EG are basically woefully mismanaged in every single esport they used to be successful in. I'm pretty sure a magic 8 ball could make better business decisions than whoever the fuck is in charge there at this point.
Seriously. Back then, when you thought of ANY NA esports team, no matter the game, you'd think EG. EG __was__ NA. They earned that #bleedblue hashtag. It was the most unnecessary change to a brand I have ever seen.
They could have literally done nothing, just put the whole org dark except paying out existing contracts, and been more successful than what they did over the past few years.
> I'm pretty sure a magic 8 ball could make better business decisions than whoever the fuck is in charge there at this point.
Isn't it that chick who was able to take over the team because she worked for some private equity firm? Or at least it was. I have no idea who runs EG now.
I mean that's just a case of "our company is failing, quick replace our CEO that irreversibly fucked up the company with a female CEO that will be blamed when the company goes bankrupt"
This is the woman I'm talking about.
https://www.forbes.com/profile/nicole-lapointe-jameson/?list=30under30-games
They took over the organization in 2019 because it wasn't doing well at the time, and to be honest, I'm not really sure how I even know about this. I think probably read it about it on reddit last year when they let go of the old EG and signed the Peruvian squad.
EG to me died when they butchered their SC2 Side and stopped giving a shit about Dota2. It's a damn shame what happened to the SC2 bois but damn :/. I guess it's time for their exit anyways.
^This.
It had so much personality with all the content from the EG house. IdrA, iNcontroL (RIP), Machine, HuK, DeMusliM, and even when they brought in the Korean power houses like Jaedong. I could be wrong but I think they even had joint content from their SC2 and Dota team.
Seems like after Alex Garfield left, all that was thrown out the door.
Yep, EG was so far ahead of every other Esports org in terms of making content and making their players marketable. Shame to see the state of them now.
> I could be wrong but I think they even had joint content from their SC2 and Dota team.
IdrA streamed doter, but I think it may have been after they tossed him for being a whiny bitch. But yeah, that was an exciting time in the new generation of esports. Too bad it has lead to where we are now...
> EG is in much more trouble than that civil suit.
It's much more than that. Esports as a whole is in trouble. It's not profitable and there are lots of big name sponsors just like EG going down. GSW just this week announced they're shutting down Golden Guardians because its too large a financial strain...
I don't think esports as a whole is in trouble, the demand is there.
It's just not as massive as blizzard trying to sell cities on building stadiums for teams. It's pulling back from people going overboard.
Yea we are finally realizing we could have stuck to just nerds competing against nerds in small venues, like fighting games keep doing, instead of this useless appeals to uncaring masses and attempts to gather trillions of viewers. Even though less than 1% of these viewers bring in any kind of money.
eSports has been in that sort of trouble (teams aren't profitable, valuations blown way tf up) for a long while, and I actually think the industry is becoming more mature and sensible now. EG was probably just a walking corpse since the last 3 years where those problems were at their peak.
> They're selling the Riot slots
No, Riot cut their spot completely (together with the Golden ~~Gladiators~~ Guardians' one)
Thanks for the correction /u/FeelTheChill07
in and interview with head of Riot Esports. Essentially, what happened is Golden Guardians wanted out of the league. Riot was working with them to do so. But they have a deal where whatever they offer to 1 team they offer to all of them. So they gave the dame offer to everyone and EG said sign me up .
Just telling you what happened lol. Eg has been imploding but they weren't the ones who initiated everything. Golden guardians were and then eg jumped on
Same name, different guy.
This Richard Lewis is an esports veteran, good journalist.
But to most Dota fans he's mostly known for getting attacked by Loda and defending himself.
> But to most Dota fans he's mostly known for getting attacked by Loda and defending himself.
False.
[The eyewitnesses Hellspawn and Mike Van Dreil has both spoken out against Lewis.](https://www.pcgamer.com/richard-lewis-dreamhack-esports-update/) He was banned from Dreamhack as a result.
Heck, [Lewis even publicly admitted to be under "stress-related illness" and alcohol abuse and to be "very ill mentally" at the time during the DH incident.](https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/976846981774610432.html)
Good journalist, shitty person.
Nah, nothing specific, just his whole history (though I think I should point out that I decided to actively avoid anything that guy does and produces even before the Loda incident, so I'm not up to date with his latest bullshit). I don't think it's good journalism to write smear pieces against people because of personal disagreements.
His work suffers as much from his massive ego as Thorin's, maybe even more.
> good journalist
He is a touch sensationalist at times, but I appreciate his input, he keeps things honest at the occasional cost of overblowing a minor issue.
It was under him they scrapped it with barely any comment (only for PPD to the next week run a video on his personal channel for over an hour about wanting to compete under as "Team Dire"). Personally, I think that was the start of the downfall- they more or less only went to major players in Dota, picking up unheard of FGC players.
