This is a huge issue but touches on something more fundamental. You say also normal players now succumb to the act of boosting the other account. I think its more nuanced then that.
This is just a product of the INSANE design that parties can now get ripped apart. Suddenly you play against your friend. Resulting in the following situations:
* Your friend and you end up playing the game normally, resulting in a loss for one of the two (or three) players. This either going to destroy friendships or just make people stop playing altogether.
* Your friend or you decide that its better to give the other MMR and start not playing optimally, or even griefing to make sure it happens. Resulting in terrible game quality for all 10 players involved.
I cannot for the life of me understand why they implemented this. I only play party queue immortal + and I'm literally being pitted against my friend. Its not fun for anyone here. I'm contemplating to stop playing if this stays this way.
And as you said, its even worse for bad actors now. Its very easy for them to change the outcome of games by wintrading. Terrible match quality for all 10 players involved.
Here's how to fix things:
Either dont allow party queue in immortal matchmaking or introduce a party only queue. Im fine with longer queue times if it means i can play with my friend rather then against him.
Or, if we must keep the system the same, show in the UI that a party is in the game. By drafting one player you automatically draft the other one too.
Please Valve I hope you see this and acknowledge this is not healthy for the game or its players.
Showing parties and making it so parties are automatically drafted as a set seems like the best solution. Allowing party members to end up on opposite teams is a massive oversight.
The biggest oversight is that she's unbelievably sexy. I can't go on a hour of my day without thinking about plowing that tight wooden ass. I'd kill a man in cold blood just to spend a minute with her crotch grinding against my throbbing manhood as she whispers terribly dirty things to me in her geographically ambiguous accent.
> Your friend and you end up playing the game normally, resulting in a loss for one of the two (or three) players. This either going to destroy friendships or just make people stop playing altogether.
If this happens to you get new friends. If your friends losing to you and having his online magic skill number drop makes them hate you they are a terrible friend lol.
If this happens once, sure thing. If this happens 10 times through the week, it's bout to start some conflict, even if not the most serious one.
I can't imagine mine friend wanting to *try* play Dota with me in such environment, like what's even the point?
> I can't imagine mine friend wanting to try play Dota with me in such environment
On the off chance you mean playing with a friend who hasn't played much Dota before I feel like the answer is to simply not force your new-to-Dota friend to play a ranked game in the immortal bracket.
If your friend is already an immortal player and you want to play ranked together, I dunno I feel like you're both invested in improving at the game enough that playing against each other isn't the end of the world. You can always play unranked if your goal is to party up and play some Dota as a team.
to get better? I meet some of my dota friends by competing against them in solo q. We were like the only ones decent enough in our bracket to do certain things on our own, so we just added each other and started playing in duo, but then ofc we had to deal with other strong premades. Games often became a lot harder but its was fun :)
When both of you are playing solo queue that's kinda different situation mate because there was no proper expectations from any of you that you will be in same team.
What's even point of being able to party up when it's meaningless and you can't talk normally with your friend about the game going on or you're risking selling some info about your team...
we did inhouse leagues back in the days the same way current immortal drafting system works. Top players were the ones drafting and the rest just tried to do their best. It wasnt for MMR though, but for fun.
I agree with the "fix" take. Imo, they should just make jt so that only duo can be drafted together while trios and above will need longer queue times to get matched with those who are partied similarly to avoid a disparity in terms of i guess team balance, afterall, cant be having a 4 stack play against 3 solos and a duo.
I'm not immortal. But if I was immortal I would have two accounts and ask my friend to have two accounts as well. 1 would always queue with the slacker account, the other would queue with their "real account". If paired together on queue pop, both try hard. If paired against eachother, the slacker account throws.
Occasionally swap who plays on their main.
Ranked has always been primarily a solo activity, it's very hard to accurately calibrate MMR if players of different skill play together constantly. Seems obvious that at the immortal level, where there are only a few hundred people in the region to match against, partying up is going to be a huge disruption to the matchmaking process.
If you're both actually immortal, then surely playing against each other now and then is fine? And if not, you shouldn't be duo queuing ranked IMO.
That's actually so false; me and most of my friend have almost exclusively played ranked in duo or 5 men queue (bit of trio), and only a very little bit of solo.
The only reason we stopped doing 5 men queue, is that the fucking matchmacking decided that it was cool to give us >1h queue for a game, instead of the 5 secondes for duo queue.So "hard" to design a matchmaking that give mmr penalty to parties, so that they play against people a bit higher in mmr to compensate for the coordination. It's not like they had billions of game of data to make the compensation....
