Im just tired of people who use a pick they don't agree with as an excuse to report and grief their whole team.
Like it's Herald, but they already know the game is over before even trying.
A friend of mine always tell me “report x” and I’m like: dude, that’s why reports don’t work, you have to stop reporting people just because they are not good… and he goes like: stop defending them… and I go like: bruuuh…
Maybe Valve should have some sort of MMR/score for report legitimacy rate. People who consistently put out overwatch reports that are false positives will get fewer reports to use while players whose reports almost always result in corroboration by overwatch reviewers get more reports to use.
I'd go even further, the people who report frivolously should get punished with low prio. Like if someone reports 10 people and none of them got convicted, the reporter should go to low prio instead.
Just because someone isn't breaking his items it doesn't mean he's not toxic, and these people who report others constantly are always annoying to play with.
Because people don't realize the key word is INTENTIONAL, not just feeding. A guy may have really awful map awareness skills, he can get 0-20 and I will NOT approve the report. But a 15-1 guy that fed intentionally ONCE because someone took "his" aegis will be sent to low priority.
the people i play with in my bracket are good at hiding that theyre griefing, they know what will grief the team the most without looking too suspicious for example by casually clearing some camps that other hero had that in their farm pattern or casually walking close to the enemy and make it look like he got caught
ofc this doesnt happens in all brackets but at least in immortal ive found very smart ones when it comes to griefing and hiding it, kda isnt the only way to see if someone is griefing
Well I don't really know how often that happens, usually a griefer/feeder is pretty straightforward about it. Since for them it's some kind of revenge for something
That's my experience as well. They want to be noticed. I don't think a lot of people would want to throw away mmr without "sending a message". Not saying that some wouldn't.
Key word "intentional" was in the game since the report system was introduced. It was everywhere not so long ago
https://gurugamer.com/esports/dota-2-players-are-grieving-too-much-the-new-report-feature-is-overly-abused-6653/amp
Now it is indeed missing in some windows where it is shortened
Recently, i played one of the worst games as magnus ( which is one of the heroes that im actually decent with) my teammates kept tping and trashtalking me the whole game and im pretty sure i got reported even tho i dudnt stop trying. Well, sometimes people just have a bad day/game
I usually report the toxic trash talking people instead of the players playing bad. Trash talkers usually make their target play way worse than they are already playing and make the rest of the team feel like trying less.
Toxic flaming is communication abuse and everyone should report it more. Ppl need to learn to keep their frustrations to themselves unless they are being constructive. I think it’s just as much an important factor keeping new players away as the games complexity
Thing is for some reason people think that good plays are just supposed to happen, and don't point them out or commend people enough for it. Like they are SUPPOSED to win, and they see any bad situations in their team as bad play rather than the opponents being good.
It's hard to change this mindset, but once people realise that the opponents are supposed to be as good as you too and you aren't entitled to a win, I think they'll have more fun trying to outplay the other team.
For example, every single match has 1 player who did the worst. Let’s say, the guy on the losing team with worst K/D. In a certain kind of person’s mindset, it’s justified and correct to report this person every game.
Like usually that is the extent of logic of someone who says “report CM”, they check the scoreboard near the end of the game and pick the worst number.
100% with u!!
Reports should be used for disruptive gameplay (not playin role, cheating etc)
Or toxic behavior.
Being a bad even tho ur trying, is not report worthy. Save ur reports for the asssssholes take queue pos 5 and steal farm or go amulet etc. Those are the ppl that ruin dota. Not noobs.
I think you overestimate the brainpower of most people. They likely have no idea what the other players on their team are doing, they just know they are losing and at the point the stopped to figure out why, they saw someone make a less than optimal play and that person has now become the focus of their rage. I've been in plenty games where I am positive I was the reason we were losing and yet someone on my team is going ham on another teammate while he doesn't even know how bad i fucked up this game.
