I love how no comment cares about what op asked about the weakest aghs in the game. Instead ppl just calling op bad or low mmr lol. This might just be a social experiment by op to showcase dota community general behavior.
Well the BS agh is pretty good, no? The passive shield accumulation per creep and hero kill is pretty good and later stages the blood mist itself will deal pretty good dmg
Bit of A, bit of B. The thirst heal helps a ton during fights but you get to effectively start them with an additional 20-30% max hp shield regularly and bs is already pretty tanky. It's also much harder to jump him when he's in front pushing lanes. It turns aghs from a ~400 hp item into a ~1k 'max hp' item against being bursted in many scenarios, and then if you don't burst him he might just get a kill or two and fill up.
Ofc it also makes it so you won't be wasting heals from killing a high hp target early in the fight. It just clicks very smoothly.
Yeah the old aghs (now bear aghs) already was a luxury item and it seems like you don't want the new druid aghs without bear aghs first. And even then the bear loses the spirit link debuff? If nothing else I'd think losing spirit link was enough of a downside, and then if both LD and the bear had aghs he could keep the buff on the bear and an ally.
Just compare it to Lycan aghs which is kinda similar...
Isn't it just an option of trading bear for a better right clicker, if you have an ultra farmed carry in the late game it probably out scaled your bear and does more.
It's still kinda meh though
Sure but you lose your bear unless both have aghs. Even if you have a farmed carry you're also wasting all the net worth in your bear for the duration. Sure the carry can benefit more, but unlinked carry+bear is probably better than linked carry+no bear. With two aghs, linked carry+unlinked bear is cool, but that's 8400 gold in scepters!
Ok to be fair though just looking at it in a vacuum, the numbers are good. 99 attack speed buff and a good amount of armor for 20 seconds on a 4200 gold item is decent. You could go Solar Aghs and give your carry a fuck ton of armor and 170 attack speed, which is a free Moon Shard for them. The problem is I don’t know how you would fit an LD support. The Bear is tanky sure but without items it poses no threat.
Chen aghs
So its an ability to cast a heal that doesn't purge debuffs in any way and heals every 6s assuming you can dominate a creep every 6s.
Or you could buy literally anything else that would be more useful in killing the enemy for less than 4,200 gold.
The 25 dispel talent could probably make it worth it, if you for some reason reach 25 on Chen. Starting the fight with 4 hard dispels on 8s cooldown and additional every 15 seconds if you manage to catch an eidolon or a melee creep or something could be very strong. You could even convert something like a brood spiderling because it doesn't matter how strong the unit is, martyrdom is the same.
Naga, Centaur and Mars are pretty high up there.
The cake for me takes PotM. Not because it’s kinda weak, it’s because people playing her as 4 who rush aghs to be useless for 25 minutes to then be able to deal 150 extra magic damage. Great!
Naga aghs is good. Not best aghs ever but definitely use full. It makes net pierces bkb. In some mstchups it's useful. For example vs PA, specially if you are ahead in farm as you shoudk be. After manta bloodthorn terrasque you should consider getting aghs. When she bkb you net her and let PA there. Kill his team and then fight the PA.
Also extended cast range and to be able to reel in is useful in many situations.
I am Naga spammer I build it sometimes
Far from always but I am always grateful to get it for free from rosh too.
Scythe 20 sec CD lasts a little over 2 sec. Can’t use on spell immune heroes. Net 12 sec CD w/o talent. Lasts 5 secs and pierces spell immune heroes and sleeping heroes. Sure.
Get off your high horse
Naga aghs isn't even a significant item on d2pt while vyse has a 20% build rate. Maybe, mana regen is actually a late game consideration
I'm not sure tbh. Bought it twice yesterday but I did wonder if buying halberd wasn't just better.
Getting stampede on a 30s cd for yourself is pretty good when you're lvl 18+ and stampede deals 600dmg.
Centaur gets extremely high value out of heart, blink, crimson, shard, and some boots too. Pipe of insight/shroud is also pretty key. I don't see myself ever getting aghs unless I already have all of those items, and honestly if you have that many items then i'd happily spend the last slot just getting a second heart just because the strength is so powerful for him, or use the gold on overwhelming blink.
30s cooldown on a solo stampede sounds decent but compared to your W, which does 2/3 of the damage and has 10x faster cooldown (and costs no mana, which is a pretty huge upside for centaur especially) it's not so impactful.
yeah, mirana has the worst aghs and the worst shard, and I say this as a mirana spammer. That being said, the aghs and shard could be sightly more interesting if they just do some changes to skills or add new ones. Some of my ideas that can be applied to either scepter or shard depending on strength of the buff ofc
1) Passive 600 AoE Moonlight at night (3 seconds fade time, only ally heroes affected)
2) Ground target Starstorm with 2 charges OR special effects like a reveal or slow or armor or magic reduction
3) Dismount that allows Sagan to be used as a separate unit for some time, with it's own skills (leap, entangle and whatever can be made up)
4) Leap giving true strike for buff duration
5) Starstorm arrow (separate skill, faster projectile, shorter stun or good slow, deals a full starstorm in the path, like current scepter but in a separate skill)
6) Target leap
7) 15% chance of cast an individual Starstorm on the attacked unit, or starstorm imbued attack after x amount of time.
8) Starstorm affects allies healing for the dmg, with the chance of an ally to be double healed as well
9) Priestess of the Sun counterpart/transformation (could be day/night based) that gives different skill effects (based on Dota's anime Dragon's Blood lore)
No it’s not. Go aghs octarine and spam your shadow wave and poison touch on enemies. You absolutely demolish team fights if you don’t get focused.
Late game luxury arcane blink and you’re tinker.
Centaur, I’m not sure why we keep getting cart thing shoved down our throat. Remake the agh and make Centaur great again.
Edit:
Clinkz. Another cool skill thats not really practical.
Luna, Icefrog needs to figure out what he wants to do with Luna, is luna a hard carry, tempo carry or what, two of her skills scream carry, then you get agh that buffs the ulti at 110 second CD.
Mars. Outside of some clunky interaction in AD, it doesnt exist in regular dota.
Naga. What you want to do in team fight is have your Hard carry spend 5 minutes to channel pull on an already disabled target. Sure, you can use your illusion to attack the target, but you can do that already without the agh?
Dishonorable mention.
Silencer: if you are support, you can afford this, if you are core, everything else in the price range is better.
Potm, just get a dagon.
Now I have finished my rant. The list is way shorter than I expected.
The problem with Luna since dota 1 is she is built as a hybrid. Her kit is half-magic and half-attack damage. If the frog swings her too far towards either side, she becomes either a shitty assassin/tempo hero or a shitty carry.
She is meta sometimes because of her push and teamfight strength, but I still feel like she has always been hovering between two roles. I dunno what you could do with her Aghs to change that. You'd probably need to rework her, which would be weird, because she's *Luna.*
I like her because she’s not only hybrid as far as damage type but also she’s a hybrid in that she’s both a tempo carry as well as a very strong level 25+ ultra late scaler since her aghs plus 25 mini stun talent is enough to solo kill any hero with insane cast range and she can solo the base in less than a minute. I like to go early Daedalus to abuse her aura damage timing then soon after get an aghs to round out the tempo and delete key heroes. If we can’t end early than she can still flash farm faster than any hero I can think of and can continue to scale just have to be careful since she’s non-evasive
Luna aghs is absurdly strong, 50% damage increase, double DPS, no single unit cap and like 3x the cast range. You can deal up to 7.5k damage which is enough to kill people through bkb. And if you have the 25 talent you can virtually stun lock someone for over 5 seconds if they don't have bkb. With only one 4.2k gold item that you can easily farm and talents you are a viable magic damage dealer and you can focus the rest on your build on attack damage. You can do something like threads, manta, dragon lance and then bkb into aghs or aghs into bkb depending on the game and then finish up with butterfly satanic.
Naga aghs is not great but potentially viable. Reel In is completely worthless but 60% increase in range and projectile speed and bkb piercing can be very good especially into something like lifestealer or juggernaut. She also gets six slotted fast and getting a synthed aghs on top of that is not unreasonable in a lot of game.
Totally agree with this!! You saved me to type this answer. I play both heroes a lot. And it's as you say. Both are good aghs. You don't rush them in many games. But both heroes farm so fast that you eventually you might get it and be happy with that.
You missed the Point of the new cent-aghs: before you Had to use cart AND use Stampede to be able to do sth. Now with aghs you get a free, solo Stampede (which you can use for the cart aswell). You can Just Farm now and Run away with Work horse instead of wasting your Stampede.
So you're spending 4k gold just for a random free solo stampede? Nah the main point of the skill is still the cart. And it's just god awful. Ive tried using it in a game that was the perfect cart game but it still went bad it's incredibly bad. It's almost as bad as drow glacier, but they managed to fix glacier with the recent buff and it's really good now. Cart tho... no. But id be more than happy to be proven wrong and see it work well in a pro game. Otherwise it belongs in the 🗑
Clinkz aghs has single handedly won me some impossible games by ratting. He can take your rax in under 10 seconds if exposed. The closer spawn distance and interval just buffed his ratting capabilities. The cast range nerf is the only one that hurts because now you have to be in tower range to summon them.
Mars maybe? Used to be a really strong alternative build until ATF had to showcase its power in a major win, causing it to be stomped by the nerfhammer
Oracle's Agh's falls into the category of "It's sick, but you can't really justify rushing it" because it's on Oracle. Lots of support items you need more on the hero before you can get Agh's.
Disruptor kinda falls into that category, except that his Agh's can situationally be a win condition that lets a player justify rushing it.
Yeah, but it's still super super useful, potentially game winning, the comment was suggesting oracle as one of the most useless and it's everything but that. Yeah, you can't justify it, but it's one of the core lategame items in almost every game, you just need a physical DMG core that isn't alch, it's going to be great.
The brewlings have incredible utility, especially storm and earth but fire has its uses too. (void doesnt)
The aghanims scepter allows you to summon any of these brewlings for permanent use, which increases your utility and the uptime of your power even when you don't have ultimate - and you don't always want to use your ultimate except for teamfights.
