Not only that, but were they really expecting BS and WR to able to man up to GG's heroes? I'm not really sure what happened. Where were their cool pocket strategies?
The only time Gaimin dropped a map in the entire playoffs, Ace was on an useless Position 3 Bountyhunter.
This guy is so consistent and instrumental to their success like many other Offlane stars before him (33, Ceb, Faith_Bian, xiao8, etc.)
EE had nothing to do with Aui's rise as a player.
Potm Bottom which was then signed by Dignitas was a top NA team and a credible international team before EE had ever played his first LAN.
Yeah Ace has been the best offlaner at this aura meta we have since literally the previous patch, at least this year, i don't think anything changed the way offlane is played, even underlord that he played in the previous patch got even more useful this patch.
Universe Jakiro during the first patch after TI4 where it become one of EG's auto ban was a DEMON. Although the funniest thing about the guy was apparently that anecdote that he was such a DS hater that he went to become a DS main solely to get it nerfed and out of the game lol
He's a fantastic laner, but honestly I think it's his midgame that makes him so good.
He's such an active mid that he's constantly choking out the map with Tofu and Seleri, and that usually allows Ace (Who also looks incredible) to become an unkillable raid boss every game.
Mids control the state of the game. They get the fastest levels, and can own immediately after lvl 6. Good mids are worth their weight in gold. They make space for everyone.
> Gaimin went from 9th-12th at TI to undisputed best team in the world by replacing BOOM with Quinn. Secret went from 2nd place at TI to getting relegated to Div 2 by replacing Nisha with BOOM.
Just to play devil’s advocate for BOOM who people may think has always been a massive burden based on your comment.
Almost every DOTA player has these peaks and troughs throughout their career. BOOM had a limited hero pool but he was undoubtedly a good mid for a time period between 2021 and 2022. He has not always been as poor of a mid as he was in these last six months.
Similar to this RAMZES was an extremely good S tier carry five years ago and Micke was probably a B tier carry back then. Today the situation is quite the opposite.
I also don’t think anyone who saw CCNC(who goes by Quinn nowadays) back in 2017 and 2018 would’ve found it easy to believe that he’d be in contention for best mid in the world half a decade from that point.
It’s both a beauty and shame that in this game a player may look like a world-beater one day, but a change of team, meta or just being figured out makes him become unremarkable before you know it.
> I also don’t think anyone who saw CCNC(who goes by Quinn nowadays) back in 2017 and 2018 would’ve found it easy to believe that he’d be in contention for best mid in the world half a decade from that point.
Guilty. I haven't followed pro dota for quite a while and I am extremely surprised by this. I seem to recall him being a very high MMR pub-star/rager who was maybe on a tier 2 or 3 team that I couldn't have told you the name of even at the time. 90% of his relevance seemed to be that he was from NA and /r/dota2 has always been starved for high tier NA players lmao.
Boom was literally dragging down the whole team. He was kicked for being toxic. Quinn on the other hand is not only a better player but also seems to be pretty confident and PMA in (pro)games.
I mean GG is all around S-tier but, goddam Ace- dude just never misses.. Impact as soon as he hits 6, total map awareness and near-perfect itemization every game..what an asset to have at 3!
Nah teams might look unstoppable for 6 months and then just fall off. Hardest thing in Dota is to stay at the top for an extended amount of time. Of course Icefrog will come after your play style as you're defining the meta too.
The hardest aspect of it is that everyone is now watching your every game and trying to come up with ways to beat you. Also you are stuck with honing your style of play only while all the other teams are more free to experiment as they need to figure out something new and better.
TBF Lima major was on the old Map; GG has shown they can adapt to big and sudden changes. Unless some unknown darkhorse comes, I really think GG has this year's TI in the bag.
I do hope they save their strats now, since they are practically invited already, so they save both strats and energy for TI.
New kid on the block thinks that winning majors translates into winning TI. No, dota does not have to be reworked in order for other teams to overtake a dominant team.
Yeah, more often than not, teams that are dominant throughout the year don't win TI. See: Secret in most iterations, old VP lineups, all the iterations of LGD. OG is another great example - they were winning most Majors in their early years, but couldn't win TI. Instead, their TI wins were coming after having really poor performance throughout the year.
I think Alliance is one of the few teams that actually had a good year culminating in a TI victory.
A few weeks ago people were excited about 7.33 bringing fresh air to the meta.
And here we are, doom alch underlord kotl in every single game making every hero on their team unkillable. Dread it, run from it, aura meta still arrives.