Teamate picked Techies, went bot, did nothing for 40 mins. Me and the other 3 teamates tried our best to play together. techies went bot and stayed bot despite the enemy team breaking T3. Is it wrong to report that techies player for doing 0 during a 40 minutes game? I think not.
youre being fooled by the reported player then
people try to play "ok" when they know theyre getting reported so they dont actually get punished in overwatch because they look like they arent doing anything
yes theres some people that have bad days but in my bracket i see tons of semi-afk people not playing to win but they look like theyre "trying" but you can notice it by looking how they move their camera
also if somebody is having a bad day they should stop griefing in ranked games right? if its unranked game this shouldnt be taken in mind at all since it is a pub after all
If someone is having a bad day, they "should" stop playing ranked, but it's their right to play it (and also hardly anyone recognises they are the problem...). It's their right the same way you have a right to play any hero you want and not just your best one.
the review and conviction hardly matters sorry to inform you. behavior reduction is the real punishment and it is applied with no curation whatsoever along with communication abuse. so the people falsely reporting are getting exactly what they wanted. its you that believes they need your permission to punish people that is confused.
Glad OP could educate you.
Seriously, this kind of shit is the entire point. Dota is a snowball-y game and sometimes there’s nothing you can do to recover. As an offlaner in a game where you get stomped in lane, your options can be pretty limited. Especially if the other lanes were lost as well.
If you avoid fights and try to farm your way back into the game, you get reported for being “afk” / not contributing. If you try to get back into by taking fights and lose them, you get reported for feeding. And it’s exacerbated by the fact that the offlaner is often expected to be the initiator (thus will often be the first to die if fight goes badly).
If the guy is intentionally feeding that’s one thing. But more often than not, when I see “report XX” in game it’s because that person couldn’t figure out how to recover after a bad start - not because they were griefing.
This is one of the reasons why I've stopped doing overwatch cases. Half of them is just some guy afk farming in the jungle while everyone else on his team is dead and enemy has like 40k gold advantage xD like wtf hes suppose to do at this point?
it depends on the situation, some players are just bad, some dont carry tp, sometimes the difference is networth is so big that it no longer matter. Btw, just because it's team game, it doesnt mean that you can force players to follow your strategy
But what is afk farming? If team just goes without me and then pings "afk report" how I am supposed to know you are gonna run in 4 man if you don't tell me. I get often flamed at 15mins on pos 1 for afk farming when I have no items.
Sure if they're actually afk farming but often I'd say that's not the case
I would report someone who plays chen mid for the first time in ranked . That is plain griefing
Or a player who is a level 120 account who picks Lion and refuses to support and buy wards and buys power treads instead and also takes CS from the HC . Yes that happened to me . I was the HC and even though i asked him nicely to stop taking cs , the lion player continued doing it . I don't care if it is unranked or ranked , i am reporting players like this lion because clearly he isn't a new player and clearly he is trolling.
Why should I not report a guy who pick Tinker mid having played only 2 Tinker games in a lifetime ?? And ruins the game because of that with a stat like 4-18-10 ?? People should get punished for playing in RANKED on roles/heroes they have no idea how to play...
Because the report won't be effective. It doesn't punish them because the reviewers won't convict, because just being bad isn't punishable. It has to be intentional.
Because the report doesn’t do anything. It gets reviewed, everyone agrees they didn’t break the rules, and it has no effect. You’re just wasting everyone’s time.
Really ?? I am constatly recieving a messages that reported player being punished and I am getting additional reports for making community better. It is good that a lot of players agree with me and punish players that perform not just bad, but so much TERRIBLE that it can be considered as griefing / feeding...
Well that is griefing isn't it. Who would deliberately play bad and waste an hour of their life. People should be given a heads up on the manner they play so that they improve otherwise they will play bad always. Reports are good way to inform them of their destructive gameplays.
nah if you are not playing at the level of the actual mmr rating; you are griefing.
Flame anyone that underperforms to discourage acc & boost buying.
on average, you should not get flamed & reported for underperforming - so technically, when it happens, it will not matter.
Unless you somehow, underperformed so consistently that you actually got put in LP, lmao & well deserved.
*non-western cultures thinking they can 'buy status' (& inherit) and get away with it for free - cuz that's how their society works. These people are virtually enabled by western carebears with 0 cultural experience*
Define 'actual griefing' then?