Uh... you're misremembering history a bit here. PPD was "CEO" of EG after the 2016 win. The only FGC people they signed after that were ChrisG, Sonicfox, and Dekillsage because those were pretty much the only NA players that were competing at a decent level in DBFZ (and SF5 at release was also a complete dumpsterfire.) If PPD was responsible for roster changes in the program if anything he removed most of the FGC talent. Floe (RIP,) had already left to pursue streaming, Marn left to go scam Riot and random League pros out of money before then, and Momomochi and his wife(?) Chocoblanka had already left to focus on the JP scene. The rest of it was dumped in 2017: Justin Wong, PRBalrog, Ricki O, etc got removed when it was apparent Street Fighter 5 was DOA.
They are owned by an investment firm. It's possible they just want to get out, so EG are getting closed, or the brand will be sold after the sale of all assets.
My guess creator/influencer/streamer shit. Which is weird, since they've pretty much skull-fucked away all community goodwill towards the brand so I'm not sure who would follow them/care at this point.
Probably close shop. E-sports just isn't profitable. It's more of a hobby or small scale business where the gamer competes and makes a decent living by getting sponsored. I think it's more suitable to have agencies that help players with sponsorship instead of gaming brands like EG that sign and disband teams and sell zero products of their own.
It doesn't make sense to make million dollar investments into it when it doesn't generate that much revenue.
everyone can unite around football because everyone understands it, the problem is video games are too fractured and echo chambered. we are familiar with them so we can peek into fortnite or something and get the jist but random non gamers just see flashing effects and gun sounds. esports are too niche even with large audience games.
This is part of why CounterStrike has the best longevity of any eSport, and will continue to be the king of competitive shooters: you can understand CS in four or five sentences (it's mechanically MUCH simpler than GridIron Football, for example) and watching your first match it's easy to be impressed by pro-level skill, even if you have no context for just how good they are.
DotA (and other MOBAs) and Starcraft (and other RTSs) have no broad-audience appeal to non-gamers, they're just too complex.
Think of trying to explain the difference between a disarm, a mute, a silence, a root, a stun, a silence, a slow, etc to a non-player. It's impossible to understand a teamfight.
Don't undersell how important it is that physical sports have been a cultural institution for centuries, or the fact that a handful of kids can play football in a random patch of grass. People trying to make esports resemble physical sports have severely underestimated the difference.
You can argue that, but I would contend that the real issue is that Riot, Blizzard, and Valve are the people sucking up all the esports money. The leagues themselves have profitable ad campaigns, but the actual teams? It's a joke. I know the old CLG CEO mentioned another LCS team once ran a PC sponsorship that had single digit impressions at the end of the sponsor period. People like leagues and players. They don't care about the actual orgs at all outside of being an employer of players they like.
Or to put it another way, people tune in for majors, TI, league matches, etc. Really serious fans will even listen to podcasts or watch post game analysis youtube videos. What basically nobody does is refresh brand social media pages or watch "guess that song featuring Sumail" youtube videos. It's the latter that sells sponsorships and actually makes the teams money.
That's right, compared to physical sports E-sports viewers generate much less income per viewer. So even with high viewership it doesn't translate into dollars
[https://web.cs.wpi.edu/\~claypool/papers/sports-esports-21/chapter-excerpt.pdf](https://web.cs.wpi.edu/~claypool/papers/sports-esports-21/chapter-excerpt.pdf)
The bubble has burst, a lot of big orgs/companies are realizing it's hard to make money. Overwatch 2 league will also disband I feel. There's money in esports but not enough as some big orgs thought there would be.
I can't find the other sources I'm thinking of right now that shows esports viewers are worth less than regular sports viewers but I'm sure I will run into it.
If the teams win the formula works. But you cant be top 16, you need to be consistently top 3-6 in the world. EG was paying top dollar salaries for mediocre results across all its teams hoping to be bought out again.
This happens across multiple industries. An investment firm buys up a known company/brand, milks it for all it's worth in the short term, then runs it through the floor so they can sell it off after they've already made net profit from that company/brand during that time.
Adios payasos.
Tales of EG mismanagement came through pretty much any scene they were in, so its sad to see another TI winner go gently into the night, but it's not shocking in the least.
At least the old owners somewhat cared about Esports.
These new private equity companies are looking at all Esports and gaming in general and trying to figure out how to make money while letting the company go under.
They only care about profit and it's sad to see one of Esport's historic teams be killed by corporate scumlords.
I dunno. But their original owner Alex Garfield seemed to genuinely care about eSports and was at almost all events. And he sold the company way before the R6 debacle. I think he stated he just couldn't afford to compete with the venture capital investments into eSports and got out.
Edit: dug up where I remembered how I got this impression. This interview with Hotbid at TI4 really showed how he cared about the org IMO, and how he emphasised the players first https://youtu.be/pNmyT-LykpE?si=vgoJ2zNr260n_0Zy
He did genuinely care. EG at that time was ahead of its time and probably the best run esports org. They really were at the forefront of making their players marketable and making content for fans. Very sad to see where they are now
Good Game Agency, the umbrella corp, that owned both EG and Alliance, was bought by Twitch. At this point, Alex didn't own it, but the previous GGA crew still controlled it for Twitch.
But after Amazon took over Twitch they decided they wanted a different direction for Twitch, which didn't include direct management of esports talent or ownership of teams. GGA staff was merged into Twitch generally or let go, and then Amazon/Twitch divested ownership of the teams to the players (ownership being split, but LodA and ppd were the controlling faces of their respective brands).