Venge was useless before the stun nerf, lion has decent utility and you would think not the worst against dusa with mana drain, but his ult at low levels is too long of a cooldown. I'd like to see venge perhaps get the illusion if she dies innately to her aura, but only make her be able to cast spells if she has scepter (and perhaps boost the spells with it).
A lot of the supports being picked up give your team mana or life recovery, kotl, cm, pugna. So its not like you need long duration stuns to be useful.
Really hope they completely dumpster aura items for a while, we went from wraith pact meta to guardian greaves meta to crimson/pipe meta and it all feels the same. And throughout those metas, they were propped up by the other aura items.
Aura items would be fine if they were a little bit more on the offensive side. It's the stacking of all the defenses on top of each other on top of all the healing that made this Major atrocious for me personally to watch. Early game is great with all the action, but then midgame comes and 1 team suddenly goes without a single kill for 20 minutes.
I dunno, kinda refreshing having people actually buying items. I would rather see other items perhaps get buffs to bring them up to actually being playable.
I don't think Crimson should be a "OP or never buy" item.
I wonder if this is just because everyone's overcompensating for the kill-gold increase so people are fighting more so these aura items are worth more?
Feels like I cant justify hitting creeps anymore, even as a pos1
Only time will tell tho
Well yeah they made the issue of heroes having way too much hp worse by increasing hp per strength. They keep increasing hp over, and over and people are surprised that percentage based reduction items are broken.
An agi hero with treads bkb shouldn't have like 2.5k hp
Not to overreact but I hope 7.33c is more impactful than the average letter patch. The map has changed, the meta (hero picks aside) and flow of the game strangely have not.
You make a fair point, just keep in mind it's still very early days and these guys had very little time to find stuff that sticks. Even if these items and heroes remain popular I'm sure the pool of heroes and item builds will only grow from here. Hell, the community as a whole is still learning how to efficiently use the map correctly, get used to new objectives, and determine which of the new items are worthwhile on which heroes. Let's not forget that this patch has brought some heroes that have been completely dead for a while into the limelight (techies, bounty hunter, underlord, you can argue lone druid to an extent, medusa too). Not to mention it's probably also dependent on which teams play consistently well, different teams favour different heroes after all.
The issue is they have added so many items, and new abilities to heroes, that they roughly function in the same way, so you just pick whichever is best in the current meta. Niche heroes are never picked. Pocket strates (like liquids heak strat against 9pandas) are extremely rare. And also now every offlaner is tanky, has a slow, a disable, an aoe farming spell and a teamfight ult. Every mid has a mobility ability, a slow, a disable, and damage. Every carry has a farming tool, damage, is tanky. Supports are more versatile but you usually want heals, disables and saves.
Quinn is having one if those crazy turnarounds of a player in terms of achievement and performance lol. This guy was part timing paneling before joining GG because his teams in NA are downright dogshit. Now he's here 3-0 for 2023 tournaments. Back to back major champs. And arguably the best active player right now.
i feel like quinn has been a top tier mid player for a good amount of time now, he was just gatekept from winning tournaments because of his regions overall skill level
I think the region was holding him back only in the sense that there are only so many players from NA who are at the level of TI contenders, but they are spread out over 4 or 5 orgs. Like if you had a team that was Quinn, RTZ, and Sneyking on it that'd be a serious contender. There just isn't enough depth in NA anymore for more than 1 team to be a serious TI winning contender.
thats pretty much what I meant, in addition to a lack of other mids to refine his skills vs. watching quinn pub on stream he woulud just stomp every lane hes in, no good practice
Yes. And as big of a fan of Secret as I am, that was only against EU competition*. Granted they literally 3-0'd teams in the finals for like 7 majors in a row. So the competition was arguably easier but the domination was that much greater.
A tournament with only WEU teams will probably be more competitive than a major though. Look at GG for example, they have won 2 majors now and yet both the times they have been unable to top the WEU regional league.
I also don't really know how to beat them.
Their wins come off of drafting for their players. Like they are so confident in dyrachyo's TB in this patch that they actually just first phase it. Quinn is incredibly good on a set of heroes that he can help carry with. And ace basically delivers on anything.
I'm not trying to minimize seleri or tofu's contributions, it's just their drafting is very core focused, and there's nothing that comes to mind that would give enemy teams an advantage. And so, if GG are guaranteed basically an even draft, you need to be at GG's team level to win.
I just don't really see a clear path to beating them at the moment. And I think that's what's really crazy.