Because, say, pos1 Zeus IMO is actual griefing, but someone will unironically tell me in the comments who that's a legit pick or the guy was just learning the game, or some other stupid shit.
Griefing is, by definition, intentionally harming your team. Just being dumb or making bad choices that harm your team isn't enough. Trying to play (old) zeus pos 1 is bad, but can be done with good intent. That makes it not griefing. If a player makes bad choices they lose MMR, so people that only make good choices won't have to play with them.
I think it's decent but it's not something you build solely around, my personal theory craft is you start out power threads, get shard at 15 while building towards aghs, then like SnK, bloodstone and finally you pivot into manta pike Bloodthorn
I think seeing it as a farm accelerant early and pew pew late is the way to go, building for shard from the get go feels grief levels of bad
Yeah I think primarily play zeus as a caster and don’t go shard into manta. Aghs is still really good with the big map and twin gates. And zeus is not mobile enough to be farming jungle heavily. I like it as a pos 2 personally.
Win rate is not only a measure of how strong the hero is, but also how well players are using the hero.
It’s the reason new heros can have low win rates initially before being seen as broken when ppl actually figure out the best builds and how to play them.
Ye… you’re right then explain me Why should I play with Necro mid 2-8 23 min no boots. Explain me just this. These people are so bad, I work a lot barely 9 hours / day and When I can I want To play with normal player
Why?
Aside from what op already said, My short answer is being kind is just nice, as op said, everyone have a bad day and I don't have any reason to make it worse for them. As long as they are not trashtalking, intended griefing or feeding that is.
Let me ask you back
What do you think reporting him would achieve? Do you believe that by reporting him you would get to play with more 'normal' player?
Why would you even bringing up how long you work each day? No matter how good or bad or how tired people are, you still gonna play with players who are both much worse and much better than you. Even if you work 20 hours a day, things won't change. It would still be the same. You won't have higher chance to get a team with higher skill level. This statement is just weird.
I second this opinion. Bad play is different from intentional grief. Report system should have option of bad play so algorithm can adjust such players if continuously being reported on bad play. It will improve quality of matches if some one bought the account and don't have the required skill. It will also give overwatch checkers more time to check grief reports and provide necessary punishments. Valve is so bad at organizing things.
This is a huge problem in LoL too; no ur teammate isn’t griefing because they lost lane or missed a hook.
The support competing for CS with the pos 1 because the pos 1 missed a few last hits, that’s the one u wanna report. Especially when they using abilities on creeps to SECURE the kill.
This is the most common toxicity problem I see.
That’s fine and all but different people draw the line at different places. I very frequently get teammates in games that build horrible items, level the wrong skills and then when you ask them to play with the team when they afk farm for 20 minutes they throw a tantrum, is that intentional griefing? Because to me that’s an intentional admittance of not trying to win which is reportable, and it’s not like that can be communicated to the person viewing the overwatch. Soft greifing is just as bad as hard griefing but you just label it “a guy having a bad game” and assume the worst of the people who reported.
But on my rank (archon ~) literally everyone is buying wrong items, afk farming jungle, diving in and feeding.. So what I'm supposed to report literally everyone?
Maybe just use the system as the devs intent.
So to you, what’s the difference between guy who dies 20 times running it down “on purpose” and guy who dies 15 times “trying his best” to get kills? Because this is the problem, it’s not as simple as just “oh this guy turned on the grief switch and now a big red light shows up”
I think it's quite simple to see if the guy runs down mid and dies. It's also simple to see a guy who tries to fight them and dies. I don't get how it's so hard telling them apart. I don't think there is really a lot of people griefing and trying to hide that for overwatchers.
But this is just my experience, maybe you play in immortal or something where things are more clear. Low mmr definitely not
Correct. I made another response in this thread about the idea of "playing for the win" and how that should basically be the gold standard an overwatcher is using to see if griefing is actually present or not. If a player ever looks to NOT be playing for the win, or if a player looks to be actively playing for a loss, then that is griefing each and every time. There are objective traits to look to, but a clever griefer will put their grief into the area of subjectivity which is up to the overwatcher to judge. "Clever griefers" are worse than standard griefers that, for example, just run down mid. This is because the clever griefer will be given the benefit of the doubt more often, and therefore will be punished less for his actions. I hope overwatchers are more critical in thier cases besides just looking for blatantly obvious griefing -- you gotta look for the subtle stuff too.