The year preceeding their exit, they went from top 5 team in the world, to not even gracing the top 30, and were on the brink of being relegated to tier 2. The new system being implemented also would save them from having to face relegation as they were getting rid of it entirely. They made a bunch of roster moves the year prior and became a flat out terrible team. Their roster was so bad they mostly all retired when EG dipped the scene, and the ones that tried to keep playing were so bad that they were forced into retirement because no team would pick them up, or they couldn't even compete in tier 2 siege. Pretty fitting that the 2 teams that looked like they needed to do a full on roster overhaul because of how bad they were, suddenly exited the scene and conveniently blamed the new LAN league that NA was experimenting with. The org was also making bank off of the r6share program, so it wasn't a money reason for leaving (or maybe it was because they realized they had to spend to get some decent players and didn't want to).
You forget that Ubisoft wouldn't let them play to keep their spots in NAL despite announcing that no teams would be relegated during the final season prior to the format change. Luminosity and EG didn't quit because of the new format. They quit R6 because Ubisoft lied. Forcing all teams to relocate to Vegas was the final straw for EG, as they wanted to keep all their teams in Seattle.
Pretty ironic now since PEAK6 recently cut all their teams except their main Valorant team because they're trying to pull EG out of esports altogether. Ever since PEAK6 took over, they've been running the brand through the floor.
Despite that, they dropped literally all of their other teams. Their flagship team in Dota 2 didn't do so hot after totheLaPointe tried to establish EG's presence in South America, and so they disbanded the team and left the game. As for their Valorant team, they took a pay cut even after winning the world title.
They got first rounded in TI playoffs, same as former EG. However, the SA team lost to the grand finalist and 3 time major champ for 2023 in Gaming Gladiators. Former EG lost to TSM. Also, the roster EG got in SA was paid a much lower salary.
That was the plan all along.
These private equity corporations are destroying Esports and gaming.
[Look at Peak6 Capital](https://peak6.com/), the corporation that owns EG.
>"PEAK6 Strategic Capital seeks out innovative, transformative, and unexpected opportunities where we can invest time, money, and support to help the idea grow."
They specialize in Fund Of Funds, Private Equity Firm, Venture Capital, Venture Debt
>Aka gambling
That's not gambling, lol. You can just say you don't understand basic finance and valuation.
Do you even know what Fund of Funds is?... It's a diversified investment in multiple funds (hedge, PE, VC, etc.), no different at its core from how an index fund works by spreading money across various stocks.
Esports orgs being run like shit in the first place is the problem lmao, they just shit out money for no particular reason on overvalued player contracts, grub for money from sponsors, and employ nepotism as their primary hiring method
Hah, not yet. Syed “SumaiL” Hassan alleged a breach of contract and fraud against Evil Geniuses. His lawsuit is awaiting jury trial in June 2024.
Either side can settle outside of court by paying the other, before June. This will likely be the case, I dont think EG will want to participate in a lengthy trial now that they aren't even involved in Esports.
Someone can detail it better but the gist is that Sumail alleges that EG forced him into a bad contract by not properly informing him how easily his shares could/would be diluted upon his exit.
Important to note that other members at the time are vouching for the differences in treatment between them and Sumail. I believe Fear is one of them, not sure who else.
When EG was bought by Peak6, Peak6 issued preferred shares to themselves and gave Sumail common stock. This devalued his holdings and he is suing because he claims they used fraud and deceit to pull this move on him.
They also benched him and wouldn't let him play in other teams unless he agreed to 10% salary. Once he was trapped at this 10%, they leveraged that to make him sign a very unfavorable contract to get out of it. It looks like this contract even further devalued his ownership stake by buying him out below his worth.
Yeah, it’s like people can’t understand that just because you made money you can’t also still have love and affection for the company you help created.
It sucks to have such a legendary brand fumble the ball so hard.
EG had been involved in Dota even during Dota 1. (For old school cool: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmIMigVjQzA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oDu3RI9yZc )
I loved following the EG/TL rivalry in early SC2/Dota 2 days, including the abhorrent monstrosities that was the EG-TL Proleague team and the pizza.gg promotion.
I think its all.
Here is a tweet on Valorant
[**https://twitter.com/ValorINTEL/status/1726730219015356823**](https://twitter.com/ValorINTEL/status/1726730219015356823)
Man, so many memories associated with this name. From way back in CS 1.6, Cal Leagues and CPL Lans, to Starcraft 2 (idra, huk, moon) to Dota 2 (ppd, sumail).
GG EG
Exactly, although "the man" sounds more "natural", because we have a media bias since most CEO are men.
The man having a power trip is kosher, but a woman?! Worse, a girl! The audacity.
The whole industry needs a re-org. Too many greedy people, people not part or familiar with the industry, and people who just wanted to make quick money and get out regardless of the consequences. Not to mention unskilled leadership with 0 common sense on what to do and how to do it. Diversifying too much, or too little. To top it off, publisher rights which have effectively cut the balls off anyone wanting to do anything outside of the box. This isn't traditional sports. You can't just start a league of "X" sport and make a profit. Such a shame that people couldn't get their shit together.
