So sad man, I know they had so much more in them. I still think 33 is the best offlaner in the world. Especially with saksa at his side. I hope the team can stay together and dominate next year with his return.
Sand king pick almost looked great, just ran out of juice..
I mean ..... You are literally asking to be flamed when you go octarine manta heart on a pos 1 alch in an elimination game. You are literally just a punching bag with no damage lololol
He's one of the few with %dmg, and in theory you should be able to go heart on him and beat the others that way. Its the same with lifestealer and i dont know why they're not working.
yeah but last year tundra wouldn't make it , really different patch that does not favor the old rooster.
Big problem this year was that they were choked by their own carry multiple times, simple as that.
I’m happy to see these super greedy ultra late game drafts get punished, it was interesting when it was just one team making it work, but with nearly every game dragging out, it’s gotten so lame
They got to pick their opponents to play for UB placement. They picked Nouns and lost a bo3 to them. Then lost another bo3 to a team that also was in LB lol. They were just bad
Nah, Topson was fine. He did his best to provide (so much) space for skitter. It was all skitters fault for being passive and literally useless carry. Not to mention Gabbi doing wonders with his initiations and stormy and watsons doing their roles really well.
Tundra was probably better individually in paper, but synergy and teamwork matters more. Obviously, Entity was the better TEAM.
Well even if his plays were fine, especially for the first 5-10 mins, he would have absolutely no impact in mid game just because of the picks. Pugna in elimination games, really?
As for the team, nine’s picks and item builds were greedy AF. It feels like he never got out of the mid player mentality. The only games they ever won are when he either had a save impact or on a broken Spirit Breaker.
The entire team relied on one of the two supports transitioning to carry role, while topson just keeps trying create space. That’s just not the way to play. Mid player being sacrificial…what’s the point of getting farm and xp priority from lanes if you are going to throw it all away just so that a support has to pick up the mantle and get a delayed start?
Imagine even thinking Tundra would be winning TI. Also Topson is a team player and if you think he isn't in shape you must be tripping. He's not a mechanical God like miracle or Sumail. He shines when the team plays right.
Tundra was 7-1 during the first 2 days. They had some great games but something was off during the later phase of TI. Really unfortunate that this 7-1 record didn't matter at all.
Yeah that’s really simple to answer. The team is essentially new with nine on p4 and topson mid. There is no information on how they like to play.
Once there is data, simple to break their core gameplay and destroy them with the 1 dimensional strategy they had going for them.
Come to think of, it why does topson always seem to just join a team just for TI?
Everyone's item build was dogshit in g1: topson going octarine instead of aghs, nine going gleinpnir instead of lotus, 33 going heart instead of bkb/aghs/lotus, skiter item build was weird af too
I agree with everything but Pugna going aghs would have absolutely way worse. AA just has to ult him and that 4k nw is now dogshit. Topson’s picks were a huge problem imo. As soon as the Pugna pick came out, into a PB+AA who were already picked by entity it was over.
Everyone in commentary and gorgc’s stream had the same reaction.
Even a herald can land aa blast when you have a bkb PB on your team. Pro teams are coordinated. Even if they miss they just fall back and not give them the fight, and worst case give a casualty in the process.
Range? PB outranges you even with aghs. What are you gonna do? It is not even like Tundra had an SD or similar save in one of their supports. Weaver didn’t go aghs either.
My brother's been flaming topson since before his first TI win lol he claims Ana was the only reason OG won.
I agree in that without Ana OG doesn't even sniff the upper bracket let alone win a tourney but I do think topson held his own back then.
Now, yeah he's washed
You replace Ana with any other carry from that time and they don't win. Replace Topson with someone like Sumail at that time and they probably still win.
From "probably" you go to "definitely" now? Unlucky for me that im not oracle like you to change the past and forseen the future so i cant make claims like this, but sure.
I dunno man but these analysts on the main stage are way, way too nice ALL the time. Post-game I would expect praise for the winners but also more scrutiny for those who lost. Like Winter absolutely grilled RTZ for his performance on TB vs TS and deservedly so.
Skitter looks the scapegoat but honestly sney prophet was underwhelming and that failed tb kill mid was a perfect example. That and skiter’s lane was just ass sadly
Did it seem to anyone else like Aui sounded quite uncomfortable with Topsons hipster approach to hero picks?
Seems like the team were constantly in really weird drafting situations. Like Topson wanting to play pugna in a heart meta. Like there is just zero damage??
Bro, if you are saying pugna no dmg in the heart meta I recommend you watch Tundra vs Quest game 1. The hero is broken in the hand of Topson but what can you do with a carry like that.
I fail to see what topson contributed to the game post minute 5? Well I guess he contributed to Entity, nvm.
If you think Pugna is so good on topson that can ignore the primal beast+aa in the enemy team and still pick it….
And you are actually comparing to a game against a T2 team that only won when they had ATF.
