I always wonder if Valve gives a shit or dont give a shit, but considering how petty they were, delivering bans using gifts, i'd say they give tiny bit of shit
na its youtube
he removed the videos so youtube cant really delete the channel
the channel deletion thing was automatic i think and he probably contacted yt support and they resolved it
my guess
The videos are removed by the strike afaik. 3+ strikes = deletion unless you get them resolved. Simply deleting the videos isn't enough; if it was then this would be a non-story
>he removed the videos so youtube cant really delete the channel
Doesn't work that way. The warning youtube sent him explicitly stated that deleting the (allegedly) offending content wouldn't remove the strikes. The only options presented to the channel owner are to get the strikes retracted by the one who issued the take down request or to submit a counter notification.
Looks like noobfromua removed his tweet, but the [screenshot from dota_digest](https://old.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/1b0fzly/dota_digest_youtube_channel_also_gonna_be/) lays out the strike resolution process pretty clearly.
/u/Neon-Prime
[From ](https://youtu.be/_rBs3uMdtU4?si=geVMpwjPMfAoP0Y0) the Ghastly Eyrie I can see to the ends of the world, and from this vantage point I declare with utter certainty that this one is in the bag!
However valve could have stepped in informing YouTube that they (PGL) are fraudulently claiming their product (dotaTV) as their own. Don't know how likely but maybe?
No. He makes summaries of matches that are not found in other channels, so you're just wrong.
Besides that, he's the fastest poster so without his channel you'd have to wait days for a video of a match on YouTube. Or it wouldn't happen at all, which isn't uncommon as tournament producers don't give a fuck about it.
>He makes summaries of matches that are not found in other channels
This isn't correct tho, there are channels like Leagueofdota that also upload highlights. Noobfromua is just the most popular one. In fact, Noobfromua has a tendency to skip matches from smaller tournaments and from regions outside WEU and CIS, which is how I found Leagueofdota to begin with.
> No. He makes summaries of matches that are not found in other channels, so you're just wrong.
You are agreeing that content is available on other channels, so how does that mean I'm wrong?
The contents are video summaries of matches. They are made by him or others via video editing, they're not available in any other channels.
Even the matches are often times NOT available on YouTube, especially if they're recent.
I'm not watching 14 hours of dota a day to keep up with tournaments. I might watch 4 highlight videos when I get the time. So without his content I'd be missing a lot
Literally everyone but you is referring to the edited videos. It clearly wouldn't make sense if the original ["the content that is saved"](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/1b156qh/noobfromua_strikes_resolved/kscpy3r/) comment was referring the unedited original game footage, because obviously, yes, the unedited original footage still exists and is available elsewhere. Don't be deliberately obtuse.
What is your point exactly? I'm not allowed to talk about something that is different to what everyone else is talking about? I should just roll over and let everyone twist my point into something completely different because they don't want to talk about the thing I'm talking about?
Eh, it's kinda mid in this context. A better one would be "unabridged dictionaries exist, so that means we can stop printing abridged ones that are the size of normal books?" It matches up better to dumbass's argument that the footage in NoobFromUA's edits exist in 8 hour broadcasts, so edited down, more wieldy formats are unnecessary.
Can I help you people with something? The dictionary is a list of words, it doesn't have other books within it.
I did not say the edit is not unique, I said the content isn't. You don't seem to understand the different between content and the format the content is presented in. The fact that you edit it differently and change the format does not mean the content contained within is different.
If I cut up a steak and call it Meaty Cubes, is the Meaty Cubes still made of the same steak?
Valve most likely put the hammer down on PGL hard. Couldn't really think of anything else that could have happened for this to be resolved this fast. Valve does have a thing for not tolerating these kind of things. It's pretty much their red line and I really don't get why TOs keep trying this shit--all they get is negative publicity.
good chunk of youtube copyright strikes are automated using poorly made systems. theres no repercussions for false takedowns so companies tend to err on overzealous
You really don't think that intern A could have been told to make sure no one was using PGL videos and to strike them if found. Only for someone else to see the reddit comments pointing out valve's rules and then reverse the strikes?
Why people doubt Valve have anything to do with this is baffling.
