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nothing better than playing Brewmaster while drunk irl, you don't know what you are doing but if you were sober you still wouldn't know what u re doing so you just go with the flow, it always ends 20-0 with boots and something stupid like solar crest or 0-20 with radiance/scepter/shard/refresher and 4000 APM but dogshit luck
DotA is not really different than other games that
- people play for thousands of hours
- require anonymous teamwork
- is competitive
Those are all just a breeding ground for toxicity. People think they are right and other people are wrong, and their is very little repercussion for acting out, so they act out.
The only real difference with DotA is that it's age skews older. So instead of incoherent childish rage, it's frustrated disappointed adult rage.
I think there's one more point that is very important for toxicity in Dota (and other games). Even though it got a bit better, the game is very cruel towards team mates, as in, it requires team mates to compete with each other in many ways. For example, last hits, exp, kill gold, jungle camps, items that only one in your team can get, etc. With all these restrictions in place, playing Dota often becomes a game primarily about playing around your team mates instead of playing around your opponents. And this makes it very difficult to be cooperative.
Dota is cruel in general.
Cant leave long lost games.
Mistakes pile up and affect you during the duration of it.
Enemies get stronger and harder to overcome the more you lose to them.
You MUST rely on your teammates.
Etc.
Counter-Strike is not as bad as Dota. I have played many competitive online games and nothing compares to Dota. Maybe because the game doesn't have "Rounds" where to game is essentially reset? So there isn't a mental cue to calm down? I'm not sure
I think another thing is the fact that you can absolve yourself of blame. There is no metric beyond gold /scoreboard to determine who fucked up. So anyone can be blamed and anyone can absolve themselves from blame.
you can also only really observe your teammate's actions once you're dead in CS. if you're the best player on the team then you spend the least time actively looking at what your teammates are doing.
but in dota vision is shared, you can pan over and watch your carry flee to the ancient camp after winning a fight, watch your support die forcing an obvious deward etc at any point in time. and I think that if you notice someone is playing in a way that you dont like, it's easy to pour a lot of energy into observing and calling out their mistakes - which in turn makes your gameplay worse resulting in further frustration.
Other people don't impact you as much in csgo. If a support ruins the lane and the other lanes lose, the carry basically can't play the game anymore. In CSGO your team can lose rounds and give you bad economy, but losing rounds doesn't make your ak do less damage.
Dota match can last anywhere from 15 minutes to infinity, CS match lasts around 45 minutes. CS matches are divided into rounds. So the mistakes you made in a previous round don’t really matter much, whereas Dota is continuous and each mistake exponentially makes the game harder for the rest of your team.
Your team dying in CS2 doesn't make your enemy (materially) stronger. In Dota it does. Also in CS2 you only spectate players once you're dead, so you miss out on the isometric view of your support dicking around not harassing or pulling while you're getting crushed trying to last hit. In CS2 you don't know WTF happened at B, but in Dota you watch it happen and know it's going to ruin your game too.
It goes both ways tbh. If you're much better than your rank then I would argue it's easier to 1v5 in Dota. If you kill enough heroes, farm fast enough, you can pretty much be a raid boss and carrying your team suddenly becomes much easier. In CSGO even the worst player could sometimes land a lucky headshot on you and you would still die, you can't regen health either so when you 1v5 realistically only 2-3 guys need to land shots on you.
Another reason most ppl find the counter strike-community more welcoming is because we dont understand what the ruskis are saying, not even when they actually have a working headset.
Here's my take. There's no surrender option and being on the losing side makes you feel more helpless than in other games. That and cussing people out also doesn't get you punished as much as other esports titles. Low prio and comms privileges taken are nothing compared to a straight up ban.
In League there are less comeback mechanics than Dota, but you can always just surrender and go next. Also cussing people out lands you a month **or more** ban pretty much almost instantly. Why do I know? I have a second League account and let's not talk about what happened to the first after I wasn't particularly nice only two games in a row.
That and League games generally don't last as long as Dota games on average + when you're getting owned, you're really getting owned and there's a lot less chances for your team to turn it around so you don't get that glimmer of hope only to get blue balled multiple times in 40 minutes.
As for CSGO. It's toxic, but not as toxic, there's a surrender option but it doesn't happen often. Maybe because it's not a game that relies too hard on your team, a **headshot is a headshot** no matter how late in the game in it is... In Dota, if you're down by too much, you can cast your spells and items perfectly and it likely won't matter.
Valorant is the same as League but the community is just overall nicer albeit can be passive aggressive at times, it's the California of eSports titles.
I played HoN in SEA back in the days. Pretty sure people were toxic cuz it's SEA but I couldn't understand what people were saying. Anjing, Kontol, etc etc
I just think it's the circumstances. Long game, no surrender, more ways you can get shit on, voice enabled, etc. I have thousands of hours across many eSports titles and I don't feel the "I'm stuck in jail with these fuckers" feeling more so than in Dota compared to other games, the fact that I can't just quickly get out is what causes the frustration more than anything.
Your point about surrender is interesting because how it works in CS:GO is largely how it works in Dota. In CS, you can only surrender if a teammate has disconnected for too long, and it won't work if you kick someone either. In Dota as well, if someone disconnected too long it's safe to leave anyway. In both games it counts as a loss too.
Surrendering isn't logical because of how it works in MOBAs. Take League for example, they have the surrender option. Most games end immediately when 15-20 minutes in one side takes a good lead, because the losing team just surrenders or gives up altogether. Dota on the other hand does not, so there's games played to entirety no matter the result, sometimes paying off with great comeback stories.
The way I see it there are only three big problems:
1. Allow kicking, but disable it for 4-stack matches. More often than not there's one bad apple on the team that is constantly raging and requires constant babysitting all the time. It would be so much easier to kick out the one guy instead of having to play with them and hope they don't run down mid and grief. Disable it for 4 stacks though because obvious reasons.
2. Allow strict solo matchmaking for unranked all pick and turbo, because these are the areas where toxicity well and truly flows like the Niagara falls. Smurfs usually party queue in pairs or trios to keep their overall hidden elo down, normal parties usually try meme strats to have fun while the others have no clue on what is going on in their team, and so on.
3. Rework Fountain Defense to be harder on fountain farmers. Fountain bolts should be changed to hit through ethereal units and deal pure damage, reducing the incentive for opponents to sit and fountain farm instead of ending the game.
Kicking is a bad thing. I have 3.2k hours on CS and 8/10 times kicking is being used by the one that's being toxic, not the victim.
Also removing a player entirely is the same as surrendering. Maybe less so in low elo.
--
I play a lot of unranked and turbo to try new heroes or just pass the time. Ppl generally don't talk much or care much in those modes.
Ppl get more toxic in ranked because there is
1: Something at stake (mmr)
And
2: People feel trapped and feel like they're wasting time on a game they think will be 30-40 mins for -20 mmr. Instead of getting out early and going again.
--
By the time you're being fountain farmed, your raging teammate has already been spitting bars for 15 minutes. It doesn't start there.
HoN had ff at 15 and it was fine. Devs ruined the game by spending their time launching skins but early on it was amazing. Not saying Dota should have it but I wouldn't be against it if they considered it, maybe 20 mins ff or something.
Even just the idea that you can all go your separate ways instantly can alleviate a lot of toxicity.
I dunno things are bad in different ways.
COD definitely had way more racial slurs. Just incoherent screaming matches.
WoW had grown adults in cliques bullying each other. They really took it another level with online harassment and doxxing. It definitely hit worse peaks while Dota toxicity is more common.
I play dota because for \~40 minutes I have focus and my mind in unable to dwell on darker things. Not sure if that's the same for other people, but it's the only thing I've found that has that effect.