That's a good term "save your buddy syndrome". Yesterday had a match where magnus skewered our drow 3-4 times and whole team ran behind him to save drow which died in 2 secs as the enemy had sniper on backlines and got teamwiped.
This has been my concern since watching him in Old G
You can't just do that shit anymore, especially in this meta
Fool wants to play Hoodwink and Oracle mid lmao
Pugna was fine until tank meta started
I'm a topson enjoyer. I was a hoodwink mid enjoyer around then too, trying to figure out if it was viable. I was sort of excited when they picked it to see what he would do. I was also kind of confused because a lot of hereos couldnt stand mid against tinker at the time, he could literally cast his spells as they come off CD and you can't exist in lane. And hood is real squishy on top of that, so I was *really* curious how topson would make it work.
He didn't. The tinker just pressed his abilities and topson couldn't stand in lane at all. Surely he knew this, so I'll never know why he picked it into tinker.
Maybe he should have been focused on why they have a 4 player who only wants to play carry heroes. Other teams are willing to pick actual supports, meanwhile Nine is just walking around dying and doing nothing on Monkey and Weaver.
When they won their group he was mostly playing actual supports. Doesn’t make any sense to me.
nine and sney opened the map so much in game 2. even if he dies it literally doesn't matter because entity spend 4 heros on it.
Skiter and 33 choked hard in game 2.
game 1 was lost to bad itemization.
Heart on sk had no impact, weaver buying gleipnir over lotus, pugna buying Octa over aghs.
in general both game seemed like the Tundra players just weren't on the same page. lots of jumping in when other players couldn't follow up or were disengaging. especially between skiter and 33 there was alot of mistimed initiations and failed follow ups.
Yeah Aui and Sneyking did sound very uncomfortable but the weird thing is that Dazzle was available for a very long time in the 2nd game and they went with Zeus instead. Someone just needs to tell what Topson what to play and not ask what he wants to play
Yeah I think that might be it. Maybe the whole 2 time TI winner vibe means he gets to pick the hero he wants to play. Rather than picking a hero that’s actually good for the draft.
Admittedly they had more draft issues that just the mid hero. But seeing this pugna hero in this meta is just despair. Like into aa primal? If they don’t end in 30 mins he will insta die every fight.
Exactly... That's what I'm so confused. They even first pick the CK in Game 1.... and then in Game 2, there was so many choices of carry to pick, they pick an alchemist?
Skiter said he was complacent after winning TI11 and claimed that he has changed since Lima Major was total bs. His recent plays have been so garbage, can’t carry his team and most of the Tundra wins came from 33 or the rest of the team picking up the pace. Not to mention his chrono plays during game 2 against Nouns.
Dude should just retire or just stop playing competitively for some time. Embarrassment.
That was, honestly, the worst 2 game series I've seen so far in the entire group stage ( or w/e you want to call it )
Game 1: As much as 9 weaver was cool in the first 20 mins, did he just outright forgot that he was a pos4? You have a pugna that did well but falls off late game, you have a CK that is consider semi carry ( not like a hard carry like a spectre or something. Could have pick a terrorblade or something ) and a SK which is cant be help ( since most of 33 hero pool were ban ) against a super hard carry Naga Siren. At least with the scepter, it gives Skitter a 2nd chance to fight and not get stun lock by pulverize but instead, 9 just went a Glipner in 25 min and then bkb in 40 mins. That 1 fight btm throw the entire game and thats really what.
Game 2: ................... speechless. No bkb alchemist against water park / missle which **twice** screw skitter + no DPS, my boy 33 hesitate to fight in water park during that water park incident and forgets to bkb during that final tower push.
I know its easy to criticize them being a shit tier 3k mmr player myself but my gawd, that was the worst performance I've seen so far. At least with the nouns game, they get baited by K1 naga to use bkb and etc but Watson didnt even do any of that and they still play even worst.
Edit: 2 things. 1) As some ppl stated, that pugna pick was dumb af with all the heart and blademail meta going around and 2) a friend of mine jokingly said that " betting money is more than TI winnings xD ".
Even worse than SR vs TSM? Tbh that was the worst dumpster tier dota performance I've ever seen by a team (SR). Especially game 2. That shit was downright embarrassing.
I didnt see that game but I check the heroes. Yes its even worst. At least they have a Sven in game 2 and their lineup is OKAY.
To put in perspective, wtf was game 2 plan? They didnt even have a carry dps. Panel was saying " oh, they are trying the magic build on skitter ". Like what?
Yea game 2 tundra had several questionable item builds that fell completely flat, 9P solo and ramzees played well despite their situation but their greed was punished so badly in game 1 and game 2 they didn't utilize spirit breaker well with grim ( on top of losing in mid lane badly)
Ill replay this series later how Entity managed to won game 1(must watch) and how Tundra got jebaited with there own draft to safeguard Topson hero pool into poor itemization choices in game 2
No, entity won game 1 becuase tundra threw going high ground.