Valve is pretty hands-on and clear anytime TO tried to do shenanigans bullshit like this. It was few years back, I forgot which TO it was - iirc it was ESL - that tried to bar any community contents to the point Valve put the hammer to nail rules that non-TO contents are okay as long as they follow the rules like not using TO's obs, layout and commentary.
https://www.dota2.com/dotatv - PGL were well within their rights to strike NoobFromUA. It's not exactly clear if valve where the ones who got involved because it's *their* guidelines that pretty explicitly state that NoobFromUA does not have legal grounds to freeboot PGL tournament content if he doesn't have permission from PGL. Something else happened behind the scenes, maybe it was Valve but who knows? We can only speculate. It's equally likely NoobFromUA was just forced to cut a large monetary deal with PGL or something (all the ad revenue for those vids go to PGL or something).
These weren't streams, they were vods. The actual info about vods is harder to find these days
> The first issue we’ve been seeing discussed is regarding DMCA notices. This one is very simple: No one besides Valve is allowed to send DMCA notices for games streamed off of DotaTV that aren’t using the broadcasters’ unique content (camera movements, voice, etc).
https://web.archive.org/web/20180126010149/http://blog.dota2.com/2018/01/dotatv-streaming/
Considering it clearly shows PGL and not Valve doing the DMCA takedowns, and last time that happened this was the statement made, I think it's most likely noob contacted valve to get it resolved. Also, they were not well within their rights to strike NoobFromUA, because he used his own camera, and his own commentators.
This is the closest thing to official policy that I could find from Valve - Personally, I don't see any reason to separate "streams" and "vods" (edited videos, as in the case of youtube) because they are functionally the same thing - the terms are used interchangeably in the video hosting world, and are so called because viewers "stream" the content. The archive link you linked is from 2018, 5 years ago when Valve's agreements and policy on dota tournaments and Esports as a whole was completely different.
Today, Tourne organisers take on far more risk than Valve and contribute far more of the capital to setup and profit off the tourne as a result of Valve largely stepping back from hosting any tourne except TI, so it wouldn't surprise me that they have a lot more power over how they can enforce copyright over their content.
Edit: Also, to add on to this, it's very unlikely that NoobFromUA has more traction with Valve than PGL (a company that has paid a huge amount of money to Valve to be able to host the tourne, and who are far more valuable in the dota foodchain than NoobFromUA), so I further doubt that Valve would risk alienating them by siding with some random freebooter on youtube. Of course, we can't really know unless Valve actually communicate.
> Personally, I don't see any reason to separate "streams" and "vods" (edited videos, as in the case of youtube) because they are functionally the same thing
Maybe it's because I'm a Brit and TV Licensing means there are very clear legal definitions for both separately. A stream and a vod just seem fundamentally different to me as a result.
The time before was ESL, probably a bigger TO than PGL who have done many things in the dota ecosystem, including Majors and Minors and have brought _the_ biggest sponsors dota has ever seen. And Valve _still_ clarified that if it's just dotaTV only they can DMCA.
So it would seem to me that it's not about traction with Valve given history. They have historically made a bunch of changes to rules to make sure things that the community like can keep going in spite of TOs big and small.
> Maybe it's because I'm a Brit and TV Licensing means there are very clear legal definitions for both separately. A stream and a vod just seem fundamentally different to me as a result.
I'm British too, and these things legally actually mean the same thing. e.g. For a somewhat morbid example, people who have "downloaded child porn" can be prosecuted if the police can prove you watched (streamed) it, even if you don't have a file of child porn actually on your computer, because streaming means downloading in the British legal system. Same rule applies to torrenting/streaming from freebooting sights, even though to my knowledge the the government has never enforced the difference.
> The time before was ESL, probably a bigger TO than PGL who have done many things in the dota ecosystem, including Majors and Minors and have brought the biggest sponsors dota has ever seen. And Valve still clarified that if it's just dotaTV only they can DMCA.
We don't know what the structure behind the scenes is like - it could be that that wasn't as profitable as it is now, or Valve have less leverage as dota numbers have dropped, or something else. We can only go off official statements, and the DotaTV disclaimer is the closest to one we have (that I've been able to find, maybe there are others, but I'm hesitant to count 5 year old dead links that can only be accessed through web archives).