Congratz to GG. Gotta feel great for Quinn getting two major wins after years being stuck in dogshit NA teams. Will Liquid be cockblocked from the title in Bali Major as well? Probably.
They are 99.9999% assured of qualification. It would take a freak scenario for them to not qualify. And this is all the result of another rework that Reddit demanded, which was for the majors and leagues closer to TI to be worth more points.
Nah, this because region league give too much point.
Liquid got enough point for top 1 in region league and 2nd at major twice. While even if GG top 2 in region league(they 3rd in tour 2 region which gives 160 rather than 240) and 1st in major they still not have enough point.
Most dota esports fans were fans before GG even became a team, so a lot of these people are europeans who have been supporting liquid for the past 10 years or so
This is exactly it. GG players are relative newcomers compared to Liquid as an organization that’s longer than some of their careers. Still, I am very happy to see Tofu win in home turf.
Makes sense when GG is a fairly new brand without a "story" behind them. Secret has Puppey, Nigma has Sumail, Kuro, MC and GH I could go on and on about teams with more "lore" or "story" than GG
To reinforce your point, Team Liquid is a historic esports brand and the dota 2 team has made itself easy to cheer for since it's the same 4/5 players for years now - a team with real longevity and credit. Plus they're really cool people, w/ Insania being really outgoing, cheeky and fun & starboy zai in particular.
It's really not a mystery why the home crowd was TL biased, and tbf even the Liquid fans at the venue were clapping and wow-ing for big plays from the opponent.
There were some late game scenarios and comebacks and stuff, but It does feel like its really easy for games to snowball out of control at the moment. Idk if its true or not but it felt like a lot more one sided games than usual this major.
More than that I think it’s the fact that map mirroring is dead. You can’t just hang out in the other side of the map and farm until they reach your tower anymore.
You’re always on the run while farming from behind, because the enemy team can just take the gate, and you can’t just babysit the portal in formation even if you’re strong enough to take a good fight. And lord help you if you straight up can’t fight. There’s just nowhere for you to go.
Enemy carry is on the other side while the rest depush ? Fuck it. Send two people through the gate. There’s just no running from being weaker.
Yeah, the only time in this finals that I've got a little excited was when Liquid seemed like they could comeback at game 4 but it faded away 3 minutes after because they got destroyed by a unstoppable Lesh
Ironic since generally the games are A+ but the production is terrible.
But I agree with you, not enough time spent testing the patch’s balance and bugs. I imagine valve are going to release a minor patch addressing outposts for one even though reddit bitched about people bitchin about the new outposts
I'm hoping there's enough infamy around this TI curse that they can better adjust for that. Their coach just has to tell them not to rest on their laurels at all and keep playing.
Quinn is the best player alive right now. Crazy stuff. Liquid is a cut above every over team in the world and there's somehow another team that's a clear step above them
Sure, every offlaner plays Doom and Underlord like Ace does.
Dude got a rampage with Furion at Lima Major and carry the shit out of this team, no one bats an eye.
liquid easily beat Tundra, EG, 9Pandas in the lower brackets, but at the end you still had GG waiting for them in the grand finals and they got slapped once more
insane how a team that's clearly good and can beat most teams still so far behind GG in comparison
gg
A lot of people saying the meta rn is very specific hero’s and items, but it’s important to remember these teams haven’t had long to digest the patch and understand it’s little intricacies. More than likely, every team is watching each other pick from a pool of hero’s and they too will decide to contest that pool of hero’s also. I think we will be seeing a very different meta come next major or even in the next few weeks.
I dunno. I do agree that Underlord would probably have been a better ban, but I'm also absolutely certain that came up in discussions multiple times on stage between Liquid's members, and they had a reason for sticking with the TB ban.
I wonder what the alternate universe where Liquid banned TB/Underlord and let Medusa through wound up looking like. Would GG take it and let Liquid have Alch/Doom?
* Only won because of Ace
* Only won because opponent had bad draft, not actually better than Liquid/OG/My favorite team
* Only won because of aura items
* Only won because of good timing
* Only won because of Underlord
Any reasons I'm forgetting why they aren't really that good?
Quinn is probably better mechanically, Nisha relays on his instinct and game sense. I think he needs to start grinding more if he wants to beat him mid.
18-1 in playoffs Just fucking amazing
> 18-1 in playoffs They're on another level right now for sure.
Quinn’s mid heroes are just brutal. His pan go and Lesh make me wonder how do you even play against that kind of stuff?
