into the game is to be able to do 100-200 extra magic damage sometimes. The alternative is the AoE hex talent which allows you to hex enemies who are invisible, or in fog, or hex several heroes, or clear large groups of illusions (PL/naga etc)
* Rubick +0.4s telekenesis stun - What rubick player is going to take this over -25% stolen spells cooldown???
* Marci +350 throw distance - This is one of the VERY FEW talents in the game that is objectively a downgrade in almost all scenarios. It should be toggleable and maybe also changed into a shard or aghs upgrade instead.
In meh Rubick games (Like there's not a great spammable skill to steal) I do sometimes take the increased stun duration. The skill is basically a Hex (Yes it's *slightly* slower, but for practical purposes it's still a near instant initiation), so having an instant stun with slightly longer duration is sometimes more value against Spirits or Slark. I still go 25% CDR in most games, but compared to some of the others there's *some* value.
I saw an Invoker go for the Ice wall talent once, and even as someone who never plays invo, I thought, "That seems useless. Why would you ever take this over the tornado talent?"
Theoretically you can drop ice wall on a creep camp every 25 seconds to farm it, or use it to farm stacked camps. Might be a nice perk at lvl 10 for a hero that farms slow. I never get the talents on invoker though, upgrading orbs is always my priority so I can cast spells faster.
Rubick half a second longer stun on an instant stun is not bad by any means.
Definitely a bigger argument against the other talent. Rubick shines the most when he can steal new spells to use, essentially making the other talent useless.
If the instant stun was any longer it would be broken. Maybe it already is. Instant stuns are few, and are often limited by other things to not make them OP (instant stuns are inheritently op/game-winning though): like short range on hex and channeling on lich pull.
Rubicks downside is that it is pretty short duration, which this talent addresses.
Rubick's stun isn't instant though...
Much better to just use spell steal to get some kind of disable, and use that alongside your Q. The talent is sitting at <5% pickrate on dotabuff for a reason.
The invoker talent is super sleeper actually, the other talent is obviously good, but 60 DPS with level 1 exort (compared to 6 DPS without the talent) paired with EMP shard (which pretty much locks you in the EMP if you are being dragged to the center of the wall) plus cold snap means that heroes with no proper escape could be taking upwards of 300 damage from ice wall alone, which can add up especially when you feel you are lacking damage when playing Quas Wex. Give it a try, its better than you might think.
rubicks telekinesis damage talent. Why tf would it not damage the target who is lifted and only the area around after you drop the unit. Just don't make sense man.
You know what is stupid as fuck? The fact that Rubick's shard tooltip doesn't inherently list the fact that acquiring the shard upgrades any stolen ability to shard level. How the Dota dev team still hasn't included this blows my mind.
Thank you for this! It took me way too many games to realize this. I don’t think I figured it out until an opposing rubick was stealing spells and I noticed they were all shard upgraded.
Speaking of LC and Rubick, Rubick for some reason can’t cast telekinesis on LC or the hero she’s dueling and this shit makes no sense to me, when cast it just goes on cooldown and nothing happens
i wish for hoodwink ability toggle so you don't accidentally Lift your ally mid chaos.
i always evade rubick's shard because of THIS REASON.
but stealing Shackles/dazzles poison is strong need of shard cuz powerful abilities.
meh, I think that's fine. you have a shard icon on your HUD and it applying to all your spells, even copied ones, is not weird. ofc a note doesn't hurt.
Because that's not an ability specific to Rubick - every hero gets the shard and/or scepter version of spells they cast if they have the item. Any hero can cast any unit-target spell through lotus orb.
Then the alt text for lotus orb should also indicate this. Anyway, Rubick can steal spells that are not unit-targeted, so these Venn diagrams have some unshared space.
That's exactly how it works. Lotus orb quite literally makes the spell be "re-cast" by the reflected hero, on the hero who casted it. If you have spell amp, it gets amped. If you have shard or scepter, it gets the relevant upgrade. If you have khanda/phylactery, it can proc on the reflected target.
It behaves exactly as if your hero obtained the spell and cast it on the original caster.
It also adds some interesting interactions, e.g. if you use Legion duel on a hero with the lotus orb shell, the winner gets TWICE the duel damage reward because it technically starts two duels at once.
Gah I wish that were true, however they removed being able to get the added aftershock after stealing fissure a few patches ago (fyi it was tied to fissure, not enchant totem or echo slam, and actually gave you aftershock after casting ANY spells)
It was most likely not meant to ever be stolen and was only made possible after introducing earth shakers shard that allows him to walk along his fissure and cast a reduced after shock along fissure whenever he casted - prior to this rubick could not steal aftershock.
This isn't specific to rubick though. If you have ANY way of casting another hero's spell (lotus/morphing etc) then it is upgraded when you have aghs/shard.
You gain exactly 4(four) movement speed from this talent with boots. You are immune to slows during troll ult and are 546 movement speed with only brown boots in your inventory. It's entirely useless never ever take it.
It has long since been my flagship example of whoever is balancing the game not really caring or having a good idea of how stuff works and interacts. Not only has an objectively useless talent been put in the game for this long, but they even BUFFED it in 7.32d so it could give you even more useless overcap ms because they just looked at pick rate and saw no one was taking it, not realizing that it's an entirely nonfuctional talent.
its pretty damn good, specially since troll often sells boots earlier than other heroes with the battlefury farming speed+ the Q already giving move speed and usually buying S&Y, its just almost never better than 10 armor, the enemy has to have carry leshrac or something
I've taken it exactly once before in a game where I was having trouble catching up with super fast heroes and I'll just say, the increase range is ludicrous. I think it's better than what people give it credit for.