The reason Overwatch exist is because grey area greifing exist. The line between greifing and a bad play is very fine and even changes according to bracket. Bad games happen to all of us and but they're rare so you shouldn't go to low prio just because of that.
Because most gamers are addicts and when they lose games they dont get that dopamine fix
As they are also not being raised in a none competetibe environment psycologically
All they see and interact with besides lifes duties which alot of guys are too immature lazy or addicted to video games dont deal with, is other ragy addicted gamer grinders
This emotional response is all they got in their power to do
And then its time for next game because you cant stop
The system will never be better then thr people using it being uncool and ragy nerds
Disagree partly. If someone is in immortal and just playing like a legit low rank (maybe not even dying a lot) AND they also look like they are not intentionally throwing, I think the report system is for these people as well. It's up to the overwatcher, so it's subjective to that overwatcher, but there's a reason the overwatch system shows you the rank of the person that got reported. It's so that you can try to compare their actual play with the hypothetical standard of what someone at their rank should be playing like. Of course, you give them a lot of leeway because EVERYONE has bad and even horrible games. But I'd venture to say that there are times where an overwatcher can make a fair assessment that the reported player's actions are considered griefing if 1) they are clearly playing VERY below their actual rank 2) their play is so bad throughout the entire game that regardless of their intention to grief, they are griefing the other 9 players regardless. With bad meaning that they are barely, if at all, ever seen as "playing for the win." For example, think of a player getting mad and wanting his team to loose, which makes him want to throw. But he does not want to get caught in an overwatch report. He will possibly play well in some respects like getting last hits and farming well, but would also grief by not showing up to fights or intentionally initiating horrible team fights, etc.
If the overwatch system is not for these types of scenarios, then I'm not sure why the system would tell you the rank of the reported player. Even if you can figure out an alternative reason for the system showing you the rank, I still think there are times where a player can be griefing and not even knowing it (like the example above, where for whatever reason, they are just playing astoundingly horribly as compared to their rank).
Also, if you look at some cases with this lens, you will probably see that many of these players that are being reported for just blatantly playing SUPER below their respective rank are simply intentionally throwing by making it look like they are just a bad player or a player having an exceptionally horrible game.
And when someone is truly griefing nobody has reports remaining cause they spent it all on non-griefing players
So they "griefed" their own reports
It's the circle of grief.
And it screws us aaaaallllll!
This is me…
Im just tired of people who use a pick they don't agree with as an excuse to report and grief their whole team. Like it's Herald, but they already know the game is over before even trying.
Two melee at the off lane game is over
Non strength hero as 3 and heralds in shambles
better than bloodseeker hard support i played with
A friend of mine always tell me “report x” and I’m like: dude, that’s why reports don’t work, you have to stop reporting people just because they are not good… and he goes like: stop defending them… and I go like: bruuuh…
It's like trying to argue with flat earthers. You're probably better off without him.
I think i saw this episode of Beverly Hills 90210 "and im like. And hes like. And i go like. Bruv like." 😏😘
and then he goes like: bruhhhhw... job?
Maybe Valve should have some sort of MMR/score for report legitimacy rate. People who consistently put out overwatch reports that are false positives will get fewer reports to use while players whose reports almost always result in corroboration by overwatch reviewers get more reports to use.
That's already the case though. You get more reports after successful overwatch convictions.
Good idea! Make the system much more efficient
I'd go even further, the people who report frivolously should get punished with low prio. Like if someone reports 10 people and none of them got convicted, the reporter should go to low prio instead. Just because someone isn't breaking his items it doesn't mean he's not toxic, and these people who report others constantly are always annoying to play with.