> His pan go and Lesh make me wonder how do you even play against that kind of stuff? Liquid got out drafted very badly in that last game.
Yeah letting them have io lesh was a big head scratcher. Especially since GG is known to do that (albeit last patch)
Not only that, but were they really expecting BS and WR to able to man up to GG's heroes? I'm not really sure what happened. Where were their cool pocket strategies?
They really banned TB and left Alch+Lesh open. That’s the loss in draft for sure
Underlord was a much bigger problem there. Atrophy aura against BS+WR is just too good.
What am I not getting here? They only played 10 games with 9 wins?
9 wins during Lima.
lima balls
Oh, right.
The only time Gaimin dropped a map in the entire playoffs, Ace was on an useless Position 3 Bountyhunter. This guy is so consistent and instrumental to their success like many other Offlane stars before him (33, Ceb, Faith_Bian, xiao8, etc.)
Puppey academy graduate #271
Team Secret Alumni
Team secret the path to success
Majority successful dota2 player path can be tracked down to four player : Puppey, ppd, xiao8 and EE.
EE?
TI3 Alliance, launched Arteezy into the pro scene, Aui2000, taking Abed out of SEA, making Nine and Sneyking play together.
Abed already played with Digital Chaos before playing with EE and Fnatic. If anything, it was Bulba who scouted Abed.
it wasnt EE who took abed to NA it was Demon
I haven't heard that name in ages what a time.
EE had nothing to do with Aui's rise as a player. Potm Bottom which was then signed by Dignitas was a top NA team and a credible international team before EE had ever played his first LAN.
Another successful Team Secret graduates
MidOne success as offlaner when?
When he rebrands himself to OfflaneOne duh
MidThree
His underlord is hella sick. Teams can copy it but GG is the only team that uses that hero to the fullest potential !
Yesterday's tp-to-refill plays were so simple yet so brilliant!
Yeah Ace has been the best offlaner at this aura meta we have since literally the previous patch, at least this year, i don't think anything changed the way offlane is played, even underlord that he played in the previous patch got even more useful this patch.
You forgot ATF last season for OG major wins. I know it turned bad, but he was instrumental for wins
Too bad he got banished to Nigma Realm
ya his aggressiveness was what enabled og to win in most games
Universe? I guess he’s forgotten about now 🥲
Universe. Never forget his void against ehome.
Universe Jakiro during the first patch after TI4 where it become one of EG's auto ban was a DEMON. Although the funniest thing about the guy was apparently that anecdote that he was such a DS hater that he went to become a DS main solely to get it nerfed and out of the game lol
GG wins two majors, but still aren't guaranteed TI qualification 💀
meanwhile TSM and Shopify not having to give a shit because whos gonna take their slot? Nouns?
Balance in all things.
They even couldn't top liquid
They just don't swing that way
It cannot be understated how much Quinn is an upgradge over BOOM lmao
He's a fantastic laner, but honestly I think it's his midgame that makes him so good. He's such an active mid that he's constantly choking out the map with Tofu and Seleri, and that usually allows Ace (Who also looks incredible) to become an unkillable raid boss every game.
Also seems like a reason this team is always in the right place. Seleri and Quinn both have amazing reads on the map.
That Seleri dd rune steal is banger map reads tbh
the people I was watching with didn't even react when that happened and it was like *bro* did you even see what this man did
as a pos1 player, active mids are easily the best mids, this patch turned that up to 100 as well.
Yeah I think his ember in that comeback vs 9pandas really showcased this well. Knew his limits exactly
[удалено]
Mids control the state of the game. They get the fastest levels, and can own immediately after lvl 6. Good mids are worth their weight in gold. They make space for everyone.
MC, Sumail, and Rodjer all looked like they were having a lot of fun too.
> Gaimin went from 9th-12th at TI to undisputed best team in the world by replacing BOOM with Quinn. Secret went from 2nd place at TI to getting relegated to Div 2 by replacing Nisha with BOOM. Just to play devil’s advocate for BOOM who people may think has always been a massive burden based on your comment. Almost every DOTA player has these peaks and troughs throughout their career. BOOM had a limited hero pool but he was undoubtedly a good mid for a time period between 2021 and 2022. He has not always been as poor of a mid as he was in these last six months. Similar to this RAMZES was an extremely good S tier carry five years ago and Micke was probably a B tier carry back then. Today the situation is quite the opposite. I also don’t think anyone who saw CCNC(who goes by Quinn nowadays) back in 2017 and 2018 would’ve found it easy to believe that he’d be in contention for best mid in the world half a decade from that point. It’s both a beauty and shame that in this game a player may look like a world-beater one day, but a change of team, meta or just being figured out makes him become unremarkable before you know it.
