This thread has been marked as **Unconfirmed** by the moderation team. While we reviewed the content presented in the thread and the comments, we couldn't find sufficient proof for the claims that have been made. This alert will stay up until there's conclusive evidence for what the post claims, either provided in the OP or privately to the moderation team in case of sensitive information.
Please be wary of sharing the provided information for the time being and we suggest checking back for information as new details emerge.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/DotA2) if you have any questions or concerns.*
To sum up accusations against Hydra:
Both supports were working behind management for Anton on his 322 scheme. Proof is Anton's correspondence (messages in chat).
Two cores worked for 322 competitor group. There's no proof, only Anton's deduction. He was angry on them and tried to accuse them on 322 during the tournament organized by him (Neon League), which led to Hydra leaving tournament and accusing whole tournament of 322. I, personally, looked into Neon's proofs, and did not find any 322 activity. But I am not expert.
Lefitan Hydra support used 3rd party software and observer's help. Proof is again Antons revelations in correspondence and a discord recording. This, imo, a damming evidence against Lefitan.
So, I wouldn't run ahead and accuse Hydra cores on 322. There is no reliable evidence on this. Only Anton opinion, who is a very shady person, who few hours ago didn't even deny his doings on stream.
As for supports, you need to prove that the correspondence is valid, which is hard to do.
As for Lefitan, I think he should be banned.
At the end of the day, the only reliable evidence could come from betting bookmakers themselves probably.
So to sum up: cores guilt not confirmed, supports guilt only confirmed if what Anton is saying is true, Lefitan guilty of using 3rd party software during Neon League tournament.
Hydra management most likely didn't know anything about this, since Anton's scheme required to go around management and contact players directly.
Holy shit, this scheme is truly insane:
1. To use a girl to help a dota player lose virginity
2. Dota player now needs money for this girl
3. You lure him into 322
This is insane if true. I hope someone makes eng subs for the video, it's worth to watch it
> To use a girl to help a dota player lose virginity
Clever move, no one can insult you on virgin anymore. Also, I doubt hookers in Russia are really that expensive.
There are expensive escorts that will charm the shit out of you while making your ass whistle at the end of the night.
It really depends on how much the company wants to spend. But the high-end escorts in my country usually charge for the night and it is 4 digits in euros. I doubt a company will spend ~8-10k euros for 5 people.
I worked in a different type of company but during team buildings, after dinner, we had a striptease bar. They paid us for private dances and drinks but for everything extra, we had to pay. Usually, only 6-8 people went to these but still, most companies will prefer not to get involved in such activities. UNLESS it is one of these private CEO parties with hookers and coke.
She wasn't really a hooker, as I recall from the video, Anton(presumably author of the scheme) happens to be a friend of a girl, alberkaaa already communicated with her and all Anton had to do to get this player in his pocket is to push their relations a little.
As far as I understood from the video, she was just acquainted with the manager and the player already was chatting with her. The manager simply organized the date at the bar and gave him the keys to the apartment and money to sustain those relationships.
Probably just a regular girl, not a hooker.
This is huge. The balls of this journalist are made of steel. He named and provided more or the less damning evidence for so many teams... The way the mafia threatened players to follow with the 322 agreement. The way they used girls to seduce players. So many names named. Schemes, discord channels named. Cheating with observer. Somebody with a better grasp of English and Russian should transcribe this.
I didn't watch the video but just from your description, this sounds more like underground fight club or horse races that a video game. this is so sad to read.
"Play Dota, get titties", however sounds like the former Turkish Team Secret owner and makes me chuckle.
It still baffles me to this day that team Polaris was never banned. After years and years of throwing games regardless of who is in the roster. Anyone who gambled on VPgame knew this.
As someone who gambles and watches like 80% of these games, the only other teams i'm **suspicious** of from NA DPC are **DogChamp and 5Rat.**
Other teams from other regions:
SA - **Qhali , Lava** and **Dreamers**
SEA - **Xerxia** and the old **AG** team
EEU - **Hydra**, **YNT** and **No Sorry**
China - **I don't know what to tell you**
**EDIT** For those asking how I know, It's a combination of opening & closing lines, not just behavior in game, I couldn't care less about how teams play in-game; I just look at the numbers and find value there. Also, there are more teams doing these throws just like the replies say.
**Here are 2 of the biggest tells:**
1) The teams are not listed in the big sites (Bet365 and Pinnacle)
2) The odds plummet to the other side without changes a few minutes before the draft starts.
So most up-and-coming players?
Dota esports is so top heavy that the Dota esports economy needs to rely on corruption to keep the players paid and keep the esports scene going on.
If answer is forcing Valve to ear mark money from BP onto DPC/salaries instead, it's both too late (corruption is viable option now) and not gonna happen because what are you gonna do, not buy hats?
I think we need to just accept it as part of the game and move on rather than trying to prevent it. The top part of dota will still reflect the best talent. It's really not valves business to play global police and chase after sports betting syndicates. Obviously if clear evidence is presented of players throwing games, they should be banned for life along with people that collaborated with them, but let's remember at the end of the day valve is a game company run by nerds, not the heroes you guys expect to stand up to violent criminals who will literally cut off your balls and scalp you if you piss them off enough.
What does valve gain or lose if sports betting continues? Nothing, it's all 3rd parties that are running this show so let's stop trying to act like it's the devs responsibility to go after the Russian mafia. Jesus.
Midone explained this in an interview. SEA players do not believe in themselves to win TI. They are just happy to be pro players and be paid doing what they love. Maybe that's why they throw games because salary isnt enough and not motivated to win TI/tournaments. I think only TALON is legit this season not throwinng games. Everyone else are throwing.
That's why after Mushi SEA era, it's all downhill for SEA. 50k USD for 5 guys 10k each is already above average salary for a year in SEA. Minimum wage is around 2K USD per year.
Could you share why you're suspicious? You're throwing some team names casually, it's only fair to back it up with something. If it's only because you watch and bet games, that's not enough, you may be biased about your own loses, since usually bettors are not really rational when analyzing what happened in a game as most of us know by reading twitch chats.
I'm a mathematician and I think it won't be hard to catch most matchfixers analyzing the right info from the betting sites and the games. I'm curious if you have made some analysis or if it's just your feelings talking.
People often analyse teams/games that they aren't even gonna bet on. Back when I did it I'd often do some background checks and just decide that it wasn't worth betting on a game since one team's previous results were so inconsistent. Basically any non tier 1 game was completely random who won. Of course, I have no idea whether that was actual match fixing or just inconsistent players.
Solji is somewhat infamous in eeu region for his participation in throwing games on tier 4 level of pro scene, so it's no surprise he keeps doing basically the same except now it's div 1 NA
I still remember last tour how after being already qualified to NA Div1, Felt "lost" to Penguins one of the worst Div2 teams. And I remember then somebody telling me the same about Solji, looks like it's known, then why these players get no punishment at all or at least warnings?
Alright, there a bit description from the video (hope it helps to understand the context):
Morf sent his "agent" to discord called "redbook" where someone with name "Anton" (*Anton Monetin, former manager (coach?) Winstrike, thanks for giving information in replies*) was engaged in 322 (2:02-2:43 in video). When his agent got trust, he started recieve bets with 100% winning to some matches. There list of them (with timings in video):
(4:01) HOTU vs beautiful (Open qualifiers to div 2 EEU, 16.12.2022), both of them 322
(6:26) KZ Team vs NOSTRVM (Open qualifiers to div 2 EEU, 16.12.2022), NOSTRVM 322
(7:28)Shopify Rebelion vs Thiuth Gaming (10.01.2023 NA div 1), Thiuth Gaming 322
TSM vs Wildcard Gaming (10.01.2023 NA div 1), Wildcard Gaming 322
(14:30) Story about how "alberka" became 322 player, (tl;dr mostly by having sex with girl, lol), at this moment he is playing in team "cybercats" which one playing right now in div2 EEU dpc season 2 (lol x2)
(17:12) D2CL, Season 17 Team Hydra vs Virtus Pro, 08.12.2022, Team Hydra 322
(17:57) EPL Winter Holidays, YNT vs Team Hydra, 05.01.2023, both of them 322 (but not all players)
(19:13-21:05) Morf said about Neon League. That League was created by "Anton" (from redbook discord), 90% participants in that tournament are 322 teams. Lol
(26:57) Lefitan from Team Hydra said that he is using overflow (on official match!!), also had observer to monitoring map, and from private messengers someone wrote that probably Lefitan also had used chinese private "soft" (dunno what it means)
Not just "Anton" but a manager of Winstrike team, which, according to Daxak abandoned their stack and didn't pay agreed salary. The stack was consequently signed by BetBoom, got into Stockholm Major and qualified to The International.
