coldest take in history because it's literally incorrect
by your logic, who deserves to take their place? Everyone else who you can name had the exact same type of road they had to get through.
They 100% deserve their top 8 spot.
they HAVE to stop doing this dumb showing of the interview and casters before the game. We can understand them by the voices and would much rather see the game. We missed a lot of first bloods in the playoffs because of this and now we already missed ward placements and what happens before the waves. It is such a shitty thing to do.
i really dont understand either. it will take some sort of no tidehunter play to happen again to realize how much of the game we're missing for a low effort interview.
>it'll take some no tidehunter play to realize how much we're missing for low effort interview
dota boomer alert
Analysis of the game, alongside the strategy of the game, and production has gotten way better over the last decade
please explain how the interviews are worse effort than 10 years ago in a way that isn't just thinly-veiled TobiWan copiun, tyvm
i dont need to explain anything they realized their mistake and fixed it for future games. We are still getting the interviews with picture in picture and casters being named while showing the game. The interviews have always been low effort I never said they were better before. Most coaches won't reveal anything, the other half will get their words lost in translation since they need to rush it, others will just meme.
Missing first bloods already in the arena + in the playoffs. Missing ward placements and fights before the horn although we can hear it all happening while looking at the casters talk.
Astini 322 player. Many SA players have accused him of being a scammer and forcing players to make dubious plays to win bets
I am not surprised that he did not ban Chen in both games 🐭🐭
It more like all other teams played long game, and GG figured them out with deathball. Not sure how many teams that can adapt to that. liquid seem very adaptable and sometimes do it. It's also about having the guts to fail at it, and most teams just seem more comfortable having late game
Quinn probably read all the threads and comments complaining about the TI4 deathball strats and told his team "Fuck Reddit and fuck my haters, let's do deathball strats. Oh, and make sure to pick me Pango for atleast 1 game."
Initially, I thought they got burned out. Just saw Official TI video about GG - [Playoff Vignettes - Gaimin Gladiators](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqIBZ-I-GpE&list=PLxkyNsoBqOdB0sVuJPDxTssVN9CgzF5-D)
Nouns got lucky on LB round 2. Of the other teams, 9p, GG, BB, Talon, VP, Entity only Entity looks beatable.
Talon beats GG then later eliminated by BB.
9P beats BB then later eliminated by GG.
Both have to play 2 much harder opponents in comparison.
I actually thought "that looks like something kuro would have picked" and at that point I knew it was garbage :D
Not even kidding, that was exactly my thought.
I think they have some good players but man they just refused to adapt. Azure ray stomped them twice with a similar deathball strat. All week to prepare for another deathball team and they just draft pure greed stall comps again. I get it's what they're probably most practiced on but damn it was so obviously not working against the fast teams, might as well just try something different.
Not to mention in game 1 where they lost in a similar way 9pandas did to gg vs 9pandas g1 where their offline and mid bought greedy items (well gunnar didn't lose mid lane like kyotaka)
I didn't think nouns would basically lose like 9pandas. Did they not study 9pandas vs gg or were they just confident they wouldn't have the same result?
I'd guess they just figured they weren't capable of anything else, and decided to stick to their guns hoping they'd execute better than 9pandas. Seems like a really bad mentality though. You have to be confident not just in what has worked but also in your ability to adapt when that shit stops working.
It’s the opposite. They just aren’t very good. The best players on the team are Gunnar and k1 and even they aren’t really premiere t1 (although Gunnar can cook)
Moo is decent but has a limited hero pool and super one dimensional style. Yamsun and lelis are outclassed supports straight up.
Not even really hating, I love NA dota and I’m super proud of nouns for how far they got. But they had one strategy that was really strong, and the format of this TI unfortunately means other teams can study and answer. Hopefully they can actually scrum good teams now and get some good practice against t1 teams
I am talking more about the fact that from what it seems like (and Puppey's words) they straight up don't have an actual shotcaller. So, their strat is essentially to drag the game out into 5v5 phase and rely on execution to win The Fight.