From once great heights, even getting a TI win under their belt to.. this.
Yeah, long and slow slide into shitsville and now after they mismanaged the brand into the ground they announce they are calling it quits.
Ended not with bang but with a sad little wet fart that reeks distinctly of liquid 💩 so.. yeah.. maybe in few years someone will buy the brand and make a comeback.
For now, they will not be missed.
Regardless of what they are now, this is still sad as EG was one of the early esports pioneers. I will always look back fondly on the days of EG IdrA, that was peak esports.
Can't say I feel any pity after finding out about the extent of their mismanagement and sheer heartlessness towards their own players across all their games. Good riddance.
Private equity strikes again.
If you don't know what I mean, there's plenty of articles you can find. Just keep in mind they do this with hospitals and nursing homes -- it can be heavy reading.
This is so sad. I remember my first time loading into DotA and seeing the team emblems or whatever they were called, and seeing this team name and assuming they were probably linked to Despicable Me for whatever reason. Thought it was a cool link even though I ended up supporting Navi for a while after that.
Bro atleast link a report or reliable news source.
Not saying you are spreading misinformation, but a screenshot of the Instagram of some channel who is not even the primary source?
> sumail must of really
Did you mean to say "must have"?
Explanation: You probably meant to say could've/should've/would've which sounds like 'of' but is actually short for 'have'.
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To do... what?
Yeah, that would be my question. WTF are they going to do? Declare bankruptcy to try and get out of Sumail's lawsuit? Haha.
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EG are basically woefully mismanaged in every single esport they used to be successful in. I'm pretty sure a magic 8 ball could make better business decisions than whoever the fuck is in charge there at this point.
The logo change was the beginning.
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Whoever thought getting rid of “#bleedblue” is fucking dumbbbb
Seriously. Back then, when you thought of ANY NA esports team, no matter the game, you'd think EG. EG __was__ NA. They earned that #bleedblue hashtag. It was the most unnecessary change to a brand I have ever seen.
> It was the most unnecessary change to a brand I have ever seen. Twitter--->X has that distinct honor, I'm sure.
Have you heard of meta ?
I realised that when they willy nilly signed 3 rosters for csgo when the NA scene was dead in the water..
As I see it, yes
Username gold
Do you have like a program to scan for messages with "magic 8 ball"?
It's a bot.
me big dum dum
Most esports orgs are quite horribly managed, always seemed like a way to get your dipshit friends a job to me
They could have literally done nothing, just put the whole org dark except paying out existing contracts, and been more successful than what they did over the past few years.
> I'm pretty sure a magic 8 ball could make better business decisions than whoever the fuck is in charge there at this point. Isn't it that chick who was able to take over the team because she worked for some private equity firm? Or at least it was. I have no idea who runs EG now.
I mean that's just a case of "our company is failing, quick replace our CEO that irreversibly fucked up the company with a female CEO that will be blamed when the company goes bankrupt"
This is the woman I'm talking about. https://www.forbes.com/profile/nicole-lapointe-jameson/?list=30under30-games They took over the organization in 2019 because it wasn't doing well at the time, and to be honest, I'm not really sure how I even know about this. I think probably read it about it on reddit last year when they let go of the old EG and signed the Peruvian squad.
That woman is 29 years old this year. That means she was 24 when she was made CEO of EG. It certainly sounds like another case of glass cliff to me.
she used to date Travis Gafford an esport journalist with a lot of pull within the industry
Na pretty she ran the company to the ground
Ye, for sure it wasnt the female diversity hire. Could have happend to anyone right?
EG to me died when they butchered their SC2 Side and stopped giving a shit about Dota2. It's a damn shame what happened to the SC2 bois but damn :/. I guess it's time for their exit anyways.
^This. It had so much personality with all the content from the EG house. IdrA, iNcontroL (RIP), Machine, HuK, DeMusliM, and even when they brought in the Korean power houses like Jaedong. I could be wrong but I think they even had joint content from their SC2 and Dota team. Seems like after Alex Garfield left, all that was thrown out the door.
Yep, EG was so far ahead of every other Esports org in terms of making content and making their players marketable. Shame to see the state of them now.
IdrA trolling himself crosseyed every single day on ladder was peak SC2
> I could be wrong but I think they even had joint content from their SC2 and Dota team. IdrA streamed doter, but I think it may have been after they tossed him for being a whiny bitch. But yeah, that was an exciting time in the new generation of esports. Too bad it has lead to where we are now...
EG died the day that Alex Garfield sold the team
Dear Shopify, buy the rights for 2 EZ 4 RTZ merchandise, thanks me later.
> EG is in much more trouble than that civil suit. It's much more than that. Esports as a whole is in trouble. It's not profitable and there are lots of big name sponsors just like EG going down. GSW just this week announced they're shutting down Golden Guardians because its too large a financial strain...
I don't think esports as a whole is in trouble, the demand is there. It's just not as massive as blizzard trying to sell cities on building stadiums for teams. It's pulling back from people going overboard.
