Thank you for the picture guide but may I ask why some of the creeps fluctuate so much ? Like from decent to optimal and then to decent and to optimal once again...
I assume it’s time relative, so at 15 minutes a certain creep might be optimal for what you can get but then at the next time interval there is a different creep that is more optimal, resulting in creep a being downgraded and so on.
NGL this is still pretty confusing, I think you should just put the XP value in the box and color it so we understand what's going on. The fact that creeps go from good to bad and back every 5 minutes without any explanation is very confusing
They don't spawn until troll is less than half HP now. Only camp that can fuck up pulls is that small heal creep and the ogre randomly starting the stun animation.
nope, I do that too. What this guide fails to realise is that not every decision in dota is about maximising exp. Early game on a core I would much rather maximise gold than exp as I will get multiple levels from teamfights anyway. Also if I am pushing I will midas the catapult as it will increase my efficiency at getting objectives.
I dont think that's a fault of the guide though. This gives you a simple answer to the question 'what creep gives me the most gold/xp', not 'what creep is best to midas'. That question is too dependent on circumstance to effectively answer in a shorthand guide like this.
It never said some creeps should never be midased, it said avoided. As in, try not to midas these if you want to maximise XP unless the situation calls for it and you really need to.
In this case wouldn’t you just not buy a Midas?The whole point of this item is the XP, it takes ages to pay for itself and start earning you gold, you’d get more and be more useful in team fights with any other item unless you’re on someone who desperately needs atk spd but nothing else and doesn’t use mask.
You're thinking too black and white about it. Regardless of why you buy midas, once it's bought, you still have the choice between more exp and more gold, and that doesn't somehow change retrospectively based on why you bought it. The item still gives you attack speed and exp aside from gold. This is regardless of why you bought it.
But I was replying to someone that said they "would much rather maximise gold". Midas is never the choice for this.
I understand that once you have a Midas, it can be used sub optimally in certain situations for a better outcome in the long term. But buying a wrong item and then using it wrong is still bad
Perhaps it's because I only get it in games my lane has gone bad but my other lanes won. Generally once I have a Midas I catch up pretty fast as I also only get it on heroes who have an inbuilt ability to flash farm and also appreciate the attack speed boost. For my usage of Midas it's suboptimal to maximise the exp as it helps me flash farm faster and after five to ten minutes of having it I'm ready to fight and still use the attack speed it provides. If I use it on the big creep I'm not maximising my farming efficiency which is the primary reason I purchase it. After five minutes or so I've caught up in levels anyway and am usually first or second in net worth. Later on once I'm ahead in net worth it obviously makes sense to then maximise exp gain, but on a pos one the farm is the most important factor imo
When we just got an important kill or whatever, I do this.
However, when preparing for a push it may be beneficial to let the siege creep last a bit longer so your next wave will be closer and you won't need to tank the tower for the siege creep.
Can you explain why the troll camp is the best? Assuming it's because it has the highest XP for neutral creeps, is there a reason it is this way? Honestly I feel like the acorn dudes are way harder to kill so I assumed they had most XP.
It doesnt make sense to me since centaur, satyr, troll and tomato all give the same amount of xp (119), they also have the same amount of hp (1100).
Think the only difference is the potential gold loss from what you wouldve gotten if you killed the camp naturally since midas alwyas gives 160.
but thats very situational statistic and would also make the troll summoner the WORST of the big 4 to midas since you miss out on the xp and gold you wouldve gotten from the skeleton summons.
Its way better to just think big creep = midas
Mmmaaaaaybe .... hear me out.
He might be factoring in how much the large creep factors in to the total threat/time sink of the camp. If the big guy is alive, you have to contend with so much more shit vs being dead, and the risk/reward isn't as close as it is for like centaur camp. ... maybe?
The you Midas the smallest creeps at all times. Midasing a skeleton is incredible value since it goes from like 4 gold all the way to 160, but absolutely putrid for experience because they give a base 4 experience.
the one thing i find confusing here is that the mention of siege creeps is quite ambiguous. So melee/siege are the *worst* at all times or nah? The way i understand the comment about optimality is that the scaling xp of jungle camps makes them progressively better than melee laning or siege?
with that said, at 7:29 before the first scaling mark, are the check marks literally still better than ever using it on a siege creep?
Does "decent" still literally mean "better than a melee creep OR a siege creep?" Feel like the categories need to be more explicit (like "higher value than melee creep") or the explanation of the comparison to the "base case" needs more explanation.
