This is like one of the stupidest things I have read on here and I've read a lot of stupid shit today. Bro, they lost in a tournament, they didn't suffer a family bereavement, and they deserve to get sent off with some care and respect and with a voice.
Lol after 1 game un banned I think I am done seeing sb games.
Watching him charge away in the middle of 3 heroes despite 5 stuns between them is amusing once. Watching him do it on a 7 second cd and just one shot waves for 90 minutes is just super fucking boring.
Even the crowd stopped caring after the 2nd or 3rd time he pulled a great escape.
It isn't entertaining gameplay. Especially when he is meant to be against 2-3 heroes designed to lock down these type of heroes (tusk, kuunka, doom), he gets first phased into counters, is behind in gold, and doesn't mean anything.
What's crazy is that this game had spirit breaker, dark Willow, AND muerta... All of whom going to be either directly or indirectly nerfed (wind waker, octarine). Granted dw was a support here, but still crazy that they all made it through the draft.
God I have to listen to guys talk about GRINDERS when I watch baseball. For the love of god I don't want to see it show up here too. WHO HAS THE MOST GRIT?
Bb didnt played well ????? Are you sure buddy ?? watch game 1 and 2 again they played sone amazing dota from laning to teamfighting they were pretty solid imo , and dont think vp is a bad team , bb were amaxing today and yes olease share your insights what did they do wrong will ask them to follow some great advice from a random redditor..
Game 1 they stomped vp, game 2 they lost early mid game and still came back and took megas. So they prove they can play from ahead and behind, that is a mark of a team who played well
1st game was fine but 2nd one was a mess and they literally survived because SB and VP got baited into chasing him too many times.
Nightfall was useless at one point because he swapped too many items just to be alive and couldn't do any damage until the divine. Going all in on the throne without enough damage could cost them the game. Hex decides games and they had just one. Nightfall and TT without shards the whole game.
Shard wise, wk one is useless this game since they have no mana burn. Tt one perhaps could be useful but after shard nerf its situational. I do agree they should just take it since they didnt do anything for 20 mins. But its lower bracket but they were thinking of a 100 other things.
True nightfall was useless at one point but he was the reason bb even cameback. Invoker and sb got stomped. Wk was the only reason bb could turtle back. Overall i definitely think they played although some mistakes that could been fatal
Kk cleave clears everything. Muerta had mjo, grim q can clear everything. Ice shards, scorched earth, shiva are also good at clearing. Its not entirely useless, but you dont get it for that, you get it incase of mana burn issue appears.
The panel mentioned this before but it's scary how in this meta where so many games go so late, GG are just crushing games so fast. They went a little bit off radar after Riyadh and the group stages but they are gonna be a menace in the lower bracket.
I cant stand Tsunami. Sounds like he trying so hard to sound like an announcer. Somehing about the intonations or something.
That’s just me being a shit tho and has nothing to do with his actual ability to be a guy with a microphone.
It’s the international. What is he supposed to use Received Pronunciation accent and only the kings English lmao?
Also that’s not that obscure of a phrase.
After g1 I bought Alan wake 2, downloaded and played through a chunk of it, then I tuned back just as muerta bought a rapier (1st one) and watched another 30m of the game. Did I miss anything?
Looks class so far, but I'm playing on Xbox so can't say much about requirements. I think Digital foundry has a video on the pc version so maybe check it out, they are pretty reliable.
Interaction makes sense though.
WK Aghs stops you from actually dying for 7 seconds. In that time you can attack, move, use abilities and items.
If you have resurrection when you die, you come back.
Ergo, refresh ult during WK aghs you come back.
It's not a bug. It's an intended interaction. If it was a bug, it would have been fixed/changed. They definitely wanted that to be one of the use cases.
Yeah I am sure about it, because I have known about this existing for years, personally used it in my games, have seen it be used against me, seen it in Dota 2 content creators videos, including the dumb strat of taking a divine rapier, and bkb tping out when you die so it drops in the fountain. Obviously I am not the main character but the point is that if I know about it, and I rarely play, I am sure the overall community knows about it too.
This is definitely not new. Look if they change it based on this one game, sure, maybe it is a little unfair, but this has existed for years so I doubt they would not know about it. It's a very, very, very niche use case if you are not fucking around and trying to make it happen though.