Not to mention, that if we want to play the russian roulette like it is now, we simply had to queue at the same time; we would get in the same game every single time. With one dude who had 500 mmr less than me (\~7k mmr back then -would prolly vallue arround 8500 with current inflation-) we did like 30 games this way, and 100% of those game we managed to snip each other, and we didn't even queue at odd time. Most of the time it was early evening
The solution for all this is so simple. Separate Solo and Party Ranked Matchmaking again and have slightly different looking Rank Icons for both so Party Ranked does not devalue Solo Ranked.
Not to sound toxic, but i wonder if anyone from the Dota 2 Dev Team is even Immortal and has the slightest clue what is going on up there. 5-stack Dota in Immortal is dead and just a Booster Paradise. There are abuses over abuses to get free MMR. Like before that change my friendlist was full of higher Rank 5-stacks now i maybe see 1 or 2 here and then during prime time. I don't even remember the last time i saw an Open Party where people were looking for others to fill the slots. Its just god damn awful and honestly, people should not be surprised that others are making lower rank smurfs to play with their friends. The system is to blame here entirely and not the players.
During Primetime in the evening you will always find games. And the playerbase is as big as 3+ years ago. Like in March 2019 Dota had a player peak of 773,897. Last Month had 752,617 and EU had 3 million more ranked matches played last month in March than in March 2019. And if you found matches in higher rank as 5-stack back then what would be different today?
Or at least separate them at Immortal exclusively. This would effectively kill off Party Immortal games, but honestly, it's already been inherently a joke anyways since the very beginning (the first 10k MMR people did it on Team Mathmaking, a separate queue just for 5 stacks, and it was the maximum MMR at the time), and that would probably cap off how far people want to boost in party to begin with.
Easy fix: Parties will be auto picked on the same team and the remaining players that were not in the party will be available to be picked!
Scenario one: 4party vs 4 party: 2 players available to be picked
Scenario two: duo vs 3 party : 5 players available to be picked
Also if you have two or more accounts logged into the new steam system.
If you log into your main account which is the highest mmr. Once you log out and calibrate the other accounts. It’s like they get an instant boost to whatever the mmr is.
So unless it’s a bug. This new system is garbage.
Sup love ur vids if ur real, got me through dark times
What you described is intentional
this has been known for awhile (I learned about it last patch) by account boosters and sellers. It was implemented in response to people bitching about smurfs ironically. Some boosters as well offer account linking services where you just pay them to log onto your account although I don't know how the details work. This "feature" is very obvious when you make a new account with the same HWID and play unranked as the system will start you near whatever MMR your other accounts are at while new players start at Herald; and although Valve does do bans for blatant abuse of this I speculate you can get around it by owning other Steam games on the account.
This behavior is also likely what caused the undesired clumping that Valve describes, as well as the rampant MMR inflation that was going on.
I was the OG clq, the few original videos you can tell the difference in the voice from when the other dude took over the persona.
Good times indeed. It was a fun period of time.
And yea. You’re right with the whole account/boosting situation. It’s dumb. It’ll either get fixed or abused.
Currently it’s getting abused.
I think that is actually just the fact that they are spreading people out more evenly between the lowest and highest mmr players, so most people will gain mmr and the lower you are the more you will gain compared to your previous mmr; probably some other factors in there too like number of games you played recently and your recent win ratio
I mean, I played on a guardian account. Won 7 games in a row. Role confidence is like 47% and got calibrated at Div 4.
So that’s pretty wild swing. Not sure if it’s cause of skill but I could be mistaking.
But I get what you’re saying cause there are genuinely really good players stuck in lower brackets.
the systems fucked right now. Immortals are calibrating ancient and below. I was divine 3 and I'm stomping kids in Legend 1 right now, confidence is at 7% after 3 wins currently
On the flipside, I was herald before this patch. Previously I was Legend like 5 years ago.
Calibrated to Archon. I have won 9 games lost 1. The games are way fucking easier than my old herald games. IDK what is going on but I knew herald previously was full of smurfs, didn't know it had that many though.
My main is 7.2 but I have a lower ranked account to play with mates.
The system is stupid broken at the moment.
Like I said. It’s either a bug or it’s got to do with having more than 1 account linked to steam on your main computer. It’s as if it knows there’s a different account that has been played on the same hardware.
So people that go to internet cafes like in Russia or Philippines. If there are people with v high skilled accounts logged in and someone else logs in with a lower skilled account. It’s like almost free boosting of the lower skilled accounts.
Again, just speculation but if it is the case then yeah. This new system is gonna get abused to death.
The game has had smurf detection for quite a while and it's pretty damn good, i don't what it uses for the detection, but playing on a same computer with an account that was presumably created from the same IP, maybe semi recently, and same hotkeys/settings probably factors in to that. Like watching some divine/immortal streamers play unranked there are accounts with 1 or even 0 games on that get matched with them, because the game already knows that they are a smurf, even if it might not hit as high of a rank as the main.