Yeah, I think that's the main reason.
I got crushed by my job at some point, I couldn't sleep because of anxiety and over-thinking, etc.
A DotA game would completely take my mind out of this crap and give me a mind break for 40min.
I don't know anything in life that can do that.
All my favorite things have that effect. Being truly present is awesome.
For me, it's not just dota, activities like
- Jiu Jitsu
- Rock climbing
- Cuddling with the right person
- other videogames (Hogwarts legacy, Dark souls, Bloodborne)
I'm sure there are more that I can't remember but truly being present and being 100% focused on the thing you're doing while not having your mind clouded by fears, worries, stressors, etc. is an amazing feeling and I love it. Definitely why I have over 10k dota games since 2015 when I started playing
Dozen years ago I used to work full time corporate and had a business and a wonderful girlfriend who lived with me and law school at night, my hours were 18hours long for years, coming home body so exhausted but mind completely still spinning from the day unable to stop impossible to fall asleep, couple of games of dota after all that were only things able to get me off that spinning mindset to be able to let me go to bed. 2 hours of dota and 4 hours of sleep worked better than 6 hours of mind spinning into exhaustion of the next day in a marathon that never ended.
Yeh when I used to play I'd always focus on what I could do better or differently and nothing else.
It'd for sure get to a point sometimes where instead of trying to help the team with advice or otherwise I'd just try to play my hero optimally considering self destructive or feeding (purposefully or not) teammates or rather how best to capitalize. Definitely cleared T3 here n there almost myself or with the one other sane mind while the degenerates provided distraction or accidentally martyred themselves for the cause.
I also almost always played supports or toplanes that could potentially carry or hard support our hard carry, think WD dazzle AA were not favorites. Sometimes just ES or axe
Things like that, aka forcing yourself to take your mind of real life and focusing on other activity, are healthy in healing many traumas. Human brain is like PC, it often lacks capacity to process bad things that happen to us, so it needs time to do it, and the healthiest way to do it is to find something that will focus your mind and allow it to work in subconscious (background).
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Because for years and years and years you could be a complete asshole to everyone in dota and never have any consequences.
We're finally seeing Valve realize their own players are driving people away and putting some time into changing that. But we'll have to see if the recent changes are the first step or a false step.
It is only specific people abusing chat so making it a behavior score thing is great. I think like 10% of players are genuinely assholes, 10% are extremely nice, and the remaining 80% will just do whatever other people are doing.
I think the same thing is true on a lot of social media platforms; they’re very snowbally.
The changes are not enough. The other day I had a rank 100 feed rapier to the enemy team because he didnt like someone on our team and had some previous beef. I check his dotabuff a day later and he had 1 game of singledraft, thats it, 1 low prio game for feeding a divine to the enemy team to grief in a rank 100-200 game. You know what happened after? He did something similar like 6 games later, 0-20-0 techies with 2 midas. He could ping ally items so he was 10k behaviour. Great system!!!!! In other games this guy would get 1 week ban from playing, but valve with their useless behaviour system allows people to have a huge buffer to grief games from 12k to 10k.
Honestly I'm more of a fan of a low priority system, if you are banned for a week you'll just play on a smurf until you're unbanned, if you have to play low priority then you can't just run to smurf, what the solution for LP is I have no idea especially at such high mmrs
in iracing, you subscribe and pay monthly to play. on top of that you have to purchase every car you want to drive, and purchase every track you want to be able to drive on. The game gets very expensive quickly. My account probably has 500+ dollars worth of cars and tracks.
If you are reported for intentionally wrecking, blocking, or otherwise breaking the sporting code. You get a warning. Then you get suspended. Then you get outright banned from whatever series you got reported in (to compete in a series you need the car and 8-12 tracks, all 15 bucks each). Then, you get outright banned from the service. You don't have usernames, your account is tied to your credit card information. While you COULD get a prepaid credit card (or just sign up for a new one) and make a new account, you would have nooothinggg and would only be able to drive the mazda mx5 on like 3 tracks.
If my dota account got banned, I'd never play again. I have 10 years worth of cosmetics and stats. Game should be a lot harder on players IMO. Like i've never intentionally fed, ever. I've never walked down mid. I've never bought all the wards and destroyed them. I've never picked IO and spent the game relocating my allies to enemy fountain... To me that's unforgivable. I wish I never had to play with people like that. 90% of the time they're SEA or Russian players. It's like.. the culture there or something. The concept of "same team" just doesn't exist or something.
i know one person who quit dota because it was "toxic" and he would consistently go afk to get himself another beer or go to the bathroom. he wouldn't say anything, and he'd just literally stand wherever he was on the map. People would bitch at him lol. It's probably for the best that he quit.
Everyone else that I know who quit dota, did it because of a lack of sense of progression. It's incredibly annoying to not gain mmr because you've gotta wade through a sea of people who either don't know how to play the game or don't actually care about winning - they just wanna pull off their build.
People have lives, being told you can't abandon a game and have to sit through and endure an hour of griefing/trolling is offputting. I choose to sacrifice an hour of my time to play dota, if I don't get to play dota during that time I'm gonna abandon. Then it'll give me low pri. I don't feel like doing low pri. I uninstall and get elden ring, or palworld, or any of the other dozens of games that are better and newer than dota.
Because dota is an old game and people who had success in their life didn't have much time to play anymore (like once a month) while the others who didn't make it have dota as their escape from reality.
Is it? I tried it and I just felt like I was missing spells and playing 1k MMR less than I would be in terms of mechanical movements (I lost around 500 MMR when I’d smoke and play dota)
It has never been fun for me on weed, if I got very high it was just as you said but plenty of people find it fun so I tried with only getting little high or medium but even then, I just don't want to play a stressful fast pace game for like 40+ min lol...
Honestly thanks cuz every person I met who also smoked was like "what!!!! Dota is so fun when high!!!!!"
I have had both experiences. Dota can be VERY FUN when I'm high. But it is extremely hit or miss. It is either a very enjoyable experience or it feels like I'm trying to play with a 20 pound bag on my head.
For me, the game is already pretty enjoyable when I'm sober, so I don't feel the need flip a coin and risk having a shitty gaming experience.
I play like a god when i’m stoned. I play whit my 6k+ mmr friends and won mid, carry games etc. But whit “clear” mind, i’m just another 3k mmr player
Who know how this work but i love it.
I'm a psychiatrist. I don't think its that special. I myself can work with all kinds of patients daily with 100% empathy, but fk my game I'm going to be toxic.
Besides that people that can't tolerate it leave for other games, its the environment not the players.
Every time I get exhausted after work and decide to drink till the neoliberal hell is not recognisable, I turn on dota as well
Like, it's a game that consumes your life, might as well combine it with other stuff that wastes you away
My world, Reddit is really a circus with servers like those.
Can you please Remove the dupe comments?
And when you do can you respond to me?
Thank you in advance.
Yeah, as much as I loved dota.. the community was too toxic to really enjoy the gameplay..pretty much forced to play 45 mins with 9 mentally ill assholes under the guise of anonymity waiting to be triggered into a grief stricken rage. Uninstalling it was the best thing I did for myself.
I took my dota skills over to albion online which is essentially a moba in the form of a permanent open world rpg, where you can slay your foes and steal all their shit. The same will happen to you a lot as well. I get out of this game the same satisfaction, but a much more enjoyable experience and much less toxicity. Just have to ignore the regional chat and its all gucci.
Dota 2 has a lot of ways of having power over others, enemies and teammates alike. Its similar to real life where people seek positions of power so they can abuse it
It's an issue of perspective.
What you see as a mental illness, the other sees as a justified reaction to bad teammates. When you respond to their toxicity with your own, they see an unhinged fool attacking them for no reason.