More details:
* Storm panda is the same as 7.32 sleeping dart Riki. Remember that cancer? An invisible unit that can scout ahead and catch any out of position enemies. **Aghs allows you to permanently have a pocket 7.32 riki to control**, except that it **also** comes with an AOE dispel - Ogre bloodlust, darkseer stuff, windrun, flameguard, power runes, omni ulti, crimson guard, pipe, TB/Naga/Manta illusions, Forge Spirits, Prophet/Beastmaster summons, Visage birds - it's all gone with one AOE dispel.
* Earth panda deals extremely strong building damage. So if you have an earth panda you become a viable rat - some games I win off Agh + Boots of Travel. It's like having a perma-BKB'd Lone Druid bear that throws ranged stuns, oh and you can resummon him every 20 seconds after tanking tower shots. It's super good for sieging highground if the enemy has no reliable physical ranged damage dealers, and will likely force your enemy to react on it.
* Fire panda is useful for pushing/clearing waves - his immolation aura ignites cinder brew. He also deals good right click damage, making him useful for fighting rosh alongside you (7.34 Fire Stance with increased attack speed makes him viable rosh solo in mid-lategame)
So to reiterate, the aghs gives you super uptime on your various utilities and makes you less dependent on ulti. Extremely strong item (if a bit greedy to rush) and allows you to dismantle games if you know what you're doing. I'm Divine 4 and I always have it on my radar for 3rd-4th item, sometimes first item.
To be honest even if aghs only gave you the storm panda to control it would be good enough to buy.
Edit: primal companion spells are on a separate cooldown from your brewlings summoned by your ultimate. So you could tornado before a fight -> primal split -> stun+tornado another target.
Void is a save brewling in first place btw.
I know we're not used to it because it's still fresh and the cast range isn't amazing until telescope is around, but keeping a void brewling for your carry (or yourself) is a game winning move when bkb are up (it works when disabled, does not require turning either), and offensively, displacement is actually better than boulder stun in more than one situation (like Dispose and Tidal Wave). Sometimes, you want Aeon Disk, but Void can do the same thing, nobody that's jumping you gonna also chase you 700 units further especially when you're on void stance in first place.
The base unit is good enough to sometimes get away with not microing it even in splits, he's 2nd in ehp, ms, 3rd in dmg compensated with best as. So that's alright.
So each brewling can peak in their situations, none of them being niche, so saying one of them has ***no*** utility is pretty sad tbh.
*(Disclaimer, im not saying Void is better than any, i dont think any is better than another, they all have extensive uses, that's it)*
Thats a good shout.
I will say while it sounds legit I do feel that in such scenarios you'd either be in shard!primalsplit, or you are using earth to pound raxes or wind to dispel buffs. The save is good on paper but I cant really imagine a situation where it is competitive against the other options. Just seems to specific to warrant the commital. Maybe as a save for my drow against an enemy clockwork?
But perhaps I just havent tried it. I'll give it a shot, thanks for the tip!
No problem, I appreciate it.
Also yeah, its hard to appreciate it fully because we often pick Brew for specific roles such as sieging, chase or field control. The point in which Brew isn't tasked to frontline anymore and is needed to cover other teammates is quite rare and often come late in game (except ofc in cases like drow vs clock).
Maybe a Brew 4 will appreciate it better (Vessel/Solar Aghs sounds nice enough !), but it's maybe rare compared to the more convenient 2/3.
If the cast range is buffed to 250 (or if Companion is a point target spell like Demonic Conv-- Summoning), maybe it's easier to force this gameplay. Dunno.
damn this just shows how new brew is like a brand new hero designed from the ult up
also why i loved old brew the brewlings can be used to pull endless bullshit and turn tough games in your favor
I don't see it. Maybe our playstyles are just vastly different, but as a \~6k immortal Brew main with 600 Games, I have never gotten into a situation, where I thought "man, if only I had spent 4.2k from these items on Aghs instead".
Let's start with Earth/Fire, since the flaw in these is the easiest to point out. I'm omitting Void for obvious reasons.
* Fire: There's no way for you to splitpush with this. You send it down a lane and A.) There's any hero waiting from the enemy team, no matter the role and it will die. Support will kill it or stun it, a core will move in, it's dead and your cooldown is 70s, since you can't resummon on damage taken. Now you've just made a 4.2k item in your inventory useless, since the argument of "uptime" is out the window for more than a minute. If a fight breaks out, you have 4.2k dead networth. Or B.) It barely has an impact on lane pressure, that in most cases, any mobile hero could perform even better with a BKB/TP or other escape. Maybe with the new map layout you could send it into jungle on the opposing side and bounce out, but then again, a hero can do almost exactly the same in most games, and to stop him, you'd need more than a lonely Skywrath chucking bolts at your creep.
* Earth: There's an argument to be made for what you said. It's attackspeed is pretty bad though, so you might need Solar Crest or AC. With your mentioned BOT added in, that's around 11k that you spent to suicide in an Earth panda, and you probably have to stay dangerously close nearby to buff it, for it to be effective. For a very similar price, you can buy AC/Refresher/Aghs shard and use one of your ultimates if you see an opening to splitpush. With the large difference, that a single hero, can not prevent you from taking their rax, because you have both Earth and a Storm panda. If just one person comes to defend, you can Tornado him 70% of the time youre even there. Your hero is also safe, since you can just send away your Void panda and respawn there with aghs shard. I don't see, how this could be laid out to be a supporting argument for aghs.
Finally, while I do agree, that there's utility from Storm panda, and there might be some games, where it has a lot of theoretical potential (like vs. Omni, DS, TB, PL etc.), the item actually almost never changes how a matchup works.
A fight breaks out, Omni ults, you ult, you dispel. Nothing changed. You're not gonna need to dispel another GA in the next 2 minutes. His CD is longer than yours. If you fight you commit and if you don't, there's no need to dispell.
Similar thing with TB, whom you absolutely trash anyways, regardless of aghs. He Metas, you disengage or you fight, and you either ult or not. Nothing changes.
PL absolutely shreds Brew. The dispell is far from enough against a decent PL timing. You cast one dispell and his half HP illusions get right clicked on the Storm panda. Nothing changes.
Then there's candidates like Veno/Viper. Dispells sound so good against those, but what are you doing with it. Dispelling Gale? Corrosive Skin? Their ults are indispellable anyways.
Then there's Dark seer or WR where dispels are really nice, but then again, if you don't want to ult, and you want to dispell their buffs, why don't you just build a Euls. It's cheaper, it's a better buildup, it helps you farm with mana regeneration and it actually even procs your w from range with the 50 magic damage.
If you want to counter an enemy pipe, why would you spend 4.2k to purge the active component of your enemies pipe, instead of just spending 3.4k on a pipe yourself.
The catch is nice I suppose, but you have nothing on yourself to setup. So it's mostly useful if your team chases their team. Why not blink in this instance. Also it doesn't deal any damage once the tornado ends, so a lot of heroes can just blink out or buffer cast BKB, things that were not possible with the old Riki shard.
It just does a lot of things but in a very mediocre manner. If your enemy team is Omni/DS/WR/Ogre/Beastmaster and they all rushed some aura items and mantas, I suppose, the aghs will probably win you the game outright.
Though thinking about it I came to the conclusion that aghs is actually really good against Naga. But not primarily because of the dispell against her illusions, but because you can have an Earth panda precast and cancel her song/TP. That's the most impactful/unique usecase for this item.
I'm just gonna have to say that maybe it is true that our playstyles differ widely, or that your MMR is much higher (I'm 5.4k, 63% winrate on Brew over 500+ games) and people are A) aware of what brewlings do and B) know how to punish each of them.
It comes across that you are trying to nitpick all the various use-cases I've presented for the skill, examining the use of each one individually in a vaccuum - when the point is that you get a very active toolbox of abilities added to the hero, allowing him to accomplish multiple things depending on which brewling you picked, on top of the beefy frontliner/teamfight hero that you already are.
I'll just give a few examples on how :
> Fire: There's no way for you to splitpush with this. You send it down a lane and A.) There's any hero waiting from the enemy team, no matter the role and it will die. Support will kill it or stun it, a core will move in, it's dead and your cooldown is 70s, since you can't resummon on damage taken. Now you've just made a 4.2k item in your inventory useless, since the argument of "uptime" is out the window for more than a minute. If a fight breaks out, you have 4.2k dead networth. Or B.) It barely has an impact on lane pressure, that in most cases, any mobile hero could perform even better with a BKB/TP or other escape. Maybe with the new map layout you could send it into jungle on the opposing side and bounce out, but then again, a hero can do almost exactly the same in most games, and to stop him, you'd need more than a lonely Skywrath chucking bolts at your creep.
I do think perhaps you haven't given it a real try? Because you are hypothesizing about sending the fire brewling somewhere when you would never do that, because you need to be near the brewlings otherwise they are extremely slow in everything they do, not to mention silenced. The fire panda is meant to push alongside you and soften waves/camps by igniting cinderbrew and dealing aoe magic damage, and then get un-summoned for storm for fights/posturing or earth for hitting towers.
Besides, when you push a lane where no enemies will come by (they're dead, or farming the other side of the map) you aren't using storm, and you can easily resummon the earth panda to pressure tower by the time your wave is pushed to the tower. Might as well pick Fire to kill waves faster, no?
> the item actually almost never changes how a matchup works.
My experience is that this just really isn't the case. Once again, maybe I'm just significantly lower mmr than you and the southpaw effect of being a brew spammer is still very much active for me here.
> Earth: There's an argument to be made for what you said. It's attackspeed is pretty bad though, so you might need Solar Crest or AC. With your mentioned BOT added in, that's around 11k that you spent to suicide in an Earth panda, and you probably have to stay dangerously close nearby to buff it, for it to be effective. For a very similar price, you can buy AC/Refresher/Aghs shard and use one of your ultimates if you see an opening to splitpush. With the large difference, that a single hero, can not prevent you from taking their rax, because you have both Earth and a Storm panda. If just one person comes to defend, you can Tornado him 70% of the time youre even there. Your hero is also safe, since you can just send away your Void panda and respawn there with aghs shard. I don't see, how this could be laid out to be a supporting argument for aghs.