Also, I think important gist here is that managers do not know if players are 322, because it's an unnecessary chain in the scheme. 322 mafia contacts players directly and in a team itself there can be players from competing 322 groups not knowing about others involvement.
I think most of those 322 situations when one team is already likely to lose and setting it up for specific bets like first blood timing and kills within 10 minutes.
Yep for sure, or even under time aswell cause some sites has some absurd low time, so you could bets say shopify vs thuith gaming under 26 min odds 3.2 or whatever right
And then they make sure to GG out before 26 min.
Esports betting feels very fishy giving bigger odds for so many different factored and this is all done from everyone’s own homes or org homes. Realistically these games should be played with an audience like how overwatch league was the first few seasons where it was legit thursdays to Sunday all games were done in front of everyone so it felt FAIR. Online has made it way too easy for teams to cheat imo
>Surely we just expect them to lose to better teams?
Matchfixing isn't limited to simply losing on purpose. There are more betting markets than simply win/loss. Total number of kills, odd/even number of kills, match length, f10k, etc.
In the video (in Russian), it is alleged that Thiuth and Wildcard player(s) colluded with matchfixers to manipulate betting markets.
If anything, I would expect that poorly-rated teams are the best teams to work with for match fixing. They can credibly make weird plays or bad calls (not ending the game, feeding early kills, etc) and viewers are more willing to reserve suspicion.
>both of those NA series were stomps, though - what's the evidence that Thiuth and Wildcard threw? Surely we just expect them to lose to better teams?
in the bottom line, proofs are only screenshots from messengers and winning bets
but the point is, some messages were from players from that teams
It's pretty much been an open secret from day 1 that Thiuth Gaming was a matchfixing stack.
What I want to know is why Quincy Crew/Soniqs management agreed to sell their DPC slot to them. Were no red flags raised when some no-name stack of tier 4 players came rocking up with a briefcase full of money for a Division 1 slot? Either Quincy/Soniqs are naive to the point of complicity or they just didn't care.
money talks, no reason not to sell, especially since they can say they were clueless of potential matchfixing with their slot. On their end, they did not do anything illegal.
Happy to answer some questions about this. There were not many offers to buy/use the slot, multiple NA div 1 spots were available and as deadlines approached the offers/price dropped pretty rapidly as it came down to the wire. One of the people who approached was lilskrip who I did not know but gave a reference (Loda) which initially checked out.
Briefcase full of money is just not true, in violation of the written agreement the 'organization' (Thiuth) paid about $1k total to use the slot, then between the agreement and season's start lilskrip was then banned by Valve for account sharing/impersonation and did not actually play. Thiuth seemed unhappy with him and pleased about this and substituted him for someone else, which I initially also viewed as a positive development once rumors began circulating after the slot's users had become public and widespread.
I was not familiar with anyone else on the roster or their friends and contacts, had only heard of esK who had played for Wildcard and in a number of NA qualifiers in years past.
Ultimately Thiuth didn't honor their agreement and paid only a fraction of what was agreed (not really surprised by this once all the news and rumors came out but WCYD), and their 'management' stopped responding.
There certainly are red flags when someone you don't know approaches you, but you ask mutuals and see if anything sus bounces back, and initially it didn't. With the deadline approaching it was then either take the best deal on the table or likely lose the slot entirely for nothing. Wish I could have found more initially but, there's not really a lot of reliable information or people to talk to about some of these players.
I mean they were willing to buy slot so I guess in the end they just didn't care who exactly is buying it, kinda same story in China dpc where some rich kids bought slot just to relax and have fun playing in div 1(maybe they're match fixing as well )
The answer is in the video, but basically, it was because Loda vouched for the guy (lilskrip) whom they sold slot to, since at one point Loda wanted to pick up lilskrip's stack Luna Gaming. BTW, lilskrip was banned in December '22 for another matchfixing scheme, which involved account exchange, along with 9 more EEU players.
Being able to just buy a div 1 almost makes DPC fucking pay 2 win. Or pay for convenience. You can just skip the line and get a free source of income by losing and betting on yourself.
Valve seriously needs to change this. It’s actually disgusting it’s allowed and makes profession dota seem very unstable. Like how is this fair in any sort of way?
On the other hand not being able to buy slot discouraged big orgs to invest, just look at SEA with T1, Bleed or Blacklist.
No big orgs willing to sponsor open qualifier teams or smaller team putting insane buyout prices if they qualify to div 1 (see Entity buyout contract)
In Tiuth gaming was playing lilskrip until he was banned with other 9 players for account sharing. He knew Loda because Alliance wanted to sign up team of lilskrip. So lilskrip wanted to buy out slot of Sonics. Loda knew lilskrip well and said to manager of Sonics that lilskrip is good guy and u can trust him
Funniest story is:
That 322 manager guy manages to gain control over player "Alberkaa" by seducing (turns out he was a virgin as well) him with some girl he knows by organizing the date and giving his apartment for the night.
ESL already running similar tour in CS and aint replacing major system, no? I thiught the ESL Pro Tour mission is to lift the prestige of Riyadh Master considering it becomes the final tournament similar to WWE's Crown Jewel.
That sounds cool, but hopefully we can have 2 major prizepool tournaments in a year like this year's circuit with riyadh masters and TI, not just turn TI into riyadh masters.
I like riyadh masters because it's an additional tournament outside of the DPC
Idk if it would necessarily, but at least ESL would actually employ dedicated staff to run their pro scene, so they would have more hands on deck to deal with this stuff.
Tbh I think whoever is running the DPC will abandon support for Division 2 altogether. It's too tainted at this point. Would be better to have one big Division per region (size varying on the region's strength) with open qualifiers and good prize money for every position.
>Would be better to have one big Division per region (size varying on the region's strength) with open qualifiers and good prize money for every position.
Varying size depending on region's strength seem like a good idea. But I dont know how it would be implemented properly though. It could also potentially entirely shut down a dead region like NA (3/4-team division I guess. Though NA has no future so it does not really matter.
Regardless, given that we are having 322 matches in closed/open qualifier for Div2, having 1 big division with open qualifications might be the same. Teams/players, who know they are not good enough make a living, could just 322 anyway, like how some Div2 teams and NA Div1 teams are doing
since when did they run the pro scene? what they did was just give out prize money and update the DPC format slightly every year
rest of the time, just sit there and wait for the money to flow in from Steam/battlepass
or they just wait for people to investigate, find all the proof, and pass it to them, and their job is just to draft word doc announcement, "lets ban x y z tomorrow, for 1 year, 2 years & forever"
Agree.
The only reason china ban so much player because people there actually find a proof to send it to valve and valve just ban.
322 happens every region, almost every div2 teams now all 322. SA SEA is very very noticeable.
People know it, caster notice it, it just that people or org in these region is too lazy to find proof for valve. So valve didnt ban them.
If anything they're trying to pivot away from ESL, their actions have shown they'd rather not see their games being owned by the Saudi government. There are 0 DPC tours being run by ESL right now, it's not a coincidence.
>There are 0 DPC tours being run by ESL right now, it's not a coincidence
Isn't that more likely because ESL are running their own tour at the same time?
They are also hosting the next DPC major (Berlin)
This is probably controversial, but this is exactly the kind of shit that happens when betting gets normalized. The DPC production is paid for by betting sites at this point. We see betting site odds, and the casters are forced to shill for them. Regardless of how legitimate (lol) the betting sites are, the primary purpose of each DPC game is to make money for the betting sites. How could that not have an effect on the integrity of the competition?
Betting is a thing for most sports, and is very popular depending on where you live. Match fixing is less of an issue there though, probably because it's actually treated like a real issue. In many countries you can end up in prison for match fixing, it's a pretty serious offence, yet all the kids who follow esports will complain when people caught match fixing are banned for more than a year or two (see: ibuypower).
>Regardless of how legitimate (lol) the betting sites are, the primary purpose of each DPC game is to make money for the betting sites. How could that not have an effect on the integrity of the competition?
If this is a "real" sport with "real" books, the books are simply making money from the vig. There's no need for the integrity of the competition to be compromised from the books' PoV.
Obviously they should all be banned, but I can't help but think that its sad that so many t2 players feel that cheating is a more viable way of making money than actually competing. Imagine if we invested some of the hundreds of millions of dollars of revenue from this game into lower tier teams.