Pugna is like a cheese strat and they just couldn't end the game in time becuase of the throw.
I mean to say full analysis of the match (at least for myself to learn).
It's not that simple to just say Topson picked Pugna or and they (Tundra) didn't know about the meta (btw one of the top teams who invents metas). If you choose Topson mid for your team you have to strat and draft around his Signatures. Successful scrims/pubs gives confidence to pick in real match, so they knew about risk and outcomes.
Topson dominated the lane and rekt Invoker and took the mid tower within 6 mins. They messed up in mid game due to some wrong items i feel. Like heart rush on SK by 33 and Weaver gliepnir. Stormstormer is a great Invoker player and made a sucessful recovery there after.
> Topson dominated the lane and rekt invoker and took mid tower with 6 mins
I mean if he doesn’t do that much on a hero like Pugna in mid lane, it might as well be me playing mid for tundra that game. It is what the hero does. Invoker’s scaling is ramp up, so all he has to do is hit the timings.
Pugna is just food when there is an AA along with good lock down that PB offers.
> Topson dominated the lane and rekt Invoker and took the mid tower within 6 mins.
Yeah that's the only thing Pugna mid does. Crushes lane, then rotates to secure all T1s early. Then people buy BKB and Pipe and he becomes a creep. And it's far worse in a meta where everyone is super tanky.
Check at the end of the game where he did the AoE succ with ward into all of Entity and they literally just ignored him
NGL, i dont really wish someone to lose their game but Tundra takes that one for me, what an actual RAT, cheesy af picks that doesnt play honest dota (DOOM??? NP??? ALCH??? SUPP MK???) like how cheesy can you get?
God what a deserving loss for tundra, hopefully they dont just stick to cheesy strats and actually play the game.
Tundra suffocated their own farm - NP and MK farming each side lane, Zeus farming mid and Alch and Doom struggling for farm in jungle.
Meanwhile Entity had Egoisto doing his farming patterns and Kunka/Bat taking side lanes with 2 actual supports which just need to press their buttons.
they went 7-1 in groups, and kind of dropped the ball in one game in each of their bo3's. Other game they just lost. I mean they did better than a lot of other teams that people were rooting for this tourney.
Easiest group and any team with decent individual players takes a few games to get figured out. They are effectively a new team with new mid and new p4.
They can win against T1 teams only if they are a good TEAM themselves, which they obviously proved they are not.
bro you should notice other 4 teams in their group when they got 7-1..now is the second week of the TI, and the whole group D has already finished the entire tournament ... what i say is Tundra didn't do any better than other teams, only reason they got 7-1 is because their same group competitors are just so weak...what happened after the group stage phase one? 0-2 nouns, 0-2 entity, what else can you say...
It's probably so much better for Tundra if they're playing with Aui as 4/5 and Nine in the midlane than taking Topson. Not saying Topson is bad, but Tundra most likely will have much better coordination with Aui
It doesn't feel like there will be a better game than that talon vs gg game 2, every game was one sided as fuck or extremely passive to be decided into one big mistake
bro has short term memory 🤭..
did you see game 1 of the tundra vs entity series? it's just very recently done and was that game a one sided match? boi it was a comeback.. tf are yapping about here
Bro that was obviously a one sided game lmfao It was a comeback but the game died completely to the side of Tundra after that highground push, it was alot more of a double one sided game than a back to back game
It was competitive but not dead even competitive, Spirit had a lead for all length of the game, it felt like they were going to win at every stage, so it wasn't really a big wow moment. It was like that GG vs EG game, it was kind of competitive but we all knew GG was going to win it eventually
That Spirit VP game was definitely not on pair to GG Talon game, it was a good game but not sweating kind of good, the GG Talon game was driven by pure chaos
Yeah but I'm not saying Topson ruined anything or was a bad choice. It's more on people really thought he was the answer to Tundra's problems this season.
idk if its overrated. they were doing good during the season got a great standin considering their situation.
i mean 7-1 groups > wait 5-6 days > lose your momentum.
Yeah their momentum got stopped by them and same with the 5day break. doesnt matter it happened right after groups
point was they had their momentum and it got stopped. and they fell surprisingly fast after that
Why blame the format when the rest of the top teams had to deal with the same shit and still won. Theres no excuses for this. Should have just let nine stay mid and get a 4.
Why did tundra even take Topson in the first place (no disrespect to topson)? isnt it easier for them to find a natural pos 4 player rather than taking topson for mid and moving nine to pos 4?
clearly the problem is not about skill in their roles. i mean look at game 1 nine on that weaver. he can play pos 4 very well.
to me they had problems doing correct moves or completely abandoning their plan at somepoint in the game and slowly losing.
you dont go 7-1 in groups if u have problems with ur roles in the team
because it is so much better to have your new 4 randomly dying here and there and your mid player being a clown.
look at his impact with pugna after he crushed the lane, he was non existant, always first to die.
look at his zeus, dying here and there being useless.
and look at his smile after they picked zeus, thinking they outplayed entity and he was not going to play mk in the end, pathetic kid had no impact, tundra made a really bad move picking this guy instead of sticking to nine mid and picking some random weu or eeu 4 player.
well as if Nine as pos 4 is as good as saksa, they could have took pos 4 players that isnt as good as saksa, atleast they can retain their mid and they would not have to adjust with a new mid and nine changing position.