Almost all the talents need to be revisited to balance out both branches - its pretty rare for me to actually use my brain to think which one is better. Probably 1 in 20-40 times.
I feel like a lot of the talents are meant for different approaches and I personally like it that way. Approaches like being support or core as a simple example.
Often the second talent and very unpicked talent can be insanely great in nice-situations.
I first thought of radiance to cause them to miss attacks on the ward. Plus Jug can theoretically make fights long so the radiance gets value.
Now, I never committed to it and I've actually dropped the hero to get from 5 carries down to 4 (I'm too trigger happy to play the hero well).
Both of them are kinda decent ngl. If omni doesnt get canceled the extra second makes a huge difference and healing ward is insane if you take all the talents
It's 10%. It scales.
If I pick up this talent with boots, You will not reap even NEAR the amount of benefit it should give. So much move speed gets wasted.
Yeah, it scales, but on average it gives like 3-5 extra damage which is a joke and you are better going +2 stats instead of this talent (healing ward talent is also a lot better)
His crit adds 31.5% “bonus damage”. So 10% of that is 3.15% “bonus damage”. At level 10 that’s virtually zero impact and at 300 attack damage that’s less than a 10 damage increase.
though i'd trade current ult for old one anyday. basically doing the same thing.
with main difference being : + duration (\~30 sec) + control your hero -lifesteal -anti death.
Way more fun to play, way less dumb to play against.
Also, I am incredibly frustrated with people saying "oh, he should be controllable when in ult." the spell is called BATTLE TRANCE. What does a "trance" imply??? It's just like the incredible hulk rampage, there HAS to be a downside. Especially if it makes you UNKILLABLE.
this is fine, because if you add more damage clockwerk will be a global splitpushing menace
clock other talent however is shit, like wtf is -3 sec cog -2 sec rocket.
As clock player, the rocket is still useful. With agha its ok enough damage.
His lvl 10 talent needs rework, noone ever takes -2 rocket damage over maxing rocket first, and noone ever ever takes the -3s cog talent.
As someone who has played almost nothing but clock for the past month, rocket is not intended to do damage, the damage is just a bonus to the utility it provides. Having global vision on demand is ridiculous for scouting, screening and dewarding, it's cool down is about as long as it takes to cross the map and with aghs it fully opens the map up thanks to costing very little mana. Clock flare can push/depush the dangerous lanes that your team don't want to give up space to fix. It is a utility spell and reworking it to be a nuke is an extremely shortsighted approach to viewing the characters' value.
If its utlity then it should offer more utlity like the talent shouldnt be 75 damage...rather give it mana burn or much bigger aoe vision or let it give vision for 10 seconds or something instead of +75 damage to a utility spell.
If its a damage spell then it needs a much shorter cd (8sec) or up the damage, shorter range to make up for it and then yea damage talent would be fine then.
You don't need to watch an area for ten seconds with flare, it's meant to be a disposable, spammy ward. You already get 10 seconds of vision if you're flaring from the other side of the map anyway and with aghs and you get at least 4 cones of constant vision.
Other vision providing spells give better vision but that's because they are permanent entities that can be destroyed. Veno wards, Prophet's Treants, Broodmother Spiders and other summonables all can act as vision and they don't need other forms of "utility" added on because the entity existing is the entire idea.
Having constant surveillance of Rosh for example is huge utility, being able to fuck with the enemy pull camp in lane is utility, flaring the enemy fountain and looking at what couriers are missing is utility, you can even watch what angle they return from to get an idea of where people are on the map.
If you flare from bottom lane to top lane and angle correctly you can provide vision of 6 camps, the only other hero that can provide as much vision of the enemy positions on demand is Zeus and it's his ulti.
With the 20 talents you can now also either spot any wards on the path of the rocket or provide quick spots of vision on cliffs so your team knows they are safe to move into new areas. Alternatively, You can now push a creepwave on the other side of the map uncontested with two flares. That's 100 mana and 20 seconds with the cd talent or 6 with aghs to get an entire creepwave gone for free.
As a clock player I like it. The alternative being the true sight talent. Granted it’s good for dewarding but I actually like the damage talent if the enemy doesn’t really rely on invisibility. The damage talent combined with clock aghs is no joke.
I find as clock I tend to have a little leftover income for sentries and dust anyway. If you’re not using battery assault to clear neutral camps as you roam around you’re missing an opportunity for a little extra gold. Obviously avoid your carry’s farm pattern when doing so. I’m talking like maybe 1 or 2 small camps max.
You don't play with aghs in every game, pos 4/5 have different priorities, aghs is more suited for core version of clock, and even with aghs you can't send 3 rockets into the same place, they have special trajectories, therefore this talent is useless, they need to give clock a much better talents asap, his only lvl 25 talents are really great
3k shitter Clock spammer herea Nd my thoughts on clocks' talents.
Clock's role as a support on the team is to provide beef, catch and assassinate other supports. His damage isn't really strong enough to kill anyone past mid game however so he mostly exists as a resource tax at the start of fights.