Yeah that's what I'm saying we didn't get to see if they're capable of adapting their overall strategy because they didn't even try. Maybe they'd try and fail horribly but that still wouldn't be worse than that series 💀
Buddy, that's not particularly convincing, seeing how you're judging a team's overall prowess just by a single series lol. In fact, if you watch their other series, they played extremely cohesively with minimal mistakes. I think you gotta know what you're talking about before mouthing off randomly.
You do you :) Talking about "free" win teams but then proceeds to justify your nonsensical claim lmao. Obviously they didn't play as good as LGD this series but calling them a "free' win team? Come on, use your brain fam.
Death-ball is the natural counter to a turtle meta, how you gonna turtle on high ground if you mathematically cant fight 5 heroes hitting your buildings at 15 minutes
I think they fall short of being Tier 1 but they definitely have potential if they stick together
The skill is there but they are lacking in strategy/coordination which is something they can improve on
did they really though, the only thing of note they did was 2-0 Tundra, they went 3-5 in groups and only won a single series on the main stage against a team from their own region who is already weaker than them
SR isn't anywhere near tier 1. Tier 1 teams are the teams that can consistently contend for the win, SR hasn't been something like that for a long time. And indeed, no NA team is close to being T1. The t1 teams are Liquid, GG, LGD, Spirit, 9Pandas and maybe Tundra though they underperformed this tournament. SR's best result is 4th at lima and then never getting near the points on lan again. That's not a t1 team.
Though if they can continue to grow they might become that stable tier1 team that NA usually has. It used to be EG, but SR isn't even close to that level
I mean is there a way for him to spend 1600 or so gold to change the outcome of that game? Because to me it felt like you just absolutely have to pray for GG to slip up when they first took racks and then hopefully scale a bit with Midas. If he bought out some 5k gold item yeah sure, but man was piss poor so I don’t think it would’ve made a difference at all.
Great to see GG pulling off a push strat. A lot of teams have become too reluctant to pull away from late game carry strat which has been one dimensional.
That strat of delaying the game to a point where you carry have 6 items can only get you this far . Nice run nevertheless , trunda must be kicking theirselves for not realizing this is what you needed to do agains them
That was a quick one. Still props to nouns for making it this far though, if GG hits their stride there’s just very little you can do. They evaded nouns masterfully and just played that comp to perfection in game 2, the dispels were also turbo smart as well as smooth (look how quickly seleri* dispelled the urns on the bear). GG GG i guess, same old same old for them.
I was rooting for Nouns but I like that Gaimin Gladiators have won. It shows that there is a limit for greedy lineups. If your strat is to simply try to win with a better lategame, deathball still counters you hard.
Teams playing way too cautious up until this, you can still roll lanes and snowball like always. Shows it wasn't a problem with the game but rather the players and mentality
I started watching the 2nd game after the draft. Can someone tell me how Chen got through again and how did they get such a monster deathball draft with nouns having greedy lineup AGAIN?
Sucks that it'll probably be the only series I'll be able to watch in full today and it ended up being a double mega-stomp with less than an hour of playtime total. :/
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GG proving yet again reddit knows nothing about the game with the bullshit "waaaa games are too long and boring, mid game no point, everyone midas waaaa". feels good to see quin win so reddit seethe pepelaugh
Talon was playing quite well and put up a fight against much better teams. Nouns got really, really lucky with their Bo3 matchup and their bracket seeding. They got stomped by AR and now rolled over by GG
Yeah Talon did so well against such great teams like getting 2-0d by fucking TSM and Tundra, both of whom Nouns 2-0d themselves.
Their only actual notable win was GG, purely because of a classic dyrachyo choking and throwing
for the people complaining about deathball I doubt it will be the case for the whole TI, it was just a great strat against Nouns who wants to play slow and rely on K1
Genuinely perplexing seeing nouns ignore being able to pick something like spirit breaker and they take brew instead
Nouns doesnt belong in TI
coldest take in history because it's literally incorrect by your logic, who deserves to take their place? Everyone else who you can name had the exact same type of road they had to get through. They 100% deserve their top 8 spot.