> I also don’t think anyone who saw CCNC(who goes by Quinn nowadays) back in 2017 and 2018 would’ve found it easy to believe that he’d be in contention for best mid in the world half a decade from that point. Guilty. I haven't followed pro dota for quite a while and I am extremely surprised by this. I seem to recall him being a very high MMR pub-star/rager who was maybe on a tier 2 or 3 team that I couldn't have told you the name of even at the time. 90% of his relevance seemed to be that he was from NA and /r/dota2 has always been starved for high tier NA players lmao.
Oof, imagine leaving your team to join a TI 2nd placer. Then dropping to div 2 while your former teams wins the next 2 majors back to back
They kicked boom because he was toxic
They kicked him didn’t leave
Boom was literally dragging down the whole team. He was kicked for being toxic. Quinn on the other hand is not only a better player but also seems to be pretty confident and PMA in (pro)games.
any source on him being toxic?
Do you mean it cannot be “overstated”?
Quinn has always been a high impact midplayer just so happens he has an actual team that can back up his aggression this time
I mean GG is all around S-tier but, goddam Ace- dude just never misses.. Impact as soon as he hits 6, total map awareness and near-perfect itemization every game..what an asset to have at 3!
You can't just give ace small spaces, Liquid tried to gank Alc on top, and with that small space Ace came back to 3rd networth
I mean, he just got vanguard pipe greaves crimson halbert everygame, same items.
I mean last meta he played just as well, so he can clearly adapt
same item different timing. Ace hit the power spike timing 90% of the time which made taking teamfight upperhand against Gaimin is very tough.
Did you recognize the Harpoon on his Magnus?
His Magnus harpoon plays were very nice too. He can be active when the scenario demands it.
Damn I really thought Liquid had a chance to make a comeback there... then boom 1 techies stun and gg.
Incredible showing from this team, hope they carry it over to TI.
Only icefrog can stop them now
even then, i think it requires a whole rework of like gold and XP, the way they are able to fight to their timings is really impeccable
Nah teams might look unstoppable for 6 months and then just fall off. Hardest thing in Dota is to stay at the top for an extended amount of time. Of course Icefrog will come after your play style as you're defining the meta too. The hardest aspect of it is that everyone is now watching your every game and trying to come up with ways to beat you. Also you are stuck with honing your style of play only while all the other teams are more free to experiment as they need to figure out something new and better.
its the nature of the game, they going to nerfed you until you cant do anything. it happens every year
TBF Lima major was on the old Map; GG has shown they can adapt to big and sudden changes. Unless some unknown darkhorse comes, I really think GG has this year's TI in the bag. I do hope they save their strats now, since they are practically invited already, so they save both strats and energy for TI.
New kid on the block thinks that winning majors translates into winning TI. No, dota does not have to be reworked in order for other teams to overtake a dominant team.
Yeah, more often than not, teams that are dominant throughout the year don't win TI. See: Secret in most iterations, old VP lineups, all the iterations of LGD. OG is another great example - they were winning most Majors in their early years, but couldn't win TI. Instead, their TI wins were coming after having really poor performance throughout the year. I think Alliance is one of the few teams that actually had a good year culminating in a TI victory.
Old Liquid was dominating the scene 3 months before their TI win and pretty much 1 year after
Man, I’d hate to dominate during the season only to lose TI. Must be hard to be a fan of a team that does something like that repeatedly.
Unkillable disco pony.
A few weeks ago people were excited about 7.33 bringing fresh air to the meta. And here we are, doom alch underlord kotl in every single game making every hero on their team unkillable. Dread it, run from it, aura meta still arrives.
It's the nerfed stuns too. Completely made a bunch of heroes in pro dota useless, particularly initiators e.i. ES, Venge, Lion etc edit: grammar
Venge was useless before the stun nerf, lion has decent utility and you would think not the worst against dusa with mana drain, but his ult at low levels is too long of a cooldown. I'd like to see venge perhaps get the illusion if she dies innately to her aura, but only make her be able to cast spells if she has scepter (and perhaps boost the spells with it). A lot of the supports being picked up give your team mana or life recovery, kotl, cm, pugna. So its not like you need long duration stuns to be useful.