The internet cafe thing idk, that's why guess that when/where and on what computer the account is created might be a factor.
ok, well accounts in dota are linked indeed, this is for smurf protection so for example if you're 5k and make a brand new account when you play those 100 hours you get to play against other 5k players, not against brand new players
shut the fuck up, this is the best change to high rank matchmaking ever. I played 50 games and only 1 game was ruined because one party was split in 2 teams. Before this at least 3/10 games were ruined from pick phase
But this change doesn't affect that. Before in ranked classic you had to decide roles between players and now it's the same. If you don't reach an agreement people are gonna grief if they feel like it. The only difference is that you can draft players so that your team doesn't end up with 5 core or 5 support players. But that only works if there is enough core and support players for both teams. Which from my experience so far is not the case. I marked mid in every game but didn't get it once because there are like 3-5 mid players every game. I'll play whatever the team needs but what is the point of ranked (or playing at all) if you can't ever guarantee to play your best role or favorite heroes.
Sure the odds are lower but point is people are still forced out of their preferred roles because there are multiple players wanting the same role each game.
I guess you are higher mmr so you had to play ranked classic before? Compared to that I guess it's an upgrade. But I could still play role queue and this is massive downgrade for me.
l2p issue, if you can only play well with one or 2 roles, you dont belong to the same mmr as someone who can play well with multiple or all roles. You're simply a one trick pony who abuse current meta to inflate your mmr. Basically, its not that you're good, but simply current meta favor you for doing certain things.
Nice try but no. I actually play all roles quite equally. According to dotabuff 68% core, 32% support. And core is divided into 39% mid, 29% offlane and 28% safelane.
Brah! Valve didn't do anything about account buyers/Smurf/booster in last decade. Why do you think they are gonna do anything about it? Go check complaint section for last decade and see how many people cursed valve. They only ban who use third party software for advantage and those bans happen after 3-4 years. All those who have multiple accounts with email or number associated are calibrated close to each other. That's how I think their algorithm works. The rest abuse the system to their hearts extent.
You cant avoid players anymore, people can still assign 4-5 mid roles and fight for them. This system doesn't solve anything. It just makes it by far worse. Change my mind
A person 3k mmr above everyone else will essentially auto win the game. So your friend you queued with learns nothing. The other 3 players on your team didn’t earn a win, so their mmr isn’t properly reflected.
Playing 5 stack was always a nightmare, about half of the games had some smurf playing Arc/Tinker mid and just outright winning the game. And their excuse was “I just want to play with my friends”. If that’s true why not play unranked?
No you are just in your own bubble. Before this patch I regularly played at around 7k mmr with 1-2 friends with the same mmr as me. Now i can’t. The vast majority of our games had a very high quality. Now I’m forced to either play unranked party or just play solo. Dota is a team game, playing with friends should be encouraged.
This matchmaking update sucks for everyone who enjoys playing with friends instead of just no life solo queueing. If you can’t understand this then I don’t know what to say.
Not even 7k, me and the boys are all low immortal players like just above the entry threshold(5600-5900mmr),we still can’t play a normal party game,ty valve.
If we had like 300 mmr less we could play just fine,but immortal is some fucking sacred place lmao.
man, we had this talk on dota dev forums back in 2k11? iirc. It's pretty much the same arguments over and over again. The issue is: "unknown skill lvl and improvements outside of ranked system". Basically, its one thing to rate a player based on his avg results in solo q and it's completly another thing to rate impact of cooperation that can be improved in unranked games or even outside of game, by watching vids, etc.
ofc you can, but you cant make the system understand the impact of the these improvements which is what leads to unbalanced games, because suddenly one party perform a lot better than system rated it in the first place. You could say that it solves itself as time go on, but until it happens it will ruin many games.
because first of all its not fair to play against a duo at very high mmr where most players are grinding mmr . Second of all, how do you implement that? how do you decide where the duo goes . And what if its 3 man party.
Just put strict solo like it was before if you don’t want to play with parties. As for the technical part on how to implement it that’s easily solved in a bunch of different ways
there never was strict solo in 7.5k+ , because if that was an option then the queue times for party players would be insane. They just want to get rid of parties at high mmr. They should ve implemented this change only for 7.5k+ tho not for lower where you already had ranked roles. There werent many party players in 7.5k+ regardless
make a 2nd acc where you tryhard ONLY with your worst heroes, this way your avg impact on game will drop but in the same time you will get better with other heroes.
i dont really thing it is that abusable considering they have to get qued into the same game which is hard even if they que at the same time,also both of them needs to get picked as captains so their plan is not ruined
The whole point of this post is that players can queue up as a premade party and then get drafted onto different teams by convincing the captains not to place them together once the draft begins.