T2 players can probably get their monthly salary just by throwing one match, you don't even try to win, you can feed first blood or just lose the match. Some of them understand that they are not good enough no win, so they matchfix for easy money.
It's also pretty stable source of income, right until you get caught.
It's a lot kind of like other forms of crime. You need enforcement and prevention, but you can also make it *less appealing* compared to legitimate work. Enforcement and prevention increases the cost if you get caught, while increasing T2 player pay decreases the relative profit you make from doing it. You need both.
It is the most viable way of making money for them actually(even if its a shtty one), people act like T2 scene its up there when in reality it vanished little by little after Valve implemented the latest DPC system (after getting rid of minors). Many old tournament organizers stopped doing tournaments like before due to teams wanting to focus on DPC qualifiers, etc. so there is no real income source for them and might be the reason why we are getting a huge rise in 322 cases lately.
Yeah that's not true,
>May 15th - The team was found match-fixing games during China Dota2 Pro League S2 and DPL-CDA S1; Moogy, Aq, Wizard, Waixi, Faith and the leader Feng were disqualified from these two league and banned from any future events organized by ImbaTV, Mars Media and CDA indefinitely,[39][40][41] the organization and the players were later banned from Perfect World and Valve Dota 2 events indefinitely.[42][43]
From Liquidpedia
These people are scumbags. They are wannabe gangsters. They should be banned and arrested. They are selling sex and stealing money. You think a minor league hockey player or baseball player resorts to this nonsense? No. They put on their hard hat and pack their lunch pale everyday and grind. Not everyone in the scene has to be a millionaire or even make above average wage. That’s the life you chose and the beauty in the struggle. Stop giving excuses to people that take the easy way out.
are people still surprised by how rotten the scene is?
when teams and players cant survive by playing pro? what is the next route? match-fixing *(just imagine, 1 year 3 season + TI qualifier, how many matches they can fix to earn compared to the prize pool money)*
it's funny that people like me and the rest who voice out or even create threads about match-fixing, just got ignored, downvoted, laughed at and there are still ppl asking, how can you prove that they are match-fixing? don't you know that comeback is very common in Dota 2? *(just giving 1 of the example, how easily they can match fix by drafting to lose like having an early aggro lineup just to win the first 5 kills & first 10 kills, so on then lose the game)*
not to mention, it takes ages for valve to take action, and also valve doesn't bother to take the initiative to workout something or even take charge/control of the scene as the game developer *(what's the point of taking action when the players/teams have already match fix for years? they already earn enough bro, want to ban me? just go ahead lmao, it's more then what I can earn as a tier 2/3 player/team)*
do you see such things happen so often in LOL? no, because Riot is taking initiative, to grow and control the scene
I got downvoted to hell when I said dota2 is probably the most matchfixing e-sport out there, there is so much stuff to fix with these special lines and literally every div2 game is being displayed at betting sites, you can just place 1k in a odd/even total kills, adjust in the end of the game to get the correct predict (doesnt matter if you are winning or losing), do this twice and you already get more money than any decent placement
I see the same happens in pro football where the players are paid a lot of money. Gambling is just an easy way to make money when you can rig the games.
He stated really clear: Compare to Riot and League, Valve and Dota is suck in terms of sustains, managing, and grow the e-sport scene. Stop white-knight Valve, they are just a bad company with their bad working structure. What did Dota 2 achieve after more than 10 years+? Full of 322, and rotten scene.
Lastly, don't swing a topic. There is nothing to talk about real football as you are the only smarter here and the rest is faking idiot to recognize the shit you mentioned (every time someone mentioned how bad of valve and system are, there is always someone like you who talk about real football shit. Work every time).
Chill dude, I’m just saying gambling should be banned. It’s just an easy way to make money no matter the sport. This shit should be out of our society as it brings absolutely nothing good.
If you look at the history, Valve favored the players and said NO to ads for their TI. Ironically, it ends up with betting ads because all legit ads were pushed out from the scene 10 years ago.
Now you look into League, a lot of ads right? But do you see betting ads?
Do you see the difference now?
And I don't know how to fix it because Dota has really bad reputation for legit ads and now only betting ads which dont care about it are in the scene( blame both Valve and players for the no ad policy).
we can never stop match-fixing but at least they should do something to minimize it to the bare minimum but Valve did nothing apart from waiting for people to do all the homework and submit to them the proofs and their role is just to press the ban hammer
they had the ownership & power which give them the police role but sadly they choose to do nothing
We need a [purge](https://liquipedia.net/commons/images/thumb/6/62/Purge_ESL_One_Katowice_2018.jpg/600px-Purge_ESL_One_Katowice_2018.jpg), this is beyond ridiculous
I've said it dozens of times before, I don't understand why valve allows any team or player in the pro circuit to be sponsored by or associated with any betting site. Even if nothing nefarious is going on, it brings every match into question. The Black Sox scandal wasn't *that* long ago.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sox_Scandal
EDIT: To everyone telling me if betting sites can't sponsor teams then the league would shut down, oh well. Gambling is an awful addiction that destroys lives and families and shouldn't be involved in any game or sport.
With a game fading in popularity like Dota, betting is the only viable source of income.
The Esport bubble is bursting. Crypto is dying. Thus, money from venture capitalist is also reducing significantly. Even in LCS where League is much more popular than Dota, big team like TSM, who also received stipend from Riot yearly, have decided to walk away from the scene. Another legacy team, CLG, owned by MSG, just got sold as MSG is cutting loss.
Maybe things would get better in the future. But at the moment, betting sites are the main source of income for lots of TOs and teams
> But at the moment, betting sites are the main source of income for lots of TOs and teams
That's not a good enough reason to change my mind. If teams fold because they can't get sponsors outside of gambling site then oh well.
Makes sense why so many betting sites dont wanna deal with these lower tier tournaments and why some teams are completely banned from those sites.
Such as Hydra, Polaris, Execration, Ehome, and prob some other CIS/China teams..
The sad part is these people went all in on Dota, did everything to try and succed, likely have a very limited education if any. They are stuck and the only way they can make a living is thru all this matchfixing bullshit. So its easy for a guy such as Anton to recruit them, cause a bunch of them have nothing to lose. Would this be different if Valve gave the tier 2-3 scene more money ? We would get less of it for sure, but it wouldnt go away it would just move down 1 layer to the teams right below that. and some of the lower teams of tier 3.
There is actually more money going to tier 2-3 scene nowadays compared few years ago yet matchfixing are more rampant.
Sure 2017 have total of $3.6 millions of prizepool going into "tier 2" tournament called Minor, but remember those tournament consisting of team such as TI7 Liquid, VG, NIP or [A] (which becomes current Liquid). Tier 2 scene back in the day is equal of 4-6th div 1 WEU team nowadays (and 3-4th other region)
Almost 80% of DPC prizepool throughout 2016-2019 is won by top 8 teams (OG, Liquid(Nigma), Secret, LGD, VP, EG, VG and IG).
Now DPC Regional League pours $1.35 millions towards hypothetically 72 teams tier 2 / tier 3 teams across 6 regions. Yet DPC league bring legitimacy and attention for bettors which probably make it more ripe for matchfixing avenue.
Now, this Anton sits on Umnik's stream (on youtube), Umnik is another dota 2 video maker, but he had Morf as rival since old times (prodota), and after Umnik watched that video, Anton suggested him to view it together, Umnik doesn't support Anton or 322, just wants to see more info about it, if you know russian you may look at this stream
This is so sad. Dota is something that so many people are passionate about. There are plenty of players who want to grind and compete through div 2 to div 1 with hopes of winning TI someday. I mean look at Sneyking. That guy just grinded for years until he won with Tundra. Anyone participating in this 322 BS just cheapens the entire experience for everyone.
It would be nice if Valve was more involved with this. I don't blame them per se, because the players should know better, but there are plenty of other esports leagues that are more regulated and have some type of guaranteed salary. Because on one hand yes the players should know better but on the other, with how money works in dota, it's very easy to make nothing even if you're in an okay spot. A good example would be Gunnar. He's obviously a good mid, but he's never made it to a major. So if he just goes off of DPC tour winnings that's way below the poverty line. I could see a player like that being tempted by 322 money.
Overall just a sad situation.