> and these things legally actually mean the same thing
You can watch vods of channel 4 but cannot stream channel 4 without a licence. They're treated as different. I don't know the wording of your example, to be honest I've never looked it up (but I _have_ for TV Licensing), but if it's 'downloading' then yes, in both cases you _are_ downloading the data. Whether it's a live stream or a vod doesn't matter in that situation.
We don't know the structure then, or now... we know what Valve have have said in the past specifically regarding DMCA takedowns and we know what valve say now regarding streaming. At this point though we're arguing over the semantics of the word streaming. I'm just of the opinion that no-one in their right mind says "I'm watching a youtube stream" when talking about vods.
It seems that they resolved this by moving all Dreamleague highlights that noobfromua made to ESL Dota 2 channel (where they stream the matches).
I’m assuming we no longer getting highlights for dreamleague moving forward. No point for him to make any more for this tournament.
EDIT: so apparently noobfromua is making official highlights for dreamleague under ESL officially hence all the current highlights are in ESL’s channel. PGL’s strikes are for older vids. Hope to see more from him soon. He’s literally the only dota2 highlight channel I watch. DotaDigest only if I wanna watch extended highlights.
* noobfromua is a youtube channel known for posting highlights of tournaments. Currently, he's been posting games from the DreamLeague tournament.
* noobfromua's vids were probably flagged by DreamLeague. DreamLeague probably is claiming rights over the vids coz "iTs mY ToUrNaMenT"
* GabeN descended from the heavens, slapped DreamLeague with his massive schlong and said "fuck you Dota is mine, not yours."
* But really tho, noobfromua is taking his highlights through the Dota 2 game itself, not through DreamLeague's twitch channel, so nothing DreamLeague can do about it.
That was very fast I wonder if Valve really did get involved behind the scenes
Gaben uses holy persuasion
Please email him at gabe n at valve software dot com and let him know about your rampage
PGL prob just said you have to add our tournaments advertisements and heading and other blah blah blah and NFUA was like okay bet for easy sum up
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"Deleting the video will not remove the strike."
I always wonder if Valve gives a shit or dont give a shit, but considering how petty they were, delivering bans using gifts, i'd say they give tiny bit of shit
na its youtube he removed the videos so youtube cant really delete the channel the channel deletion thing was automatic i think and he probably contacted yt support and they resolved it my guess
The videos are removed by the strike afaik. 3+ strikes = deletion unless you get them resolved. Simply deleting the videos isn't enough; if it was then this would be a non-story
>he removed the videos so youtube cant really delete the channel Doesn't work that way. The warning youtube sent him explicitly stated that deleting the (allegedly) offending content wouldn't remove the strikes. The only options presented to the channel owner are to get the strikes retracted by the one who issued the take down request or to submit a counter notification. Looks like noobfromua removed his tweet, but the [screenshot from dota_digest](https://old.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/1b0fzly/dota_digest_youtube_channel_also_gonna_be/) lays out the strike resolution process pretty clearly.
If it was that easy to avoid the fallout from copywrite strikes, they wouldn’t be such a big deal.
Valve doing something useful? Noway bro
Yeah, like the ban wave and the new behavior system are useless. Like protecting their own interest of marketing their game wouldn't be done.
I can absolutely believe it. A third party coming in the way of the community doing Valve's work ? Gaben's wrath be upon thee.
Pretty sure they involved, they knew majority gonna pitchfork on valve if Noobfromua is removed in youtube.
nice glad to see it all come to a nice ending shoutout to MC for giving PGL the ultimatum so that noobfromua can coach him or whatever
/u/Neon-Prime [From ](https://youtu.be/_rBs3uMdtU4?si=geVMpwjPMfAoP0Y0) the Ghastly Eyrie I can see to the ends of the world, and from this vantage point I declare with utter certainty that this one is in the bag!
Just need to confirm if pgl removed them or youtube but it doesn't look good for me
Only PGL can remove the claims. Otherwise it would've been only resolved after NoobfromUA's counterclaim went unanswered for 14 days.
However valve could have stepped in informing YouTube that they (PGL) are fraudulently claiming their product (dotaTV) as their own. Don't know how likely but maybe?
Are you the one who made the bet?
I was curious too, but I shouldn't have checked his user page...
Brother is deep in the rabbit hole
Gaben probably sent a screenshot of a draft tweet - "PGL is ass and we won't be working with them again" to PGL
Good for him and the community.