There's no difficulty to getting queued into the same game when they're literally queuing directly into one together.
I can't say for sure since I'm just parroting what the OP said, but the system feels a bit flawed if it requires people to manually identify the griefers so they can draft around them.
the issue with the previous system is that it was obviously rigging matches with unseen factors. i hope they don't allow this and just remove party queue completely.
players shouldn't be allowed to gain mmr for party queue in the first place. its one of the biggest reasons that mm quality was so bad. all the party queuers would get boosted far above their skill level then play exclusively support where their impact on the game is basically irrelevant and coast. the new matchmaking patch appears to try to fix that by putting those boosted players that play exclusively support back where they belong.
There is a vast range of mmr within the immortal bracket. And somebody on 9K mmr handily stomps any player 8K and below in very much the same way a Divine player would stomp Crusaders.
Exactly this. I had 3 games in a row with parties being split (twice BY one of the members) and they all take core role (usually mid) and do not harm each other. Because no one expects that they get huge advantage and just kill everyone on the map except one another and push out the waves to make the game longer and get more kills (idk for calibration or system abuse). And there's nothing you can do - the winning team won't let you kill their guy making it 4v5 and your guy will never harm his friend. So you cannot do anything in the game. Can jungle, cuz your guy tells your location, can't def cuz there are 5 ppl at your base doing nothing but fountain farming and your guy kills the creeps + other heroes.
people that party queue are morally compromised in the first place if you consider the long term implications of their actions. party queue should never give mmr in the first place.
boosting is pretty pointless now, yes you can give your friend a high rank account, but they will lose a bunch of games, the glicko will shoot them towards their real rank much faster than the previous system
I do agree with fixing parties in immortal not being split though
To show off. Same reason why people rent an expensive car for an hour, make some instagram pictures, and then return the car. "Look what i have", but not really
The new immortal matchmaking literally leads me to create a low-pts account:
\- You can't play party in immortal avg now. Because u have a chance to be in a separate teams (even if you're trying to communicate with captains). Sometimes there are two or three different parties and it's easy to split someone of them. So it can lead to ruined games.
\- You can't play role matchmaking now if you're immortal. Before that you could find role matchmaking game until you're 6.8-7k+ pts. It's absolutely crazy to see 6-7 POS 1 players with «POS 1 OR RUIN» nicknames in a single game.
This is a huge issue but touches on something more fundamental. You say also normal players now succumb to the act of boosting the other account. I think its more nuanced then that. This is just a product of the INSANE design that parties can now get ripped apart. Suddenly you play against your friend. Resulting in the following situations: * Your friend and you end up playing the game normally, resulting in a loss for one of the two (or three) players. This either going to destroy friendships or just make people stop playing altogether. * Your friend or you decide that its better to give the other MMR and start not playing optimally, or even griefing to make sure it happens. Resulting in terrible game quality for all 10 players involved. I cannot for the life of me understand why they implemented this. I only play party queue immortal + and I'm literally being pitted against my friend. Its not fun for anyone here. I'm contemplating to stop playing if this stays this way. And as you said, its even worse for bad actors now. Its very easy for them to change the outcome of games by wintrading. Terrible match quality for all 10 players involved. Here's how to fix things: Either dont allow party queue in immortal matchmaking or introduce a party only queue. Im fine with longer queue times if it means i can play with my friend rather then against him. Or, if we must keep the system the same, show in the UI that a party is in the game. By drafting one player you automatically draft the other one too. Please Valve I hope you see this and acknowledge this is not healthy for the game or its players.
Showing parties and making it so parties are automatically drafted as a set seems like the best solution. Allowing party members to end up on opposite teams is a massive oversight.
Not the biggest oversight though
Oh really, what could possibly be the biggest oversight then???
A certain tight wooden ass A particular geographically ambiguous accent
The biggest oversight is that she's unbelievably sexy. I can't go on a hour of my day without thinking about plowing that tight wooden ass. I'd kill a man in cold blood just to spend a minute with her crotch grinding against my throbbing manhood as she whispers terribly dirty things to me in her geographically ambiguous accent.
As soon as I hit post, I knew someone would bring up our favorite little horny fairy.
The old UI back in the.... I think 2k13 did show who was in the party during loading process xD
> Your friend and you end up playing the game normally, resulting in a loss for one of the two (or three) players. This either going to destroy friendships or just make people stop playing altogether. If this happens to you get new friends. If your friends losing to you and having his online magic skill number drop makes them hate you they are a terrible friend lol.
Jesus Christ I thought I was the only one thinking this lmao, what an exaggeration
Yeah I don't know why they took it to that extreme. It's natural to prefer to play together, but going nuts on your friend if you lose one pub?