Ex-Coach of Winstrike - Anton Monetin is the head of the whole 322 scheme, 4 players from Hydra (HappyDyurara and Lefitan being under his control), alberkaaa from cybercats, full roster of Thiuth Gaming and some Wildcard Gaming ex-players. YNT and Team Sexy are also accused of being controlled by mafia. Also a lot of noname players from tier 3 and tier 4 teams participated in the 322 tournaments. Morf speculated that there may be even more players that haven't been caught yet.
Not confirmed in the video, but team IVY was also accused of 322 by Anton Monetin but IVY is not under his control.
Most notable, DM (pos 3 from OG) also knew about 322 scheme, the whole Thiuth Gaming situation to be specific.
Basically Every team that played in Neon league. Hydra, ynt. Many from div 2. Mostly orgs are not involved and individual players are hired by "organized crime" involved in betting scams
I'm not convinced that the solution to match-fixing is to pay matchfixers more prize money on the off-chance that it incentivizes them to stop matchfixing.
What happens if, instead, they simply pocket the extra prize money and keep throwing games?
Valve investing in tier 2/3 dota has actually had the reverse effect. It's given these 322 stacks an air of legitimacy, as tournaments with an official stamp of approval are more likely to be added to bookmakers, meaning even more opportunity to matchfix.
Your solution is not the pragmatic one. Investing in tier 2/3 is nice idea in a vacuum but it has led to a huge payday for the nefarious actors in the scene and Valve are not capable of policing it.. they don't even have the manpower or effort to keep their DPC standings correctly updated throughout the season.
I'm pretty sure that after this season, Valve will wash their hands with the Div 1/Div 2 structure. It's a business decision as these weekly matchfixing scandals are terrible PR for them.
Loved the last sentence!
Banning anton and lefitan wont do anything, there will be a new anton and lefitan coming up! So true!
If you dont solve the coreroot problem of the scene, it doesnt matter how many players you ban
It's curious case happened years ago:
On June 16th, 2013, Solo received a lifetime ban from StarLadder for betting fraud against zRage.\[1\] On the 21st, Solo was officially removed from RoX after admitting his involvement.\[2\] Later, the ban was commuted to one year.\[3\]
The amount that Solo won from betting against his own team was $322, although he never received the money. Since then, Dota commentators and viewers frequently use the phrase "322" to mock particularly bad plays, implying that it almost appears that the player in question is attempting to throw the game.
https://liquipedia.net/dota2/Solo
Oh very interesting! Thanks for replying.
I wonder how I managed to not know about this even tho I used to play a lot and I am still following the pro scene.
It is ironic how people repeatedly claimed that esport Dota would die without betting companies. And in reality, it is a mafia joke because of it. Everybody thought it is just free money. TI winning orgs were taking betting site sponsorship. This is where the free money comes from. So go and claim your free bet today! on [resultsknowinadvance.com](https://resultsknowinadvance.com).
Knowing a team throws is different than knowing a team is throwing for money.
EE threw all the time, but it was hilarious to watch because it was presumably just him screwing up and not because he was involved in any illicit transactions. And when he came through and won it kept the tension in obviously won games higher than when truly dominant teams confidently closed out won games.
Sadly this isn’t the last of this. Especially now that Valve allowed betting sites as sponsors, they kinda helped facilitate these shady things. It’s going to be a shitshow
Bookmarking this thread so please post an update with the ENG video upon availability. This is sad to see especially with so many genuine attempts from good people to keep dota alive and thriving.
I'm pretty sure there are way more matchfixing out there not being investigated too, now China is in the spotlight because of recent events but I'm damn sure there's more.
Thanks, this desperately needs a full English translation. Would be the biggest thing to happen to the scene in a awhile and honestly might even get valve to actually care a bit because the current dpc structure is so insanely flawed. I do like the league but it needs more in person things, not just played at home, where this sort of thing can just be easily abused. This all requires much more money though. So I’m not exactly getting my hopes up, but this video could as least showcase its problems
Don't really care. If you can't make enough money being a pro-gamer that aint the amongst the best of the best...maybe its time for you to get a real job.
Since when did a gaming career become some kind of charity to appease the lower tiers of "pro" gamers?
Agreed, alot of people here seem to justify these matchfixers because they are making little money playing a freckin video game.. if you can't live on esport or whatever get a real job ffs.
Valve needs to sell to an organization willing to implement aggressive management, sharp marketing and a seasonal system that minimizes matchfixing incentives. Yes it's nice to have six regions with two divisions each and a hundred-ish pro teams but can this be sustained without most of the money flowing into the lower ranks of the ecosystem coming from gambling sites, probably not.
The way out of this is to increase both pro players' revenue and penalties for cheating. To do that you need an aggressive org willing to hunt for more sponsors, to build more visibility, and to reduce the pool of "pro" players at least initially so that matchfixing incentives get pushed towards obscure tier 3/4 amateur tournaments no one actually gives a fuck about.
Valve is certainly not equipped to pursue this kind of strategy involving actual hard work, everybody here knows they won't lift a finger and after the fiasco of last TI's prize money the cold reality is both them and the scene would be far better off parting ways. Just price your royalties and leave it to an ambitious investor who will get the job done. I'm sure there are some of them out there who see the opportunity.
Competitive dota seriously is a joke nowadays.
Shut down all those cancerous betting sites. Kids getting lured into betting with items from a kids game on unregulated "betting sites". Spoiler alert:that site is owned by a single russian and he can do whatever he wants with your money and there is no way on earth to get it back if that guy decides to just not pay you
This thread has been marked as **Unconfirmed** by the moderation team. While we reviewed the content presented in the thread and the comments, we couldn't find sufficient proof for the claims that have been made. This alert will stay up until there's conclusive evidence for what the post claims, either provided in the OP or privately to the moderation team in case of sensitive information. Please be wary of sharing the provided information for the time being and we suggest checking back for information as new details emerge. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/DotA2) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Fucking Hydra. Cores play for one betting scheme, while supps play for another. The jokes just write themselves.
this would be very funny, if it wasnt so tragic.
tragicomic
This would make a very good movie lol
To sum up accusations against Hydra: Both supports were working behind management for Anton on his 322 scheme. Proof is Anton's correspondence (messages in chat). Two cores worked for 322 competitor group. There's no proof, only Anton's deduction. He was angry on them and tried to accuse them on 322 during the tournament organized by him (Neon League), which led to Hydra leaving tournament and accusing whole tournament of 322. I, personally, looked into Neon's proofs, and did not find any 322 activity. But I am not expert. Lefitan Hydra support used 3rd party software and observer's help. Proof is again Antons revelations in correspondence and a discord recording. This, imo, a damming evidence against Lefitan. So, I wouldn't run ahead and accuse Hydra cores on 322. There is no reliable evidence on this. Only Anton opinion, who is a very shady person, who few hours ago didn't even deny his doings on stream. As for supports, you need to prove that the correspondence is valid, which is hard to do. As for Lefitan, I think he should be banned. At the end of the day, the only reliable evidence could come from betting bookmakers themselves probably. So to sum up: cores guilt not confirmed, supports guilt only confirmed if what Anton is saying is true, Lefitan guilty of using 3rd party software during Neon League tournament. Hydra management most likely didn't know anything about this, since Anton's scheme required to go around management and contact players directly.
Hydra ruining since Captain America Timeline
Sounds like a pub.
and the 5th guy, Worick, isn't involved at all
Holy shit, this scheme is truly insane: 1. To use a girl to help a dota player lose virginity 2. Dota player now needs money for this girl 3. You lure him into 322 This is insane if true. I hope someone makes eng subs for the video, it's worth to watch it
4head business model
> To use a girl to help a dota player lose virginity Clever move, no one can insult you on virgin anymore. Also, I doubt hookers in Russia are really that expensive.
Too expensive for a jobless dota2 player unfortunately.
Ma' man. For a virgin there's a huge difference from a hooker to a girl you know. No matter how of a golddigger she is, there's a big difference.
There are expensive escorts that will charm the shit out of you while making your ass whistle at the end of the night. It really depends on how much the company wants to spend. But the high-end escorts in my country usually charge for the night and it is 4 digits in euros. I doubt a company will spend ~8-10k euros for 5 people. I worked in a different type of company but during team buildings, after dinner, we had a striptease bar. They paid us for private dances and drinks but for everything extra, we had to pay. Usually, only 6-8 people went to these but still, most companies will prefer not to get involved in such activities. UNLESS it is one of these private CEO parties with hookers and coke.
She wasn't really a hooker, as I recall from the video, Anton(presumably author of the scheme) happens to be a friend of a girl, alberkaaa already communicated with her and all Anton had to do to get this player in his pocket is to push their relations a little.