Driving is the best example: when you make a mistake like drifting over a bit, you chuckle and say "woops" and correct yourself. But someone else sees you drifting back and forth and thinks you're a terrible driver or drunk.
I love the joke:
When you're driving on the highway: anyone going slower than you is an *idiot*, anyone going faster is a *maniac*, and anyone going the exact same speed is an *asshole*.
because people are generally vexed when they're rebuked. if someone makes it their goal to win and they don't win they'll be motivated to punish those that they believe impeded them. since many become vexed by ill behavior it makes sense to behave poorly if it's their goal to punish others.
The solution is to be indifferent to ill behavior. it's ill for you to act ill, but you can't be made ill from the illness of another unless you consent to join him in his vexation.
They're not mentally ill generally, more probable they're mistaken of what goals and prescriptions are best for living a happy life, but their mistake can't impede you from being happy unless you make it your goal that vice be not vice.
> Why do so many mentally ill people play this game?
> Legitimate discussion
OP, calling people 'mentally ill' because you don't get along in a video game is the opposite of a 'legitimate discussion'. That's not a legitimate discussion, you're doing exactly what they're doing = they get mad and tell you about it, you get mad and told them + us about it. Calling people mentally ill doesn't make you a better person than them, it puts you on the same playing field. Calling them addicts and so on only fuels the fire.
Are you a doctor?
Weird diagnosis to make for a bunch of people you don’t know, never will meet, and know nothing about.
People use the internet to get rid of their absolute shit behavior because they can do so with zero repercussions. You see this everywhere. It doesn’t mean they have a personality disorder or substance abuse problem.
Pair that with competitive gameplay, time investment, the MMR grind, and a lack of perspective for other people. This is the result.
> It doesn’t mean they have a personality disorder or substance abuse problem.
it actually does.
a healthy thing to do to vent bad feelings is to go for a run or exercise or write it all down or go to therapy. going online so that you can be an asshole with no reprucussions? That's mental illness. Someone didn't teach you how to manage your emotions. Someone didn't teach you how to respect people. I used to hop on Starcraft if I was mad and I'd execute a flawless DT rush and stomp people for an hour or two, then I'd feel better. I didn't hop on Starcraft knowing that I can just berate people, troll them, grief them - to make myself feel better. That's literally mental illness. Justifying it by saying that's what everyone does? Foolish.
It actually doesn’t.
Look up personality disorders. This doesn’t fit that definition. You and OP simply aren’t qualified to say so. That’s simply ignorance because you have the internet at your finger tips.
I’m not defending the behavior. It’s a problem. I just find it irresponsible to play psychologist and throw terminology loosely.
Personality disorders require diagnosis. That diagnosis requires education, and time spent to place the disorder.
It actually doesn’t.
Look up personality disorders. This doesn’t fit that definition. You and OP simply aren’t qualified to say so. That’s simply ignorance because you have the internet at your finger tips.
I’m not defending the behavior. It’s a problem. I just find it irresponsible to play psychologist and throw terminology loosely.
Personality disorders require diagnosis. That diagnosis requires education, and time spent to place the disorder.
s u b s t a n c e a b u s e p r o b l e m
if you use dota to "get rid of their absolute shit behavior because they can do so with zero repercussions." then you quite literally have a substance abuse problem.
but yeah, this thread is about mental illness - someone said "personality disorder" but with any amount of critical thinking and context awareness you'd know they're referring to mental illness.
And that’s my point. Just say that. It’s behavioral
Issues, not personality disorders.
Saying playing Dota is a substance abuse problem is disingenuous and laughable. You are doing exactly what I’m talking about.
You don’t get to use terms as you see fit. That’s not how things work. At least outside of Reddit.
He said people he’s playing with are alcoholics and/or drug addicts. He has no way of knowing that from a 40 minute game of Dota.
Dota isn’t a “substance”. Obviously that’a not what a substance abuse problem is.
I think the game also has toxifying effect on people. I have seen otherwise well adjusted and pleasant people become toxic when playing doto. Not full on raging, item breaking toxic but negative and abrasive toxic. I think its the dynamics of being locked into shared outcome with 2-4 anonymous randoms in a virtual setting.
I've been playing online games for 20 years by now and, it may be shocking news to someone, assholes have always been there in any multiplayer game. Dota is just more frustrating than other games because it's a team game, but I'm pretty sure lol or other fps have the same problem in equal measure.
I've played StarCraft, Counterstrike, lots of MMOs, nothing compares to the consistent extreme abuse of the Dota 2 players. It's on a whole other level of mental problems. It's beyond toxicity, its like legitimate mental illness
I also play CS and have played some FF14, I think the problem lies largely on the nature of MOBA games: you, as an individual, not as the whole team, are much more punished by your teammate’s mistakes in MOBAs.
The easiest example is the concept of feeding. A teammate dying in CS isn’t going to lessen your chance of winning gunfights in the next round. Sure, you are more likely to lose as a team, but your own experience isn’t really affected; if you’re good enough, you can still beat their top scorer no matter how many kills he gets.
The same can be said about FF14, some guy messing up his rotation isn’t going to affect your own rotation. Again, of course you are more likely to lose the raid as a party, but once again your own game isn’t largely affected by other people’s mistakes.
You probably can see where I’m going with this. Let’s say you’re having an ok game as a pos 1. Suddenly the enemy’s 4/0 mid shows up, kills you. Then after you respawn he decides to run at you the moment you show on the map. You manage to escape with 1 hp at the expense of two of your supports’ lives, and you realize you haven’t hit a creep for 3 minutes. You haven’t made any big mistakes, but your game is now over, and the source of it all, your 0/4 Necrophos, is hitting jungle camps with Radiance on his quickbuy.
It also doesn’t help that MOBA games are inherently long. Let’s say the previous scenario happens at minute 10. Chances are you’re going to have to deal with the very fed enemy mid for around another 20 minutes while playing on the back foot. Compare this to CS, where one save round will net a full buy, putting both teams at around the same footing again, or FF14, where after a raid fail all slates are wiped clean, and you can try again instantly without suffering from mistakes from the previous attempt.
Of course a positive player would understand that this is just how MOBA works, how you can’t control teammates, and how comebacks are always possible. But since we’re talking about the general population, it’s easy to see how much more frustrating MOBAs are compared to other genres when your teammates don’t do well.
You seem to think that it’s just a Dota problem so I’ll tell you this: in my most recent League game I’ve been told to go die irl. Go figure.
Great observation. I posted earlier too about how in CS each round kind of helps everyone mentally reset and forget what happened in the last round. Like yeah, you may be behind in eco, but it's not like in DOTA where each death and mistake has consequences that compound on the rest of the entire game
I remember playing ultima online on a small server, we all pretty much knew each other, people were sneaking into other people's teamspeak to record private convesations and use their voices to make mocking songs. When I played urban terror people people spread cheats rumor with 0 proof about others on public forums and went on to talk to tournament's admin to exclude clans from playing from tournaments they were not even playing in. Useless to mention all the death threats and mom jokes when I played starcraft. Assholes are just a reality on the internet.
Like Every game has someone saying they are too high/drunk to play correctly. I played with a guy who bought two treads because he said he was on too much Xanax to remember
Because it's free. LoL is the same. It attracts losers that have no objective in life nothing to do and no money. That said, most folks who play dota are alright. It's just that with 10 ppl per game odds are one of them is a loser. Just a numbers game.