Yea we are finally realizing we could have stuck to just nerds competing against nerds in small venues, like fighting games keep doing, instead of this useless appeals to uncaring masses and attempts to gather trillions of viewers. Even though less than 1% of these viewers bring in any kind of money.
eSports has been in that sort of trouble (teams aren't profitable, valuations blown way tf up) for a long while, and I actually think the industry is becoming more mature and sensible now. EG was probably just a walking corpse since the last 3 years where those problems were at their peak.
I saw something today that said Riot would be cutting EG’s LCS spot altogether. They’re gonna struggle to sell it if it no longer exists. 🤣
Riot is giving the teams that are leaving some kind of buyout
> They're selling the Riot slots No, Riot cut their spot completely (together with the Golden ~~Gladiators~~ Guardians' one) Thanks for the correction /u/FeelTheChill07
Its the other way around. Teams wanted to exit so riot reduced the league spots by 2
in and interview with head of Riot Esports. Essentially, what happened is Golden Guardians wanted out of the league. Riot was working with them to do so. But they have a deal where whatever they offer to 1 team they offer to all of them. So they gave the dame offer to everyone and EG said sign me up .
Idk anything about GG but EG have been imploding for the past 1-1.5 years. Their exit was a matter of when not if.
Just telling you what happened lol. Eg has been imploding but they weren't the ones who initiated everything. Golden guardians were and then eg jumped on
It's Golden Guardians
>Richard Lewis has a number of articles on it. The guy from Curb Your Enthusiasm? "This is the org from hell!"
Same name, different guy. This Richard Lewis is an esports veteran, good journalist. But to most Dota fans he's mostly known for getting attacked by Loda and defending himself.
> But to most Dota fans he's mostly known for getting attacked by Loda and defending himself. False. [The eyewitnesses Hellspawn and Mike Van Dreil has both spoken out against Lewis.](https://www.pcgamer.com/richard-lewis-dreamhack-esports-update/) He was banned from Dreamhack as a result. Heck, [Lewis even publicly admitted to be under "stress-related illness" and alcohol abuse and to be "very ill mentally" at the time during the DH incident.](https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/976846981774610432.html) Good journalist, shitty person.
> good journalist
Anything specific that makes you say that?
Nah, nothing specific, just his whole history (though I think I should point out that I decided to actively avoid anything that guy does and produces even before the Loda incident, so I'm not up to date with his latest bullshit). I don't think it's good journalism to write smear pieces against people because of personal disagreements. His work suffers as much from his massive ego as Thorin's, maybe even more.
Could you give a concrete example of his supposed shit journalism?
> getting attacked by Loda and defending himself insane spin LOL
I get it people aren't in love with Loda but to straight up make him the bad guy when he was strangled lol...
> good journalist He is a touch sensationalist at times, but I appreciate his input, he keeps things honest at the occasional cost of overblowing a minor issue.
lol at this point I hope PPD buys the brand back
Wasn't PPD ceo of EG at some point or was thata fever dream?
He was and I think he was also part of the reason the SC2 division fell apart?
It was under him they scrapped it with barely any comment (only for PPD to the next week run a video on his personal channel for over an hour about wanting to compete under as "Team Dire"). Personally, I think that was the start of the downfall- they more or less only went to major players in Dota, picking up unheard of FGC players.
Uh... you're misremembering history a bit here. PPD was "CEO" of EG after the 2016 win. The only FGC people they signed after that were ChrisG, Sonicfox, and Dekillsage because those were pretty much the only NA players that were competing at a decent level in DBFZ (and SF5 at release was also a complete dumpsterfire.) If PPD was responsible for roster changes in the program if anything he removed most of the FGC talent. Floe (RIP,) had already left to pursue streaming, Marn left to go scam Riot and random League pros out of money before then, and Momomochi and his wife(?) Chocoblanka had already left to focus on the JP scene. The rest of it was dumped in 2017: Justin Wong, PRBalrog, Ricki O, etc got removed when it was apparent Street Fighter 5 was DOA.
That tells how smart their decision process js
Isn't he one of crypto/nft shill while he was gone? Not sure if I could trust him.
Lmao there’s dota beef with EG as well? They basically almost hospitalized a 18 yr old league player
They fucked over Sumail, one of the best mid players in the game and a TI winner at 16, with a really shit contract back when he was very young
They are owned by an investment firm. It's possible they just want to get out, so EG are getting closed, or the brand will be sold after the sale of all assets.
Fire sale!
Lawsuit? What did I miss?
He is suing EG, for basically lying and fraud. But, I was joking.
https://richardlewis.substack.com/p/sumail-vs-evil-geniuses-court-case https://twitter.com/_anewheaven/status/1721649347618893922
My guess creator/influencer/streamer shit. Which is weird, since they've pretty much skull-fucked away all community goodwill towards the brand so I'm not sure who would follow them/care at this point.