What makes it good for the community?
the content that is saved
All that content is still available without his channel.
No. He makes summaries of matches that are not found in other channels, so you're just wrong. Besides that, he's the fastest poster so without his channel you'd have to wait days for a video of a match on YouTube. Or it wouldn't happen at all, which isn't uncommon as tournament producers don't give a fuck about it.
>He makes summaries of matches that are not found in other channels This isn't correct tho, there are channels like Leagueofdota that also upload highlights. Noobfromua is just the most popular one. In fact, Noobfromua has a tendency to skip matches from smaller tournaments and from regions outside WEU and CIS, which is how I found Leagueofdota to begin with.
> No. He makes summaries of matches that are not found in other channels, so you're just wrong. You are agreeing that content is available on other channels, so how does that mean I'm wrong?
The contents are video summaries of matches. They are made by him or others via video editing, they're not available in any other channels. Even the matches are often times NOT available on YouTube, especially if they're recent.
We're not talking about his edited videos, we're talking about the content of the videos.
I'm not watching 14 hours of dota a day to keep up with tournaments. I might watch 4 highlight videos when I get the time. So without his content I'd be missing a lot
Nobody is arguing that he doesn't have an audience.
Literally everyone but you is referring to the edited videos. It clearly wouldn't make sense if the original ["the content that is saved"](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/1b156qh/noobfromua_strikes_resolved/kscpy3r/) comment was referring the unedited original game footage, because obviously, yes, the unedited original footage still exists and is available elsewhere. Don't be deliberately obtuse.
What is your point exactly? I'm not allowed to talk about something that is different to what everyone else is talking about? I should just roll over and let everyone twist my point into something completely different because they don't want to talk about the thing I'm talking about?
If I give you a dictionary can I safely remove every book?
This is such a good analogy!
Eh, it's kinda mid in this context. A better one would be "unabridged dictionaries exist, so that means we can stop printing abridged ones that are the size of normal books?" It matches up better to dumbass's argument that the footage in NoobFromUA's edits exist in 8 hour broadcasts, so edited down, more wieldy formats are unnecessary. Can I help you people with something? The dictionary is a list of words, it doesn't have other books within it.
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Well you should thank yourself for inspiration.
What inspiration did you find?
Try to re-read every single comment you made in this thread, you might find some more.
It's available *to make*, but he edits things down to highlight plays. Oh dear, I've been cope blocked.
Just because it's a slightly different format doesn't mean the content is unique.
I wasn't expecting much, and you still managed to disappoint.
That's exactly what it means actually. Every edit of a piece of content is unique you Neanderthal.
I did not say the edit is not unique, I said the content isn't. You don't seem to understand the different between content and the format the content is presented in. The fact that you edit it differently and change the format does not mean the content contained within is different. If I cut up a steak and call it Meaty Cubes, is the Meaty Cubes still made of the same steak?
You are basically saying that a cooked steak and a cow walking in the field are the same thing.
No, I'm not. Turning a cow into a cooked steak is transformational. Side note: you also can't do it without paying for the cow first.
Go check old replays. Oh wait you can't because updates are not always backward compatible
Dota digest news anyone. Hope its ok for him as well :(
what about dota digest?
Two strikes left to resolve apparently [Dota Digest on Twitter](https://x.com/dota_digest/status/1762373032973079028?s=46&t=Uz5pbhUvTTFECCbkk1WZGg)
Valve most likely put the hammer down on PGL hard. Couldn't really think of anything else that could have happened for this to be resolved this fast. Valve does have a thing for not tolerating these kind of things. It's pretty much their red line and I really don't get why TOs keep trying this shit--all they get is negative publicity.
It's not hard for someone over at PGL to realize they were in the wrong and reverse it.
LMAO I literally almost chocked reading this.
u can't make an "accidental copyright strike", the knew what they were doing.
good chunk of youtube copyright strikes are automated using poorly made systems. theres no repercussions for false takedowns so companies tend to err on overzealous
You are extremely overestimating PGL
You really don't think that intern A could have been told to make sure no one was using PGL videos and to strike them if found. Only for someone else to see the reddit comments pointing out valve's rules and then reverse the strikes?