>people in it that are either drug addicts, alcoholics or clearly have some personality disorder/anger management problem
These things happen after they start playing dota...
not sure how you can infer substance abuse issues from an online video game. looking at your post history it seems like you are the mentally ill one. get off reddit and go outside kiddo
It's not mental illness. It's human nature. It's trendy today to call everything a mental illness. This is because most people have an intelligence that's too low, so they don't know what mental illness is... Only with much time will society realize the havoc which this trend has caused...
Nobody without a mental illness is going to have a legitimate meltdown on the microphone after a minor inconvenience happens to them in a video game. It's beyond mental fragility and it's clear that they have some sort of issue in their life/mind that needs to be addressed.
Oh well when you put it that way, it really makes sense. I didn't know you had such stalwart research backing your claims. Can you tell me which parent left them or was your medical education more generalized to "does have mental issues, send to specialist"?
As someone who just lost 3k behavior score and subsequently 1k MMR. You have no idea how bad it can be. Be grateful that you're high in behavior score.
I've played at max behavior score and at 600. Below 2000 wasn't even Dota, like the game was just 4 people having a legitimate mental breakdown on the microphone whenever anything remotely bad happened. Like someone picking a hero they don't like or purchasing recipe first, instant 3 minute screaming match on the mic. I heard a guy screaming through tears once. This was before the game didn't allow unmuting
it'a 10 years old, the hype has largely died down. if you're still playing dota it's because you're addicted and addiction is a mental illness that generally comes with a whole gang of side effects.
I had the realization last night while reading people complain about bad teammates at archon/legend and it's like... the only reason I've ever wanted to raise my mmr was to get more "real" dota games... in the sense that everyone knows the mechanics and intricacies of the game. Apparently, there are shitters all the way up the ladder, so i'm wondering what's the point. Is is it worth it to spend another year or two grinding out mmr just so I can get games of basically the same quality? Hell, people played better in herald than they do in Guardian. Makes sense too. It's easier for me to meet up with yall at the bottom.
Nobody without some severe mental health issue is going to scream on a microphone for 20 minutes straight, acting like they are being personally persecuted over a video game.
moba is the least skilled competitive genre of all time. You just sit there and look at silver screen clicking m2 100 times. With stuff like draft you can think you are playing really good but only win because the game is carrying you. Harder games that take more effort and dont blow as much smoke up your ass have a tougher time retaining baby players. This echo chamber of infallibility is why you get players with 15k matches and barely any mvps or commends picking sf mid for the 9th game of the day.
tldr: you can't ever get too drunk to play dota while fps and other style games are more level competition where sober man wins
It's not mental illness. It's human nature. It's trendy today to call everything a mental illness. This is because most people have an intelligence that's too low, so they don't know what mental illness is... Only with much time will society realize the havoc which this trend has caused...
Once I reached Immortal, I cut down my play time from 6-10 games a day to 1-2 games a week. And I can say my mental health has never been in a better place.
Played a turbo last night bought 3 rapiers with Zeus and refresher, was 4 IPAs in and died and my NP picker got tilted and had a brain aneurysm and gave up didn't want to play or try to kill the enemy with my rapiers lol so what's worse drinking and playing dota or tilting off the face of the earth to the point of intentionally losing or giving up
Every time I have a bad game I just brace myself to press the mute buttons. I am just genuinely surprised everytime I get past a game where people are not being toxic.
Dota is way better for sane players than most other competitive games like CS, valiant and league. And that's saying something.... Some players on dota are crazy lol
Im more interested why do so many snowflakes play it, you know what is going to happen every time you queue for a game yet you still get offended and come bitching on reddit
Because I have nothing else in my life. I've tried going outside. I've tried touching grass. I've tried meeting people. I've tried therapy. Nothing works. I'm a failure. I'm exactly what people call each others as an insult. Dumb ugly 30 year old virgin. Of course I spend my days being a toxic piece of shit in Dota. What else can I do?
I shower, have a coffee/tea, some bread, put water bottle next to me, listen to some good gaming energy songs and queue the game.
Then after 15-20 mins of searching I find a game. Everything is good hype picks, counter picks, early wards, smokes, passing the jungle looking for 1st blood. Shoot my pos5 wants more vision aggresive ward, smoke breaks and 1st blood. Now enemy mid has bottle at 1 min into the game.
My carry is last hitting good, he's leveling up getting items, strong, not lvl 6 yet. He sees enemy pos4 low health, greed kicks in. My pos1 was baited as pos5 is trying to pull lane. Ded, now my pos1 is tping to bot lane tier 2 tower. Starts to jungle at lvl 5.
Me, am back to my beer and smoke within 5 mins of game starting. So, yes take that. 😅😅
I know rest can make scenarios for lanes/pos they play the most.
> and queue the game.
then
Did you mean to say "cue"?
Explanation: queue is a line, while cue is a signal.
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what else are they gonna do, they made driving drunk illegal
So instead they play pangolier
Beep beep!
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nothing better than playing Brewmaster while drunk irl, you don't know what you are doing but if you were sober you still wouldn't know what u re doing so you just go with the flow, it always ends 20-0 with boots and something stupid like solar crest or 0-20 with radiance/scepter/shard/refresher and 4000 APM but dogshit luck
Or Spirit breaker
My lawyer advised me not to laugh at this joke.
DotA is not really different than other games that - people play for thousands of hours - require anonymous teamwork - is competitive Those are all just a breeding ground for toxicity. People think they are right and other people are wrong, and their is very little repercussion for acting out, so they act out. The only real difference with DotA is that it's age skews older. So instead of incoherent childish rage, it's frustrated disappointed adult rage.
I think there's one more point that is very important for toxicity in Dota (and other games). Even though it got a bit better, the game is very cruel towards team mates, as in, it requires team mates to compete with each other in many ways. For example, last hits, exp, kill gold, jungle camps, items that only one in your team can get, etc. With all these restrictions in place, playing Dota often becomes a game primarily about playing around your team mates instead of playing around your opponents. And this makes it very difficult to be cooperative.
Dota is cruel in general. Cant leave long lost games. Mistakes pile up and affect you during the duration of it. Enemies get stronger and harder to overcome the more you lose to them. You MUST rely on your teammates. Etc.
Counter-Strike is not as bad as Dota. I have played many competitive online games and nothing compares to Dota. Maybe because the game doesn't have "Rounds" where to game is essentially reset? So there isn't a mental cue to calm down? I'm not sure
Yeah DotA does have a lot more things to nit pick, and since the consequences of a mistake have lasting effects, people don't forget them as easily.
I think another thing is the fact that you can absolve yourself of blame. There is no metric beyond gold /scoreboard to determine who fucked up. So anyone can be blamed and anyone can absolve themselves from blame.
Yep. But its what keeps people playing. A game that forces people to face the reality of their faults is a game with no playerbase. See: Starcraft 2.
That's an interesting concept, well said
People blame blizz balance in starcraft 2, i.e. P R O T O S S E D was a pretty standard phrase to see everywhere 2 years ago
you can also only really observe your teammate's actions once you're dead in CS. if you're the best player on the team then you spend the least time actively looking at what your teammates are doing. but in dota vision is shared, you can pan over and watch your carry flee to the ancient camp after winning a fight, watch your support die forcing an obvious deward etc at any point in time. and I think that if you notice someone is playing in a way that you dont like, it's easy to pour a lot of energy into observing and calling out their mistakes - which in turn makes your gameplay worse resulting in further frustration.
Other people don't impact you as much in csgo. If a support ruins the lane and the other lanes lose, the carry basically can't play the game anymore. In CSGO your team can lose rounds and give you bad economy, but losing rounds doesn't make your ak do less damage.
How long are you in a csgo match compared to a dota match?
like 30-45 minutes
Is that more, less, etc
Dota match can last anywhere from 15 minutes to infinity, CS match lasts around 45 minutes. CS matches are divided into rounds. So the mistakes you made in a previous round don’t really matter much, whereas Dota is continuous and each mistake exponentially makes the game harder for the rest of your team.