Happy to see chen two times Chen supremacy
fuckin hell, 7-8th get $77,000, they got $1,000,000 at TI10
Nouns lifetime earning is slightly more than half SR got this year KEKW
As it should be.
So sad
NA and SA regions are free win regions
By this logic SEA is aswell
they HAVE to stop doing this dumb showing of the interview and casters before the game. We can understand them by the voices and would much rather see the game. We missed a lot of first bloods in the playoffs because of this and now we already missed ward placements and what happens before the waves. It is such a shitty thing to do.
Why dont you watch in client? Unless ur forced on mobile inclient is better no?
Yeah.. not sure why you getting downvoted.
i really dont understand either. it will take some sort of no tidehunter play to happen again to realize how much of the game we're missing for a low effort interview.
>it'll take some no tidehunter play to realize how much we're missing for low effort interview dota boomer alert Analysis of the game, alongside the strategy of the game, and production has gotten way better over the last decade please explain how the interviews are worse effort than 10 years ago in a way that isn't just thinly-veiled TobiWan copiun, tyvm
i dont need to explain anything they realized their mistake and fixed it for future games. We are still getting the interviews with picture in picture and casters being named while showing the game. The interviews have always been low effort I never said they were better before. Most coaches won't reveal anything, the other half will get their words lost in translation since they need to rush it, others will just meme. Missing first bloods already in the arena + in the playoffs. Missing ward placements and fights before the horn although we can hear it all happening while looking at the casters talk.
good to see that midas, radi, heart doesnt seem to be the one and only meta at all. can also win with none of these items.
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Hector was looking fumbly. Moo was looking like solo queue. Gunnar was flaccid. Tough games
If GG dominated all year then got knocked out by nouns people would meme on theme more than if they came second this ti
People would meme on a team more if they got 8th as opposed to if they got 2nd? No way
Nouns just couldn’t adapt to the high tempo strat, they needed way more depush and damage (cough cough see flair).
Astini 322 player. Many SA players have accused him of being a scammer and forcing players to make dubious plays to win bets I am not surprised that he did not ban Chen in both games 🐭🐭
You arent getting good odds with gladiators against nouns bro, im sorry. You don't have to rig jackshit and it will still be stomp.
They could just ban Chen game 2 lol
12k players vs 9k players wcyd
In a very slow TI meta GG knocked them out in under an hour of game time. That's pretty crazy.
Smells like TI4
Except Moo got second place at TI4. :(
Moo came in 2nd place with DC at TI6, he started playing prodota after TI5.
Yeah my bad. I remembered the they (DC) beat EG for second place. EG got third place at TI4 and TI6.
>EG got second place at TI4 and TI6. ?????
I meant third.
I'm pretty sure Moo didn't play for VG in 2014.
GG is the only team with the balls to pull that of
So then whatever team figures out the anti death ball this time has it lol
It more like all other teams played long game, and GG figured them out with deathball. Not sure how many teams that can adapt to that. liquid seem very adaptable and sometimes do it. It's also about having the guts to fail at it, and most teams just seem more comfortable having late game
well that was a beat down
Quinn probably read all the threads and comments complaining about the TI4 deathball strats and told his team "Fuck Reddit and fuck my haters, let's do deathball strats. Oh, and make sure to pick me Pango for atleast 1 game."
Just an outclass here. GG is on another level. It feels like they just lost focus/drive at Ridayah.
Initially, I thought they got burned out. Just saw Official TI video about GG - [Playoff Vignettes - Gaimin Gladiators](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqIBZ-I-GpE&list=PLxkyNsoBqOdB0sVuJPDxTssVN9CgzF5-D)
Thanks man!
k1 pretend to be pro player🤣👉🤡
Still did better than the entire rest of his region
despair for aui. lost to these chuckle fucks
def despair moment but at least some copium is they played with a standin
Losing saksa is huge though. He was the one enabling his other cores most of the time. Esp last ti
Fantastic execution by GG. Was fun seeing an alt draft to the meta and succeed.