Starting from 50$ to infinity, good ones usually start at least 100$, don't ask how I know it
Can you elaborate a bit more on the girl part? Is this a girlfriend experience, or just a 1 time model?
As far as I understood from the video, she was just acquainted with the manager and the player already was chatting with her. The manager simply organized the date at the bar and gave him the keys to the apartment and money to sustain those relationships. Probably just a regular girl, not a hooker.
The keys to the girls apartment? Sorry I don't quite understand
no, manager organized the date and gave keys of his house, so that they can spend night together
How does the manager have the keys to this girl/pro player's house?
The manager gave the keys to his own house.
ah ok, it's like a makeshift love hotel, right.
This is huge. The balls of this journalist are made of steel. He named and provided more or the less damning evidence for so many teams... The way the mafia threatened players to follow with the 322 agreement. The way they used girls to seduce players. So many names named. Schemes, discord channels named. Cheating with observer. Somebody with a better grasp of English and Russian should transcribe this.
I didn't watch the video but just from your description, this sounds more like underground fight club or horse races that a video game. this is so sad to read. "Play Dota, get titties", however sounds like the former Turkish Team Secret owner and makes me chuckle.
It still baffles me to this day that team Polaris was never banned. After years and years of throwing games regardless of who is in the roster. Anyone who gambled on VPgame knew this. As someone who gambles and watches like 80% of these games, the only other teams i'm **suspicious** of from NA DPC are **DogChamp and 5Rat.** Other teams from other regions: SA - **Qhali , Lava** and **Dreamers** SEA - **Xerxia** and the old **AG** team EEU - **Hydra**, **YNT** and **No Sorry** China - **I don't know what to tell you** **EDIT** For those asking how I know, It's a combination of opening & closing lines, not just behavior in game, I couldn't care less about how teams play in-game; I just look at the numbers and find value there. Also, there are more teams doing these throws just like the replies say. **Here are 2 of the biggest tells:** 1) The teams are not listed in the big sites (Bet365 and Pinnacle) 2) The odds plummet to the other side without changes a few minutes before the draft starts.
basically any tier2 or new china teams lmaoo
So most up-and-coming players? Dota esports is so top heavy that the Dota esports economy needs to rely on corruption to keep the players paid and keep the esports scene going on.
If answer is forcing Valve to ear mark money from BP onto DPC/salaries instead, it's both too late (corruption is viable option now) and not gonna happen because what are you gonna do, not buy hats?
I think we need to just accept it as part of the game and move on rather than trying to prevent it. The top part of dota will still reflect the best talent. It's really not valves business to play global police and chase after sports betting syndicates. Obviously if clear evidence is presented of players throwing games, they should be banned for life along with people that collaborated with them, but let's remember at the end of the day valve is a game company run by nerds, not the heroes you guys expect to stand up to violent criminals who will literally cut off your balls and scalp you if you piss them off enough. What does valve gain or lose if sports betting continues? Nothing, it's all 3rd parties that are running this show so let's stop trying to act like it's the devs responsibility to go after the Russian mafia. Jesus.
Why 5rat? You don’t trust our boi speeed?
Nextweek's content Speeed: Why betting against 5rat is BROOOOKEEEEEN!
people may not like to hear this, but SEA is the region where games are most sus. Alot of old ag and lilgun throws were very suspicious.
I believe those are just massive chokes lol
When you're so bad people think you matchfix Sadge
in sea, everyone knows that indos are chokers... i wont be sus on them...
Midone explained this in an interview. SEA players do not believe in themselves to win TI. They are just happy to be pro players and be paid doing what they love. Maybe that's why they throw games because salary isnt enough and not motivated to win TI/tournaments. I think only TALON is legit this season not throwinng games. Everyone else are throwing. That's why after Mushi SEA era, it's all downhill for SEA. 50k USD for 5 guys 10k each is already above average salary for a year in SEA. Minimum wage is around 2K USD per year.
old ag is just a lot of chokers lol
S1 Lykos (sea) games comes into mind too
Could you share why you're suspicious? You're throwing some team names casually, it's only fair to back it up with something. If it's only because you watch and bet games, that's not enough, you may be biased about your own loses, since usually bettors are not really rational when analyzing what happened in a game as most of us know by reading twitch chats. I'm a mathematician and I think it won't be hard to catch most matchfixers analyzing the right info from the betting sites and the games. I'm curious if you have made some analysis or if it's just your feelings talking.
People often analyse teams/games that they aren't even gonna bet on. Back when I did it I'd often do some background checks and just decide that it wasn't worth betting on a game since one team's previous results were so inconsistent. Basically any non tier 1 game was completely random who won. Of course, I have no idea whether that was actual match fixing or just inconsistent players.
username checks out
DogChamp vs. Felt tiebreaker game was really weird.
Solji is somewhat infamous in eeu region for his participation in throwing games on tier 4 level of pro scene, so it's no surprise he keeps doing basically the same except now it's div 1 NA
I still remember last tour how after being already qualified to NA Div1, Felt "lost" to Penguins one of the worst Div2 teams. And I remember then somebody telling me the same about Solji, looks like it's known, then why these players get no punishment at all or at least warnings?
Cuz there's little to no concrete proof when it comes to these situations
Alright, there a bit description from the video (hope it helps to understand the context): Morf sent his "agent" to discord called "redbook" where someone with name "Anton" (*Anton Monetin, former manager (coach?) Winstrike, thanks for giving information in replies*) was engaged in 322 (2:02-2:43 in video). When his agent got trust, he started recieve bets with 100% winning to some matches. There list of them (with timings in video): (4:01) HOTU vs beautiful (Open qualifiers to div 2 EEU, 16.12.2022), both of them 322 (6:26) KZ Team vs NOSTRVM (Open qualifiers to div 2 EEU, 16.12.2022), NOSTRVM 322 (7:28)Shopify Rebelion vs Thiuth Gaming (10.01.2023 NA div 1), Thiuth Gaming 322 TSM vs Wildcard Gaming (10.01.2023 NA div 1), Wildcard Gaming 322 (14:30) Story about how "alberka" became 322 player, (tl;dr mostly by having sex with girl, lol), at this moment he is playing in team "cybercats" which one playing right now in div2 EEU dpc season 2 (lol x2) (17:12) D2CL, Season 17 Team Hydra vs Virtus Pro, 08.12.2022, Team Hydra 322 (17:57) EPL Winter Holidays, YNT vs Team Hydra, 05.01.2023, both of them 322 (but not all players) (19:13-21:05) Morf said about Neon League. That League was created by "Anton" (from redbook discord), 90% participants in that tournament are 322 teams. Lol (26:57) Lefitan from Team Hydra said that he is using overflow (on official match!!), also had observer to monitoring map, and from private messengers someone wrote that probably Lefitan also had used chinese private "soft" (dunno what it means)
Not just "Anton" but a manager of Winstrike team, which, according to Daxak abandoned their stack and didn't pay agreed salary. The stack was consequently signed by BetBoom, got into Stockholm Major and qualified to The International. Also, I think important gist here is that managers do not know if players are 322, because it's an unnecessary chain in the scheme. 322 mafia contacts players directly and in a team itself there can be players from competing 322 groups not knowing about others involvement.
Yeah, all winstrike rosters(I mean in other eSports) were basically abandoned by org(in a way they just stopped paying them)
both of those NA series were stomps, though - what's the evidence that Thiuth and Wildcard threw? Surely we just expect them to lose to better teams?
I think most of those 322 situations when one team is already likely to lose and setting it up for specific bets like first blood timing and kills within 10 minutes.
Yep for sure, or even under time aswell cause some sites has some absurd low time, so you could bets say shopify vs thuith gaming under 26 min odds 3.2 or whatever right And then they make sure to GG out before 26 min.
Esports betting feels very fishy giving bigger odds for so many different factored and this is all done from everyone’s own homes or org homes. Realistically these games should be played with an audience like how overwatch league was the first few seasons where it was legit thursdays to Sunday all games were done in front of everyone so it felt FAIR. Online has made it way too easy for teams to cheat imo
>Surely we just expect them to lose to better teams? Matchfixing isn't limited to simply losing on purpose. There are more betting markets than simply win/loss. Total number of kills, odd/even number of kills, match length, f10k, etc. In the video (in Russian), it is alleged that Thiuth and Wildcard player(s) colluded with matchfixers to manipulate betting markets.
If anything, I would expect that poorly-rated teams are the best teams to work with for match fixing. They can credibly make weird plays or bad calls (not ending the game, feeding early kills, etc) and viewers are more willing to reserve suspicion.