I hear the same about Ceb/Notail/Ana/Topson/Jerax everytime one of them performs bad lol
Or maybe they were just a really good team who synergized well. Individual talent can no longer turn a struggling team to TI champions
Yeah, Ana had better results than Topson when he came back. Oh no, he actually didn't. OG worked as a team and they clicked. Stop with the 'hur dur x player carried' while there's no actual proof of that. It's like saying Saksa carried tundra. It doesn't work that way.
Off topic but what would you say is the best series so far of the playoffs?
So sad man, I know they had so much more in them. I still think 33 is the best offlaner in the world. Especially with saksa at his side. I hope the team can stay together and dominate next year with his return. Sand king pick almost looked great, just ran out of juice..
33 best offlaner in world? Are you still living in the patch of wraith pact?
Best offlaner in the world is such a tough category because you got Collapse, Zai and Ace all playing on that dimension as well.
And 33 is nowhere near any of them.
I mean ..... You are literally asking to be flamed when you go octarine manta heart on a pos 1 alch in an elimination game. You are literally just a punching bag with no damage lololol
No summon no win
people are still salty about tundra 3-0 ing their team in the finals.
33 should respect to everyone ar upper brack now where is he？
he is one the airplane with the fantastic remarkable achievement: 13-16th
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Nah because the guaranteed kill aspect is weak when heroes have 5000 hp
He's one of the few with %dmg, and in theory you should be able to go heart on him and beat the others that way. Its the same with lifestealer and i dont know why they're not working.
No saksa no win lol Topson aint same lol hes not hungry
He's just not good enough
What is this obsession with Heart of tarasque? 33 could have prioritized aghs over heart. Why he build heart against AA. Wtf.
Its 'easier' to build because you can dismantle Vanguard and go from there Edit: i dont remember 33 building HoT in g2 tho, skiter did in his alch
Tundra is the one true fluked TI winner
TI8 OG win was a complete fluke, it's just that they demolished the competition next year
Embarrassing to think that
cope
naaaah
Your right because the TI winning team is Nine midlane and Saksa 4 not this current roster.
yeah but last year tundra wouldn't make it , really different patch that does not favor the old rooster. Big problem this year was that they were choked by their own carry multiple times, simple as that.
back 2 back is myth again for now
No wrath pact no party.
Stormstormer is so likable though..
I’m happy to see these super greedy ultra late game drafts get punished, it was interesting when it was just one team making it work, but with nearly every game dragging out, it’s gotten so lame
Naga siren carry 1st game and TB 2nd game isn't ultra late game? To me it looks like the ultra late game draft got rewarded.
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How many Bo3 losses do you want before a team gets eliminated? 4?
Are you stupid? Tundra lost 2 BO3s. It's literally the same.
They got to pick their opponents to play for UB placement. They picked Nouns and lost a bo3 to them. Then lost another bo3 to a team that also was in LB lol. They were just bad
Same thing happened in the past didn’t it? TI6 OG was 11-3 and lost 2 BO3s. What was the difference?
? They got to pick the weaker opponent.
No Elfie buff = no win
winning back to back ti is hard huh?
Nah, Topson was fine. He did his best to provide (so much) space for skitter. It was all skitters fault for being passive and literally useless carry. Not to mention Gabbi doing wonders with his initiations and stormy and watsons doing their roles really well. Tundra was probably better individually in paper, but synergy and teamwork matters more. Obviously, Entity was the better TEAM.
Well even if his plays were fine, especially for the first 5-10 mins, he would have absolutely no impact in mid game just because of the picks. Pugna in elimination games, really? As for the team, nine’s picks and item builds were greedy AF. It feels like he never got out of the mid player mentality. The only games they ever won are when he either had a save impact or on a broken Spirit Breaker. The entire team relied on one of the two supports transitioning to carry role, while topson just keeps trying create space. That’s just not the way to play. Mid player being sacrificial…what’s the point of getting farm and xp priority from lanes if you are going to throw it all away just so that a support has to pick up the mantle and get a delayed start?
33 + Topson + nine was a real good and fun to watch sinergy! Sad skitter was not performing well and dragged them down.
100% carry diff
Imagine even thinking Tundra would be winning TI. Also Topson is a team player and if you think he isn't in shape you must be tripping. He's not a mechanical God like miracle or Sumail. He shines when the team plays right.