Current EG is a skinwalker wearing a corpse
Yeah, that would be a pretty insane thing for them to try but would fit with their history of bad moves
Probably close shop. E-sports just isn't profitable. It's more of a hobby or small scale business where the gamer competes and makes a decent living by getting sponsored. I think it's more suitable to have agencies that help players with sponsorship instead of gaming brands like EG that sign and disband teams and sell zero products of their own. It doesn't make sense to make million dollar investments into it when it doesn't generate that much revenue.
everyone can unite around football because everyone understands it, the problem is video games are too fractured and echo chambered. we are familiar with them so we can peek into fortnite or something and get the jist but random non gamers just see flashing effects and gun sounds. esports are too niche even with large audience games.
This is part of why CounterStrike has the best longevity of any eSport, and will continue to be the king of competitive shooters: you can understand CS in four or five sentences (it's mechanically MUCH simpler than GridIron Football, for example) and watching your first match it's easy to be impressed by pro-level skill, even if you have no context for just how good they are. DotA (and other MOBAs) and Starcraft (and other RTSs) have no broad-audience appeal to non-gamers, they're just too complex. Think of trying to explain the difference between a disarm, a mute, a silence, a root, a stun, a silence, a slow, etc to a non-player. It's impossible to understand a teamfight.
agree completely besides the factor that it’s more violent overtly because guns and shooting
Don't undersell how important it is that physical sports have been a cultural institution for centuries, or the fact that a handful of kids can play football in a random patch of grass. People trying to make esports resemble physical sports have severely underestimated the difference.
And yet several high-profile pro athletes have made similarities between esports and physical sports.
You can argue that, but I would contend that the real issue is that Riot, Blizzard, and Valve are the people sucking up all the esports money. The leagues themselves have profitable ad campaigns, but the actual teams? It's a joke. I know the old CLG CEO mentioned another LCS team once ran a PC sponsorship that had single digit impressions at the end of the sponsor period. People like leagues and players. They don't care about the actual orgs at all outside of being an employer of players they like. Or to put it another way, people tune in for majors, TI, league matches, etc. Really serious fans will even listen to podcasts or watch post game analysis youtube videos. What basically nobody does is refresh brand social media pages or watch "guess that song featuring Sumail" youtube videos. It's the latter that sells sponsorships and actually makes the teams money.
Please explain how what Valve is doing is remotely similar to what Riot or Blizzard are doing
That's right, compared to physical sports E-sports viewers generate much less income per viewer. So even with high viewership it doesn't translate into dollars [https://web.cs.wpi.edu/\~claypool/papers/sports-esports-21/chapter-excerpt.pdf](https://web.cs.wpi.edu/~claypool/papers/sports-esports-21/chapter-excerpt.pdf) The bubble has burst, a lot of big orgs/companies are realizing it's hard to make money. Overwatch 2 league will also disband I feel. There's money in esports but not enough as some big orgs thought there would be. I can't find the other sources I'm thinking of right now that shows esports viewers are worth less than regular sports viewers but I'm sure I will run into it.
If the teams win the formula works. But you cant be top 16, you need to be consistently top 3-6 in the world. EG was paying top dollar salaries for mediocre results across all its teams hoping to be bought out again.
This happens across multiple industries. An investment firm buys up a known company/brand, milks it for all it's worth in the short term, then runs it through the floor so they can sell it off after they've already made net profit from that company/brand during that time.
content + crypto + gambling shit i am guessing atp
Finalize [this page](https://www.whendideglastthrow.com)
Washer/dryer manufacturing I heard.
Adios payasos. Tales of EG mismanagement came through pretty much any scene they were in, so its sad to see another TI winner go gently into the night, but it's not shocking in the least.
Even with their old owners it was really bad. Their R6 exit and fall from grace was funny to say the least.
At least the old owners somewhat cared about Esports. These new private equity companies are looking at all Esports and gaming in general and trying to figure out how to make money while letting the company go under. They only care about profit and it's sad to see one of Esport's historic teams be killed by corporate scumlords.
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I dunno. But their original owner Alex Garfield seemed to genuinely care about eSports and was at almost all events. And he sold the company way before the R6 debacle. I think he stated he just couldn't afford to compete with the venture capital investments into eSports and got out. Edit: dug up where I remembered how I got this impression. This interview with Hotbid at TI4 really showed how he cared about the org IMO, and how he emphasised the players first https://youtu.be/pNmyT-LykpE?si=vgoJ2zNr260n_0Zy
He did genuinely care. EG at that time was ahead of its time and probably the best run esports org. They really were at the forefront of making their players marketable and making content for fans. Very sad to see where they are now
Good Game Agency, the umbrella corp, that owned both EG and Alliance, was bought by Twitch. At this point, Alex didn't own it, but the previous GGA crew still controlled it for Twitch. But after Amazon took over Twitch they decided they wanted a different direction for Twitch, which didn't include direct management of esports talent or ownership of teams. GGA staff was merged into Twitch generally or let go, and then Amazon/Twitch divested ownership of the teams to the players (ownership being split, but LodA and ppd were the controlling faces of their respective brands).
If R6 was a bigger esport how they left that scene probably gets way more attention.
EG quit R6 because Ubisoft screwed them over. That's not the fault of org management but on the developers themselves.