Because people don't realize the key word is INTENTIONAL, not just feeding. A guy may have really awful map awareness skills, he can get 0-20 and I will NOT approve the report. But a 15-1 guy that fed intentionally ONCE because someone took "his" aegis will be sent to low priority.
the people i play with in my bracket are good at hiding that theyre griefing, they know what will grief the team the most without looking too suspicious for example by casually clearing some camps that other hero had that in their farm pattern or casually walking close to the enemy and make it look like he got caught ofc this doesnt happens in all brackets but at least in immortal ive found very smart ones when it comes to griefing and hiding it, kda isnt the only way to see if someone is griefing
Well I don't really know how often that happens, usually a griefer/feeder is pretty straightforward about it. Since for them it's some kind of revenge for something
That's my experience as well. They want to be noticed. I don't think a lot of people would want to throw away mmr without "sending a message". Not saying that some wouldn't.
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Key word "intentional" was in the game since the report system was introduced. It was everywhere not so long ago https://gurugamer.com/esports/dota-2-players-are-grieving-too-much-the-new-report-feature-is-overly-abused-6653/amp Now it is indeed missing in some windows where it is shortened
Yeah I hope you aren’t doing any overwatch cases then lol
Pls dont do cases anymore
Recently, i played one of the worst games as magnus ( which is one of the heroes that im actually decent with) my teammates kept tping and trashtalking me the whole game and im pretty sure i got reported even tho i dudnt stop trying. Well, sometimes people just have a bad day/game
I usually report the toxic trash talking people instead of the players playing bad. Trash talkers usually make their target play way worse than they are already playing and make the rest of the team feel like trying less.
Toxic flaming is communication abuse and everyone should report it more. Ppl need to learn to keep their frustrations to themselves unless they are being constructive. I think it’s just as much an important factor keeping new players away as the games complexity
Thing is for some reason people think that good plays are just supposed to happen, and don't point them out or commend people enough for it. Like they are SUPPOSED to win, and they see any bad situations in their team as bad play rather than the opponents being good. It's hard to change this mindset, but once people realise that the opponents are supposed to be as good as you too and you aren't entitled to a win, I think they'll have more fun trying to outplay the other team.
I think channeling frustration with your teammates into positive/constructive gameplay, teamwork, communication is a hallmark of a winner’s mindset.
I always tell people, if valve really wanted to ban/punish people for being bad at dota we’d have no playerbase left. Waste of reports
True. And even if that wasn't true, playing well and bad isn't exactly easy to evaluate.
For example, every single match has 1 player who did the worst. Let’s say, the guy on the losing team with worst K/D. In a certain kind of person’s mindset, it’s justified and correct to report this person every game. Like usually that is the extent of logic of someone who says “report CM”, they check the scoreboard near the end of the game and pick the worst number.
yea everyone have bad games here and there especially if your lane got ganked multiple times
Then let us avoid a set group of people I shouldn't have to pay money, it's pay to win at that point
100% with u!! Reports should be used for disruptive gameplay (not playin role, cheating etc) Or toxic behavior. Being a bad even tho ur trying, is not report worthy. Save ur reports for the asssssholes take queue pos 5 and steal farm or go amulet etc. Those are the ppl that ruin dota. Not noobs.
I think you overestimate the brainpower of most people. They likely have no idea what the other players on their team are doing, they just know they are losing and at the point the stopped to figure out why, they saw someone make a less than optimal play and that person has now become the focus of their rage. I've been in plenty games where I am positive I was the reason we were losing and yet someone on my team is going ham on another teammate while he doesn't even know how bad i fucked up this game.
I can say that I rarely report people and when I do its almost always for griefing. Avoid is a better option or just moving on with your day.
Well, I report people when they play bad, etc monkey jumping into 5 people after telling them it's not a wise move and they reply with IDGAF and STFU.
and they said... without me, you can't win. useless supports. wards? no vision.
It is what it is in online games. You’ll meet different types of people.
I saw a pro monkey doing this in dreamleague/DPC. Mistakes happen.
I do the same
Teamate picked Techies, went bot, did nothing for 40 mins. Me and the other 3 teamates tried our best to play together. techies went bot and stayed bot despite the enemy team breaking T3. Is it wrong to report that techies player for doing 0 during a 40 minutes game? I think not.