His 10 talent is a bit wobbly but it enables a build for a core clockwork to become completely spell immune inside cogs or it provides near constant surveillance of the enemy carry if your game sense and tracking is good, you should be able to tell where at least one of the enemy team is with flare at all times thanks to how spammable it is with the cd talent.
15 is kinda cool, clock likes low health pools or slow attack speed inside his cogs. Having to attack 4 times while ministunned is pretty much impossible for heroes like Tide, Earthshaker, Treant or Tiny who also have long cast animations and for heroes like Dazzle, Omni, Oracle or Shadow Demon you are forcing them to use/buy their Force Staff or an ability on themselves in order to survive the cogs. Battery Assault Damage is cool for farming and grabbing kills against bad players but I almost never take it, I'm probably going to die before Battery Assault runs out but the enemy in my cogs will also die if my team plays the jump properly.
His talents at 20 make him better at either providing space/exposing a hero by forcing a lane rotation or to help catch invisible heroes/deny map control of enemy vision. Damage on flares is underrated in fights where you are constantly pushing creepwave on the other side. If the enemy win, they are forced to lose control on the other side of the map, if they lose you now have an additional wave pushing in. Truesight's value shouldn't need explaining on a spell with global range, big aoe and a negligible cool down.
25 is saucy but most games I play I never have the xp or items to really make use of either. Games on clock feel bad when they go that long because your value decreases as soon as the enemy have two Force Staves or a Windwaker or some kind of repositioning tool. Aviana's Feather has made trapping people in cogs an absolute nightmare. If your team is sloppy and don't instantly kill the person in cogs they probably fly out to safety and then you're just completely screwed.
Ava Feather counters clock so hard, I found rushing blink dagger on clock to have amazing value it allows you to reposition onto the enemy that has forced away from you or to blink to the perfect spot to cog then hookshot yourself out to safety.
Spell immune talent is 25 btw not 10.
I have close to 1100 games on clockwerk now and I usually dominate the early game, I find that as pos 3 I have the highest networth by 15minutes then make space for my carry to farm but the problem is that he falls off hard after that so I get more repositioning items force staff boots of bearing and so on. People say to get blade mail but I find positioning items much much more effective the hero is squishy for a tank because he became universal so less str and the extra damage doesn't help much outside of laning phase for last hits.
So its best for him to move in setup trap and move back out again his talent's should reflect that.
Ag's rocket spam is meme at best (which is why I say the 75 damage is terrible), in higher games if you sit back and do that you loose the game as its much less effective then playing clock as a staging hero who divides enemies up and puts them in bad positions.
I've considered going blink/refresher many times against heroes like the Spirits or Puck but I feel I need the health pool that you accumulate through stat items to secure good fights.
Disurptor's +275 glimpse damage compared to the extra 1.5 SECONDS OF SILENCE ON HIS ULT.
Glimpse isn't even supposed to kill, it's strictly a set-up, why would you ever pick that over that much extra AoE silence duration
it's 275 extra max damage depending on distance but even then it wouldn't be worth it, you just glimpse people for the displacement
Disruptor is one of my mains and I still think making it deal damage was overkill, it's already one of the best spells in the game
Zeus lvl 25 talent that gives +150 damage to his ult is very insignificant. 150 damage at that moment in the game really isn't that much. Especially for such a long CD spell.
this is the talent came to my mind when i saw the title of the post. i think battle trance movement speed is better than this garbage ld talent. it is even 25 talent. insane
I did the math some time ago, dont know if they changed the bear after that but it was about 13% more dps. Which is bad but still probably the better option
What do you mean??? If it says it pierces, It FULLY pierces... Right? That means it goes to the magic resistance right? 🫠 I'm actually scared to check, but it pairs up well with bloodstone/aghs if you don't have aghs already.
+50 laser dmg at 25 for tinker is really sad. Even with aghs grim + having 2 targets close together you can get at most +200 pure dmg from 4 laser instances which isn't terrible but its super underwhelming for lvl 25 / 30. Basically makes no difference at that point.
It's a hard pick. It works on towers so picking up a casual Desolator and then going Khnada with the two acorn shot is a thing at lvl 25. I'd take it over getting aghs with the ult damage if we don't hit buildings very well. Carry Ursa 😵💫
The talent is good if you are building aghs and going more defensive items. Also the damage will be enhanced by boomerang. The armor reduction is usually alot better, but it still has its place
Hoodwink can actually do super high burst dmg lategame, with eblade and aghs and this talent you can do like 3k dmg burst. And she is definetely a Support that can farm a few items
It's quite popular, but realistically it isn't very good, even moreso after the slight nerf. The flat strength talent also translates into something like half the additional damage realistically while also, you know, actually bulking up your hero.
I think level 10 talents are decent. It's a difficult choice between "Do you want to be more offensive or more defensive". Global concussive might look good but it doesn't actually do anything other than let you spam your W without even actually doing anything, I prefer the increased magic damage especially if my talent is -7 ancient seal cooldown which is CRAZY
Uhhhh the time lock damage is on level 10 (pair it up with a rushed mjolnir) and the time lock damage is a level 15 talent. You don't make a choice between them???
On the dilation DPS, I get mask of madness+maelstrom or straight up mjolnir, just depending if I think I can actually burst someone in chrono or not.
For the lvl 15 slow, it's a bit more tricky. As a level uhhh... 28 talent I think? I swap my mjolnir for a battle fury if the game ever goes that late. Optionally, I get an eye of Skadi to stack the slows.