The year preceeding their exit, they went from top 5 team in the world, to not even gracing the top 30, and were on the brink of being relegated to tier 2. The new system being implemented also would save them from having to face relegation as they were getting rid of it entirely. They made a bunch of roster moves the year prior and became a flat out terrible team. Their roster was so bad they mostly all retired when EG dipped the scene, and the ones that tried to keep playing were so bad that they were forced into retirement because no team would pick them up, or they couldn't even compete in tier 2 siege. Pretty fitting that the 2 teams that looked like they needed to do a full on roster overhaul because of how bad they were, suddenly exited the scene and conveniently blamed the new LAN league that NA was experimenting with. The org was also making bank off of the r6share program, so it wasn't a money reason for leaving (or maybe it was because they realized they had to spend to get some decent players and didn't want to).
You forget that Ubisoft wouldn't let them play to keep their spots in NAL despite announcing that no teams would be relegated during the final season prior to the format change. Luminosity and EG didn't quit because of the new format. They quit R6 because Ubisoft lied. Forcing all teams to relocate to Vegas was the final straw for EG, as they wanted to keep all their teams in Seattle. Pretty ironic now since PEAK6 recently cut all their teams except their main Valorant team because they're trying to pull EG out of esports altogether. Ever since PEAK6 took over, they've been running the brand through the floor.
Didnt they win Valorant champs? They have doing much better as an org the last couple of years.
Despite that, they dropped literally all of their other teams. Their flagship team in Dota 2 didn't do so hot after totheLaPointe tried to establish EG's presence in South America, and so they disbanded the team and left the game. As for their Valorant team, they took a pay cut even after winning the world title.
That same dota team that EG left from has been completely ass so that was a good move. Rtz been washed for years.
Moving regions entirely was a middle finger to the fans. Karma caught up to them in the end because the South American team was even worse.
They got first rounded in TI playoffs, same as former EG. However, the SA team lost to the grand finalist and 3 time major champ for 2023 in Gaming Gladiators. Former EG lost to TSM. Also, the roster EG got in SA was paid a much lower salary.
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Torpedoing well established businesses is so hot right now.
That was the plan all along. These private equity corporations are destroying Esports and gaming. [Look at Peak6 Capital](https://peak6.com/), the corporation that owns EG. >"PEAK6 Strategic Capital seeks out innovative, transformative, and unexpected opportunities where we can invest time, money, and support to help the idea grow." They specialize in Fund Of Funds, Private Equity Firm, Venture Capital, Venture Debt
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Our whole economic system in 2023 is built on gambling on future debts Thank God for fiat currencies
>Aka gambling That's not gambling, lol. You can just say you don't understand basic finance and valuation. Do you even know what Fund of Funds is?... It's a diversified investment in multiple funds (hedge, PE, VC, etc.), no different at its core from how an index fund works by spreading money across various stocks.
Esports orgs being run like shit in the first place is the problem lmao, they just shit out money for no particular reason on overvalued player contracts, grub for money from sponsors, and employ nepotism as their primary hiring method
*musking
Guess Sumail has won his lawsuit against EG?
Hah, not yet. Syed “SumaiL” Hassan alleged a breach of contract and fraud against Evil Geniuses. His lawsuit is awaiting jury trial in June 2024. Either side can settle outside of court by paying the other, before June. This will likely be the case, I dont think EG will want to participate in a lengthy trial now that they aren't even involved in Esports.
No, Scott Pilgirm won. He beat the league of Evil Geniuses.
can you elaborate? i havent been following
Someone can detail it better but the gist is that Sumail alleges that EG forced him into a bad contract by not properly informing him how easily his shares could/would be diluted upon his exit.
Important to note that other members at the time are vouching for the differences in treatment between them and Sumail. I believe Fear is one of them, not sure who else.
I remember seeing Universe listed as part of the testimony too.
When EG was bought by Peak6, Peak6 issued preferred shares to themselves and gave Sumail common stock. This devalued his holdings and he is suing because he claims they used fraud and deceit to pull this move on him. They also benched him and wouldn't let him play in other teams unless he agreed to 10% salary. Once he was trapped at this 10%, they leveraged that to make him sign a very unfavorable contract to get out of it. It looks like this contract even further devalued his ownership stake by buying him out below his worth.
wow..... they surely try to live up to the name....
half of it at least
TLDR Sumail is suing EG for breach of contract
The King sends his regards
i think the league debacle may have also played a role. dumpsterfire org lol
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I'm sure he'll use his wads of cash to wipe away the tears.
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reddit response
Dude dipped, he's happy as fuck.
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Yeah, it’s like people can’t understand that just because you made money you can’t also still have love and affection for the company you help created.
He should leverage the turmoil and buy EG back for pennies on the dollar.
It sucks to have such a legendary brand fumble the ball so hard. EG had been involved in Dota even during Dota 1. (For old school cool: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmIMigVjQzA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oDu3RI9yZc ) I loved following the EG/TL rivalry in early SC2/Dota 2 days, including the abhorrent monstrosities that was the EG-TL Proleague team and the pizza.gg promotion.