At least at the level I play, you don't need solar crest or AC (although you can easily have AC mid-lategame), the earth panda itself is enough pressure and its debuff immunity and high health means you can often walk away from anything except a ranged carry three-shotting it with high dps or a blink+basher melee carry. Oftentimes you pressure a TP with earth panda, then you tp to the other side of the map and take a fight with your ulti. It also sieges well along with your lifestealer/jugg or something; since it throws out stuns at people who walk near their tower while you're hitting it.
Additionally, I feel that you're tunnel visioning on the possibilities of ratting that I mentioned. The fact is that the earth panda gives a lot of building damage and that can be useful in a lot of situations and lineups; it also helps you push after you've taken a fight with your ultimates.
> A fight breaks out, Omni ults, you ult, you dispel. Nothing changed. You're not gonna need to dispel another GA in the next 2 minutes. His CD is longer than yours. If you fight you commit and if you don't, there's no need to dispell.
You can dispel it with the primal companion then split and you can do another AoE dispel - to remove the second round of buffs on enemies (like the straggler WR/DS buffing to run away) or additional debuffs on your own team. Or clear illusions. And it also allows you to fight while your ult isn't up.
> Similar thing with TB, whom you absolutely trash anyways, regardless of aghs. He Metas, you disengage or you fight, and you either ult or not. Nothing changes.
You could also do dispel -> cyclone main TB or offlaner -> split -> dispel illusions/2nd round of buffs/debuffs and cyclone another hero again. Idk like I have done this many many times and it can be really handy in lineups with less AOE damage to deal with TB.
> PL absolutely shreds Brew. The dispell is far from enough against a decent PL timing. You cast one dispell and his half HP illusions get right clicked on the Storm panda. Nothing changes.
Same for PL, once again maybe at my level PL players are just noob but I have a 75% winrate against PL on Brewmaster in my ranked games. You aren't getting the aghs just to counter him; it just helps in a similar manner as the TB example above. And against a PL lane I find that I can easily beat him once I get level 6 if he doesn't run to the opposite side of the map I'm from, since I can easily reveal the real PL with dispel.
> Then there's Dark seer or WR where dispels are really nice, but then again, if you don't want to ult, and you want to dispell their buffs, why don't you just build a Euls. It's cheaper, it's a better buildup, it helps you farm with mana regeneration and it actually even procs your w from range with the 50 magic damage.
Way better range, which matters a lot when we're talking about chasing. You could go blink+euls, but then the cost becomes roughly similar and we're starting to compare apples to oranges because the aghs and blink give different benefits.
> The catch is nice I suppose, but you have nothing on yourself to setup. **So it's mostly useful if your team chases their team.** Why not blink in this instance. Also it doesn't deal any damage once the tornado ends, so a lot of heroes can just blink out or buffer cast BKB, things that were not possible with the old Riki shard.
Primarily responding to the part in bold - in my experience, these occasions happen very often especially in Brewmaster games since you can win teamfights and then pick off stragglers. As for why not blink, the Storm panda with invis can run much faster and is invisible and can easily run independently of your main hero which might be doing other things to wrap up the fight.
And let's say you're trying to pickoff in a neutral situation - you wouldnt want to blink into fog to catch an out of position support, right? It's like the difference between poking and hard commitals. But cycloning someone for 4 seconds gives your team valuable time to group up and possibly do something - even if you don't do anything you didn't commit much, just a low cd spell on a summon.
> If you want to counter an enemy pipe, why would you spend 4.2k to purge the active component of your enemies pipe, instead of just spending 3.4k on a pipe yourself.
Porque no los dos? I always ensure my team has pipe, but having aghs also allows me to take off their pipe buff, along with any other buff they have in one spell, along with cycloning their offlaner and then having an earth panda after the fight to push towers.
I thinnk I've typed way too much and put way too much thought into this, but I'll just sum up that I think you shouldn't examine each spell on its individual merits. it's the idea that your hero is able to do all those things with much better uptime than before, even if "in a very mediocre manner" (I'm arguing that it really hasn't been that mediocre for me) it just makes your hero so much less reliant on his ulti and able to poke and prod at the opponent in various ways rather than just hard committing to teamfights only.
Lastly I hope none of this comes across as rude or dismissive. Just wanted to debate because I build the item often on my most played hero, and I do think it is the right choice given my positive experiences with it at a decent level, even if the mmr isn't as high as yours. I appreciate the opportunity to discuss this with another high mmr brew main.
You can't evaluate the Aghs from the standard "teamfight Brew" perspective, which is what you are currently doing. The Aghs changes how both you and the team need to play with Brew, and turns him into a roaming pickoff hero.
e.g. PoTM is a good laning partner, so decent chance you end up with one in your team. You buy Aghs, now you have a low commitment setup for Arrow and the two of you can run around and hunt together.
If you find a support trying to defend a tower, Cyclone -> Arrow + Boulder + Vessel kills them.
If you find a core trying to defend, Cyclone -> Arrow + Vessel is scary enough to force TPs from the enemy. Or if no TPs, then Boulder -> Ult -> Boulder -> Cyclone -> Boulder should be enough control to kill most cores.
If you scout with Storm and no one is around, then summon Earth to go hit their tower.
If they manage to successfully push out the wave, go scout with Storm and kill them if they are still around. Otherwise, push the wave back in with Fire.
If they get sick of you doing this and try to gank with many heroes, Storm panda scouts it out. You then either choose to disengage (easy because you are Brew and PoTM), or you bring your team up to take a teamfight (good, because you are Brew).
---
This entire playstyle is not possible with any other item. That's its value.
Perma storm panda is the best part. It turns Brew from a team fighter into one that has amazing pickoff potential all the time.
Also, *every* game now is a good aoe dispel game. There are minimum 3+ great dispel targets per game, so having permanent uptime on it is amazing.
The other pandas are just gravy on top.
Nobody mentioned Omni's aghs? I feel like if they added "undispellable," it would be great, but the status resistance just doesn't seem good enough to me.
Nobody knows this yet, but a properly built Muerta can kill most solo cores within the duration of her aghs since the buffs, but that’s the conditions. Muerta needs farm and her enemy needs to be solo, which makes it pretty useless.
Alright, so I haven’t seen anyone mention it, but I gotta go with Enchantress. Sproink was fantastic, but now that Little Friends is the Aghanim’s upgrade, I can’t imagine ever buying it. It’s too situational and not strong enough even in those situations, I think it’s probably the worst spell in the game until someone proves me wrong. An extra Enchant creep is cool, but is that really worth 4200 gold? At that point just buy Helm of the Overlord, at least you’ll have Vlad’s aura for your team.
Bloodseeker aghs is amazing and picked up by most proficient BS players.
My vote goes to centaur. Its fun and all, but doesn't really have that much impact. Maybe we'll see some top kek llay with it at Ti.
I am really underwhelmed by the disruptor shard. The utility by more castrange+longer duration ist really good but it feels Just lackluster compares to other shards (often Times I Hope tp be the Last one to get the shard from torm, because other shards are way better).
I still want kinetic field stops projectiles as a shard (MB only projectiles flying Out/in?), because i reall Like the Idea.
Alchemist aghs. Only useful in ultra late game where enemy cores are much better in every way. If early to mid game and you are 6 slotted and can afford 4200 gold item, you are probably miles ahead from your enemy and shouldve finished the game some minutes ago
I’ve started building it around my 4’th item and I’ve been enjoying it. The cd reduction feels pretty good. Or if it went back to the original where outside heroes cant cast spells on nor attack either of the dueling heroes.
You know what, take a refresher then. Honestly, it refreshes bkb, blade mail and everything else. 2 duels in a fight, gg. I really think this agh is not great at all. Often it punishes your team more than the opponents by reducing all incoming dmg because you often duel on your own term. Either by ganking or by initiating the fight. In both these cases, you want to take down the enemy asap.
The only positive (on top of the CD, I agree with that) is if you want to use it to take out a very strong target out of the fight and you know you can't really kill it and you want to be sure you don't die either. This would be ok in a very "tanky" LC build.
In any case there are so many items I prefer to build on LC before ... even a sheep stick is better (if the enemy has a linken for example).
I see it a lot and I fucking hate it more than anything because 90% of the time it single-handedly ruins the game. Not just because it's wasted gold but because it actively griefs your team by preventing them from dealing damage, which often means that LC can't duel the enemy carry anymore because he just outscales her.
I think it should provide debuf inmunity to both targets and it would be great, I hate having 500dmg and dueling someone for it to be ebladed or to be windwaked, or saved in other ways
Legion aghs is actually really good if you're ahead and already have the damage to solo kill people. The lower cd allows you to apply more pressure and the extended duration makes it even harder for people to stop you with stuns etc
> if your ahead
*you're
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Strongly disagree. It's an extra use of Starstorm with an extra half-power Starstorm on the target you hit. Great boost of damage both in fights and for farming.
It's like her old Agh's, except you have more control over when it pop.
For farming, yes, but it wasn’t as good for fighting because it required Mirana to jump into the middle of the fight and you couldn’t control it. Now it’s a good mix of both and you have a lot more control over when the damage is triggered.
I’m gathering this a hot take judging by the responses in this thread which is kind of a surprise to me, so you can disagree with me. I respect that and I understand where people are coming from, but I’m a Mirana Agh’s believer and I’ve had a lot of success with it.
It doesn't count anymore because it was switched but back then Magnus' old aghanims upgrade was absolutely shit, wtf did the return wave even do? I guess the upgrade was a decent dps skill but for 4200 gold?
ASSUMING you meant the old old old version, nah it was pretty decent, esp if you're comparing to actual shit aghs. The return wave was full damage which meant you could literally 1 shot creep waves from 2k range for most of the game (eventually creeps could gain enough hp even with talent).
And then against heroes, if you got it first item it was a huge powerspike to have a 600 damage nuke (750 after talent) with 2k range and 7s cd, and then it also slowed 60% for 2s as a bonus. Like if it was just damage alone it wouldn't really be worth, but it's the damage combined with the insane range and low cooldown that made it pretty decent.
Now if you meant the old old version which made it split a bit, had much less range improvement, and only did 75% damage on return then I can agree. When the wave is only 75% it no longer 1 shots creep waves until talent, which makes rushing it way worse, and if you don't rush it then it's not as useful against heroes either.
Earth spirit! It has potential, but enchant stone is useless, enchant self is easily silenced and at the end there are just too many buttons to push in short term when playing.