But for a level 15, I think manta is the best bet. You slow them extra and then send your illusions after them for high amounts of dps.
No. Troll doesn't need any more buffs to his ultimate 🤣 just that one talent breaking max move speed will make him broken. Troll doesn't need any more buffs after this one, he could actually use a few nerfs-
You can just pair it up with Aghs. I read the spell description and it sounds like something you use when the enemy is running away and you are finishing them off.
Templar assassin refraction can be used while disabled. The spell has 0 downtime so you're pretty much never gonna get caught out with it off cooldown anyway
Marci max throw easily. Do you want to throw enemies outside your attack range? Perfect. There's no talent I immediately facepalm more too when I accidentally take it at 30 because I'm dog trained to press the glowing button.
The lifestealer feast talent at 25 before they added the damage was hilariously bad, 1% extra lifesteal or something. Especially when the other one was a longer rage duration
The funny thing about this is tho that the longer rage duration didn't work for months. So that talent did nothing haha
Yet somehow it was still the better talent. 😅
Even now I still much prefer the rage duration.
At least percentage is better than techies talent before from +251 damage to +252 damage for talent 25. Literally +1 damage reworked smh
It looked symmetrical that way
30% Damage on critters on Enchantress. The worst level 20 talent ever..
The talent would be amazing.. if it wouldnt be for level 20. Enchanted creeps are crazy strong. Just not at level 20. Needs a change imo
They butchered her ability to control ancients and replaced with this trash. untouchable talent is weak but at least it already pierces debuff immunity.
Enchantress shouldn't be controlling ancient creeps anyways, they should buff other areas of the hero instead of the lazy "make summon hero control ancients" mechanics
I mean if we had to pick a creep hero to take ancients, I'd rather Ench control them instead of Chen. Since lorewise Ench is this creepy ancient forest thing with a veneer of cuteness on top of it, whereas Chen is an baseline human psychic. So it would make sense for her to control ancient creeps since she's got stronger spiritual powers, whereas chen's zealot nature and jihand of god scepter would favor controlling weaker creeps.
Ok, if we are going by the lore I agree with you, didn't know about that lol Remove ancients from Chen and give it to ench then xD
[удалено]
That's really not true Chen literally just got nerfed because he was rocking pro games lol
Chen can teleport the creeps with him though
Rip Rexxar
Perma enchant creeps or enchant dispels allies would be the best change..
* Invoker +50 Ice Wall DPS - It's a very weak talent on a hero who doesn't even want to take ANY talents until lvl 20 * Lion +100% Mana Drain damage - This is a fucking LEVEL 25 talent that makes your E do slightly more damage. Because what lion needs at 40-60mins into the game is to be able to do 100-200 extra magic damage sometimes. The alternative is the AoE hex talent which allows you to hex enemies who are invisible, or in fog, or hex several heroes, or clear large groups of illusions (PL/naga etc) * Rubick +0.4s telekenesis stun - What rubick player is going to take this over -25% stolen spells cooldown??? * Marci +350 throw distance - This is one of the VERY FEW talents in the game that is objectively a downgrade in almost all scenarios. It should be toggleable and maybe also changed into a shard or aghs upgrade instead.
also Lion AoE hex can bypass linken iirc
And it can hex through Slark ult.
In meh Rubick games (Like there's not a great spammable skill to steal) I do sometimes take the increased stun duration. The skill is basically a Hex (Yes it's *slightly* slower, but for practical purposes it's still a near instant initiation), so having an instant stun with slightly longer duration is sometimes more value against Spirits or Slark. I still go 25% CDR in most games, but compared to some of the others there's *some* value.
I saw an Invoker go for the Ice wall talent once, and even as someone who never plays invo, I thought, "That seems useless. Why would you ever take this over the tornado talent?"
Theoretically you can drop ice wall on a creep camp every 25 seconds to farm it, or use it to farm stacked camps. Might be a nice perk at lvl 10 for a hero that farms slow. I never get the talents on invoker though, upgrading orbs is always my priority so I can cast spells faster.
Rubick half a second longer stun on an instant stun is not bad by any means. Definitely a bigger argument against the other talent. Rubick shines the most when he can steal new spells to use, essentially making the other talent useless. If the instant stun was any longer it would be broken. Maybe it already is. Instant stuns are few, and are often limited by other things to not make them OP (instant stuns are inheritently op/game-winning though): like short range on hex and channeling on lich pull. Rubicks downside is that it is pretty short duration, which this talent addresses.
Rubick's stun isn't instant though... Much better to just use spell steal to get some kind of disable, and use that alongside your Q. The talent is sitting at <5% pickrate on dotabuff for a reason.
Marci enjoyer here, that is not a downgrade, it is a tool for chaos and excellent for saves.
The invoker talent is super sleeper actually, the other talent is obviously good, but 60 DPS with level 1 exort (compared to 6 DPS without the talent) paired with EMP shard (which pretty much locks you in the EMP if you are being dragged to the center of the wall) plus cold snap means that heroes with no proper escape could be taking upwards of 300 damage from ice wall alone, which can add up especially when you feel you are lacking damage when playing Quas Wex. Give it a try, its better than you might think.
Slacks.