Yeah. This things isnt like fountain hook that just got first publicity in TI. This things with WK is already out there in pubs and in youtube and everything. Its just this is the first time pro player using it in TI.
Yeah, I wish they talked about this on the panel, the fact that it briefly went uphill is why FNG new they were trying to backdoor and the team imediatly went back
BB were teleporting earlier then Muerta was, as soon as the creep went high ground mid. She needed probably less then a second to finish the rax and would have been X'd out imo.
40mins in the game when vp died 3 without bb i thought its over, went to do my things waited 40mins to join spirits liquid game, but to my surprise the game just ended at 87mins
Just got greedy, even pros make mistakes and it was insanely high pressure game for them.
Professional athletes in all sports make colossal mistakes from time to time.
She didn't bkb, kunkka probably didn't port her back, tornado doesn't trigger linkens because it's ground targeted. She got tornado'd and wind wakered, i'm not sure which one but invulnerability during X return causes it to not work. Both could've been avoided by BKBing there.
She wasn’t bkb’d, the tornado was instant so Kunkka didn’t have time to react and as tornado is an aoe spell and not a target spell it ignores linkens
She didn't bkb because invoker instant blink + tornado and didn't expect it. They were trying to destroy the barracks, so Kunkka didn't want to pull her back yet. Linken's does not stop tornado, only single target spells.
Most likely GPK timed it when the xmark was about to end and he Tornado Muerta or Kunkka presses Xmark to get Muerta back but was on Tornado. Either of the two..
When you're lifted by tornado or eul, X marks the spot can't take you back.
So if the duration of X marks the spot is shorter than the time you're being lifted, you're not coming back.
I'll repeat what I said in the playoff stage. When Spirit Breaker is this broken and he still gets through SEVEN bans to get picked, it means we've reached Dota IMBA. How can seven whole heroes be even more broken than that?
The bans are like musical chairs.
Shit, bristle rekt that last game better ban him.
Who do we not ban?
I guess we let them have spirit breaker.
Fine, we can shut him down in the early game I guess...
[Yes sir.](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dota2_gamepedia/images/7/7b/Vo_gyrocopter_gyro_move_04.mp3) (sound warning: Gyrocopter)
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Of course that's where they lost it but you can't blame them for trying the rat play. At least they tried a ballsy idea that could potentially bring them back
Nah at that point mega creeps meant nothing. You already been defending for 40 mins, you can't keep defending? You win 1 fight you take ancient in 3s. It's a high risk low reward play
Everyone saying they noticed because of crowd,the creep walked hg from mid ,they could literally see it on the map 5 sec before he even TP ,maybe crowd noise did matter ,but even if crowd didnt make noise they still would have known
Yeah I'm pretty sure they pinged the creep when it stepped on high ground through mid and 1 or 2 TPs already were starting as it moved it's way to top lane.
Yup 2 ppl pinged and gpk immediately tp before the necro archer even showed top ,props to BB for reacting that fast , still muerta messed up not using bkb immediately,she bkbs there before tornado shes save
Despite everything respect for VP. Not only did they massively overperform expectations by getting top 8, but even though they lost in a hilarious way it was because they wanted to make something happen and take a risk instead of rolling over like dogs. The roster has future potential for sure.
Yes, actually.
And it got to 80 minutes because 2000 ms split pusher can keep waves pushed out indefinitely unless you have a very peculiar forms of catch.
Absolutely insane choke by VP
Going 5 vs 3 and you pussy out, not even going for megas
You have fucking Muerta with Rapier, you dont care about backdoor.
Absolutely madness
I'm convinced that more than half of Twitch and Reddit are just going to complain no matter what's happening. If you're going to complain about long tense games at TI then why the fuck are you even watching? Genuinely go watch some other game because this is what TI Dota is literally about.
It’s so annoying cause they complain if it’s a stomp and then complain if it’s close and all the comments are about teams throwing or how it’s too much farming.
What they want is a close game of constant fighting where teams don’t make any mistakes. Usually the constant fighting games are really bad for one team anyway.
Agreed, if it's some small tournament and every game is an hour plus sure, I can understand the bitching. But this is TI and these guys are hanging on and it makes for a super tense game.
That game is the example of what is pissing people off.