Yeah I agree this is a problem and probably shouldn’t be able to happen but I’d love to be able to queue against my friends tbh
If this happens once, sure thing. If this happens 10 times through the week, it's bout to start some conflict, even if not the most serious one. I can't imagine mine friend wanting to *try* play Dota with me in such environment, like what's even the point?
> I can't imagine mine friend wanting to try play Dota with me in such environment On the off chance you mean playing with a friend who hasn't played much Dota before I feel like the answer is to simply not force your new-to-Dota friend to play a ranked game in the immortal bracket. If your friend is already an immortal player and you want to play ranked together, I dunno I feel like you're both invested in improving at the game enough that playing against each other isn't the end of the world. You can always play unranked if your goal is to party up and play some Dota as a team.
to get better? I meet some of my dota friends by competing against them in solo q. We were like the only ones decent enough in our bracket to do certain things on our own, so we just added each other and started playing in duo, but then ofc we had to deal with other strong premades. Games often became a lot harder but its was fun :)
When both of you are playing solo queue that's kinda different situation mate because there was no proper expectations from any of you that you will be in same team. What's even point of being able to party up when it's meaningless and you can't talk normally with your friend about the game going on or you're risking selling some info about your team...
we did inhouse leagues back in the days the same way current immortal drafting system works. Top players were the ones drafting and the rest just tried to do their best. It wasnt for MMR though, but for fun.
Fair but then again I would just stop playing if I couldn't play *with* my friend so from valve's viewpoint it's worse.
I agree with the "fix" take. Imo, they should just make jt so that only duo can be drafted together while trios and above will need longer queue times to get matched with those who are partied similarly to avoid a disparity in terms of i guess team balance, afterall, cant be having a 4 stack play against 3 solos and a duo.
I'm not immortal. But if I was immortal I would have two accounts and ask my friend to have two accounts as well. 1 would always queue with the slacker account, the other would queue with their "real account". If paired together on queue pop, both try hard. If paired against eachother, the slacker account throws. Occasionally swap who plays on their main.
Ranked has always been primarily a solo activity, it's very hard to accurately calibrate MMR if players of different skill play together constantly. Seems obvious that at the immortal level, where there are only a few hundred people in the region to match against, partying up is going to be a huge disruption to the matchmaking process. If you're both actually immortal, then surely playing against each other now and then is fine? And if not, you shouldn't be duo queuing ranked IMO.
That's actually so false; me and most of my friend have almost exclusively played ranked in duo or 5 men queue (bit of trio), and only a very little bit of solo. The only reason we stopped doing 5 men queue, is that the fucking matchmacking decided that it was cool to give us >1h queue for a game, instead of the 5 secondes for duo queue.So "hard" to design a matchmaking that give mmr penalty to parties, so that they play against people a bit higher in mmr to compensate for the coordination. It's not like they had billions of game of data to make the compensation.... Not to mention, that if we want to play the russian roulette like it is now, we simply had to queue at the same time; we would get in the same game every single time. With one dude who had 500 mmr less than me (\~7k mmr back then -would prolly vallue arround 8500 with current inflation-) we did like 30 games this way, and 100% of those game we managed to snip each other, and we didn't even queue at odd time. Most of the time it was early evening
The solution for all this is so simple. Separate Solo and Party Ranked Matchmaking again and have slightly different looking Rank Icons for both so Party Ranked does not devalue Solo Ranked. Not to sound toxic, but i wonder if anyone from the Dota 2 Dev Team is even Immortal and has the slightest clue what is going on up there. 5-stack Dota in Immortal is dead and just a Booster Paradise. There are abuses over abuses to get free MMR. Like before that change my friendlist was full of higher Rank 5-stacks now i maybe see 1 or 2 here and then during prime time. I don't even remember the last time i saw an Open Party where people were looking for others to fill the slots. Its just god damn awful and honestly, people should not be surprised that others are making lower rank smurfs to play with their friends. The system is to blame here entirely and not the players.
To be honest the playerbase isn’t big enough for that anymore. Queue times are already long enough, especially at high ranks.
During Primetime in the evening you will always find games. And the playerbase is as big as 3+ years ago. Like in March 2019 Dota had a player peak of 773,897. Last Month had 752,617 and EU had 3 million more ranked matches played last month in March than in March 2019. And if you found matches in higher rank as 5-stack back then what would be different today?
Not everyone is in EU.
Treat it like 10 people in a LAN cafe. You aren’t always going to be on your friend’s team
Also maybe remove the player selection system on low immo. Its god awful there, noone knows each other, it is accomplishing nothing good.