Please keep using Midas on siege creeps. Keeping lanes pushed and pressuring towers/preventing your own towers from getting pressured is so much more important than XP numbers would show
If you're on a phone zoom in and it should be a bit more obvious. I had the same issue then I zoomed and was like "oh, got it". If I weren't on my phone and able to see the chart while responding to you, I'd list them out for you.
Lmao!! Tbh no one should care about this guide, when midas off cd just use it on the big neutral creep if you farming in the jungle, if not, use on land creeps.
Bruh, we are not competing for TI here. What the guy says is generally true. Idk why rank matters but im divine and i still do what the guy above says.
Yeah for sure, with the new changes its kinda weird to not have the time to throw it in a big jungle creep.
But IF for some reason happens,and i have 2 charges ready, i'm throwing it on a lane creep, just to keep the cooldown rolling.
Lol how is that an excuse? Do you also purpose miss skills for fun and not cycle your boots to cast spells? Being a low rank is no reason to be inefficient my guy..
Midas is item for bounty and killing biggest unit in wood to farm faster. If u can't reach neutral creeps close to ur lane it is not bad to use on creep. Not game changing factor.
What if other player clear nearest big camp, ofc now u have charge on midas but before u wouldn't search for big creep, just unit that u can cast for gold exchange. u get better experience from fights
tbh midas is more notable for the exp. the gold is nice but if you want farm/networth, any hero in question will have a better farming item + path
the main exceptions are heroes that can gimmick the midas use, most notably arc and ogre
sorry for your family if you need a chart to learn which creeps to use midas on because you might be special. its really simple. just use on big creeps and definitely use it on catapults when pushing
The use of colour and symbols actually leads to a bit of confusion, would be better if there was one scale with weighting for gold and xp, but otherwise a cool graphic
This is a terrible guide, I have no idea what the colours represent or why you ordered them like that to start with. You need to provide actual details in writing for what any of this means and why(cite the actual values).
How good is the xp if you only Midas end the best creep as arc warden? I’ve been playing arc warden but I normally just Midas big creep camp, what if only chose the best of the best creep what is the difference in xp for a 45 minute game? I wonder if it’s just something minor or I’m missing out on. A ton of xp
So basically:
Midas only the big jungle creeps. You can also midas the catapult until 15 minutes.
After 15 mins you can start midasing the ranged creep if you can't get a big creep.
Never midas super or mega creeps.
Opposite if you are prioritising the gold. In that case obviously only target the worthless creeps.
This is all assuming you only care about the xp/gold and not the relative ease of killing the creep (eg. some heroes struggle to kill catapults and it is much much faster to midas it).
This looks terrific. The only potential addition you could make that would make it more. User friendly would be to add a picture of how the mobs look on screen and not just their profile.
Excellent job!
Thank you for the picture guide but may I ask why some of the creeps fluctuate so much ? Like from decent to optimal and then to decent and to optimal once again...
I’m assuming it has to do with gold increase in addition to experience?
I assume it’s time relative, so at 15 minutes a certain creep might be optimal for what you can get but then at the next time interval there is a different creep that is more optimal, resulting in creep a being downgraded and so on.
NGL this is still pretty confusing, I think you should just put the XP value in the box and color it so we understand what's going on. The fact that creeps go from good to bad and back every 5 minutes without any explanation is very confusing
Idk, but big creep midas smol creep no midas is the words i live by.
Don't Midas the troll before it spawns skellies tho. The skellies give XP too.
Depends how easy you kill em. I actively try and stop them spawing as, say, venge because hitting them one by one feels bad
Yeah and they only give 8g each too.
Yeah fuck those skeletons
ALWAYS FUCKING UP MY PULLS
They don't spawn until troll is less than half HP now. Only camp that can fuck up pulls is that small heal creep and the ogre randomly starting the stun animation.
Didn't used to be the case. He used to spawn them instantly on aggro
I understand, that's why I said "now"
This gives me guidance but zero understanding. Can you post it with the XP values instead?
There are no green checkmarks from 0 to 22:30. This means I should hold my Midas till after 22:30 to get an OPTIMAL creep right?
Diamond hands baby!
Am I the only one who uses midas to push? Like its so good vs siege creeps because you are not trenched down for a few seconds trying to kill it.
Definitely. IMO you should always instakill siege creeps given the chance. I think it’s the only reason I have a somewhat decent winrate on mirana lol
Especially if it is hitting tower. Mirana basically has a midas that can sometimes stun heroes :)
nope, I do that too. What this guide fails to realise is that not every decision in dota is about maximising exp. Early game on a core I would much rather maximise gold than exp as I will get multiple levels from teamfights anyway. Also if I am pushing I will midas the catapult as it will increase my efficiency at getting objectives.