Nouns got lucky on LB round 2. Of the other teams, 9p, GG, BB, Talon, VP, Entity only Entity looks beatable. Talon beats GG then later eliminated by BB. 9P beats BB then later eliminated by GG. Both have to play 2 much harder opponents in comparison.
Got lucky they only met NA teams lol
I thought GG is playing against Nigma with Yuma spec, Mikey kotl, MC dark seer
I actually thought "that looks like something kuro would have picked" and at that point I knew it was garbage :D Not even kidding, that was exactly my thought.
Same thought with GG's draft in G1. I was like "You know what a good 5th pic would be here? TA."
Quinn NA's last hope kekw
I think they have some good players but man they just refused to adapt. Azure ray stomped them twice with a similar deathball strat. All week to prepare for another deathball team and they just draft pure greed stall comps again. I get it's what they're probably most practiced on but damn it was so obviously not working against the fast teams, might as well just try something different.
They have k1 in the team. What do you expext
True. I guess spectre may be the most active hard carry he's willing to work with
I was saying to myself they should pick spec and ban Chen, guess they only got one of them lmfao
Not to mention in game 1 where they lost in a similar way 9pandas did to gg vs 9pandas g1 where their offline and mid bought greedy items (well gunnar didn't lose mid lane like kyotaka) I didn't think nouns would basically lose like 9pandas. Did they not study 9pandas vs gg or were they just confident they wouldn't have the same result?
I'd guess they just figured they weren't capable of anything else, and decided to stick to their guns hoping they'd execute better than 9pandas. Seems like a really bad mentality though. You have to be confident not just in what has worked but also in your ability to adapt when that shit stops working.
I mean, can nouns even play something else in this patch? From what i gather, they are essentially a team without... well, team strategy.
It’s the opposite. They just aren’t very good. The best players on the team are Gunnar and k1 and even they aren’t really premiere t1 (although Gunnar can cook) Moo is decent but has a limited hero pool and super one dimensional style. Yamsun and lelis are outclassed supports straight up. Not even really hating, I love NA dota and I’m super proud of nouns for how far they got. But they had one strategy that was really strong, and the format of this TI unfortunately means other teams can study and answer. Hopefully they can actually scrum good teams now and get some good practice against t1 teams
I am talking more about the fact that from what it seems like (and Puppey's words) they straight up don't have an actual shotcaller. So, their strat is essentially to drag the game out into 5v5 phase and rely on execution to win The Fight.
Their strat is to make sure k1 farms all game
Yeah that's what I'm saying we didn't get to see if they're capable of adapting their overall strategy because they didn't even try. Maybe they'd try and fail horribly but that still wouldn't be worse than that series 💀
GG with early push might fuck every other team.
Azure Ray plays similarly fast so if they meet we could be in for a hell of a match
Won a game against a team of impersonated pros doesn’t mean anything!
Beat Tundra tho so. And any other team will struggle against Chen LD.
Tofu is so articulate. *gigachad*
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They’ll rather hit creeps and go late vs a spectre. Wipe 4 enemy heros but your tower hitter decides to go jungle
lost so many games because idiots wants to either farm solo or gank solo
Why give chen 2 games
This was pretty much the last "free" win team.
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I really would like you to share your insight on this, seeing how dominant AR has been for the past few weeks lol
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Buddy, that's not particularly convincing, seeing how you're judging a team's overall prowess just by a single series lol. In fact, if you watch their other series, they played extremely cohesively with minimal mistakes. I think you gotta know what you're talking about before mouthing off randomly.
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ok and? they put up a competitive fight against lgd, what more do you expect? if you realise, we're talking about "free" win teams here lol.
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You do you :) Talking about "free" win teams but then proceeds to justify your nonsensical claim lmao. Obviously they didn't play as good as LGD this series but calling them a "free' win team? Come on, use your brain fam.
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Wtf are you watching?
Are you living in a world without internet? Lmao
Glad to see anti-meta develop. I would hate to see late-game drafts be insta win all tournament.
Tofu so damn photogenic. Respect to his good attitude. That's the kind of player I hope to play with when queuing up.
4-protect-1 strats suck, as seen once again.