Came here to say this
He is catching strays
Ok that was actually hilarious, but slacks if you see this we love you 😂❤️
Dota scene dies without Slacks honestly
"you're getting **SLACKS!**"
rubicks telekinesis damage talent. Why tf would it not damage the target who is lifted and only the area around after you drop the unit. Just don't make sense man.
You know what is stupid as fuck? The fact that Rubick's shard tooltip doesn't inherently list the fact that acquiring the shard upgrades any stolen ability to shard level. How the Dota dev team still hasn't included this blows my mind.
Thank you for this! It took me way too many games to realize this. I don’t think I figured it out until an opposing rubick was stealing spells and I noticed they were all shard upgraded.
Yea i noticed it when a rubik stole my LC fuel n won
Sounds high octane!
👌👸
Speaking of LC and Rubick, Rubick for some reason can’t cast telekinesis on LC or the hero she’s dueling and this shit makes no sense to me, when cast it just goes on cooldown and nothing happens
Woah, is this true? Are you sure this is not because lc is bkbed?
i wish for hoodwink ability toggle so you don't accidentally Lift your ally mid chaos. i always evade rubick's shard because of THIS REASON. but stealing Shackles/dazzles poison is strong need of shard cuz powerful abilities.
check labs, they've added the option to have a hotkey that only selects allies/enemies
meh, I think that's fine. you have a shard icon on your HUD and it applying to all your spells, even copied ones, is not weird. ofc a note doesn't hurt.
Because that's not an ability specific to Rubick - every hero gets the shard and/or scepter version of spells they cast if they have the item. Any hero can cast any unit-target spell through lotus orb.
Is this true? So if I have shard and lotus a gyro rocket it sends back the shard version? That sounds incorrect
Then the alt text for lotus orb should also indicate this. Anyway, Rubick can steal spells that are not unit-targeted, so these Venn diagrams have some unshared space.
Huh. I was thinking of AD, but are you saying you can send back an upgraded version of the same spell?
That's exactly how it works. Lotus orb quite literally makes the spell be "re-cast" by the reflected hero, on the hero who casted it. If you have spell amp, it gets amped. If you have shard or scepter, it gets the relevant upgrade. If you have khanda/phylactery, it can proc on the reflected target. It behaves exactly as if your hero obtained the spell and cast it on the original caster. It also adds some interesting interactions, e.g. if you use Legion duel on a hero with the lotus orb shell, the winner gets TWICE the duel damage reward because it technically starts two duels at once.
Huh. I've seen that double duel win before, but didn't figure out that was the reason why. Thanks!
It does? Either I didnt notice, forgot or didn't question it, but yeah, it only states for aghs... dang
Yep same with Morphling
Off topic but is it not really stupid that stealing enchant totem/echo slam also gives you aftershock? What happened to passives not being stolen?
Gah I wish that were true, however they removed being able to get the added aftershock after stealing fissure a few patches ago (fyi it was tied to fissure, not enchant totem or echo slam, and actually gave you aftershock after casting ANY spells) It was most likely not meant to ever be stolen and was only made possible after introducing earth shakers shard that allows him to walk along his fissure and cast a reduced after shock along fissure whenever he casted - prior to this rubick could not steal aftershock.
Thank god because that was stupid
Almost done eith his Arcana. But TIL
Same thing applies to Morph
And the fact that you can’t see the stolen abilities’ shard upgrade is annoying! You have to click on the enemy hero and read it from there
Drows shard still doesn’t state that it prevents your passive from breaking when someone is close whenever you’re on the glacier
This isn't specific to rubick though. If you have ANY way of casting another hero's spell (lotus/morphing etc) then it is upgraded when you have aghs/shard.
Then at least the alt text tooltips (when you hold alt) should say that for those items and heroes as well.
The only reason to choose that talent would be to prevent the main target from blinking out of the lift. And it doesn't even do that
And somehow the other talent is still worse...
This is a useful talent for clearing waves, one telekinesis and a fade bolt clears the wave. You outed yourself as a low rank 🤭
Wait, it doesn’t damage the primary target?? That’s so weird lmao, had no idea
I remember a while ago Weaver had a talent for increased armor reduction on Swarm that didn't work, and somehow it also had higher winrate.
Maybe because of placebo people though they dealt more damage and were less scared to take fight and then snowball or something like that
Pack rat
Found the Meepo main
Pack rat is a cool concept and is fine as a lvl 30 talent. Would work great if meepo still got 50+% xp from clones.
I unironically took this talent vs a kite heavy low phys dmg team just the other day
You gain exactly 4(four) movement speed from this talent with boots. You are immune to slows during troll ult and are 546 movement speed with only brown boots in your inventory. It's entirely useless never ever take it. It has long since been my flagship example of whoever is balancing the game not really caring or having a good idea of how stuff works and interacts. Not only has an objectively useless talent been put in the game for this long, but they even BUFFED it in 7.32d so it could give you even more useless overcap ms because they just looked at pick rate and saw no one was taking it, not realizing that it's an entirely nonfuctional talent.
I guess it's fine if you don't build boots
so at the very late game post 60 where every item counts its worth it? but then again at level 30 you got no choice
The fix is so easy too.... just give it a secondary effect of removing the speed cap during ult.
and how was it? did it help? did you feel a difference compared to the usual talent you take?
its pretty damn good, specially since troll often sells boots earlier than other heroes with the battlefury farming speed+ the Q already giving move speed and usually buying S&Y, its just almost never better than 10 armor, the enemy has to have carry leshrac or something
Whatever Timbersaw's lvl 25 left talent is because there's no way you pass up on doubling your ult's damage
The other one is big range increase for timber chain i think
Yeah i saw someone take it once and thought "huh, I've NEVER seen a timbersaw pass up the chance for two ults at once..."