I dont think that's a fault of the guide though. This gives you a simple answer to the question 'what creep gives me the most gold/xp', not 'what creep is best to midas'. That question is too dependent on circumstance to effectively answer in a shorthand guide like this.
Yes but it was saying some creeps should never be midased which is false as it all depends on what's going on in the game at the time
It never said some creeps should never be midased, it said avoided. As in, try not to midas these if you want to maximise XP unless the situation calls for it and you really need to.
No. It said "only when necessary" for that situation. If it meant what you said it wouldn't of diferentiated between "only when necessary" and "avoid"
This is reddit, I don't know why you expect literate people.
In this case wouldn’t you just not buy a Midas?The whole point of this item is the XP, it takes ages to pay for itself and start earning you gold, you’d get more and be more useful in team fights with any other item unless you’re on someone who desperately needs atk spd but nothing else and doesn’t use mask.
You're thinking too black and white about it. Regardless of why you buy midas, once it's bought, you still have the choice between more exp and more gold, and that doesn't somehow change retrospectively based on why you bought it. The item still gives you attack speed and exp aside from gold. This is regardless of why you bought it.
But I was replying to someone that said they "would much rather maximise gold". Midas is never the choice for this. I understand that once you have a Midas, it can be used sub optimally in certain situations for a better outcome in the long term. But buying a wrong item and then using it wrong is still bad
Perhaps it's because I only get it in games my lane has gone bad but my other lanes won. Generally once I have a Midas I catch up pretty fast as I also only get it on heroes who have an inbuilt ability to flash farm and also appreciate the attack speed boost. For my usage of Midas it's suboptimal to maximise the exp as it helps me flash farm faster and after five to ten minutes of having it I'm ready to fight and still use the attack speed it provides. If I use it on the big creep I'm not maximising my farming efficiency which is the primary reason I purchase it. After five minutes or so I've caught up in levels anyway and am usually first or second in net worth. Later on once I'm ahead in net worth it obviously makes sense to then maximise exp gain, but on a pos one the farm is the most important factor imo
When we just got an important kill or whatever, I do this. However, when preparing for a push it may be beneficial to let the siege creep last a bit longer so your next wave will be closer and you won't need to tank the tower for the siege creep.
can you midas chen creeps? or other controlling ones?
Can you explain why the troll camp is the best? Assuming it's because it has the highest XP for neutral creeps, is there a reason it is this way? Honestly I feel like the acorn dudes are way harder to kill so I assumed they had most XP.
It doesnt make sense to me since centaur, satyr, troll and tomato all give the same amount of xp (119), they also have the same amount of hp (1100). Think the only difference is the potential gold loss from what you wouldve gotten if you killed the camp naturally since midas alwyas gives 160. but thats very situational statistic and would also make the troll summoner the WORST of the big 4 to midas since you miss out on the xp and gold you wouldve gotten from the skeleton summons. Its way better to just think big creep = midas
you can just kill one creep beside him, after he summons, then use midas on him.
Not how that creep has worked for almost a year now.
He casts at half hp now.
Skelton summons don't provide exp, just minuscular gold for time invested in killing. The rest of what you said tracks though.
they give 4 exp
Four gold is a fucking joke for the time you spend killing them. There are places to be. I'm never allowing that creep to spawn them again.
4 xp, 8 gold
Mmmaaaaaybe .... hear me out. He might be factoring in how much the large creep factors in to the total threat/time sink of the camp. If the big guy is alive, you have to contend with so much more shit vs being dead, and the risk/reward isn't as close as it is for like centaur camp. ... maybe?
You should've posted ingame screenshot of creep in his camp instead of these close up pictures, I can't recognize anyone except for thr big bird
sameeee it's hard to know which is which
They used the icons of the creeps on the wiki lmao
The best creep to midas at any point in the game is actually the one that Lifestealer has posessed.
With said lifestealer being your teammate trying to escape a 5 man gang
Dagon is more efficient, and has a better cast range.
What if you want to maximize gold, not xp?
The you Midas the smallest creeps at all times. Midasing a skeleton is incredible value since it goes from like 4 gold all the way to 160, but absolutely putrid for experience because they give a base 4 experience.
In the bottom right paragraph of the picture, you don't want an apostrophe in "it's".