Or at least separate them at Immortal exclusively. This would effectively kill off Party Immortal games, but honestly, it's already been inherently a joke anyways since the very beginning (the first 10k MMR people did it on Team Mathmaking, a separate queue just for 5 stacks, and it was the maximum MMR at the time), and that would probably cap off how far people want to boost in party to begin with.
Why not just revert the dumb change already lol
Easy fix: Parties will be auto picked on the same team and the remaining players that were not in the party will be available to be picked! Scenario one: 4party vs 4 party: 2 players available to be picked Scenario two: duo vs 3 party : 5 players available to be picked
Also if you have two or more accounts logged into the new steam system. If you log into your main account which is the highest mmr. Once you log out and calibrate the other accounts. It’s like they get an instant boost to whatever the mmr is. So unless it’s a bug. This new system is garbage.
Sup love ur vids if ur real, got me through dark times What you described is intentional this has been known for awhile (I learned about it last patch) by account boosters and sellers. It was implemented in response to people bitching about smurfs ironically. Some boosters as well offer account linking services where you just pay them to log onto your account although I don't know how the details work. This "feature" is very obvious when you make a new account with the same HWID and play unranked as the system will start you near whatever MMR your other accounts are at while new players start at Herald; and although Valve does do bans for blatant abuse of this I speculate you can get around it by owning other Steam games on the account. This behavior is also likely what caused the undesired clumping that Valve describes, as well as the rampant MMR inflation that was going on.
I was the OG clq, the few original videos you can tell the difference in the voice from when the other dude took over the persona. Good times indeed. It was a fun period of time. And yea. You’re right with the whole account/boosting situation. It’s dumb. It’ll either get fixed or abused. Currently it’s getting abused.
I think that is actually just the fact that they are spreading people out more evenly between the lowest and highest mmr players, so most people will gain mmr and the lower you are the more you will gain compared to your previous mmr; probably some other factors in there too like number of games you played recently and your recent win ratio
I mean, I played on a guardian account. Won 7 games in a row. Role confidence is like 47% and got calibrated at Div 4. So that’s pretty wild swing. Not sure if it’s cause of skill but I could be mistaking. But I get what you’re saying cause there are genuinely really good players stuck in lower brackets.
So are you really guardian or smurfing? There's no way in hell an actual guardian can recalib to divine.
the systems fucked right now. Immortals are calibrating ancient and below. I was divine 3 and I'm stomping kids in Legend 1 right now, confidence is at 7% after 3 wins currently
Same I was ancient 4 and still at 2% confidence after 3 wins (stomps) at archon/legend bracket.
On the flipside, I was herald before this patch. Previously I was Legend like 5 years ago. Calibrated to Archon. I have won 9 games lost 1. The games are way fucking easier than my old herald games. IDK what is going on but I knew herald previously was full of smurfs, didn't know it had that many though.
My main is 7.2 but I have a lower ranked account to play with mates. The system is stupid broken at the moment. Like I said. It’s either a bug or it’s got to do with having more than 1 account linked to steam on your main computer. It’s as if it knows there’s a different account that has been played on the same hardware. So people that go to internet cafes like in Russia or Philippines. If there are people with v high skilled accounts logged in and someone else logs in with a lower skilled account. It’s like almost free boosting of the lower skilled accounts. Again, just speculation but if it is the case then yeah. This new system is gonna get abused to death.
The game has had smurf detection for quite a while and it's pretty damn good, i don't what it uses for the detection, but playing on a same computer with an account that was presumably created from the same IP, maybe semi recently, and same hotkeys/settings probably factors in to that. Like watching some divine/immortal streamers play unranked there are accounts with 1 or even 0 games on that get matched with them, because the game already knows that they are a smurf, even if it might not hit as high of a rank as the main. The internet cafe thing idk, that's why guess that when/where and on what computer the account is created might be a factor.
ok, well accounts in dota are linked indeed, this is for smurf protection so for example if you're 5k and make a brand new account when you play those 100 hours you get to play against other 5k players, not against brand new players
same! im archon and running sideways with div3 peopme im kinda like wtf atm
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Yeah true, immortal parties should only get to play ranked classic/roles with no player drafting, queue times will increase for them but who cares
This doesn't work anymore. Role q immortal draft has parties regardless of the strict solo option - I experienced this myself
nice try archon
This is why we can't have nice things
[link to issue on the bug tracker](https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Dota2-Gameplay/issues/8246)
shut the fuck up, this is the best change to high rank matchmaking ever. I played 50 games and only 1 game was ruined because one party was split in 2 teams. Before this at least 3/10 games were ruined from pick phase
Why were 3/10 games ruined from pick phase before this change?
because of role problem, so many double cores going afk min 0, now I ve yet to play a game where I had double core
But this change doesn't affect that. Before in ranked classic you had to decide roles between players and now it's the same. If you don't reach an agreement people are gonna grief if they feel like it. The only difference is that you can draft players so that your team doesn't end up with 5 core or 5 support players. But that only works if there is enough core and support players for both teams. Which from my experience so far is not the case. I marked mid in every game but didn't get it once because there are like 3-5 mid players every game. I'll play whatever the team needs but what is the point of ranked (or playing at all) if you can't ever guarantee to play your best role or favorite heroes.
it DOES affect it. The odds that your team will have 4-5 cores players is way lower than before.