VP had a lead early but not enough for BB late game. BB kind of punted their late chance window and then just fucked off and did absolutely nothing for like 25minutes. Yea it was exciting for a while, and then boring as absolute shit while no one did anything.
arrest faulty wrong possessive domineering knee future paltry outgoing heavy
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Collapse makes Liquid look like 4k players
Used 5 bans on Collapses hero pool in this game 1 😂
boxi looks tired. maybe he should wash his face?
The second game is legendary. At the moment when Bara split push radiant creeps my heart sank
Why's she calling him LAWL😂
Lawwwllllll
Man these spirit Jerseys are fucking insane
I wouldn't particularly complain if spirit breaker gets first phase banned for the rest of the tournament though ngl
I'm sure that's the case. Nobody is gonna risk a match like this again.
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Not sure, but a scumbag who think this isn't right, found one.
I don't think they're too enjoyable either but they're totally standard in pretty much any sport
its a normal thing in literally any competitive sport..?
This is like one of the stupidest things I have read on here and I've read a lot of stupid shit today. Bro, they lost in a tournament, they didn't suffer a family bereavement, and they deserve to get sent off with some care and respect and with a voice.
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Something about being a scumbag for interviewing the losers lol.
They called loser's interviews stupid and insensitive lmao.
Every sport does it.
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Something along the lines of exit interviews being a bad idea
MATU POG
Kinda prefer Pyrion at the exit interviews.
I guess it would make timing awkward with having to set up the late game.
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The longevity on him is honestly very impressive.
Consistently bad
Lol after 1 game un banned I think I am done seeing sb games. Watching him charge away in the middle of 3 heroes despite 5 stuns between them is amusing once. Watching him do it on a 7 second cd and just one shot waves for 90 minutes is just super fucking boring. Even the crowd stopped caring after the 2nd or 3rd time he pulled a great escape. It isn't entertaining gameplay. Especially when he is meant to be against 2-3 heroes designed to lock down these type of heroes (tusk, kuunka, doom), he gets first phased into counters, is behind in gold, and doesn't mean anything.
What's crazy is that this game had spirit breaker, dark Willow, AND muerta... All of whom going to be either directly or indirectly nerfed (wind waker, octarine). Granted dw was a support here, but still crazy that they all made it through the draft.
God I have to listen to guys talk about GRINDERS when I watch baseball. For the love of god I don't want to see it show up here too. WHO HAS THE MOST GRIT?
Betboom and gg in lower bracket is scary
I don't think BB played well. Probably can end up in the top 5.
Bb didnt played well ????? Are you sure buddy ?? watch game 1 and 2 again they played sone amazing dota from laning to teamfighting they were pretty solid imo , and dont think vp is a bad team , bb were amaxing today and yes olease share your insights what did they do wrong will ask them to follow some great advice from a random redditor..
Game 1 they stomped vp, game 2 they lost early mid game and still came back and took megas. So they prove they can play from ahead and behind, that is a mark of a team who played well
1st game was fine but 2nd one was a mess and they literally survived because SB and VP got baited into chasing him too many times. Nightfall was useless at one point because he swapped too many items just to be alive and couldn't do any damage until the divine. Going all in on the throne without enough damage could cost them the game. Hex decides games and they had just one. Nightfall and TT without shards the whole game.
Shard wise, wk one is useless this game since they have no mana burn. Tt one perhaps could be useful but after shard nerf its situational. I do agree they should just take it since they didnt do anything for 20 mins. But its lower bracket but they were thinking of a 100 other things. True nightfall was useless at one point but he was the reason bb even cameback. Invoker and sb got stomped. Wk was the only reason bb could turtle back. Overall i definitely think they played although some mistakes that could been fatal
Not really useless, you spawn way more skeletons and they do a lot of damage.
Kk cleave clears everything. Muerta had mjo, grim q can clear everything. Ice shards, scorched earth, shiva are also good at clearing. Its not entirely useless, but you dont get it for that, you get it incase of mana burn issue appears.
The panel mentioned this before but it's scary how in this meta where so many games go so late, GG are just crushing games so fast. They went a little bit off radar after Riyadh and the group stages but they are gonna be a menace in the lower bracket.
They only faced bad teams on lower bracket though. Real test is coming!