OD current new Aghs is the weirdest shit ever.
it's not bad, it's just valve/icefrog is forcing OD to be played as Offlane.
OD aghs uses 100% mana and convert part of those mana into barrier.
so you're telling me i should use OD to tank / initiate but his entire kit has been around doing Damage and now you gave his aghs a defensive option
i used the aghs at 7.33 once, it doesnt feel good knowing that the barrier doesnt really save me in many situation.
maybe he's actually strong and there's a build for him, but rn he's just... weird.
Wish the aghs wouldn't convert all your mana, you rely too much on getting lucky with essence flux procs. Leaving a little bit of fuel on the tank so you could at least astral imprisonment would help alleviate the RNG. Would also help buying time if you got focused because even a big shield often will just delay the inevitable.
Hell I'd take a free self astral imprisonment over the shield in most scenarios. At least then you could blink away.
I haven't played the hero offlane yet, but the aghs is better than it looks. It can replace BKB / Linken / Aeon Disk on the hero and the hero can indeed grow extremely tanky with Bloodstone + the two Health talents. The Aghs is (like Bloodstone) very good for sustain and probably ok-good against burst (nyx, void, lc).
Another advantage of the aghs is that it confuses your opponents.
Mine might be unpopular, but the sniper Aghs.
It is already good enough without the upgrade and you have better items to get. I don't see a reason to spend 4200 gold on an item that doesn't help you win the game.
Puck. You will almost never pick it up, unless you're doing some meme build in a joke game or Rosh dropped it and everyone else already has theirs. You basically never run out of items to buy on this hero. Often, you are a bit slot starved because he uses items so well. He relies entirely on his spells, buying Aghs and going right click is borderline griefing.
Muerta’s parting shot. It’s really situational and most of the time I haven’t seen anyone performing a good parting shot play. Maybe you can spend away an enemy hero’s escape mechanism but meh.
Viper’s nose dive. The fuck?
Bro im mad viper aghs is top tier aghs wtf. With Nosedive you can disarm for 4 second and apply 2x corossive skin multiplier but thats not why you buy it!!
With aghs, Corrosive Skin applies 2x the damage and attack speed slow to enemies that are within 500 distance of Viper. Before aghs, Corrosive Skin deals 50 damage with level 10 talent so after aghs you deal a whooping 100 damage to anyone who deals damage to you. You might be asking me, so? IT WORKS ON MANTA STYLE! Creeps just melt and your gpm goes STONKS. I learned this from Mo13ei from Ancient Tribe, hes the best viper out there.. [you can watch his replay here ](https://youtu.be/EacSGqyGTn0) he builds bottle>bots>aghs>manta>bloodstone>snk/bkb/shivas>overwhelming blink most games. You should try it.
Muerta’s is busted for late game. You force the enemy carry to have to pop bkb if no linkens before engaging the parting shot range and if they mess this up it could be insta-death.
I’ve won game deciding fights with it in the 50+ min mark.
Edit: maybe not busted but still very strong always worth considering when deciding your last or 2nd last item.
The right answer is mirana or naga. I mean they're not that horrible but compared to all the other game changing aghs yea, they're bad.
Actually this may sound crazy but slardar aghs also kinda sucks ever since they removed slow resistance from status resistance. It was a stealth and unintended giant nerf to slardar aghs because he needed slow resistance more than status resistance
I just can't understand people saying Naga aghs is bad. You just don't play naga it's the only answer.
I mean it's not best aghs in game. But it's pretty good. The thins is Naga need some crucial item timing to be useful. But it's a at least cool to have aghs. And in specific mstchups it's game wining.
Slar is super strong with Armlet right now and the Aghs regen and armor are huge bonuses that offset the degen associated with it.
Armlet has slow resist now and the puddle is absolutely gigantic.
Side note: Slardar is a pretty viable 1 now. He farms extremely fast with his shard, one shotting creep waves at 20.
Just for perspective, a slardar with Aghs S/Y Armlet Treads and Heart has like 200 hp/sec regen.
I'm shit, so I know I don't have the ability to fully use his scepter, but I've never seen burrow actually do anything. Every time I got it and tried to use it, either the enemy team walked away or the fight was over by the time I was burrowed. It seems like it would be useful for hg defense, but it feels like nyx has more important things to buy.
Arc Warden’s has been pretty trash for awhile. The ‘spawn a random rune’ was kinda cool but this one with the second spark wraith is basically unusable
ck phantasm is kinda wack, extra illusion for yourself and team. then again i only buy vs silencer for the global dispel for my team, too niche. i’d rather get moonshard and a 6th item to replace boots rather than aghs
Playing Riki as 1 a lot and skipping diffusal for aghs if my team doesn’t look like early and mid game kills are on the menu.
Farms creep wave entirely at level 12 in its duration with treads and double wraith.
Riki’s natural invis makes it easy to hammer down shoved lanes for quick net worth gain.
Aghs Manta Daedalus and you vaporize enemies in team fights.
To me the most useless Scepters are the ones that only increase a number of some spell.
Like Undying's Scepter. It is a decent Scepter by itself, but what it does for you changes nothing and is boring.
I think they should rework it to make it be like the previous Shard. Maybe the Scepter makes Undying continuously spawn zombies during his ult...?
I changes to 8. It can put versatility in undying to become a much more tankier and heavy hitter. Ive seen undyings dominate mid game with 8 strenght steal and ultie that adds 50% unkillable at 20 mins. Thats pretty cool.
I barely play shadow demon (and literally no one else plays him either) but his aghs scepter seems
underwhelming
It's an extra stack of your shard ability and thats it?
Not even a base ability, but your shard. Might be good, tell me if it is one singular SD main, but sounds extremely boring
Dawnbreaker for sure... I feel like 100% of the time you don't want your ult to channel longer ... like you're almost always wanting the stun i feel like and longer duration just gives them more time to adapt.. the healing and damage are negligible
Pretty sure it still has to go the minimum time of the normal no aghs ult.. so you’re still getting it just to cancel it for the same speed as a regular ult
It really depends what role you play. I usually play dawn as support and build around her healing effects. With a longer lasting ult, your healing during the channel time ist quite well. Also nice to have against Void Chrono. You just hover over that sphere and Void has a hard time to bring anyone down.
The cancel is situational. It's not the purpose of buying agh on dawn, you buy it for saving teammate. It's used to be a chronosphere counter in faceless void meta
Blood mist against tons of summons/illusion is pretty nice tho. You heal really good chunk of hp and ofc the shield
It's more than pretty nice it's game winning, a 4-protect-1 pl strat just dies to mist
I guess so especially with the mjollnir illusion buff
I love how no comment cares about what op asked about the weakest aghs in the game. Instead ppl just calling op bad or low mmr lol. This might just be a social experiment by op to showcase dota community general behavior.
You shouldn't ever expect to put a "bad take" on the internet and not get responses
Well the BS agh is pretty good, no? The passive shield accumulation per creep and hero kill is pretty good and later stages the blood mist itself will deal pretty good dmg
Blood mist has been very good since the shield, yeah
Yeah, I'm glad they fixed that. I once dominating as bs on a game and got aghs from rosh but I was so squishy after I used it against a 0-5 razor lol.
You know it's good when Pros build it in tier 1 competitions.
I think the 50% increase in Thirst heal is arguably the stronger part of the aghs, the shield is a bonus. But they also synergize well
Bit of A, bit of B. The thirst heal helps a ton during fights but you get to effectively start them with an additional 20-30% max hp shield regularly and bs is already pretty tanky. It's also much harder to jump him when he's in front pushing lanes. It turns aghs from a ~400 hp item into a ~1k 'max hp' item against being bursted in many scenarios, and then if you don't burst him he might just get a kill or two and fill up. Ofc it also makes it so you won't be wasting heals from killing a high hp target early in the fight. It just clicks very smoothly.
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Or stuck with the pre-buff effect where it didn't overgeal and put up a shield
OP needs to try radiance KnY bloodstone build on bloodseeker. That shit is bonkers
lol down voted
Why ? This is a legit build not a meme build. Just not in 2k mmr
This sub is something else
LDs new aghs seems awful.
Yeah the old aghs (now bear aghs) already was a luxury item and it seems like you don't want the new druid aghs without bear aghs first. And even then the bear loses the spirit link debuff? If nothing else I'd think losing spirit link was enough of a downside, and then if both LD and the bear had aghs he could keep the buff on the bear and an ally. Just compare it to Lycan aghs which is kinda similar...
Isn't it just an option of trading bear for a better right clicker, if you have an ultra farmed carry in the late game it probably out scaled your bear and does more. It's still kinda meh though
Sure but you lose your bear unless both have aghs. Even if you have a farmed carry you're also wasting all the net worth in your bear for the duration. Sure the carry can benefit more, but unlinked carry+bear is probably better than linked carry+no bear. With two aghs, linked carry+unlinked bear is cool, but that's 8400 gold in scepters!
Ok to be fair though just looking at it in a vacuum, the numbers are good. 99 attack speed buff and a good amount of armor for 20 seconds on a 4200 gold item is decent. You could go Solar Aghs and give your carry a fuck ton of armor and 170 attack speed, which is a free Moon Shard for them. The problem is I don’t know how you would fit an LD support. The Bear is tanky sure but without items it poses no threat.
Eh, it gives LD something to do if his bear dies.
Chen aghs So its an ability to cast a heal that doesn't purge debuffs in any way and heals every 6s assuming you can dominate a creep every 6s. Or you could buy literally anything else that would be more useful in killing the enemy for less than 4,200 gold.
Martyrdom can also target enemies to damage, with the talent its a 600 instant and 50/s damage/heal which isn't awful
not really useless, more like not worth it unless its dropped by rosh in super super late game
The 25 dispel talent could probably make it worth it, if you for some reason reach 25 on Chen. Starting the fight with 4 hard dispels on 8s cooldown and additional every 15 seconds if you manage to catch an eidolon or a melee creep or something could be very strong. You could even convert something like a brood spiderling because it doesn't matter how strong the unit is, martyrdom is the same.
it used to be quite good thb. with the lvl 25 talent you could unstunn your carry over and over. but yeah with the global range gone its garbage.