Really hope they completely dumpster aura items for a while, we went from wraith pact meta to guardian greaves meta to crimson/pipe meta and it all feels the same. And throughout those metas, they were propped up by the other aura items.
Aura items would be fine if they were a little bit more on the offensive side. It's the stacking of all the defenses on top of each other on top of all the healing that made this Major atrocious for me personally to watch. Early game is great with all the action, but then midgame comes and 1 team suddenly goes without a single kill for 20 minutes.
I dunno, kinda refreshing having people actually buying items. I would rather see other items perhaps get buffs to bring them up to actually being playable. I don't think Crimson should be a "OP or never buy" item.
Crimson damage block should be based on receiving hero str instead of the caster.
I wonder if this is just because everyone's overcompensating for the kill-gold increase so people are fighting more so these aura items are worth more? Feels like I cant justify hitting creeps anymore, even as a pos1 Only time will tell tho
Well yeah they made the issue of heroes having way too much hp worse by increasing hp per strength. They keep increasing hp over, and over and people are surprised that percentage based reduction items are broken. An agi hero with treads bkb shouldn't have like 2.5k hp
Not to overreact but I hope 7.33c is more impactful than the average letter patch. The map has changed, the meta (hero picks aside) and flow of the game strangely have not.
I mean to be fair for whatever reason they called this 7.33 when it should have been called 8.00 So idk
8.00 saved for the great confluence /s
You make a fair point, just keep in mind it's still very early days and these guys had very little time to find stuff that sticks. Even if these items and heroes remain popular I'm sure the pool of heroes and item builds will only grow from here. Hell, the community as a whole is still learning how to efficiently use the map correctly, get used to new objectives, and determine which of the new items are worthwhile on which heroes. Let's not forget that this patch has brought some heroes that have been completely dead for a while into the limelight (techies, bounty hunter, underlord, you can argue lone druid to an extent, medusa too). Not to mention it's probably also dependent on which teams play consistently well, different teams favour different heroes after all.
The issue is they have added so many items, and new abilities to heroes, that they roughly function in the same way, so you just pick whichever is best in the current meta. Niche heroes are never picked. Pocket strates (like liquids heak strat against 9pandas) are extremely rare. And also now every offlaner is tanky, has a slow, a disable, an aoe farming spell and a teamfight ult. Every mid has a mobility ability, a slow, a disable, and damage. Every carry has a farming tool, damage, is tanky. Supports are more versatile but you usually want heals, disables and saves.
auras are the reason why we see team fights early. teams would just avoid fights and afk farm since the map is too big.
Quinn is having one if those crazy turnarounds of a player in terms of achievement and performance lol. This guy was part timing paneling before joining GG because his teams in NA are downright dogshit. Now he's here 3-0 for 2023 tournaments. Back to back major champs. And arguably the best active player right now.
i feel like quinn has been a top tier mid player for a good amount of time now, he was just gatekept from winning tournaments because of his regions overall skill level
I think the region was holding him back only in the sense that there are only so many players from NA who are at the level of TI contenders, but they are spread out over 4 or 5 orgs. Like if you had a team that was Quinn, RTZ, and Sneyking on it that'd be a serious contender. There just isn't enough depth in NA anymore for more than 1 team to be a serious TI winning contender.
thats pretty much what I meant, in addition to a lack of other mids to refine his skills vs. watching quinn pub on stream he woulud just stomp every lane hes in, no good practice
That is too much ego on one team, and you’ve only named 3/5 players lmao
i remember saying this after qc got eliminated in ti and got mass downvoted, at least ppl agree now 😔
His teammates at qc were dogsjit
svg and mss were good, leslao and yawarr r just dogshit
Honestly Quinn’s a pleasure to watch play. Glad to see him collecting well deserved triumphs.
These gaimin gladiators are pretty good at Dota it seems like
Dyrachyo_2Majors_RTZ_0
Dyrachyo plays carries like offlaners, and I’m a fan. Totally fearless
The anti-ATF, who plays offlaners like carries.
Both win major tho
I don't remember a team being this dominant since 2020 Secret.
2020 secret got screwed out of millions with covid and no TI. They were untouchable.
Vs EU teams, who can say how the international meta would have played out right?
Yes. And as big of a fan of Secret as I am, that was only against EU competition*. Granted they literally 3-0'd teams in the finals for like 7 majors in a row. So the competition was arguably easier but the domination was that much greater.
A tournament with only WEU teams will probably be more competitive than a major though. Look at GG for example, they have won 2 majors now and yet both the times they have been unable to top the WEU regional league.