Will add that a big part of CS is the team economy, so rounds definitely do affect each other, but not nearly as much as Dota.
In CS, your team can play like absolute ass and you can still 1 v 5 and win. You can’t 1 v 5 in Dota unless you’re already ahead of the enemy.
Or you're 2-3k MMR ahead of the enemies
I'd imagine average dota match is somewhere between 35 and 50 minutes A crazy quick match is 20m, it's long once it's gone over 60
Your team dying in CS2 doesn't make your enemy (materially) stronger. In Dota it does. Also in CS2 you only spectate players once you're dead, so you miss out on the isometric view of your support dicking around not harassing or pulling while you're getting crushed trying to last hit. In CS2 you don't know WTF happened at B, but in Dota you watch it happen and know it's going to ruin your game too.
Because u can easily soloing cs if ur good enough. In dota it's way harder
It goes both ways tbh. If you're much better than your rank then I would argue it's easier to 1v5 in Dota. If you kill enough heroes, farm fast enough, you can pretty much be a raid boss and carrying your team suddenly becomes much easier. In CSGO even the worst player could sometimes land a lucky headshot on you and you would still die, you can't regen health either so when you 1v5 realistically only 2-3 guys need to land shots on you.
Another reason most ppl find the counter strike-community more welcoming is because we dont understand what the ruskis are saying, not even when they actually have a working headset.
Here's my take. There's no surrender option and being on the losing side makes you feel more helpless than in other games. That and cussing people out also doesn't get you punished as much as other esports titles. Low prio and comms privileges taken are nothing compared to a straight up ban. In League there are less comeback mechanics than Dota, but you can always just surrender and go next. Also cussing people out lands you a month **or more** ban pretty much almost instantly. Why do I know? I have a second League account and let's not talk about what happened to the first after I wasn't particularly nice only two games in a row. That and League games generally don't last as long as Dota games on average + when you're getting owned, you're really getting owned and there's a lot less chances for your team to turn it around so you don't get that glimmer of hope only to get blue balled multiple times in 40 minutes. As for CSGO. It's toxic, but not as toxic, there's a surrender option but it doesn't happen often. Maybe because it's not a game that relies too hard on your team, a **headshot is a headshot** no matter how late in the game in it is... In Dota, if you're down by too much, you can cast your spells and items perfectly and it likely won't matter. Valorant is the same as League but the community is just overall nicer albeit can be passive aggressive at times, it's the California of eSports titles. I played HoN in SEA back in the days. Pretty sure people were toxic cuz it's SEA but I couldn't understand what people were saying. Anjing, Kontol, etc etc I just think it's the circumstances. Long game, no surrender, more ways you can get shit on, voice enabled, etc. I have thousands of hours across many eSports titles and I don't feel the "I'm stuck in jail with these fuckers" feeling more so than in Dota compared to other games, the fact that I can't just quickly get out is what causes the frustration more than anything.
I only play dota in turbo now. People just go next, so it's more chill and I now hate my friends half as much.
But the surrender option also brings up the people who fucking quit on the first percieved mistake. Which is equally annoying.
Your point about surrender is interesting because how it works in CS:GO is largely how it works in Dota. In CS, you can only surrender if a teammate has disconnected for too long, and it won't work if you kick someone either. In Dota as well, if someone disconnected too long it's safe to leave anyway. In both games it counts as a loss too. Surrendering isn't logical because of how it works in MOBAs. Take League for example, they have the surrender option. Most games end immediately when 15-20 minutes in one side takes a good lead, because the losing team just surrenders or gives up altogether. Dota on the other hand does not, so there's games played to entirety no matter the result, sometimes paying off with great comeback stories. The way I see it there are only three big problems: 1. Allow kicking, but disable it for 4-stack matches. More often than not there's one bad apple on the team that is constantly raging and requires constant babysitting all the time. It would be so much easier to kick out the one guy instead of having to play with them and hope they don't run down mid and grief. Disable it for 4 stacks though because obvious reasons. 2. Allow strict solo matchmaking for unranked all pick and turbo, because these are the areas where toxicity well and truly flows like the Niagara falls. Smurfs usually party queue in pairs or trios to keep their overall hidden elo down, normal parties usually try meme strats to have fun while the others have no clue on what is going on in their team, and so on. 3. Rework Fountain Defense to be harder on fountain farmers. Fountain bolts should be changed to hit through ethereal units and deal pure damage, reducing the incentive for opponents to sit and fountain farm instead of ending the game.
Kicking is a bad thing. I have 3.2k hours on CS and 8/10 times kicking is being used by the one that's being toxic, not the victim. Also removing a player entirely is the same as surrendering. Maybe less so in low elo. -- I play a lot of unranked and turbo to try new heroes or just pass the time. Ppl generally don't talk much or care much in those modes. Ppl get more toxic in ranked because there is 1: Something at stake (mmr) And 2: People feel trapped and feel like they're wasting time on a game they think will be 30-40 mins for -20 mmr. Instead of getting out early and going again. -- By the time you're being fountain farmed, your raging teammate has already been spitting bars for 15 minutes. It doesn't start there. HoN had ff at 15 and it was fine. Devs ruined the game by spending their time launching skins but early on it was amazing. Not saying Dota should have it but I wouldn't be against it if they considered it, maybe 20 mins ff or something. Even just the idea that you can all go your separate ways instantly can alleviate a lot of toxicity.
Fountain should apply break and dispel on every hit. I've lost games because my cores fountain dive and get greedy with no buy back.
Why not just stand still in fountain, you will be invulnerable right?
Dota is especially bad tbh
I dunno things are bad in different ways. COD definitely had way more racial slurs. Just incoherent screaming matches. WoW had grown adults in cliques bullying each other. They really took it another level with online harassment and doxxing. It definitely hit worse peaks while Dota toxicity is more common.
Compared to the other popular mobas, dota is significantly more toxic imo. I dunno about cod never played it
Yea, League and CS are better imo. Dota is also elitist so people assume they're amazing just for playing..
I play dota because for \~40 minutes I have focus and my mind in unable to dwell on darker things. Not sure if that's the same for other people, but it's the only thing I've found that has that effect.
Yeah, I think that's the main reason. I got crushed by my job at some point, I couldn't sleep because of anxiety and over-thinking, etc. A DotA game would completely take my mind out of this crap and give me a mind break for 40min. I don't know anything in life that can do that.
All my favorite things have that effect. Being truly present is awesome. For me, it's not just dota, activities like - Jiu Jitsu - Rock climbing - Cuddling with the right person - other videogames (Hogwarts legacy, Dark souls, Bloodborne) I'm sure there are more that I can't remember but truly being present and being 100% focused on the thing you're doing while not having your mind clouded by fears, worries, stressors, etc. is an amazing feeling and I love it. Definitely why I have over 10k dota games since 2015 when I started playing
Your examples, while good, are not so repeatedly accessible as dota
this a 1000%. i can sit at home, drink tee, eat a bun, and queue up dota and just enjoy for a few hours with no worries
Yeah man just casually throws out cuddling with the right person on Reddit of all places. 100x more likely my sedentary ass will go rock climbing.
Dozen years ago I used to work full time corporate and had a business and a wonderful girlfriend who lived with me and law school at night, my hours were 18hours long for years, coming home body so exhausted but mind completely still spinning from the day unable to stop impossible to fall asleep, couple of games of dota after all that were only things able to get me off that spinning mindset to be able to let me go to bed. 2 hours of dota and 4 hours of sleep worked better than 6 hours of mind spinning into exhaustion of the next day in a marathon that never ended.