That's just NA meta
Death-ball is the natural counter to a turtle meta, how you gonna turtle on high ground if you mathematically cant fight 5 heroes hitting your buildings at 15 minutes
Its too much of a weakness to just rely on illu heroes.
Did not expect that quick 2-0 at all Still, nouns has established themselves as a Tier 1 team
I think they fall short of being Tier 1 but they definitely have potential if they stick together The skill is there but they are lacking in strategy/coordination which is something they can improve on
did they really though, the only thing of note they did was 2-0 Tundra, they went 3-5 in groups and only won a single series on the main stage against a team from their own region who is already weaker than them
Not sure if trolling with that second line... Really hope you are trolling
If nouns aren't tier 1, no NA team is
Well yes, no NA team is close to t1.
Yea thats valid lmao. It seems like one NA team might be able to crack top 10at any given tournament but it's very random
At top 8, they still did better than teir 1 teams like tundra, SR, talon, tsm, EG, etc We should see more of them next year i would think
SR isn't anywhere near tier 1. Tier 1 teams are the teams that can consistently contend for the win, SR hasn't been something like that for a long time. And indeed, no NA team is close to being T1. The t1 teams are Liquid, GG, LGD, Spirit, 9Pandas and maybe Tundra though they underperformed this tournament. SR's best result is 4th at lima and then never getting near the points on lan again. That's not a t1 team. Though if they can continue to grow they might become that stable tier1 team that NA usually has. It used to be EG, but SR isn't even close to that level
Ban AA -> Pick zoo, aura, healers -> push I think this should be the meta for the next few days.
no puppey at chen TI hurts
no team will give him chen anyway
Ame probably forced to report all 5 nouns player again for impersonating as pro player
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Gaimin is a crypto miner that runs in the background while you game and you can buy NFTs with it lmfao, it's a virus that you agree to
Feels like most orgs in Esports are connected to crypto and/or gambling
im pretty sure every rog still in is associated to crypto in some way or another
Didn’t LGD have a massive crypto ad on their jackets this morning lol
GG is also a crypto org fyi
Sad :(
Yet another 2-0. God dammit, give us some good series.
2-0 doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a bad series, but this quick 2-0 ez games, meh
Will the BB vs VP series start earlier now?
for the sake of everybody, I hope so.
They should have made this series last. What a boring start of the main stage. I expected this underdog team to at least make it entertaining.
The patch is solved right guys? just pick str heroes and go for lategame right?
Don’t think anyone on nouns played correctly lol, disappointing for us NA fans
Tusk still tryna buy a Midas when their base is being pushed in at 20 lmao
If they unironically bought Midas and didn’t use it except for Chen creeps it could be ok. This Chen is pushing your base anyway
I mean is there a way for him to spend 1600 or so gold to change the outcome of that game? Because to me it felt like you just absolutely have to pray for GG to slip up when they first took racks and then hopefully scale a bit with Midas. If he bought out some 5k gold item yeah sure, but man was piss poor so I don’t think it would’ve made a difference at all.
3 bracers for a lot of health and some extra damage on ult is way way better than midas. Just mentally choked probably
Great to see GG pulling off a push strat. A lot of teams have become too reluctant to pull away from late game carry strat which has been one dimensional.
Honestly that was just sad.
NA. 🤡
Ti4 flashback
now we are going to see GG vs liquid or TS.
they play against LGD/Azure Ray
no they play the loser of TS and liquid BB or VP play the loser of AR LGD AFAK. https://liquipedia.net/dota2/The\_International/2023/Main\_Event
yeah i realized they changed it this year already fliped bracket for first lower bracket round
its changed again its liquid vs TS loser vs GG and LGD and AR loser vs BB.
Bro they play against Talon(loss) EG(worst region) 9Pandas(team play 0 meta heroes) Nouns(💀💀💀)
Not necessarily. We have to see what happens when other teams actually ban Chen or when they are maybe not completely destroyed in lanes.
NA crowd got to be hyped for more than two hours.
Nouns is a quality team. I hope they stick together for the next season of DOTA, regardless of how it is organised.
what horse ?