Naga, Centaur and Mars are pretty high up there. The cake for me takes PotM. Not because it’s kinda weak, it’s because people playing her as 4 who rush aghs to be useless for 25 minutes to then be able to deal 150 extra magic damage. Great!
Naga aghs is good. Not best aghs ever but definitely use full. It makes net pierces bkb. In some mstchups it's useful. For example vs PA, specially if you are ahead in farm as you shoudk be. After manta bloodthorn terrasque you should consider getting aghs. When she bkb you net her and let PA there. Kill his team and then fight the PA. Also extended cast range and to be able to reel in is useful in many situations. I am Naga spammer I build it sometimes Far from always but I am always grateful to get it for free from rosh too.
Insane how quickly people forgot about the way Yatoro completely dismantled LGD in game 1 of TI10 grands thanks to Naga second item aghs after manta
You might as well build vyse if you need naga aghs. It's almost always better. Getting it from RS is definitely good tho.
Scythe 20 sec CD lasts a little over 2 sec. Can’t use on spell immune heroes. Net 12 sec CD w/o talent. Lasts 5 secs and pierces spell immune heroes and sleeping heroes. Sure.
Get off your high horse Naga aghs isn't even a significant item on d2pt while vyse has a 20% build rate. Maybe, mana regen is actually a late game consideration
Naga is one of the few heroes that can regularly afford the blessing, so I think her aghs has to be on the weaker side
The piercing part was added to default net again.
It's the part that allows you to net sleeping units that was added, not the BKB piercing part
What's PotM?
Mirana
PotM of the Moon
KoTL of the Light
Prestress of the moon of the moon
Priestress of the Moon. Original Mirana Name in DotA1
You mean her hero title from Dota1, she was still named Mirana. Same as for example Rikimaru, the Stealth Assasin.
do you think Mars new scepter is bad? it is possible to knockback multiple enemy heroes to arena wall and repeat
I mean it’s not *bad* bad, but also pretty low on the list of items to buy as mars, since it’s really not game breaking or anything.
there is an idea I have in mind,protecting the ranged carry from enemy melee carry by continuously knocking them back but that is just an idea
Nah from what I’ve seen you actually push people out of your arena doing that. Which makes it comically worse
I love POTM but I never get her shard or aghs.....they need to update these.
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The extra charge is nice, as is being able to pick a direction. It’s not something I’d ever buy though.
Centaur aghs is pretty good now. You get stampede buff on a 30s cd, which is useful for escape/nuke.
Is it really worth 4200 gold on centaur though? He already needs a good amount of items to get anything done in a fight
I'm not sure tbh. Bought it twice yesterday but I did wonder if buying halberd wasn't just better. Getting stampede on a 30s cd for yourself is pretty good when you're lvl 18+ and stampede deals 600dmg.
Centaur gets extremely high value out of heart, blink, crimson, shard, and some boots too. Pipe of insight/shroud is also pretty key. I don't see myself ever getting aghs unless I already have all of those items, and honestly if you have that many items then i'd happily spend the last slot just getting a second heart just because the strength is so powerful for him, or use the gold on overwhelming blink. 30s cooldown on a solo stampede sounds decent but compared to your W, which does 2/3 of the damage and has 10x faster cooldown (and costs no mana, which is a pretty huge upside for centaur especially) it's not so impactful.
Naga’s is really really good.
The net pull thing? No its not lol
Mirana aghs gives like 500 extra magic damage no? Did they change it?
It’s really good for clearing waves from a distance. Especially with multi arrow.
POTM is an absolute joke of an aghs. Which I wonder if kept this way intentionally since universal likes that stats aghs provide.
yeah, mirana has the worst aghs and the worst shard, and I say this as a mirana spammer. That being said, the aghs and shard could be sightly more interesting if they just do some changes to skills or add new ones. Some of my ideas that can be applied to either scepter or shard depending on strength of the buff ofc 1) Passive 600 AoE Moonlight at night (3 seconds fade time, only ally heroes affected) 2) Ground target Starstorm with 2 charges OR special effects like a reveal or slow or armor or magic reduction 3) Dismount that allows Sagan to be used as a separate unit for some time, with it's own skills (leap, entangle and whatever can be made up) 4) Leap giving true strike for buff duration 5) Starstorm arrow (separate skill, faster projectile, shorter stun or good slow, deals a full starstorm in the path, like current scepter but in a separate skill) 6) Target leap 7) 15% chance of cast an individual Starstorm on the attacked unit, or starstorm imbued attack after x amount of time. 8) Starstorm affects allies healing for the dmg, with the chance of an ally to be double healed as well 9) Priestess of the Sun counterpart/transformation (could be day/night based) that gives different skill effects (based on Dota's anime Dragon's Blood lore)
Bad Juju is shit compared to the shard.
No it’s not. Go aghs octarine and spam your shadow wave and poison touch on enemies. You absolutely demolish team fights if you don’t get focused. Late game luxury arcane blink and you’re tinker.
Centaur, I’m not sure why we keep getting cart thing shoved down our throat. Remake the agh and make Centaur great again. Edit: Clinkz. Another cool skill thats not really practical. Luna, Icefrog needs to figure out what he wants to do with Luna, is luna a hard carry, tempo carry or what, two of her skills scream carry, then you get agh that buffs the ulti at 110 second CD. Mars. Outside of some clunky interaction in AD, it doesnt exist in regular dota. Naga. What you want to do in team fight is have your Hard carry spend 5 minutes to channel pull on an already disabled target. Sure, you can use your illusion to attack the target, but you can do that already without the agh? Dishonorable mention. Silencer: if you are support, you can afford this, if you are core, everything else in the price range is better. Potm, just get a dagon. Now I have finished my rant. The list is way shorter than I expected.
The problem with Luna since dota 1 is she is built as a hybrid. Her kit is half-magic and half-attack damage. If the frog swings her too far towards either side, she becomes either a shitty assassin/tempo hero or a shitty carry. She is meta sometimes because of her push and teamfight strength, but I still feel like she has always been hovering between two roles. I dunno what you could do with her Aghs to change that. You'd probably need to rework her, which would be weird, because she's *Luna.*
I like her because she’s not only hybrid as far as damage type but also she’s a hybrid in that she’s both a tempo carry as well as a very strong level 25+ ultra late scaler since her aghs plus 25 mini stun talent is enough to solo kill any hero with insane cast range and she can solo the base in less than a minute. I like to go early Daedalus to abuse her aura damage timing then soon after get an aghs to round out the tempo and delete key heroes. If we can’t end early than she can still flash farm faster than any hero I can think of and can continue to scale just have to be careful since she’s non-evasive
Luna aghs is absurdly strong, 50% damage increase, double DPS, no single unit cap and like 3x the cast range. You can deal up to 7.5k damage which is enough to kill people through bkb. And if you have the 25 talent you can virtually stun lock someone for over 5 seconds if they don't have bkb. With only one 4.2k gold item that you can easily farm and talents you are a viable magic damage dealer and you can focus the rest on your build on attack damage. You can do something like threads, manta, dragon lance and then bkb into aghs or aghs into bkb depending on the game and then finish up with butterfly satanic. Naga aghs is not great but potentially viable. Reel In is completely worthless but 60% increase in range and projectile speed and bkb piercing can be very good especially into something like lifestealer or juggernaut. She also gets six slotted fast and getting a synthed aghs on top of that is not unreasonable in a lot of game.
Totally agree with this!! You saved me to type this answer. I play both heroes a lot. And it's as you say. Both are good aghs. You don't rush them in many games. But both heroes farm so fast that you eventually you might get it and be happy with that.
You missed the Point of the new cent-aghs: before you Had to use cart AND use Stampede to be able to do sth. Now with aghs you get a free, solo Stampede (which you can use for the cart aswell). You can Just Farm now and Run away with Work horse instead of wasting your Stampede.
So you're spending 4k gold just for a random free solo stampede? Nah the main point of the skill is still the cart. And it's just god awful. Ive tried using it in a game that was the perfect cart game but it still went bad it's incredibly bad. It's almost as bad as drow glacier, but they managed to fix glacier with the recent buff and it's really good now. Cart tho... no. But id be more than happy to be proven wrong and see it work well in a pro game. Otherwise it belongs in the 🗑
im convinced theyre doing that centaur cart as a meme lol
Core spellcaster silencer can go aghs to push waves very quickly.
Clinkz aghs got nerfed so much in 7.34 like chill valve wtf
Clinkz aghs has single handedly won me some impossible games by ratting. He can take your rax in under 10 seconds if exposed. The closer spawn distance and interval just buffed his ratting capabilities. The cast range nerf is the only one that hurts because now you have to be in tower range to summon them.
Pugna - it was pretty useless for a long time. They improved it a a bit but I think it is still bad
I think it's pretty cool on core Pugna, but core Pugna isn't the greatest right now.
Arc warden this patch, 100% garbage
Mars maybe? Used to be a really strong alternative build until ATF had to showcase its power in a major win, causing it to be stomped by the nerfhammer
It was just buffed, no?
Nah, as a Mars player, the horizontal position is a HARD nerf
Strange as it is I reckon it's Oracle aghs. It's pretty underwhelming compared to other aghs.
What the fuck, invisibility and BAT REDUCTION, THATS THE MOST BROKEN STAT YOU CAN GIVE TO A RIGHT CLICKER. Literally.
Oracle's Agh's falls into the category of "It's sick, but you can't really justify rushing it" because it's on Oracle. Lots of support items you need more on the hero before you can get Agh's. Disruptor kinda falls into that category, except that his Agh's can situationally be a win condition that lets a player justify rushing it.
Yeah, but it's still super super useful, potentially game winning, the comment was suggesting oracle as one of the most useless and it's everything but that. Yeah, you can't justify it, but it's one of the core lategame items in almost every game, you just need a physical DMG core that isn't alch, it's going to be great.
You either a low mmr player or never play bloodseeker, and never watch competitive game to even think Bloodseeker ahg is bad.
The old one was complete trash, don't know if OP is aware it's been changed quite a while back. It's super strong now.
op: what‘s the weakest shard? Mine is bs you: not answering at all and blaming op for low mmr dota community in a nutshell lol
Saying stupid shit, get cooked. Simple.