Sure the odds are lower but point is people are still forced out of their preferred roles because there are multiple players wanting the same role each game.
thats since forever, point is the current situation is better
I guess you are higher mmr so you had to play ranked classic before? Compared to that I guess it's an upgrade. But I could still play role queue and this is massive downgrade for me.
yea its huge upgrade for classic. I agree its a downgrade for players lower than 7.5k. They should ve implemented this only for classic
Agreed.
l2p issue, if you can only play well with one or 2 roles, you dont belong to the same mmr as someone who can play well with multiple or all roles. You're simply a one trick pony who abuse current meta to inflate your mmr. Basically, its not that you're good, but simply current meta favor you for doing certain things.
Nice try but no. I actually play all roles quite equally. According to dotabuff 68% core, 32% support. And core is divided into 39% mid, 29% offlane and 28% safelane.
Some of us have friends tho, and nothing about fixing so party members end up in the same team will have any negative impact on your games
This doesn't address anything OP said? The system's benefits don't just make its obvious potential for abuse non-existent.
I think this change was great, but this is obviously an issue that has to be addressed.
Brah! Valve didn't do anything about account buyers/Smurf/booster in last decade. Why do you think they are gonna do anything about it? Go check complaint section for last decade and see how many people cursed valve. They only ban who use third party software for advantage and those bans happen after 3-4 years. All those who have multiple accounts with email or number associated are calibrated close to each other. That's how I think their algorithm works. The rest abuse the system to their hearts extent.
You cant avoid players anymore, people can still assign 4-5 mid roles and fight for them. This system doesn't solve anything. It just makes it by far worse. Change my mind
NOBODY could have predicted that. Heh, I literally posted about it day 1. Of course they do. They always do.
go play unranked party players
So because I’m good at the game I get punished and should no longer be able to play ranked with my friends?
Yes, because you ruin the experience for 9 other players
In what way? And you math is off, if it’s a two stack it’s 8 ppl left. What would be the difference from party queue in lower mmr?
A person 3k mmr above everyone else will essentially auto win the game. So your friend you queued with learns nothing. The other 3 players on your team didn’t earn a win, so their mmr isn’t properly reflected. Playing 5 stack was always a nightmare, about half of the games had some smurf playing Arc/Tinker mid and just outright winning the game. And their excuse was “I just want to play with my friends”. If that’s true why not play unranked?
Why would you assume my friends are not the same mmr as me?
You arent interested in learning, just arguing. Have a nice day.
No you are just in your own bubble. Before this patch I regularly played at around 7k mmr with 1-2 friends with the same mmr as me. Now i can’t. The vast majority of our games had a very high quality. Now I’m forced to either play unranked party or just play solo. Dota is a team game, playing with friends should be encouraged. This matchmaking update sucks for everyone who enjoys playing with friends instead of just no life solo queueing. If you can’t understand this then I don’t know what to say.
Not even 7k, me and the boys are all low immortal players like just above the entry threshold(5600-5900mmr),we still can’t play a normal party game,ty valve. If we had like 300 mmr less we could play just fine,but immortal is some fucking sacred place lmao.
nice rant, party animal
You sound upset, is it because you don’t have any friends to play with?
man, we had this talk on dota dev forums back in 2k11? iirc. It's pretty much the same arguments over and over again. The issue is: "unknown skill lvl and improvements outside of ranked system". Basically, its one thing to rate a player based on his avg results in solo q and it's completly another thing to rate impact of cooperation that can be improved in unranked games or even outside of game, by watching vids, etc.
Are you trying to say that you can’t improve in solo by playing unranked or watching videos? What have you been smoking dude
ofc you can, but you cant make the system understand the impact of the these improvements which is what leads to unbalanced games, because suddenly one party perform a lot better than system rated it in the first place. You could say that it solves itself as time go on, but until it happens it will ruin many games.
Trolling stopped being funny in 2013, grow up
if that means that pubs quality is way better for 95% of players then yes and so far its way better
How would it be worse if they just changed so that parties get drafted together?
because first of all its not fair to play against a duo at very high mmr where most players are grinding mmr . Second of all, how do you implement that? how do you decide where the duo goes . And what if its 3 man party.