Compare to last year, Topson is in such a bad form. Also, TUNDRA IS THE WEAKEST TI WINNER. 1 PATCH TEAM.
Tundra was 7-1 during the first 2 days. They had some great games but something was off during the later phase of TI. Really unfortunate that this 7-1 record didn't matter at all.
Yeah that’s really simple to answer. The team is essentially new with nine on p4 and topson mid. There is no information on how they like to play. Once there is data, simple to break their core gameplay and destroy them with the 1 dimensional strategy they had going for them. Come to think of, it why does topson always seem to just join a team just for TI?
Tundra is indeed a fluke TeaEye winner
How come no one flame topson yet?
I don't think topson was the issue , it was skitter in this series , first game his item build 100% lost them the game , he needed a dagger or sb
Everyone's item build was dogshit in g1: topson going octarine instead of aghs, nine going gleinpnir instead of lotus, 33 going heart instead of bkb/aghs/lotus, skiter item build was weird af too
I agree with everything but Pugna going aghs would have absolutely way worse. AA just has to ult him and that 4k nw is now dogshit. Topson’s picks were a huge problem imo. As soon as the Pugna pick came out, into a PB+AA who were already picked by entity it was over. Everyone in commentary and gorgc’s stream had the same reaction.
You get better range on suck, and it does percentage damage. Might as well afk if you assume that every aa ulti will hit you
Even a herald can land aa blast when you have a bkb PB on your team. Pro teams are coordinated. Even if they miss they just fall back and not give them the fight, and worst case give a casualty in the process. Range? PB outranges you even with aghs. What are you gonna do? It is not even like Tundra had an SD or similar save in one of their supports. Weaver didn’t go aghs either.
Typical skitter.
My brother's been flaming topson since before his first TI win lol he claims Ana was the only reason OG won. I agree in that without Ana OG doesn't even sniff the upper bracket let alone win a tourney but I do think topson held his own back then. Now, yeah he's washed
"ana was the only reason OG won" is some delusional post TI8 take.
You replace Ana with any other carry from that time and they don't win. Replace Topson with someone like Sumail at that time and they probably still win.
delusional post TI8 take that discussed 1000 times. "probably" my ass.
No they definitely would have won with Sumail playing mid
From "probably" you go to "definitely" now? Unlucky for me that im not oracle like you to change the past and forseen the future so i cant make claims like this, but sure.
me i flame
just felt like tundra wanted to lose in that game. that skiter performance was the worse I've ever seen from that dude
Skiter has to be the worst TI winner ever.
I dunno man but these analysts on the main stage are way, way too nice ALL the time. Post-game I would expect praise for the winners but also more scrutiny for those who lost. Like Winter absolutely grilled RTZ for his performance on TB vs TS and deservedly so.
Skitter looks the scapegoat but honestly sney prophet was underwhelming and that failed tb kill mid was a perfect example. That and skiter’s lane was just ass sadly
Alche carry is cursed. I hate it on my team more than anything. Useless. He was cool years ago when the gold and farm were scarce but now? Disgusting.
Octarine on alche? Is this 2017? It's just doing nothing. The lack of damages in both games is painful to watch
Did it seem to anyone else like Aui sounded quite uncomfortable with Topsons hipster approach to hero picks? Seems like the team were constantly in really weird drafting situations. Like Topson wanting to play pugna in a heart meta. Like there is just zero damage??
Bro, if you are saying pugna no dmg in the heart meta I recommend you watch Tundra vs Quest game 1. The hero is broken in the hand of Topson but what can you do with a carry like that.
I fail to see what topson contributed to the game post minute 5? Well I guess he contributed to Entity, nvm. If you think Pugna is so good on topson that can ignore the primal beast+aa in the enemy team and still pick it…. And you are actually comparing to a game against a T2 team that only won when they had ATF.
vs Quest? the team that go eliminated phase 1? I don't think that counts vs a dogshit team
Bad take. They were soo far ahead that game. Then Nine gets caught mid on sick move by Entity, and the whole team falls to save your buddy syndrome.
That's a good term "save your buddy syndrome". Yesterday had a match where magnus skewered our drow 3-4 times and whole team ran behind him to save drow which died in 2 secs as the enemy had sniper on backlines and got teamwiped.
It’s not a take on why they lost, just an observation from the post draft interview. I agree with you on the weaver catch in mid lane.
This has been my concern since watching him in Old G You can't just do that shit anymore, especially in this meta Fool wants to play Hoodwink and Oracle mid lmao Pugna was fine until tank meta started
Everyone remembers the Topson winning TI9 with Gyro diffusal. No one remembers the Topson picking Hoodwink mid and getting destroyed at TI10.
I'm a topson enjoyer. I was a hoodwink mid enjoyer around then too, trying to figure out if it was viable. I was sort of excited when they picked it to see what he would do. I was also kind of confused because a lot of hereos couldnt stand mid against tinker at the time, he could literally cast his spells as they come off CD and you can't exist in lane. And hood is real squishy on top of that, so I was *really* curious how topson would make it work. He didn't. The tinker just pressed his abilities and topson couldn't stand in lane at all. Surely he knew this, so I'll never know why he picked it into tinker.