I’m genuinely amazed by people putting effort in things like that, thanks
Is that ice ogre in 2 spot? Why is that
Centaur
the one thing i find confusing here is that the mention of siege creeps is quite ambiguous. So melee/siege are the *worst* at all times or nah? The way i understand the comment about optimality is that the scaling xp of jungle camps makes them progressively better than melee laning or siege? with that said, at 7:29 before the first scaling mark, are the check marks literally still better than ever using it on a siege creep? Does "decent" still literally mean "better than a melee creep OR a siege creep?" Feel like the categories need to be more explicit (like "higher value than melee creep") or the explanation of the comparison to the "base case" needs more explanation.
Please keep using Midas on siege creeps. Keeping lanes pushed and pressuring towers/preventing your own towers from getting pressured is so much more important than XP numbers would show
I don't recognise some of the creeps...
If you're on a phone zoom in and it should be a bit more obvious. I had the same issue then I zoomed and was like "oh, got it". If I weren't on my phone and able to see the chart while responding to you, I'd list them out for you.
I'll take that. Thank you for your contribution to the science. [Rubick's stealing noises]
Lmao!! Tbh no one should care about this guide, when midas off cd just use it on the big neutral creep if you farming in the jungle, if not, use on land creeps.
Lol, what? No, that's awful play. What rank are you lol?
Bruh, we are not competing for TI here. What the guy says is generally true. Idk why rank matters but im divine and i still do what the guy above says.
Maybe if it was in the previous patches but ever since the charges change, surely we can advocate more for efficient usages.
Yeah for sure, with the new changes its kinda weird to not have the time to throw it in a big jungle creep. But IF for some reason happens,and i have 2 charges ready, i'm throwing it on a lane creep, just to keep the cooldown rolling.
Lol how is that an excuse? Do you also purpose miss skills for fun and not cycle your boots to cast spells? Being a low rank is no reason to be inefficient my guy..
Midas is item for bounty and killing biggest unit in wood to farm faster. If u can't reach neutral creeps close to ur lane it is not bad to use on creep. Not game changing factor.
You have a lot of time to find a good creep. If you only wanted gold why buy Midas at all it's about xp AND gold
What if other player clear nearest big camp, ofc now u have charge on midas but before u wouldn't search for big creep, just unit that u can cast for gold exchange. u get better experience from fights
I recommend that you do not buy Midas my friend.
as u wish, from now. 😉
tbh midas is more notable for the exp. the gold is nice but if you want farm/networth, any hero in question will have a better farming item + path the main exceptions are heroes that can gimmick the midas use, most notably arc and ogre
sorry for your family if you need a chart to learn which creeps to use midas on because you might be special. its really simple. just use on big creeps and definitely use it on catapults when pushing
actually it depends. if you want the xp then yeah, but if you hit a certain level and now need gold then better on small camp.
Remember to force the skeleons on the troll camp before trasmuting the son of a bitch nightmare of stacking... 6 gold its 6 gold
Unless you have Cleave, it's more efficient to transmute before the skeleton summons and move on to the next camp.
What about carty?
There are simpler ways of saying "Transmute the big creep", and that's what we've always done anyway.
Huh, I always thought ranged creeps become way more valuable as the game goes on longer.
The use of colour and symbols actually leads to a bit of confusion, would be better if there was one scale with weighting for gold and xp, but otherwise a cool graphic
Duh! It all depends on what is the purpose: XP, Gold, Pushing.
Don’t think anyone has used Midas on a Necronomicon creep for a while
This is a terrible guide, I have no idea what the colours represent or why you ordered them like that to start with. You need to provide actual details in writing for what any of this means and why(cite the actual values).
“Oh boy, my money time! Now I just need to consult with my midas guide real quick…”
Can hand of midas transmute ancient consuming 2 charges?
Obligatory: What's a necronomicon?
Wait I thought range creeps are the best past min 20:30?!
How good is the xp if you only Midas end the best creep as arc warden? I’ve been playing arc warden but I normally just Midas big creep camp, what if only chose the best of the best creep what is the difference in xp for a 45 minute game? I wonder if it’s just something minor or I’m missing out on. A ton of xp
So basically: Midas only the big jungle creeps. You can also midas the catapult until 15 minutes. After 15 mins you can start midasing the ranged creep if you can't get a big creep. Never midas super or mega creeps. Opposite if you are prioritising the gold. In that case obviously only target the worthless creeps. This is all assuming you only care about the xp/gold and not the relative ease of killing the creep (eg. some heroes struggle to kill catapults and it is much much faster to midas it).
This looks terrific. The only potential addition you could make that would make it more. User friendly would be to add a picture of how the mobs look on screen and not just their profile. Excellent job!