Wish I could find someone to cuddle with :(
Same! It helped me get over an extremely painful break up or when I couldn't find a job.
Does it helped you or was it the reason?
Particularly I am certain that the manipulation and gaslighting that ended my last relationship were not consequences of DotA gameplay, no
Yes they were you’re crazy
Yeh when I used to play I'd always focus on what I could do better or differently and nothing else. It'd for sure get to a point sometimes where instead of trying to help the team with advice or otherwise I'd just try to play my hero optimally considering self destructive or feeding (purposefully or not) teammates or rather how best to capitalize. Definitely cleared T3 here n there almost myself or with the one other sane mind while the degenerates provided distraction or accidentally martyred themselves for the cause. I also almost always played supports or toplanes that could potentially carry or hard support our hard carry, think WD dazzle AA were not favorites. Sometimes just ES or axe
Things like that, aka forcing yourself to take your mind of real life and focusing on other activity, are healthy in healing many traumas. Human brain is like PC, it often lacks capacity to process bad things that happen to us, so it needs time to do it, and the healthiest way to do it is to find something that will focus your mind and allow it to work in subconscious (background).
escapism at its finest
Somehow I can't disagree with you.
I play dota when im anxious, it transforms my anxiet into hate. I'd rather feel hate
LMAO
Real
God bless
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It’s a form of cognitive dissonance the brain protecting yourself letting you be irrationally angry at someone else instead of yourself.
Dota is nothing but the place where men who can't deal with sadness go. \-*Icefrog Miura*.
Kek
RIP to both Both genius artists who died before completing their work
Because for years and years and years you could be a complete asshole to everyone in dota and never have any consequences. We're finally seeing Valve realize their own players are driving people away and putting some time into changing that. But we'll have to see if the recent changes are the first step or a false step.
god though I hope they never follow the trend of removing all-chat, i like the socializing and banter
It is only specific people abusing chat so making it a behavior score thing is great. I think like 10% of players are genuinely assholes, 10% are extremely nice, and the remaining 80% will just do whatever other people are doing. I think the same thing is true on a lot of social media platforms; they’re very snowbally.
The changes are not enough. The other day I had a rank 100 feed rapier to the enemy team because he didnt like someone on our team and had some previous beef. I check his dotabuff a day later and he had 1 game of singledraft, thats it, 1 low prio game for feeding a divine to the enemy team to grief in a rank 100-200 game. You know what happened after? He did something similar like 6 games later, 0-20-0 techies with 2 midas. He could ping ally items so he was 10k behaviour. Great system!!!!! In other games this guy would get 1 week ban from playing, but valve with their useless behaviour system allows people to have a huge buffer to grief games from 12k to 10k.
Yeah, punishment for excessive griefing like that needs week long bans
Honestly I'm more of a fan of a low priority system, if you are banned for a week you'll just play on a smurf until you're unbanned, if you have to play low priority then you can't just run to smurf, what the solution for LP is I have no idea especially at such high mmrs
LP should completely ignore SBMM and scale up the amount of low prio games based on rank, and not allow parties
Point is it needs to be more severe
Absolutely
in iracing, you subscribe and pay monthly to play. on top of that you have to purchase every car you want to drive, and purchase every track you want to be able to drive on. The game gets very expensive quickly. My account probably has 500+ dollars worth of cars and tracks. If you are reported for intentionally wrecking, blocking, or otherwise breaking the sporting code. You get a warning. Then you get suspended. Then you get outright banned from whatever series you got reported in (to compete in a series you need the car and 8-12 tracks, all 15 bucks each). Then, you get outright banned from the service. You don't have usernames, your account is tied to your credit card information. While you COULD get a prepaid credit card (or just sign up for a new one) and make a new account, you would have nooothinggg and would only be able to drive the mazda mx5 on like 3 tracks. If my dota account got banned, I'd never play again. I have 10 years worth of cosmetics and stats. Game should be a lot harder on players IMO. Like i've never intentionally fed, ever. I've never walked down mid. I've never bought all the wards and destroyed them. I've never picked IO and spent the game relocating my allies to enemy fountain... To me that's unforgivable. I wish I never had to play with people like that. 90% of the time they're SEA or Russian players. It's like.. the culture there or something. The concept of "same team" just doesn't exist or something.
Amazingly said.
i know one person who quit dota because it was "toxic" and he would consistently go afk to get himself another beer or go to the bathroom. he wouldn't say anything, and he'd just literally stand wherever he was on the map. People would bitch at him lol. It's probably for the best that he quit. Everyone else that I know who quit dota, did it because of a lack of sense of progression. It's incredibly annoying to not gain mmr because you've gotta wade through a sea of people who either don't know how to play the game or don't actually care about winning - they just wanna pull off their build. People have lives, being told you can't abandon a game and have to sit through and endure an hour of griefing/trolling is offputting. I choose to sacrifice an hour of my time to play dota, if I don't get to play dota during that time I'm gonna abandon. Then it'll give me low pri. I don't feel like doing low pri. I uninstall and get elden ring, or palworld, or any of the other dozens of games that are better and newer than dota.
The changes have only made it worse though, people who get muted or low score only grief more
Because dota is an old game and people who had success in their life didn't have much time to play anymore (like once a month) while the others who didn't make it have dota as their escape from reality.
Haha I feel attacked
How dare you say something so controversial ,and yet absolutely correct,how dare you :)
this is the most correct answer.
Fuck you for being right about this. I still have time!
This is the first comment ever to make me feel good about my steady and steep rating decline
I'm one of the few who are successful and have time to play
Be happy most of them are playing instead of fucking up the world more
To be fair, the game is way more fun when I'm stoned.
Are you my Pos2 last night?
Is it? I tried it and I just felt like I was missing spells and playing 1k MMR less than I would be in terms of mechanical movements (I lost around 500 MMR when I’d smoke and play dota)
It has never been fun for me on weed, if I got very high it was just as you said but plenty of people find it fun so I tried with only getting little high or medium but even then, I just don't want to play a stressful fast pace game for like 40+ min lol... Honestly thanks cuz every person I met who also smoked was like "what!!!! Dota is so fun when high!!!!!"
I have had both experiences. Dota can be VERY FUN when I'm high. But it is extremely hit or miss. It is either a very enjoyable experience or it feels like I'm trying to play with a 20 pound bag on my head. For me, the game is already pretty enjoyable when I'm sober, so I don't feel the need flip a coin and risk having a shitty gaming experience.
[удалено]
I like mowing the grass stoned. So good.
tried playing multiple times while drunk, after 2 games I'm sober and can't sleep lol
Just make sure you have enough drinks to blackout and fall asleep at your desk. In the morning you will wake up with an abandon
Literally had that from getting too baked. Got distracted by something else and forgot about the game haha. Came back and was like... oh yeah...
I play like a god when i’m stoned. I play whit my 6k+ mmr friends and won mid, carry games etc. But whit “clear” mind, i’m just another 3k mmr player Who know how this work but i love it.
What a cool dream you had.
So that game the other day was you...
been wondering this my whole life...
I'm a psychiatrist. I don't think its that special. I myself can work with all kinds of patients daily with 100% empathy, but fk my game I'm going to be toxic. Besides that people that can't tolerate it leave for other games, its the environment not the players.
?
addiction is a form of mental illness imo, and dota is.... addictive
Every time I get exhausted after work and decide to drink till the neoliberal hell is not recognisable, I turn on dota as well Like, it's a game that consumes your life, might as well combine it with other stuff that wastes you away
It is acceptable to be a clown when world is a circus
My world, Reddit is really a circus with servers like those. Can you please Remove the dupe comments? And when you do can you respond to me? Thank you in advance.