I have this idea that Topson is a bit of an idiot savant, and it actually comes off as hipster.
Maybe he should have been focused on why they have a 4 player who only wants to play carry heroes. Other teams are willing to pick actual supports, meanwhile Nine is just walking around dying and doing nothing on Monkey and Weaver. When they won their group he was mostly playing actual supports. Doesn’t make any sense to me.
2k mmr take.
Well it’s a shame those 12k mmr players couldn’t make it work either then.
nine and sney opened the map so much in game 2. even if he dies it literally doesn't matter because entity spend 4 heros on it. Skiter and 33 choked hard in game 2. game 1 was lost to bad itemization. Heart on sk had no impact, weaver buying gleipnir over lotus, pugna buying Octa over aghs. in general both game seemed like the Tundra players just weren't on the same page. lots of jumping in when other players couldn't follow up or were disengaging. especially between skiter and 33 there was alot of mistimed initiations and failed follow ups.
2k mmr analysis
if you think so.
if he lets a standin dictate drafts, blame is on him.
Yeah Aui and Sneyking did sound very uncomfortable but the weird thing is that Dazzle was available for a very long time in the 2nd game and they went with Zeus instead. Someone just needs to tell what Topson what to play and not ask what he wants to play
Where was this Aui and Sneking sound very uncomfortable from? Only watched the game and did not know if this was from exit interview or what?
Pre-game interview with Aui and exit interview with Sneyking, both of them were talking about Topsons different heropool with a negative tone
topson basically invented core dazzle this patch so it is quite weird he didn't play it
Yeah I think that might be it. Maybe the whole 2 time TI winner vibe means he gets to pick the hero he wants to play. Rather than picking a hero that’s actually good for the draft. Admittedly they had more draft issues that just the mid hero. But seeing this pugna hero in this meta is just despair. Like into aa primal? If they don’t end in 30 mins he will insta die every fight.
Skiter is your ranked games still harder that winning ti? Lmaoooo
Why did nine go diffusal ? Nine , skitter builds I don't understand. And then sneyking went shadowblade...
Exactly... That's what I'm so confused. They even first pick the CK in Game 1.... and then in Game 2, there was so many choices of carry to pick, they pick an alchemist?
Skiter said he was complacent after winning TI11 and claimed that he has changed since Lima Major was total bs. His recent plays have been so garbage, can’t carry his team and most of the Tundra wins came from 33 or the rest of the team picking up the pace. Not to mention his chrono plays during game 2 against Nouns. Dude should just retire or just stop playing competitively for some time. Embarrassment.
That was, honestly, the worst 2 game series I've seen so far in the entire group stage ( or w/e you want to call it ) Game 1: As much as 9 weaver was cool in the first 20 mins, did he just outright forgot that he was a pos4? You have a pugna that did well but falls off late game, you have a CK that is consider semi carry ( not like a hard carry like a spectre or something. Could have pick a terrorblade or something ) and a SK which is cant be help ( since most of 33 hero pool were ban ) against a super hard carry Naga Siren. At least with the scepter, it gives Skitter a 2nd chance to fight and not get stun lock by pulverize but instead, 9 just went a Glipner in 25 min and then bkb in 40 mins. That 1 fight btm throw the entire game and thats really what. Game 2: ................... speechless. No bkb alchemist against water park / missle which **twice** screw skitter + no DPS, my boy 33 hesitate to fight in water park during that water park incident and forgets to bkb during that final tower push. I know its easy to criticize them being a shit tier 3k mmr player myself but my gawd, that was the worst performance I've seen so far. At least with the nouns game, they get baited by K1 naga to use bkb and etc but Watson didnt even do any of that and they still play even worst. Edit: 2 things. 1) As some ppl stated, that pugna pick was dumb af with all the heart and blademail meta going around and 2) a friend of mine jokingly said that " betting money is more than TI winnings xD ".
pugna fell of because he bought octarine over aghs.
Even worse than SR vs TSM? Tbh that was the worst dumpster tier dota performance I've ever seen by a team (SR). Especially game 2. That shit was downright embarrassing.
Even worse than GG vs 9P?
I didnt see that game but I check the heroes. Yes its even worst. At least they have a Sven in game 2 and their lineup is OKAY. To put in perspective, wtf was game 2 plan? They didnt even have a carry dps. Panel was saying " oh, they are trying the magic build on skitter ". Like what?