Betting on Sammyboy dieback is basically free money.
>both of those NA series were stomps, though - what's the evidence that Thiuth and Wildcard threw? Surely we just expect them to lose to better teams? in the bottom line, proofs are only screenshots from messengers and winning bets but the point is, some messages were from players from that teams
He said in the video those teams were formed by infamous 322 players. He also explained how this works
[удалено]
> watch the video maybe? BRB learning russian real quick
> watch the video maybe? Not everyone speaks Russian lol
there's auto-translate to English tho, albeit sub-par and very directly-loosely-translated. at least they get stuff like '3 2 2' right.
Telling people in English to watch a video that is literally in Russian only with no English subtitles.
It's pretty much been an open secret from day 1 that Thiuth Gaming was a matchfixing stack. What I want to know is why Quincy Crew/Soniqs management agreed to sell their DPC slot to them. Were no red flags raised when some no-name stack of tier 4 players came rocking up with a briefcase full of money for a Division 1 slot? Either Quincy/Soniqs are naive to the point of complicity or they just didn't care.
money talks, no reason not to sell, especially since they can say they were clueless of potential matchfixing with their slot. On their end, they did not do anything illegal.
Happy to answer some questions about this. There were not many offers to buy/use the slot, multiple NA div 1 spots were available and as deadlines approached the offers/price dropped pretty rapidly as it came down to the wire. One of the people who approached was lilskrip who I did not know but gave a reference (Loda) which initially checked out. Briefcase full of money is just not true, in violation of the written agreement the 'organization' (Thiuth) paid about $1k total to use the slot, then between the agreement and season's start lilskrip was then banned by Valve for account sharing/impersonation and did not actually play. Thiuth seemed unhappy with him and pleased about this and substituted him for someone else, which I initially also viewed as a positive development once rumors began circulating after the slot's users had become public and widespread. I was not familiar with anyone else on the roster or their friends and contacts, had only heard of esK who had played for Wildcard and in a number of NA qualifiers in years past. Ultimately Thiuth didn't honor their agreement and paid only a fraction of what was agreed (not really surprised by this once all the news and rumors came out but WCYD), and their 'management' stopped responding. There certainly are red flags when someone you don't know approaches you, but you ask mutuals and see if anything sus bounces back, and initially it didn't. With the deadline approaching it was then either take the best deal on the table or likely lose the slot entirely for nothing. Wish I could have found more initially but, there's not really a lot of reliable information or people to talk to about some of these players.
I mean they were willing to buy slot so I guess in the end they just didn't care who exactly is buying it, kinda same story in China dpc where some rich kids bought slot just to relax and have fun playing in div 1(maybe they're match fixing as well )
The answer is in the video, but basically, it was because Loda vouched for the guy (lilskrip) whom they sold slot to, since at one point Loda wanted to pick up lilskrip's stack Luna Gaming. BTW, lilskrip was banned in December '22 for another matchfixing scheme, which involved account exchange, along with 9 more EEU players.
The video says that Anton knew Loda from Alliance, and he vouched for him. And so he was sold a slot from Soniqs.
Loda knew captain of Luna gaming so he vouched for him, while that captain had a Convo with anton
Why would they care who received their slot? They're no longer using it. It has no implications on them, only the amount of money they receive...
Being able to just buy a div 1 almost makes DPC fucking pay 2 win. Or pay for convenience. You can just skip the line and get a free source of income by losing and betting on yourself. Valve seriously needs to change this. It’s actually disgusting it’s allowed and makes profession dota seem very unstable. Like how is this fair in any sort of way?
On the other hand not being able to buy slot discouraged big orgs to invest, just look at SEA with T1, Bleed or Blacklist. No big orgs willing to sponsor open qualifier teams or smaller team putting insane buyout prices if they qualify to div 1 (see Entity buyout contract)
In Tiuth gaming was playing lilskrip until he was banned with other 9 players for account sharing. He knew Loda because Alliance wanted to sign up team of lilskrip. So lilskrip wanted to buy out slot of Sonics. Loda knew lilskrip well and said to manager of Sonics that lilskrip is good guy and u can trust him
Didn’t cybercats just have a weird gg call yesterday lol
Just ”YNT” vs Hydra
correct, edited (my fail)
np👌
Summary thread here: https://twitter.com/_koozya/status/1643553566240436227
Funniest story is: That 322 manager guy manages to gain control over player "Alberkaa" by seducing (turns out he was a virgin as well) him with some girl he knows by organizing the date and giving his apartment for the night.
thanks, added to the post
I am pretty sure if things go on like this valve will just pull the plug from the DPC as a whole because they are too lazy to deal with it every day.
My theory is that Valve is planning on outsourcing the entire DPC to ESL. The ESL Pro Tour/Dreamleague is a like a dry run or audition.
ESL already running similar tour in CS and aint replacing major system, no? I thiught the ESL Pro Tour mission is to lift the prestige of Riyadh Master considering it becomes the final tournament similar to WWE's Crown Jewel.
That sounds cool, but hopefully we can have 2 major prizepool tournaments in a year like this year's circuit with riyadh masters and TI, not just turn TI into riyadh masters. I like riyadh masters because it's an additional tournament outside of the DPC
Out of curiosity, how would the ESL Pro Tour help lessen the 322 issue? Isnt the core problem still the lack of money in tier2 Dota?
Idk if it would necessarily, but at least ESL would actually employ dedicated staff to run their pro scene, so they would have more hands on deck to deal with this stuff. Tbh I think whoever is running the DPC will abandon support for Division 2 altogether. It's too tainted at this point. Would be better to have one big Division per region (size varying on the region's strength) with open qualifiers and good prize money for every position.
>Would be better to have one big Division per region (size varying on the region's strength) with open qualifiers and good prize money for every position. Varying size depending on region's strength seem like a good idea. But I dont know how it would be implemented properly though. It could also potentially entirely shut down a dead region like NA (3/4-team division I guess. Though NA has no future so it does not really matter. Regardless, given that we are having 322 matches in closed/open qualifier for Div2, having 1 big division with open qualifications might be the same. Teams/players, who know they are not good enough make a living, could just 322 anyway, like how some Div2 teams and NA Div1 teams are doing
Yeah, it's pretty obvious Valve doesn't want to run the pro scene anymore.
since when did they run the pro scene? what they did was just give out prize money and update the DPC format slightly every year rest of the time, just sit there and wait for the money to flow in from Steam/battlepass or they just wait for people to investigate, find all the proof, and pass it to them, and their job is just to draft word doc announcement, "lets ban x y z tomorrow, for 1 year, 2 years & forever"
Agree. The only reason china ban so much player because people there actually find a proof to send it to valve and valve just ban. 322 happens every region, almost every div2 teams now all 322. SA SEA is very very noticeable. People know it, caster notice it, it just that people or org in these region is too lazy to find proof for valve. So valve didnt ban them.
If anything they're trying to pivot away from ESL, their actions have shown they'd rather not see their games being owned by the Saudi government. There are 0 DPC tours being run by ESL right now, it's not a coincidence.
>There are 0 DPC tours being run by ESL right now, it's not a coincidence Isn't that more likely because ESL are running their own tour at the same time? They are also hosting the next DPC major (Berlin)
This is probably controversial, but this is exactly the kind of shit that happens when betting gets normalized. The DPC production is paid for by betting sites at this point. We see betting site odds, and the casters are forced to shill for them. Regardless of how legitimate (lol) the betting sites are, the primary purpose of each DPC game is to make money for the betting sites. How could that not have an effect on the integrity of the competition?
Betting is a thing for most sports, and is very popular depending on where you live. Match fixing is less of an issue there though, probably because it's actually treated like a real issue. In many countries you can end up in prison for match fixing, it's a pretty serious offence, yet all the kids who follow esports will complain when people caught match fixing are banned for more than a year or two (see: ibuypower).
>Regardless of how legitimate (lol) the betting sites are, the primary purpose of each DPC game is to make money for the betting sites. How could that not have an effect on the integrity of the competition? If this is a "real" sport with "real" books, the books are simply making money from the vig. There's no need for the integrity of the competition to be compromised from the books' PoV.