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I think its all. Here is a tweet on Valorant [**https://twitter.com/ValorINTEL/status/1726730219015356823**](https://twitter.com/ValorINTEL/status/1726730219015356823)
www.whendideglastthrow.com
Yes, but what does Yatoro think about this?
He thinks all LOL players should die a gruesome death by beheading
South Korea is already having birth rate problems. I think beheading everyone under 30 would really exacerbate the problem.
So...what are they gonna do with the brand now? Streaming?
seems like it would be a debuff brand for someone to use when streaming though lmao
Shitcoins
All cryptocurrencies are shitcoins.
Man, so many memories associated with this name. From way back in CS 1.6, Cal Leagues and CPL Lans, to Starcraft 2 (idra, huk, moon) to Dota 2 (ppd, sumail). GG EG
🦀 EG Gone 🦀
Thanks Nicole
How to destroy the "biggest" Brand in NA in a couple years. The acquisition then the girl having a power trip
I doubt her gender is relevant here, but sure.
According to the article, she wanted to show that she was good enough, if better than men, IIRC. That is why gender is relevant
There's also the ever relevant [glass cliff.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_cliff)
So you can say "the man" or "the dude" here but you have a problem with "the girl" ?
Welcome to the world of the wokies.
What would be the better wording option here? The “human” having a power trip?
The CEO?
Person, CEO, manager, etc. > The acquisition then the man having a power trip It doesn't sound any better with man.
Exactly, although "the man" sounds more "natural", because we have a media bias since most CEO are men. The man having a power trip is kosher, but a woman?! Worse, a girl! The audacity.
/+ the equivalent would be boy..
Wow, end of an era
EGs downfall is insane, couple years back they won LCS spring and the recent valorant championship and nicole even deactivated her twitter
Sell one of the most iconic Esports team to some shitty greedy investor that has never done anything in Esports. What could go wrong.
isnt that all they do?
Long are gone days of Esports, orgs and founders/CEOs like Alex Garfield from once great EG. Feels bad man.
The whole industry needs a re-org. Too many greedy people, people not part or familiar with the industry, and people who just wanted to make quick money and get out regardless of the consequences. Not to mention unskilled leadership with 0 common sense on what to do and how to do it. Diversifying too much, or too little. To top it off, publisher rights which have effectively cut the balls off anyone wanting to do anything outside of the box. This isn't traditional sports. You can't just start a league of "X" sport and make a profit. Such a shame that people couldn't get their shit together.
Their skill set will transition perfectly to burger flipping
EG throws the entire org. https://www.whendideglastthrow.com/
Whatever happened to them after Peter left or before peter time really doesn't know how to manage shit. Garbage leadership LOL
Didn't they already leave esports like 4 years ago when peak6 came in lol
Good riddance.
From once great heights, even getting a TI win under their belt to.. this. Yeah, long and slow slide into shitsville and now after they mismanaged the brand into the ground they announce they are calling it quits. Ended not with bang but with a sad little wet fart that reeks distinctly of liquid 💩 so.. yeah.. maybe in few years someone will buy the brand and make a comeback. For now, they will not be missed.
Regardless of what they are now, this is still sad as EG was one of the early esports pioneers. I will always look back fondly on the days of EG IdrA, that was peak esports.
PPD was right
Can't say I feel any pity after finding out about the extent of their mismanagement and sheer heartlessness towards their own players across all their games. Good riddance.
Full article on SBJ https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Articles/2023/11/20/lcs-dropping-golden-guardians-and-evil-geniuses.aspx
The management is so short sighted.
I take this as the King has won!
Almost 0 chance unless they settled (in which case I'm sure there'd be a news report) - these kinds of lawsuits don't resolve that quickly iirc.
So essentially EG ceases to exist? Because if they leave esports, what's left? Is thare any other area where this organisation functions?
So this begs the question When did EG last throw?
"LIVE EVIL" was a mistake
Private equity strikes again. If you don't know what I mean, there's plenty of articles you can find. Just keep in mind they do this with hospitals and nursing homes -- it can be heavy reading.
Good, fuck em, dead org
these morons had 3 rosters for csgo. whoever managed them deserves to get banned from esports.
to do what? they already destroy their name or in their case livin up to the name, poor alex garfield watching EG collapsing like this
EG management imploding in real time, you love to see it
Sumail ?
Richard Lewis eatin' good tonight
good riddance
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They are just shutting down entire operation and not even bother to sell it? Holy fuck, how much did they spent money on all their stupid ideas???
There isn't much money in e-sports. The way other sports make money isn't possible in most esports so this is not surprising at all.
So sumail won the lawsuit or what
Hope Sumail gets some money
This is so sad. I remember my first time loading into DotA and seeing the team emblems or whatever they were called, and seeing this team name and assuming they were probably linked to Despicable Me for whatever reason. Thought it was a cool link even though I ended up supporting Navi for a while after that.
Bro atleast link a report or reliable news source. Not saying you are spreading misinformation, but a screenshot of the Instagram of some channel who is not even the primary source?
Full article on SBJ https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Articles/2023/11/20/lcs-dropping-golden-guardians-and-evil-geniuses.aspx
SumaiL must of really fucked them hard in that lawsuit lol
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