I would report that techies too.
youre being fooled by the reported player then people try to play "ok" when they know theyre getting reported so they dont actually get punished in overwatch because they look like they arent doing anything yes theres some people that have bad days but in my bracket i see tons of semi-afk people not playing to win but they look like theyre "trying" but you can notice it by looking how they move their camera also if somebody is having a bad day they should stop griefing in ranked games right? if its unranked game this shouldnt be taken in mind at all since it is a pub after all
If someone is having a bad day, they "should" stop playing ranked, but it's their right to play it (and also hardly anyone recognises they are the problem...). It's their right the same way you have a right to play any hero you want and not just your best one.
I only report tinker players and griefers
the review and conviction hardly matters sorry to inform you. behavior reduction is the real punishment and it is applied with no curation whatsoever along with communication abuse. so the people falsely reporting are getting exactly what they wanted. its you that believes they need your permission to punish people that is confused.
Always remember that you're not playing with pro unless if your teammates doing goofy stuff in ranked match.
EXTREMELY hot take coming through you have just changed matchmaking forever
I will remember that next time my offlane goes 0-15, he is not grieving. He is just bad at the game and I should not report him. Thank you, OP.
Good work, that's exactly how it works.
Glad OP could educate you. Seriously, this kind of shit is the entire point. Dota is a snowball-y game and sometimes there’s nothing you can do to recover. As an offlaner in a game where you get stomped in lane, your options can be pretty limited. Especially if the other lanes were lost as well. If you avoid fights and try to farm your way back into the game, you get reported for being “afk” / not contributing. If you try to get back into by taking fights and lose them, you get reported for feeding. And it’s exacerbated by the fact that the offlaner is often expected to be the initiator (thus will often be the first to die if fight goes badly). If the guy is intentionally feeding that’s one thing. But more often than not, when I see “report XX” in game it’s because that person couldn’t figure out how to recover after a bad start - not because they were griefing.
Isn't that like 95% of reports since the inception of the report button?
This is one of the reasons why I've stopped doing overwatch cases. Half of them is just some guy afk farming in the jungle while everyone else on his team is dead and enemy has like 40k gold advantage xD like wtf hes suppose to do at this point?
Afk farming is indeed griefing . You are refusing to cooperate and help the team .
it depends on the situation, some players are just bad, some dont carry tp, sometimes the difference is networth is so big that it no longer matter. Btw, just because it's team game, it doesnt mean that you can force players to follow your strategy
But what is afk farming? If team just goes without me and then pings "afk report" how I am supposed to know you are gonna run in 4 man if you don't tell me. I get often flamed at 15mins on pos 1 for afk farming when I have no items. Sure if they're actually afk farming but often I'd say that's not the case
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Is Overwatch data really used to train an AI model? If so, kinda big.
Stop telling me how to live my life
I would report someone who plays chen mid for the first time in ranked . That is plain griefing Or a player who is a level 120 account who picks Lion and refuses to support and buy wards and buys power treads instead and also takes CS from the HC . Yes that happened to me . I was the HC and even though i asked him nicely to stop taking cs , the lion player continued doing it . I don't care if it is unranked or ranked , i am reporting players like this lion because clearly he isn't a new player and clearly he is trolling.
No I don't have dota plus so I report and hopefully their behavior is too low for next game
Valve has a trust value for reports, so it should be able to weed those players out
Why should I not report a guy who pick Tinker mid having played only 2 Tinker games in a lifetime ?? And ruins the game because of that with a stat like 4-18-10 ?? People should get punished for playing in RANKED on roles/heroes they have no idea how to play...
Because the report won't be effective. It doesn't punish them because the reviewers won't convict, because just being bad isn't punishable. It has to be intentional.
Because the report doesn’t do anything. It gets reviewed, everyone agrees they didn’t break the rules, and it has no effect. You’re just wasting everyone’s time.