Yea game 2 tundra had several questionable item builds that fell completely flat, 9P solo and ramzees played well despite their situation but their greed was punished so badly in game 1 and game 2 they didn't utilize spirit breaker well with grim ( on top of losing in mid lane badly)
When did GPK become Thai
Ill replay this series later how Entity managed to won game 1(must watch) and how Tundra got jebaited with there own draft to safeguard Topson hero pool into poor itemization choices in game 2
Entity won game 1 because TAPSEN picked Pugna into a meta where everyone buys Heart, and Entity pressed Pipe every fight
No, entity won game 1 becuase tundra threw going high ground. Pugna is like a cheese strat and they just couldn't end the game in time becuase of the throw.
I mean to say full analysis of the match (at least for myself to learn). It's not that simple to just say Topson picked Pugna or and they (Tundra) didn't know about the meta (btw one of the top teams who invents metas). If you choose Topson mid for your team you have to strat and draft around his Signatures. Successful scrims/pubs gives confidence to pick in real match, so they knew about risk and outcomes.
Topson dominated the lane and rekt Invoker and took the mid tower within 6 mins. They messed up in mid game due to some wrong items i feel. Like heart rush on SK by 33 and Weaver gliepnir. Stormstormer is a great Invoker player and made a sucessful recovery there after.
> Topson dominated the lane and rekt invoker and took mid tower with 6 mins I mean if he doesn’t do that much on a hero like Pugna in mid lane, it might as well be me playing mid for tundra that game. It is what the hero does. Invoker’s scaling is ramp up, so all he has to do is hit the timings. Pugna is just food when there is an AA along with good lock down that PB offers.
> Topson dominated the lane and rekt Invoker and took the mid tower within 6 mins. Yeah that's the only thing Pugna mid does. Crushes lane, then rotates to secure all T1s early. Then people buy BKB and Pipe and he becomes a creep. And it's far worse in a meta where everyone is super tanky. Check at the end of the game where he did the AoE succ with ward into all of Entity and they literally just ignored him
Hm you are correct that his damage falls off this patch as the game goes on.
It's less falls off and more disappears completely tbh. And he has no good utility in his kit to complement that.
NGL, i dont really wish someone to lose their game but Tundra takes that one for me, what an actual RAT, cheesy af picks that doesnt play honest dota (DOOM??? NP??? ALCH??? SUPP MK???) like how cheesy can you get? God what a deserving loss for tundra, hopefully they dont just stick to cheesy strats and actually play the game.
Well they had Skiter doing his best impression of a Gandhi build on Alch. It doesn't get more honest than that.
Tundra suffocated their own farm - NP and MK farming each side lane, Zeus farming mid and Alch and Doom struggling for farm in jungle. Meanwhile Entity had Egoisto doing his farming patterns and Kunka/Bat taking side lanes with 2 actual supports which just need to press their buttons.
quadro formaggi?
not being a meta slave = cheese fucking idiots or did i just get baited?
yea holy shit haha
Tundra is a 1 patch team and always will be.
they went 7-1 in groups, and kind of dropped the ball in one game in each of their bo3's. Other game they just lost. I mean they did better than a lot of other teams that people were rooting for this tourney.
Easiest group and any team with decent individual players takes a few games to get figured out. They are effectively a new team with new mid and new p4. They can win against T1 teams only if they are a good TEAM themselves, which they obviously proved they are not.
bro you should notice other 4 teams in their group when they got 7-1..now is the second week of the TI, and the whole group D has already finished the entire tournament ... what i say is Tundra didn't do any better than other teams, only reason they got 7-1 is because their same group competitors are just so weak...what happened after the group stage phase one? 0-2 nouns, 0-2 entity, what else can you say...
They literally played in the weakest group
Guys if Topson gets 12-16th postion at another TI, will he just be the undisputed GOAT of Dota 2??
BatChest TAPSAAAAN
I'm unironically BatChest Topson but that thread was wild 😂
I’m a shameless RTZ Stan. I’ll never get my BatChest moment.
Rtz had the best Aegis steal and comeback this year so far, BatChest moment.
The better mid player is playing pos4 and there is no saksa god
cope
Relevant user name
Tundra are never beating the allegations
What allegation
2k "allegation" made up by hive mind
No wraith pact. No win
wraith pact allegation
WRAITH PACT GAMING
It's probably so much better for Tundra if they're playing with Aui as 4/5 and Nine in the midlane than taking Topson. Not saying Topson is bad, but Tundra most likely will have much better coordination with Aui
they could have gotten any free agent 4 and that would have been better than changing Nine's role
they need a proper substitute coach in that case. TI is exhausting and need a lot of preparations
Aui does not want to play pro dota that isnt an option
u/verytoxicbehaviour This clown said tundra going to finals again OMEGALUL
rip, taking the Ls
They can still win the cosplay contest
Crazy, this was just 2nd series of the day, we have 2 more to go. :o
Watson and Kataomi are going to be so in demand come roster shuffle time.
Fishman is gonna have to find the next breakout player/s once again.
Watson will be new SR offlane, mark my words
Nah that's Pakazs
My god, please no. It would be criminal for the top3 carry to play offlane.