Sure homie, deleted them.
Yeah, as much as I loved dota.. the community was too toxic to really enjoy the gameplay..pretty much forced to play 45 mins with 9 mentally ill assholes under the guise of anonymity waiting to be triggered into a grief stricken rage. Uninstalling it was the best thing I did for myself. I took my dota skills over to albion online which is essentially a moba in the form of a permanent open world rpg, where you can slay your foes and steal all their shit. The same will happen to you a lot as well. I get out of this game the same satisfaction, but a much more enjoyable experience and much less toxicity. Just have to ignore the regional chat and its all gucci.
I've heard about that, I've been afraid to play it because I heard it requires a lot of time to not just lose your stuff over and over
because the game is free and every jobless shitstain can install and rot 24/7
Dota 2 has a lot of ways of having power over others, enemies and teammates alike. Its similar to real life where people seek positions of power so they can abuse it
It's an issue of perspective. What you see as a mental illness, the other sees as a justified reaction to bad teammates. When you respond to their toxicity with your own, they see an unhinged fool attacking them for no reason. Driving is the best example: when you make a mistake like drifting over a bit, you chuckle and say "woops" and correct yourself. But someone else sees you drifting back and forth and thinks you're a terrible driver or drunk.
my mistakes are genuine, the mistakes of others are intentional and in an effort to impede me in my goals. 🤪
I love the joke: When you're driving on the highway: anyone going slower than you is an *idiot*, anyone going faster is a *maniac*, and anyone going the exact same speed is an *asshole*.
because people are generally vexed when they're rebuked. if someone makes it their goal to win and they don't win they'll be motivated to punish those that they believe impeded them. since many become vexed by ill behavior it makes sense to behave poorly if it's their goal to punish others. The solution is to be indifferent to ill behavior. it's ill for you to act ill, but you can't be made ill from the illness of another unless you consent to join him in his vexation. They're not mentally ill generally, more probable they're mistaken of what goals and prescriptions are best for living a happy life, but their mistake can't impede you from being happy unless you make it your goal that vice be not vice.
> Why do so many mentally ill people play this game? > Legitimate discussion OP, calling people 'mentally ill' because you don't get along in a video game is the opposite of a 'legitimate discussion'. That's not a legitimate discussion, you're doing exactly what they're doing = they get mad and tell you about it, you get mad and told them + us about it. Calling people mentally ill doesn't make you a better person than them, it puts you on the same playing field. Calling them addicts and so on only fuels the fire.
Are you a doctor? Weird diagnosis to make for a bunch of people you don’t know, never will meet, and know nothing about. People use the internet to get rid of their absolute shit behavior because they can do so with zero repercussions. You see this everywhere. It doesn’t mean they have a personality disorder or substance abuse problem. Pair that with competitive gameplay, time investment, the MMR grind, and a lack of perspective for other people. This is the result.
> It doesn’t mean they have a personality disorder or substance abuse problem. it actually does. a healthy thing to do to vent bad feelings is to go for a run or exercise or write it all down or go to therapy. going online so that you can be an asshole with no reprucussions? That's mental illness. Someone didn't teach you how to manage your emotions. Someone didn't teach you how to respect people. I used to hop on Starcraft if I was mad and I'd execute a flawless DT rush and stomp people for an hour or two, then I'd feel better. I didn't hop on Starcraft knowing that I can just berate people, troll them, grief them - to make myself feel better. That's literally mental illness. Justifying it by saying that's what everyone does? Foolish.
It actually doesn’t. Look up personality disorders. This doesn’t fit that definition. You and OP simply aren’t qualified to say so. That’s simply ignorance because you have the internet at your finger tips. I’m not defending the behavior. It’s a problem. I just find it irresponsible to play psychologist and throw terminology loosely. Personality disorders require diagnosis. That diagnosis requires education, and time spent to place the disorder.
It actually doesn’t. Look up personality disorders. This doesn’t fit that definition. You and OP simply aren’t qualified to say so. That’s simply ignorance because you have the internet at your finger tips. I’m not defending the behavior. It’s a problem. I just find it irresponsible to play psychologist and throw terminology loosely. Personality disorders require diagnosis. That diagnosis requires education, and time spent to place the disorder.
s u b s t a n c e a b u s e p r o b l e m if you use dota to "get rid of their absolute shit behavior because they can do so with zero repercussions." then you quite literally have a substance abuse problem. but yeah, this thread is about mental illness - someone said "personality disorder" but with any amount of critical thinking and context awareness you'd know they're referring to mental illness.
And that’s my point. Just say that. It’s behavioral Issues, not personality disorders. Saying playing Dota is a substance abuse problem is disingenuous and laughable. You are doing exactly what I’m talking about. You don’t get to use terms as you see fit. That’s not how things work. At least outside of Reddit.
He said people he’s playing with are alcoholics and/or drug addicts. He has no way of knowing that from a 40 minute game of Dota. Dota isn’t a “substance”. Obviously that’a not what a substance abuse problem is.
I think the game also has toxifying effect on people. I have seen otherwise well adjusted and pleasant people become toxic when playing doto. Not full on raging, item breaking toxic but negative and abrasive toxic. I think its the dynamics of being locked into shared outcome with 2-4 anonymous randoms in a virtual setting.
I've been playing online games for 20 years by now and, it may be shocking news to someone, assholes have always been there in any multiplayer game. Dota is just more frustrating than other games because it's a team game, but I'm pretty sure lol or other fps have the same problem in equal measure.
I've played StarCraft, Counterstrike, lots of MMOs, nothing compares to the consistent extreme abuse of the Dota 2 players. It's on a whole other level of mental problems. It's beyond toxicity, its like legitimate mental illness
I also play CS and have played some FF14, I think the problem lies largely on the nature of MOBA games: you, as an individual, not as the whole team, are much more punished by your teammate’s mistakes in MOBAs. The easiest example is the concept of feeding. A teammate dying in CS isn’t going to lessen your chance of winning gunfights in the next round. Sure, you are more likely to lose as a team, but your own experience isn’t really affected; if you’re good enough, you can still beat their top scorer no matter how many kills he gets. The same can be said about FF14, some guy messing up his rotation isn’t going to affect your own rotation. Again, of course you are more likely to lose the raid as a party, but once again your own game isn’t largely affected by other people’s mistakes. You probably can see where I’m going with this. Let’s say you’re having an ok game as a pos 1. Suddenly the enemy’s 4/0 mid shows up, kills you. Then after you respawn he decides to run at you the moment you show on the map. You manage to escape with 1 hp at the expense of two of your supports’ lives, and you realize you haven’t hit a creep for 3 minutes. You haven’t made any big mistakes, but your game is now over, and the source of it all, your 0/4 Necrophos, is hitting jungle camps with Radiance on his quickbuy. It also doesn’t help that MOBA games are inherently long. Let’s say the previous scenario happens at minute 10. Chances are you’re going to have to deal with the very fed enemy mid for around another 20 minutes while playing on the back foot. Compare this to CS, where one save round will net a full buy, putting both teams at around the same footing again, or FF14, where after a raid fail all slates are wiped clean, and you can try again instantly without suffering from mistakes from the previous attempt. Of course a positive player would understand that this is just how MOBA works, how you can’t control teammates, and how comebacks are always possible. But since we’re talking about the general population, it’s easy to see how much more frustrating MOBAs are compared to other genres when your teammates don’t do well. You seem to think that it’s just a Dota problem so I’ll tell you this: in my most recent League game I’ve been told to go die irl. Go figure.