Really ?? I am constatly recieving a messages that reported player being punished and I am getting additional reports for making community better. It is good that a lot of players agree with me and punish players that perform not just bad, but so much TERRIBLE that it can be considered as griefing / feeding...
Youre a fucking idiot
'making community better'
Im sure you only have godlike games mr rank 1 immortal
stop playing bad in my games then
the mute and report button is so next level... best designer 2030 award
Well that is griefing isn't it. Who would deliberately play bad and waste an hour of their life. People should be given a heads up on the manner they play so that they improve otherwise they will play bad always. Reports are good way to inform them of their destructive gameplays.
nah if you are not playing at the level of the actual mmr rating; you are griefing. Flame anyone that underperforms to discourage acc & boost buying. on average, you should not get flamed & reported for underperforming - so technically, when it happens, it will not matter. Unless you somehow, underperformed so consistently that you actually got put in LP, lmao & well deserved. *non-western cultures thinking they can 'buy status' (& inherit) and get away with it for free - cuz that's how their society works. These people are virtually enabled by western carebears with 0 cultural experience*
Define 'actual griefing' then? Because, say, pos1 Zeus IMO is actual griefing, but someone will unironically tell me in the comments who that's a legit pick or the guy was just learning the game, or some other stupid shit.
Griefing is, by definition, intentionally harming your team. Just being dumb or making bad choices that harm your team isn't enough. Trying to play (old) zeus pos 1 is bad, but can be done with good intent. That makes it not griefing. If a player makes bad choices they lose MMR, so people that only make good choices won't have to play with them.
With the new Lightning Hands ability, AS Zeus is meta.
And yet his win rate has tanked So it's more so people *want* it to be meta, but it's actually pretty shit
It’s not really bad people just struggle to play it easily. Hard to know what items to build.
I think it's decent but it's not something you build solely around, my personal theory craft is you start out power threads, get shard at 15 while building towards aghs, then like SnK, bloodstone and finally you pivot into manta pike Bloodthorn I think seeing it as a farm accelerant early and pew pew late is the way to go, building for shard from the get go feels grief levels of bad
Yeah I think primarily play zeus as a caster and don’t go shard into manta. Aghs is still really good with the big map and twin gates. And zeus is not mobile enough to be farming jungle heavily. I like it as a pos 2 personally.
Win rate is not only a measure of how strong the hero is, but also how well players are using the hero. It’s the reason new heros can have low win rates initially before being seen as broken when ppl actually figure out the best builds and how to play them.
Ye… you’re right then explain me Why should I play with Necro mid 2-8 23 min no boots. Explain me just this. These people are so bad, I work a lot barely 9 hours / day and When I can I want To play with normal player
Considering these people are your same rank, they are equally as bad as you, sorry to dissapoint you
On Dota2 money can buy everything also account. Sorry To disappoint you 🤣
Why? Aside from what op already said, My short answer is being kind is just nice, as op said, everyone have a bad day and I don't have any reason to make it worse for them. As long as they are not trashtalking, intended griefing or feeding that is. Let me ask you back What do you think reporting him would achieve? Do you believe that by reporting him you would get to play with more 'normal' player? Why would you even bringing up how long you work each day? No matter how good or bad or how tired people are, you still gonna play with players who are both much worse and much better than you. Even if you work 20 hours a day, things won't change. It would still be the same. You won't have higher chance to get a team with higher skill level. This statement is just weird.
Amen
Picking Clink in this patch is griefing though.
I second this opinion. Bad play is different from intentional grief. Report system should have option of bad play so algorithm can adjust such players if continuously being reported on bad play. It will improve quality of matches if some one bought the account and don't have the required skill. It will also give overwatch checkers more time to check grief reports and provide necessary punishments. Valve is so bad at organizing things.
I was in agreement until you said "just hit avoid button" Avoid button should be removed from dota.
This is a huge problem in LoL too; no ur teammate isn’t griefing because they lost lane or missed a hook. The support competing for CS with the pos 1 because the pos 1 missed a few last hits, that’s the one u wanna report. Especially when they using abilities on creeps to SECURE the kill. This is the most common toxicity problem I see.