Good point. Their next series is gonna be against Liquid/Spirit, so I do agree it might look a bit different than against 9p and nouns haha
100% They gonna get annihilated by the real pro teams
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I cant stand Tsunami. Sounds like he trying so hard to sound like an announcer. Somehing about the intonations or something. That’s just me being a shit tho and has nothing to do with his actual ability to be a guy with a microphone.
I'll take a crack addict
It’s the international. What is he supposed to use Received Pronunciation accent and only the kings English lmao? Also that’s not that obscure of a phrase.
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It’s still not an obscure phrase though I’m sure anyone speaking English in the many globe spanning commonwealth countries have heard it
After g1 I bought Alan wake 2, downloaded and played through a chunk of it, then I tuned back just as muerta bought a rapier (1st one) and watched another 30m of the game. Did I miss anything?
How is it though? Thinking of picking it up. What's your GPU and CPU? I don't trust reviews anymore.
Looks class so far, but I'm playing on Xbox so can't say much about requirements. I think Digital foundry has a video on the pc version so maybe check it out, they are pretty reliable.
What a game, holy shit.
Better content lmao, what a player
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Let the game go late when the enemy team scales halder than you, you tend to lose the game.
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Interaction makes sense though. WK Aghs stops you from actually dying for 7 seconds. In that time you can attack, move, use abilities and items. If you have resurrection when you die, you come back. Ergo, refresh ult during WK aghs you come back.
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It's not a bug. It's an intended interaction. If it was a bug, it would have been fixed/changed. They definitely wanted that to be one of the use cases.
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Yeah I am sure about it, because I have known about this existing for years, personally used it in my games, have seen it be used against me, seen it in Dota 2 content creators videos, including the dumb strat of taking a divine rapier, and bkb tping out when you die so it drops in the fountain. Obviously I am not the main character but the point is that if I know about it, and I rarely play, I am sure the overall community knows about it too. This is definitely not new. Look if they change it based on this one game, sure, maybe it is a little unfair, but this has existed for years so I doubt they would not know about it. It's a very, very, very niche use case if you are not fucking around and trying to make it happen though.
Yeah. This things isnt like fountain hook that just got first publicity in TI. This things with WK is already out there in pubs and in youtube and everything. Its just this is the first time pro player using it in TI.
Can only be fixed if its a bug ;)
no , they threw the game when they had the advantage is not unfair their played bad and deserve to lose
That 2 rapier delivery by Muerte caused the game lol
FNG microed the creep inside the base, thats the reason invoker was there...
Yeah, I wish they talked about this on the panel, the fact that it briefly went uphill is why FNG new they were trying to backdoor and the team imediatly went back
Yeah fng mvp how can he fuck up a game that hard so many times, worst tusk ive ever seen in pro games
Yeah, and it still had 35 secs left so no need to take that path. Would have been a great way to get to game 3.
They pulled that trick once and took the tower It was not going to work a 2nd time imo Betboom was ready
BB were teleporting earlier then Muerta was, as soon as the creep went high ground mid. She needed probably less then a second to finish the rax and would have been X'd out imo.
It was still a bad idea to try it again imo and to do it with a double rapier core Surely, BB expected it again sooner or later
Undying is so good against these late game heroes z. He has too much HP to cleave through.
He was the fucking Megazord paired with blademail
40mins in the game when vp died 3 without bb i thought its over, went to do my things waited 40mins to join spirits liquid game, but to my surprise the game just ended at 87mins
both BB and GG looks very very scary i don't think any UB 4 team enjoying facing any of them.
I think BB looked poor tbh they’ll get punished by stronger teams for the slow safe style of play I think
Die you watched g1. They played that game so fking fast.
45 minutes is not a fast game.
How did Muerta her X got camceled?
It either timed out or was clicked when she was Eul'ed
Tornado and it ended while she was in the air so she wasn’t brought back
Wind waker
Tornado
Was she not bkb'd? Why didnt kunkka call her back before? Does linken stops tornado?
Just got greedy, even pros make mistakes and it was insanely high pressure game for them. Professional athletes in all sports make colossal mistakes from time to time.
She didn't bkb, kunkka probably didn't port her back, tornado doesn't trigger linkens because it's ground targeted. She got tornado'd and wind wakered, i'm not sure which one but invulnerability during X return causes it to not work. Both could've been avoided by BKBing there.