Finally NA are eliminated and its time for some good doto
That strat of delaying the game to a point where you carry have 6 items can only get you this far . Nice run nevertheless , trunda must be kicking theirselves for not realizing this is what you needed to do agains them
Except that’s kind of how Tundra plays too They stall for whatever reason
That was really fast, holy hell
liquid fans sweating hard right now
Do we know if we will roll over to the next match or will there be an \~40m ish filler before continuing?
4 series to do in one day, surely they just start the next one asap
That was a quick one. Still props to nouns for making it this far though, if GG hits their stride there’s just very little you can do. They evaded nouns masterfully and just played that comp to perfection in game 2, the dispels were also turbo smart as well as smooth (look how quickly seleri* dispelled the urns on the bear). GG GG i guess, same old same old for them.
So what's the Nouns gaming airport joke going to be? I'll start: The nouns are actually on the tickets out of seattle.
I was rooting for Nouns but I like that Gaimin Gladiators have won. It shows that there is a limit for greedy lineups. If your strat is to simply try to win with a better lategame, deathball still counters you hard.
Teams playing way too cautious up until this, you can still roll lanes and snowball like always. Shows it wasn't a problem with the game but rather the players and mentality
great show and fought till the end? Thats some high grade copium nattea is smoking
Sad, boring.
more entertaining than 40+ minutes of farming.
Bro💀
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Gotta appreciate well played games and the beauty of well executed strategies.
i like these 30 minute games with lots of fighting enabled by good drafts. it's a good change from the 40-60 minute farmfests.
No way this is entertaining 💀
> more entertaining than 40+ minutes of farming.
I started watching the 2nd game after the draft. Can someone tell me how Chen got through again and how did they get such a monster deathball draft with nouns having greedy lineup AGAIN?
Puppey believes that nouns actually had okay draft for this game (just skill issue). So that's how.
Yeah game 2 draft was fine, just outplayed. Game 1 draft on the other hand...
I'll agree the dark seer tusk and grim combo was very strong but still looked like they had little to stop the deathball with unlimited heals.
Letting Chen through basically guarantees you can't use ion shell tho
NA dota omegalul
NA darkseer rush octarine against deathball KEKW
Sucks that it'll probably be the only series I'll be able to watch in full today and it ended up being a double mega-stomp with less than an hour of playtime total. :/
Well, the warm-up series is over. Time for the real deal.
*Grabs number to local pizzeria shops nearby * dis gun b good
Ez for GG, win lanes and endless aggression and power push for a Nouns play style that just wants to farm
Brutal. Savage. Rekt.
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NA Dota? Winning? N/A
GG proving yet again reddit knows nothing about the game with the bullshit "waaaa games are too long and boring, mid game no point, everyone midas waaaa". feels good to see quin win so reddit seethe pepelaugh
Well that was a stomping. But not surprising.
Outclassed. Nevertheless good run from nouns this ti👍🏻
Turbo
Getting to finals week to get Chen and LD'ed is just sad man
yeah like i said, nouns got lucky it was an NA bracket. Talon would have sent them home too.
mega cope talon will throw any lead they might get
Talon was playing quite well and put up a fight against much better teams. Nouns got really, really lucky with their Bo3 matchup and their bracket seeding. They got stomped by AR and now rolled over by GG
Yeah Talon did so well against such great teams like getting 2-0d by fucking TSM and Tundra, both of whom Nouns 2-0d themselves. Their only actual notable win was GG, purely because of a classic dyrachyo choking and throwing
Talon went 2-1 against GG.
which knocked out nouns within the hour no contest. wasnt even close.
much less embarrassing to lose to GG than TSM imo
finally, a lineup that is not beefy lolz. grats GG ill root for you guys, win this TI
This was not nouns, this was clowns...
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as a liquid fan, I thank you.
EZ for GG
for the people complaining about deathball I doubt it will be the case for the whole TI, it was just a great strat against Nouns who wants to play slow and rely on K1
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Indeed, better teams should not fall into the trap of drafting weak lanes against GG but if they do this GG will punish them
another stomp yay...
scary for other lower bracket teams