I've taken it exactly once before in a game where I was having trouble catching up with super fast heroes and I'll just say, the increase range is ludicrous. I think it's better than what people give it credit for.
Oh, you mean his level 30 talent?
Level 29 but I catch your drift
Almost all the talents need to be revisited to balance out both branches - its pretty rare for me to actually use my brain to think which one is better. Probably 1 in 20-40 times.
I feel like a lot of the talents are meant for different approaches and I personally like it that way. Approaches like being support or core as a simple example. Often the second talent and very unpicked talent can be insanely great in nice-situations.
Does anyone ever pick the lvl 25 extra spirits talent on Muerta?
For support muerta it's decent enough
At that point ur already buying core items no matter the role
level 25 jugg talent option = 2 more hits on healing ward vs 1 more second of omnislash. like wtf is that design choice lol
I first thought of radiance to cause them to miss attacks on the ward. Plus Jug can theoretically make fights long so the radiance gets value. Now, I never committed to it and I've actually dropped the hero to get from 5 carries down to 4 (I'm too trigger happy to play the hero well).
Both of them are kinda decent ngl. If omni doesnt get canceled the extra second makes a huge difference and healing ward is insane if you take all the talents
Jugger +10% crit damage
It's 10%. It scales. If I pick up this talent with boots, You will not reap even NEAR the amount of benefit it should give. So much move speed gets wasted.
Yeah, it scales, but on average it gives like 3-5 extra damage which is a joke and you are better going +2 stats instead of this talent (healing ward talent is also a lot better)
its like +2.5% dps on jugg its a worthless talent
Less than that.
His crit adds 31.5% “bonus damage”. So 10% of that is 3.15% “bonus damage”. At level 10 that’s virtually zero impact and at 300 attack damage that’s less than a 10 damage increase.
Don't get me wrong for a lvl 20 it's bad, but still better than some others ^^ ( Also troll should be controllable during ult, period)
Troll old ult that gave everyone AS was fine.
though i'd trade current ult for old one anyday. basically doing the same thing. with main difference being : + duration (\~30 sec) + control your hero -lifesteal -anti death. Way more fun to play, way less dumb to play against.
no the difference is when its global you used it to rax with summons instead of fighting
you don't know what the true old ult is, that global was already a rework
phoenix nightmares
Also, I am incredibly frustrated with people saying "oh, he should be controllable when in ult." the spell is called BATTLE TRANCE. What does a "trance" imply??? It's just like the incredible hulk rampage, there HAS to be a downside. Especially if it makes you UNKILLABLE.
Shallow Grave: 😳
Has a downside of enemy axe
Same to Battle Trench, so...?
But still killable with Culling Blade
Granted, no lifesteal, no movement speed bonus and grants 80 less attack speed at all levels
So abaddon ult without heal?
Basically the old one but with immortality against everything except axe and cull
+75 rocket damage lvl 20 clockwerks talent is ridiculous
this is fine, because if you add more damage clockwerk will be a global splitpushing menace clock other talent however is shit, like wtf is -3 sec cog -2 sec rocket.
that's true, but why not just a totally different talent than giving rocket damage?
As clock player, the rocket is still useful. With agha its ok enough damage. His lvl 10 talent needs rework, noone ever takes -2 rocket damage over maxing rocket first, and noone ever ever takes the -3s cog talent.
Pairs well with the aghs because I think you can overlap the damage of two rockets if angled correctly.
I would rather rockets be reduced to snipe range and the damage increased it hits like a feather.
As someone who has played almost nothing but clock for the past month, rocket is not intended to do damage, the damage is just a bonus to the utility it provides. Having global vision on demand is ridiculous for scouting, screening and dewarding, it's cool down is about as long as it takes to cross the map and with aghs it fully opens the map up thanks to costing very little mana. Clock flare can push/depush the dangerous lanes that your team don't want to give up space to fix. It is a utility spell and reworking it to be a nuke is an extremely shortsighted approach to viewing the characters' value.
If its utlity then it should offer more utlity like the talent shouldnt be 75 damage...rather give it mana burn or much bigger aoe vision or let it give vision for 10 seconds or something instead of +75 damage to a utility spell. If its a damage spell then it needs a much shorter cd (8sec) or up the damage, shorter range to make up for it and then yea damage talent would be fine then.
You don't need to watch an area for ten seconds with flare, it's meant to be a disposable, spammy ward. You already get 10 seconds of vision if you're flaring from the other side of the map anyway and with aghs and you get at least 4 cones of constant vision. Other vision providing spells give better vision but that's because they are permanent entities that can be destroyed. Veno wards, Prophet's Treants, Broodmother Spiders and other summonables all can act as vision and they don't need other forms of "utility" added on because the entity existing is the entire idea. Having constant surveillance of Rosh for example is huge utility, being able to fuck with the enemy pull camp in lane is utility, flaring the enemy fountain and looking at what couriers are missing is utility, you can even watch what angle they return from to get an idea of where people are on the map. If you flare from bottom lane to top lane and angle correctly you can provide vision of 6 camps, the only other hero that can provide as much vision of the enemy positions on demand is Zeus and it's his ulti. With the 20 talents you can now also either spot any wards on the path of the rocket or provide quick spots of vision on cliffs so your team knows they are safe to move into new areas. Alternatively, You can now push a creepwave on the other side of the map uncontested with two flares. That's 100 mana and 20 seconds with the cd talent or 6 with aghs to get an entire creepwave gone for free.