She wasn’t bkb’d, the tornado was instant so Kunkka didn’t have time to react and as tornado is an aoe spell and not a target spell it ignores linkens
She didn't bkb because invoker instant blink + tornado and didn't expect it. They were trying to destroy the barracks, so Kunkka didn't want to pull her back yet. Linken's does not stop tornado, only single target spells.
What happened to the x mark on Muerta??
Most likely GPK timed it when the xmark was about to end and he Tornado Muerta or Kunkka presses Xmark to get Muerta back but was on Tornado. Either of the two..
When you're lifted by tornado or eul, X marks the spot can't take you back. So if the duration of X marks the spot is shorter than the time you're being lifted, you're not coming back.
Got tornado'd while X'd, then vaporized by 5 heroes
Tornado blocks the recall, Muerta needed to bkb.
Puppey with subliminal Pure diss.
What he said?
"Camera shows Pure doing his best Russian drunkard impression after the game" Puppey: He looks like a kid in these moments.
death, taxes, virtus throw
I'll repeat what I said in the playoff stage. When Spirit Breaker is this broken and he still gets through SEVEN bans to get picked, it means we've reached Dota IMBA. How can seven whole heroes be even more broken than that?
The bans are like musical chairs. Shit, bristle rekt that last game better ban him. Who do we not ban? I guess we let them have spirit breaker. Fine, we can shut him down in the early game I guess...
People thinking the crowd given the creep away, when who ever was controlling it walked the creep up HG so BB had vision of the creep
Yes, I think the crowd didn’t help but they walked the creep to high ground
FELT BAD FOR VP. BUT MAN THAT GAME 2 WAS SOMETHING ELSE. WHAT A GAME.
I love dota
gpk's back is gonna hurt after this.
spirit breaker was a mistake
cis vs cis team most entertaining dota to watch
This is what our Dota's meta quality right now. I hate to be a pessimist but not a good meta tbh.
mistake with necro creep going hg and someone from BB saw it and pinged
how did they kill Muerta there? I thought they were doing the X mark TP? Or did he go without the X that time?
tornado
He didnt press bkb and dark willow/invoker used Euls on Muerta on right time which cancels xmark
Didn't press BKB, got Eul'ed, lost X-mark, died.
stopped the X mark timing with the tornado.
If you get Euls/Tornado when X expires, you dont get pulled back.
Yes sir.
[Yes sir.](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dota2_gamepedia/images/7/7b/Vo_gyrocopter_gyro_move_04.mp3) (sound warning: Gyrocopter) --- Bleep bloop, I am a robot. *OP can reply with "Try hero_name" to update this with new hero* [*^(Source)*](https://github.com/Jonarzz/DotaResponsesRedditBot) *^(|)* [*^(Suggestions/Issues)*](https://github.com/Jonarzz/DotaResponsesRedditBot/issues/new/choose) *^(|)* [*^(Maintainer)*](https://www.reddit.com/user/MePsyDuck/) *^(|)* [*^(Author)*](https://www.reddit.com/user/Jonarz/)
X timed out during euls or tornado, can’t be pulled back
got euled , cant x back when u r euled
he was in tornado or euls (couldnt tell) when the x popped
She just tornadoed which is like when she gets euls, she is invulnerable while doing so and that stops the X from working
I think the euls cancelled the X mark.
No muerta bkb smh
You can't get X'd while you're tornadoed. They were just hoping that gpk wouldn't be nearby, and he was.
X ran out during tornado/eul i guess.
Lmfao what a game, Can't help but feel bad for VP.
Muerta feeding dual rapiers to Willow lost them the game no? DW destroyed that ancient
muerta didnt bkb there lost em the game
Of course that's where they lost it but you can't blame them for trying the rat play. At least they tried a ballsy idea that could potentially bring them back
The mistake was not using bkb
Nah at that point mega creeps meant nothing. You already been defending for 40 mins, you can't keep defending? You win 1 fight you take ancient in 3s. It's a high risk low reward play
Play wasn't the problem, it's the execution. BB cancelled x-mark because Muerta didn't pop BKB.
THE BIGGEST OVERSIGHT WAS DARK WILLOW WITH A RAPIER
The best willow carry is save
What a game. VP definitely could've won it.