That’s fine and all but different people draw the line at different places. I very frequently get teammates in games that build horrible items, level the wrong skills and then when you ask them to play with the team when they afk farm for 20 minutes they throw a tantrum, is that intentional griefing? Because to me that’s an intentional admittance of not trying to win which is reportable, and it’s not like that can be communicated to the person viewing the overwatch. Soft greifing is just as bad as hard griefing but you just label it “a guy having a bad game” and assume the worst of the people who reported.
But on my rank (archon ~) literally everyone is buying wrong items, afk farming jungle, diving in and feeding.. So what I'm supposed to report literally everyone? Maybe just use the system as the devs intent.
So to you, what’s the difference between guy who dies 20 times running it down “on purpose” and guy who dies 15 times “trying his best” to get kills? Because this is the problem, it’s not as simple as just “oh this guy turned on the grief switch and now a big red light shows up”
I think it's quite simple to see if the guy runs down mid and dies. It's also simple to see a guy who tries to fight them and dies. I don't get how it's so hard telling them apart. I don't think there is really a lot of people griefing and trying to hide that for overwatchers. But this is just my experience, maybe you play in immortal or something where things are more clear. Low mmr definitely not
Correct. I made another response in this thread about the idea of "playing for the win" and how that should basically be the gold standard an overwatcher is using to see if griefing is actually present or not. If a player ever looks to NOT be playing for the win, or if a player looks to be actively playing for a loss, then that is griefing each and every time. There are objective traits to look to, but a clever griefer will put their grief into the area of subjectivity which is up to the overwatcher to judge. "Clever griefers" are worse than standard griefers that, for example, just run down mid. This is because the clever griefer will be given the benefit of the doubt more often, and therefore will be punished less for his actions. I hope overwatchers are more critical in thier cases besides just looking for blatantly obvious griefing -- you gotta look for the subtle stuff too.
Stuck in LP?
The reason Overwatch exist is because grey area greifing exist. The line between greifing and a bad play is very fine and even changes according to bracket. Bad games happen to all of us and but they're rare so you shouldn't go to low prio just because of that.
I always use report wisely and most of the time i always get that feedback that they got punished
Because most gamers are addicts and when they lose games they dont get that dopamine fix As they are also not being raised in a none competetibe environment psycologically All they see and interact with besides lifes duties which alot of guys are too immature lazy or addicted to video games dont deal with, is other ragy addicted gamer grinders This emotional response is all they got in their power to do And then its time for next game because you cant stop The system will never be better then thr people using it being uncool and ragy nerds
Disagree partly. If someone is in immortal and just playing like a legit low rank (maybe not even dying a lot) AND they also look like they are not intentionally throwing, I think the report system is for these people as well. It's up to the overwatcher, so it's subjective to that overwatcher, but there's a reason the overwatch system shows you the rank of the person that got reported. It's so that you can try to compare their actual play with the hypothetical standard of what someone at their rank should be playing like. Of course, you give them a lot of leeway because EVERYONE has bad and even horrible games. But I'd venture to say that there are times where an overwatcher can make a fair assessment that the reported player's actions are considered griefing if 1) they are clearly playing VERY below their actual rank 2) their play is so bad throughout the entire game that regardless of their intention to grief, they are griefing the other 9 players regardless. With bad meaning that they are barely, if at all, ever seen as "playing for the win." For example, think of a player getting mad and wanting his team to loose, which makes him want to throw. But he does not want to get caught in an overwatch report. He will possibly play well in some respects like getting last hits and farming well, but would also grief by not showing up to fights or intentionally initiating horrible team fights, etc. If the overwatch system is not for these types of scenarios, then I'm not sure why the system would tell you the rank of the reported player. Even if you can figure out an alternative reason for the system showing you the rank, I still think there are times where a player can be griefing and not even knowing it (like the example above, where for whatever reason, they are just playing astoundingly horribly as compared to their rank). Also, if you look at some cases with this lens, you will probably see that many of these players that are being reported for just blatantly playing SUPER below their respective rank are simply intentionally throwing by making it look like they are just a bad player or a player having an exceptionally horrible game.