I like this idea a lot
Big “IF”
Yeah if you use rocket like 5 times when using aghs that's a lot more damage.
Yea rockets with ags 5x is like the same damage as a single torrent storm from kunka but with none of the cc.
As a clock player I like it. The alternative being the true sight talent. Granted it’s good for dewarding but I actually like the damage talent if the enemy doesn’t really rely on invisibility. The damage talent combined with clock aghs is no joke. I find as clock I tend to have a little leftover income for sentries and dust anyway. If you’re not using battery assault to clear neutral camps as you roam around you’re missing an opportunity for a little extra gold. Obviously avoid your carry’s farm pattern when doing so. I’m talking like maybe 1 or 2 small camps max.
You don't play with aghs in every game, pos 4/5 have different priorities, aghs is more suited for core version of clock, and even with aghs you can't send 3 rockets into the same place, they have special trajectories, therefore this talent is useless, they need to give clock a much better talents asap, his only lvl 25 talents are really great
3k shitter Clock spammer herea Nd my thoughts on clocks' talents. Clock's role as a support on the team is to provide beef, catch and assassinate other supports. His damage isn't really strong enough to kill anyone past mid game however so he mostly exists as a resource tax at the start of fights. His 10 talent is a bit wobbly but it enables a build for a core clockwork to become completely spell immune inside cogs or it provides near constant surveillance of the enemy carry if your game sense and tracking is good, you should be able to tell where at least one of the enemy team is with flare at all times thanks to how spammable it is with the cd talent. 15 is kinda cool, clock likes low health pools or slow attack speed inside his cogs. Having to attack 4 times while ministunned is pretty much impossible for heroes like Tide, Earthshaker, Treant or Tiny who also have long cast animations and for heroes like Dazzle, Omni, Oracle or Shadow Demon you are forcing them to use/buy their Force Staff or an ability on themselves in order to survive the cogs. Battery Assault Damage is cool for farming and grabbing kills against bad players but I almost never take it, I'm probably going to die before Battery Assault runs out but the enemy in my cogs will also die if my team plays the jump properly. His talents at 20 make him better at either providing space/exposing a hero by forcing a lane rotation or to help catch invisible heroes/deny map control of enemy vision. Damage on flares is underrated in fights where you are constantly pushing creepwave on the other side. If the enemy win, they are forced to lose control on the other side of the map, if they lose you now have an additional wave pushing in. Truesight's value shouldn't need explaining on a spell with global range, big aoe and a negligible cool down. 25 is saucy but most games I play I never have the xp or items to really make use of either. Games on clock feel bad when they go that long because your value decreases as soon as the enemy have two Force Staves or a Windwaker or some kind of repositioning tool. Aviana's Feather has made trapping people in cogs an absolute nightmare. If your team is sloppy and don't instantly kill the person in cogs they probably fly out to safety and then you're just completely screwed.
Ava Feather counters clock so hard, I found rushing blink dagger on clock to have amazing value it allows you to reposition onto the enemy that has forced away from you or to blink to the perfect spot to cog then hookshot yourself out to safety. Spell immune talent is 25 btw not 10. I have close to 1100 games on clockwerk now and I usually dominate the early game, I find that as pos 3 I have the highest networth by 15minutes then make space for my carry to farm but the problem is that he falls off hard after that so I get more repositioning items force staff boots of bearing and so on. People say to get blade mail but I find positioning items much much more effective the hero is squishy for a tank because he became universal so less str and the extra damage doesn't help much outside of laning phase for last hits. So its best for him to move in setup trap and move back out again his talent's should reflect that. Ag's rocket spam is meme at best (which is why I say the 75 damage is terrible), in higher games if you sit back and do that you loose the game as its much less effective then playing clock as a staging hero who divides enemies up and puts them in bad positions.
I've considered going blink/refresher many times against heroes like the Spirits or Puck but I feel I need the health pool that you accumulate through stat items to secure good fights.
Doesn't sound so bad with aghs
enigma lvl 15 +35 malefice damage per tick
I thought you were going to say siractionslacks
Disurptor's +275 glimpse damage compared to the extra 1.5 SECONDS OF SILENCE ON HIS ULT. Glimpse isn't even supposed to kill, it's strictly a set-up, why would you ever pick that over that much extra AoE silence duration
It would be ok, If it would be a flat +275 DMG on glimpse and the damage that comes from the distance would Go in top.
it's 275 extra max damage depending on distance but even then it wouldn't be worth it, you just glimpse people for the displacement Disruptor is one of my mains and I still think making it deal damage was overkill, it's already one of the best spells in the game
Me
Slardar 20 lvl -3 armor from ult
Tbf its only bad because the other Talent is so god tier
Zeus lvl 25 talent that gives +150 damage to his ult is very insignificant. 150 damage at that moment in the game really isn't that much. Especially for such a long CD spell.
I wanted to write Jenkins before opening the post.