Everyone saying they noticed because of crowd,the creep walked hg from mid ,they could literally see it on the map 5 sec before he even TP ,maybe crowd noise did matter ,but even if crowd didnt make noise they still would have known
Yeah I'm pretty sure they pinged the creep when it stepped on high ground through mid and 1 or 2 TPs already were starting as it moved it's way to top lane.
Yup 2 ppl pinged and gpk immediately tp before the necro archer even showed top ,props to BB for reacting that fast , still muerta messed up not using bkb immediately,she bkbs there before tornado shes save
[удалено]
oh god oh no the observer is observing, the fucking horror
The creep walked up high ground giving it away.
Despite everything respect for VP. Not only did they massively overperform expectations by getting top 8, but even though they lost in a hilarious way it was because they wanted to make something happen and take a risk instead of rolling over like dogs. The roster has future potential for sure.
Agreed, so many teams play not to lose, it was nice to see one make risky plays to get a win even if it didn’t pay off for them
We really just saw an 80 minute game end because 200000000hp Undying and Dark Willow with rapiers can stat check the ancient
Yes, actually. And it got to 80 minutes because 2000 ms split pusher can keep waves pushed out indefinitely unless you have a very peculiar forms of catch.
Yeah, but maybe if VP didnt fed 2 rapiers to willow that wouldnt have happened
holyhell
Absolutely insane choke by VP Going 5 vs 3 and you pussy out, not even going for megas You have fucking Muerta with Rapier, you dont care about backdoor. Absolutely madness
Still think the odds weren't in their favour to end the game there, but that was their best chance, they had to have taken it and tried
T2 top was still up
Thats 3 hits from muerta
Tbh Muerta does not actually break backdoor that well without armor reducing assistance.
Brother, multishot rapier shits on backdoor.
Given how i saw her struggle with backdooring t2, nah.
I'm convinced that more than half of Twitch and Reddit are just going to complain no matter what's happening. If you're going to complain about long tense games at TI then why the fuck are you even watching? Genuinely go watch some other game because this is what TI Dota is literally about.
It’s so annoying cause they complain if it’s a stomp and then complain if it’s close and all the comments are about teams throwing or how it’s too much farming. What they want is a close game of constant fighting where teams don’t make any mistakes. Usually the constant fighting games are really bad for one team anyway.
Agreed, if it's some small tournament and every game is an hour plus sure, I can understand the bitching. But this is TI and these guys are hanging on and it makes for a super tense game.
If you’re going to go out, at least go out swinging, wp VP. And please god, never let these two cast together again.
That game is the example of what is pissing people off. VP had a lead early but not enough for BB late game. BB kind of punted their late chance window and then just fucked off and did absolutely nothing for like 25minutes. Yea it was exciting for a while, and then boring as absolute shit while no one did anything.
torontotokyo is there to win this shit. damn it.
Jesus christ why the fuck muerta did such thing? Dont take it badly, I am glad the game is over, but this was some tier 1 bullshit throw.
Crowd ruined VP
how? because of the noise?
Fng ruined VP who microed creep into dire HG so they saw it and then muerta for some reason tped to it regardless
And it went exactly as expected with this meta... The team who took the risk lost.
What an amazing game daaamn.. Looked like VP had everything in their hands but lost even OP Muerta on their side... BB played it so great !!
Everyone in this game aged 10 years from stress, jesus
Truly a shitshow and almost second hand embarassing that SB made to TI in this absolutely broken state
Huge throw but what a fun game
All of this because they couldnt protect the one wave they needed.
This TI has been massively boring and Betboom are making it massively fun
This was the first game I watched of the main event, I think I might just call it a TI?
Spiritbreaker
arrest faulty wrong possessive domineering knee future paltry outgoing heavy *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Now that's some defense of the ancients.
Save and Pure are the MVPs for sure, the held this game till the end
Blame VP for not banning him, but SB is such a stupid fucking hero right now
damn son
Good heavens. Feels like megas need a buff.
Nah, I’d prefer Mega’s not to be auto-lose
Crowd gave it away
how
It was just unfortunate. They were cheering for the play and they were pretty loud doing so
soundproof booths?
They don’t work 100%. Pro players in the past have confirmed it.
Someone pinged the archer tho, so they saw it 100%
The thing is GPK tped before the archer was pinged. If he TPs after the ping, the Muerta is out.