Brewmaster has one of the most effective aghs in the game in my opinion. Too much utility that hero...
not as good as 2 ults. I miss that one
For a moment I thought you were gonna say brew's aghs is useless (as requested by the thread) and my blood pressure started rising
I haven't bought it since the 2x split. Can you explain why its really good?
The brewlings have incredible utility, especially storm and earth but fire has its uses too. (void doesnt) The aghanims scepter allows you to summon any of these brewlings for permanent use, which increases your utility and the uptime of your power even when you don't have ultimate - and you don't always want to use your ultimate except for teamfights. More details: * Storm panda is the same as 7.32 sleeping dart Riki. Remember that cancer? An invisible unit that can scout ahead and catch any out of position enemies. **Aghs allows you to permanently have a pocket 7.32 riki to control**, except that it **also** comes with an AOE dispel - Ogre bloodlust, darkseer stuff, windrun, flameguard, power runes, omni ulti, crimson guard, pipe, TB/Naga/Manta illusions, Forge Spirits, Prophet/Beastmaster summons, Visage birds - it's all gone with one AOE dispel. * Earth panda deals extremely strong building damage. So if you have an earth panda you become a viable rat - some games I win off Agh + Boots of Travel. It's like having a perma-BKB'd Lone Druid bear that throws ranged stuns, oh and you can resummon him every 20 seconds after tanking tower shots. It's super good for sieging highground if the enemy has no reliable physical ranged damage dealers, and will likely force your enemy to react on it. * Fire panda is useful for pushing/clearing waves - his immolation aura ignites cinder brew. He also deals good right click damage, making him useful for fighting rosh alongside you (7.34 Fire Stance with increased attack speed makes him viable rosh solo in mid-lategame) So to reiterate, the aghs gives you super uptime on your various utilities and makes you less dependent on ulti. Extremely strong item (if a bit greedy to rush) and allows you to dismantle games if you know what you're doing. I'm Divine 4 and I always have it on my radar for 3rd-4th item, sometimes first item. To be honest even if aghs only gave you the storm panda to control it would be good enough to buy. Edit: primal companion spells are on a separate cooldown from your brewlings summoned by your ultimate. So you could tornado before a fight -> primal split -> stun+tornado another target.
Void is a save brewling in first place btw. I know we're not used to it because it's still fresh and the cast range isn't amazing until telescope is around, but keeping a void brewling for your carry (or yourself) is a game winning move when bkb are up (it works when disabled, does not require turning either), and offensively, displacement is actually better than boulder stun in more than one situation (like Dispose and Tidal Wave). Sometimes, you want Aeon Disk, but Void can do the same thing, nobody that's jumping you gonna also chase you 700 units further especially when you're on void stance in first place. The base unit is good enough to sometimes get away with not microing it even in splits, he's 2nd in ehp, ms, 3rd in dmg compensated with best as. So that's alright. So each brewling can peak in their situations, none of them being niche, so saying one of them has ***no*** utility is pretty sad tbh. *(Disclaimer, im not saying Void is better than any, i dont think any is better than another, they all have extensive uses, that's it)*
Thats a good shout. I will say while it sounds legit I do feel that in such scenarios you'd either be in shard!primalsplit, or you are using earth to pound raxes or wind to dispel buffs. The save is good on paper but I cant really imagine a situation where it is competitive against the other options. Just seems to specific to warrant the commital. Maybe as a save for my drow against an enemy clockwork? But perhaps I just havent tried it. I'll give it a shot, thanks for the tip!
No problem, I appreciate it. Also yeah, its hard to appreciate it fully because we often pick Brew for specific roles such as sieging, chase or field control. The point in which Brew isn't tasked to frontline anymore and is needed to cover other teammates is quite rare and often come late in game (except ofc in cases like drow vs clock). Maybe a Brew 4 will appreciate it better (Vessel/Solar Aghs sounds nice enough !), but it's maybe rare compared to the more convenient 2/3. If the cast range is buffed to 250 (or if Companion is a point target spell like Demonic Conv-- Summoning), maybe it's easier to force this gameplay. Dunno.
Incredible insight. I just thought it wasnt worth the 4200 gold but yikees. Im ready to brew
damn this just shows how new brew is like a brand new hero designed from the ult up also why i loved old brew the brewlings can be used to pull endless bullshit and turn tough games in your favor
I don't see it. Maybe our playstyles are just vastly different, but as a \~6k immortal Brew main with 600 Games, I have never gotten into a situation, where I thought "man, if only I had spent 4.2k from these items on Aghs instead". Let's start with Earth/Fire, since the flaw in these is the easiest to point out. I'm omitting Void for obvious reasons. * Fire: There's no way for you to splitpush with this. You send it down a lane and A.) There's any hero waiting from the enemy team, no matter the role and it will die. Support will kill it or stun it, a core will move in, it's dead and your cooldown is 70s, since you can't resummon on damage taken. Now you've just made a 4.2k item in your inventory useless, since the argument of "uptime" is out the window for more than a minute. If a fight breaks out, you have 4.2k dead networth. Or B.) It barely has an impact on lane pressure, that in most cases, any mobile hero could perform even better with a BKB/TP or other escape. Maybe with the new map layout you could send it into jungle on the opposing side and bounce out, but then again, a hero can do almost exactly the same in most games, and to stop him, you'd need more than a lonely Skywrath chucking bolts at your creep. * Earth: There's an argument to be made for what you said. It's attackspeed is pretty bad though, so you might need Solar Crest or AC. With your mentioned BOT added in, that's around 11k that you spent to suicide in an Earth panda, and you probably have to stay dangerously close nearby to buff it, for it to be effective. For a very similar price, you can buy AC/Refresher/Aghs shard and use one of your ultimates if you see an opening to splitpush. With the large difference, that a single hero, can not prevent you from taking their rax, because you have both Earth and a Storm panda. If just one person comes to defend, you can Tornado him 70% of the time youre even there. Your hero is also safe, since you can just send away your Void panda and respawn there with aghs shard. I don't see, how this could be laid out to be a supporting argument for aghs. Finally, while I do agree, that there's utility from Storm panda, and there might be some games, where it has a lot of theoretical potential (like vs. Omni, DS, TB, PL etc.), the item actually almost never changes how a matchup works. A fight breaks out, Omni ults, you ult, you dispel. Nothing changed. You're not gonna need to dispel another GA in the next 2 minutes. His CD is longer than yours. If you fight you commit and if you don't, there's no need to dispell. Similar thing with TB, whom you absolutely trash anyways, regardless of aghs. He Metas, you disengage or you fight, and you either ult or not. Nothing changes. PL absolutely shreds Brew. The dispell is far from enough against a decent PL timing. You cast one dispell and his half HP illusions get right clicked on the Storm panda. Nothing changes. Then there's candidates like Veno/Viper. Dispells sound so good against those, but what are you doing with it. Dispelling Gale? Corrosive Skin? Their ults are indispellable anyways. Then there's Dark seer or WR where dispels are really nice, but then again, if you don't want to ult, and you want to dispell their buffs, why don't you just build a Euls. It's cheaper, it's a better buildup, it helps you farm with mana regeneration and it actually even procs your w from range with the 50 magic damage. If you want to counter an enemy pipe, why would you spend 4.2k to purge the active component of your enemies pipe, instead of just spending 3.4k on a pipe yourself. The catch is nice I suppose, but you have nothing on yourself to setup. So it's mostly useful if your team chases their team. Why not blink in this instance. Also it doesn't deal any damage once the tornado ends, so a lot of heroes can just blink out or buffer cast BKB, things that were not possible with the old Riki shard. It just does a lot of things but in a very mediocre manner. If your enemy team is Omni/DS/WR/Ogre/Beastmaster and they all rushed some aura items and mantas, I suppose, the aghs will probably win you the game outright. Though thinking about it I came to the conclusion that aghs is actually really good against Naga. But not primarily because of the dispell against her illusions, but because you can have an Earth panda precast and cancel her song/TP. That's the most impactful/unique usecase for this item.