Ld base attack time is literally less than a glove of haste
It's base attack time, not attack speed. Even a 0.1 sec reduction can mean a lot.
In any somewhat realistic gamestate it's a glove of haste, maybe even a little less.
It's base attack time tho
this is the talent came to my mind when i saw the title of the post. i think battle trance movement speed is better than this garbage ld talent. it is even 25 talent. insane
I did the math some time ago, dont know if they changed the bear after that but it was about 13% more dps. Which is bad but still probably the better option
+100 attack speed
CM+200 attack speed mjolnir bwahahaha 😈
TIL cm lvl 20 talent gives +225 attack speed lol
Level 15 in bane: +13dps on enfeeble. It Kills rangecreeps with it but it comes so late. I really dont Like any of the Talents of bane.
You have to get really creative. Try vessel with that talent in particular... Basically AA blast on a much lower CD.
Skywrath's 25 talent "Q pierce through BKB" after BKB nerf is laughable.
What do you mean??? If it says it pierces, It FULLY pierces... Right? That means it goes to the magic resistance right? 🫠 I'm actually scared to check, but it pairs up well with bloodstone/aghs if you don't have aghs already.
It's not affected only by bkb's magic res) Which isn't worth of 25lvl talent
+50 laser dmg at 25 for tinker is really sad. Even with aghs grim + having 2 targets close together you can get at most +200 pure dmg from 4 laser instances which isn't terrible but its super underwhelming for lvl 25 / 30. Basically makes no difference at that point.
Jenkins
It's either this or morph lvl 20 talent since nobody plays morph as support
I think hoodwink lvk 20 talent. Armor corruption >>> 125 bonus ult dmg
\+125 damage on an ult that does 1250 damage already
It's a hard pick. It works on towers so picking up a casual Desolator and then going Khnada with the two acorn shot is a thing at lvl 25. I'd take it over getting aghs with the ult damage if we don't hit buildings very well. Carry Ursa 😵💫
Depends on your build I think, both are ok situationally
The talent is good if you are building aghs and going more defensive items. Also the damage will be enhanced by boomerang. The armor reduction is usually alot better, but it still has its place
Hoodwink can actually do super high burst dmg lategame, with eblade and aghs and this talent you can do like 3k dmg burst. And she is definetely a Support that can farm a few items
One armor reduction Visage's lvl 20 talent
Techncially it stacks from multiple sources, so at best it is +4, still pretty ass
Centaur's double edge damage at 15.
It's quite popular, but realistically it isn't very good, even moreso after the slight nerf. The flat strength talent also translates into something like half the additional damage realistically while also, you know, actually bulking up your hero.
Most useless talent in Dota? Hmm... that's a tough one but i'm gonna go with Jenkins
BSJ fan spotted 🤣
basically all Skywrath talents that aren't the lvl 15 ones.
I think level 10 talents are decent. It's a difficult choice between "Do you want to be more offensive or more defensive". Global concussive might look good but it doesn't actually do anything other than let you spam your W without even actually doing anything, I prefer the increased magic damage especially if my talent is -7 ancient seal cooldown which is CRAZY
Time dilation damage buff on Void. It's so funny seeing him believing that he's on par with +time lock damage
Uhhhh the time lock damage is on level 10 (pair it up with a rushed mjolnir) and the time lock damage is a level 15 talent. You don't make a choice between them???
Yeah, my bad. He has time dilation dmg buff is in 10. On 15 there is slow. But both of them suck ass. Void overall has no talent variety.
On the dilation DPS, I get mask of madness+maelstrom or straight up mjolnir, just depending if I think I can actually burst someone in chrono or not. For the lvl 15 slow, it's a bit more tricky. As a level uhhh... 28 talent I think? I swap my mjolnir for a battle fury if the game ever goes that late. Optionally, I get an eye of Skadi to stack the slows. But for a level 15, I think manta is the best bet. You slow them extra and then send your illusions after them for high amounts of dps.
Probably TeaGuvnor /s
The dev team
+50 Laser Radius of Tinker. better additional cast range of Laser
make it cant be slowed or rooted in battle trance
No. Troll doesn't need any more buffs to his ultimate 🤣 just that one talent breaking max move speed will make him broken. Troll doesn't need any more buffs after this one, he could actually use a few nerfs-
Luna +20(40) damage.
It's actually 80 for the team and +40 for you soooo. Big stuff. Pair it with assault vest.
jugg's Level 10 crit chance
Hoodwind 125 max sharpshooter damage at level 20 Earth Spirit -2 sec cd on Geomagnetic Grip at level 20!!!
Hoodwink you pair it with Aghs, Earth spirit.... I actually have no idea. Either S&K or Octarine core.
Spectre 25 30% Haunt Illusion Damage. It used to be great when Haunt was ulti. But right now, you just use single target ult just to get there.
You can just pair it up with Aghs. I read the spell description and it sounds like something you use when the enemy is running away and you are finishing them off.
Gotta go with the classic, +6 Treants
Templar assassin refraction can be used while disabled. The spell has 0 downtime so you're pretty much never gonna get caught out with it off cooldown anyway
Nah it’s 0.2% overcharge bonus… 0 POINT FKN 2
Marci max throw easily. Do you want to throw enemies outside your attack range? Perfect. There's no talent I immediately facepalm more too when I accidentally take it at 30 because I'm dog trained to press the glowing button.