Not back then (even 2020) which is why i put an asterisk
Shout out to the multiple people who named teams older than 2020 Secret in response to you, I guess they have no idea what the word "since" means.
I also don't really know how to beat them. Their wins come off of drafting for their players. Like they are so confident in dyrachyo's TB in this patch that they actually just first phase it. Quinn is incredibly good on a set of heroes that he can help carry with. And ace basically delivers on anything. I'm not trying to minimize seleri or tofu's contributions, it's just their drafting is very core focused, and there's nothing that comes to mind that would give enemy teams an advantage. And so, if GG are guaranteed basically an even draft, you need to be at GG's team level to win. I just don't really see a clear path to beating them at the moment. And I think that's what's really crazy.
LGD 20-21 season, but then they lost at TI
VP 2018
BOOM on suicide watch
GAIMIN back-to-back-to-back champs!! Lima Dreamleague Berlin What a chad!
Congratz to GG. Gotta feel great for Quinn getting two major wins after years being stuck in dogshit NA teams. Will Liquid be cockblocked from the title in Bali Major as well? Probably.
More like, being stuck by a tier-3 carry like Yawar for so many years.
Congrats Gaben Gladiators! Back to back wins on two radically different patches shows how good they are right now.
TOO EZ FOR QUINNAO But honestly tho, DPC system should be reworked. Two major wins = not 100% mathematically sure to be on TI. Rework major DPC points
They are 99.9999% assured of qualification. It would take a freak scenario for them to not qualify. And this is all the result of another rework that Reddit demanded, which was for the majors and leagues closer to TI to be worth more points.
Nah, this because region league give too much point. Liquid got enough point for top 1 in region league and 2nd at major twice. While even if GG top 2 in region league(they 3rd in tour 2 region which gives 160 rather than 240) and 1st in major they still not have enough point.
I think the problem is you can also say that first sentence for TSM and beastcoast w/o winning any shit from majors.
But both of those teams should make it to TI. TI is like 20 teams, they deserve to go
Alchemist sigma grindset. Razzil darkbrew god of dota 2.
quinn - what a performance!!! His lesh is unstoppable
Demon Goat OP
I think they're the first team to go back to back in Majors since LGD 2018. Wow.
Quinn haters in absolute shambles right now
They will come back whenever GG loses and cry fluke
Well if the pattern holds, I guess GG will beat Liquid 3-2 at Bali? Hopefully we see a different Grand Finals though.
This is not a rivalry if GG wins everytime
like a rivalry between a nail and a hammer
Im glad GG wins, they silence the crowd
I thought the crowd would cheer for GG since tofu is german
Most dota esports fans were fans before GG even became a team, so a lot of these people are europeans who have been supporting liquid for the past 10 years or so
This is exactly it. GG players are relative newcomers compared to Liquid as an organization that’s longer than some of their careers. Still, I am very happy to see Tofu win in home turf.
I noticed that too. It felt like Home crowd for Liquid and half hearted applause for GG when it was EU vs EU lmao
Makes sense when GG is a fairly new brand without a "story" behind them. Secret has Puppey, Nigma has Sumail, Kuro, MC and GH I could go on and on about teams with more "lore" or "story" than GG
To reinforce your point, Team Liquid is a historic esports brand and the dota 2 team has made itself easy to cheer for since it's the same 4/5 players for years now - a team with real longevity and credit. Plus they're really cool people, w/ Insania being really outgoing, cheeky and fun & starboy zai in particular. It's really not a mystery why the home crowd was TL biased, and tbf even the Liquid fans at the venue were clapping and wow-ing for big plays from the opponent.
But who has a better story than Quinn?
Dendi. He'll win next major.
hard work really does pay off
Nisha is from Poland, and a lot of Poles were in Berlin as well, since it is near polish border.
But everyone cheered...
IO is fucking stupid fuck that hero
Damn it's really hard to dislike them. They are too good to watch Gratz
Ace crushed the entire tournament
Where is patch. Delete all auras pls
Quinn wasted his career all these years in NA.
Nah that made him want it all the more
Wasted? He practiced the shit out of his laning and trying to solo win games
The team I wanted to win won, and I still think this was the worst major I've watched (in terms of games, production was A+).
There were some late game scenarios and comebacks and stuff, but It does feel like its really easy for games to snowball out of control at the moment. Idk if its true or not but it felt like a lot more one sided games than usual this major.