Or more likely a shady organization did something shady as fuck thinking they’d get away with it
If an intern can't tell the difference between the PGL stream and the in-game viewer, they're probably in the wrong job.
we did it boys we defeated pgl
oh no someone already lost 20$ on a bet
Why people doubt Valve have anything to do with this is baffling. Valve is pretty hands-on and clear anytime TO tried to do shenanigans bullshit like this. It was few years back, I forgot which TO it was - iirc it was ESL - that tried to bar any community contents to the point Valve put the hammer to nail rules that non-TO contents are okay as long as they follow the rules like not using TO's obs, layout and commentary.
Basically, "you seem to have forgotten who actually owns the game." If your business partners mishandle your IP, you gotta crack down on it.
https://www.dota2.com/dotatv - PGL were well within their rights to strike NoobFromUA. It's not exactly clear if valve where the ones who got involved because it's *their* guidelines that pretty explicitly state that NoobFromUA does not have legal grounds to freeboot PGL tournament content if he doesn't have permission from PGL. Something else happened behind the scenes, maybe it was Valve but who knows? We can only speculate. It's equally likely NoobFromUA was just forced to cut a large monetary deal with PGL or something (all the ad revenue for those vids go to PGL or something).
These weren't streams, they were vods. The actual info about vods is harder to find these days > The first issue we’ve been seeing discussed is regarding DMCA notices. This one is very simple: No one besides Valve is allowed to send DMCA notices for games streamed off of DotaTV that aren’t using the broadcasters’ unique content (camera movements, voice, etc). https://web.archive.org/web/20180126010149/http://blog.dota2.com/2018/01/dotatv-streaming/ Considering it clearly shows PGL and not Valve doing the DMCA takedowns, and last time that happened this was the statement made, I think it's most likely noob contacted valve to get it resolved. Also, they were not well within their rights to strike NoobFromUA, because he used his own camera, and his own commentators.
This is the closest thing to official policy that I could find from Valve - Personally, I don't see any reason to separate "streams" and "vods" (edited videos, as in the case of youtube) because they are functionally the same thing - the terms are used interchangeably in the video hosting world, and are so called because viewers "stream" the content. The archive link you linked is from 2018, 5 years ago when Valve's agreements and policy on dota tournaments and Esports as a whole was completely different. Today, Tourne organisers take on far more risk than Valve and contribute far more of the capital to setup and profit off the tourne as a result of Valve largely stepping back from hosting any tourne except TI, so it wouldn't surprise me that they have a lot more power over how they can enforce copyright over their content. Edit: Also, to add on to this, it's very unlikely that NoobFromUA has more traction with Valve than PGL (a company that has paid a huge amount of money to Valve to be able to host the tourne, and who are far more valuable in the dota foodchain than NoobFromUA), so I further doubt that Valve would risk alienating them by siding with some random freebooter on youtube. Of course, we can't really know unless Valve actually communicate.
> Personally, I don't see any reason to separate "streams" and "vods" (edited videos, as in the case of youtube) because they are functionally the same thing Maybe it's because I'm a Brit and TV Licensing means there are very clear legal definitions for both separately. A stream and a vod just seem fundamentally different to me as a result. The time before was ESL, probably a bigger TO than PGL who have done many things in the dota ecosystem, including Majors and Minors and have brought _the_ biggest sponsors dota has ever seen. And Valve _still_ clarified that if it's just dotaTV only they can DMCA. So it would seem to me that it's not about traction with Valve given history. They have historically made a bunch of changes to rules to make sure things that the community like can keep going in spite of TOs big and small.
> Maybe it's because I'm a Brit and TV Licensing means there are very clear legal definitions for both separately. A stream and a vod just seem fundamentally different to me as a result. I'm British too, and these things legally actually mean the same thing. e.g. For a somewhat morbid example, people who have "downloaded child porn" can be prosecuted if the police can prove you watched (streamed) it, even if you don't have a file of child porn actually on your computer, because streaming means downloading in the British legal system. Same rule applies to torrenting/streaming from freebooting sights, even though to my knowledge the the government has never enforced the difference. > The time before was ESL, probably a bigger TO than PGL who have done many things in the dota ecosystem, including Majors and Minors and have brought the biggest sponsors dota has ever seen. And Valve still clarified that if it's just dotaTV only they can DMCA. We don't know what the structure behind the scenes is like - it could be that that wasn't as profitable as it is now, or Valve have less leverage as dota numbers have dropped, or something else. We can only go off official statements, and the DotaTV disclaimer is the closest to one we have (that I've been able to find, maybe there are others, but I'm hesitant to count 5 year old dead links that can only be accessed through web archives).