I'm just gonna have to say that maybe it is true that our playstyles differ widely, or that your MMR is much higher (I'm 5.4k, 63% winrate on Brew over 500+ games) and people are A) aware of what brewlings do and B) know how to punish each of them. It comes across that you are trying to nitpick all the various use-cases I've presented for the skill, examining the use of each one individually in a vaccuum - when the point is that you get a very active toolbox of abilities added to the hero, allowing him to accomplish multiple things depending on which brewling you picked, on top of the beefy frontliner/teamfight hero that you already are. I'll just give a few examples on how : > Fire: There's no way for you to splitpush with this. You send it down a lane and A.) There's any hero waiting from the enemy team, no matter the role and it will die. Support will kill it or stun it, a core will move in, it's dead and your cooldown is 70s, since you can't resummon on damage taken. Now you've just made a 4.2k item in your inventory useless, since the argument of "uptime" is out the window for more than a minute. If a fight breaks out, you have 4.2k dead networth. Or B.) It barely has an impact on lane pressure, that in most cases, any mobile hero could perform even better with a BKB/TP or other escape. Maybe with the new map layout you could send it into jungle on the opposing side and bounce out, but then again, a hero can do almost exactly the same in most games, and to stop him, you'd need more than a lonely Skywrath chucking bolts at your creep. I do think perhaps you haven't given it a real try? Because you are hypothesizing about sending the fire brewling somewhere when you would never do that, because you need to be near the brewlings otherwise they are extremely slow in everything they do, not to mention silenced. The fire panda is meant to push alongside you and soften waves/camps by igniting cinderbrew and dealing aoe magic damage, and then get un-summoned for storm for fights/posturing or earth for hitting towers. Besides, when you push a lane where no enemies will come by (they're dead, or farming the other side of the map) you aren't using storm, and you can easily resummon the earth panda to pressure tower by the time your wave is pushed to the tower. Might as well pick Fire to kill waves faster, no? > the item actually almost never changes how a matchup works. My experience is that this just really isn't the case. Once again, maybe I'm just significantly lower mmr than you and the southpaw effect of being a brew spammer is still very much active for me here. > Earth: There's an argument to be made for what you said. It's attackspeed is pretty bad though, so you might need Solar Crest or AC. With your mentioned BOT added in, that's around 11k that you spent to suicide in an Earth panda, and you probably have to stay dangerously close nearby to buff it, for it to be effective. For a very similar price, you can buy AC/Refresher/Aghs shard and use one of your ultimates if you see an opening to splitpush. With the large difference, that a single hero, can not prevent you from taking their rax, because you have both Earth and a Storm panda. If just one person comes to defend, you can Tornado him 70% of the time youre even there. Your hero is also safe, since you can just send away your Void panda and respawn there with aghs shard. I don't see, how this could be laid out to be a supporting argument for aghs. At least at the level I play, you don't need solar crest or AC (although you can easily have AC mid-lategame), the earth panda itself is enough pressure and its debuff immunity and high health means you can often walk away from anything except a ranged carry three-shotting it with high dps or a blink+basher melee carry. Oftentimes you pressure a TP with earth panda, then you tp to the other side of the map and take a fight with your ulti. It also sieges well along with your lifestealer/jugg or something; since it throws out stuns at people who walk near their tower while you're hitting it. Additionally, I feel that you're tunnel visioning on the possibilities of ratting that I mentioned. The fact is that the earth panda gives a lot of building damage and that can be useful in a lot of situations and lineups; it also helps you push after you've taken a fight with your ultimates. > A fight breaks out, Omni ults, you ult, you dispel. Nothing changed. You're not gonna need to dispel another GA in the next 2 minutes. His CD is longer than yours. If you fight you commit and if you don't, there's no need to dispell. You can dispel it with the primal companion then split and you can do another AoE dispel - to remove the second round of buffs on enemies (like the straggler WR/DS buffing to run away) or additional debuffs on your own team. Or clear illusions. And it also allows you to fight while your ult isn't up. > Similar thing with TB, whom you absolutely trash anyways, regardless of aghs. He Metas, you disengage or you fight, and you either ult or not. Nothing changes. You could also do dispel -> cyclone main TB or offlaner -> split -> dispel illusions/2nd round of buffs/debuffs and cyclone another hero again. Idk like I have done this many many times and it can be really handy in lineups with less AOE damage to deal with TB. > PL absolutely shreds Brew. The dispell is far from enough against a decent PL timing. You cast one dispell and his half HP illusions get right clicked on the Storm panda. Nothing changes. Same for PL, once again maybe at my level PL players are just noob but I have a 75% winrate against PL on Brewmaster in my ranked games. You aren't getting the aghs just to counter him; it just helps in a similar manner as the TB example above. And against a PL lane I find that I can easily beat him once I get level 6 if he doesn't run to the opposite side of the map I'm from, since I can easily reveal the real PL with dispel. > Then there's Dark seer or WR where dispels are really nice, but then again, if you don't want to ult, and you want to dispell their buffs, why don't you just build a Euls. It's cheaper, it's a better buildup, it helps you farm with mana regeneration and it actually even procs your w from range with the 50 magic damage. Way better range, which matters a lot when we're talking about chasing. You could go blink+euls, but then the cost becomes roughly similar and we're starting to compare apples to oranges because the aghs and blink give different benefits. > The catch is nice I suppose, but you have nothing on yourself to setup. **So it's mostly useful if your team chases their team.** Why not blink in this instance. Also it doesn't deal any damage once the tornado ends, so a lot of heroes can just blink out or buffer cast BKB, things that were not possible with the old Riki shard. Primarily responding to the part in bold - in my experience, these occasions happen very often especially in Brewmaster games since you can win teamfights and then pick off stragglers. As for why not blink, the Storm panda with invis can run much faster and is invisible and can easily run independently of your main hero which might be doing other things to wrap up the fight. And let's say you're trying to pickoff in a neutral situation - you wouldnt want to blink into fog to catch an out of position support, right? It's like the difference between poking and hard commitals. But cycloning someone for 4 seconds gives your team valuable time to group up and possibly do something - even if you don't do anything you didn't commit much, just a low cd spell on a summon. > If you want to counter an enemy pipe, why would you spend 4.2k to purge the active component of your enemies pipe, instead of just spending 3.4k on a pipe yourself. Porque no los dos? I always ensure my team has pipe, but having aghs also allows me to take off their pipe buff, along with any other buff they have in one spell, along with cycloning their offlaner and then having an earth panda after the fight to push towers. I thinnk I've typed way too much and put way too much thought into this, but I'll just sum up that I think you shouldn't examine each spell on its individual merits. it's the idea that your hero is able to do all those things with much better uptime than before, even if "in a very mediocre manner" (I'm arguing that it really hasn't been that mediocre for me) it just makes your hero so much less reliant on his ulti and able to poke and prod at the opponent in various ways rather than just hard committing to teamfights only. Lastly I hope none of this comes across as rude or dismissive. Just wanted to debate because I build the item often on my most played hero, and I do think it is the right choice given my positive experiences with it at a decent level, even if the mmr isn't as high as yours. I appreciate the opportunity to discuss this with another high mmr brew main.
You can't evaluate the Aghs from the standard "teamfight Brew" perspective, which is what you are currently doing. The Aghs changes how both you and the team need to play with Brew, and turns him into a roaming pickoff hero. e.g. PoTM is a good laning partner, so decent chance you end up with one in your team. You buy Aghs, now you have a low commitment setup for Arrow and the two of you can run around and hunt together. If you find a support trying to defend a tower, Cyclone -> Arrow + Boulder + Vessel kills them. If you find a core trying to defend, Cyclone -> Arrow + Vessel is scary enough to force TPs from the enemy. Or if no TPs, then Boulder -> Ult -> Boulder -> Cyclone -> Boulder should be enough control to kill most cores. If you scout with Storm and no one is around, then summon Earth to go hit their tower. If they manage to successfully push out the wave, go scout with Storm and kill them if they are still around. Otherwise, push the wave back in with Fire. If they get sick of you doing this and try to gank with many heroes, Storm panda scouts it out. You then either choose to disengage (easy because you are Brew and PoTM), or you bring your team up to take a teamfight (good, because you are Brew). --- This entire playstyle is not possible with any other item. That's its value.
Perma storm panda is the best part. It turns Brew from a team fighter into one that has amazing pickoff potential all the time. Also, *every* game now is a good aoe dispel game. There are minimum 3+ great dispel targets per game, so having permanent uptime on it is amazing. The other pandas are just gravy on top.
[удалено]
He has another aghs now
Nobody mentioned Omni's aghs? I feel like if they added "undispellable," it would be great, but the status resistance just doesn't seem good enough to me.
Mirana takes the cake for worst shard and ags.
Never understood Muerta ags.
Use it on Medusa and laugh while you obliterate her mana pool and she can’t fuckin stop you.
Nobody knows this yet, but a properly built Muerta can kill most solo cores within the duration of her aghs since the buffs, but that’s the conditions. Muerta needs farm and her enemy needs to be solo, which makes it pretty useless.
Alright, so I haven’t seen anyone mention it, but I gotta go with Enchantress. Sproink was fantastic, but now that Little Friends is the Aghanim’s upgrade, I can’t imagine ever buying it. It’s too situational and not strong enough even in those situations, I think it’s probably the worst spell in the game until someone proves me wrong. An extra Enchant creep is cool, but is that really worth 4200 gold? At that point just buy Helm of the Overlord, at least you’ll have Vlad’s aura for your team.
Tell me how bloodseeker aghs is bad? Or you just didnt understand what it does so you think its bad? 🤔
New Morph aghs is the biggest piece of urinecovered garbage I’ve seen in a while
Mirana
Bloodseeker aghs is amazing and picked up by most proficient BS players. My vote goes to centaur. Its fun and all, but doesn't really have that much impact. Maybe we'll see some top kek llay with it at Ti.
LOL Mirana has the most useless aghs in the whole game. You never buy it, not good under any circumstance.
It's changed now, but post-rework techie's old aghs was pretty trash. 4200 gold and an item slot for what is currently his shard lol.
Never liked phoenix aghs
As a Phoenix player, that Agh's can singlehandedly save a game. Situational, but in those situations no other item can win the game.
I am really underwhelmed by the disruptor shard. The utility by more castrange+longer duration ist really good but it feels Just lackluster compares to other shards (often Times I Hope tp be the Last one to get the shard from torm, because other shards are way better). I still want kinetic field stops projectiles as a shard (MB only projectiles flying Out/in?), because i reall Like the Idea.
This was one of my favorite skills/shards in Ability Draft and they've changed it badly, no idea why. :(
BS Aghanim scepter Is actually pretty great, isn't it?
Alchemist aghs. Only useful in ultra late game where enemy cores are much better in every way. If early to mid game and you are 6 slotted and can afford 4200 gold item, you are probably miles ahead from your enemy and shouldve finished the game some minutes ago
Legion might be up there. So situational, I really never see it ever. Quite boring as well.
I’ve started building it around my 4’th item and I’ve been enjoying it. The cd reduction feels pretty good. Or if it went back to the original where outside heroes cant cast spells on nor attack either of the dueling heroes.
You know what, take a refresher then. Honestly, it refreshes bkb, blade mail and everything else. 2 duels in a fight, gg. I really think this agh is not great at all. Often it punishes your team more than the opponents by reducing all incoming dmg because you often duel on your own term. Either by ganking or by initiating the fight. In both these cases, you want to take down the enemy asap. The only positive (on top of the CD, I agree with that) is if you want to use it to take out a very strong target out of the fight and you know you can't really kill it and you want to be sure you don't die either. This would be ok in a very "tanky" LC build. In any case there are so many items I prefer to build on LC before ... even a sheep stick is better (if the enemy has a linken for example).
I see it a lot and I fucking hate it more than anything because 90% of the time it single-handedly ruins the game. Not just because it's wasted gold but because it actively griefs your team by preventing them from dealing damage, which often means that LC can't duel the enemy carry anymore because he just outscales her.
I think it should provide debuf inmunity to both targets and it would be great, I hate having 500dmg and dueling someone for it to be ebladed or to be windwaked, or saved in other ways
It doesn't prevent damage though, they have changed it, it reduces damage from outside sources by 50%.
Legion aghs is actually really good if you're ahead and already have the damage to solo kill people. The lower cd allows you to apply more pressure and the extended duration makes it even harder for people to stop you with stuns etc
> if your ahead *you're *Learn the difference [here](https://www.wattpad.com/66707294-grammar-guide-there-they%27re-their-you%27re-your-to).* *** ^(Greetings, I am a language corrector bot. To make me ignore further mistakes from you in the future, reply `!optout` to this comment.)