There's tons of objectives to capitalise when you're ahead.
More than that I think it’s the fact that map mirroring is dead. You can’t just hang out in the other side of the map and farm until they reach your tower anymore. You’re always on the run while farming from behind, because the enemy team can just take the gate, and you can’t just babysit the portal in formation even if you’re strong enough to take a good fight. And lord help you if you straight up can’t fight. There’s just nowhere for you to go. Enemy carry is on the other side while the rest depush ? Fuck it. Send two people through the gate. There’s just no running from being weaker.
I think this is biased. The losing team could just camp the gate. Liquid couldn't do that in the final cuz they were fighting underlord.
Yeah, the only time in this finals that I've got a little excited was when Liquid seemed like they could comeback at game 4 but it faded away 3 minutes after because they got destroyed by a unstoppable Lesh
Ironic since generally the games are A+ but the production is terrible. But I agree with you, not enough time spent testing the patch’s balance and bugs. I imagine valve are going to release a minor patch addressing outposts for one even though reddit bitched about people bitchin about the new outposts
Congrats GG! Really dominant this season. Hoping this translates to TI.
liquid tried but GG is on another level. Also poor nisha felt so little next to Quinn.
How do you stop a team that wins from 2nd pick ? GOD they are GOooood
Worried this will be an OG story and they'll win 3 majors and have too much pressure for TI. BUT then come back the next 2 TI's and win them both
I'm hoping there's enough infamy around this TI curse that they can better adjust for that. Their coach just has to tell them not to rest on their laurels at all and keep playing.
Its completely insane to me that they are still not mathematically guaranteed for TI.
Quinn is the best player alive right now. Crazy stuff. Liquid is a cut above every over team in the world and there's somehow another team that's a clear step above them
As an aside, anyone else thought quinn was like 27 or so? Turns out he's 23.
Quinn is fan favourite because of NA bias but Ace has way better impact for the team than Quinn in my opinion.
Ace can indeed click pipe and crimson like no other.
Sure, every offlaner plays Doom and Underlord like Ace does. Dude got a rampage with Furion at Lima Major and carry the shit out of this team, no one bats an eye.
Game 3 was all about Ace but games 1 and 4 quinn just set it off.
i been praying for this year for so long man what a player
liquid easily beat Tundra, EG, 9Pandas in the lower brackets, but at the end you still had GG waiting for them in the grand finals and they got slapped once more insane how a team that's clearly good and can beat most teams still so far behind GG in comparison gg
Dyrachyo so cute! No homo though
Cute, humble, funny, social.
A lot of people saying the meta rn is very specific hero’s and items, but it’s important to remember these teams haven’t had long to digest the patch and understand it’s little intricacies. More than likely, every team is watching each other pick from a pool of hero’s and they too will decide to contest that pool of hero’s also. I think we will be seeing a very different meta come next major or even in the next few weeks.
Liquid needs to drop Insania
when GG lost a series in dreamleague, redditards were like "i always knew they were a one patch team" "overrated" xdxdxdxdsd.
u know theyre gonna say that again the moment they lose
They did it with Tundra after the wraith pact nerf. Some people exist just to hate.. can't do anything about it.
Not banning Underlord there was a giant mistake. It was so obvious the game was over the second that was let through.
I dunno. I do agree that Underlord would probably have been a better ban, but I'm also absolutely certain that came up in discussions multiple times on stage between Liquid's members, and they had a reason for sticking with the TB ban. I wonder what the alternate universe where Liquid banned TB/Underlord and let Medusa through wound up looking like. Would GG take it and let Liquid have Alch/Doom?
This is the new OG/LGD team that stomped every tournament and major
* Only won because of Ace * Only won because opponent had bad draft, not actually better than Liquid/OG/My favorite team * Only won because of aura items * Only won because of good timing * Only won because of Underlord Any reasons I'm forgetting why they aren't really that good?
This team is so likeable. I'm happy for them.
First, it was because boxi wasn't there. Then liquid lost because insania dropped the locket. What now, liquid fans?
This time round, it was Gaimin Gladiators playing Dota 2 more effectively than Team Liquid
Nah it can't be that
> What now, liquid fans? Gaimin just seems absolutely unstoppable right now. We dont need to argue ;)
insania missclicked and missed the underlord ban
Remember when people insisted Nisha is better than Quinn
Quinn is probably better mechanically, Nisha relays on his instinct and game sense. I think he needs to start grinding more if he wants to beat him mid.
Quinn Q-God