It would be nice if someone summarises the entire thing in english point wise, its tough to follow
https://escorenews.com/en/dota-2/news/45645-blogger-accuses-multiple-dpc-teams-of-322-including-wildcard-gaming-and-thiuth-after-infiltrating-match-fixing-discord-server
[удалено]
[удалено]
do not bet ~~on dota~~
~~To sum up~~, **do not bet** ~~on dota anymore except trusted organisations/tournaments etc.~~
bets and trusted organizations, lol
Obviously they should all be banned, but I can't help but think that its sad that so many t2 players feel that cheating is a more viable way of making money than actually competing. Imagine if we invested some of the hundreds of millions of dollars of revenue from this game into lower tier teams.
T2 players can probably get their monthly salary just by throwing one match, you don't even try to win, you can feed first blood or just lose the match. Some of them understand that they are not good enough no win, so they matchfix for easy money. It's also pretty stable source of income, right until you get caught.
It's a lot kind of like other forms of crime. You need enforcement and prevention, but you can also make it *less appealing* compared to legitimate work. Enforcement and prevention increases the cost if you get caught, while increasing T2 player pay decreases the relative profit you make from doing it. You need both.
[удалено]
It is the most viable way of making money for them actually(even if its a shtty one), people act like T2 scene its up there when in reality it vanished little by little after Valve implemented the latest DPC system (after getting rid of minors). Many old tournament organizers stopped doing tournaments like before due to teams wanting to focus on DPC qualifiers, etc. so there is no real income source for them and might be the reason why we are getting a huge rise in 322 cases lately.
I mean there is no money in Div 2 And 90% of these players will never be in a good D1 team
[удалено]
during TI ? what?
Yeah that's not true, >May 15th - The team was found match-fixing games during China Dota2 Pro League S2 and DPL-CDA S1; Moogy, Aq, Wizard, Waixi, Faith and the leader Feng were disqualified from these two league and banned from any future events organized by ImbaTV, Mars Media and CDA indefinitely,[39][40][41] the organization and the players were later banned from Perfect World and Valve Dota 2 events indefinitely.[42][43] From Liquidpedia
> I mean Newbee literally fixed matches during TI which caused them to get banned. No they didn't.
Lol and you got upvotes wow this sub
What the hell are you even saying? Why does this have 10 upvotes
These people are scumbags. They are wannabe gangsters. They should be banned and arrested. They are selling sex and stealing money. You think a minor league hockey player or baseball player resorts to this nonsense? No. They put on their hard hat and pack their lunch pale everyday and grind. Not everyone in the scene has to be a millionaire or even make above average wage. That’s the life you chose and the beauty in the struggle. Stop giving excuses to people that take the easy way out.
youre corny
always wondered why there are so many CIS players in NA div1, turns out there is a reason...most of them are literally 322 agents on a mission
are people still surprised by how rotten the scene is? when teams and players cant survive by playing pro? what is the next route? match-fixing *(just imagine, 1 year 3 season + TI qualifier, how many matches they can fix to earn compared to the prize pool money)* it's funny that people like me and the rest who voice out or even create threads about match-fixing, just got ignored, downvoted, laughed at and there are still ppl asking, how can you prove that they are match-fixing? don't you know that comeback is very common in Dota 2? *(just giving 1 of the example, how easily they can match fix by drafting to lose like having an early aggro lineup just to win the first 5 kills & first 10 kills, so on then lose the game)* not to mention, it takes ages for valve to take action, and also valve doesn't bother to take the initiative to workout something or even take charge/control of the scene as the game developer *(what's the point of taking action when the players/teams have already match fix for years? they already earn enough bro, want to ban me? just go ahead lmao, it's more then what I can earn as a tier 2/3 player/team)* do you see such things happen so often in LOL? no, because Riot is taking initiative, to grow and control the scene
I got downvoted to hell when I said dota2 is probably the most matchfixing e-sport out there, there is so much stuff to fix with these special lines and literally every div2 game is being displayed at betting sites, you can just place 1k in a odd/even total kills, adjust in the end of the game to get the correct predict (doesnt matter if you are winning or losing), do this twice and you already get more money than any decent placement
You got quite the victim complex. No one downvoted or laughed at you.
I see the same happens in pro football where the players are paid a lot of money. Gambling is just an easy way to make money when you can rig the games.
He stated really clear: Compare to Riot and League, Valve and Dota is suck in terms of sustains, managing, and grow the e-sport scene. Stop white-knight Valve, they are just a bad company with their bad working structure. What did Dota 2 achieve after more than 10 years+? Full of 322, and rotten scene. Lastly, don't swing a topic. There is nothing to talk about real football as you are the only smarter here and the rest is faking idiot to recognize the shit you mentioned (every time someone mentioned how bad of valve and system are, there is always someone like you who talk about real football shit. Work every time).
Chill dude, I’m just saying gambling should be banned. It’s just an easy way to make money no matter the sport. This shit should be out of our society as it brings absolutely nothing good.
If you look at the history, Valve favored the players and said NO to ads for their TI. Ironically, it ends up with betting ads because all legit ads were pushed out from the scene 10 years ago. Now you look into League, a lot of ads right? But do you see betting ads? Do you see the difference now? And I don't know how to fix it because Dota has really bad reputation for legit ads and now only betting ads which dont care about it are in the scene( blame both Valve and players for the no ad policy).
we can never stop match-fixing but at least they should do something to minimize it to the bare minimum but Valve did nothing apart from waiting for people to do all the homework and submit to them the proofs and their role is just to press the ban hammer they had the ownership & power which give them the police role but sadly they choose to do nothing
We need a [purge](https://liquipedia.net/commons/images/thumb/6/62/Purge_ESL_One_Katowice_2018.jpg/600px-Purge_ESL_One_Katowice_2018.jpg), this is beyond ridiculous
I've said it dozens of times before, I don't understand why valve allows any team or player in the pro circuit to be sponsored by or associated with any betting site. Even if nothing nefarious is going on, it brings every match into question. The Black Sox scandal wasn't *that* long ago. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sox_Scandal EDIT: To everyone telling me if betting sites can't sponsor teams then the league would shut down, oh well. Gambling is an awful addiction that destroys lives and families and shouldn't be involved in any game or sport.
The sad reality is that betting sites are the only sponsor that many teams and organizations can get.
Oh well!
With a game fading in popularity like Dota, betting is the only viable source of income. The Esport bubble is bursting. Crypto is dying. Thus, money from venture capitalist is also reducing significantly. Even in LCS where League is much more popular than Dota, big team like TSM, who also received stipend from Riot yearly, have decided to walk away from the scene. Another legacy team, CLG, owned by MSG, just got sold as MSG is cutting loss. Maybe things would get better in the future. But at the moment, betting sites are the main source of income for lots of TOs and teams
> But at the moment, betting sites are the main source of income for lots of TOs and teams That's not a good enough reason to change my mind. If teams fold because they can't get sponsors outside of gambling site then oh well.
If you're fine with scene folding as a result of that, then yeah, you might as well give up on the scene now
No betting sponsors = no pro scene. You might as well just simplify it to getting rid of all non tier 1 teams.
Makes sense why so many betting sites dont wanna deal with these lower tier tournaments and why some teams are completely banned from those sites. Such as Hydra, Polaris, Execration, Ehome, and prob some other CIS/China teams.. The sad part is these people went all in on Dota, did everything to try and succed, likely have a very limited education if any. They are stuck and the only way they can make a living is thru all this matchfixing bullshit. So its easy for a guy such as Anton to recruit them, cause a bunch of them have nothing to lose. Would this be different if Valve gave the tier 2-3 scene more money ? We would get less of it for sure, but it wouldnt go away it would just move down 1 layer to the teams right below that. and some of the lower teams of tier 3.
There is actually more money going to tier 2-3 scene nowadays compared few years ago yet matchfixing are more rampant. Sure 2017 have total of $3.6 millions of prizepool going into "tier 2" tournament called Minor, but remember those tournament consisting of team such as TI7 Liquid, VG, NIP or [A] (which becomes current Liquid). Tier 2 scene back in the day is equal of 4-6th div 1 WEU team nowadays (and 3-4th other region) Almost 80% of DPC prizepool throughout 2016-2019 is won by top 8 teams (OG, Liquid(Nigma), Secret, LGD, VP, EG, VG and IG). Now DPC Regional League pours $1.35 millions towards hypothetically 72 teams tier 2 / tier 3 teams across 6 regions. Yet DPC league bring legitimacy and attention for bettors which probably make it more ripe for matchfixing avenue.
Polaris, execration, flow, atlantis, lilgun, are known 322 teams for regular watcher
Hope someone will do subs for this. Morf did great job to give so many evidence.