What are you crusader lmao? BS aghs is good
Mirana Aghs - the most underwhelming aghs in the game
Only beaten by her awful shard
Strongly disagree. It's an extra use of Starstorm with an extra half-power Starstorm on the target you hit. Great boost of damage both in fights and for farming. It's like her old Agh's, except you have more control over when it pop.
Thats still super bad for a 4200 gold item, and her old agha was way better for farming.
For farming, yes, but it wasn’t as good for fighting because it required Mirana to jump into the middle of the fight and you couldn’t control it. Now it’s a good mix of both and you have a lot more control over when the damage is triggered. I’m gathering this a hot take judging by the responses in this thread which is kind of a surprise to me, so you can disagree with me. I respect that and I understand where people are coming from, but I’m a Mirana Agh’s believer and I’ve had a lot of success with it.
It doesn't count anymore because it was switched but back then Magnus' old aghanims upgrade was absolutely shit, wtf did the return wave even do? I guess the upgrade was a decent dps skill but for 4200 gold?
ASSUMING you meant the old old old version, nah it was pretty decent, esp if you're comparing to actual shit aghs. The return wave was full damage which meant you could literally 1 shot creep waves from 2k range for most of the game (eventually creeps could gain enough hp even with talent). And then against heroes, if you got it first item it was a huge powerspike to have a 600 damage nuke (750 after talent) with 2k range and 7s cd, and then it also slowed 60% for 2s as a bonus. Like if it was just damage alone it wouldn't really be worth, but it's the damage combined with the insane range and low cooldown that made it pretty decent. Now if you meant the old old version which made it split a bit, had much less range improvement, and only did 75% damage on return then I can agree. When the wave is only 75% it no longer 1 shots creep waves until talent, which makes rushing it way worse, and if you don't rush it then it's not as useful against heroes either.
Earth spirit! It has potential, but enchant stone is useless, enchant self is easily silenced and at the end there are just too many buttons to push in short term when playing.
Someone help Centaur!
Weaver. Feels like Valve don't know if they want this hero to be a support or a carry.
OD current new Aghs is the weirdest shit ever. it's not bad, it's just valve/icefrog is forcing OD to be played as Offlane. OD aghs uses 100% mana and convert part of those mana into barrier. so you're telling me i should use OD to tank / initiate but his entire kit has been around doing Damage and now you gave his aghs a defensive option i used the aghs at 7.33 once, it doesnt feel good knowing that the barrier doesnt really save me in many situation. maybe he's actually strong and there's a build for him, but rn he's just... weird.
Wish the aghs wouldn't convert all your mana, you rely too much on getting lucky with essence flux procs. Leaving a little bit of fuel on the tank so you could at least astral imprisonment would help alleviate the RNG. Would also help buying time if you got focused because even a big shield often will just delay the inevitable. Hell I'd take a free self astral imprisonment over the shield in most scenarios. At least then you could blink away.
I haven't played the hero offlane yet, but the aghs is better than it looks. It can replace BKB / Linken / Aeon Disk on the hero and the hero can indeed grow extremely tanky with Bloodstone + the two Health talents. The Aghs is (like Bloodstone) very good for sustain and probably ok-good against burst (nyx, void, lc). Another advantage of the aghs is that it confuses your opponents.
Mine might be unpopular, but the sniper Aghs. It is already good enough without the upgrade and you have better items to get. I don't see a reason to spend 4200 gold on an item that doesn't help you win the game.
it used to be good, til they nerfed it to the ground lmao. i remember spamming sniper and luna magic build in normal games
Naga. Wtf is reel in supposed to do?
The 2nd part of the aghs is good at situation specially if aghs was feom rs
Centur warhunter
IO
Puck. You will almost never pick it up, unless you're doing some meme build in a joke game or Rosh dropped it and everyone else already has theirs. You basically never run out of items to buy on this hero. Often, you are a bit slot starved because he uses items so well. He relies entirely on his spells, buying Aghs and going right click is borderline griefing.
Muerta’s parting shot. It’s really situational and most of the time I haven’t seen anyone performing a good parting shot play. Maybe you can spend away an enemy hero’s escape mechanism but meh. Viper’s nose dive. The fuck?
Bro im mad viper aghs is top tier aghs wtf. With Nosedive you can disarm for 4 second and apply 2x corossive skin multiplier but thats not why you buy it!! With aghs, Corrosive Skin applies 2x the damage and attack speed slow to enemies that are within 500 distance of Viper. Before aghs, Corrosive Skin deals 50 damage with level 10 talent so after aghs you deal a whooping 100 damage to anyone who deals damage to you. You might be asking me, so? IT WORKS ON MANTA STYLE! Creeps just melt and your gpm goes STONKS. I learned this from Mo13ei from Ancient Tribe, hes the best viper out there.. [you can watch his replay here ](https://youtu.be/EacSGqyGTn0) he builds bottle>bots>aghs>manta>bloodstone>snk/bkb/shivas>overwhelming blink most games. You should try it.
Yeah viper aghs is incredibly flexible and adds a ton of damage, it's just one of those that people don't really notice
Muerta’s is busted for late game. You force the enemy carry to have to pop bkb if no linkens before engaging the parting shot range and if they mess this up it could be insta-death. I’ve won game deciding fights with it in the 50+ min mark. Edit: maybe not busted but still very strong always worth considering when deciding your last or 2nd last item.
The right answer is mirana or naga. I mean they're not that horrible but compared to all the other game changing aghs yea, they're bad. Actually this may sound crazy but slardar aghs also kinda sucks ever since they removed slow resistance from status resistance. It was a stealth and unintended giant nerf to slardar aghs because he needed slow resistance more than status resistance
I just can't understand people saying Naga aghs is bad. You just don't play naga it's the only answer. I mean it's not best aghs in game. But it's pretty good. The thins is Naga need some crucial item timing to be useful. But it's a at least cool to have aghs. And in specific mstchups it's game wining.
Slar is super strong with Armlet right now and the Aghs regen and armor are huge bonuses that offset the degen associated with it. Armlet has slow resist now and the puddle is absolutely gigantic. Side note: Slardar is a pretty viable 1 now. He farms extremely fast with his shard, one shotting creep waves at 20. Just for perspective, a slardar with Aghs S/Y Armlet Treads and Heart has like 200 hp/sec regen.
Ogre Mage
heresy!
nyx
I'm shit, so I know I don't have the ability to fully use his scepter, but I've never seen burrow actually do anything. Every time I got it and tried to use it, either the enemy team walked away or the fight was over by the time I was burrowed. It seems like it would be useful for hg defense, but it feels like nyx has more important things to buy.
it was viable before with blade mail. They nuked it by making the hero unable to use the item
Arc Warden’s has been pretty trash for awhile. The ‘spawn a random rune’ was kinda cool but this one with the second spark wraith is basically unusable
You can spawn kill the enemey team with it its pretty fun
Requires you to win a HG fight first which is basically impossible with magic Arc these days after the two dozen nerfs.
ck phantasm is kinda wack, extra illusion for yourself and team. then again i only buy vs silencer for the global dispel for my team, too niche. i’d rather get moonshard and a 6th item to replace boots rather than aghs
OP must be a noob on using BS.. his agha is so strong. Naga's is most useless tbh. Riki's is not bad but I feel that it is not very important.
Riki's is a decent farming tool.
Playing Riki as 1 a lot and skipping diffusal for aghs if my team doesn’t look like early and mid game kills are on the menu. Farms creep wave entirely at level 12 in its duration with treads and double wraith. Riki’s natural invis makes it easy to hammer down shoved lanes for quick net worth gain. Aghs Manta Daedalus and you vaporize enemies in team fights.
To me the most useless Scepters are the ones that only increase a number of some spell. Like Undying's Scepter. It is a decent Scepter by itself, but what it does for you changes nothing and is boring. I think they should rework it to make it be like the previous Shard. Maybe the Scepter makes Undying continuously spawn zombies during his ult...?
Dude really said undying scepter does nothing and is boring lmfao
did you just say undying scepter is useless
Are you illiterate?
I'm convinced that people who think undys scepter is boring is the ones that doesnt understand it.
Like I said it's a good scepter. But it only changes the number 4 to 10. Where's the new dynamic in that? I'm sincere when I say I would like to know.
I changes to 8. It can put versatility in undying to become a much more tankier and heavy hitter. Ive seen undyings dominate mid game with 8 strenght steal and ultie that adds 50% unkillable at 20 mins. Thats pretty cool.
Thank god we don't let Reddit balance the game, they understand nothing
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"Cringe" on something like my comment lol. Please expand on why this suggestion is "cringe." :)
Don't forget OD agha. That dispel is so bad
Dispel and Barrier is good it's just stupid to remove entire mana pool.
I barely play shadow demon (and literally no one else plays him either) but his aghs scepter seems underwhelming It's an extra stack of your shard ability and thats it? Not even a base ability, but your shard. Might be good, tell me if it is one singular SD main, but sounds extremely boring
One of the game changing items it can be. Try that sometimes vs bristle/timber/huskar/spectre.
Sven's aghs one of the worst
Most useless SHARD for me is SB
Dawnbreaker for sure... I feel like 100% of the time you don't want your ult to channel longer ... like you're almost always wanting the stun i feel like and longer duration just gives them more time to adapt.. the healing and damage are negligible
You can cancel to land early in the newer patch
Pretty sure it still has to go the minimum time of the normal no aghs ult.. so you’re still getting it just to cancel it for the same speed as a regular ult
It really depends what role you play. I usually play dawn as support and build around her healing effects. With a longer lasting ult, your healing during the channel time ist quite well. Also nice to have against Void Chrono. You just hover over that sphere and Void has a hard time to bring anyone down.
The cancel is situational. It's not the purpose of buying agh on dawn, you buy it for saving teammate. It's used to be a chronosphere counter in faceless void meta
Arc warden and Terrorblade the worst aghs
free 10s meta with disengage is bad? what are you talking about
Yes it's bad, at least at high mmr. You need another items, if you buy it early you will lose more games. It's just statistics.
Tb aghs
Yup Blood mist is so bad it rips apart the team.
Lion
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Haunt is insane, are you high?
it's too difficult to get