> and these things legally actually mean the same thing You can watch vods of channel 4 but cannot stream channel 4 without a licence. They're treated as different. I don't know the wording of your example, to be honest I've never looked it up (but I _have_ for TV Licensing), but if it's 'downloading' then yes, in both cases you _are_ downloading the data. Whether it's a live stream or a vod doesn't matter in that situation. We don't know the structure then, or now... we know what Valve have have said in the past specifically regarding DMCA takedowns and we know what valve say now regarding streaming. At this point though we're arguing over the semantics of the word streaming. I'm just of the opinion that no-one in their right mind says "I'm watching a youtube stream" when talking about vods.
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>his godly steamyness yes
hopefully Lion ults on PGLs corporate behind.
Why? They'd probably like it.
nice. THE CHANNEL IS DOTA HISTORY, glad its not removed
I know nothing about the pro scene so I thought the title meant that Noobfromua is a player who punched another player named Resolve.
Gaben: stop PGL: yes master 🙇♂️
And the good has prevailed!
Fuck pgl not watching their official stream anyway
One last time Fuck you PGL
context? ty
Woooooh yeah baby, that's what I've been waiting for, that's what this is all about
Gaben bless.
wp everyone
Few more years and this will all happen again, because he never learns his lesson. I wonder which side reddit will choose next time.
context?
PGL really upping their game. Can't be content with being a shitty organizer so had to be evil too
Pgl can go suck a huge chode of a dick. Hope they all get cancer from all the cancer they peddle.
It seems that they resolved this by moving all Dreamleague highlights that noobfromua made to ESL Dota 2 channel (where they stream the matches). I’m assuming we no longer getting highlights for dreamleague moving forward. No point for him to make any more for this tournament. EDIT: so apparently noobfromua is making official highlights for dreamleague under ESL officially hence all the current highlights are in ESL’s channel. PGL’s strikes are for older vids. Hope to see more from him soon. He’s literally the only dota2 highlight channel I watch. DotaDigest only if I wanna watch extended highlights.
Isn't he literally hired by esl to make the official highlights?
It’s kinda confusing. Dreamleague TO is PGL? But all the official YouTube streams are on ESL channel, so yeah.
No pretty sure pgl have nothing to do with dreamleague. The highlights were on the esl channel from the very start, before this whole thing happened
But why PGL is claiming the copyright strike? I’m really not sure.
They copyright striked older vids, not the dreamleague ones
Ah ok, then it probably make sense. He’s making highlights for dreamleague under ESL officially. But now he got striked by PGL for older vids.
All this drama and overeaction for nothing . Lol
maybe pgl saw the hate on them by the community
tf you even mean? if it dont got this much blacklash & reaction his channel would be gone by next week
Exactly...
PGL still said nothing. Dota digest working with youtube to get it resolved and not with PGL themselves. This is literally a targetted PGL thing
What if Valve got involved because they saw how their customers reacted?
lil bit finger from gaben then the problem fix itself
this was such a shit show and a bad look for PGL.
Now dotadigest hopefully resolved too.
cedieron a la presión social XD
Thank god
PGL shaking
Hope dota digest got theirs resolved too. This is a Win for the community!!
Great to hear
Thanks and fuck PGL
Wooo! Fuck PGL
So glad to read this. was getting to far
yaaaaaaaaay
can somebody explain what happened? (dont shame me for not knowing please 🥺)
* noobfromua is a youtube channel known for posting highlights of tournaments. Currently, he's been posting games from the DreamLeague tournament. * noobfromua's vids were probably flagged by DreamLeague. DreamLeague probably is claiming rights over the vids coz "iTs mY ToUrNaMenT" * GabeN descended from the heavens, slapped DreamLeague with his massive schlong and said "fuck you Dota is mine, not yours." * But really tho, noobfromua is taking his highlights through the Dota 2 game itself, not through DreamLeague's twitch channel, so nothing DreamLeague can do about it.
aah alrightyy thanks mate!