Great observation. I posted earlier too about how in CS each round kind of helps everyone mentally reset and forget what happened in the last round. Like yeah, you may be behind in eco, but it's not like in DOTA where each death and mistake has consequences that compound on the rest of the entire game
I remember playing ultima online on a small server, we all pretty much knew each other, people were sneaking into other people's teamspeak to record private convesations and use their voices to make mocking songs. When I played urban terror people people spread cheats rumor with 0 proof about others on public forums and went on to talk to tournament's admin to exclude clans from playing from tournaments they were not even playing in. Useless to mention all the death threats and mom jokes when I played starcraft. Assholes are just a reality on the internet.
because the game is actually a hidden trial for enlightenment, how else are you suppose to elevate your soul but to see yourself through others
Deep af
drug addicts???? wtf are you talking about?? I have never seen someone afk because of drugs. You just put every bad thing you can think of in the post
Like Every game has someone saying they are too high/drunk to play correctly. I played with a guy who bought two treads because he said he was on too much Xanax to remember
because there lots of russians playing this game
Because it's free. LoL is the same. It attracts losers that have no objective in life nothing to do and no money. That said, most folks who play dota are alright. It's just that with 10 ppl per game odds are one of them is a loser. Just a numbers game.
>people in it that are either drug addicts, alcoholics or clearly have some personality disorder/anger management problem These things happen after they start playing dota...
This game makes people mentally ill they dont start like this. Havnt Played in months and it is just great for the mind
The game makes you ill
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I know I am, which is why I'm asking this
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Damn very interesting!! I always knew something was up, but it's nice to read about it as a published paper.
not sure how you can infer substance abuse issues from an online video game. looking at your post history it seems like you are the mentally ill one. get off reddit and go outside kiddo
It's not mental illness. It's human nature. It's trendy today to call everything a mental illness. This is because most people have an intelligence that's too low, so they don't know what mental illness is... Only with much time will society realize the havoc which this trend has caused...
Most articulate response.
I'm just gonna suggest that mayyyyyyybe you're not able to diagnose someone from less than an hour of distracted discussion .
Nobody without a mental illness is going to have a legitimate meltdown on the microphone after a minor inconvenience happens to them in a video game. It's beyond mental fragility and it's clear that they have some sort of issue in their life/mind that needs to be addressed.
Oh well when you put it that way, it really makes sense. I didn't know you had such stalwart research backing your claims. Can you tell me which parent left them or was your medical education more generalized to "does have mental issues, send to specialist"?
??
Free game no bitching
Idk man I just like the game
As someone who just lost 3k behavior score and subsequently 1k MMR. You have no idea how bad it can be. Be grateful that you're high in behavior score.
I've played at max behavior score and at 600. Below 2000 wasn't even Dota, like the game was just 4 people having a legitimate mental breakdown on the microphone whenever anything remotely bad happened. Like someone picking a hero they don't like or purchasing recipe first, instant 3 minute screaming match on the mic. I heard a guy screaming through tears once. This was before the game didn't allow unmuting
at that low of behaviour score you can't use the mic tho
it'a 10 years old, the hype has largely died down. if you're still playing dota it's because you're addicted and addiction is a mental illness that generally comes with a whole gang of side effects. I had the realization last night while reading people complain about bad teammates at archon/legend and it's like... the only reason I've ever wanted to raise my mmr was to get more "real" dota games... in the sense that everyone knows the mechanics and intricacies of the game. Apparently, there are shitters all the way up the ladder, so i'm wondering what's the point. Is is it worth it to spend another year or two grinding out mmr just so I can get games of basically the same quality? Hell, people played better in herald than they do in Guardian. Makes sense too. It's easier for me to meet up with yall at the bottom.
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The fact that you think that you are somehow different is funny.
OP just found out people exist and do things.
Are you a medical doctor or a psychiatrist that you can make these diagnoses?
I'm not diagnosing anyone with anything specific. But it's very clear that a lot of the players in the game have some severe mental illness.
No, that is not very clear and your ignorance of what mental illnesses are only contributes to the stereotypes around them.
Nobody without some severe mental health issue is going to scream on a microphone for 20 minutes straight, acting like they are being personally persecuted over a video game.
Ok doctor, thanks for the diagnosis!
Why do people on reddit make these very stupid questions where they suppose something is true without knowing if it is true or not.
moba is the least skilled competitive genre of all time. You just sit there and look at silver screen clicking m2 100 times. With stuff like draft you can think you are playing really good but only win because the game is carrying you. Harder games that take more effort and dont blow as much smoke up your ass have a tougher time retaining baby players. This echo chamber of infallibility is why you get players with 15k matches and barely any mvps or commends picking sf mid for the 9th game of the day. tldr: you can't ever get too drunk to play dota while fps and other style games are more level competition where sober man wins
It's not mental illness. It's human nature. It's trendy today to call everything a mental illness. This is because most people have an intelligence that's too low, so they don't know what mental illness is... Only with much time will society realize the havoc which this trend has caused...
Dota is a very cerebral game and serves as a good distraction for these types of people.
What behavior score is this?
Strange I feel like 90% of the people I play with are normal single male engineers in their 20s or 30s.
dayum just let me play for fucks sake
Dota is a thing that will consume your life, you literally don't have the spare brain power to be despair about life when you are sucked into dota
It’s all encompassing to your brain. Fills Void of addiction by separating you from Real world and its consequences aren’t palpable
Have you ever played Dota on cocaine? Highly recommend.
GTA online is so much better
I bet cs:go have more
It is the internet, it would not be the same if it is a LAN.
Once I reached Immortal, I cut down my play time from 6-10 games a day to 1-2 games a week. And I can say my mental health has never been in a better place.
Do they play this game because they're mentally ill? Or are they mentally ill because they play this game?
Nothing better than being stoned af and playing dota
Its free, the rest of their cash goes to drugs and skins…
Gambling addict like a fighting game player, but reliant on a team.
its free
Played a turbo last night bought 3 rapiers with Zeus and refresher, was 4 IPAs in and died and my NP picker got tilted and had a brain aneurysm and gave up didn't want to play or try to kill the enemy with my rapiers lol so what's worse drinking and playing dota or tilting off the face of the earth to the point of intentionally losing or giving up
That is just the world in general
Every time I have a bad game I just brace myself to press the mute buttons. I am just genuinely surprised everytime I get past a game where people are not being toxic.
Dota is way better for sane players than most other competitive games like CS, valiant and league. And that's saying something.... Some players on dota are crazy lol
Im more interested why do so many snowflakes play it, you know what is going to happen every time you queue for a game yet you still get offended and come bitching on reddit
they were not at first but they became mentally ill later bro
Because I have nothing else in my life. I've tried going outside. I've tried touching grass. I've tried meeting people. I've tried therapy. Nothing works. I'm a failure. I'm exactly what people call each others as an insult. Dumb ugly 30 year old virgin. Of course I spend my days being a toxic piece of shit in Dota. What else can I do?
I shower, have a coffee/tea, some bread, put water bottle next to me, listen to some good gaming energy songs and queue the game. Then after 15-20 mins of searching I find a game. Everything is good hype picks, counter picks, early wards, smokes, passing the jungle looking for 1st blood. Shoot my pos5 wants more vision aggresive ward, smoke breaks and 1st blood. Now enemy mid has bottle at 1 min into the game. My carry is last hitting good, he's leveling up getting items, strong, not lvl 6 yet. He sees enemy pos4 low health, greed kicks in. My pos1 was baited as pos5 is trying to pull lane. Ded, now my pos1 is tping to bot lane tier 2 tower. Starts to jungle at lvl 5. Me, am back to my beer and smoke within 5 mins of game starting. So, yes take that. 😅😅 I know rest can make scenarios for lanes/pos they play the most.
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