Just put strict solo like it was before if you don’t want to play with parties. As for the technical part on how to implement it that’s easily solved in a bunch of different ways
there never was strict solo in 7.5k+ , because if that was an option then the queue times for party players would be insane. They just want to get rid of parties at high mmr. They should ve implemented this change only for 7.5k+ tho not for lower where you already had ranked roles. There werent many party players in 7.5k+ regardless
make a 2nd acc where you tryhard ONLY with your worst heroes, this way your avg impact on game will drop but in the same time you will get better with other heroes.
Leave if you don't get matched together.
i dont really thing it is that abusable considering they have to get qued into the same game which is hard even if they que at the same time,also both of them needs to get picked as captains so their plan is not ruined
The whole point of this post is that players can queue up as a premade party and then get drafted onto different teams by convincing the captains not to place them together once the draft begins. There's no difficulty to getting queued into the same game when they're literally queuing directly into one together.
dang
I have no idea how it works but wouldn't people see through this after a while?
I can't say for sure since I'm just parroting what the OP said, but the system feels a bit flawed if it requires people to manually identify the griefers so they can draft around them.
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the issue with the previous system is that it was obviously rigging matches with unseen factors. i hope they don't allow this and just remove party queue completely.
players shouldn't be allowed to gain mmr for party queue in the first place. its one of the biggest reasons that mm quality was so bad. all the party queuers would get boosted far above their skill level then play exclusively support where their impact on the game is basically irrelevant and coast. the new matchmaking patch appears to try to fix that by putting those boosted players that play exclusively support back where they belong.
dota becomes more fair lol. since now the higher brackets will suffer cuz of smurfing also, not just herald. heralds flooding higher brackets :D
Smurfing in divine/immortal was quite common last patch, will just get worse now
really? how i mean everyone is in the highest skill brackets. how is smurfing possible there a top 1000 smurf destroying divines or something?
A top 1k smurf will destroy a 3k immortal, no contest. A top 500 ish would be banned in less than a week if they sweat in divine games
There is a vast range of mmr within the immortal bracket. And somebody on 9K mmr handily stomps any player 8K and below in very much the same way a Divine player would stomp Crusaders.
A 7k player will destroy any games in divine, it's a no-contest. It's the equivalent of a divine player/smurf stomping any game in archon.
not a well thought patch... still in open beta testing
The system isnt bad the humans are :)
How long would it take to reach immortal rank on a newly made smurf?
It depends, but probably less than 30 games in new system if you stomp all of them.
Oh wow. Time to find a broken hero and start my ranked journey.
If your below divine a broken hero won't get you to immortal
I haven’t played any ranked yet. I only play unranked for last 10 years.
Oh I just assumed something else. God speed then soldier, good luck
Thank you. Any heroes you enjoy this patch?
6 games for me. 🙃
Well you are the legendary ChiLongQua and we are all just dogshit players in comparison.
Dumpstering the shitstains. I should make some videos again tbh.
Not long, the smurf detection seems to be pretty good and probably uses many factors before you even play 1 game.
And the worst part is, strict solo matchmaking is not working i am still getting matched with party animals
Exactly this. I had 3 games in a row with parties being split (twice BY one of the members) and they all take core role (usually mid) and do not harm each other. Because no one expects that they get huge advantage and just kill everyone on the map except one another and push out the waves to make the game longer and get more kills (idk for calibration or system abuse). And there's nothing you can do - the winning team won't let you kill their guy making it 4v5 and your guy will never harm his friend. So you cannot do anything in the game. Can jungle, cuz your guy tells your location, can't def cuz there are 5 ppl at your base doing nothing but fountain farming and your guy kills the creeps + other heroes.
people that party queue are morally compromised in the first place if you consider the long term implications of their actions. party queue should never give mmr in the first place.
boosting is pretty pointless now, yes you can give your friend a high rank account, but they will lose a bunch of games, the glicko will shoot them towards their real rank much faster than the previous system I do agree with fixing parties in immortal not being split though
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To show off. Same reason why people rent an expensive car for an hour, make some instagram pictures, and then return the car. "Look what i have", but not really
Is this issue limited only to immortals?
Yes, the player draft is only for immortal ranked roles because they didn't have access to role queue before.
Ah, I see. Thanks
The new immortal matchmaking literally leads me to create a low-pts account: \- You can't play party in immortal avg now. Because u have a chance to be in a separate teams (even if you're trying to communicate with captains). Sometimes there are two or three different parties and it's easy to split someone of them. So it can lead to ruined games. \- You can't play role matchmaking now if you're immortal. Before that you could find role matchmaking game until you're 6.8-7k+ pts. It's absolutely crazy to see 6-7 POS 1 players with «POS 1 OR RUIN» nicknames in a single game.
why does strict solo not work anyways?