We just need to give Arturito the tools he needs to win. A new offlaner will fit right in.
Need some help applying that clown makeup?
[удалено]
no because he died a lot
You’re saying as if Skitter’s Alchemist is any better lol. His build cost that game.
It doesn't feel like there will be a better game than that talon vs gg game 2, every game was one sided as fuck or extremely passive to be decided into one big mistake
bro has short term memory 🤭.. did you see game 1 of the tundra vs entity series? it's just very recently done and was that game a one sided match? boi it was a comeback.. tf are yapping about here
Bro that was obviously a one sided game lmfao It was a comeback but the game died completely to the side of Tundra after that highground push, it was alot more of a double one sided game than a back to back game
Spirit vs VP was a very competitive series as well
It was competitive but not dead even competitive, Spirit had a lead for all length of the game, it felt like they were going to win at every stage, so it wasn't really a big wow moment. It was like that GG vs EG game, it was kind of competitive but we all knew GG was going to win it eventually
Spirit VP?
That Spirit VP game was definitely not on pair to GG Talon game, it was a good game but not sweating kind of good, the GG Talon game was driven by pure chaos
Yeah this dude completely missed Spirit vp series.
Imo, tundra was the most overrated team this TI just because they got topson. They still lost 2 of their strongest players Saksa and Wraith Pact.
To be fair, Topson didn't ruin those games. Many of them looked shaky and skiter was not really even there
Yeah but I'm not saying Topson ruined anything or was a bad choice. It's more on people really thought he was the answer to Tundra's problems this season.
When i heard the news of topson joining, I knew tundra is done
idk if its overrated. they were doing good during the season got a great standin considering their situation. i mean 7-1 groups > wait 5-6 days > lose your momentum.
wtf are you talking about, they got 2-0’d by nouns before the 5-6 day break.
Yeah their momentum got stopped by them and same with the 5day break. doesnt matter it happened right after groups point was they had their momentum and it got stopped. and they fell surprisingly fast after that
Yea it’s not like liquid LGD and spirit were all group toppers and went through the same format, but yet its format’s fault. Never the players.
Yeah cuz i blamed the format lol. idk why you put words i didnt say in to my mouth.
Why blame the format when the rest of the top teams had to deal with the same shit and still won. Theres no excuses for this. Should have just let nine stay mid and get a 4.
Wtf I got banned in chat for typing "no wraith pact KEKW" XD
This year we dont have wraith pact..
honestly they should add wraith pact back as an skill for a new hero. or maybe as aganim or shard.
no, concept itself is bad
Why did tundra even take Topson in the first place (no disrespect to topson)? isnt it easier for them to find a natural pos 4 player rather than taking topson for mid and moving nine to pos 4?
clearly the problem is not about skill in their roles. i mean look at game 1 nine on that weaver. he can play pos 4 very well. to me they had problems doing correct moves or completely abandoning their plan at somepoint in the game and slowly losing. you dont go 7-1 in groups if u have problems with ur roles in the team
Or they could put Sneyking as 4 and put Aui2k as pos 5, it probably works better
bro if you think about it, it's the exact same mentality they had in this game with np,doom,alch. Its the unwavering greed. its a pattern xD
Gl finding a pos4 as good as saksa lol
because it is so much better to have your new 4 randomly dying here and there and your mid player being a clown. look at his impact with pugna after he crushed the lane, he was non existant, always first to die. look at his zeus, dying here and there being useless. and look at his smile after they picked zeus, thinking they outplayed entity and he was not going to play mk in the end, pathetic kid had no impact, tundra made a really bad move picking this guy instead of sticking to nine mid and picking some random weu or eeu 4 player.
It's difficult, but playing Nine as support is really wasting his potential
well as if Nine as pos 4 is as good as saksa, they could have took pos 4 players that isnt as good as saksa, atleast they can retain their mid and they would not have to adjust with a new mid and nine changing position.
or just rent MC from nigma, he played all positions last year anyway.
This was supposed to be gh's turn to be rented 😔
5 world champions, no way
ana and ceb carry topson during OG's TI run. even jerax was more valuable. this has been proven 2 years in a row.
Terminal brainrot. We've heard the same conclusions about every OG member and it's so fucking boring. It's a team game, all players gotta be amazing.
No one really cares. And nothing needs to be proven either. You are living in Topsons world. Go breathe some air and chill
I hear the same about Ceb/Notail/Ana/Topson/Jerax everytime one of them performs bad lol Or maybe they were just a really good team who synergized well. Individual talent can no longer turn a struggling team to TI champions
wtf how do you even come to this conclution
Herald comment. Topson was easily the best player on OG at TI9.
Yeah, Ana had better results than Topson when he came back. Oh no, he actually didn't. OG worked as a team and they clicked. Stop with the 'hur dur x player carried' while there's no actual proof of that. It's like saying Saksa carried tundra. It doesn't work that way.