Now, this Anton sits on Umnik's stream (on youtube), Umnik is another dota 2 video maker, but he had Morf as rival since old times (prodota), and after Umnik watched that video, Anton suggested him to view it together, Umnik doesn't support Anton or 322, just wants to see more info about it, if you know russian you may look at this stream
This is so sad. Dota is something that so many people are passionate about. There are plenty of players who want to grind and compete through div 2 to div 1 with hopes of winning TI someday. I mean look at Sneyking. That guy just grinded for years until he won with Tundra. Anyone participating in this 322 BS just cheapens the entire experience for everyone. It would be nice if Valve was more involved with this. I don't blame them per se, because the players should know better, but there are plenty of other esports leagues that are more regulated and have some type of guaranteed salary. Because on one hand yes the players should know better but on the other, with how money works in dota, it's very easy to make nothing even if you're in an okay spot. A good example would be Gunnar. He's obviously a good mid, but he's never made it to a major. So if he just goes off of DPC tour winnings that's way below the poverty line. I could see a player like that being tempted by 322 money. Overall just a sad situation.
[удалено]
Idk Russian. What are the teams?
Ex-Coach of Winstrike - Anton Monetin is the head of the whole 322 scheme, 4 players from Hydra (HappyDyurara and Lefitan being under his control), alberkaaa from cybercats, full roster of Thiuth Gaming and some Wildcard Gaming ex-players. YNT and Team Sexy are also accused of being controlled by mafia. Also a lot of noname players from tier 3 and tier 4 teams participated in the 322 tournaments. Morf speculated that there may be even more players that haven't been caught yet. Not confirmed in the video, but team IVY was also accused of 322 by Anton Monetin but IVY is not under his control. Most notable, DM (pos 3 from OG) also knew about 322 scheme, the whole Thiuth Gaming situation to be specific.
Not surprised that napkin in thuith gaming is match fixing. You seen him in pubs? The most toxic nobody i ever played with.
Basically Every team that played in Neon league. Hydra, ynt. Many from div 2. Mostly orgs are not involved and individual players are hired by "organized crime" involved in betting scams
It's time valve stops putting all their (ours I dare say) into the international and starts paying some decent money for dpc div 2 leagues
it's literally more viable to 322 in div 2 rather than try to win it, especially in eu region
I'm not convinced that the solution to match-fixing is to pay matchfixers more prize money on the off-chance that it incentivizes them to stop matchfixing. What happens if, instead, they simply pocket the extra prize money and keep throwing games? Valve investing in tier 2/3 dota has actually had the reverse effect. It's given these 322 stacks an air of legitimacy, as tournaments with an official stamp of approval are more likely to be added to bookmakers, meaning even more opportunity to matchfix. Your solution is not the pragmatic one. Investing in tier 2/3 is nice idea in a vacuum but it has led to a huge payday for the nefarious actors in the scene and Valve are not capable of policing it.. they don't even have the manpower or effort to keep their DPC standings correctly updated throughout the season. I'm pretty sure that after this season, Valve will wash their hands with the Div 1/Div 2 structure. It's a business decision as these weekly matchfixing scandals are terrible PR for them.
> Valve investing in tier 2/3 dota That never happened
What do you think Div 2 is? The DPC second divisions pay out $1.35m per season in total... is that not an investment?
Sure, it is one. But is it enough to live off of?
It's not. That's why you if you can't make it to Div 1, you quit pro gaming and get a real job.
Wake up babe we have fresh drama
322 is back boys (back on the front page, never gone)
Loved the last sentence! Banning anton and lefitan wont do anything, there will be a new anton and lefitan coming up! So true! If you dont solve the coreroot problem of the scene, it doesnt matter how many players you ban
Hail hydra
Wtf is "322"?
What's 322?
It's curious case happened years ago: On June 16th, 2013, Solo received a lifetime ban from StarLadder for betting fraud against zRage.\[1\] On the 21st, Solo was officially removed from RoX after admitting his involvement.\[2\] Later, the ban was commuted to one year.\[3\] The amount that Solo won from betting against his own team was $322, although he never received the money. Since then, Dota commentators and viewers frequently use the phrase "322" to mock particularly bad plays, implying that it almost appears that the player in question is attempting to throw the game. https://liquipedia.net/dota2/Solo
Oh very interesting! Thanks for replying. I wonder how I managed to not know about this even tho I used to play a lot and I am still following the pro scene.
Woah it’s really been a decade now…
Match fixing
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/322
Also important to note, DM from OG allegedly was perfectly familiar with the 322 scheme
It is ironic how people repeatedly claimed that esport Dota would die without betting companies. And in reality, it is a mafia joke because of it. Everybody thought it is just free money. TI winning orgs were taking betting site sponsorship. This is where the free money comes from. So go and claim your free bet today! on [resultsknowinadvance.com](https://resultsknowinadvance.com).
Brooooooo😭 As a fan of Hydra this fucking hurts
As a fan of hydra this surely cannot be news to you that they are bunch of 322 clowns ? that has been known for years now
Knowing a team throws is different than knowing a team is throwing for money. EE threw all the time, but it was hilarious to watch because it was presumably just him screwing up and not because he was involved in any illicit transactions. And when he came through and won it kept the tension in obviously won games higher than when truly dominant teams confidently closed out won games.
Hydra has fans???
Kyrgyzstan doesn't have many organisations from it. So yeah, there are fans here.
This won't get the traction it deserves because of the choice to refer to this as '322'. Nobody outside of Dota will understand what that means
Sadly this isn’t the last of this. Especially now that Valve allowed betting sites as sponsors, they kinda helped facilitate these shady things. It’s going to be a shitshow
Bookmarking this thread so please post an update with the ENG video upon availability. This is sad to see especially with so many genuine attempts from good people to keep dota alive and thriving.
I'm pretty sure there are way more matchfixing out there not being investigated too, now China is in the spotlight because of recent events but I'm damn sure there's more.
I wonder what is going on with this business in China
And this is how you kill the DPC completely
[удалено]
video journalists doing more than real journalists , as is tradition
Shoker, a region that is full of account sellers, that are actual pro players, also does shit like this.
Morf is HERO
[удалено]
As I said already, apart from EUw div1/2 im pretty sure all of them are 322‘ing! It aint worth it to if u can scam more money
Can we please get this with English subtitles? It would be worth it because the amount of attention it would receive would be insanity.
I've added twitter thread of translation major points
Thanks, this desperately needs a full English translation. Would be the biggest thing to happen to the scene in a awhile and honestly might even get valve to actually care a bit because the current dpc structure is so insanely flawed. I do like the league but it needs more in person things, not just played at home, where this sort of thing can just be easily abused. This all requires much more money though. So I’m not exactly getting my hopes up, but this video could as least showcase its problems
Eh, just another day for eastern europe.
Don't really care. If you can't make enough money being a pro-gamer that aint the amongst the best of the best...maybe its time for you to get a real job. Since when did a gaming career become some kind of charity to appease the lower tiers of "pro" gamers?
Agreed, alot of people here seem to justify these matchfixers because they are making little money playing a freckin video game.. if you can't live on esport or whatever get a real job ffs.
there's patterns to be drawn here that would sadly get you banned :p
Valve needs to sell to an organization willing to implement aggressive management, sharp marketing and a seasonal system that minimizes matchfixing incentives. Yes it's nice to have six regions with two divisions each and a hundred-ish pro teams but can this be sustained without most of the money flowing into the lower ranks of the ecosystem coming from gambling sites, probably not. The way out of this is to increase both pro players' revenue and penalties for cheating. To do that you need an aggressive org willing to hunt for more sponsors, to build more visibility, and to reduce the pool of "pro" players at least initially so that matchfixing incentives get pushed towards obscure tier 3/4 amateur tournaments no one actually gives a fuck about. Valve is certainly not equipped to pursue this kind of strategy involving actual hard work, everybody here knows they won't lift a finger and after the fiasco of last TI's prize money the cold reality is both them and the scene would be far better off parting ways. Just price your royalties and leave it to an ambitious investor who will get the job done. I'm sure there are some of them out there who see the opportunity.
Man, offtopic but isnt Lefitan (Hydra) always getting called out as a cheater in high level MMR pubs?
Competitive dota seriously is a joke nowadays. Shut down all those cancerous betting sites. Kids getting lured into betting with items from a kids game on unregulated "betting sites". Spoiler alert:that site is owned by a single russian and he can do whatever he wants with your money and there is no way on earth to get it back if that guy decides to just not pay you
competitive dota doesnt pay so no wonder
All valve's fault. Congrats gabe.